NY 150: Mob Money Mafia GAME OVER

[Damon_Gant]

Tough situation. Bunny, was your vote on me before? I didn't think it was, but my memory is slippery. Either way, I'm going to keep my vote on you, as the lurky, suspicious neighbour.

Vote: Bunnylover

Bit frustrated at the whole thing as I was about to do my complete list of reads when I came on and found the website had disappeared. If I'd have just done that, I'd have had a lot more clarity right now. However, instead, we have a semi clean-slate, although I'll say I'm starting off with these initial reads that I remember from before.

Nacho town, mastin probably town, Pine probably town. Oversoul, Sly and Lowell scummy (as well as Bunny). Everyone else can consider themselves to have a complete clean start as far as I'm concerned.

[Damon_Gant]

My opinion here with regards to the wagon on me is that the town are voting me because they don't like that I had a long argument with the most towny player in the game. Yes, I disagree with Nacho about nearly everything, but that doesn't mean that if he's town, I'm scum.

Vote: Damon

Didn't like the implications in your posts before the crash. This was my strongest scumread as well. I voted Bunny for her quick town call on Pine in the QT (pre-game). My judgement tells me to go with what I know and see/saw. Obviously no new scumtells are going to pop up now but your attitude drew my attention, Damon.

The implication of my posts was that bunny was scum. I'm sorry if you don't like this but it's simply what I believed and believe. The only other point of my attitude that I know was unpopular was me labelling the arguments against me as ridiculous. That's because a hell of a lot of them were, and I'm not going to sugar coat it. However, I've recognised since then that a lot of people were probably getting influenced by Nacho, who is definitely a persuasive player.

[Damon_Gant]

I strongly disagree with chkflip

[Damon_Gant]

I was playing catch up around the time of the crash. I don't remember anything past page 12 or 13. So, no, but thanks for calling us town.

Yes, I did mean to say that there was undoubtedly scum on my wagon as well, but I forgot. From a town point of view, there's really no need to gently hint like that's some sort of 'scumslip' without actually saying it. Please, if you think it's a scumslip, just outright say it rather than beat around the bush. That sort of thing is only helpful to scum. The thing is, I'm not stupid enough to think that everyone suspicious of me is scum, hence I am trying to see why people would vote me from a town mindset. I completely understand why scum would vote for me, that is rather obvious to me.

Right, well you're voting me based off a case that I cannot defend at all then, being as the only justification you have given was "not liking the implications of [my] posts", a completely unanswerable justification that doesn't really explain your vote at all. It's damn near close enough to a random vote quite frankly, and I hope you move your vote to a more reasonable location in the coming days.

[Damon_Gant]

That's what I'm talking about.. this cheeky ass attitude.

I can't respond to this without being guilty of the same attitude. I'm sorry, the reason I have "this cheeky ass attitude" is because I'm incredulous at the support on my wagon. Personally I think that's not scummy in the slightest.

[Damon_Gant]

This is a very difficult phase of the game. It's unprecedented really, as it's non-random, and yet it feels like we have no information because we're all just relying on our memories. However, what's making it even more difficult is that we have 10 people not voting. People need to start committing and contributing because otherwise we run a risk as a town of having nothing to talk about. I particularly want to hear from Lowell who has so far said precisely nothing and is doing a great job of holding steady under the radar, as he has been all game.

[Damon_Gant]

BB, why are you asking?

I'm trying to understand the intent behind the votes, as yours seemed to be the only explained one. The rest of them are just sheep for all I know.

They pretty much are, bar Nacho, who did provide extensive reasoning in the past topic (all of which I disagreed with). Bunnylover, no explanation at all, vote wasn't even on me previously, and no explanation given with vote. Mastin, huge nonsense. chk, claims I'm "trying too hard". And that's it. To me, there's clearly at least one scum in that lot, and probably two.

[Damon_Gant]

This game is a disaster. This situation is ridiculous. We have 5 days, and we really have not moved forward from when this game restarted. I sincerely apologise for having to do this, but I see no way to change this game right now in the town's favour other than claiming. I'm the cop.

[Damon_Gant]

Unvote

Vote: Lowell

Supporters?

Me. Lowell is second on my scumlist, having played earlier in the game by simply showing his face every now and then, changing votes with the flow with very little reason, pretty much on a whim, and seeming to think that by admitting that that was what he was doing that somehow made him look more town. It didn't and doesn't wash with me, and with nothing doing on bunnylover, this is definitely my choice for lynch of the day.

Unvote. Vote: Lowell

[Damon_Gant]

@DG: did you crumb cop? I believe your claim, but a crumb would be an added bonus.

No, I didn't. Not in this topic, nor the old one. Slightly naive, I didn't really think to do it, and I was hoping that when I claimed I was going to be able to claim on my own terms. Obviously it didn't work out like that.

Sly's vote on me is irritating. There is absolutely no reason to not explain, and yet he doesn't. Either you're counter-claiming me (in which case bring it on because you're a liar) or you simply don't believe my claim because you don't find it convincing. Just tell me which it is. The ambiguity in the post simply confuses the situation for us.

[Damon_Gant]

Sorry for the double post

VOTE: Pizza

Comparing Lowell and Pizza's dreadful ISOs, I believe Pizza's is more indicative of scum, although not by a ton.

Is there any specific reason people are choosing a Lowell vote over a Pizza vote?

The last topic. I know you didn't read it, but in it, Lowell was guilty of (as I said earlier) "simply showing his face every now and then, changing votes with the flow with very little reason, pretty much on a whim, and seeming to think that by admitting that that was what he was doing that somehow made him look more town". Now of course, it's hard because you can't exactly take my word that Lowell did what I said he did, especially as a reasonable amount of that is subjective, so I understand why you're not voting for Lowell, but at least see why we are.

[Damon_Gant]

Sly's vote on me is irritating.

What is really irritating is when a cop's role is rendered useless because someone 5 votes from being lynched on Day 1 wants to claim because they can't "see no way to change this game right now in the town's favour other than claiming". There is no protown reason to basically take the cop role out of the game on D1 unpressured. You're either scum that's trying to pull some BS, or you are a lame duck cop that should be lynched for screwing the town out of a cop.

It was completely obvious at the point I claimed that I was going to be the subject of the lynch. Someone would have practically have had to have claimed scum to change it. There were the 5 votes on me, but also a whole bunch of other people who had me on the scum side of their reads. Based on the fact that I thought there was a 100% chance of me having to claim to avoid the lynch at some point, I decided to do it as early as possible to give us time to make a reasoned lynch, rather than a chaotic and panic one.

Also, lynching the cop for (what you perceive to be) bad play is stupid, and the fact you say it like it's a good idea is unbelievable to me. By your logic, I would want to lynch you for just suggesting that, but I don't vote people for bad play. I vote people who I think are scum.

[Damon_Gant]

No, I didn't. Not in this topic, nor the old one. Slightly naive, I didn't really think to do it, and I was hoping that when I claimed I was going to be able to claim on my own terms. Obviously it didn't work out like that.

The reason he wanted it to be on his own terms is this (I know, because I've gone through the

exact

same thing) - He's scum. He's planned to eventually fakeclaim at some point in the game. BAM! Site crashes. Nothing's going on. Well, the best thing to do is claim, to help the town.

*Doing this [fakeclaiming earlier than expected] makes the fakeclaim that much harder to pull off, therefore making that person wish it'd been on his/her own terms.*

Yet another reason I do not buy his claim.

Or maybe I was saying that I didn't want to claim at all today, because I'm imminently going to get roleblocked/killed? Is that not a more logical interpretation of my words? I know it doesn't fit with the picture you're trying to paint, but still.

I of course think the lynch on me would be silly, even if you think there is some strategic element that makes it ok even if I'm really the cop - Nacho got this one right. Claiming cop as scum at the moment I did would be foolish to the extreme - no reason to do that at all, and it would have put me at the liability of counter-claims. And if I'm scum, I'm not surviving to the endgame by any stretch. Thing is, I'm not, and so what will happen is I'm killed/roleblocked and nothing useful comes out of me. That's the penalty that I accepted when I claimed.

I'll defend my play strategically until the grave. Notice that we're able to have a civilised conversation at our own pace about this now and not make any rash decisions. Also notice how the game has seriously livened up since my claim - it was pretty much dead beforehand. I'm not saying that it was the only play in that situation, but I felt as I was on near everyone's scumlist that it was inevitable that eventually everyone - even the people who preferred other lynches - would compromise on me. And if that was going to happen, then what I did has been beneficial to the town. But this is all an aside really. Whether it was a good play or not is not really the question. For all of you, the question is was it a town or a scum play, and I say considering that there was no pressure on me to claim at that moment, the answer is clearly town.

[Damon_Gant]

Where did a Lowell lynch come from? His lack of doing anything?

I would support that seeing as how I don't like the fact that both supposed cops didn't crumb, which is pretty retarded on their part and it will at least force the scum to do something tonight.

There's another cop? Am I not paying enough attention? I apologise for not crumbing, that was definitely a strategic error. Last time I was power role (tracker) I didn't crumb (in a meta that unfortunately no longer exists because of the big data loss) and all worked out well. Like I said, it was naive of me.

[Damon_Gant]

EBWOP: Meant to also say that, at least my Lowell vote, came from his riding the waves, openly anti-town attitude that he displayed in the old thread.

[Damon_Gant]

I was assuming Sly's vote on you and lack of discussion to be a counterclaim, but I haven't really given much of a read because I can't imagine why people would not crumb.

VOTE: Lowell

I don't really see the reason, but it is a deadline lynch. :/

Sly has explicitly said that he isn't cop, so yeah. And as frustrating as it is, the reason for lynching Lowell is not in thread, so if you don't remember his behaviour from the last thread then you're a bit stuck on this one.

[Damon_Gant]

EBWOP again: the reason for lynching Lowell is not in THIS thread. Maybe I should try reading my posts before posting in future.

[Damon_Gant]

Sly has explicitly said that he isn't cop, so yeah.

I was asked if I was counterclaiming you, I said no.
I was asked if I crumbed cop, I said no.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Apologies, my mind had taken your counterclaim to mean you weren't cop, but that is a lazy way of thinking about it. You're not cop though, so I don't see why you feel the need to keep that option open.