NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Junpei]

/confirm

v/la 4/13-15

[Junpei]

Mastin, stop being so reflective please. A good gentlemen keeps his thoughts in his head and his learning applied. There is no medium, good sir.

[Junpei]

Holy shit, has the game even started? And most of this is useless, and we already have insults!

Kublai (may I call you that?) I just want Mastin to be more focused so that he's more effective if town and doesn't spam the thread like some people already have.

[Junpei]

God dammit Mastin, how many games are you in? This is a ton of reading... how about you just tell me what town tell you're talking about.

Mastin I can already tell that your massive walls could EASILY be trimmed down a ton. You are not following ANY of your advice you make threads on; it's great that you KNOW what to do, but you are completely failing to APPLY that knowledge. Are you scum intentionally swamping the game?

This game should never have started in confirmation phase, I am going to have trouble catching up...

[Junpei]

Wow Mastin, the edited version is better, but the fail in the earlier version is so much that I think it could be faked.

[Junpei]

You guys post a lot, this better be worth reading.

[Junpei]

I need more posts from rack and firestarter.

But not from me? Why those 2?

[Junpei]

jun, why are you being so quiet this game?

Because I have so much going on in my life and I'm in too many games. Also this isn't exactly a playerlist known for understanding succinct and graceful ways to get their points across. I just need to find time to do so.

pedit: Seriously?

[Junpei]

Uh I am not close to being caught up at all.

HezLucky, you should meta me or something because I'm conscious about my meta (yeah, meta-thoughts in regards to meta-meta); I don't blame you for the scumread on me though, and I don't expect you to meta me but I felt I should respond to what you wrote since I just read your post.

[Junpei]

in 100 boxes junpei replaced in, never caught up and was town. It's def not a scumtell, it's null at worst. He's just lazy.

No, some games just move too fast. You think I was always caught up in Red Dead Redemption?

[Junpei]

^^ good post dv

This post does not add validity to DV's arguments, thus I must assume it is blatant buddying.

[Junpei]

^^ good post dv

This post does not add validity to DV's arguments, thus I must assume it is blatant buddying.

It is. Your problem?

That it is a scum tell? I'm also pointing out the flaw in your logic; but I don't know if you noticed.

[Junpei]

I'm also pointing out the flaw in your logic; but I don't know if you noticed.

I don't really care to be honest.

Then don't quote me and engage me in conversation? Feel free to push fundamentally flawed arguments, I'm just letting everyone else know what I think. Not sure why you even bothered to respond to me if this is your answer.

[Junpei]

Hey Jun, how close are we from getting some reads from you?

I like the sound of your voice; I'll do an ISO of you and post a read later.

I see you have a small ISO though, so I will have to do other people as well I suppose. But you can put down a scum read on redFF now, for whatever it's worth.

vote redFF

as my strongest scum read so far.

[Junpei]

Librarian (may I call you that?), why are you no longer worried about scoobys' scumminess?

Why is rack scum?

I guess I just don't see that passion in your posts of a scumhunter (you know what I'm talking about).

[Junpei]

Re: First content post, It was only page four, though fair enough; while I see reason behind each question, I suppose you might not.

Re: 227, while I think your specific dramatization is inaccurate to what I see in my head, I agree that that post is suspicious and could indicate scum-hydra tricks.

Re: Vote in 559, so you would expect scum to not react to pressure?

[Junpei]

Ugh crap, I forgot: Do you think your posts have the passion of a scumhunter?

[Junpei]

It's more like I expect townie to.

Well I'd say that it's important to have a tell which a) Shows lack of town motivation and b) shows presence of scum motivation.

Do you think that this sequence:

max's posts are meh. I mean, extraordinarily meh. I like the idea of lynching this guy.

During a summation of reads, notes his discontent with Maxous

VOTE: Maxous to draw sufficient amount to the guy.

Votes Maxous to put more pressure on him

My max vote makes perfect sense. Look at his damned posts. They are nothing pretending to be something. And he's been ignored despite this. Why not pick him out?

Defends his Maxous vote, all of this coming within 5 posts of each other.

Shows more or less scumhunting passion than:

Holy fuck. I want Rack to die a painful death immediately. (their first content post is easily the scummiest thing in thread)

I also would like scooby to die. (confirm without content? :/)

Expresses big desire to lynch Rack

Thirdly, I want Rack dead today anyway.

Reiterates desire to lynch Rack

VOTE: rack

Votes Rack once able to

This post, and all posts up until now, are me, Head A.

Head B is supposed to be coming along soon to extract us from the shitstorm I've managed to cause.

And no, we aren't revealing our heads, so get over it.

Head A. I want reads now.

Asks Rack for reads.

The only real difference here is that you act more aggressive. Do you think that aggressiveness then is an indicator of towniness? Do you think that aggressiveness then is not a personality trait but rather a token of alignment?

I will say the following: Psyche's first two posts seem contrived, and your aggressiveness seems out of place.

[Junpei]

Mastin, stop being such a drama queen; It's suspicious that you are playing a massive noob card while simultaneously backing away from all of your previous reads (and thus, content).

[Junpei]

V2V, it meta-self-meta-defense; there's a difference.

Also I think redFF is scum for more than that; his diction and purpose on that page seems not town motivated.

[Junpei]

LLD: My contentless posts are from not being active at all; if you want to attack me for them so be it. I just decided that I should start by looking at the very recent activity and going from there, soothing into the game. RedFF's bad logic caught my eye, so I tried to cleverly show him his error, only he didn't understand my implicit critique. They were necessary because they dismantled DV's attack on the new replace in. It would have only taken one post but redFF didn't understand what I said.

I voted RedFF at the very beginning of the conversation with Librarian, in fact I did so before the conversation even really began. Go look at every post in this game, many of them are not carrying lots of reasoning if at all, and I soon after explained it. If you think I voted redFF and then came up with reasoning as to why after the fact, then you need to show why it is beneficial for scum to vote redFF THEN and not later, after reasoning is construed.

My questions to Librarian are useful because it helps me get a better of idea of his thought process and if it came from town or scum. My question earlier to Tammy is so that I can understand and talk to her better, because she posts long walls, I needed to know what would be the best way to synthesize responses to them if need be.

Hopefully that clears things up for you. If not, then oh well.

[Junpei]

Junpei:

Why didn't you realise that it is not the logic of my attack that's important, but the response I get to it?

I can't always be sure of your intention.

[Junpei]

I read his ISO but scanned over some stuff on accident; it happens. And it did not go no where (it being that particular line of questioning), I have collected a couple of tells, which I noted in my post. If I had nitpicked through his ISO, then you'd think that there'd be more scattered nitpicking rather than a focused line of questioning, huh?

[Junpei]

Kublai Khan, the "passion" argument was throwback to a post made by Librarian. He called Psyche suspicious for not using scumhunting passion, and I wanted to deconstruct that thought process.

...What bothers me the most here is how passionless these posts are. This is not posting of someone who actually wants their read lynched.

Also I'm going to do more reads.

[Junpei]

This suggests again that your psyche read justification is post hoc. You're not explaining why you have your opinion, but instead searching out new reasons to justify it.

Elaborate?

[Junpei]

Psyche: There's one more thing I don't understand and it's quite complicated.

You say Khan demonstrated awareness of post X at instance Y, and that at Y did not express concern. First, I can't seem to find this.
Khan seems to be following a very simple formula; that is an overview read followed by a bullet point case. The case is supported by observations that Khan makes as he reads and impressions he receives, requiring him to go back and look for posts he didn't initially include.
However, more to your point, Khan was present during the posts he cites as damning. What I ask you is that do you assert that any read based on things found on a reread which were not found and noted at instance Y is invalid? That is, do you assert that scumhunting town should notice all relevant posts and tells the first time through?

[Junpei]

Yeah don't lynch yet please.

Mastin if you post that mega-wall, that will be so incredibly anti-town that I will have to assume that you are scum trying to muddle the thread. If you are a mafia player who has even a minuscule of talent, you can post more succinctly; I think you aren't scumhunting.

[Junpei]

IV) The following is a list of outlawed shenanigans:

Using invisible text, codes, cryptography, etc.
Editing your posts (if you have the power to do so)
Insulting other players
Quoting any QTs you may have access to (paraphrasing is acceptable)

Breaking hydra-status if you are a hydra

Posting in-thread after you have died- one BAH allowed

Yo Pine, this is what Rack said he wanted clarification on.

vote rack

That post was awful, and the reads did not have to wait for mod clarification; only the head reveal which wasn't necessary at all did. There's probably some meta thing which is supposed to now make the slot look town which is why he revealed his name.

[Junpei]

Key note: Mastin isn't scumhunting and has not made his post because he is finding it difficult to manufacture reads.

[Junpei]

For the record: Mastin is a solid scum read for me.

[Junpei]

Mastin, I wanted rack to be lynched. When I voted I voted with the anticipation of him being hammered soon enough. I think you are scum as well, but I think rack is scum thus I wam okay with this lynch.

The fact that Mastin can spam information with little connection but not post reads (at least the ones he has done so far?) is further evidence he is scum.

[Junpei]

What!? We are mad at RedFF for THAT?

THAT?

GreyICE you say so much shit that that word should be nothing to you; same to LLD but on a lesser level. Stop getting all "eww gays are equal how dare you derogatory term me" and realize all the shit you say and how fucking offensive it is. You actually get scumpoints for faking sympathy which I refuse to believe you have in this situation.

For the record, I could give two shits that redFF said that. Either get pissy at every swear word or don't get mad at all.

[Junpei]

ARE. YOU. STUPID?

Mod force replace this slot please, thanks; I don't like how she said stupid as if to insult Pine. My cousins are all extremely "stupid" in the technical sense (they have a mental disorder which we can't discern, but they are aware of everything around them yet make inept decisions) and I don't have to take this shit.

[Junpei]

Junpei, if you can't tell the difference between a homophobic slur and an insult, you have a lot of growing up to do.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that you're an ignorant and sheltered jerk who thinks that stupidity isn't a serious issue in society and mental disorders are very concerning. I try hard enough to make life normal for my cousins and help them make friends. It's people like you who throw all my work in the trash when you throw out words like the one you used.

GreyICE, LLD, you're both immature and pathetic. I care about gay people, but I also care about mentally ill people... apparently you two don't.

LLD, I think that GreyICE is, in as personal a fashion as any word could possibly imply, GreyICE. I love gay people, my third best friend is gay, he's awesome. GreyICE is GreyICE, as in personally, not associating with anyone else.

[Junpei]

Whatever, I think gay people are cool as anyone else and I still think GreyICE is GreyICE. Not sure about LLD, she is prejudice against mentally ill people.. but she seems decent enough to learn how to change her ways.

I don't think you understand, LLD. Stupid means more than "not as smart as I"; it means "worthless, much like people with mental disorders who can't control their lower intellect". The implicit meaning of the word is HIGHLY insulting and I demand an apology or an admission of guilt, like RedFF initially gave.

pedit: Pretty much yeah scooby, I'm christian too and I feel like I need to pray and then ask LLD to do the same lest she go to hell, but that's insulting my faith.

[Junpei]

OH RIGHT
FUCKING NEVER
BECAUSE IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE

Wow, fuck off if you're going to say that blue eyed people are superior. Good bye, Day 2 will be much more calm and classy without you and your anger streaks.

[Junpei]

vote Nero Cain

Put everything on hold: He scumslipped.

[Junpei]

If so, can you try paraphrasing their conversation, since with both dead, it'd be kinda hard for either of them to do so for us?

Don't do this unless someone has a good reason to do so. Mastin why aren't you voting Nero Cain?

Nero, the scumslip has already been pointed out: You made that post which analyzes a lynch on town (which takes into account the night kill!) and has a vote in it before day even broke.

[Junpei]

To confirm shotty's a universal backup

Oh, that's fine.

Drmyshotgun confirm what you can post with Peregrine and give us as much as is okay.

[Junpei]

So...I had a scum read on LLD. When day broke I voted my scum read. I fail to see how that's a scumslip but w/e.

Strawman.

[Junpei]

OH HAI MINI!!!

You're always there to defend LLD, huh? She your scumbuddy? Wouldn't suprise me.

I wrote that at the end of the day phase but when I got home the thread was locked. You are correct that I would have voted LLD regardless of night kills (unless there was a scum) and I really don't understand why it matters who got flipped. How would two town flips change my scum reads?

nice chainsaw.

Okay... people won't lynch the scumslip, how about the reaction to the scumslip being pointed out?

He aggressively attacks Mini-Librarian for one. Then he says he

1) Wrote the post at the end of Day 1

2)Would have voted LLD regardless of night kills

Issue being of course that he first references the posts' logic in regards to pre-night and then post-night. Why was Nero voting LLD at the end of day 1? This reaction looks fake and looks to try to scare off his attacker.

Also, look at his response to Librarians' 1048 for a LLD case: it's just another aggressive attack; he has no real case on LLD, he is just voting to vote someone it seems.

[Junpei]

I don't understand why you or Hez or Mini feel like I should have dropped my LLD scum read overnight.

I don't think that's what they're saying at all.

Yeah, he knows that too. Nero isn't that oblivious.

[Junpei]

Mod:

Premise: There is a universal backup
Premise: There are two masons

Assuming the above premises, should the two masons die (and be the first deaths), would Universal Backup become a mason?

This is a question of how a possible role works, as the wiki is unclear to me.

[Junpei]

Spoiler: how to do a spoiler

Do ["spoiler=how to do a spoiler"] (without the quotation marks)["/spoiler"]

Or quote my post and copy it.

Also that QT recap means nothing at all and could easily have been faked. Interesting that they just posted reads and didn't really discuss anything though..

[Junpei]

Well, they did have discussion. The QT was basically a discussion and I just summarized the parts for you guys. Interesting that you see my post as possible "fake", Junpei. Why would I be faking things like this?
Does that mean you don't believe my status?

Well you claimed Universal Backup turned mason, so you have no choice but to fake the QT.

You would have claimed Universal Backup turned mason because you claimed Universal backup and a mason died.

You would have claimed Universal Backup because scum don't kill Universal Backups right off the bat and you could know it is multiscum or just feared SK.

Code_X: Those reads aren't great (as in they are very minimalistic) but I understand why that is so. I guess I will ask what you think of the "nero scumslip".

[Junpei]

I was a pretty universal townread day 1 too so please get a case together instead of just "omg redFF is really scummy everyone thinks so".

Being everyones' town read (which you certainly were not) in a large game day 1 means pretty much nothing on its own.

[Junpei]

Last 24 hours:

Junpei: THE VI IS NOT CLEAR [Benmage: he is. Benmage still not contributing much but he's right here]
Junpei: REDFF YOU WEREN'T A UNIVERSAL TOWN READ. [He wasn't, it's true, but that's not the poitn - Junpei is basically playing the I'M GOING TO DISCREDIT AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE card. Why? Doesn't help that Junpei was basically useless Day One. Is this your way of making it seem like you are contributing?]

Unvote, Vote: Junpei

Well that's only two things that I've done since the day has started, but as long as you're cherrypicking...

I did not say "THE VI IS NOT CLEAR", I just passively showed suspicion of a VI who someone had said was clear; though I never directly addressed the notion that drmyshotgun was clear.

In light of this, I don't think I need to address the second statement as the only issue you have with it is that in conjunction with the first statement it looks to you like mudslinging. I assure you it is not; this is all I will say on this because as the game goes on you'll see I'm town through my body of work.

[Junpei]

I did not say "THE VI IS NOT CLEAR", I just passively showed suspicion of a VI who someone had said was clear; though I never directly addressed the notion that drmyshotgun was clear.

You did.

Why do you feel the need to lie to me?

No... I stated suspicion of drmyshotgun here. However no where did I address any statements made by people saying that drmyshotgun was clear, as I said.

[Junpei]

IIOA. Its either you believe he's clear or not. Showing suspicion without taking a stance is scummy as hell. At this moment do you feel we should be lynching him or not?

No, I don't. Just like you, I don't think all my scumreads should be amassing votes right now. Hell, you crossed me off on your list of the days' suspects in your opening post, Nero. I think you are who we should lynch, not drmyshotgun. I think the post I linked stated an implicit stance on drmyshotguns' alignment by the way:

Also that QT recap means nothing at all and could easily have been faked. Interesting that they just posted reads and didn't really discuss anything though..

I show doubt of drmyshotguns' recap. I go into more detail here about how I think drmyshotgun could be mafia. This is just how I go about my business.

[Junpei]

Perhaps I am too passive HezLucky, however I pride myself on calm calculated action. The outburst at the end of day 1 is an exception for me.

[Junpei]

Junpei's lack on committal to any real stance is scummy.

Huh? I think drmyshotgun is scummy. I do not think drmyshotgun is a good lynch today; there are far better options (like Nero). Those are my stances.

[Junpei]

@Mod: Mason is a Power-Role. Right?

Why are you asking this?

[Junpei]

you asked the same thing....

Yes, I asked if drmyshotguns' role could have possibly worked the way he described. Why on earth would he ask if his role could possibly work the way he says it did? If he is saying that he is back-up turned mason, then mason must be a powerrole from his perspective. His asking of that question (which I've already asked as you said!) is in direct conflict with his words that he is back-up turned mason.

[Junpei]

Mastin, where is that massive wall? You never wrote anything and you are threatening us with walls of text as excuses for not posting content.

I no longer mind walls; lets see your KK case, I will accept a massive wall.

[Junpei]

Yeah you have nothing, Mastin; this is quite ridiculous. 1132 says a lot of nothing and really no evidence of scumhunting. 1133 is just excusing doing nothing while saying a lot of words. You say you wrote things in a QT. The wall did not get deleted inside the QT, post what you've written so far.

[Junpei]

Librarian has some good posts about Rack. Then again, Rack is a incredibly easy target and anyone can make the blanket statement about Rack's questions. They're terrible. Follow this with Rack not substatiating his claim about me, and he's looking really bad.

This isn't to say that I think Librarian is scummy for liking Rack as scum

, I just don't think he's incredibly town for it. And I don't think any conjectures can be made about Scooby's confirm post. It's literally completely null until Scooby posts some content. So, yeah Librarian is town but not as town as everyone seems to think. Probably a slight town lean, just for sincerity in posts.

Nero: The bold is for you; I don't like your LLD case by the way.

Mastin those are barely walls, and nothing to be afraid of. That's really sad that you played it up, I Think you're scum.

[Junpei]

I don't really care if you or anyone likes my case.

Then why'd you post it?

[Junpei]

How you know this.

Experience, combined with math. I did the numbers; I have over 70 on-site non-marathon games (I'm old. ), and over 20 of them are Large Normals.

Math--6/24 = 25%, ideal scum balance, whereas 5/24 = 21% (rounded)--theoretically possible, yes, but that's where the "experience" part comes in; it would be extremely rare to see it on such a low side of the spectrum. 5+SK, maybe, but again, if there are two anti-town kills, they reek of being in the style of two scumteams rather than single scumteam and single player.

For all my faults as a player, I do know my numbers.

25% is ideal with 1 scum faction mostly; you are arguing for two scumteams. Try again.

[Junpei]

How you know this.

Experience, combined with math. I did the numbers; I have over 70 on-site non-marathon games (I'm old. ), and over 20 of them are Large Normals.

Math--6/24 = 25%, ideal scum balance, whereas 5/24 = 21% (rounded)--theoretically possible, yes, but that's where the "experience" part comes in; it would be extremely rare to see it on such a low side of the spectrum. 5+SK, maybe, but again, if there are two anti-town kills, they reek of being in the style of two scumteams rather than single scumteam and single player.

For all my faults as a player, I do know my numbers.

25% is ideal with 1 scum faction mostly; you are arguing for two scumteams. Try again.

How do you know its two scumteams and not scum + sk?

What? I'm saying that Mastin is saying there are two scum teams; I don't know if there are two or one or an SK; but Mastin is saying 2 scum teams, which is inconsistent with his 6 scum statement. I think there is one scumteam and Mastin is part of it.

I'll vote Mastin if there is support, Nero is great too though.

[Junpei]

By the way, Vi has told me that 33% scum is common/ideal with multiple scum teams. I doubt this is an uncommon stance

[Junpei]

Mod, votecount?

I'm not interested in a Pine wagon; good redFF case by the way.

[Junpei]

Do you really think that Ben, GI and LLD are all town?

That's a fundamentally terrible question which doesn't need to be answered.

[Junpei]

Nero, the idea is that you didn't care what the flips were; you made your first post of Day 2 before any flips had happened. LLD could have died.. right? Scum could have died.. right? It seems like you planned your attack in your scum QT night 1.

[Junpei]

So really the only reason I think she's town is because she got attacked by you for ridiculous reasons.

I actually think that if Nero flips scum, LLD becomes much more suspect. I mean, it looks like Nero knew that LLD would be alive to me.

[Junpei]

Psyche: Opinion on Macros? I see absolutely nothing on him in your ISO.

And now

Junpei

needs to answer this as well, since he has the exact same thing.

You first.

[Junpei]

So really the only reason I think she's town is because she got attacked by you for ridiculous reasons.

I actually think that if Nero flips scum, LLD becomes much more suspect. I mean, it looks like Nero knew that LLD would be alive to me.

Stating that someone is town or scum via unflipped player attack is ridiculous.

ISO me, I don't have active suspicion of LLD, only you. The reason for this and my quoted statement is exactly as you say: associative tells on unflipped players are ridiculous.

[Junpei]

f you think that then what do you think of TML who said he thinks LLD is town b/c an unflipped Nero attacked her?

I think it's bad logic, just like I think a lot of peoples' points in this game are bad logic. Not sure if it's scummy or not yet though.

Mastin, give me an indepth account of Maxous, no one liners.

[Junpei]

Mastin, give me an indepth account of Maxous, no one liners.

I mean macros

[Junpei]

NEED ANOTHER LOOK: (But tenatively town)
9. Macros

Oh yeah, Mastin you have a pretty legitimate read on Macros here. "need another look": that's a commitment.

[Junpei]

Mastin, I have 3 massive walls just on Macro in MY QT, my conclusion is one which would be anti-town to announce now.

Now sit down and go back to pretending to scumhunt

Kublai, Mastins' comments on Macro inthread are pretty poor as of late; I think he is not scumhunting as I've already said.

[Junpei]

Mastin, I do know you: You are the guy whose words hold little weight in this game and whose actions are mostly trivial. Go ahead, vote me, I don't really care. If you want to post a Macros read then cool, but whatever.

I'm heading out for a bit, see you later.

[Junpei]

Eh, the last few pages are pretty much all town squabbling with town and it's annoying.

Pine:

What led you to change your mind?

Everyone:

Does Mastin do this kind of thing as scum?

I think that people do this as scum, because it works as a smokescreen to hide the inability to fake scumhunt.

Vote Mastin

I think we can get support for this scums' death.

[Junpei]

I could see him trying to tackle a big target like me.

...Hate to break it to you... but you aren't a big target; your scummy means really nothing to any of us. Rest of your case seems more like you got anti-tunnel-vision. He attacked you and you felt that therefore he must be scum and formed those opinions.

[Junpei]

I would take myself, Kublai Khan, and Librarian before I pick you. And this is coming from someone who has seen you in multiple games the past year. You don't show someone with a lot of skill like you claim you have. The biggest target in this game? Do you mean who has the most skill in this game or who is the hardest person to bring down or who is playing the best this game?

[Junpei]

Oh, well I'm the best player in this game without a doubt. I'm also the hardest to bring down, and I'm also not the best this game. I have an open offer where if someone wants tips on their play after a game I'll always give it to them. You have to come to me though.

As for your games, I can't say all of them, but Bastardmind of Sin (it was MoS' bastermod game) I read a bit of.

[Junpei]

I don't have enough games because there are ongoing games as well I'm tabbing.

And MoS nominating you for a scummy isn't impressive to me, I don't see why I should hold his opinion high at all.

Now what's your read on Mastin and why.

[Junpei]

Yeah, Mastin needs to die. He's a rabid dog who thinks he's intelligent and bad. You could say "Junpei ignores X unless directly addressed by X" probably replacing X with a lot of people, but not Khan.

This post was not in response to one of Khans' inquiries, but something that Psyche said.

pedit: Hm, 2 Hecks and 1 In Fact. Is that contrived or regular Mastin flow? I'll read some of his walling to see.

[Junpei]

Junpei-as-town would be aware of my meta

Nope, I don't know your meta. All I know about you is that everyone thinks you are obnoxious, and that for a short period of time I defended attacks against you before realizing that you are very self-centered.

[Junpei]

Junpei-as-scum needs to know where I stand

So does Junpei-town. Also I value reasons, not reads; thanks.

[Junpei]

So yeah, that's your whole case: I don't know about your QT habits nor do I care; I think the QT doesn't exist for scumhunting and that you had no read on Macro which was built on any real reasoning, so I simply insisted you tell me your read. My reason?

Because you want to hear other peoples' read on Macros BEFORE you take a stance, because Macros is your scumbuddy and you needs to tread carefully with regards to whether or not to bus.

But in all seriousness, I actually think that if you flip scum (and you will) that Macros becomes more town from this, because the massive hypocrisy by you is just too obvious.

[Junpei]

Also I value reasons, not reads; thanks.

Then there would be zero harm in giving away the reads, now, would there, if they hold no value to you, eh?

Yeah. Scumclaim.

Nope; I generally don't give reads out without reasoning, I think it is pointless because I value reasoning, not reads. You gave a read, which is nothing of value to me. I don't do pointless things if I can help it.

Also wow you have a huge ego mastin and need to die; you are stretching way too much.

[Junpei]

Junpei:

If you think mastin is scum, why are you also expressing dislike for him based on his posting here?

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean, you'll have to reiterate your question.

[Junpei]

If he is scum, he is scum. But you seem genuinely annoyed at his presence.

Oh. The question is asking if my emotions and prejudices are blinding me.

No, don't worry, I have a grind with Mastin and express this, however when I actually analyze things I have the presence of mind to turn off the blinders if necessary.

[Junpei]

You make comments about Mastin thinking he's intelligent and having a big ego. Do you feel his scumplay here is a reflection of his personality? Because I would have thought not.

I think that Mastins' actions are driven by scum motive. The consequence of scum motive creates these actions. These actions are ones which portray arrogance by Mastin which may be intentional or unintentional. Whether it is intentional or unintentional is irrelevant to his alignment, only a part of his person which isn't affecting my read on him.

[Junpei]

So... I'm not going to respond to any of Mastins' walls like that; no point in it. More Mastin votes please.

[Junpei]

FUck that's a long wall. Not that I read any.

I read it all, but it's so flawed that it isn't worth responding to. I don't think Mastin is scumhunting because the way he is moving from topic to topic and the points that he's making don't logically flow to me from someone who thinks they've caught scum.

[Junpei]

Does posting like that help you catch up or something? Because it isn't content but if it helps you then I'm all for it.

[Junpei]

Oh great, another one of those "I'm really good/observant if you don't see what I see then whatevs" people. And this one even has a reputation for being bad, and isn't just ignorantly bad.

Explain why redFF is scum.

[Junpei]

Well I mean without links no one is really going to follow along there. Do as you please but I personally think it's more effective to just post all your important thoughts at once with links. But like I said if this helps you catch up then go for it.

[Junpei]

LLD and Hez: Why do you want me lynched? Own words please and original phrasing please.

[Junpei]

LLD and Hez: Why do you want me lynched? Own words please and original phrasing please.

I think I said this already.

Infact, I think Mastin even quoted my reasoning in one of his big posts which you apparently read?

I kinda doubt this now.

I want you to repeat yourself, if you will.

[Junpei]

As of post 1417, a new sumarization would be great.

[Junpei]

I don't credit Mastins' attacks because they are so heavily flawed, I'd only drown the thread by responding to them. No one has really specifically supported his points at all so I see no reason to respond to him.

Also, I do have content. To cherry pick a post, is 1057 content? I know I have a lot of not-great content, but I do have content and I do scumhunt

[Junpei]

Junpei, that is 1 post that has very LITTLE content. Infact, all you talk about is a scumslip, and Nero's aggression.

Not good enough, sorry.

So that post is content. That's all I wanted to hear.

[Junpei]

@junpei: what was the purpose of that line of questioning?

LLD was using hyperbole to make his case seem stronger than it really was. Given that she is engulfed in the smoke and mirrors of no content (her post in 1421 hints at confirmation bias to me), I don't really want to argue with her right now about my alignment on other areas/concepts.

Now I'm just waiting on Hez to tell me his reasoning.

[Junpei]

Unvote, Vote: Junpei

Asking for excessive explanation. Someone doesn't need NEW reasons to vote you, especially if they've already mentioned them.

I don't want new reasons, I just want you to say the reasons you currently hold again. I do this for a reason, you know; please comply.

[Junpei]

Unvote, Vote: Junpei

Asking for excessive explanation. Someone doesn't need NEW reasons to vote you, especially if they've already mentioned them.

I don't want new reasons, I just want you to say the reasons you currently hold again. I do this for a reason, you know; please comply.

Why? You can read my ISO yourself.

I know, I just want you to type it out again, originally, not copy and paste. Once again, I'm not someone who does things trivially, I have a purpose.

[Junpei]

Hez: For gods' sake, the validity of your arguments does NOT inversely correlate to the number of times you write them. This isn't a lot of legwork, just write why you think I'm scum.

pedit: Final answer? I have to ask why you refuse to summarize your thoughts on why I am scum if I am so suspicious to you.

[Junpei]

Hurah, links! Now I can actually follow your thoughts.

Do you really think that Ben, GI and LLD are all town?

That's a fundamentally terrible question which doesn't need to be answered.

If he were to ask, do you think X is town? What about Y? And Z? It would have been fine, although in order for that to happen he'd need a reason for those reads.

What Nero did was say "Do you really think that X Y and Z could not contain at least 1 scum?" which is fundamentally flawed because it assigns arbitrary groups to a playerlist which should be assessed individually, not in sets. The purpose here is to make the set of XYZ appear to be scummy as a set, which is fundamentally flawed because mafia are investigated individually.

[Junpei]

I would prefer you post links, but honestly if you intend to do an overall catchup post that includes reads that gets your point across then you don't have to. Basically, I mostly won't be digging through your earlier notes (until later in the game if applicable), so do what you think will get your points across, if you feel you need to link those posts to do that, then so be it. It's your call, I don't know how important those notes are.

[Junpei]

Mastin, stop being such a drama queen; It's suspicious that you are playing a massive noob card while simultaneously backing away from all of your previous reads (and thus, content).

I think that Mastin "wiping the slate clean" is suspicious because it releases him from all previous commitments he has made. We catch scum overtime in isolation; and he is basically cutting everything up to this point off with a few exceptions and wanting to start over.

And yes, StrangerCoug, Mastin not being new is part of my point, though not the main one.

V2V, it meta-self-meta-defense; there's a difference.

Also I think redFF is scum for more than that; his diction and purpose on that page seems not town motivated.

Meta-Self-Meta-defense, as in meta of self meta. That is to say, that using my meta (when I'm referencing it, it is self-meta) as town on me to say I'm town is meaningless because I'm very conscious of my meta, thus it is meta-self-meta. This is different than a meta-defense because a meta-defense claims that one is town because one is acting like one acts when one is town. That is flawed because being conscious of meta makes the tell irrelevant. However a meta-self-meta defense is actually not a defense, rather just pointing out a flaw in someones' logic.

As for 838, I was making two points here: 1) Mastins' mega wall would be anti-town, and 2) I don't think Mastin is scumhunting. I also think that I trust my skill enough to tell when someone is faking their meta or not, but that's unrelated; I just wanted to clear the air on that.

[Junpei]

The Nero v StrangerCoug discussion is a lot of talking without saying much. We should talk about lynching Mastin again.

[Junpei]

Yeah, that's pretty suspicious of Benmage. His ISO is also pretty poor. I'll take his vote as a bus or maybe opposite scum team.

[Junpei]

That's all it takes to get into your scumbox, Kublai Khan? I think that Benmage was pretending to have forgotten who was lynched. I think he thought that not knowing that would be townie so he faked it. I think this because the option of him being town who legitimately forgot does not at all appeal to me and I simply can not believe it.

[Junpei]

Well you haven't really expressed any reasons other than I make bad arguments a long time ago, but I guess if you want to hop on my wagon to make sure Mastin doesn't die then you can try.

[Junpei]

DeasVail: How do you interpret Kublai Khan's posting on this page?

[Junpei]

By the way I should add that what makes Kublai especially suspect on this page is his complete personality change; to me his posting looks like he's trying too hard to think I'm scum and that Mastin isn't. Nothing feels genuine here.

[Junpei]

By the way I should add that what makes Kublai especially suspect on this page is his complete personality change; to me his posting looks like he's trying too hard to think I'm scum and that Mastin isn't. Nothing feels genuine here.

*brain explodes*

Elaborate?

[Junpei]

StrangerCoug: Sure thing, allow me to preface with the idea that I find Kublai to be a mature and rational person and I couldn't find any craziness in his ISO. Nor could I find much suspicion of me at all, save for he doesn't like how my passionate arguments a long time ago.

Yeah, that's pretty suspicious of Benmage. His ISO is also pretty poor. I'll take his vote as a bus or maybe opposite scum team.

What? I'll argue well into the post-game that benmage's active lurking of "uh, I haven't read, but all catch-up" is scummy as balls. But straight-up forgetting who the Day 1 lynch is? How the hell are you trying to paint that as scummy? Scum don't forget who got lynched.

Benmage joins drmyshotgun in the "town, but useless" category. (Also, I should mention that I'm thoroughly insulted that benmage compared himself to me.)

Junpei is in the scumbox.

I am now a scum-read after finding Benmage scummy for reason X. I explained that I did not find him scummy for reason X, but reason Y, and he did not comment.

Also, the mastin2 wagon is crap. He's posted dumb cases, but he hasn't acted scummy.

Mod: Votecount please

P.Edit - Yeah, you're scum, Junpei. Not much doubt now.

Except to say that there is now no doubt about me being scum (yet no vote), and he decides to attack the mastin wagon which is a direct counter to me.

Are... are you trying to OMGUS me for towncred?

LOL! Keep digging.

unvote
Vote: Junpei

Then somehow digs OMGUS out of my 1517 (maybe it's just me, but I certainly wasn't attacking him on virtue of him attacking me, and even if i was I don't see how you can get towncred from that) and votes me (why now and not before, I don't know). Also has yet to comment on why I am scum.

Seems to be stretching to a large degree to not get Mastin lynched, yet get me lynched. It's so blatant that the connection to Mastin (if Kublai is scum) could certainly be faked, but this isn't a rational thought process by Kublai and I don't have any irrational lens to look through here because he hasn't been irrational this game, he's been quite rational.

[Junpei]

What was reason Y again?

I think that you were faking not knowing Rack was lynched.

pedit: Ugh... when was the draft made?

[Junpei]

Had him under

slightscum..

What was reason Y again?

I think that you were faking not knowing Rack was lynched.

pedit: Ugh... when was the draft made?

April 16 735 pm:

Town:
Benmage
AH
KK
Scooby
Jason
NN
Mini-Lib
Fire
Shotgun
Mastin2
Vijay
LLD
Junpei
psyche


Slight town
redFF
DV
Macros
Maxous

Slight scum

Pine
Pratrye

Scum

Hezz

Rack

shotty

Care to explain?

[Junpei]

Sigh, I thought Kublai Khan was going to be fun to play with, but he's not acting much more outstanding than all the others on this site who resort to emotional explicit attacking. I'll try to think of a concise way to respond to that post, I don't want make quote posts in response to quote posts in response to quote posts.

[Junpei]

Benmage, pick 3 people and give me a somewhat detailed read on them please.

[Junpei]

drmyshotgun is NOT confirmed town... what the heck.

[Junpei]

Well I'm also concerned that you're voting a policy lynch rather than a scum read.

Also Mastin should be self voting, that's odd.

[Junpei]

Benmage have you done any ISO reads yet since returning and asking the mod to prod Rack?

[Junpei]

So then why is Pine defeated scum and redFF arrogant town?

[Junpei]

Are we all scum since we didn't replace out?

Mafia theory 100: The opposite of a tell does not indicate the opposite alignment necessarily.

[Junpei]

We need to vote someone... if we don't get a majority we get no lynch. All aboard Mastin.

pedit: ...shotgun can you just vote Mastin?

[Junpei]

Ugh, Pine replacing out? I still prefer to lynch Mastin, I don't know what to do to convince people though.

[Junpei]

Librarian... he means that you aren't actively scumhunting broadly. I don't know if it's true or not, but I believe Nero means that you aren't investigating everyone actively.

[Junpei]

HOW DOES THAT MAKE ME SCUM?

I'm going to focus on two or three people a day, even more so in a large game like this.

If you focus on two or three people you're going to find people are scum. You have to investigate everyone in order to get good reads so that you have a feel for how everyone is playing. You can find reason to call everyone scum, so you need to investigate everyone.

It is scummy because town should generally understand this and want to make sure that they aren't just focusing on town players: They want to find scum and so they look at every suspect, not ruling anyone out.

[Junpei]

nd hypothetically why do you think Mastin-scum would of felt the need to cut himself off from previous ties? Why bother?

It's a form of waffling and not having to worry about work he hasn't done. Basically it's the old "I haven't done any scumhunting, let me just start from the top and tell them that I am doing a second read when it's really my first".

pedit: OhGodMyLife why are you voting me.

[Junpei]

Also, Junpei is really quick to try to talk people out of making that a town tell Which, again, is what scum do, because townies who recognize other townies are the scums' worst nightmare.

It's not a town tell, but whatever, this isn't what made you vote me. Why are you voting me.

pedit: Uh, how the hell is it possible to unconfirm someone who is obviously confirmed town? That makes no sense whatsoever. It wasn't a town tell and you need to be sat down if you think it is (I'll PM you a review of your play after the game if you like). L-2 is not inherently scummy and I find it funny that you think it is.

Stretch harder.

its too easy for scum to make excuses about saving the mod the trouble.

They only make that excuse if it is town... you know Pine to be town??

[Junpei]

He did'nt read the thread previously even though he wrote that 6 part wall of doom with his reads on the whole playerbase?

He wasn't scumhunting certainly, otherwise he wouldn't have needed the wall. He probably figured it'd be easier to be consistent if he just started again rather than try to line up with all his badposting so far.

[Junpei]

There's way more resistance to your lynch, thus its the right one.

There's a TON of resistance to a drmyshotgun lynch. You vote first.

Also I notice how you call me scum to prevent people from calling me town. You're scum using classic scum tactics aren't you?

[Junpei]

There's not going to BE a shotgun lynch because he's town.

There's not going to be a Junpei lynch because Junpei is town!

How does me calling drmyshotgun scum prevent anyone who wants to from calling him town?

[Junpei]

Fine,

vote Pine

Nero, I do most of my self-doubt behind the scenes. Also the last quote of me in that post is sarcasm.

[Junpei]

Fine,

vote Pine

Nero, I do most of my self-doubt behind the scenes. Also the last quote of me in that post is sarcasm.

This post is actually addressed to Kublai Khan.

[Junpei]

dude, Frodo is one of the sketchiest characters in LoTR. I don't trust you.

Lol what the fuck?

You are going to need to explain your reads because if Frodo = scum then I have no clue what to think.

pedit: This game is temporarily better.

[Junpei]

DV, what experience do you have playing with Seacore?

inb4 meta defense of seacore

[Junpei]

None, as far as I'm aware.

What do you think of the slot?

Why did you vote a replacement before they could contribute to the game?

Also, people voting Seacore for "opportunistic voting", you do realize he was voting the only other viable wagon available to him? That's not opportunistic... that's just standard procedure for town or scum. Entirely null.

Well why didn't he vote in his first post then? Why the hesitation?

[Junpei]

Howdy,
I've got a pretty busy weekend going at the moment, with an out of state wedding to go to. So expect me to start getting caught up in a few days. But don't expect me to get 'caught up' caught up. It'll be some ISOs and a skim.

Could somebody please outline the case on Junpei? I don't really care about the case on me, I can't defend Pine's actions.

He knew that we were the two wagons of the day for sure. Yet he doesn't vote me. What changed 10 minutes and zero posts later?

[Junpei]

StrangerCoug, if I replace out will you vote Seacore?

[Junpei]

Well I think that there exist a key number of people who are voting me because Pine is replaced out.

I will replace out if that's what it takes to get Pine lynched, not me. State if this applies to you and we'll see how many swing votes we got.

[Junpei]

Well I think that there exist a key number of people who are voting me because Pine is replaced out.

I will replace out if that's what it takes to get Pine lynched, not me. State if this applies to you and we'll see how many swing votes we got.

You're not replacing out with a wagon deadline.

Pine replaced out with a lot of heat didn't he?

[Junpei]

Alright well, my final reads that I want recognized are:

Nero scum
Mastin scum
DeasVail scum
StrangerCoug scum

DeasVail waffling and being careful not to trip any wires. StrangerCoug seems to be opportunistic and not wanting to trip wires. Mastin I've already explained as with Nero.

Those are my most important reads. I claim VT by the way, and Seacore is still the best lynch. "vote junpei because seacore is a replace-in" is bull ethics and that needs to be purged from the site.

[Junpei]

Town. Never did know why people suspected me, but oh well. Don't forget those reads at least, they are important to at least consider even if you don't agree/won't agree.

[Junpei]

Didn't really think about it. But no, I wouldn't have normally missed that; Deasvils' comment along with shotguns' fooled me though. I'm watching basketball and studying for exams so I'm not at my most alert.

[Junpei]

StrangerCoug seems to be opportunistic and not wanting to trip wires.

Here's a hint next time you're in a game: These are two different things.

Here's a hint next time you read my post: They didn't happen simultaneously.

[Junpei]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4037841
Opportunistic

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4021112
This is maybe the only post that isn't not being aggressive or more importantly the only one that is using real conviction. I mean the staples of your ISO are an argument about policy lynches and a post hoc catchup post (As if they couldn't be post hoc, but still).

[Junpei]

1) Your vote is bad because you had been on the fence about me/seacore previously.

2) Isn't not being aggressive clearly means that post is aggresive-ish and the rest is passive. Are you sure you're awake?

As for your explanation, it seems like you looked at it and rewrote it a few times. Please confirm if this is true for me.

pedit: An explanation?

[Junpei]

I rewrote sections of it before posting, yes. Why is that scummy?

I didn't say it was scummy, did I?

Your quick switch onto me on one small detail is bad no matter what you have said. By the way I was concerned about Seacores' SECOND content post (third overall) being the vote. I was expecting him fully to vote me, but I would have thought he'd do it immediately. The hesitation is odd.

[Junpei]

Ah, I totally had no idea they were different people.

So you pretty much haven't done any reading whatsoever have you. Also no where did Kublai Kahn say for you to "roll over and die".

[Junpei]

Seems like he'd make up some reason if he was scum.

That would take a lot more effort and reading which Seacore clearly has no time for.

[Junpei]

Ugh. I can't watch this. I just have to intervene because Kublai's logic is bugging me too much.

Kublai: Your logic is fine only if Seacore has reason beyond randomness to think that I'm a PR. Granted he didn't have reason beyond randomness to think I'm scum (which is why it's scummy). If you want to make the point that Seacore shouldn't have voted before getting a read on me and then deciding whether to kneel over and die or not then fine; but you're presenting that point as if you are saying that VTs should all die to avoid risk of PR-claiming prematurely.

[Junpei]

Seacore: Is a vote parked on me better than no vote parked at all?

I agree scum would want a no lynch, but would scum want to admit that they want a no lynch?

[Junpei]

Uh... did I miss something? I think that the test results are as null as anything could be..

Why do you think DV is scum, Seacore?

[Junpei]

vote mastin

Obvious suicide attack on me is obvious, lets lynch scum now.

[Junpei]

Howdy,
I've got a pretty busy weekend going at the moment, with an out of state wedding to go to. So expect me to start getting caught up in a few days. But don't expect me to get 'caught up' caught up. It'll be some ISOs and a skim.

Could somebody please outline the case on Junpei? I don't really care about the case on me, I can't defend Pine's actions.

He knew that we were the two wagons of the day for sure. Yet he doesn't vote me. What changed 10 minutes and zero posts later?

[Junpei]

HezLucky... that was a 13 player game. This is a 24 player game which moves much faster. This hasn't been a good time in my life to be in large games.

[Junpei]

It's easier to be strong and active in a smaller game for most people. When I struggle to catch up I can't produce content and get off to a slow start.

[Junpei]

I know how many posts I have Nero, but it's the mindset. I've been behind a lot of this game and have struggled with the size.

You think I'm town but you like SC's vote on me. lololololololol

sigh

This is a great example of one of the big issues with this game: People like Nero frustrating people like DeasVail by using absolutely shitty logic.

LLD do you also think it is scummy that I didn't think drmyshotgun wasn't confirmed town?

[Junpei]

I'll also go for Nero today, if Mastin can't hang.

pedit: yes, I don't see how it's not relevant as I most certainly did not think drmyshotgun was confirmed town until dawn and he flipped town.
pedit2: Ugh.. LLD you made a valid point but the way you explain in that post is completely fallacious... this is going to be a long game.

[Junpei]

Nero clearly is a badass who has a worthwhile opinion.

You can insult me when you don't have to put compliments in your signature to remind yourself that there do in fact exist moments where not every single person on this planet hates you.

More reasons to think Nero and Mastin is scum: Nero rarely mentions Mastin, and when he does its passive or to ask for a case on him or to give a null read on him. Keep on passively defending your partner, it's amateur but one day you might learn.

[Junpei]

He's seen my scum play. I attack my buddies pretty often (self meta, not great I know) but me knowing this I got a pretty big kick out of Jun saying that me and Mastin were scum b/c I barely mentioned him.

You should know I don't like meta, I get "a pretty big kick out of" you suggesting I care about your meta beyond the fact that you're highly immature.

[Junpei]

You should know I don't like meta, I get "a pretty big kick out of" you suggesting I care about your meta beyond the fact that you're highly immature.

Why do you choose not to let yourself be influenced by meta?

Because it is irrelevant in my process of understanding a persons' mind. I've seen it make big mistakes and be thrown around far too much. I think it is toxic to the game and is easily abused.

Why do you ask?

[Junpei]

I picked a random mini to help hone my scumhunting skills (DAMN YOU PARANOIA MAFIA) - it was Divided Germany.

Junpei was in that game. He was town.

He is not playing here like he was playing there. Junpei was a helluva lot more vocal in that game, and a town leader.

Vote: Junpei

I was also in divided germany. I don't think I'm playing the same way I did in that game. Does that make me scum?

I doubt he actually read that game. I'm confident he just cherrypicked a game I was in and ISO'd me.

[Junpei]

Quoting your post doesn't answer my question. It tells me THAT you were surprised, not WHY you were surprised.

I was surprised that he DIDN'T immediately vote me. I was surprised that it took a 10 minute pause and another post to do so. I was surprised that he initially had the mindset that he wasn't going to vote me.

It's possible to think X is scum and think that Y's vote on X is good (good reasons, looks town).

[Junpei]

This still tells me nothing new. I already know the what; I want to know the why.

..Because he should probably want to vote me just based on a simple fact which he expressed knowledge of at the time of the first post, yet he did not. I felt that if he were town he would have acted with a vote in THAT post, rather than mysteriously wait 10 minutes and then vote based on the aforementioned simple fact.

[Junpei]

Well my play this game pretty much confirms me as town on its own so you suspecting me and keeping me in the lynch pool is SCUMMY!

[Junpei]

In what way does your play confirm you as town?

I was using sarcasm to show the absurdity in OhGodMyLife's logic. But if you want me to continue with the sarcasm, then I'll say that my traits which make me confirmed town are self-evident and should not need to be questioned.

[Junpei]

3. You are jumping to pretty damn fast conclusions on me when you don't know what I have done.

We are allowed to make assumptions if they are valid based on content received. The only assumptions we can make given your content is that you have barely read the game at all and have little interest in doing so or scumhunting.

Why don't you have lots of reads?

[Junpei]

(that you are BLATANTLY deflecting, mind you)

It's not called deflecting, it's called deferring from. Deferring from a wagon is not a scum tell at all on its own.

Everyone notice how Mastin is lurking through the game and people forget about him.

[Junpei]

@ Junpei - care to share the below yet?

Mastin, I have 3 massive walls just on Macro in MY QT, my conclusion is one which would be anti-town to announce now.

That was sarcasm to show the absurdity in Mastin's statements. When someone says something which I think is overtly childish, I respond with sarcasm.

[Junpei]

So town are always right so we should lynch who the town were on YESTERDAY? You're making associative tells on pre-flipped players?!

vote Kdowns

Since people are committed to making me the only wagon.

[Junpei]

It should read: "you're making associative tells on un-flipped players?!"

[Junpei]

You know I'd love to lynch Kdowns today. But, doing it is a waste of time as half the town will run you up again tomorrow and we'll be left with the same problem.

It's not me you need to convince it's them.

The case on me is quite literally that I was a counter wagon to Seacore. There is zero research which suggests I am scum because of this, but we aren't exactly playing in a game full of college students/graduates so not much I can do there.

Anyway, do you think that after me there won't be another townie who will get run up with a big wagon Day 4? Don't you realize that the statistical probability is high and that if your philosophy is to lynch people who get bigger wagons a lot then you won't go better than random over time? Unless you can prove that scum get bigger wagons two days in a row a lot more than town..

If you're saying I'm a distraction, I'm only a distraction if I am lynched; but until then I am not. If we don't let me get lynched this game, eventually scum will HAVE to kill me. If I don't die till then then not lynching me is a huge success.

[Junpei]

Disbelieving Shotty for one

Which is not a scumtell. Explain the scum motive behind going out of your way to swim against the currents and explain how if I were scum I would think that I could singlehandedly change public opinion about Shotty? Explain why it's unbelievable that I wasn't townie expressing my opinion.

[Junpei]

Junpei (4) - redFF, mastin2, HezLucky, Lady Lambdadelta

I think Nero and Mastin are scum. I have suspicion of StrangerCoug. Hez, LLD, and redFF I think are just full of testosterone like most young teenage boys are; I don't have suspicion of them.

I don't have a big opinion on kdowns but I'll get one soon enough. I have no choice though but to put my vote there for the time being. I think you can understand why, at least.

I wasn't trying to gain anything by doubting shotty's claim, I was expressing my opinion. Anyone who knows me knows that I am the last person to call someone confirmed town for something that the mod doesn't announce, regardless of alignment. In fact redFF probably deserves another look later.

[Junpei]

I'm sorry, in what universe am I a young teenage boy?

Well you act like one so I just assumed this was the case.

Case. That's a funny word. Reminds of the case on me which doesn't exist.

[Junpei]

Also, kdowns, TML, Jun, and FG were on both mislynches.

Cool, so that makes us less likely to be scum huh? After all, scum wouldn't want to be caught on a mislynch, nevermind TWO.

[Junpei]

Can I PM Psyche about the thread? Because I have critical objections to it. Can I say the objections inthread? How does the thread influence the game negatively? How does the thread in any way compromise his alignment?

Stop getting your diapers wet everyone, I'm pretty sure it's fine.

[Junpei]

LLD:

Can you tell me why Junpei is scum please?

Why are you ignoring this, LLD? Why are you instead talking about the trivial MD thread Psyche is playing with?

[Junpei]

Wow, you act like GreyICE... hopefully it's a phase.

Tell me the theory behind why mafia want to intentionally put themselves in the spotlight by expressing an unpopular opinion. Also I'm wondering if you think it is easy for one person with minimal influence to change the minds of 20 people or not.

86 pages. Can I in good conscience make someone read that?

There are players who specialize in that sort of thing.

You are hurting this town by staying here and not doing anything.

Wrong. Name 5 players who specialize in that sort of thing that are active and available.

Also, kdowns, TML, Jun, and FG were on both mislynches.

Cool, so that makes us less likely to be scum huh? After all, scum wouldn't want to be caught on a mislynch, nevermind TWO.

meh, I don't by it. If you think that scum are more likely to avoid a mislynch why are you not pushing on mastin2, HezLucky, DeasVail, Code_X, drmyshottyizsik?

I don't buy it either, but you would use that kind of shitty logic which is why I brought it up. I don't buy your argument though so have fun with that.

[Junpei]

see if I can find anythig else to justify that suspicion with.

That is the WORST way to scumhunt. You're going to find suspicious things because you want to. I'll be offering scumhunting lessons for everyone in this game postgame if you're interested... these are pretty rudimentary issues.

Also you ignored my request. Got no reasoning?

[Junpei]

Mod, replace me, I'm not really sorry, I have another game I'm in, and two more which I expect to be in a month from now. I have a life and your game is boring so I'm cutting time where I can.

LLD: I'm confident by now that you're one of those weird guys who pretends to be a girl on the internet, and I have a policy against helping those types of people.