Mafia 52: Back to the Basics - Abandoned!

[StevieT92]

vote:spectrumvoid

[StevieT92]

unvote, vote: primate

I think he is a prime suspect here.

[StevieT92]

Ok, on the false-mock day, he does something scummy as a joke. I think this is very scummy, since it is trying to stop us from taking the idea of primate being scum seriously. Also, in the day itself, he instantly knows the way the guy died, when it was kind of confusing to me, and didn't seem that clear. This is less scummy, but when combined with the other thing, makes him seem VERY scummy.

[StevieT92]

Scum List:

1. B Rob
2. Primate
3. Yosarian2

unvote, vote: B Rob

[StevieT92]

Uh, Stevie. Your list makes no sense.


B Rob (Your #1) bandwagoned against Primate (Your #2). Do you suspect that B Rob was throwing Primate under the bus, over the river, through the woods, and into the rainbow? If so, explain why you think this is the case.

Yosarian... where does that come into play? Pushing a wagon to see how people react to it can be a great way to pick up on early scumtells.



Sounds like Stevie's pretty happy playing follow the leader... while casting his net as wide as possible, based on nothing more than having read Fritz's and my posts.

NEW BANDWAGON TIME!

Unvote B Rob
Vote: StevieT92

First of all I was the one to really start the wagon against Primate, andI was the one to really present all the evidence.

FOS: Glork

for suggesting I was just 'following the leader' when I was the one leading the charge.

[StevieT92]

First of all I was the one to really start the wagon against Primate, andI was the one to really present all the evidence.

Huh? Can you explain how you were the one to stat it when you didn't participate at all before the day actually began, and you didn't jump onto the Primate wagon until late.

I was the 3rd actual vote. It's not a bandwagon if 2 people are voting. Therefore i started the bandwagon.

[StevieT92]

Scum List:

1. B Rob
2. Primate
3. Yosarian2

unvote, vote: B Rob

wtf is yos on your list?

Yos is on my list because I don't trust Yos and want to put pressure on him.

[StevieT92]

Any specific reason for that, guy?

Because your better than me.

[StevieT92]

Heh...well, thanks, I guess, but even if that were true it still wouldn't make me any more likely to be scum then anyone else.

It makes you more likely to get away with being scum, though.

[StevieT92]

It makes you more likely to get away with being scum, though.

It would also make him more likely to be an asset to the town. I don't think "You don't seem scummy to me but you're a good player so it might be good to lynch you anyways" is a healthy(pro-town) argument.

I never wanted to lynch him, I wanted to put pressure on him.

[StevieT92]

We seem to have a lot of lurking in this game.

[StevieT92]

Mostly because he isn't making sense. This list is very strange:

Scum List:

1. B Rob
2. Primate
3. Yosarian2

unvote, vote: B Rob

...at least two names don't belong there. I dont' find Primate or Yos to be scummy, at least not yet. When he is asked about it, his answer is even worse:

First of all I was the one to really start the wagon against Primate, andI was the one to really present all the evidence.

FOS: Glork

for suggesting I was just 'following the leader' when I was the one leading the charge.

I don't see this at all. Stevie hasn't posted much against anyone, let alone "presenting all the evidence" against Primate.

His continued defence:

First of all I was the one to really start the wagon against Primate, andI was the one to really present all the evidence.

Huh? Can you explain how you were the one to stat it when you didn't participate at all before the day actually began, and you didn't jump onto the Primate wagon until late.

I was the 3rd actual vote. It's not a bandwagon if 2 people are voting. Therefore i started the bandwagon.

I can't quite put it into words, but this just isn't making sense, especially when you combine it with his other posts.

Most recently, he said he put Yos on his scum list just to put pressure on him, but he doesn't want to lynch him. That just doesn't fit together.

Ok, on the false-mock day, he does something scummy as a joke. I think this is very scummy, since it is trying to stop us from taking the idea of primate being scum seriously. Also, in the day itself, he instantly knows the way the guy died, when it was kind of confusing to me, and didn't seem that clear. This is less scummy, but when combined with the other thing, makes him seem VERY scummy.

B Rob I am calling you out on some horrible bull right here.

unvote, vote: B Rob

[StevieT92]

EBWOP:

Also I have a ton of street cred




negative street cred ;_;

[StevieT92]

unvote, vote: Bluemonick

[StevieT92]

I'm going camping until Sunday.

Romanus: I really didn't feel the need to explain, as anyone who'd been reading the thread would've seen that post just a few above mine. That was the reason.

[StevieT92]

I do agree that it does kinda seem like Axel might have been trying to buddy up with a town (or defend his scumpartner, if you feel that way), so that if I was lynched he would look smarter, but in reality, I think it's just a minor thing.

Also I'm not so sure about lynching Lurkers, sometimes you might want to lynch 1 so that the threat is real, but beyond that I'm not so sure.

[StevieT92]

but in reality, I think it's just a minor thing.

I just want to point this out so B Rob can't mislead everyone here.


In fact,

unvote, vote: B Rob

since Blue is being replaced.

[StevieT92]

We should all vote for B Rob. Discussion has stagnated and we need to move this game along.

[StevieT92]

Well you can call this vote hopping, but I didn't like that last post by Stevie so

UNVOTE; VOTE: StevieT92

[StevieT92]

Mod: votecount please?

I'll wait for rebby's replacement.

Not sure what to think of Stevie's post. Yes, the game is stagnant, but it doesn't mean we should rush into lynching.

I don't think this is rushing. We've discussed this a lot, and he's been under scrutiny the entire game.

[StevieT92]

I think that MMOD would've done that if he had been townie or scum, but I do think he is more likely to be scum because of his actions.

[StevieT92]

Hello!

I'm with Primate in that I think MMOD just made a mistake, plain and simple. We keep it mind sure and if he does some more scummy things then it all weighs in against him. For now though I'm willing to at least give him time to read though the thread and post his thoughts.

An interesting little game we have here lots of stuff going on in these few pages, here are my thoughts on various people.

B Rob – Under pressure because of the way he handled the Primate bandwagon and how he jumped off it. Doesn't really seem to see how his actions seem contradictory to others. Blatantly band wagoning in one post then unvoting because of no information in the next. It was strange to say the least. He has made a semi decent attempt at defending himself so I'm not really sure about him. I think his lynch could give us a boat load of information and there is a high chance that he is scum after his early day actions.

Romanus – I'm getting some bad vibes off this guy. He demands people explain their votes but has voted a few times himself with no real explaination

unvote, vote: Bluemonick

Stevie, that type of post is only acceptable on the first few pages, not page 11. Please explain your vote.

Thanks

Well you can call this vote hopping, but I didn't like that last post by Stevie so

UNVOTE; VOTE: StevieT92

Mystery Meat of Doom, you got some splainin' to doooooo.

UNVOTE; VOTE: Mystery Meat of Doom

During his criticism of Stevie he totally “over looked” The Ace who has done nothing but jump on band wagons. Convenient much? Don't think so

The Ace – This is his contribution to the thread.

vote: primate

I'll admit my first vote was a bandwagon vote. And it's going to look like it again but in my eyes everyone's making sense but B-Rod.

Unvote; Vote: B-Rod

I'm here. I just see nothing to discuss

vote: lordy

I made the vote beause I'm used to bandwagonning type Mafias and not all the talking and figuring stuff out.

Now that I think about it theres not really any proof against anyone so

unvote

Vote: The Ace

Come out of your little hidey hole and post who you think could be scum and why. Right now I'm thinking your band wagoning scum trying to fly under the radar, hence the vote. I'm surprised nobody pointed this out before.

Also it says a deadline in the title of the thread but there is no actual deadline right? Just the one about meaningful discussion, which I think we have going.

:goodposting:

unvote, vote: The Ace

[StevieT92]

Ahhh...hate to break it to ya Scotty but thats the way I play my Mafia games. I sit back and watch for the first couple of days until the numbers diwndle down. Keeps my head out of the firing line of the Mafia usually.

But since you ask I'm with everyone else. B-Rod's been suspicious just about the whole game and Romanus's vote-hopping yesterday has me a little suspicious of him.

But I'm not going to vote just yet. I'll sit back and watch some more and if you all wanna vote me for it, then that's your own fault.

You think it's better to be lynched than to be nightkilled?

[StevieT92]

unvote, vote: B Rob

[StevieT92]

I am not comfortable switching to a Lordy lynch here.

[StevieT92]

You need to change the thread title.

[StevieT92]

I was kinda miffed about the whole lynch situation too yesterday.

Vote: B Rob

I was never, ever satisfied by his answers, and I am also getting a bad vibe off his recent posts.

[StevieT92]

I would say I am pushing for your lynch harder. I think a better D2 lynch would be nice, but as of right now, I'm not so sure about anyone other than B Rob. I will say I want Lordy and Mariayta to post more, I haven't heard much relevent stuff from either.

[StevieT92]

I would say I am pushing for your lynch harder. I think a better D2 lynch would be nice, but as of right now, I'm not so sure about anyone other than B Rob. I will say I want Lordy and Mariayta to post more, I haven't heard much relevent stuff from either.

vote: stevie

Why lordy and mariyta, and not the myriads of other lurkers we have? At least they are posting, even if it's not always relevant. It looks like you're pushing for a specific reaction from those two that you can use against them.

I am pushing for a specefic reaction from them. It's called content. I pointed those two out because they have been actively lurking (posting but not a lot of content) as opposed to simply not posting. I think the 1st is more scummy.

[StevieT92]

Would you rather we didn't contribute at all and just hide in the shadows? People seem to get by pretty easily doing that.

No, but if the mod is going to replace the people who have small postcounts, then that is taken care of.

[StevieT92]

The setup is that B Rob was going to be the lynch yesterday, but we had a modkill instead. The mafia kill the person who was pushing the wagon to make him look even more suspicious, and since we were willing to lynch him yesterday, why not do it again today, especially with the addition of arguably his biggest accuser being killed last night.

Why spectrumvoid?

considering the judgment above, I believe that scum are not going to push this wagon, mainly bacause they shouldn't have to. Put a vote on to make sure things stay on B Rob but no need to push, even cast suspicion elsewhere. Spectrumvoid just looks like she is sliding right into that slot right now. No one particular post is scummy, just the overall 'strategy.'

I am not for a B Rob lynch today, and attacking the scum on his wagon is a good place to start. Looks like a likely candidate to me. The FOS first was because I did want to really consider who should be looked at. I am also very open to other theories, this is just what I am thinking right now.

The 1st paragraph is very WIFOM, but I do kind of agree with your overall sentiment, so I will

unvote, vote:

Scrotum

Spectrumvoid

FOR PRESSURE

[StevieT92]

Glork I think that you take very little thing and blow it out of proportion. I will try and dissect your post soon, but not tonight.

Also, one of the reasons I was voting B Rob is that the only real good second bandwagon is me. Now, I'm obviously not going to vote myself, and I do not believe in the principle of putting one vote on somebody random and going HAY GUAYS I FOUND UN SCUMZ, like you had been doing a little bit until you posted that big analysis.

[StevieT92]

Alright. Here's my case against ScummyT92.

His first post (35) was a seemingly random vote against Spectrumvoid.

In Post 50, he moves to Primate -- the fourth vote on Primate, just after the game actually opened. (Remember that Primate had made a joke during the pre-game about being a Cop with a guilty result, and got wagoned up to six votes during that time.) Stevie calls Primate a "prime suspect," but offers no elaboration.

Yosarian, Axel, and Glork voiced concerns about the wagon, and then Stevie gave an explanation in Post 67. He says that he thinks Primate's joke was scummy.
First of all, this isn't true. Anybody who has played with me, Fritzler, Coron, Pooky, Ibby, MBL, or... oh, I donno... approximately half the players on this site... know that jokes are to be taken at face value, and have no inherent scumminess. The mere fact that Stevie is trying to

defend

such a wagon is rather absurd, IMHO. It sounds like Stevie's trying to give a rationale to a wagon that is suddenly stalling, because intelligent players are going "wow, this is scummy."

I do believe it is scummy. Also, is primate you, Fritzler, Coron, Pooky, Ibby, or MBL? He's a newer player who I don't think was just fooling around. At that stage in the game, it was all we had to go on. Also I think you blow this a little out of proportion just to get more evidence.

B Rob and TheAce both get some attention for bandwagoning -- in fact, Ace even joins B Rob's wagon. So what does Stevie do? Stick to the three biggest suspects in the game without ANY reasoning offered: check out his "scum list" in Post 111. B Rob, Primate, Yosarian. And he jumps aboard the BRob wagon.

Anything for an easy lynch. Anything at all.

I wouldn't define a 'popular' lynch as an easy lynch. If he had gotten to say 9 votes I would have hopped off so there could be more discussion.

Like I said before, if you're the only person voting for a particular person, then your vote is wasted. You can raise concerns about people without unvoting, which enables the town to lynch in situations where it might stall out. If you are voting for a particular bandwagon, it helps the town in case a deadline, and it lessens the needed lynch count by 1, all which are important functions served by a vote.

I am going to refer back to this argument and I will just put "~~~" so that's what I mean.

So I accuse Stevie of "playing follow the leader" in Post 113, to which Stevie replies (in Post 116) that he was "leading the charge." Leading what charge? Stevie was

FOURTH

on the Primate wagon, then tried to continue fueling it even as it began to die down. And he was

SIXTH

on the BRob wagon. It's true that Stevie presented "evidence" against Primate. But he jumped on a wagon that was already en route (as indicated by the pre-day-one talk, and the quick three votes on Primate). And his reasons, to put it simply, were utter bullshit.

I was fourth on the primate wagon, but like I had posted before, I was the first one to really state a case, and IIRC about two of those were random or semirandom votes.

I never said anything about leading the BRob wagon.

Wagoning a player on shitty reasoning is scummy. End of story. Wagoning another player, while calling out the third most suspected player as part of your scumlist, is also scummy. End of Story.

"~~~"
b) Part of this whole mountanous game was getting your opinions on EVERYONE in writing. What, I'm not allowed to say someone is scummy?

The Unholy Trifecta: Post 140, Post 145, and 147 are also a little absurd. Stevie's claimed reasoning for suspecting Yos

DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE

.

In hindsight this was a mistake, however I can tell you what I was thinking at the time.

In a football game, when there is an apparent blitzing linebacker, the QB points this out. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE IS NECESSARILY GOING TO BLITZ. It is merely pointing it out that the potential situation there, in this case the fact that a scum Yos could fly under the radar very well.

Glork likes his StevieVote. That's not surprising.

Glork STILL likes his StevieVote. Hint, hint?

Please don't use your own votes as reason for voting me. That's pretty scummy right there.

B Rob offers a pretty reasonable assessment of why Stevie is a scumbag in Post 177 and 178 (immediately following... scroll down, bitches). Remember that later, B Rob was uber-wagoned during our "post or perish" deadline. I still maintain that this is a *MASSIVE* indicator that BRob is not scum.

He has restated points there that you have already pointed out, so I'm not going to restate everything.

Part of the reason I wanted that B Rob lynch was because of the uber-wagon. This was why I pointed him out as a good starting point for today. Also, I feel that he never really answered the questions head on, just answered part or dodged them. Confirming him as a town would also give us a very nice list to go off of.

Anyway.... back to StevieT and why he's a dirty scum. Post 210? Pure OMGUS.

"I don't see this at all. Stevie hasn't posted much against anyone, let alone "presenting all the evidence" against Primate."

I was calling him out on this as I was the only person to really post a case against primate, and that he was basically talking out of his ass there.
[quote[
Post 273 -- agreeing with another player with regards to lurker-voting.
Post 296 -- agreeing with another player with regards to Axel. Also agrees with another (myself) about not lurker-lynching. Minor flip-flop here.[/quote]

Like I said before, there is a difference between voting, bandwagonning, and lynching. I would generally support lurker bandwagonning, but not lynching.

Post 299... back to the BRob wagon.


Linked for Truthery. There's a discernable Stevie/Axelrod connection here. I believe it's called a "minor distancing tactic."

If you're going to try to connect me and Axel here, that was all Axel. He definitely started that. So it's not a point against me.

In Post 313, Stevie continues to push the BRob wagon because the game is stalling.

I pointed out earlier about how lynching B Rob would give us a solid base for analysis.

Another simple agreement post in Post 349. Note also how quickly Stevie dropped the BRob push when he realized that nobody was going to quicklynch BRob.

"~~~"
Also, the whole agreeing thing was part of the whole "Get all of your opinions written down for analysis" thing.
[quote[Then, all of a sudden.... Mari votes BRob, Glork votes BRob, Stevie votes BRob, Fritz vote BRob... IN THE SPAN OF FOUR POSTS. Ace (Post 375), Primate (Post 376), Lordy (Post 377) pile on THREE MORE VOTES in THREE CONSECUTIVE POSTS just a little bit later.[/quote]

"~~~", also I was one of the first people on that, so I did not necessarily know what would unfold

If this isn't evidence of BRob being quicklynched, I don't know what is. I'll wager that 2-3 of Stevie, Fritzler, Ace, Primate, Lordy are scum. Right now, I'd say that Stevie, Fritzler, and Lordy are scumbags.

I generally find that posts like this tend to be way off. IMHO, Scum won't all group together like that, and also it's never that easy

Lordy picks up some votes for his wagoning (after lurking hardcore for most of the game), and then what happens? STEVIE DOES NOT WANT A LORDY LYNCH!!
Damn, I'm good. So very good. Lordy + Stevie ftw. With a little Fritz on the side. I'm calling it. Right now.

1st off, why would I find someone scummy for something I just did.
Also, like I said before, I can almost guarentee that you're never going to be right on all three on day 2 in a mountainous game. Also don't act like you made those two as seperate posts, you didn't 'call' anything.

Coron gets modkilled, people are sad.



Enter Day Two. What's the first thing Stevie does? He votes BRob in Post 446. Despite never being satisfied by BRob's answers (as he claims), Stevie was perfectly happy jumping whever else there was some momentum. He also never explains WHY he is unsatisfied by BRob, WHAT his accusations are against BRob, or WHAT he would like BRob to address. It's hard to give satisfactory answers when everyone goes "vote BRob" with no explanation

WHATSOEVER

(as I pointed out in that seven-votes-in-eleven-posts sequence, or whatever it was).[/close]

I kind of got ahead of myself back there but I explained why I thought he was a good STARTING POINT. I earlier talked a little about how I feel he dodged questions a little bit. I can make another long post in a couple days if you'd like?

Small kicker that supports my BRob/Lordy/Fritz theory: Fritz's Post 449. Support Stevie, FoS your scumbuddy, toss out a cursory comment to another player.
:scumposting:

Jesus christ stop stroking your own ego.

[qupte]In Pages 19/20, Stevie points out that he's pushing the BRob lynch hard, and that he wants pressure on Lordy and Mari. Again, the "group of three, one of which is a scumbuddy" theory might apply. Admittedly, Stevie's posts are a little more reasonable during this stretch. But then...

I wanted some more pressure on Lordy at that point because he had not posted in a while.

Post 517. Again, he agrees with someone and goes off in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIRECTION. This guy has been all over the place all game. He's followed anybody with an iota of momentum. In the very next post, I go to Stevie and ask why he hasn't been lynched yet.

He went and raised some good points about scrotumvoid, so I voted him. I dont understand how you dont understand here.

[StevieT92]

Ok, so, big day here. I actually read Stevie's post (well, most of it). Amazing, huh? Still didn't read Glork's that much, but hey, Stevie quoted a lot of it, right? I'm feeling the Stevie love now. Er, not love, lynch. Lynch, lynch. (As a side note: Sierra Mist + coconut rum= yummy, Sierra Mist + pineapple rum = not so much) Anyway, I forgot why I was voting B Rob for now and I'm too lazy to go back and re-read, so based on current events (plus the fact that he's being ridiculously immature in renaming spectrum for no reason and it annoys me when people do that),

Unvote, Vote StevieT92

unvote, vote, Mariyta

. This looks like a blatant attempt to make a scummy post while labeling yourself drunk, also that last part about me being immature and you voting me for it is ridiculous.

[StevieT92]

Nice OMGUS vote. Very mature.

It wasn't an OMGUS. It was an OMGURVOTING4CRAPREASONSDIESCUM vote. Try and figure out that acronym.

[StevieT92]

I am kind of getting a wierd vibe off Axel. When I turn up townie he might be a nice lead.

[StevieT92]

....