Mafia 52: Back to the Basics - Abandoned!

[Yosarian2]

So, I guess we're in day 1 now?

vote:primate

[Yosarian2]

vote:primate

If he's going to OMGUS vote me for a vote that happened on a day that never actually happened, I may as well OMGUS vote him back.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, I know I started the primate wagon; twice in fact; but this is a little abusrd.

[Yosarian2]

I was pointing out the absurdity of the speed of the bandwagon. There is no reason for me to unvote at the moment, though; if anyone else jumped on the bandwagon right now, there'd be pleanty of time for me to unvote before a lynch happened, and this is a more interesting place to be right now.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian - Joke? Yos. "random" voted Primate in the "confirm" stage. The Primate "random" votes him after the day actually started.

Heh. I don't actually random vote; when I do vote without reason at the start of the game, I usually try to aim for the person who I think I'm most likely to get an interesting reaction from.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...ok, the scum aren't willing to claim by all going for a day 1 speedlynch, huh? Darn.

unvote:Primate

[Yosarian2]

Oh, come on.cyou all can't be serious, unless you don't care about who you lynch.

If you do care about who you lynch, why did you join the wagon so quickly when it was moving at such an absurd speed?

I haven't done anything unusual, unless you consider the entire Primate wagon as unusual.

...and you don't think the wagon was unusual?

[Yosarian2]

I didn't have a reason for voting. Did anybody? You should be asking yourself if I had a reason for

staying

.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if some people had a reason for that voting, and that reason was "primate looks like an easy lynch".

To see what would happen, I suppose. Looks like it was a good decision, since people are now accusing me with very little basis.

(shrug) You voted for primate for no reason, and insist it wasn't scummy. Now you're trying to attack people who are voting for you for a reason? A perfectly rational reason, as well, which is basically that it seems like scum might be more likely to jump on that bandwagon of Primate at that point then a town person would. It's not a very reliable scum tell (clearly not EVERYONE pushing the wagon could be scum), but it's better then nothing.

Even more suspicious, in my mind, is the way you then jumped off the wagon after you were voted for being on it.

[Yosarian2]

The Ace: You realize your Primate vote was just as suspicious as B-Rod's vote, for the exact same reason, right?

[Yosarian2]

I'm curious: who else is going to vote hop onto me?

I'm curious; do you really think this passive-agressive "oh, I wonder who else is going to vote for me" stuff is going to get you anywhere?

[Yosarian2]

Heh...ok, the scum aren't willing to claim by all going for a day 1 speedlynch, huh? Darn.

unvote:Primate

:extremelysuspectposting:

(shrug) Well, that is why I left my vote there as long as I did; I wanted to see just how far the bandwagon would go.

[Yosarian2]

I certainly shouldn't let this go.

Vote: Yosarian 2

...

what?

I thought I was clear. I voted Primate as a silly OMGUS vote. When the bandwagon got silly, I pointed that out, but I saw no reason to remove my vote at that moment in time; I knew I was going to be near by computer and be able to check on the thread fairly often that day, so if by some off chance the Primate bandwagon suddenly took a nose-dive and approached a lynch, I'd be able to unvote before that happened, and that kind of speed-lynch attempt would give us a ton of information. That was at 11:14 am on Saturday.

That didn't appear to be happening (not that I really thought it would, but hey, you never know), but I didn't want to leave my vote on there overnight (not that I expected him to get lynched while I was asleep, but again, you never know) so I pulled off the vote before I went to bed that evening and make a snarky little comment about how the scum apparently weren't going to try to pull off a speedlynch that day.

Anyway, b. rob, are you just trying to get yourself lynched at this point? This isn't one of those stupid "I'm going to act really scummy and see wh gets on my bandwagon" gambits, is it? Because the answer is "if you act scummy, EVERYONE, town or scum, will get on your bandwagon", and that's not helpful.

[Yosarian2]

The main reason people suspect you, B Rob, is not because of when you left the Primate wagon, it's because of when you joined the Primate wagon.

[Yosarian2]

You really think being a "self-proclaimed bandwagoner" on a bandwagon you yourself say "bad for the town" makes you less suspicious?

And, yes, there are several people who look more suspicious because of their position on the bandwagon. That does not change the fact that you are one of them.

[Yosarian2]

Any specific reason for that, guy?

[Yosarian2]

Heh...well, thanks, I guess, but even if that were true it still wouldn't make me any more likely to be scum then anyone else.

[Yosarian2]

vote:Rebby

He's only posted twice, and one of those posts was one of those highly suspicious late "primate" bandwagon posts. So not only is he a lurker, but the only thing he's done all game that even looks like content also looks suspicious.

[Yosarian2]

Well, right now I'm hoping to use my vote to pressure Rebby to post more, although I wouldn't mind lynching him either at this point.

[Yosarian2]

It happens, but it's the town's job to not let them do that. When you see a lurker, vote them, bring attention to them, and either they'll feel the pressure and start posting, or get lynched, or get replaced.

Especally in a game with no power roles, with nothing but townies and scum, we can not let people lurk; if they don't post we have no way of figuring out their alignment.

[Yosarian2]

I'm almost ready to move on to the B Rob bandwagon, but I would still like to hear more from Rebby before I even think about unvoting him. Mod, could we have a prod on Rebby, please?

[Yosarian2]

This experience thing is a red herring, anyone still discussing it is very suspect.

...why is that? B rob asked a question that some view to be a scum tell. Are you defending him?

[Yosarian2]

Still willing to change vote over to B-Rob. It's especally bad the way he's now lurking with a big bandwagon on him.

Still not going to take my vote of Rebby until he comes back, though. Especally as he's just been prodded.

[Yosarian2]

As I learned from my last mountainous game, you can't let lurkers live.

So then, why haven't we killed Rebby yet?

[Yosarian2]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with just posting a vote, at any point in the game. You can get interesting reactions that way. You should be ready to justify it if asked, but it's useful just to see who does ask.

Anyway, blue is not looking good right now, and it looks like rebby is going to be replaced soon anyway.

unvote:rebby

.

vote:bluemonick

[Yosarian2]

Im just back from japan. SO now, any reason on voting me except my absence?

Yeah, in your only post of the game, which was three weeks ago, you voted for yourself and lied.

In the last mountainous game we played together, you threw your hands up in the air and asked everyone to lynch you. I sense a trend.

Your post upon returning was entirely defensive and gave no indication whatsoever of your suspicions. Maybe you're still jet-lagged, maybe not, but please post us some suspicions asap, thanks.

Also, I'd like to hear what you plan to do differently in this mountainous game compared to last time. Why did town lose in Himalayan?

Actually, after Lordy answers that question, MBL, I'd like to hear what you think we should do differently this time.

[Yosarian2]

MBL: I disagree that we should lynch lurkers instead of people who seem scummy. Some people, like Anix, never say anything till the last minute yet they are town. Also, you're also assuming that we will reach 'later in the game'. Lurkers may die in nights. I rather we try to force lurkers to talk, and focus on lynching scum.

Of course it'd be better to force lurkers to talk. But if we can't make them really contribue, but they're posting just often enough so as to not get replaced, then we might as well lynch them. With no roles, I agree that we can't let anyone just lurk all game; if we get to late-game endgame, and have to choose then between lynching A, B, and C, all who have been lurking all game, we'll probably lose some key lynches.

Also, with no doc to make the scum avoid some targets, and no power roles for the scum to hunt down, I doubt they'll kill the lurkers for us.

[Yosarian2]

Im gonna ask for a replacement in this game, so someone else will be more active. This is my last post from me here.

Well, that's unfortunate

Why is that unfortunate? Do you think bluemonick's replacement is less likely to destract attention away from you? Or are you sad your scumbuddy is leaving?

Because, no offense to bluemonick intended, but if he's in too many games at the moment to be able to post much real content in this one (or in any of them, from what I've seen), it probably helps the town if we get a more active replacement to take over his role. However, it would quite possibly hurt you personally, if he gets replaced by someone who can defend himself better then bluemonick can, as bluemonick is the second biggest bandwagon after you at the moment I believe.

[Yosarian2]

I think you have to be willing to lynch lurkers. If they can be replaced, that's great; if you can pressure them to start posting, great. If they post just often enough to not be replaced, but refuse to post any actual content, and can't be pressured into changing their behavior, then the town probably has to lynch then unless someone else is more suspicious, of course. I don't think the town really has a choice in that situation.

[Yosarian2]

#3, what exactly are you trying to say in this bolded part? I'm not being very aggressive towards bluemonick. I don't have to depend on his wagon. I might be wrong, but I honestly don't think there are enough people who think I'm scummy enough to lynch me.

Right now, you're still the number one bandwagon. I think that the best chance of you not being lynched today was that bluemonick got himself lynched instead (he's the number 2 bandwagon, and from what I've seen in other games, has a lot of trouble defending himself effectivly). So I think that if bluemonick is replaced by someone more effective it'd probably make it more likely you'll be lynched. Which was why I found it interesting you thought it was a shame he was getting replaced.

[Yosarian2]

If we hit a deadline, I'll probably vote for B Rob. FYI.

Until then, though, still want to hear from MMOD, Rebby's replacement.

[Yosarian2]

I don't really think MMOD's mistake is especally scummy at the moment. I almost made the same mistake back in the very start of the game; I looked at my PM, looked at Primate's joking cop claim in the pre-day one confusion, and almost fell for it, completely forgetting the theme of this game for a minute. Anyway, I think that mistake is about equally likely to be made if your pm said townie or if your pm said mafia, so I don't think it's worth persuing right now.

I'm thinking I'm suspicious of Romulus right now; let me go back and re-read his posts real quick, and then I might have a vote.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, Romanus, here's a question for you.

Why did you go from this:

Calling the subject he brought up a red herring is hardly defending him. I am doing the same thing other are, calling him on even bringing it up, because it is a red herring. The debate on that subject is useless, debate about B rob bringing it up is not useless.

If I could figure out the

VOTE COUNT

I might even put a vote on B rob.

Turning the town to debating a useless and confusing topic is a great way to get people voting for things other than the fact they believe someone is scum.

I hope that helps Yosarian2

to this

B rob, those are very good points, I don't like bluemonick either. So,

UNVOTE; VOTE: Bluemonick

?

I thought you were defending B Rob, and then you quickly clarified your statement, said you didn't trust B Rob, and said you might actually vote him once you saw a vote count. However, you never did vote for him, never even mentioned him again, and in fact actually followed him in voting bluemonick only 5 days later.

I'm starting to suspect that b rob and romanus might be scum partners; when i accused romanus of defending b rob, he suddenly turned around and attacked him, in kind of a half-harted way, but it was a short one-shot thing he never went back to or followed up with a vote. Between the two of them, I think romanus is the more suspicious at the moment, so I'm going to

unvote

vote:romanus

[Yosarian2]

EBWODP

I looked at my PM, looked at Primate's joking cop claim in the pre-day one confusion, and almost fell for it, completely forgetting the theme of this game for a minute.

If Yos is scum, Stevie is.

...how does that follow, again? Not that it's really relevent, but I'm curious as to your logic.

[Yosarian2]

Ak, ok. Just wanted to see if you had a logical basis for that.

But yeah...it was kind of funny. I was just glad that I didn't have time to post right after you made that post, or I would have made a real fool of myself. I had completly forgot about the game premise at that moment in time, I was just thinking that I was a townie in a new york game.

[Yosarian2]

Ahhh...hate to break it to ya Scotty but thats the way I play my Mafia games. I sit back and watch for the first couple of days until the numbers diwndle down. Keeps my head out of the firing line of the Mafia usually.

That's terrible stratagy, in any game, especally if you're a townie.

If you're a townie, then "keeping your head out of the firing line" is completly irrelevent, because if the scum dosn't kill you, they'll kill another good guy.

All a townie can do is to post and try to both find out scum and show that they are not scum by the way they post. If you lurk, especally in this game, you WILL be lynched sooner or later. Take a look at hymalayn mafia; ALL the lurkers were lynched before the end of the game, and that arguabuly was one of the reasons the town lost. If the town has nothing else to go on, the town will lynch and should lynch the person who's not posting over the person who is posting, all else being equal.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, the reason for all of the stuff you brought up is because I want people to answer questions, if I feel the need to push a point I will, if not, I move on. It could be that I just changed my mind. Also, just because I believe someone is scummy doesn't mean his arguments are bad, especially since I don't know that he's scum.

Well, first of all, if I think someone is probable scum I'll never follow their lead, no matter how much sense they seem to be making.

Anyway, you still haven't really answered my question. If you were suspicious of B Rob, why did you never even mention him again? If you're being a "rouge investigator" and you thought B Rob was scummy, why did you never really ask B Rob any questions at all, or attack him in any way except when I accused you of defending him, or do anything that seems intended to get a reaction or get information from him?

Or are you saying you changed your mind about B Rob? That vauge "it could be I changed my mind" statement needs to be clarified. If you changed your mind about him, if you went from thinking he was suspicious to thinking he was more likely to be town, when did you change your mind, and why?

[Yosarian2]

Deadlines approaching

It is? I was under the impression that we won't hit a deadline until people stop posting meaningful posts.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah; it's spelled out in the first post. 24 hours without a meaningfull post=day ends.

Mod

, what are the deadline rules at lynch? Is 50% of a lynch enough at deadline?

If so, we should already be over that, as by my rough count there's about 8 votes on him at the moment.

[Yosarian2]

Well, we kind of do have a deadline, spectrumvoid. Once no one posts anything relevent for 24 hours, the day ends. So I'm happy we've got as many votes on bob as we do right now, because if a deadline does hit, it'll hit suddenly, and I'd much rather have B Rob lynch at that point then a no lynch. (Assuming that 50% of a lynch is lynch at deadline, anyway.)

That being said, we're in a good place now, and (again, so long as those are the deadline rules) there's absolutly no rush to lynch anyone right now. So, if you want to start discussing something else, this is the time to do so. Who do you think we should lynch, spectrumvoid?

[Yosarian2]

Sure, that looks like a good place to put some pressure and see what happens. I don't like his few posts.

unvote

vote:Lordy

.

Just so long as we always have at least 6 votes on someone, so we don't get a no-lynch in case of deadline.

[Yosarian2]

A bit opportunistic? Like Yos seems to be right now?

(shrug) I want Lordy to feel some real pressure to post and such, and my vote on Romulas didn't really likely to accomplish any more then it already had as far as creating discussion or pressure. Might as well put my vote to good use, as that's the only weapon any of us have this game.

[Yosarian2]

I do feel like my vote is of no use where it is, but I don't want to be accused of vote hopping.

General rule of thumb: if you are protown and think a move is pro-town, then do it, and just be prepared to explain it if someone has a problem with it. If you think your vote would be better somewhere else, then put it there.

Whenever someone says "I would do X, but I don't want to look like...", I think that means they're more worried about how they look then about helping the town, which makes me more suspicious of them, as the main concern of a scum in a game like this is to not get lynched, and while good guys also want to not get lynched, it's not their highest priority.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...didn't you just call me opportunistic for doing that yesterday, Mariyta?

[Yosarian2]

Ok, Romanus, here's a question for you.

Why did you go from this:

Calling the subject he brought up a red herring is hardly defending him. I am doing the same thing other are, calling him on even bringing it up, because it is a red herring. The debate on that subject is useless, debate about B rob bringing it up is not useless.

If I could figure out the

VOTE COUNT

I might even put a vote on B rob.

Turning the town to debating a useless and confusing topic is a great way to get people voting for things other than the fact they believe someone is scum.

I hope that helps Yosarian2

to this

B rob, those are very good points, I don't like bluemonick either. So,

UNVOTE; VOTE: Bluemonick

?

I thought you were defending B Rob, and then you quickly clarified your statement, said you didn't trust B Rob, and said you might actually vote him once you saw a vote count. However, you never did vote for him, never even mentioned him again, and in fact actually followed him in voting bluemonick only 5 days later.

I'm starting to suspect that b rob and romanus might be scum partners; when i accused romanus of defending b rob, he suddenly turned around and attacked him, in kind of a half-harted way, but it was a short one-shot thing he never went back to or followed up with a vote. Between the two of them, I think romanus is the more suspicious at the moment, so I'm going to

unvote

vote:romanus

I don't like this at all. This is an attack on the most immediately vulnerable player and an attempt to tie a long-term vulnerable player to him. The more I think about it the less I like it.

What do you mean by "vulnerable" player? Do you mean "likely to be lynched today"? Well, that's true, you an Romulas both look like people who could get lynched today, but a better way to say that would be that you are both "scummy looking players" at the moment.

So, what you are basically saying is that I was trying to see if there was a possible tie between two players who both were scummy looking players.
And that is basically true; I noticed some posts of Romulas that didn't seem to fit with each other, and I attacked him for it because it seemed possible that they represented a link to another player I consider to be scummy looking. He had decent responses to my questions and to other attacks against him; not great, but decent enough to move Romulas back to 2 or 3 on my list of suspicious players instead of 1.

[Yosarian2]

It just seems convinient that two of your top suspects are linked in your mind. I am, of course, going to deny that such a link exists.

Also, do you really want to set this up? If Romanus is scum and he's lynched first, what do you expect will happen?

I think that if he's scum, then based on his responses to my accusations I may be better able to figure out tommorow if you're his partner or not.

[Yosarian2]

It just seems convinient that two of your top suspects are linked in your mind. I am, of course, going to deny that such a link exists.

Also, do you really want to set this up? If Romanus is scum and he's lynched first, what do you expect will happen?

Also, what exactally are you accusing me of here? First you accused me of "targeting vulnerable people", and now you seem worried that Romanus might be scum. Which is it that you're accsuing me of? Am I scum trying to get vulnerable people lynched, or am I attacking someone who is scum?