Mafia 52: Back to the Basics - Abandoned!

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Is it day already? Are we starting in day or night?

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Don't do it yet. Because the mod hasn't even said whether the game has started. I thought most mods lock the thread before all the confirmations are in.

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Are you going to consider the votes on page 1?

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random

vote: mariyta

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Random

vote: StevieT92

Because T92 is the brand of my calculator, and I hate maths.

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unvote, vote: B Rob

What's with this Primate bandwagon anyway?

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Hi guys, im claiming cop right now
I got a guilty result on myself.

Vote Lordy

I don't get it. Was it a joke?

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Fritzler what's with the post flood??? FOS: everybody who's still on the Primate wagon.

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Erm... my nick is spectrumvoid. You mispelled it twice.

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I have no idea who's better than who in this game So I guess I'm going on my gut for now.

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This is my first big game (not counting the one where I died straight away within 2 pages). Is it normal for some people to poof/disappear/lurk?

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I'd say pressure voting is very important in this game, since we have no power roles like cop, so we have to decide who to lynch solely on how people react. So if there's a vote on person A , their reactions/defensiveness will be very important for us to judge if they're scum. Axelrod, explain that comment?

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What's a street cred? B Rod I find it interesting that you only 'concede' that you made silly mistakes after someone pointed them out. If no one picked it up... would you have used what you said earlier to continue to confuse us?

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I'll be away for 2 days because I'm very busy right now (I'm entering the uni, so I have to spend a lot of time meeting teachers, bidding for modules, going for orientation and stuff). I haven't read what's been going on since my last post, but I'll review it when I'm back.

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I'm back. Want vote count too.

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Fritzler... please stop it. I'll get permanently banned from this entire site if my mom sees it. My vote stays where it is, nothing else to add.

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*yawn* Just posted to say I'm around. Nothing to respond to.

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Voting is good. It's puts pressure on lurkers to speak up and say something. But yup, no lynching. BM, okay, while yes, lurking does not equal mafia, it definitely doesn't help town. If you're taking on too many games, and you can't be committed to so many, I suggest you ask for a replacement.

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Nah, no one can be confirmed protown this game. Because there isn't a cop.

Ace: So you're used to bandwagoning mafia, so you voted? That's not very logical. See, if you're a townie, and you think mafia will bandwagon, won't you be even more careful with your vote, because the mafia may just bandwagon on your vote?

Axel: Just to add on to what Romaus said, jumping in to defend another person may seem scummy as it may make the 2 of you seem like scum partners. I'm not saying this is what I believe at the moment, it's just a gameplaying tip that I cribbed from wiki.

MBL: I disagree that we should lynch lurkers instead of people who seem scummy. Some people, like Anix, never say anything till the last minute yet they are town. Also, you're also assuming that we will reach 'later in the game'. Lurkers may die in nights. I rather we try to force lurkers to talk, and focus on lynching scum.

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Wow.

FoS: MBL

. That's a horrible idea. Early on, you lynch people who do scummy things. Period. Mountainous or not, the basis of the game is set up by recognizing voting patterns and play preferences. If we go lurker-hunting from the start, we might catch one scum among the batch, but we'll basically be trading lurkertownies for helpfultownies. Lurkers can be forced to talk without a "let's cull off all the lurkers first" plan. You lynch the people who are scummy, you find some scum, then you look at who gives preference where. Read the subtext in people's posts. Look for the underlying connections. All of this takes *time*. If we spend our first 3-4 days killing off lurkers instead of scummy players, we won't have that time.

Wow you said everything that I wanted to say and couldn't put words to. Agree 100%.

About the unknown alignment thing, I generally don't reveal much too. (I guess I'm one of the 'other players' you mentioned). Actually, I was under suspicion in a couple of games because they thought I was posting fluff. And I was townie, just watching a couple of scum fake-battle each other. I guess we'll have to wait for something big to happen (like when we're close to a lynch), then wait for Fritz to post before lynching, then discuss his alignment. I know it sounds like a long shot, but I think we should try to keep townies alive.

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Shucks I forgot to do this in my earlier post.

unvote

Mod can we please have a votecount? I'm used to it at the top of every page, which is why I forgot. Bye BLM.

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I keep getting the 'overloaded' webpage (the yellow and grey one). Could that be the reason for the inactivity?

With the deadline in place, I guess I have to change my stance on lurkers. Alright, if we have to, I'm willing to lynch lurkers to get this game going. Really tired because of RL stuff, post more tomorrow.

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Oh, forgot to mentioned that I have my account back, thanks to Jeep.

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Mod: votecount please?

I'll wait for rebby's replacement.

Not sure what to think of Stevie's post. Yes, the game is stagnant, but it doesn't mean we should rush into lynching.

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I'm going to cut MMOD some slack. Seriously, if he was mafia, would he even be talking about ablities? As if would he say: yup, my ability is to kill every night. Also, I think it's true that he asked that question without reading anything. If he'd read, he would've known that he wasn't in a pressure situation.

Romanus: You weirdo. You think people who don't give reasons are scummy, then you go and do it yourself (referring to your latest vote.) Bah!

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Good posting Yos and sotty7.

I agree with Primate, I believe that lynching someone other MMOD would give us more info the next day. I think info gathering is extremely important this, especially since we have no cop. However, if he does something scummy after this he will of course be put in the hot seat again.

Ace: yes, you can do that in a normal game. But this is mafia with only mafia and townie. Lurkers have to be forced to say something. And yes, it saves you from mafia, but lurking makes you seem suspicious to town, so you're more likely to get yourself lynched. Lying low to stay alive during nights is really selfish behaviour. The faster we get discussion from everybody, the more likely we catch scum, and we will ALL stay alive.

I'm waiting for Romanus to respond to Yos's question.

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Either B Rob or Romanus. I haven't decided which. I see the 2 of them as being more scummy than Stevie. I need to hear more from B Rob before I decide.

Glad to hear that Ace.

Romanus: I can't help but notice that being rogue-investigatorish is your usual playing style. I usually don't take other games into account, but I've been playing in too many games with you recently. And you've been suspected as scum for most of them, so it might be a good idea to change your style. (To the rest: this doesn't mean that I'm excusing his vote-hopping etc, I still suspect him as scum, but I need to hear from B Rob before deciding which is more scummy.)

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I thought there's only a deadline if there's no discussion?

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Well, I think it's unreasonable and illogical to have a deadline, now that people have started discussing. FOS: lordy, ace, primate. That was a fast bandwagon.

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Ok, Romanus, here's a question for you.

Why did you go from this:

Calling the subject he brought up a red herring is hardly defending him. I am doing the same thing other are, calling him on even bringing it up, because it is a red herring. The debate on that subject is useless, debate about B rob bringing it up is not useless.

to this

B rob, those are very good points, I don't like bluemonick either.

I thought you were defending B Rob, and then you quickly clarified your statement, said you didn't trust B Rob, and said you might actually vote him once you saw a vote count. However, you never did vote for him, never even mentioned him again, and in fact actually followed him in voting bluemonick only 5 days later.

I'm starting to suspect that b rob and romanus might be scum partners; when i accused romanus of defending b rob, he suddenly turned around and attacked him, in kind of a half-harted way, but it was a short one-shot thing he never went back to or followed up with a vote.

vote: Romanus.

I don't see how his response to this post makes him seem less scummy. I'll explain in greater detail if anyone wants me to.

Oh I didn't know we had a deadline. I FOSed everyone on the BRob bandwagon because they voted without a reason.

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Lordy is a bit of a lurker, for one, he is in a weird time zone, but from my past game with him, we need to force some talk out of him to get any kind of read.

I'm not sure if I've pointed this out before in this game, but I'm in the same time zone as Lordy. In fact, we're in the same country. So I don't see how time zone is an excuse. Yes, I've not been as active as most people here since I'm usually sleeping when major discussion takes place, but I'm not a lurker either. Lordy needs to speak more, but I think there're enough pressure votes on him already to get him to say something.

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Hey Stevie... care to explain your last post?

B Rob. You stayed away from mafia from a while, and yet you've been following this game?

I'd love to add another vote to lordy, but he's too close to lynch now.

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I agree. We've wasted a day.

Mod

: maybe we could get future inactive players replaced instead?

I'm going with

vote: B Rob

as a service to the late Yos2.

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Yos is a pretty skilled player (I've played/am playing with him) so it stands to reason the mafia killed him for his skill. My vote stays.

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Because he's skilled, mafia would be scared of him. So he died. Since he picked out B Rob, I'm going with it. Of course, if BR comes up with a good defence, I'll unvote.

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I don't get why people suspect her either, anyone care to explain? My vote on B Rob was there because of the suspicions yesterday too, not just because of what Yos said. i've said this before: if B Rob presents an adequate defence to yesterday's accusations, I will of course unvote.

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Are Glork and mariyta related in RL? B Rob how about trying to defend yourself? Then I'll think about unvoting.

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Does Fritzler always play like that?

Romanus: I see nothing wrong with keeping a vote on a person who I think is scummy. And with removing my vote if I change my mind because of his defence, or if someone else turns up more scummy.

Mod: Are we going to have the lurkers replaced?

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My reasons:

1) lurking. he claimed he followed the game, but didn't participate. Also he was under some heat.

2) wagoned on primate. he knew he was bandwagoning. and his quick departure of the bandwagon.

3) also refer to primate's post 172. Glork's post 193 about street cred.

4) my old post: only concede you made silly mistakes after someone pointed them out. If no one picked it up... would you have used what you said earlier to continue to confuse us?

5) Even if I disregard the lurking, B Rob himself has admitted that his actions with regards to primate were weird.

6) What I said wrt Yos2.

I went back to do a reread. I'm currently also looking at Romanus and lordy.

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The only thing you said with regards to the Primate wagon was that you didn't know what you were doing (a rough paraphrase), which was 5. I don't consider that as a good defense. Yes, you did address your lurkiness but that doesn't disprove the fact that you did lurk. I don't get why 4 is WIFOM, but that wasn't the main reason for me to

Romanus: If I was scum, would I be so blatently pushing for a B Rob lynch? Shouldn't I be hopping on bandwagons, making myself low-profile? Or going around accusing everyone to muddy the waters? You were investigatorish too, which is what I'm doing because I'm pro-town.

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I don't get the WIFOMness, but I understand what you said about the defensiveness. I can't really defend that, but i still maintain that it's more likely that scum not vote. Also, I am pushing for B Rob lynch, I'm not just letting my vote sit.

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Cool. Can someone summarise the reasons for the Stevie wagon? I know the reasons why people are voting for me and B Rob, but I'm not too clear about Stevie.

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While Stevie was accused of being 3rd on the wagon (3rd actually isn't that scummy to me, considering the number of people needed to lynch then), the people accusing him are doing the same thing.

I find more things wrong about the other accusations against him, but I'll give Stevie the chance to respond first lest people accuse me of feeding him with answers. Or if he has answered, I'll do a reread. (I honestly can't remember which, but I'll do a reread tomorrow.)

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Very good posting. I'm ashamed to say that I didn't pick up on most of it. *bashes head on wall*

unvote, vote Stevie92

While technically, I wanted to give Stevie a chance to explain himself, I think what he did warrants a vote. Also Stevie hasn't been around... I don't want to have a worthless kill again if we hit deadline.

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Huh? I was trying to get him to respond. Well, I could say B Rob is scummy B Rob is scummy 5 times in a row to push for his lynch, but I seriously don't think anyone would buy that. I always give people a chance to defend themselves, if they're active. Check out any game I've been in as evidence. That's the one thing that I'm consistent about in all my games.

About what I said about MMOD: Well, I could've said SINCE MMOD was mafia, but then I'm sure everyone will just jump on me asking how I knew he was for sure. And I didn't. In fact, I didn't even think he was scummy (refer to my post).

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Actually, I'm not playing in any games with Fritz or BJ or Anix or Mariyta ever again. Call it my blacklist.

If anyone wants to meta me, you can maybe take a look at some of my other mini games. It's a regular playstyle I use. (The other large ones I'm in have very different game mechanics so you can't compare with that.) Then again, I'm still pretty 'young' here so I don't have that many completed games with my alignment known. On a side-note, I personally don't agree with metagaming since I usually read a person wrong.

Hey Stevie, you could have chosen not to vote anyone, not vote B Rob.

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Spectrum is rushing 2 group projects and hasn't slept >3 hours for the past 2 days.

I like the metaphorical rear analogy. *waiting for stevie too*

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I'm busy yesterday, today and a couple more days. I promise to be back latest Sunday. Please don't replace me?

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*gives mari a cookie for reading the extremely long stevie post*

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I'm back, just give me a while to catch up on everything.

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Hm... I see nothing much has happened. My vote stays.

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Fritzler: what's Oh Snap?

(in case anyone's interested, my game count increased to 16. I love mafia!)

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Thanks for the clarification Fritz.

Nope, I have no idea why Stevie isn't dead yet. I thought he would be.

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Why do people keep voting saying I think he's scummy without giving a reason?

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10 to lynch I think. Since we have 20 alive.

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My bad. I just referred to the first post to get the numbers. This game has been so stagnant I just forgot.

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Who's not voting?

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I'd actually appreciate it if someone made a case on me. Because random people have been saying I'm scummy, and I'd like to know exactly what I did. I can't even defend myself until I know the reasons.

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I read Stevie's 'when I come up town' thing as a scummy play. That's usually a defence of the last resort, which implies that Stevie doesn't has anything else to add. Also acting like he's giving up isn't pro-townish.

Axelrod: Thanks for doing that. I'm really bad at going back to read stuff when the game keeps dragging/is stagnant.

Romanus was assuming that B Rob was protown and therefore that I was scum for pushing for his lynch. It wasn't me who made the assumption (Hence I addressed my post to him). I know it's pure wifom but I believe that mafia is basically a game of wifom anyway. Mafia essentially consists of picking up scum-tells that people give off, and to defend youself, you need to state what pro-town things you've done. That's basic wifom since you're saying that scum wouldn't do the same pro-town things, when no one knows how scum will play.

I read through the accusations against Stevie before Glork's post.

Here's what I actually thought of their accusations at time in brief (I'll elaborate if anyone wants me to, but it's old news):
MMOS thinks Stevie is scummy for choosing a lurker and not the rest. I don't think this is a scum tell because choosing a lurker and pressuring one of them to talk is more effective than applying pressure on all of them, which will be more spread out and hence less effective. Also I don't think voting a lurker is a scum-tell, it's more pro-townish because you're trying to get the game moving.

Glork thinks Stevie is playing follow the leader yet casting his net as wide as possible.
There's nothing wrong with trying to search out as many scum as possible, so I didn't understand Glork's point.

Glork accused Stevie on being the 3rd vote. I didn't think this was scummy because we're in a large game, not a c9 where 4 is lynch. (I said this is post 535).

I didn't post this at that time because I didn't want to give excuses to Stevie if he was scum (I'm assuming that everyone except myself is scum unless cop cleared, not just stevie). Note also that Stevie didn't respond.

Glork's post contained quite a few things that I'd missed (my comments and reasons in brackets): stevie calling primate a 'prime suspect' without reason (I generally don't keep track of early game stuff), that stevie didn't give a reason for his scum list (which I think is scummy unless the player is chamber), that stevie was 6th on the wagon for b rob, ( I actually remembered this one, but I kept thinking he was 3rd because of Glork's earlier post), and that Stevie quickly dropped the b rob push when nobody was going to quick lynch b rob (I knew that he had dropped b rob, but I didn't get the reasoning so I didn't think it was scummy till glork pointed it out.)

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I guess that's the reason why Stevie seems scummy in 100% of his games. But he has definitely turned up scummy in some of them.

Response to post 24: I was kidding... I thought it was obvious since this is a game with only mafia and townie. So I guess next time I'll lay it heavy on the sarcasm.

I've said everything I want to say on the Yos/B Rob issue.

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Why the heck are people so bent on misunderstanding what I say? My comment was in response to this post.

He likes to hear himself talk. He makes attempts at humor and doesn't really ever prod anyone in a manner that moves the game forward.

He's a distraction at best.

I was trying to tell MBL that just because he doesn't play well, which he doesn't in his games anyway, it doesn't mean he's just a distraction and he can't be scummy.

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Vis: you need to change the thread title.

Sprained my ankle, gah.

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vote: Glork

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Why are some people voting me? It'll be nice if there's something I can respond to. Mod, can have prods please?

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Go ahead. Hi lowell.

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Most important thing on front page: 24 hours without a meaningful post = random mod-kill = night.

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I don't know... but Coron died.

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1) Originally reason from Romanus: because of me pushing B Rob based on Yos. I have explained myself about this. Then Romanus again, then me again (around page 20-21.) Summary: I admit I made a mistake, because I over-believed Yos.

2) MBL's post 545. (about pushing B Rob to respond when I didn't give him anything.) My response is 547 (about me giving me people a chance to defend himself.)

3) Glork says 'there's no need to unvote someone if they respond well enough... I made sure everyone knew I'm undecided about B Rob.'

This accusation is weird. As I mentioned earlier (547), I was asking B Rob to respond. And when he did, I took a look at why I was voting him, and then I unvoted because I thought my reasoning wasn't strong enough. I think it's better for us if we know where everyone stands. I unvoted because I didn't want something like this: Well, I don't think you're that scummy anymore, but my vote stays on you. That's called changing my mind.

4) Mari's next post (549) mentioning me pushing B Rob to defend himself. (repetition of MBL's post 545, also earlier answered in 547.

5) Glork: I can get behind a spectrum lynch
6) Fritz: She's scum.

It's wrong to accuse me of not responding.

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Your vote had no reasoning behind it, so I didn't include it.

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Some considerations.

1) Both victims were townies, we have no cop here.
2) Your reasoning is correct.
3) It was a frame job.

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So basically you're just going to accuse me and not care about what I say? That's definitely not pro-townish.

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This is your post. Find me a reason from it.

vote: Glork

Vote: Spectrumvoid

Glrok's right, Stevie DID deserve it. His own actions got him lynched.

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Oh ****. Must be too tired. Okay, so your reason for voting me was because I voted for Glork. Well, Glork pushed the Stevie wagon, and was the initiator, so isn't it natural to question Glork? I didn't put any long detailed reason or anything, I just wanted Glork to respond.

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I'll do a read. I can't remember what happened.

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Read my sig.

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I also eagerly everyone who has promised to do rereads earlier than I have.

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I'm finally back after a horribly long absence. I was having some weird problems on MS.net logging in and posting (I was posting from the future), read the 2 threads devoted to my problems in the help forum for details. Thanks to those who have alerted people to my problems. I'll respond to everything tomorrow.

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Here. Giving up on this game if nothing happens. Vote count please?

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vote: SV

Looking this over, I think this is the best way to get the most info. I'm pretty sure some people think I'm scum, and others think I'm town. It's the best wagon I can think of to get information on town, as compared to the wagon on ace because some people voted for that one to get the game going.

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We might have to declare this game abandoned, or do something about replacements. I don't feel like posting anything content.

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It'll be nice to know how many people are here, and how many replacements we need. I'm not going to spend time reading 30 pages if this gets abandoned.

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Mod

Can you please prod the people who haven't checked in to see how many replacements we need and whether the game should continue?

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Do we still have a mod?

I'll suicide.

vote: SV

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I agree, since I'm in both. But judging from the last page, there's no interest in this game anymore.

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vanilla townie. townie in points too.