ny 157 ENDGAME RIP 2 KEVIN COSTNER (secret waterworld flavor

[I Am Innocent]

confirm

[I Am Innocent]

I do not like the idea of mass-claiming, and kondi's dayvig fake claim which brought out the most likely real day vig claim from salamence is earning my perma D1 vote if he is not day vig'd himself.

[I Am Innocent]

vote: kondi2424

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Furry, there are no protective roles. So a mass claim basically gets rid of confirmed town players that we could use in the end game.

Factor in an investigative role will likely be killed/blocked/etc, we lose information N1 that we could gain otherwise if we even waited until D2!

To kondi, the dayvig(s) are the most confirmed townie player(s) we have and you forced them out D1 without any protective players. That is scummy.

Salamence flopping around is starting to make me feel very uncomfortable. And should obv go 1st for vig shots. If he refuses, Natalie should shoot him because I take that as confirming his is scum.

Nobody shoots another player until that player has claimed.

ONCE AGAIN, MASSCLAIMING, ESP D1 IS A BAAAAAAAADDDDDDD IDEA!. We're not doing it.

[I Am Innocent]

Thats actually what im aiming for.

Role cop is not the strongest thing in the world but has potential to catch scum and clear other claimed only town PRs

.

Forcing out other roles is going to mean scum cant kill/block all of us, and there will be shots that get off.

Scum claiming their role is also good because it makes all the claimed town PRs all that more likely to actually be town, creating an even larger group of confirmed town.

Compounding that is that there is a high chance of scum PRs that we can pick up, and therefore can be caught, making scum have to suddenly deal with PR threats and with confirmed town threats.

Unless scum team is something like all RBers, massclaim is good. I would be stunned if scum had enough power to easily deal with a massclaim without letting at least a few PRs off the hook for a night, or being forced to leave both vigs alive for another day.

1st underlined: How does a rolecop differ between vanilla town/vanilla goon. Or Town Neighborizer/Scum Neighborizer. Or Town Roleblocker/Scum Roleblocker. Or dare I say, Town RoleCop/Scum Rolecop. IT DOESN'T. So clearing other claimed town PR's IS NOT TRUE.

2nd underlined: But Scum can pick the most important roles to kill/block. With no information, they are purely guessing and more powers (particularly the better powers) are likely to go through.

3rd underlined: See the 1st underlined. The setup is as it is to devalue a rolecop. Make it easier for scum to fake claim....for instance, I could see a Scum Rolecop asking for a mass claim under the pretense that he is a Town Rolecop. The only person he'd have to worry about is the cop, and with no protective roles, heck you, I mean he/she could snuff them out pretty easy, don't you think???

If it isn't clear, I'd suspect that one of our rolecops is likely a scum rolecop, and it is most likely Furry.

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No, kondi is useful, but don't shoot him now.

This would make more sense if you had said "No, kondi is useless, but don't shoot him now."

Why did you phrase it that way?

Is it me, or did Kondi's posting drop way off after the vigs used their shots...

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We need to finish massclaiming ASAP.

Then lynch one of IAI, scooby, maybe DMS, maybe Trollie.

What is your case against me? Is it the fact I do not want a massclaim (which is protown as I have just shown).

Or was it my insistence to the vigs that they get a claim 1st before shooting their victims, which they ignored and cost us a town power player.

Go on, I'm waiting. Let's hear it.

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@scooby - Why is massclaim scummy? Thats one that no one ever answers apart from "because it is", so I would like to see how you think it would be when we already have two confirmed town and a third of the game hardclaimed.

massclaim is still the right solution as it rapidly increases the strength of just about every role we could feasably have at this point. Just because very few actually realize that in the current site meta of PR heavy games its a good thing doesnt mean that it isnt a good thing. Really with two confirmed town already putting everything out there early will just ratchet up the strength of just about every town PR there is.

No one has ever said why its bad, just that they think its bad because 'it is'.

Why have you lied twice now:

Furry, there are no protective roles. So a mass claim basically gets rid of confirmed town players that we could use in the end game.

Factor in an investigative role will likely be killed/blocked/etc, we lose information N1 that we could gain otherwise if we even waited until D2!

To kondi, the dayvig(s) are the most confirmed townie player(s) we have and you forced them out D1 without any protective players. That is scummy.

It's my turn to lie. I said kondi had my perma D1 vote and I am now backing off that statement.

unvote: Kondi
vote: Furry

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VOTE: IAI You called?

I'm out of town but have phone access. That probably doesn't mean anything but slower posting for this game.

Still happy you forced our two vigs out into the open? We have two dead town, and soon to be two dead confirmed town with no protective roles to save them.

@IAI - If you need me to be explicit

1) You vote kondi for doing something that is pro-town in getting the vigs to claim early. The earlier they claim the more we can streamline what we actually do here.
2) You take an "im not moving" stance while ignoring what are some semi-serious votes going around, and completely ignoring anything related to who actually should be vigged.
3) You actually show no interest in lynching me until it appears to become an option. Why would town care at all if they think its an option or not and want to see some support? Scum I can see being afraid of going for a power player.

1) Read my line above and answer the same question too. Specifically, how it is pro-town what was done.
1 continued) The later they claim, the closer to endgame they make it (this is good to have confirmed town at the endgame). Also, their shots wouldn't have been so random. Which is also good/protown. You can claim all you want that "is pro-town in getting the vigs to claim early", but that doesn't make it true.
2) Mine was a very serious vote. Scum is pushing for the massclaim and/or vigs to be outted. At least one of you or kondi are scum, that I am confident of.
2 continued) Caught a lie in there (actually two). I wanted kondi vig'd (see 34), but I also mentioned that if Salamence did not fire a shot, that Natalie should shoot him (see 166). So saying I completely ignored it is yet another lie to chalk up to you.
3) No, I supported your lynch when two people claimed rolecop and one of them was you. I already expressed my doubts of two town rolecops, so the fact you went first gives more credence to the counterclaim by the real town rolecop imo. But nice try.

1st underlined: How does a rolecop differ between vanilla town/vanilla goon. Or Town Neighborizer/Scum Neighborizer. Or Town Roleblocker/Scum Roleblocker. Or dare I say, Town RoleCop/Scum Rolecop. IT DOESN'T. So clearing other claimed town PR's IS NOT TRUE.

Other PRs hun. I didnt think that I would need to hold your hand but apparently I do if you are going to try and make anything I say into a scumtell. That part of why I want a claim. Those roles get caught if they claim through standard actions, so if they get claimed scum are caught or its a real claim that I know not to touch.

So the bookie and godfather? Vs duplicates for the rolecop/roleblocker/neighborizer/vanilla goon? So mass claiming for two power roles, which may or may not be in the game? No, it is a bad decision and any talk otherwise is just scummy.

2nd underlined: But Scum can pick the most important roles to kill/block. With no information, they are purely guessing and more powers (particularly the better powers) are likely to go through.

Most important role is day vig. If massclaim buys them a few days its worth it. You know... 100% confirmed town roles that we are keeping alive with threats of other stuff?

100% AGREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED.

And you and kondi with your mass claiming and fake day vig killed them off. There is 0 chance with no protective roles that they make it to the end game. So why do you keep saying it is pro-town to out them D1, forcing random shots with little information prior to them getting snuffed out?!?!?

3rd underlined: See the 1st underlined. The setup is as it is to devalue a rolecop. Make it easier for scum to fake claim....for instance, I could see a Scum Rolecop asking for a mass claim under the pretense that he is a Town Rolecop. The only person he'd have to worry about is the cop, and with no protective roles, heck you, I mean he/she could snuff them out pretty easy, don't you think???

Even if you want to aruge all scum are town/scum roles, the only way rolecop is weak is if they all claim it AND there are not town only roles.

Town only roles will get snuffed out with no protection. I only hope the more I say it the more you either agree or just confirm you are Scum already.

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Furry, will you lynch Kondi? He has claimed VT and you already said that was your preference D1?

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I mean 4 mafia-15 town.

How do you know there is 4 mafia?

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I agree with ROFL's top 3 in 425.

I disagree that the Hayker wagon was an attempt to save the rolecop. I think the 4 mafia thing caught alot of our eyes, but for me it was the additional attempt to save a teammate (Furry)/cause a mislynch (I was the leading wagon at the time). Especially love the playing both sides while defending: "I think Furry's scum, but we shouldn't lynch him/her yet."

It is interesting that once Hayker made known that 4 scum is mentioned in the scum role, that codex immediately jumped off.

Top 3, bundled in a nice package. Love that 2 of them are pushing the Scooby lynch as an alternative. Love the thought process that scum Scooby would box himself in D1 by giving 8 town reads out of 15 players, lol!

@Kondi, why haven't you answered my question yet? Do you regret the whole fake vig thing now that you have seen it played out?

NS, I got:
Hayker 6
Furry 4
scooby 2
inte 1
drmyshotgun 1
petapan 1

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@mod, can you include the deadline in your vote count updates?

Looks like we have about 2.5 days until the deadline. At this point, I am not willing to vote outside of Furry, Hayker, CodeX, except to avoid a no lynch.

Someone brought up a good pt that a watcher, if we have one, should probably be used on one of the two confirmed town. I agree with this notion.

Hayker, as someone not on your wagon but willing to lynch you, I too am asking for a claim.

@ CodeX, inte, onceandforever, if you had to pick between Furry and Hayker right now, where would your vote go?

@ Hayker, is there a reason you continue to be the only vote on inte? Who else do you suspect as scum?

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@Furry, you came after me for being against mass claiming. Why did you never go after Hayker?

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@Hayker, did your alt post in another game on Wednesday? Why are you avoiding posting in here when you are this close to a lynch and there were calls for a claim?

With less than 40 hours, I'll move my vote.

unvote Furry
vote Hayker

L-2 for those not keeping track at home.

My other top 3 remain Furry, CodeX, Kondi

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cop =/= rolecop

Right. Cop is more valuable in this setup. And Rolecop can be faked, as both scum/town can have them.

codex last post is really bad though. I would lynch (in order) rofl, codex, inte.

So stick your teammate in the middle of your list. Your "codex is lynchable" vote lasted how many hours, lol? (failed) Distancing for the win???

Im not voing hayker today period, will let this go to no lynch before I do that.

Town would never ever ever do this without a 100% alignment check on a player. With 3 'cops' claimed, town Furry should/would know better.

unvote Hayker
vote Furry

That is 5 votes vs 5 votes. Hoping both are scum, but if only one is, these next few votes should be telling.

With 14 hrs or so to go, anyone not on one of these wagons ought to get on one of these wagons.

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w/e is right.

interesting way for my "scumbuddy" to act when Furry and I were the top wagons. Protecting "town role cop Furry" as you believe, and leaving "scumbuddy me", as you believe, out to dry:

I think the Furry wagon should be derailed guys and here is why. Furry will likely be killed eventually if s/he is town due to powerole nature. If s/he stays alive a long time, it will make more sense to lynch him later for likely being mafia. I personally do find how he orchastrated the massclaim scummy with the closest thing to a protective role being a watcher, which we may or may not have. It will allows us a few days of confirmed townies, but not much more. It was quite a guess to assume this game is extremly power role heavy, though I have fallen out of this site's meta recently. I mean 4 mafia-15 town. That is quite a few mislynches given to us. I'm going to iso read everyone and give a list of stances.

We truly should not claim any more roles today to keep them safe. Thers no need to even soft claim them for now.

And two flaws with "is probably a town-tell because lmao if u think as scum he doesnt act in self-preservation + doesnt want to lynch a friggin cop"

1) if their is a no lynch, which is what I was suggesting was scummy and what Furry was threatening to do, it IS self-preservation
2) you dismiss the fact that hayker is not "a friggin cop" but Furry's teammate. Which is also not a town tell in that case, it is called protecting your buddy.

But keep spewing your crap. I find it amusing at the very least.

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gonna need results from hayker and inte

inte?

vote Hayker

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Everyone voting Kondi, I want to know if you think:

1) Hayker is scum or town
2) OAFE is scum or town
3) one of Hayker and OAFE is scum, both are scum, both are town

I think either scum has 0 roleblockers, and OAFE is scum rolecop pretending to be blocked, or scum has a roleblocker and town OAFE was roleblocked and Hayker is pretending to be cop. (Or they both could be scum, but I find that unlikely too).

But both being town seems very doubtful. There is no reason outside of WIFOM that scum would block the rolecop over the reg cop.

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I'm here and I still think Hayker needs to go. Yes the bookie is something I had not thought about, and if Kondi or Hayker are town it could be well why the scum killed off who they did to try to lead us to a mislynch*. Still, I think scum was playing with fire by letting a real cop 1) live & 2) have an investigation over a rolecop. So I can't believe it....the cop claim, and if I am right, and Hayker flips town, it should lead to a lot of information from the D1 wagons of Furry vs Hayker.

*the fact I have not gotten one vote D2 when I pushed Furry hard D1 and Peta, the NK choice, was sure I was scum makes me wonder about the validity of a bookie. I would have been a great target D2 for that case, and yet it has never happened. In fact, Kondi has me as one of his top town choices, which makes even less sense if he is scum.

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codex, why would OAFE counterclaim a real rolecop if he was a fake?

Which cop is more likely to be lying? The one that CC'd a real rolecop, or the one who claimed under threat of being lynched?

Factor that with how fast the Furry wagon took off when my vote on Furry pushed it to a 5 - 5 tie between Furry/Hayker, I have trouble seeing how anyone believes Hayker over OAFE at this point.

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bringing up the possibility of a bookie was just a clever way to scare people away from lynching kondi. scum misdirection.

So you don't believe there is a bookie, then why did scum leave Hayker alive then and not block him?

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unvote Hayker
vote Furry

That is 5 votes vs 5 votes. Hoping both are scum, but if only one is, these next few votes should be telling.

Indeed. Very telling ...

Rofl is scum.
IAI is scum.
Scooby is scum.

Still meh about Tammy.

NS is town. Yeah I know .......

So you think kondi is town, which if there was a bookie this game, he seems like the target yesterday. Yet I pushed hard for Hayker all yesterday, Scooby did as well, and yet NS who voted Kondi (and Furry D1) is town.

Please explain.

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I know to be Town - IAI, Natalie, Toog
Likely Town - OAFE, Tammy, kondi, Scooby

3 Scum in Nobody Special, ROFL, codex, drmyshotgun

My initial guess is codex is the town in the group.

Will do some iso's/rereadings prior to placing my vote.

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Please consider my vote on ROFL for claiming purposes. I really don't want to see a player at L-1 this early in the day.

[I Am Innocent]

Scum lost the game when rolf didn't bus hayker and became obvious scum

I still can't believe you were going to lynch kondi instead of him.

Scum should have bus'd Hayker. Both D1, and especially D2.

Good game all and thank Kanye for modding and allowing me to play.

PS - I told you Natalie would be a good exception, her reads were very good this game!