NY 154: Return to Boring Town - Game Over

[Toogeloo]

Umm, wtf? Are we really out of RVS that quick?

VOTE: Salamence

gg, thanks for playing.

I'm good with this. Salamence looking for anything to participate and comes up short.

Vote: Salamence

[Toogeloo]

Do we still not have confirms on both Bunnylover and Pine? Pine must be a bigger name than Bunnylover too considering 2 people have now voted him for not confirming but not mentioned Bunny at all.

[Toogeloo]

Sorry guys, I guess my sarcasm detector wasn't on for the RVS question :/

The way you said it in no way sounded as if you were trying to be sarcastic...

Umm, wtf? Are we really out of RVS that quick?

That has almost no hint of sarcasm in it at all.

[Toogeloo]

Viscera, what was your thought process on choosing IaI for your kill?

[Toogeloo]

I originally suspected the possibility of a SK VE, which is why asked for his thought process in choosing IaI. But his play today has pushed that thought from my mind. He is too prominent and with a dead Tracker, I don't see a motivation to bring attention to himself as third party. I'd say VE is more likely town than third party.

Adding to my town reads, Velazanth is at the top. I also like nhammen, McStab, and mcqueen (in most like to a little less sure).

[Toogeloo]

Adding to my town reads, Velazanth is at the top.

what exactly in either of his posts do you find so town that he is your top town read?

Gut, but he's had the exact same reaction to my current suspicions that I have had.

[Toogeloo]

Toon Fighter played very intermittently as he is now as my Mason Partner in another game long ago. He was a rather useless lump even as confirmed. This is my second game with him, and he is exhibiting the same behavior. This makes me sad.

[Toogeloo]

so why exactly are you willing to lynch someone you admit is likely Town?

Now who's straw manning? Toon said he didn't care if he was scum or town... he never admitted to calling Sal "likely town."

[Toogeloo]

That's not claiming someone "likely town" though.

[Toogeloo]

Ummm... I'd like you to explain the difference between "likely town" and "leaning town" for me please.

Toon has argued that Sal has been scummy up until a few posts before he started making some townish comments. ie. Sal was certainly scummy, but the his last few posts have given a town vibe. Hence the reason he stated he didn't care if he was scum or town anymore at that point.

If you look at the post count, Salamance has over double the posts of the next highest poster. Basically, the way I see it, Salamance has been scummy from the start of the game, but he's been talking so much that eventually he's bound to say something that will come off townish, and the more he talks, the more likely he will hit some form of AoE or cause some form of doubt to the people reading. Even MoI has gone through the gamut of Salamance reads from scummy to defending him.

[Toogeloo]

You buddies with TF?

If I claimed Mason with someone, would it matter? While it would be hilarious to be a Mason with Toon again, it is not the case this game.

[Toogeloo]

Vel's right though. Scum, knowing their power is under heavy scrutiny and a very likely lynch, will try to be on the lynch to gain town cred and distance themselves from someone dead in the water.

[Toogeloo]

I mean sure, they will try to divert attention to other players in hopes something else sticks, but I haven't seen a scum team at all play so passively hoping town will shoot itself in the foot on it's own and not be a part of their own team member's lynch at the same time.

[Toogeloo]

Just want to say I am 0-2 in Lylo as town now.

One was my fault and the other was not.

So yeah, not so hot in LyLo.

Are you trying to get yourself lynched?

No, that was in response to "Sala should not be allowed to endgame"

He's making the point that you are saying really stupid stuff, I think we understood you were referring to Vel's comment.

@Mod

: requesting prod/replace of Tangion. He hasn't posted since Saturday.

[Toogeloo]

I said stupid. It came off like some sort of pity party, and you don't want to be around in case we get to LyLo. And for the record, if you were a member of town and you were alive and lost in LyLo... it's your fault, whether you hammered or not.

[Toogeloo]

Me,

Empking, ROFL

Im sure one is scum of this group

XFD ... why? ...why do you keep saying stuff like this.

[Toogeloo]

We can't all post walls.

[Toogeloo]

It's no secret you've never liked the way I play, so why do you keep bringing it up every game?

[Toogeloo]

We can't all post walls.

fallacy. you don't need to post walls to do something.

And who says I haven't done something today? Who says this very post isn't going to accomplish something? Mafia is more than just finding evidence. There's this thing called "reaction" that help as well. Maybe I am baiting you into something /spookymusic.

[Toogeloo]

Vote: roflcopter

[Toogeloo]

This day just keeps going around in circles. You people realize we have 2 dead scum out of 3 dead players, right? Just lynch someone that's going to give us info for Day 3 and let's move on... Boring Town is Boring.

[Toogeloo]

Nhammen... mcqueen... those are votes on non-viable wagons. Up until last page, rofl was the leading lynchee, and he still has four votes to empking's five.

I don't believe emp is scum though, nor do I really feel his lynch would be informative.

[Toogeloo]

I am complaining, yes. That doesn't mean we should just up and lynch anyone though. Empking is being voted solely because he wasn't on Prec's wagon and he disagrees with your plan to only lynch peiple not on that wagon. I agree with Emp that your rationale behind that does.not give us any information and you coul likely hit scum just as easily on the wagon. In fact, I would argue it's more likely scum would jump on at the end of the wagon to appear more town.

I don' t think scum anticipated losing another member during the evening, so they wouldn't be scared of bussing a super scummy member knowing that it would at least give them a little town cred. Rofl's hammer accomplishes both a chance to gain cred and end the day early, which makes him the better candidate. He's also received the most resistance to wagon today. Empking has no connections and he has an opinion which you disagree with, which is really the only thing you have argued with him against all day and tried to paint as scummy.

[Toogeloo]

1 & 2 are both circumstantial considering the day ended so quickly that most people not on the Prec lynch would appear to have ignored it. This alone makes your argument flawed as it's just as likely those of us off the wagon simply never had enough motivation to comment on it. It's just as self serving to your argument to use a short day against us when in all likelihood, town is going to miss a chance at commenting on something like that.

3 & 4. Actually, it is you straw manning my point. Mafia is a marathon, not a sprint. The scum team sacrificing a power member as weak as Prec seems acceptable if they think they might get town cred. They would not assume a lost member, and just because they think they are doing it for town cred doesn't mean it was done right. Obviously you think rofl is town, so it worked on some level, right? It's sad for them they lost another member, but maybe he shouldn't have been so obvious either.

5. I can't even respond to this because I never said he was getting resistance. There is an equal split of people wanting Emp lynched to wanting rofl lynched, and everyone else on some other wagon is doing exactly what you are accusing Emp of doing and ignoring both wagons to pursue their personal crusade.


And I am not dodging any questions. I specifically stated we just need to lynch someone that is going to give us info. I never stated one person gives more or less info than someone else.

[Toogeloo]

No, I’m not straw-manning.

Dude, the entire basis in how you have been playing has been to straw man other people.

Giving you a perfect example is how you keep demanding Empking to provide cases of speed lynches in other Mafia games, or demanding me to provide cases of how one lynch is more informative than another simply because I stated in an oh so condescending manner that the day is boring and we should just get to lynching someone that might provide us some info for Day 3. The obvious context of my complaint wasn't that our choices were uninformative, but that we were talking in circles and just get on with a lynch already... and it wasn't even aimed at anyone on either of the two leading wagons, but the people who had their votes on islands so we could get on with the day.

You pick specific things people say, and twist them into some form of rebuttal that you think is going to discredit their stance.


In reality, it doesn't do anything of the sort. I still feel as if everyone can be suspect, not just the people that didn't vote for Prec, and that it's more likely that scum are on the end of the wagon than not at all. You have ignored this point, but prefer to engineer some other aspect of my argument as being false or weak. You straw man, it's how you play, get over yourself.

[Toogeloo]

You know what... you win MoI. I bow down to your superior argumentative skills. How could I have not seen the light earlier.

Unvote;
Vote: Empking

[Toogeloo]

Sorry mate, tried to support your cause, but decided to take my own advice. 2 dead scum, 1 dead town. Any lynch to end this day is fine. It's obvious we have too many people unwilling to budge, thinking this is LyLo or something and don't want to screw it up. I figure any lynch is better than sitting here talking in circles for another week.

[Toogeloo]

Despite the fact that Jailkeeper is probably the easiest fake claim for a roleblocker...

Unvote

What a waste of a day. Thinking of either voting Sal or PM to remove the distraction.

[Toogeloo]

Regardless of whether it's policy or a scum lynch (I am more inclined to think he'll flip scum) PM is a good lynch today. Worst possible situation is he flips VT and we narrow down the pool of possible scum and a huge distraction, best possible situation is he flips scum.

Good plan.

Vote: PMysterious

[Toogeloo]

We win scummies for fastest Godfather lynch and possible fastest game.

Cupcake Mafia... Game Over end of Night 1. It was a Mini, granted, but in a 3 scum game, all were dead by the start of Day 2 (1 was lynched Day 1, 1 was Vig'd, and the other sent the night kill on a Bomb).

[Toogeloo]

Sal is just trying to look like he's super-hunter or something. Dude has 108 posts (2nd highest is MoI with 45), so he's probably hoping something he says will eventually stick or get a reaction.

[Toogeloo]

We all know Empking is going to "Jailkeep" VE tonight to protect him from being Mafia killed though, right?

[Toogeloo]

PM is acting pretty much like a troll from how I read his posts. He makes himself pretty much a null read since it's difficult to see if he's doing it because he wants to ridicule us for even thinking about lynching him or if he's doing it in the hopes that there is no way town would lynch him if he acts like a VI.

[Toogeloo]

mcqueen already responded to that ... Here.

[Toogeloo]

We are not lynching Velazanth or Toon Fighter today. These two players are Town, for sure.

If we are lynching based on MoI's philosophy, the one where we have to lynch people not on the Godfather lynch, then Empking is the only option imo. On the Wagon, I could go for Arugula, Salamance, and possibly even MoI for concocting this plan to only lynch off the lynch.

[Toogeloo]

Fuck it, I'll just shove MoI's plan down his throat.

I am the town Cop. Night 1 I scanned Velazanth Innocent. Night 2 I scanned Toon Fighter innocent. Pine was non-existent Day 1, he shouldn't even be included in the "plan" and Tangion was similarly so, eventually being replaced.

So what now MoI?

[Toogeloo]

Vote: Empking

[Toogeloo]

1. Why did you investigate those players specifically? And have any breadcrumbs for us?

As Cop, I always like to choose the people that lay low under the radar or don't look like lynches or night kills in the coming days. I want targets that scum are hoping to take to end game so it turns the tables on them. More active players tend to work themselves out naturally. I did in fact bread crumb that I scanned Velazanth during Day 2. In fact, I thought I did it too obviously because I drew the attention of at least 2 other people (rofl and mcstab) when they asked me why I trusted Velazanth so much when he had such a limited amount of posts, which had me fearing that I might get the block or kill the next night... so I started outright acting scummy day 2, going against the grain and just being stupid, to hopefully throw off the scent (I was planning to lay under the radar).

Breadcrumb post here:

I originally suspected the possibility of a SK VE, which is why asked for his thought process in choosing IaI. But his play today has pushed that thought from my mind. He is too prominent and with a dead Tracker, I don't see a motivation to bring attention to himself as third party. I'd say VE is more likely town than third party.

Adding to my town reads, Velazanth is at the top.

I also like nhammen, McStab, and mcqueen (in most like to a little less sure).

2. Why did you claim for absolutely no reason other than your personal ego being bruised?

I calculated the odds of us winning after revealing TWO living players with True Innocent scans on them (Godfather is already dead). If we take out Empking, that is one less (or the only) Roleblock to contend with during the night. Between VisceraEyes, mcqueen, Toon, Velazanth, and myself, all cleared (

largely

assuming you take my word for being Cop, VE's word for being Vig, and mcqueens play speaking for itself Day 1), scum has to get rid of a lot of town to get a shot at any kind of winnable MyLo/LyLo. If VE can kill every night, it will quickly narrow down their chances. I actually weighed claiming today with trying to ride one more day out, but Toon, Vel, and myself all seemed to be the most focused players right off the bat, and I would rather claim now and make sure the other two don't ever have to claim, then possibly have all of us claimed at some point.

3. Why are McStab (via Pine) and inte (via Tangion) not possible scum simply because Day 1 went fast?

Well, first off, I never said they weren't scum, I simply said that their slots shouldn't be condemned for being off the wagon simply because they were. Pine never even confirmed and the slot never posted once on Day 1. Tangion I think had one post, then dropped off the face of the planet for a week before replacing (reviewing his posts in other topics on the site, he claimed he was unable to log into mafiascum for a while). Pine-slot had nothing to do with being on or off the Presc wagon, and it can only be a null-tell at worst. However, McStab's first post upon entering the game read to me from a townie perspective. Tangion was gone a long while, and between the two has the larger possibility of being scum, but for now, inte's play has been constructive enough that I would warrant leaving it alone.




Considering I have cleared half of the non-wagoners and don't feel like it's prudent play to pursue McStab or inte, I feel certain that at least one other scum was on the Presc wagon at the end of Day 1.

We are not lynching VE today. I want his extra kill going forward, and we can condemn him later if his shots are ever out of line. With almost half the town being a threat to end game for scum, we can narrow down the player list relatively quickly.

[Toogeloo]

1. So you decided to play Scummy in thread to dissuade being Nightkilled and yet today your frustration is that you were under suspicion. Is that what I am seeing here?

Not quite. I played just scummy enough to be left alone at night. I didn't want to push the boundary and potentially get vig'd. I knew at some point I would have to answer during the day. The day phase started with votes flying entirely at myself, Velazanth, and Toon Fighter. I highly doubted that all 3 of us would escape scrutiny or a pile on lynch, and felt it more prudent to just outright claim my info. There will be no reason to make the two of them claim at this point, and scum gain no additional information other than knowing they are town. And considering how solid a base we have it severely narrows down the focus for today.

2. How does the fact that two players specifically pointed out your breadcrumb and yet you were not killed / blocked affect your read on those slots (McStab / Rofl)?

I originally thought rofl might have been role fishing the way he phrased it, but currently I have him fairly null-leaning-town, based mostly on reactions to being lynched and reveals of roles and actions through the last couple days. McStab I felt was town yesterday from his first post, and haven't really wavered on that.



Also, not really willing to end the day just yet, so ...

Unvote

...for now. Totally kosher with a potential Arugula lynch at the moment.

[Toogeloo]

IMHO, nhammen was likely the safest kill. My guess is scum aren't/weren't sure if a Doctor or Watcher exists, and whether said Doc/Watch would target VE who is a very pro-town player with a power-role. Nhammen was generally accepted as Town from Day 1 play by most people, but was probably the least likely to draw protection after the Day 2 we had, making him a likely the safest kill.

[Toogeloo]

I was hoping to hear analysis from Velazanth now that I had cleared him before we ended the day.

[Toogeloo]

Good job guys.

[Toogeloo]

Pretty sure scum gave up once replacements started coming in. They were likely banking on town being inactive the rest of the game. They almost got inte and rofl as possible mislynches going, and for whatever reason once MoI claimed Bulletproof, no one wanted to touch him, like he was just as important as a Cop or Doctor.

[Toogeloo]

Pretty sure McStab just gave up is all.