NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[buldermar]

Majiffy, tell me who is scum and who is not plx ty

[buldermar]

Oh God it's Vifam.. now I know why 135 pages ;D

[buldermar]

And mollie!.. which reminds me that I have to fix my sig -_-

[buldermar]

Alrighty, and I gotta sleep.

[buldermar]

mollie, my sig is updated but doesn't update here. Why?

[buldermar]

mr flay said you have to manually go into ucp and click on the show sigs in your posts. that is what worked for me.

you are scum aren't you

Happy now?

Yes I'm scum.

[buldermar]

Vifam, I've missed you.

[buldermar]

I've not started yet and I wont until tomorrow.

[buldermar]

Buldemar for Buldemar is null to me. What are you getting off him Mollie?

mollie has a history of reading me incorrectly, regardless of my actual alignment.

[buldermar]

Do we know if there's only one scum party or not?

[buldermar]

What is the IAI dilemma?

[buldermar]

What is the IAI dilemma?

how much of this game have you followed before you replaced in?

This is not the right question to ask. The right question to ask is if I have been following this game before I replaced in, the answer to which is no, I have not.

[buldermar]

He's a claimed cop, with a N1 town investigation on pirate mollie, and a N2 result on Nacho. But since the only result we've gotten since after claim is on a guy who's dead, that seems rather convenient if he's fakeclaiming. But mollie was a great N1 target all things considered and I don't think Nacho was a bad one either. Nacho being the kill was more or less unforeseeable from my viewpoint. One would have expected scum to kill IAI, a claimed cop, over Nacho, a rather scummy player.

Anyway, it is the dilemma of a claimed cop. But add to it that he only claimed after he was beginning to be run up, and he was only beginning to be run up due to a Gunsmith fakeclaim from MattP which stated that IAI had a gun. Which, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your POV), fits right in with the cop claim, so it could have just been a fakeclaim that he pulled out of his ass. Also, since mollie wasn't liking Matt at that point, he could have easily picked her as a fake past investigation result, gambling that she was town based on only one NK from N1, and knowing that if so, she'd buy his claim, and try to kill off MattP for him.

So that's pretty much it I think. If I missed something, somebody else fill in the dirty details.

Awesome. This actually makes me want to read the game in its entirety.

[buldermar]

Jacob was scummy before, nothing's changed that.
Not interested in a Majiffy or Rev wagon right now.
Reading incentive.

In what way was Jacob scummy?

[buldermar]

Buldemar for Buldemar is null to me. What are you getting off him Mollie?

mollie has a history of reading me incorrectly, regardless of my actual alignment.

that is not true I only misread you in the KISS game, I was totally trolling you in rachmarie's game cos you completely coasted in my game it was fucking ridiculous. also look at you try to discredit me.

I also asked you some questions are you going to attempt to answer them or what

In what game did you read me correctly without you being scum and thus knowing my true alignment?

Which questions?

[buldermar]

also look at you try to discredit me.

This is silly because I'm discrediting you without even knowing if you're reading me as town or scum. In other words, it works to my advantage no more than it works to my disadvantage.

[buldermar]

Add buldermar to the people Im willing to lynch Today.

Will you elaborate on this?

[buldermar]

if you are town, hurry the fuck up and talk, because as AP said, we are losing time

I am talking, but I havn't read the game yet.

[buldermar]

I am sure your fingers work.

My fingers are highly functional darling, want a free trial?

[buldermar]

buldey already looks scummy and if we are not lynching majiffy, we are lynching him

I would be lying if I claimed that this is unexpected.

[buldermar]

buldey not only do I own your sig but I am pretty sure you agreed to be my bitch in the next 3 games we played together

I am pretty sure I didn't ever agree to be your bitch, although it is correct that you own my sig for now.

[buldermar]

Though, looking over Mafiastuck, it appears I'm going to like this buldermar fellow. Hope he's town.

♥

I am. I guess I'll have to reread this game now to avoid getting mislynched, so I will.

[buldermar]

Buldamar is kind of a dick

Oh shoot, I didn't even know you disliked me. Why am I kind of a dick? We've only ever played one game together so I presume it's based on something from that game - what exactly?

[buldermar]

Buldamar is kind of a dick

he is one of my favourite people

I almost ragequitted this site in my first game but he was kind so I stuck it out with my newbie game and met majiffy and maestro. and N.

questions to buldey:

does matt's aTe look genuine or fake? most players are not capable of that type of emotional manipulation but you saw what raven did, so yeah some players should not get a pass for that. ap says that he is capable of it and I believe him, it just takes a lot of confidence.

what do you think of majiffy? I think he looks terribly terribly terribly scummy, like seriously scummilicious and I think he needs to be lynched, are you down with that? if not can you plz tell me why?

I cannot get a grasp on uber goober.

both vifam and ap have a scumread on rev, can you help sort that out? they might be onto something so I dunno, he has felt very town so far.

penguin has slipped twice on kills what is up with that. other than that she looks good especially with the timing of her arc vote but what is weird is that she read when I said this as me having her down as scum. her arc vote looked good, it is her slips that make her look bad. the vig is already dead so it is not a vig slip I don't think.

Alright I found your questions mollie, I'm sorry that I missed them earlier.

I'll specifically make sure to state my opinion of matt's AtE when I read it.

For now I'm actually slightly leaning scum on Majiffy, but I trust that I'll get a better impression once I've read the game.

I'll try to get a read on uber goober specifically.

I'll also look at rev specifically.

So, to do list:
Read game
Look at matt's AtE
Look at Majiffy
Look at uber goober
Look at rev

[buldermar]

He was a real dick in mafiastuck but yeah he's a cool dude

I really don't think I was a real dick in mafiastuck. I'm opinionated, but I rarely insult people who doesn't insult me first. In mafiastuck, the thing that I remember being pissed about most clearly was the behavior of the Titan slot. Since the two of you got along, maybe your opinion of me is based on that? If not, what it is based on?

[buldermar]

Add buldermar to the people Im willing to lynch Today.

Will you elaborate on this?

--

buldey already looks scummy

Buldemar for Buldemar is null to me. What are you getting off him Mollie?

mollie has a history of reading me incorrectly, regardless of my actual alignment.

Implying you are town because Mollie is bad at reading you and she thinks you are scum.

also look at you try to discredit me.

This is silly because I'm discrediting you

without even knowing if you're reading me as town or scum

. In other words, it works to my advantage no more than it works to my disadvantage.

She is clearly reading you as scum, and there is no FUCKING way you made post 3404 without seeing 3398.

Get wrecked, liar.

VOTE: Buldermar

I know I havn't been lying about anything in this game, so I'd like to know what it is specifically that you think I have lied about. Are you just sheeping mollie?

[buldermar]

If you're town buldermar, then read the fucking game asshole. Or at least read the important parts. We didn't want JS gone so we could have another worthless asshole in his place. If you're scum, then by all means do what you're doing, it's working fantastically.

I'm town and I'm going to read the game. What exactly is it that you think "I'm doing"? You're implying that my behavior is anti-town - do examplify.

I think I'm going to claim before reading this game to avoid wasting time if you guys are lynching me anyway, plus it means that I couldn't have constructed my claim to fit a priori information.

Also, you're in no way inclined to call me an asshole, so quit that if you want to avoid a verbal warfare.

[buldermar]

But out of perspective it's completely plausible Buldermar got onto that page - which Mollie says nothing about a Buldscum read - saw 4303, and responded with what he did.

Good, you can be town for pointing out something that nobody else was thinking about to save my ass when you're a likely candidate to get lynched. In fact, I know that you know that I comment on posts as I read in the game regardless of the position of the post and I do not always read stuff chronologically, and for you to point this out you're almost guaranteed to be town.

In other words, I'm going to oppose a Majiffy lynch, and I'm going to be pretty fucking dissapointed if you lynch me, see me flip town and continue your Majiffy is scum bullshit regardless.

[buldermar]

... "What" is the primary word there. Not "Why". So it's not really that obvious at first glance. Put into perspective, sure. But out of perspective it's completely plausible Buldermar got onto that page - which Mollie says nothing about a Buldscum read - saw 4303, and responded with what he did.

except buldey always backtracks and reads the posts and responds to them once he starts a game. you typically complain about this cos it results in a kajillion posts from him.

VOTE: buldermar

I've been reading this game partly backwards which is also why I didn't see your questions to me until you pointed them out. Do you really think I intentionally ignored them? I'd like to have you answer this because there is no fucking way you'd think so as town for meta reasons.

[buldermar]

Is Buldermar more or less likely to stall and eat up time as scum?

I don't stall and eat up time EVER as a tactic in a game of mafia as either alignment, I think too highly of myself to consider that a necessity. People that have played with me before can confirm that they have never seen me deliberately postponing things because it would put me in an advantageous position in-game. Since there are plenty of people who have played with me before in this game, it's really only a matter of a few of them being town for this to be confirmable.

[buldermar]

Nah you're cool I just think you could be mean I'm not saying you're a bad guy

I don't hate anyone on this site

It's true that I can be mean, I'll give you that...

[buldermar]

Going to read the game now and post my comments on things I find relevant as I go along. It will be a shitton of posts and I don't give a flying fuck.

[buldermar]

I almost forgot I have to claim first.

[buldermar]

Compulsive Bodyguard....

[buldermar]

I have to target one every night and if that target would have died from a single nightkill without my protection, i die instead. However, if multiple people attempt to nightkill that person, we both die. This is also why I wanted to know if we know if there is multiple scum parties in this game.

[buldermar]

Oh now I get why you're all fucking raging about me reading the game asap - deadline is bankable. I'm sorry that I was unaware of this, and I'm reading the game right now fwiw.

[buldermar]

Boner Police is 100% Town. For Certain.

100% Confident? On page 2 no less.

vote: JacobSavage

This vote reasoning stands out to me as either scummy or quite silly.

[buldermar]

Oh now I get why you're all fucking raging about me reading the game asap - deadline is bankable. I'm sorry that I was unaware of this, and I'm reading the game right now fwiw.

Scumslip! The town role PM explicitly asks you to confirm by stating it's bankable deadline

Go get 'em UN you feisty lil scumcatchin tiger

I just checked and you're indeed right that it's included in my role PM but it's down below the part about win condition, that is, below the point at which I stopped reading my role PM. I read merely what my role name was and what it meant because you do not have to confirm shit as a replacement.

[buldermar]

Though, looking over Mafiastuck, it appears I'm going to like this buldermar fellow. Hope he's town.

♥

I am. I guess I'll have to reread this game now to avoid getting mislynched, so I will.

Much appreciated.

I like the way you threw "mislynched" in there to make us think you're town, lol

Like that's gonna help

I obviously want you all to think I'm town regardless of my alignment - what the fuck is your point? Why would I want it any less as town than as scum?

[buldermar]

WHY THE FGUCK DOES EVERY POST I MAKE FAIL ASKLDMFasldkfasds

[buldermar]

... "What" is the primary word there. Not "Why". So it's not really that obvious at first glance. Put into perspective, sure. But out of perspective it's completely plausible Buldermar got onto that page - which Mollie says nothing about a Buldscum read - saw 4303, and responded with what he did.

except buldey always backtracks and reads the posts and responds to them once he starts a game. you typically complain about this cos it results in a kajillion posts from him.

VOTE: buldermar

I've been reading this game partly backwards which is also why I didn't see your questions to me until you pointed them out. Do you really think I intentionally ignored them? I'd like to have you answer this because there is no fucking way you'd think so as town for meta reasons.

jesus christ you should at least skim the thread I am pretty much confirmed town you dummy

I find it interesting that your first thoughts immediately go to a second kill faction you know what I think about that and it fits your scum meta

Firstly, can someone quickly confirm that mollie is indeed confirmed town so that I know time spent showing to her why I am town isn't wasted?

My first thoughts went to a second kill faction because of my role. I don't get how the hell that "fits my scum meta".

[buldermar]

Wait he didn't have to go through the whole "Tell me it's a bankable deadline thing" right?

I'm confused

Right, I didn't, which is why it wasn't a scumslip as suggested.

[buldermar]

Hey Maestro does Buld have to answer the "What deadline is this" question?

ZzzZzz when the fuck was the last time you had to confirm shit as a replacement? No I didn't have to fucking answer that question.

[buldermar]

If you're town buldermar, then read the fucking game asshole. Or at least read the important parts. We didn't want JS gone so we could have another worthless asshole in his place. If you're scum, then by all means do what you're doing, it's working fantastically.

I'm town and I'm going to read the game. What exactly is it that you think "I'm doing"? You're implying that my behavior is anti-town - do examplify.

Hmmm.... Let's go with: Wasting our time writing posts and making small talk when you should be busy back at page 20 or so by now, diligently reading the thread like a good little replacement, instead of keeping current with the last few pages and responding to every post made in the thread.

Just for starters, anyway.

Also, you're in no way inclined to call me an asshole, so quit that if you want to avoid a verbal warfare.

Trust me, I can handle myself in a verbal slapfight if it comes down to it.

Bitch, I'm fabulous.

Mollie complained about me not answering her questions, so here I am trying to read the game while I respond to things people throw my way. If you want me to read the game, merely refrain from asking me questions or making accusations that I am obligated to respond to. It's that simple.

I trust that you can handle yourself and I also trust that you're intelligent enough to avoid wasting valueable time on throwing mud for no reason.

[buldermar]

Is Buldermar more or less likely to stall and eat up time as scum?

I don't stall and eat up time EVER as a tactic in a game of mafia as either alignment, I think too highly of myself to consider that a necessity. People that have played with me before can confirm that they have never seen me deliberately postponing things because it would put me in an advantageous position in-game. Since there are plenty of people who have played with me before in this game, it's really only a matter of a few of them being town for this to be confirmable.

Do you think that question of his was scummy in the way it was phrased / the intent it was meant to have on the reader?

This is actually a really good question.

I don't have much to base it on, but completely out of context I'd say that this seems like a town mindset. I think few scums are sophisticated enough to actually refrain from jumping on me for silly reasons like many people, some of which undoubtably town, in this game has done.

[buldermar]

Also, I love how you ask me a question right after you complain about me reading this part of the game instead of the earlier part of the game.

[buldermar]

I have to target one every night and if that target would have died from a single nightkill without my protection, i die instead. However, if multiple people attempt to nightkill that person, we both die. This is also why I wanted to know if we know if there is multiple scum parties in this game.

Seems like kind of a long shot to assume that scum (assuming one team) and the vig would both target the same person, so why even bother to specify that stipulation? If that's actually in your role, then it's a smart question to wonder that.

Still, we haven't seen any more than 2 kills, AND a/the scum JK was dead on D2 so that could have been what stopped the vig NK on N1, and thus there were 2 NKs on N2. Judging by how many we have tonight we should be able to get a pretty fucking accurate idea of whether or not there are 2 scum teams (I heavily doubt it).

For me to be scum by now I'd have to have planned to fake claim this right when I replaced in and thus intentionally asked a question about the amount of scum parties to support it plus hope to get voted enough to justify fake-claiming this. Self-meta is silly, but I find that claiming this is exactly what happened is equally if not more silly.

If there is only 1 scum team, that means this was included

only

to punish town for having a vig killing a town member. I find that hard to believe - it's a big enough punishment to lose two town members in one night in itself, so there would be no reason to implement additional punishment. Of the two options, I'm leaning towards two scum teams or a 3rd party killing role versus a mechanism that punishes town for having the vig wrongfully target a protected town member.

[buldermar]

Though, looking over Mafiastuck, it appears I'm going to like this buldermar fellow. Hope he's town.

♥

I am. I guess I'll have to reread this game now to avoid getting mislynched, so I will.

Much appreciated.

I like the way you threw "mislynched" in there to make us think you're town, lol

Like that's gonna help

I obviously want you all to think I'm town regardless of my alignment - what the fuck is your point? Why would I want it any less as town than as scum?

Because as town you'd have less to prove, obviously

I don't think this is true, at least not in any broad sense. As town, I still have to prove that I'm town unless I'm indirectly confirmed as being town.

[buldermar]

I'm cool with lynching TheReverend from what I've read this far if he's not confirmed town one way or the other.

[buldermar]

This Reverend guy is way too jumpy.

This is an accurate read in my opinion and exactly the impression I've gotten from reading the game up till this point.

[buldermar]

Which slot is Boner Police? I can't find it in the OP.

[buldermar]

damn, I probably shouldn't have joined this game. 14 pages before I even know it's open? fuuuuuck this

and i am behind in all my other games too, which means my accuracy pretty much goes right down the shitter

we might as well just give up if matt and reck are scum

This reads as sincere to me, so town points to Ubergirl.

[buldermar]

Which slot is Boner Police? I can't find it in the OP.

I think that's MattP now.

Thanks!

[buldermar]

All right, I just daycopped om to be sure and he's scum

VOTE: Om

This slot is almost certainly town.

[buldermar]

UNVOTE: Buldermar

ZABRIEL OR MAJIFFY SOMEONE FLIP A COIN AND LETS LYNCH THE SCUM.

What made you change your mind about me?

[buldermar]

TheReverend - town read

Why this townread?

[buldermar]

All right, I just daycopped om to be sure and he's scum

VOTE: Om

This slot is almost certainly town.

yeah

cos fakeclaiming like five times in a fucking game is most certainly "town"

it could never be that scum would fos or bus their buddies

fake eta: also fuck you matt, I don't believe in acupuncture but I believe in my profession

Darling, you need a relaxing massage; you're all tense and annoyed.

[buldermar]

Lol. Seriously, how many more PRs can there be. 3 masons, IC, Vig, Bodyguard. And I REALLY believe the BG claim, so Im counting it as definite.

Possible Cop since IaI claimed that shit super fast. So Really, that is probably all/most of the power, lol. Unless IaI is scum in which case MAYBE one more PR.

Preview window modification to the http-post I am typing: Vote Zab then, lol

Since there almost has to be two scum parties for my role to make sense, it's only logical that town is also stacked.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Majiffy

I don't get you. He claims VT and you change your vote?

???
?
???

[buldermar]

Seriously stop vote hopping AP, it's part of the reason this game has such low morale. Zab had a shitty claim. He's a good target. We have bankable time. REALLY not the time to vote hop.

This man gets it.

[buldermar]

I just dropped my laptop and it's pretty badly broken so I'm on the desktop.

dude dude, you shouldn't get this worked up over a game

j/k j/k

[buldermar]

I still think Rev is the best lynch for today

I agree with this.

VOTE: rev

Also I'm under no circumstances voting Majiffy.

[buldermar]

Personally I'd rather lynch reverend than majiffy if I had to pick...

Get your vote on rev then.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Buldurmer

Day 1 reads too strong.

It's cute that you always think I'm scum, Dan.

[buldermar]

UNVOTE:

found it

So basically protect Mhork all game ok.

Why Mhork specifically? (sorry, I'm still not fully caught up)

[buldermar]

Can we please just vote rev or that VT-claiming guy instead of Majiffy? I'm pretty sure that Maj is town.

[buldermar]

*

clears throat

* MattP replaces the now-defunct Boner Police.

@Mod: you forgot to include this in your opening post (slot 16).

[buldermar]

mollie is scum, she's much more laid back and more of a town leader when town.

VOTE: mollie

I'll be good for a proper read through tomorrow. For now I'm happy with meta for a mollie lynch.

I would say that this could be important should we lynch rev... but since he pretty much voted everyone at some point, it isn't.

[buldermar]

His claim is super legit and definitely not from mafia.

How do you figure? Wouldn't bodyguard be a perfect claim for mafia? 1) I have never played with one, only seen it fake claimed, so not likely to be CC'd right? 2) they could wait until the night flips happen and say oh, I targeted that live player instead.

You can just control who I target, but scum is going to target someone else then.

[buldermar]

Oh now I get why you're all fucking raging about me reading the game asap - deadline is bankable. I'm sorry that I was unaware of this, and I'm reading the game right now fwiw.

Scumslip! The town role PM explicitly asks you to confirm by stating it's bankable deadline

So yeah matt is so fucking obviously town it hurts.

I see bulderscum is pushing for my lynch too. Did you get to #3183 and my uberninja push yet? I'm just gonna lazily point at that post and say I'm town, so fuck off.

I'll have a look.

[buldermar]

Oh and while I'm at it, I also was wondering about uberninja's read of you. When I asked him he asked of me to ISO him and search for "rev". I did, but I found no explanation.

[buldermar]

I've read and if anything you look more scummy than before. However, Uber Ninja also looks scummy for having such a strong town read on you out of the blue, I'll give you that.

[buldermar]

His claim is super legit and definitely not from mafia.

How do you figure? Wouldn't bodyguard be a perfect claim for mafia? 1) I have never played with one, only seen it fake claimed, so not likely to be CC'd right? 2) they could wait until the night flips happen and say oh, I targeted that live player instead.

You can just control who I target, but scum is going to target someone else then.

Who did Jacob target n1 and n2?

Santa Claus and Batman.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Rev

Kick it in2 overdrive

You never dissapoint, Vifam.

[buldermar]

I just got a PM from JacobSavage. Am I allowed to share everything from the message with everyone in this game publicly, or is there a rule against it?

[buldermar]

I intentionally havn't read the actual content of his message as of yet because I'm uncertain if he's allowed to PM me about this game or not.

Can anyone confirm that I'm allowed to copy his exact message?

[buldermar]

And FWIW the mod did not tell me who JacobSavage protected on night 1 and night 2.

[buldermar]

That's a complete breakage of site rules. When you're out of a game you're out of a game. If the post is intended in any way to influence the game and is anything more that, "good luck!" or something like that then he should be reported immediately. Don't open the PM, message Maestro and have Maestro message JS and ask JS what the PM contained. Save the PM until after the game ends. That is all.

I'll ask Maestro what I should do..

[buldermar]

And FWIW the mod did not tell me who JacobSavage protected on night 1 and night 2.

My vote stays.

? I'm pretty sure the mod would confirm that he gave me no info about the previous actions of my slot if required - especially if this is a deviation from normal procedure.

[buldermar]

That's a complete breakage of site rules. When you're out of a game you're out of a game. If the post is intended in any way to influence the game and is anything more that, "good luck!" or something like that then he should be reported immediately. Don't open the PM, message Maestro and have Maestro message JS and ask JS what the PM contained. Save the PM until after the game ends. That is all.

Well I've opened the PM, but I havn't read the actual content of it. It was longer than merely "good luck", so it may very well contain his targets from night 1 and night 2.

[buldermar]

so it may very well contain his targets from night 1 and night 2.

This information, you need to know it, so if that's all it is, then it's not going to be an issue as far as I'm aware. But yeah this kind of stuff should done through mod. You should probably have not told us he pm'ed you and just asked the mod for direction before commenting.

There is a lot of things I shouldn't have done, including opening the PM, but I can guarantee you a few things: 1) I did not do anything to attempt to cheat in this game, 2) I've not read the content of the PM, 3) I'll do everything I can to ensure that no harm to the game is caused.

Luckily, we have a fucking awesome mod who willingly provided me the information of JacobSavage's previous night actions:

n1, MattP
n2, I Am Innocent

[buldermar]

I find it odd that IAI

did

ask the mod what actions jacob undertook immediately after reading role pm, it's the first thing I do when replacing in.

*didn't

I've just smoked a fat spliff.

Keep going with the corrections...

*bulder... there's a third?

A third what?

[buldermar]

That's a complete breakage of site rules. When you're out of a game you're out of a game. If the post is intended in any way to influence the game and is anything more that, "good luck!" or something like that then he should be reported immediately. Don't open the PM, message Maestro and have Maestro message JS and ask JS what the PM contained. Save the PM until after the game ends. That is all.

it isn't a post it is a pm

it is in no way zombie play, which is what you are trying to paint it as. however I am going to go with that this issue has come up before on this site and let maestro settle it. specials need to know what the player who had the previous slot's actions were so that they can be accountable for their future ones.

not to mention there are some roles where you cannot target someone consecutively and that can have a direct impact on the game.

As far as I am informed, it was my responsibility to ask for this information when I replaced in. I didn't. However, Maestro has now informed me of the actions of JacobSavage and I've explained to him this whole situation.

[buldermar]

Seriously though, I feel the admittance that he hasn't already asked the mod what jacob's actions were, this looks like a scumslip to me. I just can't imagine why he wouldn't do it immediately if he really got that role.

Well in that case your imagination is simply too limited for this reality.

Suppose it

was

a scumslip; why on earth wouldn't I just have claimed to have protected two random people who are alive?

[buldermar]

You've already claimed VT, how can I be pressuring you into a claim

Oh snap.

[buldermar]

You're scum, aren't you?

I'd like to OMGUS you but I don't think you're scum

Herpderp

[buldermar]

Now you're changing your mind on me as well?

I'm merely showing that your opinions are entirely arbitrary, which is an advantageous tactic for scum but not town to apply.

[buldermar]

Is it ok to think someone is scum and then change the read to town when they post stuff that makes me think I was wrong?

Yes, but this is not what you're doing. You're arbitrarily changing your opinion on people - sometimes without any content-posts in-between your shift of opinion.

[buldermar]

I understand why I looked scummy earlier. I feel I've done everything I can to show I'm town. If you guys aren't interested in using the information available to you to narrow down the scum pool, that's your loss. You're wasting your time with me. I'm not going to flip scum, no matter how many of my posts you quote. So give it up and aim for people who are being allowed to coast by without attention imo.

Well your alternatives are including, but not limited to, Majiffy (who I consider very likely to be town) and myself, so you're doing a pretty awful job at narrowing down the scum pool yourself - at least from my POV.

[buldermar]

Buldermar, you said your role is compulsive, so what happens if you don't submit a target?

This is a really good question. Coincidentally, the mod just told me now because I had not yet been submitting a target for tonight. A target would randomly be chosen.

[buldermar]

I want a massage : (

i need another massage so fucking bad.

i was at a concert a few nights ago and i'm still so sore it's fucking unbelievable

and this is after yesterday's 40-min massage too

what teh fuck

"Hey look at me I get 40-min massages, go to concerts, and still complain, herpderpderp" xD

[buldermar]

Oh and while I'm at it, I also was wondering about uberninja's read of you. When I asked him he asked of me to ISO him and search for "rev". I did, but I found no explanation.

sigh. must i do everyone's work for them?

ask me again when i'm done catching up

As long as you just do

my

work I wont complain

[buldermar]

I've read and if anything you look more scummy than before. However, Uber Ninja also looks scummy for having such a strong town read on you out of the blue, I'll give you that.

Really? I look scummy for basically admitting I look scummy up to that point and pointing the finger at the only person defending me? Ok then, cool. Lynch me and pretend to be surprised tomorrow.

*nods*
this increases my suspicion of buldermar again

also, the whole role PM and PM from Jacob thing feels like a gambit of some kind

clearly jacob couldn't be arsed about this game
why should he care now?

I feel insulted that you'd think I'd fake another player on this site breaking a site-wide rule. I'd never do this sort of defamation, it would be extremely unethical.

[buldermar]

Lynch me and pretend to be surprised tomorrow.

here's another town tell, if anyone was counting

oh wait, no, everyone's fucking idiots

This isn't a fucking town-tell, it's him playing the ancient "look I don't care herpderp"-card.

[buldermar]

so it may very well contain his targets from night 1 and night 2.

This information, you need to know it, so if that's all it is, then it's not going to be an issue as far as I'm aware. But yeah this kind of stuff should done through mod. You should probably have not told us he pm'ed you and just asked the mod for direction before commenting.

exactly why it feels like a gambit

At the risk of repeating myself, it couldn't be a gambit because I'd never claim that someone else were breaking a site-rule to gain a personal advantage in a game, and most certainly not someone I a) don't even know and b) isn't even a part of the game anymore.

[buldermar]

Do not contact any player in or outside of the game about the game unless specifically allowed to by the moderator. When allowed, only do so in the specific manner allowed.

...

Do not discuss ongoing games in the game.
Do not discuss this game anywhere else with anyone else.

No matter what information the PM contains, this is OBVIOUSLY a breakage of site rules
JacobSavage will be dealt with accordingly. Please continue with the game.

guess it's not a gambit

this swings buldy back to town and jacob STRONGLY to "complete fucking moron"

NO SHIT SHERLOCK "clap clap clap".

[buldermar]

whoever pointed out that rev starts lashing out at any target in reach, once suspicion gets directed towards him, was actually right

Ofc I'm right - the question is whether or not this is indicative of alignment. I'm not 100% certain, but I still think he's a good lynch for today.

[buldermar]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Majiffy

;(

[buldermar]

Buldermar, you said your role is compulsive, so what happens if you don't submit a target?

This is a really good question. Coincidentally, the mod just told me now because I had not yet been submitting a target for tonight. A target would randomly be chosen.

wait why would he pm you to tell you that. you submit your targets in the night round I have had the bodyguard role like twice I know how the role works.

okay, lost my town read on you cos that ^^^^ reeks.

mollie, you're making me want to smash my head into my keyboard so fucking hard right now.

I thought myself that I were to submit my targets in the night round, which is why I had not done it yet.

There are to explanations as to why he PM'ed me about it:
1) I have to submit target before the onset of the night
2) He felt like it was appropriate because he just gave me the night targets of JacobSavage and his mind was on giving me all of the information I need to play my role

Since there is no real disadvantage in submitting my target now, I did so.

[buldermar]

I think I found something.

Majiffy is either intentionally misrepping or a dumbass.

?

I know dude, why not AND?

Intentionally misrepping AND a dumbass!

Majiffy is the clear vote here. He's been misrepping and it's bad.

show me

also, was he misrepping about anything in particular that would help him or a specific other person

or just misrepping in general

actually

vote: Majiffy

i apologize to whoever it was before that was complaining about majiffy misrepping, and i said i didnt really see it

and he's a better lynch than zabriel at any rate

VOTE: Uber

Since rev isn't getting lynched, and since I do not want Majiffy lynched, I can go with this.

VOTE: Uber Ninja

[buldermar]

buld, what's your read on zab?

I don't think I have one, but I'd have to reread my own ISO to make sure.

[buldermar]

BULDEY PLZ FUCKING BODYGUARD IaI IF YOU ARE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM TOWN

[buldermar]

buldey plz tell me you are protecting IaI

you are protecting IaI

[buldermar]

buldey plz tell me you are protecting IaI

you are protecting IaI

who has claimed cop and is making sense and not putting up with matt's dramaqueening about

yes, plz protect IaI we need another cop read if nothing else just to stop matt's freaking tantrums. if he is a good player then we need him but if he is scum let him gtfo and get lynched.

this actually will help IaI's case wrt to her cop claim as in, at some point and time she will be answerable for that read. it is bottlenecking scum's options later in the game, have you learned nothing on tr???????

I love it when you talk dirty, hun!

[buldermar]

Let's just agree to be lynching Zab, then. A VT claim scares everyone, but think about it: Another power role claim would have to be hammered for lying. Right now, scum's safer fake claim IS vt.

This is not how things work. Claims are WIFOM, as is most of everything else in this game.

[buldermar]

I've read and if anything you look more scummy than before. However, Uber Ninja also looks scummy for having such a strong town read on you out of the blue, I'll give you that.

Really? I look scummy for basically admitting I look scummy up to that point and pointing the finger at the only person defending me? Ok then, cool. Lynch me and pretend to be surprised tomorrow.

*nods*
this increases my suspicion of buldermar again

also, the whole role PM and PM from Jacob thing feels like a gambit of some kind

clearly jacob couldn't be arsed about this game
why should he care now?

I feel insulted that you'd think I'd fake another player on this site breaking a site-wide rule. I'd never do this sort of defamation, it would be extremely unethical.

far be it from a mafia player to lie

i know

It's not a matter of fucking lying. Lying is a part of the game. Defamation is not. Do you even comprehend the point I'm conveying or are you just being intentionally dense now? I'm not going to waste my fucking time showing that I can't be scum if you're not going to carefully read the points I'm making.

[buldermar]

Lynch me and pretend to be surprised tomorrow.

here's another town tell, if anyone was counting

oh wait, no, everyone's fucking idiots

This isn't a fucking town-tell, it's him playing the ancient "look I don't care herpderp"-card.

nah i like the way he said "pretend to be surprised" instead of something about he'd flip town

it's teh second tier of consciousness that's implied which makes this more townie sounding

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[buldermar]

so it may very well contain his targets from night 1 and night 2.

This information, you need to know it, so if that's all it is, then it's not going to be an issue as far as I'm aware. But yeah this kind of stuff should done through mod. You should probably have not told us he pm'ed you and just asked the mod for direction before commenting.

exactly why it feels like a gambit

At the risk of repeating myself, it couldn't be a gambit because I'd never claim that someone else were breaking a site-rule to gain a personal advantage in a game, and most certainly not someone I a) don't even know and b) isn't even a part of the game anymore.

"it couldn't be a gambit because i'd never... "

i stopped reading at that part

Then it is entirely your own fault that you fail to comprehend how this could not have been a gambit. You're stuck in your confirmation bias, ignoring everything that proves your hypothesis that I am scum false. I'm done wasting my time on you.

[buldermar]

Do not contact any player in or outside of the game about the game unless specifically allowed to by the moderator. When allowed, only do so in the specific manner allowed.

...

Do not discuss ongoing games in the game.
Do not discuss this game anywhere else with anyone else.

No matter what information the PM contains, this is OBVIOUSLY a breakage of site rules
JacobSavage will be dealt with accordingly. Please continue with the game.

guess it's not a gambit

this swings buldy back to town and jacob STRONGLY to "complete fucking moron"

NO SHIT SHERLOCK "clap clap clap".

you sound a little too happy/excited at this result

but you're forgetting:

didja notice the mod said "no matter what info the PM contains" which implies to me that you could have been lying about it and he just didn't want to say it outright. honestly he should have just ignored it but maestro is maestro after all

and jacob is a fucking moron whether or not your slot's town

so it doesn't clear you in the least for taking advantage of his cuntitude

I don't get how the fuck that would imply to you that I had been lying about it, and quite frankly I don't care either because you've already proven to be incapable of rational thinking, ignoring things I say that disprove your own hypothesis.

I'm clear. The question is only if enough people in this game are well-enough equipped, conceptually speaking, to comprehend how I cannot be scum because I would not defame a person who isn't even part of the game by claiming that he has been breaking site-rules. In fact, I'm not even sure that doing so wouldn't be against the rules and thus would have gotten me a warning or a ban. In short: you're wrong and I'm beginning to think that you're incapable of understanding why.

[buldermar]

whoever pointed out that rev starts lashing out at any target in reach, once suspicion gets directed towards him, was actually right

Ofc I'm right - the question is whether or not this is indicative of alignment. I'm not 100% certain, but I still think he's a good lynch for today.

oh that was you

yea i never remember

who

said stuff, just vaguely remember that it was said

Then you have chosen the wrong game to play.

[buldermar]

Okay, except that if JS sent no PM to Buldermar that's libel and it's going to ruin a reputation. If there's not an actual rule against gambitting this way it still violates the spirit of our community rules. I think you'd best retire that Uber.

As I expected, there would be people in this game well-enough equipped, conceptually speaking, to understand why I wouldn't do something as unethical as claiming that a person who isn't part of the game has been breaking a site-wide rule. Thank you, zabriel, for taking your time using your brain to actively think about this situation rather than blindly following the lead of someone who's stuck in confirmation bias, namely Uber Ninja.

[buldermar]

It might get him this game, and then when he can't show us the PM everybody thinks he's evil and refuses to play with him for the rest of time. This is not a viable strategy.

You don't have to worry. I'm a person of high ethical standards and I really do feel insulted that someone would blindly assume otherwise.

Uber Ninja, instead of blindly assuming that I'm extremely unethical, why don't you ask some of the players I have played multiple games with before if I have ever done something unethical to give me an unfair advantage in a game? As I've already stated in this game, I don't even intentionally stall for time by lurking when doing so would be to my advantage, although that would be an entirely reasonable thing to do.

[buldermar]

buldey what am I going to do with you

UNVOTE: majiffy

I have plenty of ideas!

Forgive me if you have clearly stated this already, but do you have any scum reads and if yes, who?

[buldermar]

This is not how things work. Claims are WIFOM, as is most of everything else in this game.

Mafia will claim what will keep them alive, or get an important town player lynched

Unless doing so will get themselves lynched, in which case they'll claim the exact opposite. It's WIFOM.

[buldermar]

You're over thinking that. Like I said, mafia will claim what will keep them alive. VT, in that scenario, would keep them alive. There is no way to doublethink that. I understand you can apply WIFOM to just about anything (like the brownies that claim "Just add water"), but it's not smart to add it here. Doesn't make sense to add a power role in right now for them.

This is

not

a matter of opinion.

What keeps scum alive depends on what will get them lynched. Specifically, that which keeps them alive is

exactly

what remains when one substract that which gets them lynched from the total pool of options.

In this case, our pool of options is {VT-claim, powerrole-claim}. Either there is a general rule that can be applied (e.g., VT-claim is always scum and powerrole-claim is always town) or there isn't. In case there is, you merely apply that rule and can thus succesfully decide when a claim is coming from a scum and when a claim is coming from a town. In case there isn't, we're talking about an equilibrium, specifically one refered to in this context as WIFOM. In this case, there is no general rule encompassing both options, which is just another way of saying that it boils down to a case of WIFOM.

A final note: WIFOM isn't some ingredient you can add or apply to a scenario. Scenarios can't be "more or less" WIFOM. Each individual scenario in its simplest form is either a WIFOM scenario or not, just as each statement in its simplest form is either correct or incorrect (law of the excluded middle).

[buldermar]

I really really really really think majiffy is scum and I think you are wrong about him. next is uber goober. I have been trying to get those 2 lynched for the entire day round but the same shit keeps happening that happened in the homestuck game; there are peeps who are too chickenshit to go after strong players.

Well my vote is currently on Uber Goober and I'm not looking to change it.

[buldermar]

buldey did gib explain how he and I do things? there is a reason for the divagib meme. I would like to find at least one player on this site to develope that kind of relationship with...majiffy and nacho are too stubborn and mantis has always been off doing her own thing although occasionally she will listen to me, I am more flexible than she is and it is me usually having to compromise and listen to her. but anyways since I know you have worked with gib it is something that I hope you will consider. gib and I win games and that is no lie.

No you have not explained to me how you and Gib do things. How do you do things?

[buldermar]

Buldamar, why are you keeping your vote there if there's, like, 0 chance of it happening today?

I want a VC and/or a claim before switching.

[buldermar]

... in fear of hammering.

[buldermar]

I really really really really think majiffy is scum and I think you are wrong about him. next is uber goober. I have been trying to get those 2 lynched for the entire day round but the same shit keeps happening that happened in the homestuck game; there are peeps who are too chickenshit to go after strong players.

Well my vote is currently on Uber Goober and I'm not looking to change it.

For the record: You voted me for reasons of zab's which were totally stupid, and I rebutted them and called him out on his reasons being totally stupid, and he unvoted.

This is incorrect.

[buldermar]

buldey did gib explain how he and I do things? there is a reason for the divagib meme. I would like to find at least one player on this site to develope that kind of relationship with...majiffy and nacho are too stubborn and mantis has always been off doing her own thing although occasionally she will listen to me, I am more flexible than she is and it is me usually having to compromise and listen to her. but anyways since I know you have worked with gib it is something that I hope you will consider. gib and I win games and that is no lie.

No you have not explained to me how you and Gib do things. How do you do things?

I guess gib did not explain it?

we work as a pair and when we can get town reads off of each other we target the same player by questioning them and seeing how it feels. we usually manage to form a town cabal on d1 and gain control of the lynches. we used to do this with raven too until she made a quantum leap and no longer needs us, lol.

also

to my mason third. I think you should think about outing so that I can confirm you. I don't trust these people not to lynch you if I wind up dead.

I would ask him if you get the chance

I would, but I feel like it is unfair to do while this game is still ongoing.

[buldermar]

Mollie just out your mason. You're guaranteed town and this will save a wasted investigation.

QFT

[buldermar]

It's a bad wagon because I'm town, but if it's going to happen it should just happen. What is the vote count?

We're fucking lynching rev or Uber Ninja tomorrow -_-

VOTE: zabriel

[buldermar]

Good god. Someone tl;dr the last 12 pages for me.

Nobody except me, Vifam and maybe 1 or 2 others were willing to lynch Rev. I defended you. Others decided that zab is the best alternative and people started voting. Also mollie is secretly in love with me and Uber Ninja insists that I may be doing some crazy gambit in which I defame JacobSavage by claiming that I have received a PM from him and that he broke a site-wide rule.

[buldermar]

If Zab flips town I'm just gonna be really stubborn the rest of the game

So am I.

[buldermar]

So, now that I'm flipping town, what are you guys doing tomorrow?

I'm heading to the uni at ~11:45 AM to do an assignment on developmental psychology with my three other group members. Then I'm heading to the doctors for a brief visit. Then I'll go workout for about one and a half hour. Then I have a date at her place ~7:00 PM. Voila

[buldermar]

Oh, and the doctors is at 3:50 PM.

[buldermar]

What about you, zabriel? What are you going to do tomorrow once you've flipped town?

[buldermar]

I'll have time to check the game in the morning and after my workout, at the very least..

[buldermar]

What

I say what what

[buldermar]

Upon being Lynched or dying overnight, players may make one "Bah!"-type post after they are officially dead. This post may not contain game-related information or any knowledge they may have of the game's setup or the other players. This rule will be enforced by a Modkill or other action that would harm the offending player's faction. (e.g. Deus Ex Roleblock, Insta-Night, etc.)

Spoiler:

Bah

[buldermar]

Oh so I was right about UberNinja.. good to know :O

Congratulations and thanks for the game! =)