NY 171: An Education in Telling Jokes (Game Over!)

[pirate mollie]

not to mention the why me fry me post

[pirate mollie]

I thought it was when 1 scumbuddy hard defends another 1

mebbe you shld teach meh

[pirate mollie]

I thought it was when 1 scumbuddy hard defends another 1

mebbe you shld teach meh

kinda

The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".
The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense.

In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town.

The extreme form of this tell is Mutual Chainsaw Defense, where two players defend each other by attacking each others' attackers. This is a major scumtell, and Tarhalindur would be willing to lynch/vig both players with only this tell as justification.
The Chainsaw Defense is named after the mental image of a player ripping apart another player with a chainsaw for daring to attack his ally. It should not be confused with the Cochrane Defense, which can also be referred to as the Chainsaw Defense (the Wiki refers to the Cochrane Defense this way), which is a gambit made by players investigated as scum. The Chainsaw Defense can also be referred to as the Bodyguard Defense in order to prevent confusion.
UPDATE: After further analysis, Tarhalindur has determined that the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell. Mutual Chainsaw Defense may, however, still be an outright scumtell; more research is required here.

wrt the bold, okay so it is not specified to defending a scummate but other than that do you think that I am wrong in thinking that is what yates is doing?

[pirate mollie]

okay so if she flips town then where are you looking at?

[pirate mollie]

jesus christ ut you cannot tell me that you missed like an obvious thing like this in the above post:

A chainsaw is defending a scum buddy by attacking your scum buddy's attacker.

after that is what I said and he argued that I used it wrong and then you corrected a nuanced aspect to that tell by supplying info from somewhere (you did not reference it) but now he is agreeing with the defo in which it was originally applied

hahlp

[pirate mollie]

mollie listen

I'm not going to try to apply relational tells to players based on unflipped players

once mala flips I will reevaluate. until then it's a distraction to me.

OKAY I WILL NOT BE DISTRACTED BY THE SHINY THINGS BUT THEY ARE REALLY SHINY

[pirate mollie]

huh!

[pirate mollie]

In class. Will zip through and produce 2-3 scumz by the end of day.

so when is this gonna happen

[pirate mollie]

why ut?

he wants marquis's blood who is in your scumreads list. so do you think they are crossbussing?

nika is a popular bw are you voting for him I can't remember

[pirate mollie]

Why is he trying to lynch Mala if he reads Marquis as scum? Also its more of a gut thing atm. I could wifom you with inconclusive posts, but I think he's leading us away from the prize.

which is what prize

cos I can't remember which 1 you are going for

[pirate mollie]

oh xposts

[pirate mollie]

so ut you really think mala is scum?

[pirate mollie]

okay! well I needed you to spell it out for me

[pirate mollie]

jesus christ ut you cannot tell me that you missed like an obvious thing like this

Well... aside from knowing wtf I'm talking about, there's a wiki link.

did you srsly just forget that you agreed with me on what a chainsaw defense was and somehow managed to miss that ut already supplied the intel on that?

[pirate mollie]

like this is what I have to say on it:

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE:

[pirate mollie]

I am wallowing in self-pity I am not in the mood to vote any1 right now

[pirate mollie]

you've been lurking all game not just when you were sick

try again

^ this

oh wait am I buddying ut now

I voted you yesterday mala and then you omgus voted me so I am not sure what dumb point that you are trying to make except either how truly awful you are at reading me or that you are scum. <--- I m thinking the latter.

that post was so bad it hurts

@ notty

I am here.

[pirate mollie]

You are buddying life.

Yes, you voted me after I voted you. DON'T EVEN YOU VOTED ME AFTER I VOTED YOU AND THEN ATTEMPTED TO SELFVOTE AFTER THAT.

erm, no.

I didn't even remember you were playing.

I would feel wonderful lynching you I think.

VOTE: mala

nu.

VOTE: Mollie

try again

[pirate mollie]

stating intent to hammer

notty if you wanna talk get in here

also if mala flips scum I might help ut in his marquis crusade.

[pirate mollie]

Poro, Mollie - I'm not scum ;-;

Pls don't lynch me

you had me as scum like 5 minutes ago and now you are treating me as town? lol

prozack wtf are you doing

[pirate mollie]

scum, masons, neighbors, etc

[pirate mollie]

we are lynching her I am waiting for notty before I hammer

[pirate mollie]

cos I want to get a read on him.

[pirate mollie]

ut we are so in tune this game it is scary

NOTTY I AM LOSING PATIENCE

[pirate mollie]

I wasn't ready yet.

[pirate mollie]

notty I don't have those good feels about you

[pirate mollie]

I agree with elyse, I would rather see sera dead first

[pirate mollie]

no

and it makes me sad

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: serra

[pirate mollie]

you know what?

I wanna see if I was right in my early scumread on nika was right. I can't remember why i let that go

does anybody have a recent vc

[pirate mollie]

I think I want to go back to lynching serra.

VOTE: serra

I am not happy with notty.

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: ut

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: elyse

[pirate mollie]

yeah I could do elyse or ut

[pirate mollie]

I have no idea what spy party is

[pirate mollie]

I bussed my roleblocker D1 and then bussed my encryptor D3

seems good

PEdit:
shit, you're right. wasn't I in a game with you where all your reads were wrong and you spent the whole game calling me scum and then we lost

am I thinking of someone else!?

must be a different person cos in bipolar mafia my reads were terrible and we won

[pirate mollie]

yeah I could do elyse

Why elyse? I'm kind of reading her as Town. There are too many people playing scummy right now and she doesn't crack the top 4.

Also, iirc Marquis *still* has some 'splainin to do.

I did not like her avoiding crayon creatures questions and then saying "I DON'T TRUST YOUR MOTIVATIONS!" without ever throwing suspicion his way. the defensiveness did not match with the reason she gave for avoiding the questions in the first place. she hasn't been scumreading him at all this iirc

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: serra

[pirate mollie]

altho I want lynch elyse cos I srsly think she is scum guyz

[pirate mollie]

so why are you not voting serra, yates?

[pirate mollie]

ut but elyse

[pirate mollie]

Mollie what is the scum motivation in my actions

scum always try to avoid questions when they can?

just off the top of my head

goddammit but yates looks objectively scummier but the 1 game I played with him when he was scum he put forth effort and made sense at a time when it was weird to do so.

[pirate mollie]

ut you wanted marquis's blood what changed your mind

[pirate mollie]

okay

if I vote is this a hammer

eta: I guess not

UNVOTE:

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: ut

[pirate mollie]

you are srsly freaking me out

[pirate mollie]

so I guess it IS going to be bipolar mafia all over again, isn't it mollie?

you've spent this whole damn game ignoring scum lynches and tilting at windmills that NO ONE ELSE CARES ABOUT and I guess I'm just your latest one

it's fine, we can win this game without you

I wanted mala lynched. try again

[pirate mollie]

I wasn't against the zekrom lynch, I just thought cabd was scum with him. :tinfoilhat:

fuck it.

VOTE: yates[/votes]

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: yates

my fuck it would have been so much more effective if I had not screwed up the vote tags

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE: yates[/votes]

yeah no ut

I am back to letting the you freak me out vibes percolate

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE: yates

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: serra

[pirate mollie]

like I just can't quite shake the feeling that you and rc are scum together and she is doing that retarded thing that newb scum sometimes do which is to trolleytrack on a teammate the entire game with little impetus except their vote. scum tend to be stickier with their votes and I am surprised that you are not considering that rc might actually be scum.

[pirate mollie]

mebbe cos you were selling it as a utility lynch. which I found to be weird

[pirate mollie]

star pwned me in like 3 games in a row when he was scum I was butthurt and paranoid.

but yeah it was pretty who started that anyway

[pirate mollie]

* pretty bad

[pirate mollie]

Also, I would really like for NS to appear and start posting. Either that or replace that slot again because holy crap.... thats ridiculous.

FUCKING NOTTY I FORGOT ABOUT HIM

NOTTY IS SCUM

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: notty

[pirate mollie]

where is your notty vote ut

[pirate mollie]

but notty is scum

[pirate mollie]

okay great HE'LL STILL BE SCUM TOMORROW

are you like hardcore townreading serra?

of course not.

but notty is scumzorz

[pirate mollie]

hey guyz I think serra looks scummy but I really really think notty is scum.

lets lynch him.

[pirate mollie]

why

cos I said so

[pirate mollie]

you know I'm going to need more than that.

since when do you need more? usually you are all like OMG CAN WE JUST SOME1 I DON'T CARE WHO LYNCH THEM I JUST WANT SOMETHING TO SEE SOMETHING DEAD ARE THEY DEAD YET WHY AREN'T THEY DEAD ARE THEY DEAD YET HOW ABOUT NOW

so why is notty so special? do you have a town read on him?

[pirate mollie]

Ooh, I'm not actually dead. Thank god people can't count.

I'd appreciate a bit of time to give some parting thoughts if people are still intent on getting my lynch through.

Yates might be scum. I've probably been a bit tunnely on him, but my gut says he's scum. notty looks like a good candidate for scum, too. Also, tman and maybe Ythan and Elyse.

UT, RC and mollie are still town, as are pisskop and Marquis, but the latter is irritating...

what is sucky about your reads the entire game is that your scum pool has always been too large and you make no effort to try to work things out. <---- this is why I personally have wanted you lynched. there is also a distinct lack of progression in your reads like when did I become town.

if you are town then all I got to say is when the hell did you start playing so

badly

. I mean this is really bad for you cos I know you are not a shitty town player.

[pirate mollie]

ftr I want a notty lynch over you

[pirate mollie]

Mollie trying really hard for Serra to not be/flip scum.

this is mollie trying to work things out you fucking idiot

[pirate mollie]

if serra flips town I accept every1's apologies.

I thought he was starting to town flail and was trying to sort him

you guys srsly suck

notty is still scum btw

[pirate mollie]

so why is notty so special? do you have a town read on him?

Is this seriously your response to you derailing a Serra lynch at L-1? That's cheeky.

Not to mention this works both ways...

In fact, where have I seen this before?

okay great HE'LL STILL BE SCUM TOMORROW

are you like hardcore townreading serra?

okay great HE'LL STILL BE SCUM TOMORROW

are you like hardcore townreading serra?

of course not.

but notty is scumzorz

hey guyz I think serra looks scummy but I really really think notty is scum.

lets lynch him.

@Mollie- if this doesn't prove to you that your vote is silly when we have a perfectly good lynch candidate up, then you are just being deliberately hard headed.

I agree that NS lurkerscum is a good lynch. Hell, I even pointed out that lurkerscum was in the game still but that wasn't so we could derail a wagon from L-1 just to vote someone who isn't any better of a lynch then Serra. Please focus and be town.

notty only lurks as scum when I am in the game you dummy

I wasn't townreading serra but I went to check to see how he was in the game where we both subbed in as scum. as scum he tries waaaay harder usually. I was trying to sort him and you guys just lynched him. his play was dismal I will admit but as scum he usually tries harder.

[pirate mollie]

no one will owe you SHIT if he flips town

I didn't say you owe me shit I said I will accept your apologies.

I am cooking dinner which is why my responses were slow. is a little bit of time too fucking much to ask?

[pirate mollie]

my penis is 13 inches long

why do you seem to think we will both be alive tomorrow? that freaks me out but your indignation feels genuine.

notty tomorrow then.

[pirate mollie]

I am trying hard to fight off the paranoia that you and notty are scum together

like I really am

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: notty

[pirate mollie]

Yeah I'm going to trust mollie on this one.

VOTE: notscience

Happy UT died. I was getting nervous about him.

I didn't like this post cos I am racking my brain to try to remember if elyse has ever trusted a read of mine in a game and I can't remember any.

[pirate mollie]

pirate mollie have been prodded

bad mollie.

word of warning: you really don't want to piss me off right now

notty ignored the shit out of this game and me and when have you

EVER

known him to do that.

his lynch should be a no-brainer IMO the hammer is just being dragged out cos people are being dummies so there really isn't much else to post

[pirate mollie]

ythan I am not sure what your beef with that crayon creature is he is pretty freaking obvtown

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

until the replacements have a chance to read and catch up but any1 who attempts to derail will face the fury

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE:

[pirate mollie]

his beef with you seems to come from you goading him at some point. I have you both as town so I mostly ignored the details of your exchanges. crayon creature has been 1 of my strongest town read for a while

[pirate mollie]

It being killing, they're killing the killing.

and you claim crayon creature doesn't make sense

[pirate mollie]

The slot isn't scum, mollie, ns has been lurking in all of his games from the looks of it.

this is not true. he has been actively posting elsewhere on site.

[pirate mollie]

Also, reading through that Day 3 again made me realize we should lynch pisskop.

And if pisskop flips town we should lynch UT and if pisskop flips scum UT is basically conftown.

Based on your Day 3 reading, do you think the reverse of your flip-reveal holds true -- that is, now that UT is flipped town, pisskop's replacement is likely scum?

I think pisskop is likely scum but not because of UT's flip.

why?

[pirate mollie]

wat happened to "bad mollie"

[pirate mollie]

can some1 unvote plz

nacho why did you ask me to move my vote to notscienekagami when you are not even voting them?

[pirate mollie]

I am happy with ether kagami or nacho lynched at this point.

elyse do you wanna lynch nacho? it will be fun

ythan I think crayon creature is just 1 of those players who is just a little bit out there. <--- I personally like these types of players they make the game more interesting but they are not the easiest to read. crayon has been pretty transparent with his thought processes tho and is bumping up against the tide with the sort of conviction that I usually find in town.

[pirate mollie]

what the hell is wrong with you 2 in that you don't try to sort out the alignment of a player all you wanna do is lynch lynch lynch who cares if they might be on your team.

ythan he did explain his reads. I am not sure how you are not seeing that.

deathy your last post was very very icky. it sounds like you are leaning town on kagami so why do you want to lynch her

[pirate mollie]

where is your vote on kagami nacho?

[pirate mollie]

Like I'm unable to tell if he is actually so stupid that it is impossible to discern his alignment. If he can't read the thread and just smashes his face on the keyboard in response to every new mysterious-sequence-of-letters, what hope is there that he is even aware of the contents of his own role pm.

ythan this is what you are doing too. I get that it comes from frustration in not understanding some1.

kagami and nacho are scum. plz vote 1 of them

love,

mollie

[pirate mollie]

why did you not hammer when you could have.

VOTE: nacho

[pirate mollie]

ythan are you talking about nacho?

nacho is scumzzzzz

scum can make good points; that defines good scum. they can manipulate you into voting your grandmother. nacho is like that.

PLZ DON'T KILL YOUR GRANDMOTHER

I am good with the kagami vote!

just fucking promise me you will not let nacho live

[pirate mollie]

People are trolling me by playing musical chairs on the Kagami wagon and never actually bringing her to L-1?
Yeah, I know.

why did you not hammer when you could have.

VOTE: nacho

In my first two posts of the game before reading notscience's ISO?
Because I wanted to read something before hammering?

cos you asked me to vote kagami

had you read the game then?

cos you did so without a vote

[pirate mollie]

please.
please please please please

I want to show how scummy you are before you freaking nk me

eta: what is the significance around you hammering

[pirate mollie]

you move into the night round without discussion on the replacement slots.

I am guessing you want this for

they aren't going to get it and it sucks

eta: you are such cheeky scum

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: kagami

fucking treat my read on nacho as a cop claim

[pirate mollie]

NACHO IS SCUM

PLZ FUCKING LYNCH HIM

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE:

IF IT STILL COUNTS

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: NACHO

[pirate mollie]

I WANNA SEE YOU LYNCHED YOU CHEEKY SCUMFUCK