Mafia 67 - Abandoned!

[Thestatusquo]

Sup. No random vote, going with a different vibe this game. Also, hawks are the noblest of birds.

[Thestatusquo]

vote: jordan

It's often a tactic of scum to comment on how unfortunate the night kill victim is.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not a big fan of random votes either. Just my opinion.

Vote: Jordan

for making early assumptions about who did the Night 1 killing

FOS: Statusquo

for saying "Hawks are the noblest of birds." Am I missing something? Or is a cryptic comment like that some kind of code? Explain.

This is such a typical noob sentiment. It goes something like this. "OMG IT'S SOMETHING I DON'T UNDERSTAND! IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY CORRELATION TO SCUM PLAY OR TOWN PLAY, SO I'M GOING TO DECIDE TO FIND IT SUSPICIOUS."

THis means two things to me.

1) That you're kinda dumb for not understanding how scumtells work.

2) You're probably town because you seem to be looking for things in earnest and attempting to get the game out of the random stage.

[Thestatusquo]

Also, I would like to note that I will NOT let this game turn into a "lets lynch battle mage because we can." type of affair. My opinion of battle mage is well known, but all of you who are pressuring him for no reason and saying things like "I really wouldn't mind lynching BM right now" (a LYNCH!!! On page fucking 4!!!!) are really hitting my scumdar.

[Thestatusquo]

Well, 2 things.

First, a bit of clarification, my statement was at least in part pre-emptive. I have seen so many games BM is in where the scumz just easily force a d1 lynch of him and come out completely clean. I am saying they will not have such an easy time this game.

Second, neither of these wagons are really huge. Considering this is a ridiculously huge game, just random voting will tend to put 3-6 votes on players, which I fail to see as a particularly huge thing.

[Thestatusquo]

Was there some point to that post, or are you just posting to seem like you're helping?

[Thestatusquo]

@iaretheman

You're straw manning me, my friend. My point was never that he was dumb for not understanding, I said he was dumb for attacking (read, FOSing) something simply because he did not understand it. This is a noob town tell to me, but that doesn't make it any less of a dumb thing to do.

@thefonz and battle mage

I really don't find this discussion of a game past to be particularly helpful. If the two of you could discuss this game, then I would be quite grateful.

@plump

2) There's no telling if you are scum based on that one non sequitor (hence I didn't vote for you), but I asked the question, planted the FOS, and noted it for all others to see when and if you do other scummy things.

Thats exactly the point, though. It's a FOS, which means that you found it at least in a small way, suspicious. Which means that you think something is suspicious merely because you do not understand my motivations for doing so. Why would you plant the FOS at all? Why not just ask a question?

Since something is only scummy if it has some net benefit to the scum, or because there is some reason scum would do it more often then town, I see absolutely no reason why what I said could be considered "Scummy" by the traditional sense of the word, and yet your post references me doing "more" scummy things. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but up to the point of your attack my posts consist of two things: Substantive discussion in an attempt to move us out of the random stage, and attacks on people who I feel are not doing that. Since we have already established that my stating something which you do not personally understand can not at all be construed as scummy, then what in gods name could you be referring to (hint, it's not me refusing to answer you, because that happened after the initial attack.)

And as a last point, I ignored your question, because I do not really see a reason to answer it.

@hijallti

I asked you a rather pointed question. I would like some sort of response besides silence.

[Thestatusquo]

TSQ:

It was simply terrible town play, BM, and that's the last I'm going to say on the matter. I mean it this time. I will just lalala all your posts from hereonin.

Because going lalalalala to make a point, while you're refusing to discuss anything worth while is MUCH better than discussing past games.

[Thestatusquo]

I agree, and I think tars last post was a good one.

[Thestatusquo]

Thats exactly the point, though. It's a FOS, which means that you found it at least in a small way, suspicious. Which means that you think something is suspicious merely because you do not understand my motivations for doing so. Why would you plant the FOS at all? Why not just ask a question?

..I see absolutely no reason why what I said could be considered "Scummy" by the traditional sense of the word, and yet your post references me doing "more" scummy things.

What I said was, I put the FOS down for the record. Then,

IF

you do more scummy things in the future, I'll add those to the list. I just didn't want that stupid hawks or eagels comment or whatever to slide by without mention.

If you would have answered the question ("oh, it's a little joke me and so and so have"), I'd have probably dropped the FOS and moved on. But your refusal to answer compounded the situation.

Anyway...enough on this, we've beat it to death.

First of all: No, thats not what you said. Theres a huge difference between saying "If you do scummy things." And "when and if you do MORE scummy things." You see more has the connotation that scummyness has already occurred, as does the FOS. Are you telling me you just use FOS's inCASE someone does something scummy down the line? In that case you would have FOS'd the whole game by now. You're back tracking and being non sensical.

The hawk comment slide? What are you TALKING ABOUT. That comment would only make sense if the hawk comment were scummy, because otherwise theres no reason to bring my comment to anyone elses attention. Since it isn't, theres really nothing to "let slide."

Second, you still haven't explained why the FOS was necessary. You could have "Not let it slide," or whatever quite easily by asking a question, as I have done with Hij, for instance. Your FOS poisons my well by throwing suspicion on me. Suspicion which was and is completely unwarranted. This is evidenced by whats his face attempting to jump on the bandwagon, which you then said you thought was "a good vote." Don't play coy with me, you're pressuring me, or trying to, and I do not at all see a reason why.

ANd now you want me to drop this? I'm sorry, but thats not the way a game of mafia works. In mafia, you take positions. You take them based on what you believe. You can't just start backing away from them just because your target isn't as easy as you would like them to be.

Vote: bobbyplump

[Thestatusquo]

Tarhalindur Note: I've just got word that I'm going to be on vacation from August 4-12. I'm 90% sure that I'll have no Internet access at that time.

Mod

, if that's going to be a problem then you should probably start looking for a (temporary?) replacement.

I don't think 8 days in a large normal is a problem.

I would really appreciate it if you did game relevent things instead of answering questions directed at the mod. I would have no problem if you did it amongst analysis, but it is the sole purpose of your post.

[Thestatusquo]

I am a huge fan of the entirety of the fonzes last post. It mirrors my feelings on Albert right now entirely.

Moving on, Undo, what the hell. If you think the game is too big, then you ought to ask for replacement, not vote whomever has the largest amounts of votes on them just because "its a bandwagon." Have you even considered the possibility that that bandwagon was either formed randomly or by possible scum? IF you're going to get off my shit list, you're going to have to start thinking.

[Thestatusquo]

It's not wifom at all. Wifom only refers to situations where the 2 possibilities have roughly equal possibilities. I would say at this point that we can be almost 90% certain AR supposed scum mates are not bussing him. They may be voting him right now, but they are certainly not pushing for his lynch.

At this point, early in the day, any scummer worth his salt is not going to bus his scum mate this early in a wagon which is a) Mostly random and b) got some major points against it. The main thing to lookat is does ABR have a good chance of being lynched from this wagon? I would say no, so I would say the scum buddies are not executing "BUS RIGHT NOW!" strategy.

The MOST important thing to look at is what motivation ABR had for making that comment. I'm racking my brain and I'm finding it hard to think of one.

[Thestatusquo]

What was the point of the comment, however?

[Thestatusquo]

Major FOS: Undo

Second, why on earth would you think claiming at 5-6 votes in a 16 to lynch situation would be a good plan? For you, or for anyone involved.

[Thestatusquo]

Just a quick point, the REAL PJ plays on these boards, so People might get a bit confused by your referring to me as him. Refer to me as Shea or TSQ, please.

[Thestatusquo]

Um...Its an abreviation...You're free to call me thestatusquo. In fact, that's what I meant by tsq...I think you're still stuck in game mode, because there was no reason to attack me there...Unless you think it's scummy that my name becomes abbreviated some times...

[Thestatusquo]

Major FOS: Undo

Second, why on earth would you think claiming at 5-6 votes in a 16 to lynch situation would be a good plan?

Who said claim would be a good plan? Definitely not Undo...

And Niv, who exactly is BJ? I think it would help if you wrote (more of) people´s full names.

My post was a bit unclear. I apologize. The FOS undo is unrelated to the claiming point, which is directed at ABR.

[Thestatusquo]

Vote: Undo

[Thestatusquo]

Explain why you feel like voting Undo?

[Thestatusquo]

His vote on me was unreasonable and came without explanation whatsoever.

Then why didn't you vote me? My vote on Undo was not explained.

[Thestatusquo]

I am not voting undo because of his vote. I am voting undo for something much more substantive.

[Thestatusquo]

So, are you even reading the thread? Just askin.

[Thestatusquo]

Albert is not the play today for several reasons.

Reason one: His claim is a load of bullhonkery. At first, he claimed vig basically by falling ass backwards, it didn't seem to be planned to me, and it didn't seem to have any rhyme or reason either. Fonz said somethint to the effect of it being a blatent vig hint to threaten people voting you, but thats not entirely true. It's a blatent DAY-vig hint. Since no one has died yet, of this huge wagon, I find that hard to believe. Therefore I am forced to believe he is not a vig.

Reason two: His sk claim is shady, and he seems to be only egging it on as some sort of joke. I see it unlikely he would claim SK if he were actually a sk, and see it even more unlikely that he would do so as mafia, so here-in lies the problem, I cannot bring myself to think ABR is an anti town player in this game.

So the first concrete reason I see not to vote him is I simply do not believe him. I think this is him having a joke, or playing some sort of strange gambit.

Secondly, I think we can leave him alive one night. You know why? Because no vig in his right mind would leave Mr. Rampage alive. We are essentially wasting a lynch, in my mind, on a person which we can kill out his entire alignment at any time we want to, when we could be hunting mafia. I would much rather look at Bobbyplump or Undo right now, as I think they may be MAFIA which is way more dangerous to us then an outed SK.

People attacking Kscope are being more than a little dumb. The only way that "Defending a SK." is a scum tell is if they were mason SK partners. Theres no incentive that exists for scum to defend A claimed SK that does not also exist for town, so quit your griping.

[Thestatusquo]

*sigh* Bobby, you couldn't list one reason to be suspicious of me day one if I asked you to. If you go back and read the posts between us, you will find that I owned you almost completely and totally in that debate.

Now, what you bring up...the pbpa. First, let me say that day two is WAY too early to try to piece together connections in a game this big. This is because with this many players EVERYone has interactions with everyone else.

Second, the interaction you're bringing up with me and fonz isn't really particularly damning. If you're trying to claim I'm distancing, than this "
- TSQ says he is a "huge fan of the entirety of Fonz's last post'" Doesn't jive with your theory. And if you're attempting to say that I was buddying up with him, my continued attacking of his refusing to discuss the game makes no sense from that context, so my "link" as you put it between him is almost completely neutral.

In fact, I have much higher levels of interaction with both you, AND undo. If you were trying to make a case of people being linked, you and I would be much more likely to be scumates than I am fonz.

Heres the kicker. I think that you're trying to push the lynch towards some with a PBPA because you're interaction with the fonz is much more indicative of distancing. I do not know, but I suspect that you left quite a bit out of your "Full" analysis of his posts, and I intend to check that very thoroughly when I get back to my own house.

As for now,

Fos:bobbyplump

Vote later if I find you fabricated evidence.

[Thestatusquo]

Because thats what town players DO, bobby. They say what they agree and disagree with. Especially this is true on day one, when players search for nearly anything to get them out of the random voting stage. Fonz was playing a good game trying to appear town.

Now, I asked you a question, bobby. Find ONE point from yesterday in our discussion that says I'm scum. One thing you won. I'm waiting.

Tar, repeat the question?

[Thestatusquo]

I think at this point of the game I am completely uncertain of the allignment of battle mage. I don't think he has done anything overtly towny or scummy this game. Indeed, if I had my druthers, I would rather look at players ideas towards BM than BM himself to catch scum, because I feel like BM plays like a town hurting idiot either way.

[Thestatusquo]

1. Before I ever even logged into this game, you announced you weren't going to random vote this time around. About an hour and a half later, you cast a random vote.

My vote was not random. Also, explain to me why this is beneficial to scum and not to town.

2. You refused to answer my question.

I refused to answer your question because it would be bad for the town to do so. Perhaps you're not familiar with the concept of bread crumbing. This just proves my point that your mindset is that "anti town" means something you do not have the capability to understand. It's a stupid way to play mafia, and thats why I have been so frustrated with you.

As it so happens, I WILL now explain the comment. Mastermind of sin (Whos SN happens to J

HAWK

) were angry at Blahgo from previous things hes done, so we were going to fake post restricted masons in this game. The post was a fake bread crumb to this fact. We did not go through with the plan because I started to enjoy the game and called the whole thing off. This is in addition to his dying. However, the point still stands. This is exactly the kind of breadcrumb I would leave giving away my real role, can you see why it is actually pro town not to answer your stupid, ILL concieved question?

3. You said I was dumb, but then said, "You're probably town because you seem to be looking for things in earnest and attempting to get the game out of the random stage."

That response seems peculiar to me, like you were trying to gain my trust by saying, "You're probably town." Of course, scum would know that I'm town.

So wait! Me pointing out what I think is a town tell is anti town behavior? Where are you getting these. LOL. Let me clue you in on how mafia works. In order to determine alignment, people analyze other peoples behaviors under the calculus of "Is this more likely to be done by scum or town." Then they SHARE those thoughts with the rest of the town, so that the town can reach a discussion on who to lynch. Hmmm...Looks like I was doing a pretty town thing, there, eh?

Recap: I said the FOS was so I could refer back to it "when and if you do other scummy things"

And I would go back and show you the quote where I owned you on this, stating that I had not in fact done anything scummy, so saying when and if and other is a mild scum tell, because it;s muddying my well by saying I have been scummy when I haven't. But I'm sure you can all find that post yourselves.

1. Continued to refuse to answer the question, which was all I wanted.

Already explained that just because you do not understand something does not give it an overt benefit to scum.

2. Started arguing semantics about my phrase "other scummy things". You said that must have meant I thought the non sequitur was scummy, and claims I admitted it wasn't scummy.

In fact, I never said your phrase wasn't scummy. I said it alone could not prove you to be scum.

LOL! SO NOW IT'S SCUMMY TO POINT OUT A SCUM TELL YOU MADE! AHAHAHAHA. Thats complete and total OMGUS. You poisoned my well by saying I was scummier than I was, so when I pointed it out, it's scummy. WOW. Folks, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST. Playing the game of mafia is scummy. No town tells OR scum tells can be pointed out, because only scum would do that, right. The town should just play in total darkness not knowing what anyone else thinks. Are you even LISTENING to yourself?

3. You started arguing with Fonz about a non-game-related thing (him saying 'lalalala' to ABR).

I've found that when scum tend to argue, they argue about non game-related things to make it look like they are arguing while really not.

Actually. I was arguing that it WAS game related. He was refusing to discuss that game, and talking about a previous game, and then going LALALALA. I pointed out that, and correct me if I'm wrong, that scum like to keep the random stage going, so it was scummy of the fonz to keep the random stage going by not discussing the game. Hm, I'm sorry. I guess that saying someone is scummy is not game related. I'll try to remember that in the furture.

4. You start arguing semantics again, typing a lot of words, but not actually saying anything. Case in point, an excerpt from post 170:

This is another case of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALA" It's not the same as fonz, but it IS you trying to not listen to reason.

5. The Fonz - the known mafiate - jumps in to your aid, also arguing about the language of "when and if other scummy things."

[/quote]

Let me explain something else about the game, Players make comments on who they think is RIGHT in a mafia game, because this is called discussion. If someone is wrong or right, I WILL POINT IT OUT. A mafia member, trying to appear town is going to agree and disagree with other members. The fact that you think it damning is, frankly, laughable.


But we'll have a test. Right here and now.

Everyone, I've quoted and responded to BPlumps post right here. I don't think he's scum, just missguided, so will you please all post, and in that post include either Support: TSQ or Support: Plump

At everyone else. Why is no one considering the possibility that the face ripper is perhaps a vig. Maybe with a compulsed kill or something? I mean, while we're discussing all sorts of random things (like a more violent mafie?) this makes as much sense to me. I mean, they're taking out mafia members, aren't they?