NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[catboi]

/'firm

[catboi]

VOTE: TheWorst

It's probably him

[catboi]

Choof is acting like town though.

This is not an assessment I'd make

tone and presence. I would have had a pretty decent town read on you because of the avatar post but you seem to be pretty self conscious

Lmao how is this supposed to make any sense

[catboi]

Define "normal"? It's allowed, and common enough, though in Normal games I think a single group scum faction is more typical (I haven't actually checked any sort of numbers on this though). I'm not sure how that would affect how you'd play on a day 1?

[catboi]

you dont think how someone is posting can indicate alignment?

I don't remotely see how anyone could infer "tone and presence" from what he'd posted


UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aj The Epic

[catboi]

Stay on topic and vote Aj

[catboi]

No and I've not said that or implied that anywhere. As I said, I generally just wait for RVS to pass.

Newsflash, RVS is over.

vote AJ

Stole the post I was going to make, bastard.

I don't like the bolded. It looks like overcompensating for something a scum would be more worried about than a townie.

You're

adorable

104 from TheWorst is AWFUL. Entirely overcautious, manages to say virtually nothing. Justification of the vote is absolutely terrible, entirely self-evident that Innocent felt he had valid reasons for making the vote regardless of anyone else's vote (and my vote sure as hell isn't "random"). Lousy, forced reasoning.

choof doesn't look like scum. Thought process, reactions, etc, seem to be coming from a town mindset. Not totally sure of the best way to explain it but I think the confrontational attitude some people are scumreading him for actually makes him more likely to be town. There's an implicit thought process to his reads that feels natural rather than like they're deliberately constructed statements.


158 Sucks. It's contrived. Hopelessly overwrought rationale. The idea that her townreading of people voting her is a scumtell is nonsensical.

ol Now you're just looking even more scum. You're not scum hunting, you're tunneling into your wagon. The more you try to explain you actions, the weaker your reasoning looks. Anyway, at this point anything you say would probably make you look more scum in my eyes (due to confirmation bias), so I'm just gonna hope other players give their input on you so I can make a proper judgement.

Does anyone here agree with what I said just a little bit? Cause if I'm wrong I would greatly appreciate the feedback.

I think players of either alignment can tunnel, not sure what you're voting banana for is a scumtell at all. That said, I don't really have a read on him at present while I'm catching up

VOTE: luna

Nah

[catboi]

159 was fine, it doesn't strike me either way. Frankly think the "flip flop" in 180 is probably more likely to come from town. Not sure how you're not understanding 182, she's just saying banana needs to prove you're scum, not that you need to prove you're town. Which makes sense, and also is fairly nullish. Could probably defend her better but I'd need a few moments.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: TheWorst

Thought about it for a few, decided I like this better than Aj.

Think kyubey, choof are likely town. Don't really like banana's posts overall, tunnel seems overaggressive for what it is and some such as 108 don't read as authentic to me. Would lean more towards scum there.

[catboi]

147 seems to me like an entirely plausible thought process for town.

p-e: weirdly, most recent post from banana might be the first of his I actually like

[catboi]

I meant 197, not 198, got beaten out before I could post. 198 is totally null and actually reading anything into it is completely foolish.

[catboi]

I was gonna post something else buuuuut ok catboi. calling me awful or whatever.

104 from TheWorst is AWFUL. Entirely overcautious, manages to say virtually nothing. Justification of the vote is absolutely terrible, entirely self-evident that Innocent felt he had valid reasons for making the vote regardless of anyone else's vote (and my vote sure as hell isn't "random"). Lousy, forced reasoning.

Thanks man, I worked

hard

for that post, glad you appreciated it. I felt as though Innocent's posts didn't show me much. His post and vote there seemed weak, with a little "

Gotcha!

" line saying that RVS is over when in context, it was an RVS wagon that he leapt on. That's what got me.
And if it wasn't random as you say, it certainly seemed random from my perspective (I'm sure others share it) as there was no interaction with AJ, no warning, no reasoning, just telling others to join the wagon. Was it for a reaction or something?
The rest of my post was just my thoughts/feelings on the game so far, but nothing too special. Lazy? Sure, I'll accept that. AWFUL? C'mon man, chill.

I meant it as in you're scum. You're certainly not changing that impression. You made a series of "thoughts/feelings" that say virtually nothing and look far more like an attempt to appear busy than an attempt to provide insight. None of what you've said has resembled genuine scumhunting whatsoever.

You've read Luna's iso, right?
Also, you call "RVS is over" a "valid reason" (actually, you consider that reason plural, counting is hard) to vote me. Sure, I completely enjoy this line of thought.

Luna's very clearly taken stances, she just hasn't held many of them very long. Being indecisive is different from being overcautious.

Please don't pretend to be such a stooge you can't follow the implicit thoughtline in his vote. Terrible misrepresentation to claim I was calling the content of his post valid reasoning. Did you seriously read "Innocent felt he had valid reasoning" and interpret that as me, saying his (unstated) reasons were valid? Not remotely hard to see he was making a serious vote but not explaining it, unless you're trying to be deliberately obtuse.

God this is such a weasel post

[catboi]

Also just realized Aj chose to pick at those details from my post and ignore my criticism of 158 from him, which is a bad look

[catboi]

I mean, you can't even point to another post. There's 4 of them, since I counted, and none of them have any relevance here. So catboi, the real pressing question is: Are you a mind reader?

To which the answer is no and I'd like to know how you're stating with so much faith that you understand this hidden implied meaning IAI is sticking behind this deep post. It's almost as if you took his post, made an apple an orange then called it a mango to attack wicked with. IaI's post was exactly as wicked said: He said RVS was over and voted for an RVS wagon. Like I could put that in direct quotes for wicked and you can reference that to the post above. And so he's justifying his vote for no reason? No, says I! You simply have to use the implict thought-line to find the true meaning of Wicked's vote.

And really, if it is such a misrepresentation to for me to say that you say IaI's post's contain valid reasons, why did you say that exact phrase?

So this being said, what say you, catboi?


P-edit: Oh do I cry over my shortcomings, m'Lord catboi. Forgive this humble Stooge for his inability to quoth the Raven every time and squander upon thee needless hours and precious space of thine's electronic cellars for the holiest of your words which does so exist on the same scroll! This servant so humbly wished only for thine master's blessings in being short, as I am, and concise, which I do so fail to be! Shall it be twenty lashings for this failure stooge?

Touchy, aren't you~

His vote was clearly serious. I don't know his exact reasons, of course, but he found your posts scummy, quite possibly for the same reasons I did. That's not hard to figure out. Sometimes people don't need to justify votes right away. Trying to paint it as an "RVS wagon" is willfully ignoring the facts.

I never have claimed his reasons are valid, as I do not know them (though they may be). I said they believed their reasoning was valid. That is also very easy to see and understand. I was literally going to make the same joke about RVS being over, because I was serious. (of course, this kind of groupthink is something easily latched on to by experienced scum. I explicitly don't have a read on IaI because of this.)

So please don't freak out when I ask you this: are you just being dense, or are you scum? I've tried to be as clear as possible in explaining what I mean. I really don't think it's that hard to parse " entirely self-evident that

Innocent felt he had valid reasons

for making the vote regardless of anyone else's vote". Are you having trouble understanding this sentence? I'm not saying in there at all I think their reasons are valid. That's not the way their sentence is structured. I'm saying IaI thought he had a valid reason to vote, or in other words, that his vote was serious. Which is...exactly what he said?

I thought that would be clear the first time I explained it to you. My kneejerk reaction is to call you scum trying to attack me by misrepresenting my statement, but that's because I didn't like the way you started the game and I'm biased against you. I can't really know if you're having trouble with reading comprehension for some reason (this is not intended as an insult), so I've tried to explain it as clearly as possible. Do you understand what I am saying with regard to his vote?


Lastly, over the top sarcasm in response to me criticizing that you seem to be picking and choosing parts of my post to respond to...is also a bad look. :3

[catboi]

Have you maybe considered that people just don't care that much about you?

That said, I looked and your reasoning is generic and unconvincing. Slightly scummy, even. Don't get the impression of him being "only concerned with self preservation" from what he said - in fact his behavior at the time was more or less suggestive of the opposite. Also, claiming from that post he's "not bothering with scum hunting" because he didn't care about naked votes on other players is a pretty big reach.

[catboi]

@Aj:

What do you think of 216?

[catboi]

Right, I went through the start of the game, then I just skipped the pointless debate of Choof and BananaCucho.

BananaCucho always looks scummy - He does on this game too. I'm going with town.
Choof seems to be trying to look too scummy for scum for me. Something I'm going to look into.
I have no idea what Luna is doing, seems to be all over the place but kind of null.
I like Talah, I feel 223 was a test from a town.
AJ comes across as scum hunting more than others... Comes across... More town lean than not though.
Performer - 74 What is with the voting for your play style comment?

I only had a while to catch up during my break, so a continued version will be looked at tonight/morning.

Zakk, who's scum?!

This is...an awfully vague post. If Banana always looks scummy, why's he likely to be town in this game? What about choof's behavior comes across "scummy" to you? How was post 223 a "test"? So far as I can tell they just made a bad metagame assumption as to why your slot is town. Where has Aj scumhunted? And why are you asking zakk of all people who he thinks is scum?

Anyways, to me everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Which is absolutely why I hate what Luna's doing.

"Blah blah blah friend me on facebook blah blah blah I'll try harder".
A lot of fluff but at least he didn't call you town. There hasn't been a lot of content from him but we could say the same for IaI, Luna and ESPECIALLY Zakk. In fact, I almost forget he's in the game but for the fact that he posted 224, which made me read talah's question again (Hint: It's not exactly easy on this one's small brain).

Wrong answer - whole post comes across as weak and a lot closer to appeasement than what you're going after, given it's mostly making excuses and promising content later.

Whether you like it or not, townhunting is absolutely a valid strategy that's useful for winning games. If anything, real towntells tend to be more accurate than scumtells. If you took objection to her reasoning for her reads I'd maybe understand but this looks a lot more like an objection to a playstyle than anything else, which isn't good process at all. I don't really want to steer this into Mafia Discussion territory here but even though I think you believe what you're going after, you're way off the mark.

I rarely post whole quotes unless the whole quote is relevant. Less quote space is less overall clutter. They're generally linked though.

This for the record wasn't me criticizing you for posting whole quotes - I'm in favor of anything that makes a game mire readable, but that you ignored part of a post I made where I was critical of you while responding to the stuff about TheWorst.

[catboi]

dear luna fox please stop sextuple-posting

VeeGee is absolutely the VI who gets pounced on as an easy wagon on day 1. This wagon currently forming on him is terrible.

let me expand on this
she's definitely indecisive, no doubt. by overcautious, to me it seems like she's actively avoiding bringing up original points on people because she doesn't want to get called out for saying something wrong, or not being able to elaborate on a point

How does being indecisive equate to being scum here, exactly? Also don't really see her as being unoriginal at all, several statements of reads came before anyone else made them, and her calling you/banana both town definitely wasn't copying anyone.

well you certainly have a lot of people to start making reads on because iirc you said 4 people were town and the rest were null in one hell of a copout post

aware that it was a bad set of reads?

Lmao

How is not giving reads on most of the players in the game after only a few pages a bad set of reads?




Don't really like 257 from TheWorst either! VeeGee vote feels especially soft with the "I'd like to hear him speak more", engaging a lurker at this phase comes across as a way to look protown without having to exert real effort or take meaningful stances. I never once claimed my vote was for "lacking content" and the implication that it was is crap (also a subtle attempt to redirect attention to lurkers which at 11 pages is nonsensical). 104 was egregious because the "quick thoughts" in it were absolutely useless and contained no meaningful insight, came across far more as an attempt to fake activity than of any actual sort of observation. Attempted justification of IaI vote is mealy-mouthed and don't like how he tries to point at others as agreeing with him rather than attempting to justify the vote himself.

Holy hell 271 is wishy washy. Worst is just absolutely allergic to taking a real stance. This is what real "appeasement" looks like.


Questioning of other players also reads as trying desperately hard to appear active while being as inoffensive as possible, without much of a sense of purpose at all. Spends a lot of time lwaning on other players for their reads when he's made essentially none himself. Line of questioning on luna is also straight up bizarre, the implication you can't townread someone without interacting with them is straight-up wrong and worst seemingly draws nothing from it - no analysis of whather he thinks luna's faking those reads given lack of interactions, no commentary whether he agrees with those reads, just a weak, pointless question about the methods.

Alright, I have a proposition: Carrying dead weight into future days recently lost the town in one of my games (Micro 503). Town never got active (not an issue here) and a VI survived all the way until I replaced in and saw his posting as counterproductive to the town. Had one scum get by me because comparing resumes just meant the scum was higher% to be town. Really, if you read the game there's like nothing that makes the guy who avoids to L-1 lynches to be town.

This is not a proposition you should be remotely interested in for a game that's been open for barely more than 2 real-time days.

[catboi]

I could quote multiple posts from her that sheep other players
her refusal to step on toes and make a hard stance, to me, implies someone who doesn't want to get killed
you think she's just being a silly townie?

Quote them for me, because I don't see it at all. (what you're describing sounds a lot more like a match for the guy I'm voting).


Do you disagree with the subjects of her reads, or the presentation of them? I'm not sure what it is about them that's bad to you.

[catboi]

It doesn't, but I'm starting to get the feeling he really believes what he's pushing, even if I strongly disagree with it, if that makes sense at all.

[catboi]

In all honesty I don't think it was a fake townslip, and they're probably just logged off, but I do want to look into it a bit.

116 doesn't really read like sheeping 90 at all? in 90 banana's asking you why you're not concerned with those other votes, 116 luna's accusing you of being self conscious.

156, to my mind, seems slightly more likely to come from town. Her acknowledgement that she expects she'd be attacked by scum seems a little more like town with a bit of self-awareness.

[catboi]

FA_Q2's definitely been scum on this site and had pregame chat, though it was 7 months ago. I don't really see why they'd try to fake a tell that's so easily disproven, though? Just doesn't seem like what they were doing. Decent observation from Luna though, probably town for it.

I did a little bit of a meta read and have some comparable games to see that this is in fact simply how she plays. I don't like it as a main style because I still think it equates to one misread == potential loss if your words hold enough sway. And I still believe that town will reveal themselves by actions whether you look or not. I dislike these two posts in particular 31 and 151 (calling banana and kyubi town [respectively] for their suspicions on her) but it's not worth pursuing right now. Especially 31, which came off what was probably a random vote.

Right, find this at least decently understandable. Do completely agree that carelessly thrown around townreads can be severely detrimental, but that's an objection to the strategy and not the player using the strategy. Ultimately anyway if you box out too many people as town when you're scum, you run out of targets to mislynch and screw yourself. Agreed that 31 felt a little early and can understand objecting to that, but 151 doesn't really bother me, I think I townread 150 from kyubey as well.

[catboi]

Anyway...
VOTE: Performer

I don't think any of the reasons he has given for his votes or unvotes have been genuine and I don't think the questions he's asking are helping him to determine anyone's alignment.

He's pretty clearly posting with a gimmick, which makes him obnoxious and difficult for me to read. The constant ellipsis just look inherently scummy. Not sure that he's been actually scummy versus just awkward/bad.


IaI, Aj's probably town and a wagon of 2 votes isn't substantial anyway. Look somewhere else.


VeeGee is the lowest of low hanging fruit, and having just played with him, short awkward posts are going to be the norm.

[catboi]

That doesn't make the current state of affairs acceptable. As IaI just posted, lurking for scum is not a bad tactic. (Unsurprisingly, it's a terrible tactic for town because the lack of reads on a slot hurt the general affairs).

IT'S ELEVEN DAYS FROM DEADLINE

So people who look too scummy to be scum are probably town, but AJ who comes across as scumhunting to you (aka looking townie I presume) is lean town?

No, just this play, that's the reason the whole comment needs reading. . And yes, scum hunting does go into my town criteria.

And Zakk, where's the posting from you? Why are you so quiet? Completely different to when we last played.

VOTE: Zakk

real bad post. Care to answer the questions I asked in VOTE: 280?

[catboi]

Oh my god I'm an idiot

280

I'm assuming that vote tag won't count for anything since it's not on an actual player in the game

[catboi]

This is...an awfully vague post. If Banana always looks scummy, why's he likely to be town in this game? What about choof's behavior comes across "scummy" to you? How was post 223 a "test"? So far as I can tell they just made a bad metagame assumption as to why your slot is town. Where has Aj scumhunted? And why are you asking zakk of all people who he thinks is scum?

Well, he always look scummy from what I've seen of him, and then he flips town. That kind of answers itself.
Because I feel Talah was looking to see if I would agree and go "Yeah I'm town for that reason" - Your opinion is yours, mine is mine.
In this game
Because Zakk holds my hand when we scum hunt. Sadly he's not doing it right now...

To assume he's town just because he's "always scummy" and then "flips town" is just the gambler's fallacy. It's not substantive reasoning at all.

Still haven't answered what about choof's behavior was scummy to you.

I'm asking for specific examples of where you felt like Aj was scumhunting, don't get cute. Up to that point in the game he really hadn't done much, in my view.

[catboi]

Don't really agree with the posts cited in 246 being strong examples of scumhunting but can see how they might impress someone as such and I do ultimately think Aj's town so not going to press that further. Do want to see him cite the example of where he's getting this meta on Banana now.

Don't really like 400/401 from VeeGee. Sort of a needlessly defensive tone and trying to deflect attention toward zakk rather than providing actual content. Something about going "but what about this guy why aren't people voting him" rubs me the wrong way.

@VeeGee:

what reads do you have currently?

[catboi]

Yeah that's not really meaningfully different

[catboi]

Alright, I challenge anyone to meta read some of Veegee's stuff and tell me he's not bonafide VI. What we've seen here is his content level and frankly it's unacceptable. He's a high priority d1 lynch in most games and frankly it's because of these reasons:

Posts are too short
No good analysis, never asks good questions
Votes are often misplaced, has no ability to work with others.
And really, there's nothing more to be expected of him then what we've already seen.

That needs to change. Veegee, if you're tired of dying D1 all the time, you have to engage yourself actively, you have to ask questions and here specifically you have to give us reads/reasons. Otherwise, I agree with the action taken by the town in most situations: You can't let him continue in games or you suffer having a random in the game down the line. So it's the same thing: Post content (solid content) or look forward to dying again D1.

The answer here is to actually scumhunt and not lynch based on VI tells. I mean, I explicitly don't like a lot of what he's saying, he hasn't towntold by any means, but to just lynch him for being bad is in and of itself not a good play. Plenty of other players in the game, might as well try to read them. I think eventually he ought to alignment tell one way or the other, you just can't necessarily expect it right away. If he's around in later days, sure, liability lynch him. The idea of throwing away day 1 doesn't sit well with me.

[catboi]

Thanks zakk

[catboi]

yeah that vote is all sorts of terrible

[catboi]

yeah that vote is all sorts of terrible

Whatever.
It appears that anything that I fucking out there is going to be a problem for you so just vote to hang me and be done with it then.

I don't care for this asinine bullshit.

Lol what

I hadn't said anything against you before this

[catboi]

How can you think it was a legitimate slip and not think it has any bearing on his alignment?

zakk feels like town that doesn't give a crap to me, though that's by no means a strong read

[catboi]

Catboi clearly takes issue with my playstyle more than anything and fits it into his confirmation bias. If you want to see how I play on D1, look at my meta. I don't take hardlined stances at first (prefer to keep my options open), I like asking questions, I like provoking discussion, and I pace myself slowly.
That's why I find your responses more insulting than anything.

I did look at your meta. You're playing soft and your analysis is halfhearted and lacking in meaningful substance. Passive dismissal does nothing to change my mind. That "reads list" at the end of youre post is absolutely awful, only offering wishy-washy commentary on some of the most talked about/low activity players. You're avoiding doing real analysis or examining people who have more content.

[catboi]

I think he's trying to say it's a nulltell, he's just expressing it in an awkward way. It's not a totally indefensible stance I don't think. A lot of his stuff is not great in that it doesn't make a ton of sense, but I probably wouldn't vote him today.

[catboi]

It means that Faq2 is still in the "we don't know"
Or in my case, still a slight townread.

Wait, what? why? when did this happen?

[catboi]

Keeping my vote on Veegee, still want more from him. Idc if he's an "easy" wagon, I put my vote on him not to lynch, but to have conversation.
He told me that he would post more on weekend, and he did technically, but it really wasn't much. What do you think of FA_Q and Performer?
Zakk hasn't given much of anything either, but that doesn't mean Veegee is innocent. He's definitely lacking in content though, and according to Vedith he usually posts more.
Performer's posts are annoying to look at, but from what I've seen he has given bits and pieces of insight. Albeit, in annoying emo and disorganized fashion. Not willing to lynch him quite yet, I want to hear more from him. Pressure is fine on him though.
FA_Q is still bugging me, especially when he ignored the reasons against him. I'm more willing to vote him if need be.

AAAAAA I got stuff to do, cutting this post a bit short. well, it's already a wall to catch up/respond with, but whatever.

Since I have time to dig, want to get into what bugs me here.

The fact is here he's really only hitting low-content players who have been voted or at least fos'd by people in this game. I'm going to go out on a slightly crazy limb here and say I think this is a scumtell, but I don't really know why. I think I've been hit for it before in the past, and people have pointed it out to me. I think, in part, it shows a person isn't legitimately scumhunting and is just following along with the crowd. A town player should be looking at everyone and trying to read them, but for scum it's more convenient to just look at the popular wagons. Again this isn't a great explanation but I'd swear by the fact that someone has told me this, I just don't remember the exact reasoning it's bad.


Added to that, it's really pretty useless commentary! again, voting a lurky player for "pressure" is a meaningless token gesture for scum that is done to attempt to look town while taking on really no risk at all. Also pretty lame to be pressing veegee for content when he's offered up essentially none himself, I think. It's such a weak cop-out for a vote. DOn't see any reasoning behind him asking veegee about faq2 or performer except that they were also getting wagoned. the sentence on zakk is useless! All he says is thathe hasn't posted much! No kidding, anyone could see that from looking at the activity overview! Worst doesn't bother to say whether he finds it suspicious, just essentially goes to restate the obvious. It's non-analysis posing as commentary. The Performer "read" is just, he's annoying but has "bits and pieces of insight" (where? what? who knows) and he's not scummy but you can pressure him and maybe I'll vote him later - it's a total non-stance. Doesn't really manage to say anything about performer at all. Last bit not much better, just saying fa_q2 is bad because he "ignored the reasons against him", whatever that means. It just feels like cheap analysis. COuld I see a town player thinking this? I guess, but the way he expresses it feels off. It's not really new or insightful, just kind of piggybacking on another guy that's been pressured.

worst referenced his meta, the only remotely recent meta on him is Mini 1705, and the difference is night and day - there he pretty quickly delves into actual analysis and makes legitimate attempts at scumhunting. in 59 there's a press on something he finds suspicious, then he starts asking questions with a point, drops meta-analysis on a player he doesn't see doing much (bacde) - there's a decent deal of interrogation and accusation going on there. He doesn't give reads for a while but not hard to see honest scumhunting in the questioning, trying to figure out people's reasoning and the like. There's really none of that here and most of what he's said has been constructed seemingly in an effort to avoid riling anyone up. The fact that he didn't bother to look into veegee's meta is also pretty bad, suggests here he's more concerned with simply pushing the easy lynch rather than investigating if he's making a vote based on playstyle.

god this ended up way longer than i thought it would be

[catboi]

performer's "softclaim" as it's being talked about was an obvious hypothetical, he absolutely shouldn't be made to claim, and discussion of it should die here and now

[catboi]

I mean if he's wagoned, that's fine, but wagoning someone just because of a perceived softclaim is idiotic. And no, I don't think Performer would softclaim scum in-thread.

---

Not really impressed with the response of theworst in 532 at all but I've absolutely no desire to wall-war as I suspect no one reads those anyway. Will try to be succinct.


Excuses like "I felt as though since that's who everyone focuses on, I decided I may as well give my own perspective on them." do nothing for me, feel as though I've said that exact same thing as scum. It's just a way to avoid taking responsibility and only comment on obvious things, rather than making any genuine effort at scumhunting.

I'm fairly confident on the tell about only commenting on players who have received significant attention already, despite how worst tries to paint it. I just simply can't explain it well, but know it's bad. That's just how it works sometimes. I'm more than perfectly content to tunnel on a singular player who I feel is scummy, have said plenty otherwise about players I feeel are town, no reason whatsoever to divert my focus until I either see a better vote or am made to believe my feelings are wrong. Tonally the line trying to divert attention to veegee/zakk bothers me as well, seems to be attempting to say "what about those guys", and also don't like the implivation I'm giving them "the benefit of the doubt" when I think I've explicitly said said I don't townread them - I might lean toward zakk-town, but that's by no means a read I'd put any level of confidence in.

But the simple reason I'm tunneling TheWorst and not them is I don't give two shakes of my tail about who's putting in "effort". Anyone can do effort. Town players can be lazy. "effort" is a poor way to scumhunt. My concern is with whether or not someone looks genuine. zakk kind of seems like he doesn't give a crap and is openly not trying, at least not right away. Thing is, he doesn't actually seem concerned with looking town. VeeGee, based on past experience, is awkward as hell and a VI. My approach to him, which I think I've said, is to wait and see. I don't expect him to start strong, only way to read him will be to wait and see and as it is the wagon on him looked exceptionally lazy. Entire basis of my attack on TheWorst is that his "effort" looks fake as hell and amounts to some very surface-y analysis with very little in the way of actual conclusions, and a lot of safe, useless statements.

In fact the repeated rhetorical questions Worst asks in response bugs me, because he's seemingly trying to set me up to either have to say not wanting to lynch is scummy, or that I don't find him scummy, and that's not really what I take issue with at all. I understood the post perfectly well, it was just terrible non-analysis that Worst avoids defending by trying to change the argument.

Don't find the pace argument really compelling either, fact is a lot of the posts this game have been very short/spammy and I'm finding no trouble keeping up in spite of only being around in the evenings to post. Of course that's just my experience but in general it comes across that TheWorst spending more time making excuses than he is attempting to actually catch up, also don't necessarily see why being behind on the thread is keeping him from putting forward content as he reads, but I don't see any real attempt at this.

Whatever Worst calls his vote on VVeeGee, it was a zero risk vote that also accomplished absolutely nothing and was done in a lazy attempt to look protown. I've generally a low opinion of people who vote to "pressure" lurky/afk players because it's a very "safe" sort of play.

I don't see how a vote/FoS being weak precludes it it being for an easy lynch, at all. Focus on my use of the phrase "pushing" is just useless semantics - a player can "push" for a lynch weakly, which was my impression at the time but I just addressed the pressure voting claims anyway.

The "lynch now or lynch later" appeal is also weird as hell coming from someone who is admittedly not caught up with the thread, not sure why he'd suggest acquiescing to that at all.

Subsequent post continues to leave me unimpressed by anything he has to say.



and I've failed at being succinct but, whatever~

[catboi]

Also just did a check and I don't think anyone should be townreading I Am Innocent

[catboi]

He only has 10 posts, however. I don't feel like that's enough to make a full on read.

I don't think that's true at all but it's also unimportant, and my exact statement was that I don't think someone should have a town read on him. What were you hoping to accomplish with this post?

VeeGee, based on past experience, is awkward as hell and a VI. My approach to him, which I think I've said, is to wait and see. I don't expect him to start strong, only way to read him will be to wait and see and as it is the wagon on him looked exceptionally lazy.

Just remember even VIs can draw scum roles.

Where are you with Performer/Faq/Verdith? I know you talked about the verdith interaction a bit but it doesn't seem like you're willing to make any accusations outside of the one with wicked.

I've said repeatedly I lack a townread on him, nya. I don't even like his posts so far. It's just, meh. Low hanging fruit is low hanging fruit.

In all honesty I haven't bothered to parse performer's posts because I hate the gimmick. I seriously don't know how to read it. The early game analysis was poor. I read through his iso and didn't really get anything from it. The "if i were to shoot you" was pretty clearly an attempt to get a reaction from veegee. If anything it's the one thing he's done that seems townish. I don't really scumread him but also wouldn't care if he died at all. Doesn't seem worthy of a vote to me personally, though, and I think the reasons I've seen for voting him are more concerning than his actual play.

I didn't like the way fa_q2 voted performer and their overall play is lackluster. Lean towards scum there.

Verdith doesn't make much sense but I lean toward him genuinely believing the stuff he's saying. Not interested in voting him.

[catboi]

In general in my experience across hundreds of EM games, people who softclaim quickly under pressure tend to be town more often than not. I prefer not mentioning things in case scum are inattentive.

Those two are ones I'd be willing to vote right now, but saying that feels weird, I don't feel like my work is done for day 1 by any means and there are people I want to look into/see more from.

[catboi]

hundreds of

EM

games

There's your problem

I'm just saying I think it's a solid reference for people's behavior tendencies. I mean absolutely, someone can fake an early softclaim, but usually when someone does it they're inexperienced town getting flustered by pressure.

[catboi]

Cool, so it's become very apparent that pretty much everything I post is being written off as useless and pointless. Choof and Vedith, you both succeeded in making sure nobody takes me seriously this game.

I'm a vote for whoever wants it but don't expect me to contribute much else from here on out.

Calm down, nya. I've felt this way before so I understand where you're coming from and it sucks to feel that way. That said, I'm not sure what you're upset at being written off on - to me you've written a lot of one-liners and retorts that weren't necessarily saying a whole lot. If you were trying at some larger purpose, I'm missing it. What did you feel no one was taking you seriously on?

Naw I killed you that game because I felt you were scumhunting and asking the right questions. Doesn't feel the same here.

This is more or less what I've been trying to say, but in a lot fewer words.

[catboi]

VOTE: Performer

hey, do you mind answering what I asked you?

[catboi]

@BananaCucho:

I think you're town but in all honesty if you're going to throw a tantrum because you weren't getting exactly what you wanted, I'd rather not have you playing this game. Please either give this game your best effort or let someone who will take your place. I seriously felt bad for you after that post, I want to help, but if you're determined not to try it's a detriment to everyone. I know this can come across as buddying or sucking up or whatever but I don't really care about that, on a metagame level I just want people to enjoy the game. Anyway hopefully when you read this you've calmed down and are willing to be more helpful.


I'm terrible at lists and almost never attempt them as town, here it feels like it might be worth it though. Initial impression is I agree with luna on most of her townreads, though I don't have quite as many and a few of those I'd be more inclined to be suspicious of

[catboi]

Going to pointedly ignore certain players right now.

In Performer's case I want him lynched and I've said numerous times why that is.

What I don't understand is why you're defending him.

I'm not, and don't say that I am. That's largely crap. I was critical of some of the reasons people were voting him for. Fairly different things. The idea of trying to stretch an obvious hypothetical question into a softclaim is ludicrous at best and maybe even scummy. Don't know. Need to read.

[catboi]

Ignore the fact you've been a dick. Excellent.

If I said anything that was upsetting to you, it was purely unintentional. I wasn't trying to come across as rude.

I tried to reach out to you out of genuine sympathy, and you snapped back at me. You complained about feeling ignored, and I wanted to help. I really, really did. Now you've descended into several pages of abuse and spam-posting that not only makes the game unfun, but is legitimately detrimental to the town.

So I'm done with you. I have a pretty high tolerance for BS, but I have absolutely no desire to play in a game with you. You've gone way over the line with your outbursts.

It's only a game. Grow the hell up.

[catboi]

@BananaCucho:

I think you're town but in all honesty if you're going to throw a tantrum because you weren't getting exactly what you wanted, I'd rather not have you playing this game. Please either give this game your best effort or let someone who will take your place. I seriously felt bad for you after that post, I want to help, but if you're determined not to try it's a detriment to everyone. I know this can come across as buddying or sucking up or whatever but I don't really care about that, on a metagame level I just want people to enjoy the game. Anyway hopefully when you read this you've calmed down and are willing to be more helpful.

Get off your high horse. You've got your head so far up your ass if can't see a blaringly obvious message here that screams "quit being a baby" and "replace out cause OH MY GOD YOU SUCK" masked in a.... "genuinely sympathetic" post. The only difference between your passive aggressive reinforcement of the narrative two other assholes are pushing and my posts is that I'm being blunt.

Also, WHERE was this righteous indignation from you when both choof and Vedith tried to derail the game (Vedith more so) with their comments? Go through my ISO. Where did I deserve that shit? But you kept silent and when I express discouragement you then passively aggressively come at me trying to get me to quit. Hypocritical much?

So naw bra, I'm done sitting down and taking shit. You give it to me its gonna get shoved down your throat.

I was sympathetic to you. Still am, to an extent. But it's clear, frankly, that you're immature and rude and a detriment to the game, and I've lost my patience for you. This is not some thinly veiled insult - if I wanted to be mean to you, I could. I'm trying to be polite, though it seems you take any criticism as a personal slight. I gave you the option of toning down your act. You chose to ramp up the level of abuse. I'm not going to stand for that.

Apologies to everyone else in this game, but BananaCucho's abusive behavior has absolutely killed any desire I have to play in it. Most of you seem like wonderful people, and I'd love to provide you with the good #content but I don't feel it would be right for me to do so at this point in time. This might be my last post. We'll see. If it is, hope to play with the rest of you again sometime.

[catboi]

I wanted to help you. I really, really did. If you don't believe that, I pity you.