NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah unfortunately this one's changing the wrong way.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean, one of us has reads that are full of shit and the other is a doctor.

[Aj The Epic]

@Luna, Have you considered AJ is full of shit about his role

and

town?

Why would town lie about their role.

Why is pretender trolling D1?

When did I become performer?

[Aj The Epic]

Okay, here's the deal: I'm either lying about my role AND alignment or telling the truth about both.

Otherwise, the lack of NK makes no sense.

[Aj The Epic]

Okay so the idea of a town jailkeeper/roleblocker exists or scum no killing for whatever strange reason they might have. However, I doubt a jailkeeper exists in this setup and scum no-killing without a motive claim is outlandish.

[Aj The Epic]

No I'm asking why you think AJ is scum.

Tell me why he isn't scum.

The entirety of day 1. Next.

How is 2 shot BP Doc not ridiculous

And why would he claim so easily?

Because a 2-shot BP role is fucking ridiculous and ridiculously hard for scum to clear off the field?

Luna voted him out of the gates. AJ claims to have protected her.

Oh, in that case he's not lying. If only I noticed this first! AJ is inno everyone! He protected Luna so he is town all! Best argument NA.
So answer me this. Why did the original FN claim not die?
Scum must be pretty dumb to go for Luna instead, am I right?

Remember who the FN was: Choof and Skybird. It's not like they couldn't make the EXACT ARGUMENT you're making right now that scum sends FN to their buddy. IDK you're playing out the counterargument to FN exactly the way I'd expect scum to.

[Aj The Epic]

Re-reading CBD's iso:

Okay, so first off Kyub has almost nothing. He targets bananachoof (sala's slot) and posts a few times about it through the first 100 posts before replacing out. One post bothered me as I stated way earlier in the thread that he was looking for approval before continuing his attack:

I think you're mistaking me prodding you for your opinion on choof for "defending" Luna, which is silly and if you don't want to see reason I can't make you.

And "hellbent" on lynching him, really? That's just you over exaggerating. I'm allowed to reaction test and scum hunt. Derp derp derp.

lol Now you're just looking even more scum. You're not scum hunting, you're tunneling into your wagon. The more you try to explain you actions, the weaker your reasoning looks. Anyway, at this point anything you say would probably make you look more scum in my eyes (due to confirmation bias), so I'm just gonna hope other players give their input on you so I can make a proper judgement.

Does anyone here agree with what I said just a little bit? Cause if I'm wrong I would greatly appreciate the feedback.

Luna shared her opinion that it felt like he was verifying to make sure he wasn't going the wrong way, and that made it town motivated. I still think it's more scum motivated because town should be confident enough in their reads and expect to be corrected if wrong. I mean, even CBD agrees with me when the subject is TheWorst:

The appeal to consensus (look! these people agree with me!) isn't a town reaction, I don't think. Town explains why they felt the way that they felt, rather than finding reasons for their stated feelings to look legitimate.

Difference being "they agree" to "I hope they agree" in Worst's and Kyub's case respectively.

Would not lynch Today: Performer, Titus, Vedith, talah, Luna Fox, IAI, Skybird, Banana, VeeGee
Would be OK with lynching Today: zakk, TheWorst, AJ, FAQ2

So this is re-reading I have issues with CBD's reads. Zakk is a policy lynch by the end of the day. He postures and says he expects a town flip but doesn't have the motivation to stop it:

I expect zakk to flip town, frankly, but I can't muster any enthusiasm to stop this lynch from happening. He might as well just not be playing and it's incredibly frustrating.

TheWorst is now FN, I'm claimed Doc and FA_Q2 is the only possible scum. More and more I think FA_Q2 flips town.

On the other side, he explains Tallah is closest to scum reading, someone I explicitly stated should almost be confirmed town w/catboi luna. Obviously it's a disagreement but there's little to justify it. Part of this read is nitpicking Vedith who he has as town. Something I strongly disagree with.

Yeah this town is going to doom itself more than the scum will going by what I've seen so far.

This is a very scummy attack on morale.

It also implies you have townreads (or know who's town).

Who's town?

---

Back after work.

This one one of the posts CBD has an issue with from Tallah. For context, Vedith was being COMPLETELY unhelpful and got berated by tallah, myself and luna. Note that FA_Q2's vote WAS completely hypocritical, catboi called him on it. Banana, Catboi and I expressed our disinterest in the vote, and Choof called fa_q2 for ignoring questions. I mean, FA_q2's response to this was this steaming piece of crap, which didn't :

yeah that vote is all sorts of terrible

Whatever.
It appears that anything that I fucking out there is going to be a problem for you so just vote to hang me and be done with it then.

I don't care for this asinine bullshit.

THIS is what vedith buddied with, what tallah called out and apparently CBD has an issue with it. Note that Vedith is buddying with people who are refusing to work with the town bloc and then goes on to assert that the current town was garbage without doing anything. Pressed for reads, Vedith claimed he did them, but that post was 200 posts back.

CBD indicates there's something wrong with what TALLAH SPECIFICALLY does here. However:

It's also beautiful how two of the lower content posters feel they have any rights to judge the going-ons of this game when they refuse to be apart of it via reads, content, questions or ANYTHING AT ALL that doesn't involve their own well-being.

And I then back Tallah's post up with

Your last reads list was two days and 200 posts ago.

Banana calls it for buddying two posts before mine, as well.
However none of the points come up for anyone but Tallah. His reason for wanting a lynch on me is solely for luna's point about me working with her after saying townhunting is a style I don't agree with. As if I decided to work with her for any other reason that it was obvious completely she was town and her reads were good. In fact, the context there was so obvious (Wanted to know thoughts about Choof/banana whom I had none) that people extending this to cognitive dissonance are out in space with using that fallacy.

He likes Vedith's effort in these posts:

So people who look too scummy to be scum are probably town, but AJ who comes across as scumhunting to you (aka looking townie I presume) is lean town?

No, just this play, that's the reason the whole comment needs reading. . And yes, scum hunting does go into my town criteria.

And Zakk, where's the posting from you? Why are you so quiet? Completely different to when we last played.

VOTE: Zakk

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=60664 - Partner comments pre game, he doesn't comment on it.

That's his only completed scum game by the looks of it.
I can buy that he didn't know about pre chat.

But the first one is no-effort to me considering the page before, I advocated a policy lynch on veegee or Zakk. The legwork was done, he could write it off to sheeping. For the second one, Vedith was buddying super super hard with Fa_q2, I could see him trying to gain more points from that. And considering FA_Q2's view-topic page is 10 finished games worth, it's not a super long check (that and the scum PT is the obvious last thread). 390 by FA_Q2 also states that he's been scum once and that it had no pregame.

There's really no justification for Performer as a non-lynchable other than CBD believes he sees a claim in the lyrics, or at least that's what I get from:

Performer's obviously deliberate affectations in this game with the song lyrics etc are a HUGE indicator that the slot is town. People going 'this is weird, vote Performer' without thinking at all beyond the surface level are more likely to be scum - I'll have to look specifically into people doing that before long.

I don't like this being the sole reason that the performer wagon is 'duuuuuuumb'.

VOTE: CDB

I'm suspecting a Vedith/CDB team with Performer. I think the difference where FA_Q2 and Vedith had obvious buddying but not defending is Vedith honestly asserting Fa_q2 as town. It's also contradicted by FA_Q2 being one of Cdb's strongest scum read (with TheWorst, claimed FN). My worry is that FA_Q2 and Performer have almost no interaction other than voting each other. Both read each other as scum but do very little about it other than the vote. However, I think it's too blatant for Vedith to pick FA_Q2 as a scum buddy and buddy the hell out of him.

As a sidenote, I'm also fairly confident CDB is an economics major. I'll catch up on the posts that got through while I made this.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: TheWorst

You just read sala's and vedith's post on this, right? I don't LIE about this unless both of us are scum. So unless you're damn sure that both of us are scum, you're going the wrong way.

[Aj The Epic]

Tell me what you think of my post on CDB then. In my opinion, lynching either FN is a terrible idea because they can keep sending that message. More importantly, Skybird sending it to veegee is great because it makes Skybird confirmed town if veegee dies (and veegee is already a pretty universal town read), theWorst confirmed town if I die. Lynching them is not the right option. By your own method:

If we take you, the two FN's, titus, myself (again, will sort itself out), and Sala (who replaced banana, also one of your town leans), veegee, who are you left with for today? CDB, Performer, FA_Q2, Vedith, IAI (who probably needs a prod, but I think is reasonable for town as well).

Even IF you want to include me in that, do so tomorrow. There's no reason to lynch doctors especially on a nk night. If nothing else and I was lying, you're not falling behind by letting me go because the no nk already sets scum back basically a full day.

Pedit: Titus, why go after veegee or Skybird? Again, skybird can claim to someone else. Veegee not being 100% clear isn't really a tell. It's the exact same reasoning with worst and I.

[Aj The Epic]

yes

[Aj The Epic]

Luna, you had a townread on veegee since 600 and carried that to the end of yesterday.

However, oddly enough I can't find more people that agree with that. Tallah is null, TheWorst wanted him hung, Vedith... we won't even start. Skybird thinks he's innocent by means of sending FN to him. And also, no one questioned it when he posted that (we said to avoid Luna/Catboi/myself and send it to the next tier). Sala doesn't have an explicit opinions so far as I can tell, and zakk's mention stated veegee as town.

[Aj The Epic]

As a sidenote, I'm also fairly confident CDB is an economics major.

Since this comment actually means something

You used the term "sunk cost" in one of your opening posts, a term almost exclusive to economics. I also happen to be in the field. I also realize the posts here were getting overly serious and felt the need to lighten up a bit. There was literally nothing malicious about it at all other than I might have something in common with you and keeping the game in perspective.

[Aj The Epic]

Well vote Veegee then Sal. The other two are town.

Why are you confident about vedith?

[Aj The Epic]

Now that's just a sad vote.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah, I've realized through the games I'm currently in that I am super rusty and having a rough time playing. Tbh I'm emulating what I remember more than anything else and I've been frustrated with this game in particular since the zakk lynch.

I'll take a little time here (probably a day or so) to try and get back on track and just keep to answering questions at most.

[Aj The Epic]

Skybird trying to lynch Worst is stupid, though. Neither FN should be targets since they both say they can resend.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah, that was also my knee-jerk on hearing he could prevent a kill. I'm thinking RB, which at this point I'm chalking to scum counter to my role.

[Aj The Epic]

I think titus is comparing Vee/Me

[Aj The Epic]

Second, Skybird cannot be guilty unless VeeGee also is guilty.

Yes but veegee scum does not necessitate Skybird scum

[Aj The Epic]

How? XD

You need to re read that I think, VeeGee.
Is Sky is guilty, then you are as well.

Same as if TheWorst is guilty, so is AJ...

It's simple.

Can you stop being completely irrational without presenting anything towards it?

[Aj The Epic]

I missed the 'if'.

[Aj The Epic]

....Oh, so it's fine for them to send to vedith/CDB?

[Aj The Epic]

A wise choice!

Titus, what about vedith's play makes you comfortable with him? You pointed out one post in his exchange with tallah but honestly the rest of them were pretty bad.

[Aj The Epic]

playername, 'the friendly neighbor', is town.

The structure in Veegee's is the same.

[Aj The Epic]

It's in quotes for a reason, tallah.

[Aj The Epic]

more importantly, why not just... Idk, let them resend? TBH I kinda want fa_q2 right now due to his claim. If he's scum, that's the role that comes after me tonight.

[Aj The Epic]

Okay, but if we agree to lynch veegee, i want the reason to be independent of his wording of the FN claim.

Do you have an opinion of FA_Q2?

[Aj The Epic]

Can I get your prescription reading glasses?

[Aj The Epic]

Well my natural eyesight is 600/20

[Aj The Epic]

My eyesight is not a lie.

Nor is anything I've said recently.

[Aj The Epic]

I'd like to know what I've lied about.

And you literally have been talking all day if my claim was a lie. How are you just starting to wonder after having voted me and toyed with it for so long?

[Aj The Epic]

@Luna of course.

[Aj The Epic]

The cognitive dissonance Day 1, the me being a secret IC, about Veegee saying he got the same message as you, and now about your eyesight since according to This article that eyesight doesn't even exist... unless you got it backwards which means you get an eyesight ability score of 25 which scores are categorized as "Restricted performance" And now you just said:

My eyesight is not a lie.

Which i've just proved it is, and since you call it out into question as a thing you could have been lying about then i went and brought proof that such an eyesight doesn't exist.

Just because that article says 'legal blindness isn't good anymore' doesn't mean the US doesn't use it :/

(And yes, I accidentally reversed my eyesight: 20/600 instead of 600/20: I just wear my glasses, not prescribe them )

[Aj The Epic]

He got banned to ubers.



Pedit: No, I figured it was a joke. Just tone matched. I still don't know what Luna figures I've been lying about though. And she's probably going off the post "my eyesight is not a lie" as opposed to the other.

[Aj The Epic]

Uhm... First off, the "cog diss" (which it isn't) still isn't a lie. I never said you were a secret IC, you're just conf/obv town. And veegee is the one having issues there, not me.

[Aj The Epic]

Smogon pokemon tier.

[Aj The Epic]

We could just ignore the eyesight part. I don't think Luna has an issue with it.

[Aj The Epic]

Her avatar picture. It changes when she's making a joke.

[Aj The Epic]

But you made up the secret IC

It's like you made a tea party and the imagined the tea.

[Aj The Epic]

But you made up the secret IC

It's like you made a tea party and the imagined the tea.

What?
It was you who said i was confirmed town to everyone u.u

Obvtown conftown it's basically the same thing. (But really, to me it is)

[Aj The Epic]

I'm currently chalking up Veegee's difference up to not direct quoting. And I really don't like that as the primary argument for his lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean, you can try vigging me...

Look, when TheWorst resends the message, there will be no issue for me. I don't think lynching anyone off a FN claim tonight makes any logical sense.

[Aj The Epic]

Good thing it's Friday amirite?

Or you could be American and just excuse it on not liking Football and having nothing to do.

[Aj The Epic]

TIL you can secrete innocent child.

I wonder what the extract is used for.

[Aj The Epic]

we wait on IaI to be useful.

[Aj The Epic]

CDB, I agree, this is a weird game.

My gut feel is VG is town. That's part of why I chose to send him a message.

I still have Luna and Talah as town and I think Titus is town too.

I've been thinking AJ was town but I'm worried that he is scum trying to play town leader.


Off-topic: Titus, hope you feel better soon!

VOTE: FA_Q2

Excuse me for not buying that.

[Aj The Epic]

The quote from my last post was ignored because I forgot I grabbed it.

I've been thinking AJ was town but I'm worried that he is scum trying to play town leader.

Really? I've not been able to do much of anything today, so I don't understand what would lead you to believe that. Your statement is very disconnected considering that this day has been going on for nearly a week.


FA_Q2's claim is too easy. He's counterclaiming someone who has been under pressure all day, could've done so earlier and more importantly, IaI outted himself by asking FA_Q2 if he had bulletproof (and to indicate any other target other than himself). And quite simply, his role can't exist side by side to mine.

[Aj The Epic]

They're provable.

Didn't IaI say he targeted FA_Q2?

[Aj The Epic]

Okay, no he stated tallah.

All I'm going to say is this: I'm not lying about the doc claim. However, I was hoping to not die the subsequent night.

[Aj The Epic]

@AJ - That's objectively the wrong vote if you believe FAQ visited me and IaI targetted me with a vig shot last night.

No, it actually isn't in the case that IaI is scum with FA_Q2. If someone is scum in this scenario, the only certainty is FA_Q2.

[Aj The Epic]

Lynch me then, but when I flip town you take out Fa_Q2 followed by IAI if he can't prove his vig.

[Aj The Epic]

@AJ, Do you stand firm in eliminating you being lying town?

I already stated my doc role is true.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm a town doctor. I have one BP, claimed two because I wasn't sure of the shot. If it was me, I wanted to protect myself without allowing a second shot to simply drop me. The only lie about my role has been the amount of BPs I have.

[Aj The Epic]

Why would I openly admit to lying about it?

[Aj The Epic]

Lynching a FN is not the play today. Just make sure you send the damn neighbor message to someone not suspected.

[Aj The Epic]

It makes absolutely 0 sense and outing me was only beneficial for scum, which I'm starting to think you are.

Lol? Because A, there's another FN in the town and B, the doctor is the one saying it and could handle the protections.

[Aj The Epic]

I wanted to put it in the open. Riddle me this: Why do I claim you as FN as scum? My team already knows and can quietly assassinate you.

[Aj The Epic]

If it helps, I don't think that I was shot.

I wanted to put it in the open. Riddle me this: Why do I claim you as FN as scum? My team already knows and can quietly assassinate you.

Are you saying scum has day talk?

Why not say "I received a FN notice, but it wasn't from Skybird?" Why was outting the person so critical if your objective was to cast suspicion on Skybird's claim?

Regardless day talk or not, it's not like scum wouldn't talk between the next NK.

As for why not in any other way, it would've been pressed for and I wasn't exactly thinking of ways to hide Worst.

[Aj The Epic]

The second is reasonable, the first is insane. However, if I was going to do that, I would've come out on D2 and voted Skybird using it as a counterclaim of sorts.

[Aj The Epic]

First is insane from the perspective of it being almost impossible for it to work.

[Aj The Epic]

If I get lynched, here's how I want the night actions played:

IaI, if you are vig, strike and kill one of veegee, Performer, Vedith or Sal. FA_Q2 protect Luna. No lenience on Fa_q2's protect. The next day, if IaI isn't proven vig, he dies and FA_Q2 follows. Otherwise, I'd like to see that pool of targets drained pretty fast

[Aj The Epic]

No. I will not be protecting who you point to. End of story. Don't bother asking again.

If I'm lynched you better believe I expect you to follow that.

[Aj The Epic]

That vote is as forced as your claim.

[Aj The Epic]

You say mine is suspect, you don't claim. There's no effective reason for this.
IaI basically reveals his role before you claim. More importantly, his claim only comes through halfway through the day.
You have an issue with me upon flipping town telling you how the night actions should go, perhaps dodging out and trying to make sure there's no holes in your claim.


And really, you didn't deny that your vote was forced.

[Aj The Epic]

If either one of IaI or Tallah is scum, FA_Q2 is scum with them.

[Aj The Epic]

Then let's settle this day and let the night actions sort themselves as much as we can. I'd still like Vedith lynched.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't believe this choof/mence/fire spot is scum. Exclude all claimed roles today and prior town reads, the lynch, for me, comes from this group:

Performer
ChannelDelibird
Vedith
VeeGee

VOTE: Vedith

[Aj The Epic]

You're going in the wrong direction.

[Aj The Epic]

I just don't think all those roles can prove themselves at night. Some will fall out naturally.

[Aj The Epic]

And unfortunately nothing I do will help you understand that you're wrong.

[Aj The Epic]

Or as a town doc, I was predicting the inevitable NK that comes in for doctors?

[Aj The Epic]

Because A.) I was tired of the fact the town was blindly sheeping titus and probably going to come straight for me and B.) I was pretty sure the BP would keep me alive for the time being.

[Aj The Epic]

Because A.) I was tired of the fact the town was blindly sheeping titus and probably going to come straight for me and B.) I was pretty sure the BP would keep me alive for the time being.

If this is true then why was your thought that mafia shot you and not that a vig shot you?

A.) No reason to believe a vig existed B.) I only mentioned that I wasn't sure if I had been shot because nothing specifically stated it was you who got shot.

[Aj The Epic]

Best defense in this thread.

[Aj The Epic]

Scenario two has nothing to do with me luna. That claim would only undermine my own and would not be made if IaI was on my scumteam.

[Aj The Epic]

I can't defend my role so I'm not even going to bother with that.

[Aj The Epic]

Guys, we need to coalesce. Please around VeeGee or Firebringer. Ty. AJ is a plausible compromise but I would rather have night actions resolve shit.

Why are you still townreading performer though...?

Of the two, I prefer veegee. Firebringer's predecessors in banana and sal have been null at worst to me.

[Aj The Epic]

If FA_Q2 wants to protect one of the FN claims, I'll be attempting to protect a hard town read. we can do this vice-versa but let's make sure we're not overlapping where we are looking to protect.

[Aj The Epic]

It's not happening like that AJ. What's happening is we're weighing the FN pool against the Vig pool because one is likely not the other.

FN pool gets message.

Vig pool prevents message being killed.

But should FA_Q2 actually be a bodyguard, we're not going to overlap our protections. So we each should have our own pool of people we plan to look into.

[Aj The Epic]

@IaI

Yeah CDB and Thezmon (slot I replaced into) were under heavy scrutiny. It was a super uncomfortable game and I try not to think about that one too much.

[Aj The Epic]

Then at least add Talah to the FN pool and throw both FB and Performer into the vig one.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Firebringer

This day is going on for too long. We now have the two pools so let's get something to happen.

[Aj The Epic]

"Majiffy is scum with us"

[Aj The Epic]

It's mostly you both have black avatars with writing right now.

[Aj The Epic]

Seconded

Just so long as we don't start flipping before death, it's all potassium.

[Aj The Epic]

Wait we have a JK now too? wtf?

[Aj The Epic]

This town isn't big enough for that.

[Aj The Epic]

For the FN roles, we can simply let them re-send. That's been solved. As for FA_Q2, I'm fine with lynching him.

[Aj The Epic]

No. I only backed off my activity because it was too abrasive. As for scum, try again.

Personally, I prefer Performer but the town is having none of it.

[Aj The Epic]

Titus doesn't want it, Luna doesn't want to listen to a thing I say anymore (truly, it's worthless paranoia at this point) and no one really wants to go anywhere but where those two are.

Performer's day 1 performance was less than stellar. He passes it off as baiting a nk but if he was, he should've reverted when he was getting lynched (all the way to L-1 multiple times until titus pulled a counter wagon). Regardless, his responses largely stuck to himself and lacked any form of engagement. He's played decidedly different today but that might be because titus has him as a permanent unlynchable.

[Aj The Epic]

I still don't like lynching claimed vig out of policy of it's pretty provable. Unless we're arguing SK.

UNVOTE:

However, I agree firebringer isn't the lynch for today.

[Aj The Epic]

You're a sheep.

[Aj The Epic]

1362 gives you two scum reads, FA_Q2 and I. I'm not convinced you aren't salty that Tallah and I still see you as scum, along with a few other players.

[Aj The Epic]

That's the last one I find.

Not surprised with Luna. Unfortunately she's spent the entire day scrapping together bad reasons I could be scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Well, good job by town massively sucking two days in a row by trying to justify a vig lynch and settling for their town doctor.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm finally home.

I agree unvoting one wagon while refusing to vote the other is pretty crappy. Why did you do that AJ?

Because I've never scumread Fire(esp Sala) and I think lynching a vig is an awful strategy.

[Aj The Epic]

Riddle me this: Unless both people being lynched are my buddies, why WOULDN"T I just hop? This town has some sort of blood-tinted goggles with me.

[Aj The Epic]

@AJ, final reads?

Still convinced performer is scum. Still convinced Tallah is town. I don't see Fire as scum. I would be suspicious of luna, though. She lacked any semblance of a logical progression today. FA_Q2's role makes him suspect. If tallah OR IaI is scum, so is he.

For the love of god someone kill performer.

And I don't know whether or not IaI is a vig: It's simply provable and not really worth the hassle of lynching a great weapon for the town until otherwise known.

[Aj The Epic]

FA_Q2, you better protect TheWorst if you're town. That's confirmed town when I die.

[Aj The Epic]

Your reads progressed, your logic did not follow. I protected you based on the fact that I didn't CARE if choof's slot died. Scum will target the people that are the biggest threat to hunting them down N1, not some innocent child knock off.

[Aj The Epic]

But every time you try to explain why I'm scum outside of my role, you ended up backtracking because your logic didn't follow.

Luna, you never suspected FA_Q2 for a moment. And it doesn't matter what you expect, this will make you 0/2.

[Aj The Epic]

It just pisses me off that we get someone to come in, ruin a great lynch off of five pages of reading and declare me as scum to the extent that nothing I say had any merit the rest of the game. This off the back of the lynch you chose being town.

So far, people who replace in and don't read the entire thread but still lead the lynch wagon for the day are at a shocking 0-2 record getting scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah i totally never suspected FAQ2

In all seriousness,

FA's not a townread

, but i want to lynch the claimed PRs, more so the doctor that doesn't make sense, the only reason im not doing so right now is because im letting scum deal with them if they aren't scum.

What great conviction.

[Aj The Epic]

Because you said you didnt want to lynch the Vig, yet you unvoted and that made the Vig the only viable wagon at the time.

Because the IaI wagon is ass considering we can use that regardless SK/Vig (their objective is the same for the early stages) and I didn't like fire's wagon (as well as Performer was the lead on it?)

[Aj The Epic]

But yeah there's a lot of scum on my wagon. It formed pretty damn easily if you didn't notice.

[Aj The Epic]

It's a good scum tactic, you unvote the counterwagon to make sure the other wagon goes through without you needing to get your hands dirty.

No it isn't. I just sit there and pretend I didn't come back for the end of the day and nothing happens.

P-edit: I wanted to end the day at that point but I'm pretty certain it's just a town death. I also didn't notice Performer on him.

[Aj The Epic]

Hence why he was a bad wagon.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah, and you made it more possible for him to be lynched, GO YOU!

It's a catch-22: Lynch a town read or lynch a vig.

You still haven't explained why me unvoting was a scum claim because you CAN'T. Nothing behind it is explicitly scum motivated.

[Aj The Epic]

[quote="In
Scum claim right here. Unvoting the only alternative to the claimed vig while saying "he doesnt want to lynch claimed vig" so it becomes the only viable wagon.

Again, I don't feel either are scum. More importantly, Why would I have not just fucking hammered off IaI if fire is my buddy, make up some bullshit excuse about "Oh well IaI fabricating against me" blah blah blah and make you all waste another day trying to come after me? It doesn't make sense for scum me.

Dont really like phone posting but aj is at L-1 i think.

Aj didnt want vig lynch but unvoted the only other wagon (FB) I don't disagree with FB scum but Aj may very well be the partner for this stunt more when I'm home in half an hour

I would've revoted performer, however it would've been token and nothing more.

Neither of these have any logical progression of "aj is scum because"

[Aj The Epic]

And as I stated, i'd just pretend I wasn't back for the end of the day?

[Aj The Epic]

But... If Fire is town, and I'm scum, I don't give a shit. So what? I'm on a town lynch with the majority of the wagon being town and having not hammered nor participated in it in any meaningful way.

As for me being partners, if that's true, I go and lynch IaI, claim I felt he was framing me. Too easy.

[Aj The Epic]

Scummier than what? The opinion wasn't going to change much.

[Aj The Epic]

>Self-awareness
>Something I do as scum

No? Show me this trend for me. If I'm close to being caught, I take down what I can before I die. Not just unvote. This is common sense, Luna. There's NO NEED for me to push out and play anything dangerous that close to a lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Performer

This is scum. Luna is probscum. Night.

[Aj The Epic]

Sorry for being helping compare my decisions to what I WOULD DO, since it's been in question all day.

[Aj The Epic]

I think so.
There was a role claim of you right? Or am I thinking of something else?

I didn't roleclaim anything, AJ said i was a secret IC.

I'm flipping town. I don't fuck with people like this if I'm scum.

[Aj The Epic]

also that statement in quotes is complete bullshit. forgot it was there, though.

[Aj The Epic]

And you encourage luna to...

God that was frustrating. I'm not going to talk about it because it's not going to help but damn. A lot of it was on me for being in my first full town game since I returned (prior had only been a replacement) but I'm still pissed with everything outside that. Oh well...

[Aj The Epic]

It really depends: Some people are really natural at scumhunting. But time is a huge factor in someone's ability. Not in relation to others, but I think of someone like Notscience or MetalSonic (rip) and their improvements from when they started. It is superbly obvious the kind of improvements they were able to make. I don't see him now, but someone like Fuzzybutternuts made huge improvements over the first half a year playing.

Be willing to play more with you guys (already have w/Vedith, fire, luna... as well as taking another loss to IaI... Jesus). Yeah, stick around and let's try to do better next time.

As for elitism, take it as nostalgia. As I've mentioned, I started playing in 2010 offsite and one of the huge things is that tells fall in and out of style. What was too scummy to be scum is now meta scum. The game is actually constantly evolving in that aspect. The other part is we're all missing friends who simply don't play anymore. I had a group of 10 I used to play with offsite and I can't find any of them anymore. Kinda sucks in that respect.