Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[Kison]

Vote : FeRnAnDo

, because this is a random vote.

[Kison]

A bit off topic: What does FOS mean? Quite a few people use it...

Finger of Suspicion

Game-related content from me later.

[Kison]

I realize that offing an innocent is bad, but we have no guarantee than Karen is innocent, in fact, she's just as likely to be scum as any of us, and if we have to lynch someone it may as well be her.

I dont buy it...our first day lynch should not be this easy...you dont find some of the votes on here...well, strange?...weak excuse? and explanations that paint her has bad town, not scum?

I wouldn't say they're weak excuses, they're actually perfectly good excuses. We can't let Karen coast to endgame, she'd just kill us there. The fact that she hasn't been lynched already makes me think there's a good chance she's scum.

Unvote

Vote : Cephir

Are you _kidding_ me? It is page

six

, and you are more certain that Karen is scum because

she has not been lynched???

Personally, I am getting more of the frustrated townie vibes than pure scum vibes from her. But hey, let's go and lynch anyone who becomes frustrated.

[Kison]

I am still not feeling the Karen wagon.

[Kison]

Your actions yesterday were disconcerting, yes, Karen ended up being town, but there was the possibility she was scum coupled with her inability to aid the town in ANY WAY. It was obvious that our best option yesterday was to lynch her and you were completely opposed to it but gave us no better ideas.

Legitimizing a failure of a wagon.

that shows how you could be pushing for her death without voting. I got to say that twomz raises valid points that you just dismissed wihtout countering.

Accusing someone who indirectly

supported

the failure of the wagon. Yes, I understand that the scum vibe comes from the indirection, but that's not the point. The point is the

support

contradicts the next "theory" :

I honestly believe that most of the people voting for karen yesterday were town. She gave us NO CHOICE. We had to lynch karen yesterday. I think it would have been in the scum's (both mafia and wolves) best interest for her to still be alive cause she would have most definately hindered us later in the game so to me, the people defending her the most agressively are the most suspicious.

So it was a town wagon(how convenient). Scum wanted Karen to live(also convenient). Yet GreenDay tried to have Karen lynch and is scum.

Your last FoS is also laughable.

Vote : Zoneace

...But I haven't been very active in this game, so I must be scum as well.


Now on a personal note, I do agree that GreenDay's indirect support of the wagon is a strong scummy vibe. However, I disagree with the BS Zoneace is saying about the Karen wagon being a grand valiant attempt by the town to rid themselves of a troubled soul and that they had no choice. The only hindrance Karen gave off was causing us to lynch her. Keeping her alive another day would have simply delayed that outcome.

[Kison]

oh and Kison, way to vote me for, for explaining SOMEONE ELSES THEORY to greenday

Maybe if you used quote tags and pointed out the mistake you seem to think I made, I wouldn't have to ask what you're talking about. Which theory that I quoted/commented on did I mistakingly attribute to you?

[Kison]

Unvote

Vote : GreenDay

I don't think the position on Karen's wagon has a lot to do with whether or not someone is going to be scum. I'd guess there were multiple scum either on the wagon or supporting it, but GreenDay
s indirect support for the wagon while trying to cover it up the next day is more bothersome to me, whether or not the Karen lynch was one I think was justified.

[Kison]

Unvote

Vote : GreenDay

I don't think the position on Karen's wagon has a lot to do with whether or not someone is going to be scum. I'd guess there were multiple scum either on the wagon or supporting it, but GreenDay
s indirect support for the wagon while trying to cover it up the next day is more bothersome to me, whether or not the Karen lynch was one I think was justified.

Are you choosing this wagon over the Cephrir wagon or just plain voteing green day? ....(I will explain why im asking)

I'm voting Green Day because I think his actions warrant it. I don't think Cephrir's actions are as bad, personally.

No, not voting him because he is a wagon, if that's what you're asking me.

[Kison]

Kison is voting you. Kison did not vote Karen.

Try addressing some of the things brought up against you.

[Kison]

and

unvote

Cephrir is not acting scummy enough to warrant a vote.

So, let me get this straight : Cephrir has not acted scummy enough to warrant the vote you already had on him? Were you trying to be slick with that logic and unvote under the radar?

My vote is staying on Green Day for now.

I don't like Zoneace's sudden indecisiveness.

[Kison]

Green Day needs to come back so we can lynch him.

Blight looking worse.

[Kison]

Just because Karen was ridiculously bad for the town does not mean that scum did all they could to keep her alive. She was an easy lynch candidate, and my bet is that scum did take advantage of the opportunity. Of course, the who and how many are a mystery, but Green Day's playing both sides of the card while going against the side that wound up being played is what strikes me as an obvious scum tell. That's kind of why he's being voted for.

[Kison]

Although I support Green Day deathage at this point, the wagons are pretty close, and the tide _could_ change.

[Kison]

I don't think a replacement is going to help much if we look at today as the end of Green Day, but like I said, the tide could change, and Green Day may live another day.

[Kison]

Not much to add. Still waiting on Thorn's response.

[Kison]

Why Zoneace, Dybeck, over Cephrir?

[Kison]

There is no F in ZONEACE

[Kison]

Vote : ZoneFACELIFT

He did push the Karen wagon, but that's fine. What's not fine is trying to legitimize it along with trying to pass up the idea that there were few scum on the wagon when it wound up that she was town. I've stated why I think this is the case before.

This is not to say I refuse to vote Cephrir.

[Kison]

Wonderful post, Twomz.

"Hey, I agree with everyone else. I think I'll vote for who everyone else is voting for, for reasons used by everyone else."

He does have a point. Twomz, you should at least point out

which

reasons you agree with. If you've done so, please refer a post where you have done so?

Zoneace : What do you think of the Cephrir situation?

And it's not like Zoneace isn't scum. I'm rather starting to believe he's scum with you, actually. And that's gut too.

This is kind of what I was about to get into...

[Kison]

Kison, thinktank: You had voted for Cephir on Day One. What exactly has made you change your mind to not vote for him where there's a chance to actually lynch him?

Zone Facelift was higher priority for me later in the game. Didn't like his pushes on Karen and the other wagons first of all, but primarily disliked how he tried to justify Karen by claiming that scum weren't on the wagon because she was "beneficial to keep around"

In fact, I should probably be voting him now.

Vote : ZoneACE

CKD fucked up but I have a hard time seeing scum do that so blatantly. Could be wrong. Could be WIFOM. I dunno!

[Kison]

Zone Facelift was higher priority for me later in the game. Didn't like his pushes on Karen and the other wagons first of all, but primarily disliked how he tried to justify Karen by claiming that scum weren't on the wagon because she was "beneficial to keep around"

In fact, I should probably be voting him now.

Vote : ZoneACE

CKD fucked up but I have a hard time seeing scum do that so blatantly. Could be wrong. Could be WIFOM. I dunno!

I completely forgot you were in this game, MAYBE CAUSE YOU'RE A GIANT LURKER. interesting that you show up when we start going after CKD, scum buddy much?


seriously, this guy posted a total of 9 times in the entire month of october. This is his first post of November, almost 2 weeks in, and it comes when CKD is the focus of the towns suspicions.

FOS KISON

I love you too, ZA.

Doesn't change the fact I find your previous actions scummy. I mean, CKD at least admits he was wrong. You still try to make yourself out to be

more

innocent the Karen wagon.

Not to mention, CKD was hardly the only one pushing the Cephrir wagon - that had been going on for a long time, and even I was convinced it was a decent avenue to take. Volunteering to be lynched is a stupid move, however.

[Kison]

sorry my bad, But i still like my vote, mainly because of Kison showing up suddenly after 2 weeks of not positng. He shows up when you're in danger after lurking the entire game.

I've showed up at many points in the game. Why does this one in particular interest you?

[Kison]

because you show up at hte exact time he's in danger of being lynched, after 2 weeks of NOTHING, you are clearly intentionally lurking, and you picked this time to post, its deliverate, and it is my belief that you are scum with CKD.

Actually, I picked this time because I got a prod.

[Kison]

So if someone who hasn't posted in a while , comes and defends somebody who is danger of getting lynched - that would make them automatically scum buddies? Weird Logic to say the least ..

FOS : Zoneace

No it doesn't automatically make them scumbuddies. BUT, my original suspicions, coupled with the shoddy claim and sudden reappearance makes them scum buddies.

Kison appears when Kison pleases ! He has no scum ties. No lies.

Truth.

CKD, why the fuck did you vote yourself yesterday? Self votes almost never aid in gaining my trust.

I am not going to survive the night if I dont hang today...my lynch will provide a ton of information this damn town needs...this BW is one of the scummiest I have seen ever on this site.

Whaddya know! The fact you're still alive isn't what bugs me - it's the fact you used it as an argument. Primarily, you pleaded much of yesterday, then play the "i need to be lynched" card to come across as lacking self-preservation.

thats how it looks, but the two sorcerers are like 1 one since there will never be more than one protection attempt a day. and as far as we know there could be more.

Two that are one, but with two lives, where, if one is expired, the other becomes a half. So slightly more beneficial.

Where peers made his mistake was not seeing the possibility that you could have been protected by the doc that night. And tar was just making up numbers based on the Night choices i revealed.

I agree with this. People are assuming that Tar is telling the truth in full with what he is saying about his "role" - we don't know who

really

targeted CKD. We just know the Mafia did, as per Peer's claim. As a result, there's nothing to prove that his kill was not prevented by some other means.




OK! I'm thinking lynching Tar was a slight boo-boo. We just lost ouf frakking anti-Mafia informant. Good news is that other Wolves can't be NK'd, so when we do find another, they'll tell us whatever information they know on the other, assuming they do so before they're hammered(thinking they have a way out of it). I say from now on, before we hammer, we leave that on the table.

Thinking we might find Mafia in the people opposing going after CKD/Oobalooba, but instead wanting to go after Tar - they'd obviously want to get rid of the informant.

Thinking we should hear the target.

[Kison]

He should definitely be the default vote, I agree, but if he has a name today, we should seriously consider following up on it TODAY. That way, he will be here tomorrow to potentially give us another name if his team hits another blocked kill.

Why's it matter? Obviously, with 2 teams, there are 2 night kills. Getting rid of one team more quickly means we lose a night kill more quickly.

Whenever he runs out of names should be the time the default kicks in, I think.

[Kison]

If they hit a wolf peers will try and save his ass again..if he hits a power role he will piss him self laughing.He was dead anyway. Town- please play this day right....You have let scum dominate this game.

Are you suggesting Peers is purposely trying to deceive us, or simply that his information is not 100% accurate? I can accept that the name he'll give us is not guaranteed Wolfscum, but...

I'm thinking deception would be a mistake on their part, if they did indeed choose to deceive us. Peers is our informant. If we lynch someone and his information is inaccurate, he will become our default vote. Once he is lynched, we lose our informant, and will not gain another until another Mafia member outs themself. That makes their job of lynching wolves significantly more difficult, as they've lost the crutch over the wolves of being able to direct people without being subtle about it.

they went for the wrong guy..all you got was a plain townie...so you have just hurt your case..again town just let them lynch me.l.then re-read my posts..im off for the weekend (as always) dont really give a shit about this game now..lol...im off to get drunk....FRIDAY WOOOOOOOOOO

Hey DAS, if you're scum, do us a favor and become our informant. You refuse to do so now, and your team will only be able to tell us names when your THIRD wolf gets outed... Hmm... that's an oucher.

Actually, nevermind. We gotta lynch one of ya today, and I'm thinking you're the better option.

Vote : davidangelsummers

[Kison]

Hell no, he ain't shooting me.

ZoneFace, we aren't lynching Peers, nor are we lynching Kison; we're lynching Lil' Red's house-guest. Maybe tomorrow. Anyway, I may not be 100% active with this game, but at least I'm with it. Are you?

By the by, how many wolves do you think are in the game, ZFace? Cause', quite frankly, the only point you've brought up against me was my "valiant effort" to "conveniently" show up to "save" the Karma Mutt, despite my vote on you being consistent with my previous play(I was voting you when CKD pushed so hard for Cephy)... Yet he and oobalooba kind of have to be scum together, if they are in fact scum. If you're right about all this, then god damn, that's 3 wolves you've nailed. Wonder why I'm trying to so hard to keep Peers alive, when he's such a threat to us wolves... Hmm...

Kill me Peers and you are lynched tomorrow. Right, I'd be saying this as a wolf, but read the paragraph above and then reassess that. Kison recommends you actually try hitting a Wolf tonight.

[Kison]

If Peers hits a townie, he doesn't get lynched tomorrow. He's now essentially our vigilante. It just means we picked the wrong target for him to shoot. Near as I can tell neither Twomz nor Kison have the power to lynch on your own, so it's kind of an empty threat.

No, it is not a threat. We can't work this game giving el scumbag indefinite immunity. Eventually, we

will

have to string him up like a pinata. Therefore, I will reiterate what I just said : Peers, you need to hit accurately.

So Kison, Twomz and anyone else - you might want to plead your case for not being a wolf to him and give him a better suggestion on who to shoot.

I ain't pleading to Senor Peers De Luca Lombardi. I have already stated how my Wolfullness is unlikely. Short of claiming, there's not much more I can do.

As for who I'd like to see dodge a bullet tonight, I'd say ZFace, although, Twomz works. Problem is, could be Mafia. If they are, you might want to let us know, Peers, so we stop suggesting them.

if they lynch a townie we haven't picked for investigation, does that mean we string up Peers? I'm not sure what the tame mafia protocol is here.

I will say yes, just in case you are Mafia, and you're trying to get sneaky with us! There's NO reason for Peers not to tell us who _he_ thinks is a good idea right here and now. If he goes off on some random tangent tonight without giving us warning, it's only an indication that they're not wanting to cooperate with us. Therefore, I see no reason to let him mob up my granny's neighborhood any further if that's the game he wishes to play.

[Kison]

Wolfsbane was confirmed via MOD through a kill. Logically there should be an identical role VS Mafia kills. Sorcerers aren't confirmed yet.

[Kison]

OK! Here's the thing...

First, we know that the following exist :

~~Anti Mafia~~
1) Doctor
2) Nurse

~~Anti Wolves~~
1) Wolfsbane

Using this, we can draw up some possible setup scenarios...

SETUP NUMBER ONE

~~Anti Mafia~~
1)

Doc

2)

Nurse

3) Sorcerer-equiv
4) Sorcerer-equiv

~~Anti Wolves~~
1)

Wolfsbane

2) Backup Wolfsbane
3) Sorcerer
4) Sorcerer

This setup would require for there to be a minimum of 5 pro-town players remaining in the game from the perspective of a bystander. Seeing as DAS was a Wolf, and there was a Wolf kill last night, there were 3 wolves _MINIMUM_ to start the game. That, logically would leave 3 Mafia minimum at the start of the game as well. That means 3 mafia(min) + 1 wolf(min) = 4 scum(min). 10 - 4 = 6 townies maximum.

6 - 5 = 1 role-less townie.

Possible? Perhaps it is.

SETUP NUMBER TWO

~~Anti Mafia~~
1) Doc
2) Nurse

~~Anti Wolf~~
1) Wolfsbane
2) Sorcerer
3) Sorcerer

Here is my beef with scenario #2 : The Sorcerers, as I recall, did not have to wait for the Wolfsbane to die in order for their power to kick in. As a result, there have were 2 protections going on per night between the beginning of the game up to the time where the Wolfsbane died, yet it was only against Werewolf kills. This creates an imbalance, also because it requires 2 Werewolf kills to eliminate the second protection. For this scenario to work, there would have be a crutch for the Werewolves. Perhaps an extra member?

SETUP NUMBER THERE

~~Anti Mafia~~
1) Doc
2) Nurse

~~Anti Wolf~~
1) Wolfsbane
2) Wolfsbane Backup

This scenario requires that the Sorcerers are lying. This also requires there to be 4 Werewolves(2 dead + 2 claimed sorcerers). Since this setup is balanced, there would then have to be 4 Mafia, leaving a mere FOUR pro-town players left in the game.


Conclusion : If the Sorcerers are lying, there are probably only 4 townies left. If the sorcerers are telling the truth, there is either an abundant supply of protective roles, or an imbalanced setup which may be offset by an extra Wolf-puppy.

This is all theory. Please comment.

[Kison]

I forgot you had claimed BV, Cicero. My bad.

[Kison]

I got bored of this game.

It's fun now.

Get over it.

[Kison]

That is MY line.

More later.

[Kison]

Hey guys,

First I would like to just clarify the roleclaims and such thus far. No I'm not trying to fish or any of that nonsense so don't even try, but I think it's important to keep on record what we think we're dealing with so we can begin to scratch off improbable suspects and try and crack what's going on here. It makes it easier for me to keep things straight, anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

~~Claimed Players~~

1) curiouskarmadog - Sorcerer
2) ooba - Sorcerer
3) Peers - Mafia
4) cicero - Bulletproof Vest

~~Unclaimed Players~~

1) Twomz
2) ZONEACE
3) TheHermit
4) Kison
5) Sikario8
6) Kanaga


A couple of things here... I think Cicero's claim is fairly sound and fairly incontraversial. We had a Wolfsbane. Wolfsbane, to my understanding, is like the antiwolf BV. Cicero claimed BV. There was no counterclaim. That's kind of a big risk. I see no reason for there not to be a BV. Does anyone else?

I think many people voiced agreement to the 3 VS 3 scum thing. If that is the case, I do not see how the two Sorcerers can be wolves when there are 2 dead wolves already.

Peers is scum. Duh.

If anyone can bring something up against those claims that I missed, I'd be glad to hear it. Until then, I think I'm putting my focus towards the other list when it comes to flushing out the 3 remaining scum.

What we think we're after here : 1 wolf, 2 mafia. Peers is Mafia, we already have him. The suspects, pending refutable arguments against the claims, are the six unclaimed players. I'm not suggesting we have a mass claim at this point(but I would not be against discussing the possibility).

If we are right in all of this, we got a 50% shot of hitting scum of either alignment. From my perspective, it is 3/5 or 60%. I like those odds.

Other thing to keep in mind, is that if we assume 3/3 mafia/werewolf, that's 1/3 remaining, so four scum. 10 players. 6 townies.

First order of business!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

TWO MIDDLE FINGERS OF SUSPICION TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO LYNCH PEERS!!!!

SERIOUSLY. That means YOU, Twomz. I know that I threatened it yesterday, but it was more to make sure Peers wasn't going to try to fuck with us. More on that later.

Think about this for a minute. Peers is a GUARANTEED out-card for us at any point where we are stuck at LyLo. We KNOW he's Mafia. We can CLIP him when we NEED to. So if by tomorrow we're at LyLo w/ only Mafia, we clip Peers as the guaranteed out card. We come back to day, finish the job of hunting his two pillow buddies.

Let me CLARIFY it for those who aren't quite ON TOP OF THINGS.

Let us imagine for a moment we are in LyLo. We also know all 4 remaining scum. WONDERFUL. What do we do? We lynch them in progression. 1...2...3...4 Game over. The scum are no threat if we know who they are.

Now, I would agree with lynching our lil' friend Peers De Luca Impierioli Lombardo, except for one little thing...

If we don't lynch the wolf today, Peers can help find the wolf tonight.

More importantly, killing the Wolf should be #1 priority so we get rid of that very... fucking... bad... second night kill. If we lynch Peers, well no shit we won't lynch the Werewolf today.

Peers, in case you're a little delusional, you're a dead man walking right now. Missing the Werewolf at night ain't gonna save you. Like I said. If we get to LyLo, we're stringing you up like that roadkill we butchered for dinner last night. I appreciate your consideration in helping us lose only one Townie last night, but you still kinda missed Ol' Yeller.

Ok, on to bigger and better things.

Vote : Zoneace

This guy is scum. Karma Mutt sums it up nicely.

More later.

[Kison]

.......I'm sorry, I don't get it... I get FOSed for wanting to lynch someone we KNOW is scum now instead of later? And what is the "The scum are no threat if we know who they are" BS? OF COURSE THEY ARE A THREAT! THEY ARE TRYING TO FUCKING KILL US!!! The less of them there are the better.

Hey Skidrow, PEERS is no threat to us because we KNOW who he is.

You are crossing two completely separate things here. Do NOT confuse what I said with thinking that the other 3 scum are not dangerous because we know who Peers is. What I am saying is that if, theoretically speaking, we had all 4 scum pegged with confessions, they would not be a threat because we would KNOW to lynch them 4 days in progression.

The same is the case with Peers. We need to lynch him. It doesn't matter when. It just matters that it is done before the Town loses the game. In a typical Mafia game, it would indeed make sense to lynch off the Mafia ASAP if we had them pegged. However, that is not the case, here. The Mafia can be used as an investigative power right now.

Yes, I realize that keeping Peers around is not going to guarantee anything of yield, but it will not hurt us keeping him around until the other team is dead, just in case. He's already dead. We just haven't

spent

one of our lynches on him yet. I think your problem is that you think that by keeping him around, we are wasting lynches.

[Kison]

Ok, since going into detail does not seem to work, let me just give you what I'm saying in the plainest English I can think of :

If we lynch Peers today, is that going to stop his Mafia team from shooting whoever they want? No.

If we keep Peers alive, will that leave open the possibility that they try and target a Werewolf? Maybe.

If we lynch a Werewolf today, will that stop the second Night Kill? Yes, assuming there are 3 Werewolves total.

If we lynch Peers today, will we lynch a Werewolf today? Not unless we can somehow double lynch.

Can we? No.

If we lynch Peers today, will there be two attempted night kills? Yes.

If we lynch someone else today, will that prevent us from lynching Peers tomorrow if we so desire? No.

If we lynch a Townie today, will Peers tell us who his team targeted if their kill was blocked? Probably - I can't think of any reason for them NOT to, regardless of whether or not they follow our requests for who to target. This point really doesn't matter. It's more about getting rid of the Werewolves since it will require, as we assume, 1 more lynch rather than 3 lynches on the Mafia.

Ta Dow.

[Kison]

Hi,

why not have Peers check Kison or Kanaga?

Because, you know, it's so wolf-like to keep Dr. PepPeer alive, right?

WHY WOULD PEERS EVEN TRY TO HELP US? IF WE CONTINUE TO LET HIM LIVE WE JUST KEEP GIVING THE MAFIA WHAT THEY NEED TO WIN; AN EASY PATH TO A MAJORITY.

THAT IS NOT THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE. THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE IS TO LYNCH A WEREWOLF. TO LYNCH A WEREWOLF, WE MUST LYNCH SOMEONE OTHER THAN PEERS TODAY. WHETHER OR NOT PEERS COOPERATES IS A SECONDARY OBJECTIVE.

CAN I STOP YELLING NOW?

<3

If we lynch someone other than peers and we're wrong, guess what that leaves, 9 people alive 4 of them scum.

If we lynch Peers, 2 townies could die tonight. If the Mafia kill is blocked, we do not know who they targeted. Now by tomorrow, guess what? We're back at square 1 again. We need to kill the Werewolf. If we mislynch, we go into the scenario you just said, except AGAIN we no longer have Peers if the Mafia cross-kills. And AGAIN we will potentially lose 2 Townies at night. So why should we wait until tomorrow instead of trying to knock it out today? Give me one good reason why reversing the lynch order is beneficial. I can give you a reason why it is beneficial to keep it the way it is... Oh wait, I believe I already have on numerous occasions.

Oobalooba, am I Mafia because I am fighting to keep Peers alive? Does it occur to you that what I'm saying benefits the Town just as much as it does the Mafia?

Just sayin'

<3 Cicero.

[Kison]

umm if you're trying to lynch the last werewolf why are you attempting ot lynch me. I'm not a wolf. If you want to lynch the last wolf, you may want to look at theHermit as CA (who thehermit replaced) seemed to be connected to DAS. Thats who you need to look at if you want to lynch the last wolf. But attempting ot find the last wolf is a crap shoot which is why we should go for the DEFINIT LYNCH in peers.

'

ZA, I love ya and all, but did you even read my post and how I showed how it's better to take a shot at it now rather than later? That's kinda why I'm voting you and all. You seem to be ignoring what seems like common sense.

[Kison]

To my knowledge, my play is consistent with how it was from before DAS was outed. So much for the Lone Wolf theory.

[Kison]

I presume he's saying that it's because Peers is Mafia and you know that is the reason why he's being difficult.

Or maybe I'm losing my sanity!

[Kison]

OK, my personal philosophy on the situation(with or without me being the night kill target), is that regardless of whether or not Peers is going to cooperate, we should not be lynching him today.

My primary objective with today's lynch is that we hit that werewolf. We cannot do that by lynching Peers. The thing is, our list is fairly well narrowed down. 6 names, 5 from my perspective, with 3 scum(presumably) running around. Even if we miss the wolf, we still have a very decent chance of hitting another Mafia member, but the most important thing is there's a

chance

that we eliminate the werewolf AND that night kill.

Peers : Your main argument for me being so blazingly obvious is that I am acting like someone typically would in the last man standing position, correct? Why, then, have I been acting the same today as I would before DAS was outed?

[Kison]

To answer Kison: That's a bit of a wifom, isn't it? Yes, your play has been the same for a while -- specificly, ever since you decided "The game is interesting again", which is about when DAS died, leaving you as the sole Wolf... before, you said the game wasn't interesting, since Tarhalindur and DAS were overruling you on who to target, weren't they? Once they were gone and you got to be Lone Wolf, it began being fun again, so you've been giving the game more attention.

I understand the logic behind what you're trying to say. However, what I'm saying is your timeline is not accurate. I became more active with this game well before DAS was clipped.

Not to mention, if my defense is WIFOM, so is your argument.

[Kison]

I ain't the wolf. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I mean, just for the sake of argument, let's try and make a case against me as opposed to, say, Zoneace.

[Kison]

Significance? I haven't checked up on it, but if what ZA says is right, then the list remains with 6 names, not 5. Better odds for himself.

[Kison]

Hi,

IH and ChocolateAttack were proded before Night 5
IH responded and is still in the game.
ChocolateAttack ignored it and was replaced by TheHermit.

ChocolateAttack was prodded before the Night.

His replacement was announced when the night ended. That means he could very easily have been replaced DURING the night.

Sikario8 (IH (thinktank)) - Way he was replaced pegs him as not a wolf (could be mafia)

IH responded to the prod DR sent before Night Five. Therefore, IH could easily have submitted a night action, especially considering he was active on the site during that time.

The only plausible scenario where I can see this being somewhat legit is if a prod was sent before the night, the prod was ignored throughout the night, and the player was not replaced. That would indicate that no-one was home to submit the night action. Both of these players fail to meet that criteria.

Sorry, but if this is your basis for your "case"(and you acknowledge that it is), then I think it's rather... well... pathetic.

Twomz smells like Mafia. Vote stays on Zoneace.

[Kison]

OK, the Cicero situation is extremely easy, folks. He's a dead man if he's lying, pretty much.

We know there are docs against both teams, right?!? Sorcerers & the dead anti-mafia Doc(WhoMe?). We also know there are at a minimum 3 Werewolves. The only plausible scenario for there to be no BPV is...

1) In the event that there are only 2 Mafia members, in order to create a balance, the BPV was left out.
2) In the event that there

are

balanced teams(3 mafia, 3 wolves), that there is something

else

going against the Mafia.

The key is balance.

Now, that's quite a problem! How do we figure that out?!

Well woop-de-doo, if we come down to the wire, LyLo with 3 players remaining & only 1 dead Mafia member, Cicero is your man. That'd mean there could only be 1 Mafia, and with only 1 dead, that perk of no BPV would almost have to be legit to form the balance, and Cicero would be the liar trying to fill in that gap.

See, I simply do not see Cicero lying about this as scum if his team had three members. There would be a

huge

risk of a counter-claim, and even if not, a dead BPV would leave him on the chopping block.

The conclusion is that we don't have the margin at this point to be mistaken. If ZoneAce is town lynching him now is most likely a mafia victory, even if this night Kison is disclosed to be the last standing wolf.

Hjallti, no matter what, unless we're dealing with unbalanced teams as far as numbers go, we're going to have to spend 4 days to lynch the remaining scum members. Things are looking fairly grim no matter what. I mean, if we're right about the scum groups consisting of 3 members each, that would mean only 6 townies remain. Spending 4 days lynching would lose us 3(minimum pending xkills) through night kills, even if we lynch correctly each time.

The thing is you're not looking further down the line into the future. We lynch Peers today. Wonderful. But what do we do TOMORROW? We once again have to take the risk of lynching the wrong person. It would be wisest to take that risk NOW instead of later because the sooner we get rid of the werewolf, the sooner the payoff of getting rid of the night kill is received.

Thoughts?

[Kison]

Wouldn't the best way for the wolf to survive be... no, not lurking... but to make himself as useful to the town as possible? After all, the wolf couldn't possibly be the one doing most of the work to find the wolf, could he? He couldn't possibly see that the wolves have been decimated by a Mafia who is helpful to the town... so his best bet is to try and be even more helpful?

Or perhaps I am just Town trying to be helpful since helping the Town is kind of the only way I can win.

Nice try. You fail.

[Kison]

Beginning to wonder if ZA is Mafia.

[Kison]

Kison is the Town Champion.

[Kison]

It's not a role granted to me by the game, I'm afraid, but it's one I think everyone would agree I deserve!

Translation : IT'S NOT A ROLECLAIM NITWITS!!!!

[Kison]

Do I think we should probably just ignore what he's saying? Yes.

[Kison]

Just a few things...

DR, this game rocks as much as you do. I can't rememeber why I signed up, though I think the no crosskill thing had something to do with it, but it wound up being a lot of fun towards the end of my living days. Very similar concept to another game I played elsewhere. I have no complaints whatsoever. If you don't mind my asking, though, what does "lynch will be decided by duel" mean?

I had a feeling Twomz was the Mafia, but he wasn't near as obvious as Zoneace, who constantly pushed for me to be lynched with the worst logical backing I've ever seen, and later relentlessnessly went after Peers when over and over again I tried explaining how bad of an idea it was. I started thinking he was getting extremely frustrated that he was pushing to have his own partner lynched and was being berated for it, hence my later comment where I said I thought he was Mafia, not wolf.

Twomz made the better call of laying off those two routes, but he was one of the people I eyed for pushing to have Peers lynched. The problem was that there was little substance from the other two, so you couldn't be very certain of anything. His choice to kill Cicero on the last day as also the perfect move - on the off chance Cicero was lying, he would have entered the last day as the only player with a previous reputation while leaving no confirmed players alive. If Cicero was telling the truth, he entered the day with 2 other suspects. Good decision, in my opinion.

I never had a good read on the wolves. With them I basically just was looking at the unclaimed list.

Cicero rocked this game hardcore also. I remember coming back thinking, "Who the hell is this guy? He's the only one that makes sense." So he gets the Town Champion award.

I honestly can't believe Town pulled this one off. When I came back from my lurking spree and started trying to figure out what was going on, I thought there was next to no way we could win. We won because :

1) We selectively targeted the Wolves
2) Cicero claimed early enough that the Wolves didn't accidentally kill him(he was not beneficial for them to kill)
3) Peers helped us out
4) We're lucky as all hell

So good game everyone. 3 more ongoing games for me. Maybe I'll see some of you there.

[Kison]

I heard Peers was

really

sent to the "witness protection program."



...Just sayin