Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[Flyinghawk]

Vote:Karen

desperately grabbing at straws with her Whome? vote.

[quote= "Green Day"]
Hawks don't fly![/quote]

we Soar. booyah.

[Flyinghawk]

Not to mention, just because you say your town, it doesn't make it so. I sometimes think thats actually a scum tell. My vote stays on you.

[Flyinghawk]

Okay well said. I agree with you partly there. But before getting rid of her straight away, I think it would be good if we waited a while and investigated other people too. Before we make a quick and potentially stupid decision. And also like I said before, There is bound to be scum from at least one side voting against her, so it would be good to monitor those people.

who would you suggest we investigate, if not her. While, potentially, Karen may not be scum, right now shes scummier than anyone else in the game. So, even with her obnoxiously overzealous defense of herself, and her accusation that the people who are voting for her are scum(illogical), my vote stays on her until someone can make a case that says someone else is scummier than karen.

[Flyinghawk]

Dybeck:

It is utterly ridiculous to say that my statement was "scummier than anything Karen has said all game" when I was defending my vote of her because I voted for her before the bandwagon started. Next you say theres a baseless bandwagon on Karen, which is even more ridiculous because theres a good 3 pages of people saying nothing but reasons to vote karen.

FOS: Dybeck

Also, Cephrir is the person who I would say is the second scummiest person right now. If someone can state a good reason for a Cephrir vote over a Karen, I'd consider a change.

[Flyinghawk]

Can somebody please summarize the case for Karen in one post for me?

With pleasure.


It all started out with an unfortunate typo by Whome

vote curiouskarmadog

it's right in his name that he's a wolf!

Karen voted for WhoMe? and gave this reasoning:

vote WhoMe

Not bolding votes - heinous crime.

Vote: whome?

Yes, you!

I wish i had a pund for eveytime someone used that in random voting. Hell I wish I had a pound for everytime YOU used that in random voting

vote WhoMe

1) scummy to give the first random vote;
2) thinks he was "random" voted (not paying attention to posts);
3) "not bolding votes - heinous crime."

Someone responded saying that day 1 votes generally are random, and ChocolateAttacks vote was in this case no different.

She then responded back, saying Whome was "nervous" when making the first random vote, which was why he didn't bold it, which was a scumtell. She also mistakenly thought that the vote on Whome wasn't random(though it was) and so when Whome stated that it was random, she stated that Whome was not reading posts, which was another scumtell. She implied that this was enough to prove Who me was scum.

She's serious!?

I am a serious

"townsperson"

(just look at my rank by my avatar).

The point I was raising for everyone to see, is that theopor_COD's vote was NOT random (as some people are claiming). He did say his vote "wasn't serious," but maybe he caught something?

Something along the lines of, "after just receiving his role as scum, WhoMe?'s fingers were shaking so bad as he was attempting to post his first vote that he totally forgot to bold."

now, it can be noted that i've only posted half a dozen or so times, but how many times did I forget to bold a vote, unvote, fos, or anything else?

that's right, zero.

When I read what she wrote, I found her reasoning as well as her conclusions very shaky and pretty scummy, so I voted for her. Then ChocolateAttack voted for her.
Without any reason given, right after CA voted for Karen, she responded with a FOS on him. This, in my mind, is a major scumtell. Apparently others thought so, because others started to vote for her as well, bringing her vote count up to around 4 or 5.

At this point, Karen's only real defense against the people voting for her is "You haven't read the posts right, look at my post #49"(quoted above)

Until then, all these votes on karen seemed well thought out, and the lynch seemed to be going on fairly well, until:

Hi! Sorry I have been absent last few days.

Unvote, Vote: Karen

This, I feel, stopped the voting on Karen from being well thought out, easily explainable votes, to beginning to look like a Bandwagon, and we all know who quickly Bandwagon tells can stop a lynch from happening.

However, Karen did one more thing to be scummy, she voted for herself:

unvote. vote: Karen.

i give up, townspeople can't win this one. it's too stacked against us.

At this point, a couple more people vote for Karen, but the people voting for Karen are labeled a "bandwagon"

And around this time a couple people voted Whome for being on this bandwagon of Karen. Seeing this opportunity, Karen quickly unvoted herself and made this gem of a post:

unvote: Karen.

Vote: WhoMe?

obviously Karen is a townie, and i think her play helps us, especially post #102. my vote is on WhoMe? due to prior logic raised by Karen, WhoMe?'s bandwagoning of karen (he addmitted in post #92), and also in post #92 he wants the first day to be over sooner rather than later, ostensibly to prevent little gems of wisdom (e.g. post #102) from surfacing, that will surely strike down his scum faction.

A lot more posts happen, but the one's I quoted are pretty much all really scummy on Karen's behalf. Throughout the game though, Karen has been adamentely stating that she is a Townie, which I feel is a scumtell as well. I think she is a perfect lynch candidate, but with the bandwagon problem slowing it down yet again. She's acted scummy from the getgo and her defense has been nothing but shaky or incorrect or unbelievable.

[Flyinghawk]

I was hoping that by encouraging people to attempt to summarize the case for Karen, the town might wake up and realise what a nonsense the whole thing was.

It appears that nobody did, so I had to suggest outright that we should be looking elsewhere.

Karen has made it very plain that she considers herself a well versed, not-new player. If this is the case, than we can't excuse all of her blunders to 'newbie' mistakes. She has been acting scummy all game, and since you've been defending her I see some mafia protecting mafia vibes coming from you.

Fos:Dybeck

the votes on Karen are not "a nonsense' as you so eloquently put it, so be careful not to over defend her.

[Flyinghawk]

Who'll join me on a Cephrir bandwagon?

I think that all those not on the Karen bandwagon will understand why.

unvote, vote: Cephrir

Dybeck, you've been defending Karen like crazy, but your only real defense has been "all you reasons to lynch karen are bad!" Obviously several people feel that Karen is scummy, and so for you to continue to unwaveringly defend her makes you look bad as well.

FOS: Dybeck

[Flyinghawk]

Fos: Flyinghawk and thinktank

for taking lead right after Cephrir's suspiscion of Dybeck. Seriously it seems like your eager to push against Dybeck.

Please refer to my FOS of dybeck 3 posts from the bottom of page 7. I just FOS'd him again for good measure.

[Flyinghawk]

Green Day's vote of Twomz is pretty OMGUSy. There were plenty of people, myself included, voting and pushing for Karen just as hard as Twomz was.

I don't think voting for Karen yesterday was scummy. If someone did it in a hoppy or oppurtunistic way, maybe. But I'd expect plenty of town were on Karen as well.

IF YOU ARE IN A DUALISTIC ROLE, DO NOT SAY WHICH SIDE YOU AFFECT.

/agree. +1 townie point for Twomz.

I can't really decide which of my three top suspects to put my vote on. I think I'm going to go for Sir "I Know For A Fact That Karen Is Town" first.

Vote curiouskarmadog
FoS dybeck, Green Day

For some reason this really hits me as a scum trying to act like a town. Dummy, CKD was right, karen was a town.

vote: Cephrir

[Flyinghawk]

what happened to my reply? And I think if we took a poll, your play would be voted inexperienced at best.

I went back and reread your posts and decided you didnt desreve a reply cause you didn't raise any valid points, much like yesterday.


oh and Kison, way to vote me for, for explaining SOMEONE ELSES THEORY to greenday

maybe if you actually read the thread and actually participated instead of well not and then making votes based on your lack of information you'd not look scummy, but alas, thats what you've done so

HUGE FOS on kison

the OMGUS FOS here seems scummy to me. Kison had a good analysis of you, which shouldn't be disgregared because he hasn't been that active.

FOS: Zoneface

However, the more and more iread this game, the more I like my vote for Cephrir. The tone in his posts seem to be evasive at best, and it almost sounds like he's trying to dig himself out of a hole.

[Flyinghawk]

Neither of the top lynch candidates (greenday or Cephrir) have made any posts in recent pages.

Well, i take that back , Cephrir posted saying he was GOING to post, but then never posted.

Until we get more information (aka responses) from these two, i would implore that no one votes these two, because a mislynch would be horrible right now. If the vote count gets too high on cephrir, i'll unvote him. But for now, the vote sticks.

[Flyinghawk]

I couldn't pick a top 3 scummiest people right now. For awhile, cephrir seemed scummy, althought lately nothing of note has been said by him for me to continue to think this way. Dybeck, ive noticed, tends to attack whoever has just recently spoken, and has a really easy to irrritate scumdar. Greenday seems to be really bad at defending himself, but to me, he gives off a newb-town vibe more than a mafia.
Zoneface. Since page 9, when he joined, has somehow always been in the largest bandwagon,(karen yesterday, Greenday today) and has been attacking the recipient of the bandwagon actively, which makes me seem like he's someone trying look good by being active a lot, while also attacking in a way that a bunch of people will agree with what he says. He still looks pretty scummy to me though, and it looks like a couple others agree.

FOS:Zoneface

and

unvote

Cephrir is not acting scummy enough to warrant a vote.

[Flyinghawk]

Is there anyone who feels lynching Green Day would be a bad idea?

In general, no, but if we're wrong about him, then yes.

If we get a few more people to give their input (who haven't input much lately), i'll gladly put my vote back on him.

This is the most useless post ever. You say, you think voting him is a good idea UNLESS he's not scum.

Well no shit.

Ugh, the more and more you post Zoneface, the more and more scummy you look to me.

[Flyinghawk]

I unvoted, Rikimaru.

MOD NOTE:

fixed again. in my defense i will say that i'm still under effect of...nevermind. ..

[Flyinghawk]

Im sorry , Im not going to have time to post anything of substance in here tonight .. erm.. morning. Ill try to be on here tomarrow if im not able to by tomarrow night mod please replace me. im sorry again , i thought i would have more time than i did.

oh man, and I was actually pretty excited for a GD's replacement explanation to. I hope you still can thorn, i'll be very interested to read it.

[Flyinghawk]

Dybeck, regarldes of whether more discussion is necessery, should we still replace GD?



I'd like to hear more from cephrir, too.

[Flyinghawk]

I hate third-person speak, and I agree with Zoneface.

[Flyinghawk]

Could either Dybeck, CKD, Killerbob, or Twomz please give a detailed reason as to why voting Cephrir is better than voting the Absentee Thorn?

At this point, voting Thorn looks like the easy way out(he's defenless due to not posting) and so I'd like to take a look at Cephrir again. I remember seeing some scummy things to his gameplay earlier on, But lately I haven't been able to pick up the same vibe.

[Flyinghawk]

If I don't survive the night, lynch ZONEACE for that blatant opportunism.

Cephrir and Zoneace.

Yeah? Cephrir and Zoneace. Seriously.

Conviently two people I've thought were scummy at some part during the game.




Not a fantastic day, by any means.

[Flyinghawk]

Err, I'd agree with Kanagas theory that the scum are probably 3 and 3, although the anti-werewolf roles do bring the equality of that into question. I unconfident that there is a specifically anti-scum role, but it wouldn't be all that surprising.

However, the fact that the two scum groups can't NK each other is the fact that I think will lead to the theory that the scum don't have power roles. Just a thought, but no-cross-kill and power roles could possibly lead to overpowered scum.

[Flyinghawk]

never said it was just his fault...and he knows that for he quoted me when I said, that people on the Karen lynch were scum or simple minded (easily lead)..

right now, he is trying to bide some sympathy by saying that I said it was just his fault..never have I said that..all he said was that he didnt lynch her..which is a lie

Day 2 he thought greenday/thorn was scum, but wants the town to believe he didnt care if we lynched him or not...which is a lie.

he says I am blatantly lying, when I prove him wrong, he ignores it...he continues lying....I think this town NEEDS to listen to me for once..

if I am wrong come after me tomorrow, but I doubt I will live through the night.

Mightt we further add that if we were to lynch CKD for being wrong, to follow up with a dybeck lynch, as he has basically puppy-dog followed along with everything CKD has said.

[Flyinghawk]

ChocolateAttack. If he's voting based upon a gut feeling, why should he give any other reason?

It's a perfectly valid reason to vote someone.

And it's not like Zoneace isn't scum. I'm rather starting to believe he's scum with you, actually. And that's gut too.

I don't like this reason. saying gut feeling is 'perfectly valid' is wrong. THis gut feeling is entirely subjective and can come subconcsiously from more of difference of opinions rather than giving off a scum tell. Furthermore, this gut feeling must come from somewhere, and at least stating where the feeling came from gives you a little defense if someone directly questions your actions.

[Flyinghawk]

Alright, I've reread Cephrir's and CKD's arguments over many times now, and the only possible course of action for this day is to vote cephrir. While this is the most logical vote for the day, i'm not sure i'm very happy with it. CKD's volunteering to get lynched tommorow if Cephrir is not scum (and he has on several occasions) is bad gameplay. I've never liked it when people do this. So, i'm going to vote cephrir now, and if cephrir turns out to be town, my vote will 100% be on CKD tommorow. Which is frustrating.

Vote:Cephrir

[Flyinghawk]

CKD, you drew the complete wrong conclusions from my post. I didn't want to vote Cephrir because i didn't think he was scum, but because the way it was forced based on the same type of logic that has made us lynch 2 other townies on day 1 and 2, that made me not like this. "learn from your mistakes" and "learn history or you are doomed to repeat it" come to mind when i think about how day 3 went. which was, more or less, the same exact way as day 1 and 2. We became(and i am a part of this, defintely) enthralled with the idea that Cephrir was scum, we couldn't see any other way around it.
On the flipside, cephrir was actually playing poorly, but perhaps not scummy. I suppose voting him was not a good choice on my part, but I did, and you can't say i'm the reason that cephrir got lynched. part of the reason perhaps, but much more blaim should be put on CKD.

and, i'll stand by my previous statements:

Vote: CuriousKarmaDog

[Flyinghawk]

Now, just to wait for CKD's claim, which is once again going to leave us nowhere in terms of scum hunting.


One thing Cicero said last page is slightly odd to me. Not enough to warrent a Vote or FOS, but sort of off. He said "how do you scumhunt scumhunting scum?" But this is what you do in every mafia game, all good scum try to look as though they are scumhunting so as to divert attention from them.

I dunno, just sort of odd, and we don't have much to work off of besides this right now, except perhaps Kanaga's absence and CKDs claim..

sigh.

[Flyinghawk]

Soo, CKD seemed to have gotten off the hook again, hmm.

Unvote

Does it seem coincidential to anyone that Ooba(or the player who ooba took over) voted for the other sorceror night 2? Perhaps the two sorcerors new each other at the start of the game like the mafia does? Do town power roles generally know their partners? My guess is, that since they are both sorcerors that it might be possible that Ooba and CKD have the other sorceror named in their role info. If this is true, then the fact that Ooba protected CKD seems to validate CKD's claim in my mind(sorceror protecting the 1 KNOWN town player, the other sorceror, is a pretty easy way to insure that at least theres a chance a townie won't die that night)

[Flyinghawk]

SO both Tar and Peers have claimed, and the question is who to vote for today. Peers claimed first, which originally led me to believe he would be the better vote. Tar has been acting more scummy, though, and if we lynch Tar and he comes out wolf, that would give me more faith in CKD and Ooba being wolfs as well.

Vote:tar

and depending on how the night goes, tommorows vote should be either Peers or CKD.

[Flyinghawk]

mmrhhmm.

all I have to say about previous night scene is


Thats what she said.


good day.

-little red flyinghawk.