Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[Kanaga]

Hi guys, just finished the thread. Currently I think Green Day looks a bit scummy, but I don't like Cephrir's comments here:

Reason #1:

Firstly, you seem to have excluded all possibility that Karen is scum

Finally, someone gets it.

FoS: CKD

. All of your arguments are based on the assumption that Karen is a bad town player. There is no reason she can't be a bad scum player. There is also no reason why scum would NK her. Everything I wanted to say in this post has already been said by Twomz, Zoneace and Sonicpulsar. But I feel the need to say this anyway:

KAREN, CLAIM PLEASE.

I think you were too adamantly against the Karen wagon, possibly because you are scum and you know she's not scum with you, and therefore is likely town, so you can say, "Oh, I was right!" the way you've been doing.

Reason #2: Illogical arguments both yesterday and today. This is mainly from when you argued with ZONEACE. The first reason is mostly why I'm voting you, but the second doesn't help.

it is easy to say someone has illogical arguements..please quote them...

If CKD was scum and knew Karen wasn't scum with him, a lynch on Karen would be a win-win situation for him. I don't think he would try to defend that lynch just so he could make a point later.

I'm not sure who to vote for right now. It looks like the mafia and werewolves are playing it safe with their kills, so that doesn't point to anyone either. Once we see more posts from Green Day and Cephrir, I think things will become clearer.

[Kanaga]

I'm not sure at this stage, but should we push for a roleclaim from one of the two?? I don't have much experience though, so it might be a bad idea, but maybe it could help us.

[Kanaga]

I don't think we can wait for information forever. Green Day and Cephrir need to post soon, and if they don't, we will have to do something (push for roleclaim?). I'm not trying to push for the end of the day, but we DO need to move the game forward.

[Kanaga]

Please attach reasoning to your votes guys. I'm not sure why Cephrir is saying I'm scummy now, because he hasn't responded to me or commented on me besides putting me on his list. List:

Green Day: His behavior is very erratic as mentioned before (especially his OMGUS vote). However, I'm getting a bit of new player now- and since he's at -2 (I think) I'm not going to vote for him.

Cephrir: He seems pretty scummy to me too, I'm not sure right now.

Besides these two, I agree that Tarhalindur needs a

prod

. Thinktank is a bit inactive, too, unless i'm missing a post he made.

[Kanaga]

Thinktank- summarizing things everyone else has said isn't a real content vote.

Cephrir- at least he tried to explain his list, even if it wasn't a good explanation.

David does seem a bit scummy too. So far we haven't seen very much content out of him.

[Kanaga]

We can't let go of Green Day's scumminess just because he isn't moving us to vote or unvote. I don't like the way he is acting- the day 1 flip-flopping was bad, but this day he seems even scummier by not answering. I'm not saying I want to rush the day, but we can't wait for the next uninformative post forever.

[Kanaga]

Vote: Green Day

I'm voting for him now because he has posted not much of value in day 2, and he refuses to defend himself. He asks why people are voting for him, and when they answer, he stops posting completely! If he doesn't give us a post soon, or if that post has no content, then I think we need to lynch him.

[Kanaga]

I don't like Thinktank's posts at all. He pops in too rarely and repeats other's points. Here's something he posted:

the absence of evidence isnt the evidence of absence

The absence of evidence may not be evidence of absence, but simply posting a lot doesn't mean you are contributing to the game. And he isn't posting a lot, by the way. If he would post, that would tell us whether to lynch him or not, but he won't. That saying is useless in a game based around using evidence and staying active. I don't like this too:

I agree with CKD that at this point Cephrir seems the most scummy and perhaps a vote on him would reveal more aspects of the game.

If you want a vote on Cephrir, why wouldn't you vote him? You aren't voting! This is the same as the DAS "unvote green day please", except Thinktank has NO previous statements to back him up a bit.

So lets see: he gives us a saying that isn't applicable, he agrees with CKD, he says that there isn't enough swing to lynch Green Day (make some, and Cephrir has less swing right now), and posts a sentence of reiterated logic. VERY scummy post, which is why I

Huge FOS: Thinktank

[Kanaga]

To keep the game going- Cephrir, could you explain your case against Dybeck?

[Kanaga]

Yeah, I reread it today, and it had a strong base. She told Flyinghawk that the town would lynch him for voting her, she gave a FOS on CA without reasoning, she came up with stupid arguements (fingers shaking?), and she didn't defend herself well. As an example- she voted herself and said it was stacked against the town. ON DAY 1, WITH NO NIGHT, when we knew nothing. She continued to attract attention and she got lynched. The wagon made a lot of sense.

[Kanaga]

I'm new, so maybe i'm simple minded, but i'm finding it hard to find the hidden meaning in "WhoMe?'s fingers were shaking because he is SCUM!!!111oneone"

[Kanaga]

Could you guys explain why the Karen bandwagon only makes sense to simple minded people and mafia rather then quoting it?

[Kanaga]

Kan

a

ga thinks that getting the game moving is a good idea, especially considering we have a what, week? deadline now and everyone is starting to get inactive.

[Kanaga]

Flyinghawk: Notice the underlined bolded letter? Should I have capitalised it for you? You see, I have the same problem as Zone

NO F

ace.

Right now, I think we should wait for another Thorn post and for Cephrir Dybeck analysis. Then, we can choose a bandwagon or move to a new suspect.

[Kanaga]

It isn't clear Thorn will speak soon. I'm not too suspicious of Cehprir anymore. I wish we could get a Thorn replacement but as Dead Rikimaru said that would be unfair to the person who replaced him.

[Kanaga]

I agree with Cephrir and Dybeck. Don't we want to force more information out of the suspects, by leaning our votes towards one, rather then balancing the votes out. When we balance the votes we cause less pressure on our suspects.

[Kanaga]

I don't like Cephrir and Zoneace being responsible for the lynch, but I can see why they did it. It had been more then a month and the game was slowing down. Right now we need to be grateful that we don't have two more town dead, but realise that because they aren't dead, most likely there are a large amount of mafia. I'm guessing 6 mafia, 3 on each side, with no abilites besides nightkill. That is close to 25% and I can't see mafia having special abilities considering town must lynch all the mafia. It could also be 2-3. Either way, thats a large % of the town. But that ISN'T most of the town, like Dybeck said.

Another thing I didn't like around Dybeck's posts: Saying that we should stop lynching town, then trying to quicklynch two players is dumb.

[Kanaga]

Dybeck: I only said quicklynch since you made it sound like that was what you wanted.

Zoneace: The person who hammers is probably worth being looked at, especially when we are a bit low on options.

Tar: I think that two 3-man groups OR a two man group and a three man group is likely because 2-3 is 25% (a typical scum ratio), and 3-3 gives the scum equal sides. Who knows, it could be something like werewolves have 3 and there are anti-werewolf roles, and then the mafia has 2 and there are no specifically anti-mafia roles. I'm not sure. But 4-4, as Dybeck suggested, didn't seem realistic to me.

[Kanaga]

I suppose if it was a 2-3 or something, the 2 might have a mafia cop. But 2 kills per night is a lot of scum action. I just think it is unlikely with the small mafia groups.

[Kanaga]

I don't want to WIFOM, but why would I do that? My whole point in that post had NOTHING to do with the scum power roles, it was about dybecks "half scum" statement.
If the mafia had cops, town would be quite underpowered. Scum could kill a cop, know what townies to defend, know which scum to lynch, etc. Town is underpowered enough without extra scum roles. I don't think the "he guesses that mafia don't have power roles, THEREFORE HE IS MAFIA" is needed right now. What we need to do is look back at peoples posts and make connections. As an example: you were on both townie wagons, as noted before.

[Kanaga]

I'm sorry for being inactive for a bit. Right now it's just Cephrir, Dybeck, and CKD arguing and I guess I have to choose a side so

Vote:Cephrir

. I hate his "UR DUMB" attitude. The "vote, not lynch" arguement is pretty stupid too and I don't like it.

Cephrir and Thinktanks case against Twomz doesn't make much sense, considering CKD wrote a bunch of big posts showing the case against Cephrir. All the reasons had already been stated.

[Kanaga]

Tar:

Waffles between Green Day and Cephrir early on D2 (wishy-washy)

Wasn't sure who was scummier, I had just joined the game.

brings up roleclaims without really pushing for it (reeks of scum testing the waters)

Newbie testing the waters, actually.

posts information about a handful of players without posting analysis (VERY scummy, it's been a reliable scumtell for me in current games),

I'm not sure where I did this. I don't think I did this too much, either. Plus I don't really see how this is "VERY" scummy.

votes Green Day using weak reasoning (failure to defend oneself is NOT a scumtell)*

I don't know all the scumtells. However it looked to me like he was trying to wait his bandwagon out. I was voting him a lot based on reasons already stated. I would like to note that you voted Thorn with the explanation "In the interests of getting this game moving again". Hypocritical, much? At least I posted SOME reasoning. I'm not sure if you wanted to make a note about your statement with that *, I'd like to hear some reasoning about it.

calls out thinktank on a scummy post yet only FoS'es thinktank (possible Friend of Scum tell, needs explanation)

I thought the Green Day/Thorn wagon was better at the time. I didn't really "only" FoS him, I meant it and I said it was a huge FoS, not a small one.

tries to have it both ways re: Cephrir and Zoneace (scummy - it reeks of scum not wanting to give an opinion, and I've seen scum use this tactic in other games)

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying I both said they were scummy and that they were unscummy? I did give an opinion on them.

"Right now we need to be grateful that we don't have two more town dead" ("good night for us" comments are a known scumtell),

I thought it was a good thing that town doesn't have another person dead. Should I have wished we had 2 deaths that night? I don't like your logic with "EVERYONE knowns that this is a OBVIOUS scumtell". It makes me feel like you are trying to lead the town.

makes a comment about the setup in a matter that suggested inside information to me,

Ugh, just be quiet about the inside information thing. This seems to happen at least every second game, and it hasn't seemed to be a scumtell to me. I just made a comment speculating something. I was making a GUESS. An estimate.

hrows dirt at dybeck without following up on it (again, a well-known scumtell)

More "guys everyone knowns that this=scummy". I was still looking at who to vote for. I don't follow up every single suspicion with a vote, thats not how I play. I'm usually quite unsure at the start of game days, making me look indecisive- which I am, until I find a person to vote for and stick to them.

gives good reasoning for one part of his setup comment and weak reasoning for the other (the latter is what tipped me off about Kanaga in the first place)

I addressed most of this up above. I think playing scum would be far too easy if there was something like a cop in the mafia. Maybe a roleblocker or something, but 2 scum actions is a decent amount in a game of this size.

defends his setup comment with mediocre reasoning, OMGUS's me without following up on it (yet AGAIN - absolutely REEKS of scum trying not to step on toes)

As I said earlier, I see a lot of little scum indicators so I point them out. Since I have many of these I see a day I can't really follow them all up. But if you keep acting scummy I will follow up on them. As you said earlier, part of my reasoning was good, and I addressed the rest above.

joins the Cephrir wagon with bad reasoning.

I felt I had to choose a side. Also, a LOT of the reasoning I was voting for had been stated by CKD.

Overall, I think that just because you say something is a scum tell doesn't mean it is. And my play style is to just point out stuff at the start of the day. It looks to me like you are trying to argue against the Cephrir wagon indirectly, which is scummy.

[Kanaga]

I don't think that if Cephrir is town, we MUST lynch CKD. CKD does have a good case against Cephrir, just as we had good cases against Karen and Thorn/Green Day.

I also don't think setting up lynchs is a scummy thing to do, because if we DO lynch him we will know not to lynch his targets.

[Kanaga]

Vote: CKD

.

I, too, want to see his claim.

[Kanaga]

Kan

A

ga thinks that if someone says they should be lynched if something happens, and it does, that people should

at the very least

be allowed to push for a claim without being OMGUS'd.

[Kanaga]

Sorry guys, been really busy. I'll catch up and post in the morning.

[Kanaga]

Ok, nevermind, I looked a bit and now I must post.

Unvote:CKD

.

Vote: Tar

.

After looking through it, Tar seems like the best choice. I'm not sure what else to say, at this point the game is more about opinions then suspicions.

[Kanaga]

Vote: davidangelsummers

.

Testing Twomz sounds good to me. His logic, to me, doesn't seem to be completely in favor of the town. I'm guessing most of our power roles are revealed now, except maybe a doc and a cop, so we probably won't lose one.

[Kanaga]

I still think my vote on DAS is the right one. I agree with WhoMe?'s logic.

[Kanaga]

We need to look at how other players interacted with Tarhalindur and David Angel Summers

Looking through their posts, neither seemed to warm up to anyone. I think I might look at some of thinktank's posts soon.