/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2200 (ISO) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:55 pm

Overall town play was very good this game. The BAB lynch was unfortunate because we didn't really get much good info from it, but the rest of the game was spectacular. I'm a little bit annoyed at getting lynched for the first time ever as town (in forum mafia), but I do think my lynch ended up being good for the town. So all's well that ends well.

I need to read the quicktopics, I want to know if scum were planning a WIFOM strategy of being too obvious to be actual buddies from the very beginning or if it just happened that way.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2201 (ISO) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:13 pm

"Xylthixlm - good gut and decent reasoner, not a very active poster and he will only post when its necessary."

Bwuh?

"A good idea for this game is that Elvis, Xyl, inhim and some others use voting patterns information like law to find scum."

Bwuh...

"I get a power role vibe from Xyl. I dont remember him being so liberal with his votes so that means he is prob trying to hide something."

Bwuh!

"Consider also that some people Xyl for example considers that softclaims are a scummy maneuver and youll probably have to fullclaim tomorrow if we go with this plan."

Bwuh.

"this isn't the sort of softclaim that xyl will try to force a fullclaim from, because i'm not doing it to save my own ass, just trying to steer attemtion away from someone else."

Bwuh.

"i don't think anyone would ever consider the fact that our entire scumteam might have been on that xyl lynch, and lets keep it that way."

Bwuh.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #2202 (ISO) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:49 pm

imma lynch xyl every game i see him from now on

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2203 (ISO) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:52 pm

PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:imma lynch xyl every game i see him from now on

Bwuh?!

Ojanen · Post Post #2204 (ISO) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:37 pm

YEESH!
I would have been heartbroken if Baltar had survived.
This was my favorite game yet, although I was so pissed when Xyl was getting lynched that I actually wanted to physically violate my laptop.
Great job, guys.

iamausername · Post Post #2205 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:29 am

iamausername wrote:
Unvote, Vote: roflcopter

Other lynches I'd support right now; zu_faul, VP Baltar and Yosarian2.

Hell yes.

I blame Mini 775 for my ridiculous "what if i was blocked N1" paranoia. That was really very stupid though.

This may just be the most fun game of mafia I have yet been involved in, I deem the /in-vitational experiment a huge success.

elvis_knits · Post Post #2206 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:51 am

It was pretty gutsy for the scum to protect and confirm each other like they did. I've always wanted to do that but been too chicken. I think it could have worked if they had bussed someone. Could have given them some town cred and confused everything a bit more.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2207 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:10 am

elvis_knits wrote:It was pretty gutsy for the scum to protect and confirm each other like they did. I've always wanted to do that but been too chicken. I think it could have worked if they had bussed someone. Could have given them some town cred and confused everything a bit more.

looking at how yos-rofl-zu went down should cure you of that. Role confirming a buddy mostly just gets you lynched instead, even if you aren't very scummy.

(It can work, but you only if you use an elaborate claim that people think you couldn't be making up.)

VP Baltar · Post Post #2208 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:13 am

well, I think the lovers role essentially required buddying from the scum team. I think it got a little bit overboard when tajo got involved, but the scum team did have significant interest in stopping their lynches as long as possible.

VP Baltar · Post Post #2209 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:17 am

charter wrote:As far as your decision to bus, Balter, I'm not sure hammering Pooky would have helped you guys, as you said. All my scenarios for if Pooky was scum (if anyone read them) would have been even more impossible if Pooky was actually town. We would have had no choice but to assume tajo was scum gambiting, and the game would pan out pretty much the same way. If you had hammered Pooky, we very well might have lynched you over Thesp in LYLO.

Yeah, that's exactly why I did it even though I knew it was going against the team's plan. It would have given us pretty much 0% chance of winning even though we had a few people playing into our hands.

I felt that taking the bus (which I should have just done really hard and not faltered) gave us the best chance of winning, and if Pooky had actually rolled over as he had been doing all game I think I very much would have won. I jumped up and down with excitement when his response to my case was "lol, I'm town". I thought I had it in the bag there.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2210 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:30 am

VP Baltar wrote:well, I think the lovers role essentially required buddying from the scum team. I think it got a little bit overboard when tajo got involved, but the scum team did have significant interest in stopping their lynches as long as possible.

Having yos and rofl support each other was fine, although the way rofl went about it was horrible. But having another scum come in to save them was just throwing good after bad.

elvis_knits · Post Post #2211 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:14 am

I think it could have worked with some minor alterations. It seems like some of it was spur of the moment though, and if they had planned more it could have worked. It would have been cool. It gives me a lot of ideas for how to play scum, and I usually hate being scum. I think I have to go sign up for a game now and cross my fingers...

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2212 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

elvis_knits wrote:I think it could have worked with some minor alterations. It seems like some of it was spur of the moment though, and if they had planned more it could have worked. It would have been cool. It gives me a lot of ideas for how to play scum, and I usually hate being scum. I think I have to go sign up for a game now and cross my fingers...

It's certainly possible to do some beautiful buddy-confirming gambits as scum. The trick is that your claim has to explain some

other

piece of information that the town has, in addition to confirming your buddy. Then that other piece of information (which comes from an actual townie) will seem to "confirm" both of you. This is difficult to set up but spectacular when it works.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #2213 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:12 pm

I quite liked the total turnaround on Yos2 after N1. If it was much more subtle that would have worked. Ie, distance your buddy D1, then say they seem town D2 and if you ever have to claim you can claim an investigation.

Also it highlights the need to press the wink wink nod nod stuff - mainly because there's very few times when a town player can legitimately use that. If they aren't a role, then being that firm that another player is town without discussion isn't appropriate - it should be loud and above board defence. If they are a role, then that level of softclaiming only serves to give the town limited information with all of the same drawbacks as a full claim (ie, target on your back.)

SerialClergyman · Post Post #2214 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:20 pm

I think tajo had it tough. He knew a claim could potentially save two members, but rofl had already brough two people along with him, and he needed another night's confirmed so had to add charter, which meant his claim was dragging 5 people as innocent.

Also - he had no reason to make it until it looked like rofl would be lynched.

Although it's impossible to suggest he do this in hindsight, unless he wanted an epic gambit, he could have done his fakeclaim

as soon as iam countered

. Then he claims hider. We have 5 confirmed innocents and if the vig claims, that makes six. So then you get iam lynched, kill the vig at night and you're in lylo with a plausible if unlikely scenario (iam was roleblocked and the scum killed one of the confirmed town, the vig, last night). Plus you have a 5-man voting block with 11 people in the game, so as soon as a townie agrees with you, you win.

It'd be much less likely to fall apart because anyone arguing for a tajo lynch couldn't use the 'even if I'm wrong it's ok' argument because you're in lylo.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2215 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:34 pm

SerialClergyman wrote:Also it highlights the need to press the wink wink nod nod stuff - mainly because there's very few times when a town player can legitimately use that. If they aren't a role, then being that firm that another player is town without discussion isn't appropriate - it should be loud and above board defence. If they are a role, then that level of softclaiming only serves to give the town limited information with all of the same drawbacks as a full claim (ie, target on your back.)

I'm not sure why this opinion is not yet universal on the site. The times when the best play for a town power role is to softclaim rather than either hardclaim or just keep quiet are so rare, and the possibilities for scum using softclaims to manipulate the town are so large, that softclaims should be entirely forbidden by the town. Yet somehow, there are still enough players who don't see it that way that the scum in this game (even Yos) thought they could get away with rofl's softclaim.

zu_Faul · Post Post #2216 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:53 pm

SerialClergyman wrote:Also - I did lol at Zu's death.

Hey, that quicklynch did cost all of you a funny post.

Xyl wrote:looking at how yos-rofl-zu went down should cure you of that. Role confirming a buddy mostly just gets you lynched instead, even if you aren't very scummy.

I was not involved in this.

charter wrote:I don't think Zu faul put it in to trick us or play mind games either, I haven't seen anything in his play to suggest that, while there is quite a bit to suggest that it is a slip, such as Thesp is a good citizen and whatnot.

Explain this to me. How was that a slip?

After all, it worked pretty well in tying thesp to me.

I want a rematch :/

Thesp · Post Post #2217 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:15 am

I'm glad to see that I was right about VP Baltar. I'm even more glad that the town made the right choice at the end and won.

Sorry I was wrong about populartajo and Pooky on that critical day, and glad it didn't cost us the game.

Good game, all. I would be more than happy to play with everyone again.

charter · Post Post #2218 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:45 am

Zu faul wrote:Explain this to me. How was that a slip?

This was in reference to your 'scum would want to be on Balter's wagon regardless of his alignment'. It basically gives you a reason to vote the people voting Balter, regardless of how he flipped. I dunno, Elvis explained it pretty well day seven.

VP Baltar · Post Post #2219 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:56 am

Yeah, that was actually something I was having trouble arguing against.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2220 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:22 am

zu_Faul wrote:
Xyl wrote:looking at how yos-rofl-zu went down should cure you of that. Role confirming a buddy mostly just gets you lynched instead, even if you aren't very scummy.
I was not involved in this.

Er. I meant populartajo. I don't know how I got you two confused.

Herodotus · Post Post #2221 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:17 am

Kmd4390 wrote:Hero, when was I a jester?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11092
Jester townie. I mostly remember that game for the claims.

Being a daytalking lover mason is pretty awesome, btw.

Herodotus · Post Post #2222 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:24 am

Well done, town.

Also, VP was pretty convincing. It was only near the end of the game, after a lot of the other people were eliminated, that I started suspecting him.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #2223 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:43 am

Herodotus wrote:Well done, town.

Also, VP was pretty convincing. It was only near the end of the game, after a lot of the other people were eliminated, that I started suspecting him.

Tip: Look for evidence he's town rather than evidence he's scum. If it's not there, lynch him.

Same applies to Yosarian2.

Yosarian2 · Post Post #2224 (ISO) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:37 pm

VP Baltar wrote:I'm still not quite sold that me hammering Pooky would have given us any more chances of winning. Perhaps, and I'm sure the rest of the scum team feels that way since they all seemed pissed about it afterward, but I really think it would have looked obv. scum team and led straight back to the same lylo situation with us losing. Oh well.

Eh...the thing is, town couldn't lynch scum that day without help from scum. The next day, with 2 less town, it would have been much harder for them. Especally as I think we could have gotten at least one townie to vote for Iamusername, we could have pulled it off. You could easily have voted Pooky and sounded reasonable about it; without that, we really had very little chance, since you then had to survive a huge number of lynches basically on your own. I would have gone for it.

Anyway, you did play well after that; you did quite well in getting this far.

Ah, well. That was a pretty crazy gambit anyway, hehe; I've never seen scum claim to backup a fake scum claim to backup another scum before, lol. Would have been awesome if it'd worked.

Anyway, good game, everyone.