Mafia 106 - Killers Mafia II - Over Already?


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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:06 am

Post by Rhinox »

BloodCovenent wrote:
Rhinox wrote:
Rhinox wrote:BloodCov: why fishy?
I was asking why you protected fishy last night...
I didn't have a read on him in game. That's usually how I base my night actions.
OK, I can buy that assuming you were playing as a cop.

Here's the post I was working on...

I don't agree with a quicklynch on anyone. I've seen weirder things happen with crosskills that hide anti-town roles that I'm not quite ready to call this one a gg. Also, we can't completely rule out other odd mechanics, such as 2 scum teams with 1 team having odd night kills and the other team having even night kills.

It highly annoys me that BloodCov or I wasn't nked by scum last night. If Bloodcov is who he says he is, and there is only 1 scum team, I can't see the scum taking the risk that he could clear another town player. We've seen 2 goons die - assuming 1 mafia team of 3, with all these powerful town PR's, its highly likely there is a mafia RB, and its highly likely that since BloodCov wasn't killed, he was more than likely RBed. For this reason, fishy is IMO still in the group of players that can be scum. {Bogre, kyle99, tubby216, and fishy}

Since BloodCov claimed to clear another player last night, the only situation I worry about him being scum is if there is a second scum team...

That being said, the evidence is not there to point towards a second scum group or an sk. I don't want a massclaim today because I feel confident I know who is most likely scum right now. I am gonna want a claim from bogre today. Consider this my official request.
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:24 am

Post by BloodCovenent »

Rhino, i'll ask the mod if players in this game receive notices of Roleblocks. otherwise, that is a good theory.
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:44 am

Post by Fishythefish »

I agree that there is a significant possibility BC was roleblocked. It's fair enough not to treat me as clear.
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:44 am

Post by BloodCovenent »

I sent a PM to the mod. haven't gotten anything back yet.
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:23 am

Post by cades »

Blood is telling the truth. Why else would no one die 1st night due to mafia?

Sando is telling the truth, so that kill N0 was by him.

Someone already said my plan (I think fishy)

But if blood is mafia he really pulled this off good.
But get rid of Kyle, I think he is mafia anyway.
Then if he isn't at night I and kiyle would say even before the day ended that we would kill --- that night.

Blood protects one of I or Sando.
Even if they kill 1 of us.
That would leave 4. If somehow 1 of the 4 remaining were really scum then I would lynch Blood as he seems that he could of lied. So then Sando or I could kill, I would say Borge, then either one of us would need to hurry and lynch the other if fishy lied, although he can't cause if Blood was town and was doctor then he wouldn't of lived after he went after fish.

So it is a town win.
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:17 pm

Post by Bogre »

cades wrote:Blood is telling the truth. Why else would no one die 1st night due to mafia?
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:57 pm

Post by Sando »

Bogre wrote:
cades wrote:Blood is telling the truth. Why else would no one die 1st night due to mafia?
Doublekills.
Not unless I'm actually an SK. If scum had targetted the same person as me on N0 then I would have actually protected Lowell instead of killing him.
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:12 pm

Post by Fishythefish »

Indeed. Bloodscum needs some other roles we don't know about in the mix to prevent a n0 kill.
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:54 am

Post by Rhinox »

OK, here's where I'm at. i've been rereading, and now i'm not as certain about what to do...

Blood: Likely town. Certainly not an sk. Certainly not a sole remaining mafioso assuming 1 mafia team of 3. Possible mafioso if there is a second scum team, but that is so far unlikely. If this is the case, I would peg fishy as the 4th mafiosos.

Bogre: possible mafia

cades: almost certainly a cpr doc. certainly not a traditional sk (no kill N0). possible anti town with odd mechanics (even-night sk, 1-shot mafia), but I don't think hyposcum cades pulls a cprdoc claim out of thin air.

kyle99: possible mafia

tubby: possible mafia

Sando: certainly not mafia (claimed mafia kill). Either a true CPR doc, or an sk. Given the benefit of the doubt for now for taking out a mafia, but we have to be careful because I've seen 2 mafia + 1 sk as the only scum roles in a game before... if that were the case in this game, however, I wouldn't think the mafia would be limited to 2 goons without a RB.

fishy: possible mafia due to probable roleblock on blood last night.

I have a couple nagging issues...

Fishies predecessor, soylent has an interesting connection to dana, which is now meaningful, knowing dana is scum. This post, Soylent points out a "scum tell" on dana, and coaches him over the use of an FOS. Later on, towards the bottom of this post, after being questioned about that very comment, soylent explains that "he's not voting dana because he's already voting someone who's dropped more scumtells". The peculiar thing about it is those are the only two posts where soylent even mentioned dana, and the second linked post gives me the impression that he at least wants us to think he was considering dana as a suspect. This is odd because during the rest of his play, soylent never gave any indication that dana was one of his top lynch choices, and he didn't really have any trouble questioning other players or pointing out other players who he thought was scummy. 3 out of the 4 (cades, parama, kyle, and ellibereth) he mentioned directly or implied as suspects are either known or probable town (more on kyle below). He also flipped back and forth a lot on cades and parama, but always seemed intent on lynching kyle. Rereading a little more, I noticed soylent jumped on and voted kyle just 3 posts after URoE did here. very interesting...

Kyle also has a connection to dana. This post is actually pretty damning for kyle. If you guys don't remember, dana unvoted a suspect to FOS kyle. Later on, in this post, dana upgrades his FoS to a vote. What I can't figure out is if these 2 posts point to more likely kyle-scum or more likely kyle-town. The FoS points to kyle-scum, but the vote...idk. It could be bussing, but I'm not sure dana-scum busses his scum partner D1. I don't get the impression dana voted kyle out of pressure to do it either.

URoE was anti-kyle for a big part of the day yesterday. I think this is town points for kyle, because URoE took a more subtle approach to bussing dana here and here. (this is of course assuming it was bussing and they're not separate factions.) URoE mentioned Bogre and solemnJ only a couple times, and he had SolemnJ listed as a 3rd lynch choice and possible sk at some point. He barely mentioned soylent at all.

Dana voted Bogre in the RVS. This may or may not be important... I think due to site meta, experienced players are not likely to "random" vote their scum partner. Dana was inexperienced and possibly could have. I believe thats how the current meta came to be... inexperienced players random voting their scum partner and being discovered as a connection later. idk though... taken in context with his next move as unvoting to FOS kyle... I'm just not sure. Thats about it as far as it goes for important stuff from dana.


SolemnJ/tubby: Here... I remember for the beginning of the game solemnJ was voting me a lot for what he claimed was a meta reason, but he never gave evidence. I really hated his question here. Or this question. Other than that, solemnJ doesn't really give a lot of opinions/suspicions. Thats either "townie unsure what to do", or "scum avoiding suspicions". Tubby has given us nothing so far.

fishy replaces in all over URoE. URoE was already on his way out by that point, so it could be that fishy was able to see right through URoE replacing in fresh, or it could be bussing. aside from that, he's seemed pretty solid.

Just thought of something else... assuming a RB opens up other possibilitiesas to what potential killing roles can be left.


Well, this little re-reading/exploring connection exercise didn't help me as much as I hoped it would... anyone see anything I missed or anything in my analysis that is more important than I gave it credit for? I think after doing this, kyle looks more town to me. I think I'm going to have to stick with my gut and vote bogre after everyone has a chance to look over my analysis, unless something gamechanging happens.
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:31 pm

Post by tubby216 »

i see kyle as complete newb town bogre i am still having to work on.

i will post examples quotes later.
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:47 pm

Post by cades »

it doesn't matter Town wins.

vote: kyle
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:56 pm

Post by kyle99 »

cades wrote:it doesn't matter Town wins.

vote: kyle
Dude, no one wants to follow your dumb plan. You've shown almost no intelligence all game, and you admitted to lurking because you didn't want people to pick up on your scummiesness. That is NOT pro-town behavior.
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:08 pm

Post by cades »

Everyone already knows I am CPR.
If not then why was there 3 deaths.

Also it doesn't matter if we vote you, borge or tubby, town wins.

It is simple.
I already showed how, and I believe Fishy did.

Why is it so dumb anyway?
If you were town you would see how this would work.
I really don't see how it couldn't, even if there was 2 mafia.
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:08 pm

Post by cades »

Everyone already knows I am CPR.
If not then why was there 3 deaths.

Also it doesn't matter if we vote you, borge or tubby, town wins.

It is simple.
I already showed how, and I believe Fishy did.

Why is it so dumb anyway?
If you were town you would see how this would work.
I really don't see how it couldn't, even if there was 2 mafia.
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:17 pm

Post by cades »

Everyone already knows I am CPR.
If not then why was there 3 deaths.

Also it doesn't matter if we vote you, borge or tubby, town wins.

It is simple.
I already showed how, and I believe Fishy did.

Why is it so dumb anyway?
If you were town you would see how this would work.
I really don't see how it couldn't, even if there was 2 mafia.

Also I lurked for like the first 2 days.

Then I couldn't come on just cause I couldn't.
Then I came on.

You are the one that rarely comes on and believes whoever posts after you.

You change your vote almost everytime.
You probably are town just because the way you play is so stupid that it wouldn't even be mafia.
But I don't even care cause there is like a 90% chance you borge or whatever or tubby I think is mafia.
Since if we follow my simple plan all 3 of you would die when it hit day 3.
Then if none of you were mafia then town would still get 2 lynches possibly 3 if Blood protected one of us. but if anyone of us 5 was mafia I almost know it would be him.
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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:17 pm

Post by cades »

Everyone already knows I am CPR.
If not then why was there 3 deaths.

Also it doesn't matter if we vote you, borge or tubby, town wins.

It is simple.
I already showed how, and I believe Fishy did.

Why is it so dumb anyway?
If you were town you would see how this would work.
I really don't see how it couldn't, even if there was 2 mafia.

Also I lurked for like the first 2 days.

Then I couldn't come on just cause I couldn't.
Then I came on.

You are the one that rarely comes on and believes whoever posts after you.

You change your vote almost everytime.
You probably are town just because the way you play is so stupid that it wouldn't even be mafia.
But I don't even care cause there is like a 90% chance you borge or whatever or tubby I think is mafia.
Since if we follow my simple plan all 3 of you would die when it hit day 3.
Then if none of you were mafia then town would still get 2 lynches possibly 3 if Blood protected one of us. but if anyone of us 5 was mafia I almost know it would be him.
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:18 pm

Post by cades »

Everyone already knows I am CPR.
If not then why was there 3 deaths.

Also it doesn't matter if we vote you, borge or tubby, town wins.

It is simple.
I already showed how, and I believe Fishy did.

Why is it so dumb anyway?
If you were town you would see how this would work.
I really don't see how it couldn't, even if there was 2 mafia.

Also I lurked for like the first 2 days.

Then I couldn't come on just cause I couldn't.
Then I came on.

You are the one that rarely comes on and believes whoever posts after you.

You change your vote almost everytime.
You probably are town just because the way you play is so stupid that it wouldn't even be mafia.
But I don't even care cause there is like a 90% chance you borge or whatever or tubby I think is mafia.
Since if we follow my simple plan all 3 of you would die when it hit day 3.
Then if none of you were mafia then town would still get 2 lynches possibly 3 if Blood protected one of us. but if anyone of us 5 was mafia I almost know it would be him.
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:19 pm

Post by cades »

oh sorry my computer messed up and I guess it made me post like 10 times.
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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:49 pm

Post by kyle99 »

cades wrote:Everyone already knows I am CPR.
If not then why was there 3 deaths.

Also it doesn't matter if we vote you, borge or tubby, town wins.

It is simple.
I already showed how, and I believe Fishy did.

Why is it so dumb anyway?
If you were town you would see how this would work.
I really don't see how it couldn't, even if there was 2 mafia.
Ok, I already know your CPR doc, I just don't think your playing very pro-town, but your avoiding my question. Why did you intentionally lurk, and what purpose did it serve, and how on earth is that pro-town behavior?
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:54 pm

Post by Sando »

Cades, it is not a guaranteed win for town yet, it might be, but it might not be.

1: You are not a guaranteed CPR doc, you probably are, and I at least would bet on you being one, but it's not guaranteed.

2: You don't know if I'm an SK

3: You don't know if there's 1 or 2 scum left

4: You don't know if BC is scum

5: You don't know if the scum have a roleblocker

6: You don't know that Rhinox and Fishy are cleared

All of these mean that it's not guaranteed to be in the list of Tubby/Bogre/Kyle, that's the most likely scenario, but it is most certainly not guaranteed.

Having actually gone through and made a plan that accounts for 3 of those 5, I know that it's not guaranteed yet.
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:23 pm

Post by Fishythefish »

I think that, given our current information, it's clear that the lynch should be from {tubby, bogre, kyle}. You could add me to that list, I suppose. Within there, our only tool is traditional, d1, no role information scumhunting. I've had my say on this - Bogre is scum.

I'll have a look at my predecessor's link to URoE when I've got a moment.
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:47 am

Post by Bogre »

Sando wrote: 1: You are not a guaranteed CPR doc, you probably are, and I at least would bet on you being one, but it's not guaranteed.
Easy way to clear one of you.

1. Cades targets Sando.
2. BC targets Sando.

If Cades is scum, BC dies and so does Cades. 1 dead town, 1 dead scum.

If Cades is town, BC lives, and protects Cades.- Two cleared towns.

Then you can do it again to see if the other is scum. Plus, Scum can't mess with it, assuming kills and protects go through even if they are targetted. Would also clear BC- if BC is lying and can't doc one, they'll die and flip and he'll be alive.
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:48 am

Post by Sando »

Roleblocker can mess with it. But having me and Cades kill each other overnight was a fairly common theme in my 'how we win this' theory.

Anyways, I'll post it, this only accounts for 1 mafia and doesn't take into account Rhinox or Fishy possibly being an SK. Note that confirmed townies aren't actually confirmed, just sorta confirmed. This also assumes no RB. I'm not sure if BC could win as an SK if the scum is in D-H.

A - CPR Doc
B - CPR Doc
C - Weak Doc
D - Confirmed Townie
E - Confirmed Townie
F - Unknown
G - Unknown
H - Unknown

Firstly, we lynch F, A agrees to kill G overnight, B agrees to kill H overnight, C agrees to do nothing. Scum have 5 options, kill a CPR doc, kill Weak Doc, Kill confirmed townie, protect G or H, do nothing. Here's how we react to each:

Kill a CPR doc (assume A)


B,C,D,E alive. B or C must be scum, no lynch, B agrees to kill C overnight. If B is scum, he just killed a weak doc and is left with 2v1, he loses. If C is scum he’ll die. If B kills anyone else, still in a 2v1.

Kill Weak Doc


A,B,D,E alive. No Lynch, A and B agree to kill each other overnight.

Protect G or H (assume G) by targeting them for kill to nullify CPR doc.

A,B,C,D,E,G alive

Lynch G, C protects A, A kills B.

A,D,E alive, possibly C as well. If C dead, lynch A for win. If C alive, no lynch, A agrees to kill C, basically same situation as if scum killed a CPR doc first night. This also assumes that the lack of a kill from scum to stop the Doc kill doesn’t confirm the doc.

Kill a confirmed townie


A,B,C,D alive

Lynch C, A and B agree to kill each other overnight.

Scum do nothing


A,B,C,D,E alive. Lynch C, A and B agree to kill each other.


These all are predicated on the idea that we won't kill scum in F/G/H obviously. Also, I think in all of these neither A or B are ever in an SK winning position, I'm not sure of this, I drew it up without that thought in my mind, but going back and checking, I can't see how either A or B as SK could win.

After the last few posts by people, I don't think this will work, but it's the best I could think of.
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:49 am

Post by BloodCovenent »

No bogre, in the first one, if cades is scum and sando is town, i would still be alive, and i would have protected sando.
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:12 am

Post by Rhinox »

I don't really like any of the plans that ignore the possibility of a RB or mafia kill royally screwing things, which is pretty much all of them.

I'm with fishy on the bogre lynch still.

vote: bogre


kyle would be my second lynch choice.

I'm fairly confident that lynching bogre leads to a win, but if bogre is not scum, cades and sando should choose to kill between fishy, tubby, and kyle WITHOUT announcing who they will kill. I'd actually prefer you each choosing randomly between the 3. This is because if bogre is not scum and fishy, tubby or kyle are, we don't need them knowing if they are going to be targetted and which cprvig is the one targetting them. If you choose randomly, there is a 33% chance that you'll target the same player, but its worth limiting the info to the remaining scum if it gets that far.

If bogre IS mafia and the game still goes on to night, then both CPR docs should target each other to rule out one of them being an SK (both should die, whether they're telling the truth or if 1 of them is an sk, unless there is a 4th mafia and they mess with it via their kill choice/RB), and then if that doesn't end the game, the rest of {me, fishy, BC, tubby, kyle} minus whoever is nked play out the endgame scenario searching for the final scum.

The plan is the same if we lynch kyle instead of bogre, just swap their names wherever you see them above. But bogre is scum and we should lynch him.

I don't know the optimal play for BC if the game goes to night. I'd probably play like a doc and try to prevent the nk. It would be risky to try to clear another townie, and with the probability of a RB if thats not what bogre is when we lynch him, you can't reliably clear anyone anyways.

yea or nay? I think its a pretty solid plan...
BloodCovenent wrote:No bogre, in the first one, if cades is scum and sando is town, i would still be alive, and i would have protected sando.
I think bogre meant that you protect cades. Then his explanation makes sense. But I don't like it because if everyone is telling the truth, sando dies, and the remaining scum kills bloodcov, leaving 2 dead town PR's and cades unconfirmed.

But its not going to get this far because we're going to lynch bogre and end the game.
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