Designer Mafia II: Game Over!

[Mgm]

Random vote: shadyforce

because he's ...... well... shady...

[Mgm]

Does anyone want to own up to writing the role of gslamm or Otaku376?
It would provide insightful info in how FD handled the roles we submitted.

[Mgm]

DS, is your vote random?

JFOS (joking finger of suspicion) on Lord Gurgi for the extreme amount of vote counts. You might want to consider contributing to the discussion, instead of compiling vote counts.

[Mgm]

I'll join the Scott Morgan bandwagon to see where it takes us.

Unvote: shadyforce, Vote: Scott Morgan

[Mgm]

Mod, Narninian has two votes outstanding...

[Mgm]

I think that's enough votes on him so i will instead...
Unvote: KingEnigma, FOS: Scottmorgan
At least until he shows up to defend himself, nobody speed lynch please.

There's something biting at me... I'm not sure what though so i'll let you guys know if i figure it out.

Would you mind sharing what's bothering you?

Vote: Fuldu for threatening the starter of a random day one bandwagon being a bit trigger-happy huh?

huh, where did he do that?

Thanks for the contributions, they're much better than the vote counts.

*awaits Scott Morgan defense*

[Mgm]

Unvote: Scott Morgan

.
At the moment his response looks newbie-ish. But IGMEOY...
I'll have to reread to see if I can find something else that's suspicious.

[Mgm]

First

Unvote: Scott Morgan

.

DS: why be some ambiguous about the vote? Why not just say Vote: Scott Morgan for lurking?

Lord Gurgi: You found Fuldu scummy and jumped on the Scott Morgan wagon instead of making your point about Fuldu? You're just taking the easy way. When I look over your posts they tend to send out scummy vibes and bad logic. (For example: rereading 3 pages can be good, no one can remember every single detail in the discussion)

I'll

vote: Lord Gurgi

[Mgm]

My first win - http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=755

Well if i'm sending off scummy vibes i'm sorry but this is my 2nd game

So you're saying this is your 2nd game while you won your first? You should know how to not cast scummy vibes, if that's the case.

Vote stays.

*off to read Gurgi's sig game*

[Mgm]

Well Gurgi, you are being bandwagoned as well and pointing back to Scott is kind of doing the same as he did, isn't it? Why didn't you role claiming yourself when you were ahead in votes?

My vote on you stays for now, but I'll

FOS Scott Morgan

for being silent.

(BTW there's no need to confirm vote when there's no deadline set and there's a change it will confuse the mod in their count.)

Can we have another vote count?

[Mgm]

When I'm playing games with odd rules and/or roles (this would include Designer, of course), I tend to keep an open mind on the included roles and the game mechanics. Unless night deaths, voting patterns and claims prove otherwise, I keep a cult as an option to recon with.

[Mgm]

Lynching a possible investigator wouldn't be a smart move.
So

Unvote: Lord Gurgi

[Mgm]

Also another unaswered thing was in post 56 LG said there was something biting at him (I am guessing he meant he had some suspicious about someone or something) he never elaborated on that either.

If I remember correctly, I asked for more on that as well. Could you elaborate, LG?

... and also some kind of roleblocker. I didn't submit any roleblockers, did anyone? We might be able to get some more info from them.

I don't think we could get any info from roleblockers right now. It would involve them outing themselves, when we don't have a clue on how many doctors there are to protect them and Lord Gurgi.

FOS: Silgado

for suggesting we could use roleblocker info when we can't.

[Mgm]

Well we have two killing parties (opening post of the day). Wether they're mafia or something else, is still the question.

[Mgm]

It doesn't end when I die.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean Gurgi.
Are you telling us that your results are automatically passed to people on your payroll?

[Mgm]

Right ow, I'm having a hard time believing Scott Morgan. If I had a post restriction that could potentially get me an ability I would either:
1) Stuff as much info in one post as I could.
2) Say I had a restriction, before I went over the limit (and kept quiet abou the ability gain).

Why did you say so little in the few posts you could make that would allow you to gain the doc ability?

[Mgm]

Yep, I remembered that too. He did ask for more scum roles.

[Mgm]

Vote: BlueSin

TSS is right. You can't have enough discussion and with 2 deaths during the night, you can be sure there's two scum groups, even though you can't be sure of what kind they are.... That looks scummy to me.

[Mgm]

Well the problem is that apparently there's only one scum left (from the group that otaku and scott were part of) and then I'm guessing there might be another SK left... so the SK doesn't really have too much to do with the mafia group, so Bluesin might even be the SK, you know?

And how exactly would you know they belong to the same group?

FOS: Silgado{/b]

[Mgm]

This will go nowhere fast if no one posts.
Let me start by asking BlueSin for some sort of a defense.
There. 8)

That should initiate some posting.

If it doesn't, I think I'll start to hunt for lurkers like Nanook.
Not posting for 22 days is far too long.

[Mgm]

I'm with Fuldu on this one. To me a 50% effective doc called a chemist doesn't really fit Designer, but what I'm wondering about is what on earth he'd have to ask the mod. How hard could a role like that be?

I think he's stalling, hoping we'll jump on someone else in the mean time.

My vote stays.

[Mgm]

We've had some theories about our reviver, but I've no idea where to go next. Did anyone send in a reviver role we could use to start our deducing?

BlueSin, do you have anything to say about your revival?

[Mgm]

Mod asked and I choose to hide that in my role description.

Can you explain more about this? Do you mean to say the mod asked you to not tell certain stuff in your claim?

[Mgm]

I think you meant censor

I think whether you're "80% innocent" or not. The 50% doc claim makes you a prime target for the mafia anyway. I'm not sure if I should vote right now. The suspicious stuff you said yesterday still stands.

Didn't we have 2 killing parties? Seems very unlikely no one died last night. Blockers should keep their targets in mind.

BlueSin who did you protect?

[Mgm]

In that case, it's even stranger there haven't been any kills last night. If he really was a doc, his protection would have been vital to prevent night kills, since I believe we still have 2 killing parties left.

How exactly could those kills have been stopped when he wasn't protecting anyone? We already have one doc dead.

Maybe a blocker helped out or some scum forgot to send in a choice?
Otherwise, I think BlueSin probably faked his claim and isn't really a doctor.

FOS: BlueSin

[Mgm]

If BlueSin was mafia and able to fake his death, I'd have no problems to believe he could fake his role as well.

Anyway, I guess it would be good to broaden our view instead of focussing on BlueSin like yesterday.

Ummm... I don't know whether to believe Bluesin or not... it does make sense though. But if he's mafia, or sk, wouldn't that mean that he has the ability to kill, the ability to fake his death and the ability to fake his role? That sounds a bit too much no?

Faking a death and role belong together. So I don't think it would be too much.
Why is that so hard for you to believe?

No vote from me yet.

[Mgm]

And that's exactly the reason, why I don't buy BlueSin's doc claim.
If the potion he drank, caused him to not make a night choice, it would become even less likely that no one died last night.

I'll go and read some death scenes to see if I can get my mind cleared up about the amount of scum groups and other such things.

[Mgm]

I'm back after quick reread of the nights and day 1.

The Mimic Serial Killer Role PM in the opening post initially threw me off track.
It mentioned that if Shadyforce chose for example a doc to imitate, the kill would've been performed with a scalpel. However, both night 1 victims where shot.
(This would mean we had two killers in addition to Shady)

It's the fact that Otaku's killer became known as the killer doc, that should've pointed me to Shadyforce. The alias killer doc was mentioned in Shady's death scene, but it didn't really register until now.

I guess 1 killing group left is more likely after all.

[Mgm]

I interpreted this as: "I don't believe you at the moment, but I don't want to risk losing a cop type at the moment." But the way he went about phrasing that does feel a bit off.

[Mgm]

unvote: lord gurgi. I dont entirely believe that you are the master spy, you still seem suspicious to me, but if there is even a chance that you are telling the truth i dont want to contribute to killing our doc off

this early

, i dont have a lot to go on otherwise but this is enough to remove my vote.

There that should make that sentence a little more clear. the sentence still sounds fine to me, but I am bias.

I think you meant to say cop instead of doc. 8)

[Mgm]

Unvote: (was I voting anyone?); Vote: Silgado

I'd also like to know how you could know he wasn't targetted.
But whatever happened last night, I don't think it makes him suspicious.
I think there's three options:
1) LG wasn't targetted (the scum thought he was protected)
2) LG was targetted, but protected (hence my curiosity about your statement)
3) LG was targetted, but had some sort of self-protection (seems to make his role too powerful, so I'll discount this)
IMO none of the above scenario make him overly scummy.

To me Lord Gurgi is pretty much confirmed innocent.
I think it's highly unlikely he faked his role - and if he did Fuldu wouldn't back him up.
There is such a thing as a healthy dose of paranoia, but this is going too far.

...I'm not saying that someone might have tried but he was protected, he wasn't targeted at all... this of course would go along with Bluesin being mafia and not able to kill anyone...

So you're saying there's one piece of mafia scum out there?

[Mgm]

assuming Shady killed Otaku:
I've just checked Shady's death scene and it looks like he was killed by a Ninja.
That kill is markedly different from gslamm's death, whos killer sounds more like a bad comedian to me, so in other words I think we have at least two mafia left. Of course, this theory would crumble if there was another Mimic Serial Killer.

[Mgm]

*shakes his hand*
Welcome, PeaceBringer!

[Mgm]

PeaceBringer, I'd recommend watching the first post of the game where all the deaths are summarized and reading the nightscenes, and final vote counts to get a general feel of the game, but I'm afraid you'll have to read the entire thread to get on top of things.

[Mgm]

Well, I'm not offended at all, your status as "townsperson" under your name, didn't really point out you had experience. Sorry for mistaking you as a newbie.

This day opened with some celebrations (that lead to 48 hours of free communications) after that the game kinda stalled, so I'm not really sure what the current state of affairs is myself.

Since you read through the entire thread yourself, I don't think we can really tell you much more about the current state of affairs. Sorry. I guess we're trying to get some wagons started.

[Mgm]

(oops! sorry for the double post.)

Never mind that last post, I thought I was posting in Asterix Mafia....

[Mgm]

What are you confused about?

[Mgm]

I did manage to look at Silgado and Mgm's posts out of context, and of them I found Mgm's a bit nastier, so vote: Mgm.

I figure we have a few days to kill.

In fact, we have a deadline in about 2 days. I find the speed with which this bandwagon on me is moving disturbing. There's hardly anything I can defend against and if nothing happens soon I'll be deadline lynched.

Since I doubt there's enough genuine docs left to protect Lord Gurgi and me, I was hoping to get my suspects lynched without revealing my role. Immediately voting Silgado at the start of the day would've attracted too much attention to me, so I jumped on the wagon once it started to form in the hope of convincing you guys with logic. I guess subtlety isn't my strong point.

In view of the approaching deadline - I'll claim and hope I'm wrong about the amount of docs left. I'm the Shop Owner and I can check to see what one person bought each night.

Night 1: gslamm bought a set of binoculars (I choose him because he's a good player and I find it important to know the alignment of good players)

Night 2: BlueSin bought Nitroglycerin (Hence, my hesitance in voting BlueSin yesterday. However, being a chemistry student, I know this stuff can kill people and I somehow doubt the stuff works against gunshot wounds. Care to explain, BlueSin?)

Night 3: Silgado bought ammunition

Hence my voting today: I suspect BlueSin of faking his own death in order to gain the trust of the town. And with the lack of vigilante kills I doubt Silgado is pro-town either. I'd like for them both to be lynched, but I'm more certain of Silgado's guilt. That's why I switched.

[Mgm]

I meant game Days, since the kills suggest that the only evil left is one mafia.

Whatever happened to testing a claim before lynching the claimee? If you really believe there's one mafia left then why are you voting a claimed investigator? Shouldn't you be trying to check the claim? And why have Peacebringer and KingEnigma posted in other games since my claim, yet failed to comment on my claim?

Someone will probably call me overdefensive for saying all this, but I really have to say something. How is going silent for

27 hours

going to help us? By going idle you hand over control to the scum.

I'd prefer to be lynched by a talking town than die because of a deadline. Discussion gives the survivors pointers on who the scum could be. Talking about a deadline,

does anyone know who gets lynched at the deadline?

It's not mentioned in the rules.
---

Interesting claim, although the results are vague and it's all revealed roles except Silgado. Vote stands for now.

I don't see how my results are vague. Binoculars fit the spy role, nitroglycerin is part of a chemist's inventory and scum shoot with ammunition. The fact that 2 of these people have claimed/died since is unfortunate, but m00t since I had had good reasons to investigate them.
I suspected BlueSin and Silgado of being mafia, gslamm was a night one random choice.

[Mgm]

Well, there's probably a lot of people in this town that want me lynched.
Did anyone send in a target swapper role? That would explain what happened to my results.

[Mgm]

Apparently Norinel bought some paper and writing supplies from me. No clue what it means, though. I was suspicious of him because he still voted me after I claimed.

[Mgm]

I might be missing something, but how would those two individuals coming out and admitting to targetting you help the town? I would be surprised if one of the people who targetted you attempted to do so with the intent to kill you. The killers were busy killing Gurgi and DS.

[Mgm]

FOS: My bandwagoners

Yes, you have good reason to find me scummy. But I'm positive someone messed with my results. Why is it so hard to believe that someone designed such role in Designer Mafia?
Then again, if scum designed it, they're not gonna tell...

To just put on 3 votes (putting me 2 away from a lynch) this early, is scummy as well. There's no more info to be had from me, and you don't want lynch me and end the day to end without discussion about other issues (if you're town, that is). Having info tomorrow is crucial if you want the town to win, and it looks to me like you don't.

Norinel, could you reveal a bit more on how my investigation relates to your role? (without revealing too much, of course)

[Mgm]

It doesn't reveal too much to say that based on my role name, my role relates to science, so paper could be for notes or something. I think that it'd be more likely that you'd find something that'd be related to the particular branch of science my role is involved with or something.

That's your opinion. It's never good to second guess a mod. And from experience (I'm a scientist myself) I know scientists use lots of paper. They're notorious for it, so it's not weird I found you bought some.

vote: Mgm. Lynching a claimed investigator is always hard, but for one who

hasn't given us any information

and gave me a bad feeling yesterday, I feel it's worth shooting the moon.

Huh? You admit my investigation could fit and you are still willing put me one away from a lynch? Shouldn't your new info be discussed first?
And how didn't I give you guys any information? I offered everything I know!

HUGE FOS: Norinel

for false accusations and denying investigational evidence.

[Mgm]

mgm-care to point out another useful direction. I have BS screaming at me from your claims and the info you have provided.

It's just simple village shop and I doubt my stock contains test tubes, NMR machines, or whatever it is Norinel uses. Would you believe me if I told you he bought some sort of scientific instrument in my shop?

Plus you have one purchase that is in no way related to a dead guys role.
So the claim is role messed with. Quickest way to find that out is to lynch you. If you are tellign truth fine. It is not like you have a very useful investigative power.

My investigations could be more useful if I wasn't forced to reveal them before the target claimed a role.

Maybe I could investigate someone chosen by the majority of the town if that's what you guys like...

[Mgm]

Peacebringer, would you care to comment on the first part of my post #387?

[Mgm]

Nitroglycerin is also used as a medicine for people with a heart condition.
Why wouldn't I have it in stock?

Most scientific machines won't even fit into a shop let alone be
carryable for anyone who buys them.

[Mgm]

Talk about other people, before you lynch me!
Not doing so, helps the scum in hiding.
If the only player discussed is me, they won't have to fear having to claim,
or otherwise be exposed.

By ending the day now, you are not going to gain information from it.

[Mgm]

TSS - to clarify:

My initial investigation made me think Norinel was innocent (though not entirely sure), but the way he tries to end the day without giving PopsicleStix the chance to speak and without giving people the chance to discuss issues besides me, like the investigative result he supposedly received from Fuldu is scummy in my eyes.

[joke]Sure you aren't a MAD scientist, Norinel ? [/joke]

[Mgm]

Therefore, I can only conclude that the three remaining scum (two with Dragon Slayer's group, and one left with Otaku and Scott Morgan's) are Norinel, PeaceBringer and Mgm. Norinel went back and forth on Mgm, the only person to do so, and he was confident the mafia wouldn't leap onto Mgm's wagon and end the day. Why? Because he knew that they were already there!

There's always something as misguided townies in a game - people who think they're sure who the scum is, but who are really mistaken. Someone could just simply jump on my bandwagon, because they think I'm guilty. They don't have to be scum to finish me off!

Unvote

Awaiting more discussion.

Since Norinel received info about the right investigative target, which Fuldu purposely withheld, I tend to believe his results. That is - unless they work together.

[Mgm]

Your calculation of town/scum ratio implies you think we're in the end game.
Is that the case? Because if it is, maybe you could sway the town by making a believable claim. Secrecy isn't going to help us much longer. (Yes, that is a call for mass claiming)

Also, how are you so convinced PB and Norinel are both scum?
Norinel saying you're scum is an obvious reason, but what do

you

have against PB?

[Mgm]

For the record, I'm not the other half of the married couple.

[Mgm]

Mod, can you prod PopsicleStix and KingEnigma?
I'd like to know if either of them can confirm TSS's claim.

[Mgm]

Claim list

BlueSin - Insane Chemist/ Doctor
Fuldu - ?
KingEnigma - can see who targets him/ no name provided
Mgm - Shop Owner/ copish role
Norinel - Scientist/ says he can make two lynches happen today
PeaceBringer - Police Dog/ cop that has to send out results.
PopsicleStix - ?
the silent speaker - Half of Married Couple

TSS, do you know who your other half is? or are you looking for them?

would like to hear more what the scientist role is supposed to do.

Me too. Norinel, how does the two lynches part fit your role?

I'd still like to hear from PopsicleStix and Fuldu regarding TSS's claim...

[Mgm]

TSS, can you explain why you targetted KE twice?
(assuming he's telling the truth)

[Mgm]

TSS, that was bad logic.
It is in the town's best interest to kill of the red mafia and bring the night kills down to 1.

I'd be quite happy voting for TSS, but I'd still like to hear from PBug. Is your role half of a married couple?

[Mgm]

In that case, I'm ready to vote TSS.
Do we have anything else to discuss?

[Mgm]

Mgm, it's to the town's advantage to whittle the scum down in tandem. That way they might kill each other.

The key word being "might". The might kill each other they might not. Do you really want the death of scum to depend on choices of other scum?

Yes, with a double lynch we could potentially destroy the brown mafia, but we'd have to be sure on who the members are first.

[Mgm]

TSS, why do you consider Fuldu to be innocent? As far as I can remember, he's the only player who didn't role claim, which doesn't really invite trust.

Could someone post an updated claim list? I'm kinda short on time right now.

[Mgm]

There's no doubt on TSS being guilty, but that's not the point.
If I understand correctly, we're discussing - trying to find out who the scum are and whether Norinel should get in a second lynch before night fall and - if so - on who.

[Mgm]

Norinel, have you chosen your second lynch victim earlier (if so - would you like to share their name?), or can we still get a majority vote from everyone to determine who it should be?

[Mgm]

KingEnigma, do you have any explanations on why you didn't get killed after being targetted by TSS? That seems to be the only thing he could've been trying to do.

[Mgm]

Psst, Mr. Gnome isn't in this game.

I assume you guys also have an explanation for why I tried to get BlueSin lynched based on the nitroglycerin result I'd received. If I'd known it was faulty, I wouldn't have done that, since that would be complete suicide.

[Mgm]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if a there was to similar roles in the game.
Designer I had to serial killers (with - IIRC - quite similar roles).

What we'd have to ask ourselves is whether two similar mafia roles would help balancing the game.

[Mgm]

People who don't claim when everyone else has, are in my opinion taking the easy way out. Not claiming means there's nothing other people can use to prove your guilt/innocence other than their gut instinct. So I wouldn't mind if you shared.

You mentioned, you were proven innocent? Can you remind us when that happened?

[Mgm]

No it's not. According to my count it's 3 votes on me with 4 to lynch.

First you find me suspicious, then everyone unvotes, and suddenly everyone changes back. Why the sudden change of heart?

It wouldn't make sense for me to be scum.
BlueSin claimed a doc role and sooner or later he'd die anyway.
Why would I let my own life depend on something like that if
I wasn't sure of my results?

Also, I find it quite likely there's only one mafia left (from the brown mafia).
It wouldn't make sense for me one of them. I wanted BlueSin dead, and I only backed of because I couldn't get a bandwagon on him formed.

With PBug cleared by Gurgi and everyone else claimed, I find Fuldu's unwillingness to claim most suspicious. Once again, if someone doesn't claim it's easier to come across pro-town.

Therefore:

Vote: Fuldu

Nevertheless, I'd like to hear more from KE about TSS targetting him.

[Mgm]

Should've read: It wouldn't make sense for me

to be

one of them.

[Mgm]

Didn't Norinel claim scientist with an extra lynch ability?
His day stopping ability seems to indicate he was building some time travelling machine. So I'd guess he's a physicist. Looks like he claimed to me...

Second, pushing for fellow scum's death and backing off when you can't get a bandwagon started is actually quite common behavior.

Sure it is. But is it common for scum to try and get someone lynched
if that would prove your own claim wrong?

You might've hinted at parts of your role, but I can't remember much that would point to that direction. Guess I'll have to do a reread on that. Anyway. Everyone, apart from PBug, who was cleared by Gurgi has claimed (not hinted at a claim) and given a role name.

What facts do we really have on you? All we have is your hints.
The mere fact we have no solid facts about you makes you scummy IMO.

[Mgm]

With 6 alive, it looks like the mod made a mistake in the count. I'm lynched after all, unless someone had a special power that added 1 vote to the lynch.

I've done everything I could to defend myself so
have fun losing the game without me.

[Mgm]

I doubt there's two mirror men in the game and with PBug cleared by Gurgi. I don't see how Fuldu could be telling the truth. Also, unless the red mafia has four members, I doubt there's godfathers around. (That would mean 8 mafia in the game.) In other words, I doubt PBug is lying.

Confirm vote: Fuldu

[Mgm]

You have two abilities because you were recruited by Gurgi. Not because you started out with them. Just because you have two abilities at the moment, it doesn't clear you of being scum.

Anyway, to clarify are you saying you investigated TSS and when you result came back it didn't bounce to TSS (like attacks and other actions aimed at you), but to some other player?

[Mgm]

Two people just claimed a role with the same role name and you still wanna kill me without hearing more about it? Would you mind explaining that, PB?

[Mgm]

I was under the impression I was 1 away from a lynch.
That's what happens when we have to do without vote counts.
Could someone do a count?

[Mgm]

It actually makes sense to have two mirror men, because if you look in the mirror, there's you AND the reflection of you...

Wouldn't it more sense then, for you two to know about the other's role from the start of the game?

[Mgm]

*struggles and kicks*
I'm too young to die! HELP ME!!!

Anyway, please discuss tomorrow and make sure you get the scum.

Preferrably Fuldu...

[Mgm]

Congrats to the town. You had me fooled for a while when the votes on me were disappearing. I thought I was home free. Anyway I guess, I can congratulate myself on being the last scum left even though I completely lied about my claim.

GO SCUM!!!!