DP6 (Famous Women Mafia) - Game Over!!!!

[mith]

My other big scum possibility is mith.

Bah, what'd I do this time? Might I point out that you seem to *always* think I'm scum, and you're *always* wrong?

(Been gone this weekend, and feeling sick this morning, but I'll get caught up soon.)

[mith]

You defended Dirge's mistakes as something scum wouldn't purposely do.

And I stand by that. Evil folk don't make dumb moves like that on purpose. All it does is draw attention. Generally forces a role claim, like it did in this case, and got him lynched. And so basically it was non-evidence. And we all know how annoyed I get at people forcing role claims for no reason.

Beyond that, you know perfectly well why I defended him (or would if you re-read and reminded yourself). I remind you once again of HHGG1, where you were all over me like a rabid puppy for making a mistake on a date. I was innocent then. That is not to say I would not have made the mistake as Mafia, but it would not have been on purpose as you insinuated. I think I have a tad bit more respect for your reading skills than that, and I think Dirge does as well.

So, to summarize: go read, I never said he was innocent. I said that was not at all sufficient reason to vote for him. I do that all the time; and yes, sometimes as scum, but as innocent as well. Your whole case is "you did something unique, die". You should have learned by now that I never act like everyone else.

[mith]

Ah, mith, mith, mith.... if you could kindly give me an example of a mistake scum would make on purpose, I'd find that very interesting indeed.

Seems not to be agreeing with me so much as picking on a bad choice of words; in a future post I pointed out that by mistake I meant "clearly wrong thing presented as fact" or something along those lines. My point was that scum don't do something *that* obviously wrong thinking they are going to sway someone. And thus, it was a simple mistake.

Your insistence on still using "mistake", which I later corrected, confounds me. I'm not saying you were putting forth anything like "scum make mistakes on purpose", I'm saying you were putting forth the theory that Dirge would do something that stupid on purpose, and I disagreed. I certainly never said he was innocent, as you claimed was your reason for suspicion. So... *~shrug~* do with that what you will.

Scum seem to make them more than innocent people because they have something to hide.

I disagree. Scum screw up more than innocent people yes. Scum do *not* screw up *badly* more than innocent people. A typical scum mistake is getting caught on some techincality (like what he actually did get caught on). And again, if that's all I've got, I don't vote.

[mith]

There was Mafia 9 (I think), where the Mafia (in particular, the one that used poison) could store up kills; so, he would target people every night, but they wouldn't die until a few nights later.

Thing is, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the Mafia to show us they can poison, and *then* start storing kills.

[mith]

Bloody...

Vote: Electra

And I'll retract it when someone writes me a 500 word essay on why it is a bad idea to explain why you think something is a stupid argument for scumminess, and why it is a good idea to vote for someone with a one word "he's our best lead" line, with no reasoningg.

[mith]

And a 50 word summary on why mith should read his posts before pressing submit.

[mith]

Uh oh.

*~hides behind something~*

[mith]

Oh yeah, completely forgot she was the Cop. Still haven't finished reading.

Unvote: Electra

Still, come on guys. This is the world's stupidest bandwagon. You are voting me based on me arguing with a reason for voting someone who happened to be scum; something I had good reason to since the reasoning had been used at me in a previous game. I later voted for him when there was a *good* reason to. Not only that, but the only person actually *discussing* anything about me is MeMe, and she's not even voting for me! Instead you just do the lemming-thing at me. I'll

vote mneme

,
for doing exactly the same thing as Electra, and not being the Cop. Doesn't mean I think you're guilty, just means I think you're being foolish. I bet at least one of you is trying to get a quick no-discussion lynch on me though.

[mith]

Well durn it all to heck, 'cam...I done missed that Cad clear by Leo. I shore would like it iffen he'da speak up though.

unvote: Cadmium

I'm not the only one that forgets to read things! *~pokes d8P~*

[mith]

following a cop is now stupid? Have you given your role yet, mith? I've forgotten...

She's an outed cop, and she hasn't said "ooh, ooh, mith is scum". It's not stupid, but it's not a reason, either.

I haven't given my role. I can, if I must, but it won't necessarily convince anyone I'm innocent, so there's no point in doing it unless as a last resort. And I'm certainly not going to do it just because you want me to. You all know I hate bandwagoning for role claims. (not directed at you necessarily, just a warning)

The revenge votes are pointless, mith.

That's funny. I don't recall saying anything about a revenge vote. I do recall saying something on the subject of "posting reasoning when you vote", which again you don't do. Oh, but I forget, we here like to ignore everything mith actually says, and just say "oh, dear, mith posted something long, he must be scum". Doesn't matter I do it every single game.

I really hope you're not going to say something like "if I were really mafia, I'd hardly have made such an obvious mistake as to vote for the outed cop", mith.

I really think you guys are still missing the point of this whole debate. The point is not that I wouldn't make such a mistake as mafia, it's that it has nothing to do with my role. It's just a silly mistake. It wasn't ever intended as proof Dirge was innocent, and I certainly wouldn't use something similar to try to defend myself, but I will rip holes in things if you try to use it as a reason to vote for me. *~shrug~*

I'm going to re-read more before I weigh in on the MeMe-mith fight.

[sarcastic summary warning]

MeMe: That was dumb, Dirge, die.
mith: Scum wouldn't do that on purpose.
MeMe: Jab at use of "mistake on purpose".
mith: You know what I meant.
random people: Die Dirge Die.
Dirge: Y0, I'm a Cop.
random people: Oh, darn.
Electra: Hey, trapped!
random people: Die die die.

MeMe: I think mith is suspicious for defending Dirge.
mith: I didn't defend Dirge, I said that was a stupid reason for voting for something
10 posts later
MeMe: So people vote for different reasons.
mith: Well duh.
Leonidas, Electra, and mneme: vote mith! We won't give a reason, because we suck!
mith: Bah, you suck too, Electra
MeMe: She's the Cop.
mith: Doh. vote mneme then
mneme: I still won't give a reason!
d8P: Don't defend yourself because you made a mistake.
lots of people: ~make various mistakes~
mith: ~writes sarcastic summary~

[mith]

I haven't given my role. I can, if I must, but it won't necessarily convince anyone I'm innocent, so there's no point in doing it unless as a last resort. And I'm certainly not going to do it just because you want me to. You all know I hate bandwagoning for role claims. (not directed at you necessarily, just a warning)

How on earth do you get "useful" out of that? I'm not saying it isn't useful, but still.

I don't bother to post reasons for my votes when they're obvious.

Obvious?? I've had a long argument with MeMe. If you actually read said argument, you would notice that her main reason for suspecting me in the first place (defending Dirge) isn't entirely factual (I didn't defend him, I thought a reason was stupid). MeMe hasn't come up with any sort of counter-attack on that point, and the conclusion of the argument was "hey, I vote for different reasons than you" basically; and she still isn't voting for me.

Nor do I see a reason
to add one when someone hasn't explicitly asked for a reason (which you hadn't until a few posts ago).

Read: I don't want to put myself out on a limb unless I have to. I'm content to sit back and try to be ignored, and don't have much interest in catching Mafia, or helping the rest of the town.

and I didn't have enough time to do the work of tracking
down idlefolk, while you're sounding scummier than most of the rest of the active (ie, visible) people

So you were lazy, and are going on a feeling? Fair enough on the feeling bit, but perhaps if you were paying more attention to the game, people would have reason to trust your feelings.

Cadmium (innocent, according to Electra)

That was Leonidas.

Mneme2 (replaced CubanSmoker) (Claimed Cleopatra. Idlish; on vacation from aug 14-aug 20)

I had forgotten you replaced cs. I suspected him too. Interesting.

I won't bother with the rest, but it's basically "I'm too lazy, they all seem ok, except mith". Seems like you're just reaching, to me (and not in a particularly impressive way, either).

Summary: You still haven't posted a reason other than "feeling", which is something that I can't defend against, but from the way you're being lazy and such, I don't think I need to.

[mith]

I don't think lynching Leo again is a serious option. An unlynchable bad guy would be very unlikely, mainly because it's very powerfull.

As is an unlynchable cop.

Not enough to vote for Leonidas or anything, but I am keeping my eye on him, he has a tendency to make up goofy roles.

[mith]

Calamity Jane was a one-shot vig, people seem to think Joan of Arc is a sword-wielding vigilante, and I can't picture Annie Oakley as being anything other than some type of vigilante. Food for thought, eh?

One-shot roles, especially Vigs, are very common in DP games. See also Dune.

[mith]

Random thought, which needs not be confirmed. Do lots of people have one-shot roles? I know I do, and there's two dead that do, plus Sketch and possibly Leo.

[mith]

I'll be gone until Sunday afternoon/evening, so if you notice a lack of obscenely long posts...

Unvote

until then, because I don't want you people doing something goofy while I'm gone.

FOS: mneme and Leonidas

for now, though.

[mith]

My brain tends to not read anything in blue for some reason. Makes my eyes tired, or something, so I just ignore it.

Anyway, I guess my big hang up right now is Leo's role claim. He's admitted that he's SaberKitty, and claimed this odd credit role, which just doesn't fit with anything I've ever seen from SK in a game. Maybe I've missed something, but DP's roles tend to be a bit more relevant to the character than that.

So, my theory would be that he's doing the typical bizarre role claim he usually does, and is in actuality SK the SK, with some added bonus to help him survive or something.

Vote: Leonidas

, until someone points out where this role might have come from in connection to SK.

[mith]

The idea is that he's actually a Serial Killer and could only avoid lynching once. I for one think that someone who has a bunch of credits that can be used for (apparently) any normalish purpose is way too powerful, especially as several of the roles we've had revealed are one-shot, or not at all powerful.

As for the Mafia, they might not be what we think of as evil women, DP has been known to use groups that have a common theme (though he may think of them as evil, of course) as the Mafia. They might be, though. We'll probably know more when we actually get one of them.

[mith]

And MeMe sorta beat me to it, 'cause I'm slow.

I'm fine with letting a Vig take him out, I just am doubting he'll survive another lynching, and a Vig might be more useful to us later on.

[mith]

SK, the problem is that such a role would be even *more* unbalancing as a good role. In games where everyone has roles, the Mafia have a tough enough time as it is with an unlynchable (possibly unkillable) super-cop on their hands. Serial Killers, on the other hand, have a notoriously low success rate, and the help might balance that out. As for the investigations, he could very well be making them up. None of his targets are going to dispute that they are innocent, after all.

I like MeMe's theory (good catch on the ripping!); however, we're back once again to the "do we try again" dilemma. I was hoping he could only survive one, but now that he's survived two it's a bit more plausible he's still got some lives left (scary thought: cats have nine lives? surely that's excessive, though).

More later, gotta go.

[mith]

(just posting to let you all know that I haven't disappeared, just a bit busy. still checking the thread, but waiting on mathcam, of course.)

[mith]

Vote: Corsato

I'm going to get very bored if you keep this up, Electra.

[mith]

More guilty, surely. There is simply no way that a good role would be that powerful. The only way it makes sense is if he is a Serial Killer.

[mith]

Well,

Unvote: Corsato

for now. Only because it's easily provable if he's telling the truth. Electra just needs to check him again. Whether we want to waste our time doing that or not is up for discussion.

But if he *is* telling the truth, I find it even more unlikely that Leonidas is. The roles are very similar, and at least Corsato's makes sense theme-wise.

[mith]

...er, I told you why I unvoted him. Electra asked him a question, and we can discuss whether we want to waste another investigation on him or just lynch him now. Until we decide that, there's no reason to be voting for him.

[mith]

Leo, if you still believe a unlynchable/unkillable Cop makes sense...

The only reason I'm not voting for you is that it might not do any good.

[mith]

Yeah, I think he's trying to say "oops, forgot", but I'm not buying it. Even if he hadn't read it, you wouldn't kill someone who had already role claimed unless there was a good reason, it just hurts the town. I think I'm satisfied that it's not worth wasting an investigation.

Vote: Corsato

[mith]

I've been ill all week, so I will probably take this back when I am feeling better, but

Vote: Leonidas

. I'm convinced he's scum, and if he's got the nine-lives thing, we might as well make some more progress on them.

[mith]

Again, I will ask you to please seat back, relax, think about my role a little, and ask yourselves seriously if a SK with credits makes sense.

Yes. It does. Much more so than the role you're claiming does.

The B Mafia theory doesn't seem all that far fetched to me, really. Perhaps there is an A Mafia as well. I just know that often when I'm making a game, even a theme game, I'll have the roles listed as Mafia A, Mafia B, SK, etc. Maybe DP did that first and then came up with the idea of assigning roles based on how they matched that. (Not enough I would vote for anyone with a A or B in their name, but something to consider later, anyway)

[mith]

4 Mafia would simply get slaughtered in a game with Leo's claimed role, and several other roles than can avoid being killed, protect, investigate, and kill. We've already got three dead scum, and that's just on the basis of Electra's role.

However, Leo at this point has no real reason to lie about d8P that I can think of, unless he's about to run out of credits and is trying to buy himself time. So, I'll think about switching. I just don't believe him.

[mith]

I think you people are all on crack.

But that's probably just me.

[mith]

Your witch-hunt of Leonidas doesn't jive to me, while Leo's claims stand up logically (and have been time-tested).

Her witch hunt?? She hasn't been after him nearly as hard as I have, even if she has been trying to kill him every night. I'd be doing the same thing if I could.

Come on, I hate being ignored here. I want to rant at someone.

And, of course, delaying a hard claim is a time-tested method of trying to get information out of someone -before- they know they're nailed -- a lot of people will act differently when a known investigator has fingered them than beforehand.

And that would be good logic, except that Leo has already claimed to be an investigator, and waited a whole

two posts

before implying that yes he had investigated d8P.

while Leo's claims stand up logically (and have been time-tested).

This is my favorite part. I'm not even going to rant about it, except to say that, no, this

Nope - sorry, it does not... even if it is your idea.

does not qualify as logic. All Leo has done is come out with a claim that, rather than fitting the theme of the game, fits is bizarre fetish with making role claims that make no sense, and then has repeatedly said "no, you're wrong, waah" when somebody even *suggests* that he might be scum.

I guess it's against the nature of logic to explain why all our theories are so stupid and wrong, though.

La la la la.

[mith]

Well, yes, that's part of the problem. He *hasn't* said straight out that he investigated d8P. Or much of anything else for that matter. Perhaps because he's afraid of being caught in a lie.

But clearly the implication is there, and it baffles me that any rational thinking person could interpret his post in any other way. As it was a response to your post, if the answer had been something *other* than the two options you offered, he certainly should have said so; and, as he said straight out that d8P is guilty (according to him), that rules out "hunch". Therefore it was reasonable to assume, from that post alone, that if Leonidas *is* telling the truth, he investigated d8P, and mneme's "delaying a hard claim" excuse is irrelevant.

[mith]

he's demonstrated the ability to do what he said he could -- not die repeatedly, and has (unprompted), come up with investigation results we can use to validate that part of his claim.

He's demonstrated the ability to not die, yes. Many of us believe that this is *more* suspicious; were he just a Cop with investigation credits, that would be far more plausible. However, it is completely plausible for someone, particularly Leonidas, to say "look, I'm not dying like I said, I must be innocent". It's classic scum tactics. It's not proof. It's hardly even evidence.

He has come up with investigation results, but only two, one of which was an innocent result (easily fabricated, again to make himself look innocent), the other quite possibly a panicked attempt to get rid of the role blocker that keeps blocking his kills.

This is far from proof tha he's scum, but add to this is complete lack of anything resembling evidence in any of his posts and his generally suspicious way of trying to shift blame, he's my first choice.

d8P isn't off the hook either though. There is a potential hole in his story that I'd like everyone to look for; make sure I'm just not imagining things. However, we'll get to that later. Once Leonidas is gone, we can use his *actual role* and come to a decision on d8P.

occam's razor should be cutting you to pieces about now.

Every time someone mentions Occam's Razor, they're scum.

Seriously though, Occam's Razor simply does not apply here. Is it more simple for DP to have an insanely powerful town role, or for Leonidas to make up bizarre town role like he does almost every game to cover up a powerful SK role? Nothing he has done gives more support to either alternative, and I think the second is far more likely.

I also do think that hard to justify pro-town roles are part of DP's evil plan (frex, my role has no abilities at all, with a note that this may be difficult to justify in a DP game).

Hard to justify town roles are just fine, normally. You reveal your role, no one thinks it can be true, so they lynch you, and the town is hurt.

Except we haven't been able to lynch him. He's too powerful. Granted, we're all going to look like morons if it really is his role (though, I'll still rant at DP for including such a strong role, and we'll still probably win because we aren't lynching any other innocents and the Mafia are having such a bad time of it), but odds are it isn't.

And as quoted, Leo was implying an investigation from his first vote, even if he didn't actually say it until later; I don't see anything amazingly suspicious there.

He didn't actually say it at all, that's the suspicious bit. But what I was responding to was your "defense" that it's a normal strategy to not give a solid investigation/claim/whatever right off, to try to trap the scum under fire; Leonidas didn't actually do that, because his implication was so clear right from the beginning.

[mith]

Vote: Leonidas

Die scum die, etc.

[mith]

Eh, I won't be a part of any pedestal. He's been acting suspicious all game, not answering questions, etc.

But yes, what will it take? Obviously a good part of the town is committed to killing you until you're dead.

[mith]

I don't even need to rip that apart at all.

Scum scum scum scum scum...

[mith]

Bleh, I suspect all of you.

Has Electra told us what her actual role name is? I forget.

[mith]

Or I could just read the list MeMe gave.

*~wanders off to think~*

[mith]

Yeah, I knew what she does, just couldn't remember what role name she said.

For some reason I still suspect Electra a bit. It's been too easy finding bad people, and she isn't dead yet. But I don't have anything solid there.

I would say Quail and Cadmium are my top suspects right now. I'll let Electra decide who we lynch though, I don't want to risk reveal MT in case she's a doc.

[mith]

Oh, don't worry, I wouldn't say something like that if I couldn't prove my innocence.

[mith]

FOS: mith for the Electra suspicion (and because I'm just like a rabid puppy ). Come on, we've been over this before. Would the mafia be given two players with the same exact ability? No way.

Actually, I wasn't thinking she was Mafia, I was thinking she might be another SK. But as I said, it's just a tiny thing, and she certainly wasn't my top suspect. Obviously I wasn't accusing her of being Mafia, she's given us two of them and the spy. And there's not really enough players left for a second Mafia.

I agree on Quail; would like to hear from SK obviously, but I'm not inclined to vote for her right now.

[mith]

Fair enough. Certainly believeable.

Now I'll have to go look through the thread and see who sticks out. Blah.

[mith]

Good catch Cadmium. I still suspect others, but I guess this is as good a lead as any.

Will give SK a chance to post first, though.

[mith]

Go right ahead.

What on earth is slimey about "I'll let SK post first"? Last I checked, the idea was to get information rather than quickly lynching?

Or about agreeing with Cadmium that it doesn't make much sense for the more famous Egyptian would be just a townie, while the other would have a one-shot ability that is already claimed as a game-long ability by someone else?

Now that I think about it some more, though, I find it interesting that most all of our dead townie roles are one-time shots, and we've currently got four or five game-long claims.

Basically:

Blah blah blah, you always suspect me, and you're never right. And in this case, I've been cleared by the very cop that you're giving me FOSs about, merely for thinking she *might* be bad, since this is a DP game and has been fair too easy. Focusing on me is pointless.

[mith]

Interesting you'd pick that as the first thing on which to focus.

Well it *was* the last thing I said...

I find you just generally no help this game. You sometimes kind of pat people on the back and say "good catch" and every once in a while say things like "I forget" or "I'll reread, bleh."

*~shrug~* There's not much I can do about you thinking that. I *have* been very busy, with a new job and being ill and various other things. But please, no help? I've put all sorts of ideas out, and all I get is stuff like "Come on, we've been over this before." No, we hadn't been over it before. Is it that far-fethced for there to possibly be another powerful SK role? I certainly wasn't going to vote for her, but you guys are just acting like sheep following her around; it's just too easy for a DP game if there's not a trick somewhere. Obviously there are other possibilities (Mother Teresa as Godmother, for example), but we do need to at least consider everything instead of just blowing it off because she's *obviously* good.

If you had been under scrutiny at the time, I could understand you saying "hey -- I'm after scum here..." but why demand attention as a master hunter when there was no one was even looking in your direction at the time? Looked like you were possibly getting something on record to use later on.

Actually, I just found it extremely bizarre that I had been after Leo every day, while you had actually *defended him* at first, and I got ignored. I'm used to people (read: you) attacking me, not getting completely ignored. 'sides, I like ranting.

Yeah. Where are the other night kills if she's an SK?

How many did Leo have? 1? We've had *five* separate methods of death, and we're only sure what 3 of them are. But based on what Leo's role was, I would think that a bad role that could choose to investigate or kill would be very interesting and could certainly have gotten into DP's head.

Again, I never said she was my number one suspect, but I don't think *anyone* is confirmed, here, no matter how many Mafia they've caught.

You've said you're able to prove your role...I hope it's not just that your name says it all -- 'cause that's just a name, not a role.

I can verify my ability, which will match up with my role name in a common sense way. I see no reason to do so right now, though. So far your case against me is "Waah, mith is thinking things I don't agree with, how completely out of place this is, I must whine about it."

[mith]

Hm, so now CB is claiming role blocker? That makes three, all a little different. I suppose at least CB's and d8P's fit with their names.

*~goes off to think some more~*

[mith]

4, then. Thank you for once again being completely anal and ignoring my actual points.

[mith]

That was part of it, and there's still one we aren't sure of, but my actual point (see how there's another sentence to that paragraph, with a "but" at the beginning, signifying a transition to something else?) was "just because we haven't seen a kill from her doesn't mean she can't". The "we aren't sure what these kills are" thing was just a small bit of support, which admittedly isn't that impressive now that you've reminded me that there are actually 4 we're sure of (I had poison associated with Cleopatra, who turned out to be not the poisoner, forgot about Borgia).

I still continue to think everyone is a suspect until I've got actual proof. I've given other suspects than Electra (I believe I mentioned Quailman and Cadmium, which I find ironic, and you may too if you've figured something out). Right now, I think jeep is most suspicious for various reasons already mentioned (two other role blocker claims, odd role name based on the rest of the game, he's unchecked (by Electra, ooh, mith relied on the investigations of someone he has suspicions for. of course I do, she would be foolish to lie about the role names for people she checked, she'd get caught too easily that way). Yet you say I'm unhelpful and harp on how I think of the mere possibility that there might be something more to Electra.

Oh well, I'm used to you being wrong about me.

[mith]

Yeah, that isn't proof at all. I do hope you're right, but it's still a possibility. *~shrug~* You're quite welcome to be fairly sure of anything you like.

[mith]

Not quite, CB. I also know who I am, and I have a pretty good idea that you are not one of the other ones, so it's pretty safe to assume you are the third.

Shall we just go ahead and out ourselves? I don't know that it would hurt anything.

My guess right now, after getting a little bit of sleep last night, is that the two scum left will come from jeep/Mother Teresa, and MeMe/SK. I'm still wondering why we would have two unlimited role blockers though. Definitely leaning toward SK right now just because she hasn't posted *still*. Perhaps Electra should check jeep tonight instead of Quail?

More off-the-wall theories; what if one of the role blockers does exactly what he says, but works for the Mafia? With all these townie abilities, that might be useful to them, and not overly powerful. Then we'd have three Mafia, each with a different kill method, and a spy and blocker.

[mith]

Alrighty.

I'm Flo-Jo. I have a one-time immunity to kills (I run away). Not the same as Sketch's, I don't pick a night, just if someone tries to kill me, I run away and don't get killed that night. Not saying whether it has been used or not, for obvious reasons. Flo-Jo wouldn't be Godmother, so if MeMe wants to try killing me with d8P blocking, that's fine I guess (if you guys think he might be the Godmother and thus get away with MeMe being told he can't be killed or whatever). Would be annoyed if d8P is lying though, so find a better target.

Based on CB's comments about Mother Teresa, I would guess that makes him Enya, and d8P's idea on how that matches up is as good as any I've come up with. Do we know whether DP really hates Enya or anything?

And that leaves Cadmium as Mother Teresa.

[mith]

I know what the plan is, and was going to vote for jeep myself, I'm just starting to wonder if we should try SK first.

[mith]

It strikes me as a very nice ability for a Godmother to have to be able to prevent lynches... add that to the mother thing and the italian-catholic connection, and I'm still leaning toward Cadmium as Godmother.

(And I agree with MeMe's analysis of the situation; perhaps Cadmium didn't say anything because as long as Leo was alive, he was a "confirmed" innocent?)

That said, I'll think some more about it when I get home, and possibly vote jeep.

Oh, and

If SK is awake tomorrow, we lynch d8p. If she's asleep and there was no kill, we'll lynch her.

I think you have that backwards? If SK is awake, we know you got blocked or you're lying, so we certainly don't lynch d8P. If she's asleep, we know d8P is lying, so we lynch him.

If jeep doesn't get lynched, I suggest MeMe kill him and SK kill Cadmium.

And... more later, home in about 40 minutes.

[mith]

That's why I didn't suggest it the other way around; you guys might not be able to kill Cadmium anyway, if he's actually Godmother.

[mith]

Alright, totally can't remember what else I was going to say. Had a meeting with a parent that lasted way longer than I thought it would.

I think the decision is that we try to lynch jeep and then Electra will check Quail, if jeep is Mafia MeMe will kill Cadmium, if not she won't kill, SK won't try to kill, but CB will try his ability on her and d8P will block CB. And I'll sit around looking pretty.

I'll give SK a little more time, and vote tonight.

[mith]

Might as well, I suppose.

I think if jeep is innocent, we're better off not killing yet and letting Electra get some info on Quail, because we'll know *something* screwy is going on, and we're almost out of time. We can always get a Vig kill in the next night, if you and SK are both innocent. Whereas if we have jeep as Mafia dead, we've got a little more room to work with.

[mith]

I don't think it blows up. If there is a Mafia role blocker, it's pretty much got to be one of the three already claimed as role blockers. If d8P doesn't go with the plan tonight, we catch him; we can do the same plan in reverse tomorrow night. It doesn't prove they're innocent necessarily, but it keeps them from being able to screw anything else up, right?

[mith]

Well, I want to wait just a minute so I can rip Cadmium a bit.

[mith]

CaptainBlicero's claim is partly proven by Saberkitty's disability to post yesterday.

The mechanic, yes, and no one is disputing that.

If CaptainBlicero is telling the truth, it makes d8P's claim less believable. It would mean there have to be three blockers in the game.

*If* jeep is telling the truth. If jeep is not telling the truth, then your case breaks up right there. Note that the plan is only to kill you if jeep is Mafia.

If you look at all the claimed pro-town role descriptions, d8P's is the far most powerfull one of them all. A little too powerfull compared to the others. He can block (nothing wrong here) but he will also be told whether someone was planning to go out (which normally is the only ability someone has).

More powerful than CB's?? Or yours, for that matter. Being told someone was going to go out doesn't tell all that much, really.

Also, if CaptainBlicero is telling the truth, Saberkitty cannot be responsible for the "bullet" kills (and neither can Leo by stealing her role). So it has to be someone else.

What if Leo stole her ability? We know he didn't get yours the day he was lynched, is that the same day that CB blocked SK? I'm not sure if Leo would get blocked as well, though.

d8P's role could be responsible for the "bullet" kills by sending the army. This makes sense, since DP used the words "many many bullets".

Yes, possible.

Leo tried to get d8P lynched. If we would have lynched him and found out he was innocent, we would have known for sure that Leo was scum. Something he didn't want to happen for sure. I think he stole d8P's ability and found out he was mafia. He probably tried to give a mafia member to us in order to let his claim become more believable.

Unlikely. Leo stole the ability of people in the game, and no one has had that ability or claimed it, have they? Besides, he was stealing your ability most of the game.

And finally, there's the inconsistency between MeMe's and d8P's choices on night 2 and 3. MeMe claims to have not gone out and d8P claims that she was putting makeup on.

I think this was answered, but I'm unsure. MeMe isn't voting for him though, so...

A very nice ability? First, I get blamed for not noticing the "way overbalanced for the town" crap (and obviously you agree), and now you're saying there could be a Godmother with the ability to prevent lynches? Talk about way overbalanced.

No, I never said you had that ability in addition to the other normal Godfather/mother abilities. You could be called "Godmother" and have different abilities from normal Godmothers (well, there aren't really Godmothers normally, so they could certainly have a different ability). Even if you had all three abilities, it wouldn't be *that* powerful, considering Leo and the pro-town roles. Again, uber-powerful makes things unlikely to be *townies*, not scum.

Almost noone believed Leo. So what good would it do me to be pointed out as a "confirmed" innocent by someone who noone trusts? Oh, and in case someone didn't get this, Leo only claimed to have investigated me in order to prevent my lynch so he could keep on stealing my ability.

Sure, but as long as Leo stayed alive, there was no way we'd lynch you. Leo *might* have been telling the truth, and then you'd be innocent for sure. The fact that you didn't come forward with how Leo was surviving when it was pretty clear he was scum makes you look less than good.

Look, it's obvious I'm not lying about my ability. Noone else has claimed it and it has to be in the game since Leo survived lynches and didn't have this ability himself. He did have a stealing ability so I'm certainly not lying about my role. So the only remaining question is, am I good or bad? I understand the connection between Mother Teresa and Godmother. But seriously, Mother Teresa? Killing at night? I don't think so. She's a saint for crying out loud.

That is, indeed, the only question. No one is disputing your ability. And I'm not necessarily accusing MT of actually killing, she may just protect the Mafia because she believes they can redeem themselves or whatever other plot device you want to throw in there.

SK, talk. Or someone replace SK. Then I'll be voting for jeep.

[mith]

Because if Quailman is not who he says he is, then we will know it after tonight, one way or another (or, if d8P is Mafia role blocker, we'll know that), I think, and I think we are all agreed that if he *is* who he says he is, then he is innocent. It's senseless to kill a doc when we can check him so easily.

[mith]

I, too, would like to see some night choices.

I am gone this weekend, but may post anyway. If not, don't do anything until Sunday evening.

[mith]

Well, I think I can help clear MeMe, at least a little bit. Someone attacked me last night. Since we have a kill from MeMe already, it wasn't her, unless she has some two-kill once a game thing. Which means there is another killer. It also can't be CB I think, since he was either blocked by d8P or d8P was lying and he's bad.

So, if CB *did* make a choice, then that also helps clear d8P a bit; again, only if the Mafia can only do one thing at a time. What do we think about that?

So, current main suspect for me is SK.

More sometime.

[mith]

I agree that d8P is most suspicious, if CB screwed up last night. I certainly don't think there are two Mafia left, and so MeMe is not at all high on my list. 5 scum and a spy is a bit much; if they'd gotten Electra early, we'd have been screwed. However, if d8P is scum and role blocks (doesn't kill), then SK is next.

I'd like SK to be replaced or speak up before we lynch, as usual.

[mith]

Good game, everyone.

Maybe some day you'll be right about me, MeMe.

[mith]

(I still don't understand why noone really cared for the inconsistencies in MeMe's and d8P's night choices ).

Well, *I* figured that if there was something there, MeMe would've gone after d8P more, but she kept picking on me instead.

I think it's interesting that d8P would've been better off not even trying to kill. By choosing me, he effectively cleared MeMe and CB, while not killing would've left us wondering (as some did anyway) whether MeMe might actually be Mafia, and CB would've looked very suspicious for messing up his own plan.

He couldn't have known that going into night, of course, but it's still amusing. This is just a lesson to all you Mafia scum out there, don't mess with mith.