My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Mafia (Game Over)

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oh my goodness we're here

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you all have no idea how happy it would make me if we can kill off penguinpower before the end of page one.

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is anyone else watching nxt takeover tonight? it's my first time watching a wrestling event live (live as it airs, not in person)

I would really appreciate it if you didn't make posts like this; they clog up page one and leave fewer available posts on it to wagon penguin with.

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VOTE: zoraster

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Please don’t make me kill you with kindness, implosion!

you don't know how happy this would make me

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zor lurking~~~~~~~

~~~~

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a new personal best!

reck is feeling the love

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FoS: GiF

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VOTE: baezu

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this entire zor/worst discussion is incredibly, incredibly silly. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. All of you.

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I really don't think scumreading zor is sensible at this point.

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how serious are you being right now

https://www.youtube.com/embed/1pgLaV0o0AE?start=5&end=9

bins you have to stop worrying and just blindly wagon

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hot take beezus is scum but so is implosion

or penguin power, the signals are crossing

this is also really silly when reck is the only scum on the wagon.

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can you please phrase your question in a form that can be answered by me repeating the same link

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bins/ep/zor/pp/worst/gif are all town (latter two more weakly)

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really i probably shouldn't actually call gif town but 37 was really good

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neither tbh

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it's because we're both town and both bad and there are 2 scum on the list!

i hope it's pp and zor

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Don't have strong feelings on jay.

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don't really feel like explaining the townreads atm.

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high intensity gameplay is for scrubs :>

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Baezu wagon is still better than elsa wagon. That's not to say the elsa wagon is awful but it's kind of vapid.

Did anything that actually matters happen yesterday?

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Reads list felt somewhat like a list for the sake of having a list; 232 is really bad in many dimensions; some other things here and there but that's where i'm at atm on her.

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She calls that post from zor anti-town in her reads list, then says she's getting scummy vibes from him, then talks about not seeing content in any of his posts. Feels like scum who thinks that a scumread on zor is easy to justify and is going for it bc of that.

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Other things I've gotten from skimming are I like zito and I am not as strong on the worst being town.

at the very least I kind of want to say I don't think zor/reck is s/s which is kind of helping me contextually because I don't have a very strong read on either of them

This feels really weird of an entire point to make.

The way he's talking about his self meta feels weird as well, and self meta isn't something I'm usually strong on being suspicious.

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it's not wishy washy at all! Quite the opposite! I'm not sure why you're describing it as such when you've been pretty solidly calling zor scum.

The issue is it's calling him scum for a bunch of reasons that aren't coherent together, as though actively looking for reasons to be scumreading him rather than actually trying to sort him

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y'know, with this player list i was expecting a nice, calming spamfest.

What has happened to this site

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bins, if the baezu wagon weren't a thing, there'd be like a 50/50 chance i'd join the elsa wagon depending on whims.

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anyone think I should have a firmer read on any of these 7? I don't feel fantastic about my town tiers either tbh

i appreciate that you counted this as 7 people, presumably because you counted the word "leaves" as one of the people in the list

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Not reading whatever GiF wrote, but he's more scummy for it.

please tell me this is a joke

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it's kind of cute funny, smile worthy, but yes it's a slightly wolfy response

justify.

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I didn't read it either. but i'm pretty sold on it being a town post.

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only in that I consider active lurking wolfy

this is kinda... really, really surface-level.

There's a hell of a difference between generically active lurking and that post. And what gif has done in general. If he never contributes anything then sure, but we're like 3 days in? I really doubt that scum does that sort of cheese-tactic in this game. Especially with how he's basically entirely spent the game memeing.

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i mean i basically said it all in 434, i don't think he memes through the game this way as scum. throw in some copies of the word "tone" if you like as well.

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if it's such a surface-level take, then why is it worth giving?

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life is just so simple if baezu is scum.

Am i treating this like a big deal? i don't feel i am. I'm skeptical of you right now. I feel like it's pretty clear that me calling it surface-level is calling it scummy. Feels like you're just echoing what penguin said for the sake of saying things.

His elsa vote is fine. His maria vote is fine. I think that style of vote hop is generally fairly townish. There's really nothing in his iso that looks scummy imo. This isn't like, a super strong read, to be clear.

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think maria, tbone, reck are the top people i want to sort atm.

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think maria, tbone, reck are the top people i want to sort atm.

re Reck what did you think of Zito's comments around him mediating the zor/me thing sod1?

i did not because i didn't read it but now i did and it's a pretty good take actually.

his posts this page are pretty good too.

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my Person That I Don't Understand Those Townreads On, to complement whoever said that about gif, is slappo.

the people I don't want to vote are bins, ep, penguin, zoraster, gif, zito, reck. At least kinda in that order. worst is probably also town but i'm not going to call him town for a while so as to build suspense. realistically elsa is also probably town but you didn't hear me say that

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i think that implosion has been townposting but i'm highkey paranoid about him and i also feel like he's been ignoring me while also just plopping me down as a strong (?) town read

do you think you oughtn't be strongly townread?

I almost feel like Implosion is roleplaying, lol. He sounds sort of fake and the confidence he has seems insincere. But I also don't think this is an angle he would play up as scum. I don't "trust", Implo, rn. I'm paranoid of him the same way I'm paranoid of EP (I think I'm more confident on EP town, though).

i'm kinda just bumbling along~

I do actually feel good about my reads for a d1 right now. I feel like if there are faults in my townreads they're going to work themselves out relatively easily over time. I think EP/PP are people that I can trust myself to read and that you're really obvious town, which gives a nice kernel to solve from. I also think this is a game where it's going to be pretty easy for people to collectively sort each other as time goes on.

Regarding you townreading every skittle: do you feel like the reasons you have for each of {maria, tbone, skrew} are actually good reasons? or are they just the kind of d1 "i'll deal with actually feeling good about sorting this later" deal?

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i liked you asking how you can be helpful as a response to the way that i had approached you. 460/461 is also gut townish.

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See to me this feels like you’re faking all those townreads because I have a townread on 2 people? One of them isn’t even that strong. I don’t think a lot of people are town telling at the moment so when you come out here with a lot of these townreads and then go ‘I don’t want to explain them.’ to me that’s just weird.

I'm sorry that you're not as good as me at finding town

This is just such a weird take. Like, you're having trouble finding townreads so everyone else must too??? I feel like this is a pretty easy game to find town in. Like sure I didn't explain them but it's kind of one-dimensional to jump from "implosion isn't explaining his townreads 24 hours after the game started" to "implosion is making up his reads".

A big reason for sring Implo is his townreads that he hasn't explained (but feels really good on!) yes. But it's also his vote on Bae. He flip flops on the Elsa wagon saying it's a fine wagon but then calls Elsa town. Alright, so where's the read development after that? Doesn't exist.

i actually have no idea what you mean here wrt elsa.

If he wants to sort me tbone and reck where are the questions? Cause I don't see any. Zor/Reck are also really interesting people to tr considering they want each other dead and Implo isn't stopping it. His whole late game posting just feels fake to me. It's little bits and pieces that slowly just add up.

Plenty of ways to sort people other than questions. Literally sorted reck by saying that line and looking at his reaction to it.

Literally no idea what you're talking about wrt zor/reck and why would i care if they want each other dead if neither of them is under any pressure whatsoever.

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3) Iso Bae/Elsa/The worst you’ll get a good idea of the game state and who’s the lynch options (in my eyes rn at least)

why is the worst in this list? why am i not in this list if i'm (presumably) your biggest scumread?

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Ugh...forgot it was a wall.

Did you read post 529, subsection (4), subset (c).

the thing i quoted 3 posts above this?

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Ugh...forgot it was a wall.

Did you read post 529, subsection (4), subset (c).

the thing i quoted 3 posts above this?

Kinda my point because your response was such that I didn't think you read it.

idrgitbh

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i feel like this avatar makes all of my posts automatically frumpy.

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ur gonna have to hold my hand, pingpong

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tbone what exactly are you actually doing and would you care to do something else

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does the worst always act this way btw?

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he seems really quick to agree with things.

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pengo pengo pengo.

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the direction that those moves are in!
what else would it be!

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You seem to have mentioned baezu zero times in this game. What's your take there?

(@tbone)

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for real am i misunderstanding? What is the town reason he would be paranoid about that? If I saw anything like "Friendship is Mafia" I understand how I could see that and go "oh crap, is this the mafia thread or the real one?" but I don't understand as town how I do that. What am I missing, for real. And no, it wasn't that I thought he was posturing.

I'm just so skeptical that this line of reasoning + the way zor's played this game together is coming from scum.

How the hell does zoraster of all people, the admin who hasn't played mafia on ms in O(years), enter a game as scum and think it's a good idea to make this argument? How does he even think to make this argument in the first place?

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baezu's recent posts include her saying she was going to catch up... then calling a single post of mine wishy-washy... then calling the wagon on herself all-town and asking people to join her rvs vote.

that is the scummy kind of lurking. the kind where scum is trying to say things that sound like they're actual original thoughts and are keeping up, not the kind where town realizes they aren't completely in the game and is trying to keep up.

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Who cares about that post? Have you looked at the others?

i have, and i see a portrait of a man who does not give a damn

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Who cares about that post? Have you looked at the others?

i have, and i see a portrait of a

pony

who does not give a damn

ftfy

i'm excited to see what gif zoraster will respond to this post with

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1) because there's an l-3 wagon on her that would really love to be at l-0
2) who else?

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(and if you say zor then lol)

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i'm not really trying to convince you per se, tbone.

I am applying the same standard; you're just conflating very different play from very different players as being identical when it isn't. Maria's lurking was just that, lurking; there was no pretense of content (i'm skeptical of her for other reasons though bc her catchup is pretty bad even if just for the read on me). Gif and zor are bad examples because IMO there are other reasons to townread them, even if they have sort of been half-contributing in terms of actual content (and even then, in a very materially different way than baezu).

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Like, just this.

GIF has promised to not deliver any content, is just posting for the sake of it, and you haven't batted an eye.

This is entirely different from what baezu is doing; she DID promise to deliver content, and that's the whole point.

Understand?

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if beeza is scum, is the wagon on her then all not town

correct; baezu is scum, and everyone on her wagon is also scum

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Then explain them???

i've done this for like all of them by now

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maria 90% of your argument against me is you saying "I play town this way, and implosion is not playing this game that way"
are you familiar with the concept of mafia playstyles

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like take the elsa wagon; i think he's probably town but that's a VERY weak probably and i don't think the wagon on him was bad as a wagon, per se. you're just stripping any potential nuance and saying "implosion called him town, logically he must then analyze the wagon to find scum on it" which isn't even necessarily a good idea in the first place

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you lurked for like 3 days sue me

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i feel like i've made that point on zor pretty clear.

I really, really don't think he would even come up with that angle to approach the game if he's scum. For him to make that post, he'd have had to come up with the idea to accuse the worst of scumslipping in that way, and then decide that accusing him in that way is a good idea. I think both of those steps are individually very unlikely to happen in a world where zor is scum.

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if you want me to rigorously justify literally every single fucking sentence i say i can but i really don't want to do that. and i'll refer you to tbone's "this is a really random standard to be applying to this one person in particular" argument.

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hey implosion i got this nice wagon on baezu wanna sheep me

rude

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don't make me vote you, zoraster

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[bold]ride into sunset on pony[/not actually bold]

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Ketchup is red
scum is red
Baelzu is scum

Ketchup is red
blood is red
Baelzu is scum

Ketchup is tomato
Tomato is Italy
Bealzu is scum


^ definitive proof let's get this shit going

bless this post for it is sacred

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idk these two pages just leave a bad taste.

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baezu's ate doesn't specifically look fake imo but it's not really townish.

Baezu, why are you saying you're guaranteed to be the lynch tomorrow if you live through the night? Isn't that just inviting scum to not kill you tonight for a free mislynch tomorrow?

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i feel like i've made that point on zor pretty clear.

I really, really don't think he would even come up with that angle to approach the game if he's scum. For him to make that post, he'd have had to come up with the idea to accuse the worst of scumslipping in that way, and then decide that accusing him in that way is a good idea. I think both of those steps are individually very unlikely to happen in a world where zor is scum.

I don't really have words to explain how I feel about MariaR quite yet But I feel something

was this comment intended to be made in response to a different quote?

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Why would scum let a doc save someone only to mislynch tomorrow?

i don't fully understand how this is a question.

mislynches are how the mafia win the game.

doctors have to predict who the mafia are going to kill in order to save them.

????

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ooooooh i have two banners sick

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if we're speedwagoning bins i am ALWAYS down for that regardless of how she's playing

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doc on me

i called it first

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also what???

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reck is town because of meta and only because of meta if it weren't for meta he'd be scum here imo imho

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actually her entire reaction to being L-1'd is gr8

justify this one please

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hrrrm

if we're dismantling this we aren't remantling on bins i think

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I don't know how anyone likes that claim. I get made when I'm lynched as town too, but I don't get that snappy after claiming doctor. Like gee.

two shot doctor is a very specific thing to claim and also don't know why baezu-scum would come back and put the modifier on it after the fact and also lines up with how i know UT likes to design games bc ive designed a shitload with him and x-shots are in like every game

idk seems like a big coincidental lucky swing for scum to make in the claim dept

this is actually a pretty interesting post

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VOTE: elsa jay

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oops i misspelled xreckonerx sorry about that

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don't need a remantling - why do you think bins is out of the question?

the way she's interacted with the thread all game, mostly

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okay pedit: what the fuck is going on rn?

refer to post 830 for a comprehensive summary

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don't need a remantling - why do you think bins is out of the question?

the way she's interacted with the thread all game, mostly

I think you're town but that's kinda vague...

it is and i can be more specific but i think she's just obvtown lol

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like, little things all game like 148. You have to be a REALLY good scum player to be that consistent about that kind of stuff.

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reck i just sheeped you help me out here i'm not doing it again

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the only like, material risk to leaving baezu alive is that she's a strong scum pr of some sort. but eh. w/e.

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yeah but you sheeped me for what was a bad reason

p.edit: oh alchemist is in this game??

if wanton wagoning is a bad reason then i don't want to live on this planet anymore

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reck i just sheeped you help me out here i'm not doing it again

What in the fuck when I wanted to vote Elsa where were you??

baezu was definitely scum then!

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VOTE: Alchemist

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is it bad that every vote i've laid this game after zor was on a non-skittle?

probably. but what are YOU gonna do about it

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why are yOU VOTING ELSA what the fuck dude what is happening

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:')

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who is this incompetent mod that hasn't done a votecount on this page yet

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implosion what i dont understand is that you posted after the claim, clearly must have seen it in p-edits, but didn't comment on it until like 2 pages later

i didn't really feel the need to say anything on it at the time. i then got distracted bc i'm at work

i don't actually have anything interesting to say about voting alch i just kind of did it

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alch and worst are definitely both people of interest -- certain things of both of theirs in my working memory that made me suspicious as well as certain towny things

im voting worst because i think he's more of a presence in this game + i have more working knowledge of him. i think his voting patterns are weird in a way that i havent been able to sort yet. i've engaged with him a lot but still dont think he's contributed anything particularly unique or memorable. i also thought that a naked vanity vote on worst would make more of a splash on the consciousness of the general public which i wanted to do now that the scope of discussion has been blown back open by baezu claim

this is a nice post.

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Town- alch, implo, Elsa, Maria, zito, reck, tbone, worst
Null- penguin, sleepy, zor, gif
Scum- bins, EP

this is, from my perspective, just about as hot of a hot take as you can get

in the sense of i wholeheartedly disagree with the entire thing

but it isn't scummy.

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i'm kind of tempted to vote tw but i feel beholden to my Alchemist shareholders now.

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See Zito dab.
Zito dabs lit.
Dab Zito, dab!

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Alchemist's iso is really entirely bland and I'm curious for those people that I remember mentioning having townread him if those reasons are actually solid. It all just looks like very default content that is very easy to do, a token unpopular opinion here or there.

I'll just ignore tw-scum as a possibility for now I guess bc bins is making me.

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it's okay bins i know what you mean

just know that if he is scum and wins i will blame you!

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Where are you considering laying your vote atm?

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"Perhaps physically, but perhaps not psychologically.

It's a very interesting question.

What does it mean for a day to "open"?

What even is a day?

Are days just a peripheral facet of human consciousness and understanding of time?

Is time just a construct of human perception?

An illusion created by -"



--- implosion

you know it's against the rules to quote from a scumtopic
and by this, i mean a masonry topic
please don't ban me for this ut it isn't actually quoted from any private topic just to be clear bins has broken no rules with this post to my knowledge

VOTE: Implo

so boring.

have we actually played a game together before? i feel like we must have but i can't think of any.

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also that fails to answer my question bins : )

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where's the wagon-happy town i remember from 15 pages ago? Join us, we have me and multiple different types of bird, one of whom is Patently Obvious Town according to himself. Actually both of whom are that.

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i was just looking to see if there were any others i could appeal to directly but i think it's just you two?

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yeah i'm talking to all of the other people in the game
also bins
shade

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reck, why'd you call alch strong town earlier?

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(and what do you think of his posting since then)

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That post of mine was, in fact, a joke.

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Still feel pretty eh on zor flipping scum. It's a weird angle for sure. Idk what his real motivation is to go for it if he's scum.

My (fairly weak) poe list right now is alch/maria/tbone/skrew/elsa. I have some amount of townread on everyone else, though i can be swayed. Happy to explain them at this point if desired. Happy to vote anyone in that poe.

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it's almost like there were interesting things happening then.

i just feel like this has to be wrong, one of my main townreads is wrong. UGH

your problem is that you're half-assedly calling a bunch of people town, and then thinking that you called them town not half-assedly.

VOTE: Maria

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@anyone scumreading Maria
why?

the early part of her push on me was bad. The way she's approached the push since then comprises a really convenient way to play as scum; the trope of having a main scumread to go back to but being able to wantonly wagon whenever you feel like it. And the way she was scumreading me doesn't feel legitimate to me given we haven't actually played together before. I still maintain she was assuming a bunch of things about how the game ought to be played and foisting them onto the way i was playing and I think it's kinda just BS.

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My (fairly weak) poe list right now is alch/maria/tbone/skrew/elsa.

I don't think this is nitpicking but. What made this poe weak? You said you were feeling good about your townreads a bit ago and none of your townreads are in your poe so. Also weren't you calling Elsa town? What caused that to change? I assume you don't like alchs recent posting. Why is T-bone in your list? I don't think I would lynch anyone in your list right now.

it's a really big pool of townreads.

I wasn't calling elsa town for any real reason other than staring to think the wagon on him made more sense if he was town.

Why shouldn't t-bone be in my list.

If there's a townread i'm wrong on it's probably tw, maybe gif or zor. I still kinda feel like tw might just be scum. i think pretty much everyone else driving the game has been really town.

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i like zito / zor / reck as an skittles town core actually? i think it should also be mentioned that i stopped thinking about this game almost entirely for several days-- before that i think i was much more happy with implosion and bins and wary of zito and reck
now reading it's basically swapped and i think the only thing that happened was the passage of time so
shrug

so, hear me out
what if every person you list in this post is town?

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who's the scumteam

you shouldn't need to ask this if you're reading my posts!

3 people from my poe pool, possibly with the exceptions i mentioned as being more likely.

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I'm a vt. I really doubt life is as simple as maria+alch are scum pushing my wagon but it really feels like there's no resistance to it. It wouldn't surprise me if there's 2 scum on it even if it isn't those two. Including the worst especially. Reck is probably the most locktown person on the wagon.

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well, penguin scum would also still surprise me a lot. EP or zor could be scum. EP's jump on me is pretty ass.

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this is bemusing.

@EP: the vote-unvote-vote thing and the fact that you said you thought zor's reasoning was convincing, then said it wasn't, then basically cited it as a reason to vote me feel kind of like the way you'd fake paranoia of me. Honestly i feel like town you shouldn't have enough paranoia of me this game to vote me, either. I feel like historically the way this has gone when we're both town (face to face or on forum) is that you have a baseline Level of Paranoia of me that you ultimately just always ignore.

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Why do you think worst is scum, imp

the answer to this was that i didn't really think he was scum, i just didn't think he should be out of poe.

the updated answer is that he literally claimed it

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of a {Elsa, zor, implo} PoE I want implo the least and think I'm just shooting into the people I don't know how to approach reading

why is maria not an option you're the one with power now!

i'll vote elsa but.

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also

@UT

it should still be 8 votes to hug someone to death unless some odd mechanics are at play

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If the worst flips town and I die, please lynch elsa today.

Thanks.

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okay just to be clear that isn't what the post said

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LHFish

Lovely Horrible Fishish?

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i feel better about tbone now actually.

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Sorry not claim....claim

S

. Very consistent in not believing the claim

s

.

how does day vig make the doc claim townier? I think she's been playing very town since the claim but what

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why the fuck is that post quoted

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i literally have no idea how i quoted your post in that post i think i must have accidentally hit multiquote on it at some point? idk. was intending to just ask that to bins

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anyone have a read on Baezu's reaction to the despy shot? she was soft scumcasing me before it fired

To elaborate on baezu being town now more broadly.

854 is still a really good point. The mod meta is maybe valid, but also there isn't really much reason for her to claim doc and then amend the claim as 2-shot as scum; if she's a scum 2-shot doc she'd almost certainly claim the whole thing and if she's fakeclaiming then it's a really awkward thing to do to add to the claim in that way. Penguin mentioned 986 as a townpost and i agree with that since it'd take a pretty out-of-the-way process to fake being emotionally drained in that way. 1026 being her next post looks good too imo. And her reads are somewhat unlikely manufactured the more I think about it; her list was really weird and against the grain at the time and they've been evolving.

I don't really read strongly into the reaction to the dayvig.

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okay so i may have answered that for her but i'm sure she has reasons too

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ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i know, right

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"trying to pocket bins"
woe is me for giving a townread

"casually dismiss her posts"
woe is me for describing why her arguments against me are wrong; like, 551 and the other responses I've given to her points are hardly casual.

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Also weren't you the head of the Bins Is Scum club like, five minutes ago? Where is this "implosion is scum because bins caught him pocketing her" coming from?

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idk even with this it feels like the game started moving so slowly

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it would be absolutely excellent if gif+sk+baezu could weigh in on the current state of affairs.

Who are the 1.5 people on the maria wagon, tbone?

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get fucked, zito

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I've actually developed a kernel of paranoia about bins, but I don't think she's worth thinking about as scum at least for a long time.

I agree with the rest of that. I also think baezu should be basically first-class town. Zito and reck are also good town takes, and t-bone is continuing to be townier than he was in the early game.

actually now that i look at the rest of the player list i really like that list as a core for now. The only person i'd maybe add is ep. i think their weirdness around me is not actually a good reason to discount the way they've overall approached the game being basically precisely their town game.

pedit this only applies to the pagetop post

[implosion]

i still don't really understand how anyone townreads maria here.

[implosion]

i think 1515/1517 is the ep-town reaction to the current gamestate. I don't think i've actually seen ep scum online but i'd expect the way that they interact with the game to just be somewhat awkward? I liked the way they talked about their reads earlier, e.g. 1206. I like the tone of their early posting. I agree everyone you listed except possibly tbone is townier than ep at this point.

[implosion]

she really hasn't been snoozing the rest of the day. She's ~5th in postcount, and only like 20% of that is from before her claim.

[implosion]

no, guyinfreezer is #1 in content

[implosion]

you're closer to 12 or 13 in content it's okay you'll be fine

[implosion]

i do want to hear what ep's current takes are as well.

[implosion]

Looking more at alch, my big issue with him recently is he seems to be playing in such a way that his thought process is heavily obfuscated.

e.g. 1441, where when asked why he thinks i should be the lynch, he cites "a lot of people" thinking i've been manipulative, and then cites those people without giving any original thoughts of his own.
e.g. 1447, where I asked him about his change on bins, and he mentions that his discussion with bins made him stop leaning towards her but that discussion was presumably 918, and he mentioned thinking bins was still his primary suspect more recently than that and i really have no idea if he's town where his thought process on the two of us is coming from. It seems like he's just picking someone to be the person that he wants to push out of convenience.

[implosion]

Implosion keeps trying to shoot down my push on him.

yes
only scum want to do this, absolutely

[implosion]

the me pocketing bins point being original is fair.

I still don't see how alch's read progression of not feeling strongly on me and calling bins scum -> me voting him -> him starting to express skepticism of me, calling me a 2nd choice behind bins -> a wagon forms on me -> he votes me, and then calls me "still the best way to go" (despite not ever saying that he thought i was a better choice than bins before this)

i don't see how any of that is anything other than scum doing whatever is convenient. Like, especially abandoning his bins scumread (or at least saying he isn't leaning towards her anymore) at the last step is just so convenient, especially since the thing that he's claiming to have abandoned it based on happened *before* he said that bins was his 1st choice and i was his 2nd choice (unless i'm misinterpreting that, but i'm pretty sure that's what he was referring to).

[implosion]

that said, if he + maria are both scum what he's doing right now is pretty bold.

[implosion]

bins has some really good points in these pages. Particularly, maria dismissing the gamestate as more or less "the wagon on me has the scum, the wagon on implo is all town, -shrug-" and the fact that it doesn't make sense for maria to do this weird fake read towards bins contextually. Like if i'm town and i'm being run up my first instinct is usually not "hm, let me fake a scumread on someone that a bunch of people are calling town then retract it in two pages for reactions". The way in which maria is acting defeatist is scummy; defeatism in general isn't necessarily scummy (see: baezu's run up), but she's simultaneously saying she's not expecting to live long as town while doing this really kind of half-assed sorting method.

I thought her pivoting pressure onto bins+zito was a weird thing to do if she's scum initially but it makes sense in the context of scum thinking they're likely going down and trying to just do something to relieve the wagon pressure.

i think the takeaway here is that bins is absolutely definitely 800% bussing maria and we're lynching maria first and when she flips scum we go for bins.

[implosion]

i think the takeaway here is that bins is absolutely definitely 800% bussing maria and we're lynching maria first and when she flips scum we go for bins.

Listen to Implosion.

[implosion]

the joke bins was you were supposed to react to that and then i was going to say it was a reaction test

i had it all planned out!

[implosion]

i choose to interpret this as we're lynching zito despite him being clearly town.

[implosion]

and yeah i'm a little bit baffled right now

[implosion]

i really feel like flipping maria should have the support if it doesn't. there's just a big enough contingent of people that are lurking or semi-lurking atm that it's hard to get momentum back.

[implosion]

actually that isn't even true hm

[implosion]

Votecount 1.16

Elsa Jay - 2 (SleepyKrew, T-Bone)
implosion - 5 (MariaR, zoraster, Alchemist21, Elsa Jay, xRECKONERx)
MariaR - 5 (implosion, the worst, ErrantParabola, Bins, Baezu)
zoraster - 1 (Papa Zito)

With 14 alive, it's 8 votes to hug someone until they are too full of friendship to continue the game. Day ends in (expired on 2019-04-20 09:11:00). Everypony play mafia!

this + gif + 2 of skrew/elsa/reck should be willing to push it through? something like that?

or we could just y'know idle with two wagons at 5 votes until there are 12 hours left in the deadline or something. that also works.

gif needs to get back to the game.

[implosion]

claim doesn't change much.

I don't know how else to explain how I'm stupidly obv town without going into meta so I'm just gonna tell yall why Implo is really obv scum still for his recent posting. The way he's trying to paint a picture that my playstyle is scummy over my actions is dumb. When he legit tried calling me out for doing the exact same thing. Please get the fuck onto Implo and trust my read on that slot. If I need to explain more I obviously will, but it's to be expected I suppose.

this is immensely silly and i don't think i really need to explain why. i can! but i shouldn't need to.

[implosion]

Oh please do entertain me.

[implosion]

how is that claim pretty believable

[implosion]

I think the only way you'll listen to me at this point ducky is flipping me so I really can care less at this moment and time.
I'm pretty sure the tracker I can backup is scum btw because of the wording being 'any tracker' that dies. Mostly when you're a back up it relates to roles of your own alignment but unless the tracker is gated (unlikely considering idk how that'd work with a backup) I think it's prob just a full scum tracker. Thoughts?

is this not believable?????

pretty sure maria is an experienced enough player to do that kind of "add a descriptive detail" thing with a fakeclaim.

if she weren't i'd agree that's townish but.

It's like, with things like this, the way I like to look at them is how out-of-the-way would this person have had to be thinking in order to say what they said if they're scum. If Maria is scum here, she's an experienced player and knows she's in trouble and she needs to do things to relieve pressure on her. Going out of the way to claim in a way that looks believable is something good scum do. A good example is a scumgame of mine on ms back in ~2012 where I claimed 1-shot daycop and gave a bunch of little corroborating details like saying i was going to daycop someone but then a hammer came, because I knew it was the only way I was going to buy enough towncred to make it through the game.

It's also entirely possible that she is literally just a scum backup tracker to a town tracker and that that phrasing exists in her role pm.

[implosion]

tl;dr exactly what bins said but with more words

[implosion]

the backing up of any alignment thing is also a vague site standard, in that it's how generic backup roles work in the normal queue and i therefore am trained to believe it's how the entire site looks at the role.

[implosion]

But the way it's acting like 'wait don't townread that' seems like trying to shut down the townread before it starts.

wtf.
ep said they thought it looked believable.
how the fuck am i "trying to shut down the townread before it starts"
and why would that even matter
that's literally how the game of mafia works we see things and we comment on them like wtf

If you wanna use the Maria is a good enough player thing then you should use that during the whole game and they're not.

Why the fuck would i bring it up during the whole game when it wasn't relevant earlier
it's like i'm looking at an entirely different set of rules of logic

it's not even an argument for maria being scum. i agree with bins that the claim is mostly neutral (the adding the additional detail thing can also come from town trying to signal that they're town). But it's a really bad reason to flip on maria given priors.

[implosion]

I think i'm supposed to take the bait and say something like "oh isn't it convenient that you, townie implosion, went with a VT claim rather than your previous and provided meta of doing a good claim unlike scum-Maria" but I sort of feel like i'm being led by the hand by implosion. Maybe maria too? It feels inorganic, though implosion has been on the maria wagon basically post-baezu so that lends a little credence.

i happen to *be* a vt in this game. so no, and you know i'm going to say this in response... i'm not claiming vt out of convenience.

i've claimed vt as scum before.
i've claimed power roles as scum before.
I don't have a meta around what i fakeclaim as scum that I'm aware of. I can think of a couple of very particularly crafted fakeclaims i've done (that 1-shot daycop claim, that time i claimed a very specific joat in fatboy mafia). I've definitely fakeclaimed vt as well. I wasn't mentioning the daycop thing to make a point about my meta, i was mentioning it as an example of the way that an elaborate or embellished claim isn't always a towntell.

And to be ONCE AGAIN absolutely clear. I'm not even calling maria's claim scummy. it's just not townish.

[implosion]

Ep said they thought it was townish.

I don’t want the wagon to dissolve because of a claim that easily comes from scum.

[implosion]

Idk why this is hard to understand.

[implosion]

Zor, if you’re town, you’re confbiasing on me really hard. That post had nothing to do with me talking about my meta. And I think that’s pretty clear from the surrounding context. And the fact that I quoted ep saying it looked believable (implicitly saying it was townish).

[implosion]

i'll switch to zor at deadline if i need to but it'd really be significantly more ideal of people could stop thinking maria is town for no reason : )

I don't even know what to think of my wagon at this point. It's still way too simple if there are like 3 scum on it.

itd be so nice if gif and sleepy were voting : )

i also want to repeat this for the umpteenth time.

[implosion]

it's an accident that both the quoted post and my post use : ).
And by an accident, i mean it's an attempt to backhandedly pocket bins.

[implosion]

i like vt. mostly because i like town~ i don't usually have a strong preference for vt versus town pr

idk if zor is a wolf but he's a boring compromise lynch

Maria is wolfy and if she IS town her flip will help a lot

staying where I am and honestly anyone who doesn't vote between Maria/zor in their next post should feel objectively terrible

basically, this post in its entirety is the gamestate

the people who aren't being clear about who they're willing to vote should make that clear. We have <48hr. Deadline is

actually

close now.

[implosion]

i don't think elsa's claim makes maria town meaningfully. though i can see why he thinks it does. The phrasing thing is probably a piece of evidence in favor of maria being town, but it's not an especially strong one and it doesn't trump the reasons to think that she's scum.

Spoiler: just to respond to the new points maria raised, and avoid rehashing...

-He had quite the few townreads early game and when I asked him to explain? He didn't. That's a huge pattern for him.

yes it's such a pattern of one instance of a thing

The only reason he words it like that is because he wants someone to ask otherwise he can get away with the illusion that he can when really, he can't.

i'd like to think the idea that i wouldn't be able to fabricate reasons for townreads as scum is kind of patently ridiculous. i've been on this site eight goddamn years.

-He's also tried to backtrack out of his reads many times going from 'I feel really good about this' to putting people he felt like he had a tr on back into the poe.

wow my reads changed in response to new information how interesting

(for example Elsa)

said i wouldn't rehash but my god this has been beaten to death i was never townreading elsa more than a little and i've made this incredibly explicitly clear

-Whenever someone called out Implo on anything he did regardless if it was me Alch etc. He would never ever engage with us to try and prove us wrong or read our slot.

this is actually an interesting point; contrast how i *did* try to engage with zoraster, because i think he's more likely to be town. I still see no reason to townread maria or alch, hence the goal in responding to their posts is to explain why I think they're scummy.

He has not stated why I'm scum either

good one.
to be clear those are only the posts that are explicitly entirely mini-cases; i've also pointed out plenty of other reasons for maria to be scum (e.g., her points against me not making any sense and being incongruent with her not knowing how i play as town) and refuted reasons for her to be town (e.g. 1773).

i'll be on this evening if i need to vote for zor. i'll probably just hammer him then if he hasn't been i guess :\

[implosion]

i would probably call elsa strong town for this claim irrespective of maria's alignment if not for xyzzy's just-ended game where he did a hilarious claim shenanigan, meaning he's the kind of person who will do hilarious claim shenanigans, in that i don't think a scum tracker would typically hardclaim in that situation to stop a lynch onto the town backup tracker.

he's almost definitely town if maria is scum.

[implosion]

VOTE: Maria

[implosion]

i think zito doesn't come off that badly yesterday. It might be me getting pocketed but his desire to lynch zor feels genuine. I think the way he played eod yesterday is very congruent with him being town who preferred zor fairly strongly, then maria, then me among the options. Like the way he was talking to Maria on page 76 looks fairly town to me, particularly if Maria is scum. If she's town then all of the lynch options yesterday were town and analyzing the way things played out becomes relatively futile.

[implosion]

I don't really know how to feel about reck anymore. His play late yesterday felt very go-with-the-flow.

[implosion]

VOTE: Maria

[implosion]

whoops sorry wrong account i meant to post that as GuyInFreezer

[implosion]

yup nvm new townblock
me/bins/gif/???

T-Bone/Zito likely has 1-2 scum i think

VOTE: implosion let's do this one

Suddenly I dislike everything you're posting.

What's up with that.

[implosion]

vig/sk/multiball are all possible but it's not really an interesting conversation and it'll sort itself out later with flips and eventual massclaim.

[implosion]

Glork, you seem to be scumreading like everyone? Gif is scum, i'm scum, maria's claim is scum, bins is likely scum with maria, alch and tbone are uninspiring, zito is null?

Why opt to vote gif here in particular?

[implosion]

Alright, let’s rephrase to be more precise.

You have an awfully broad scumpool.

[implosion]

You listed 6 people. Take out the two that I called you out on and that leaves 4. There are probs 3-4 scum in the game.

Not what I mean by scumpool, the pool of people you're considering as scum, which would include nullreads in common parlance. Or... let's put this another way.

You said you've read the thread and done ISOs and whatnot. Is reck *really* your only townread? I'm somewhat offput by that from someone with a strong reputation. It seems like you're taking awfully few hard stances by calling 4 people scum or likely scum and another 3 effectively null.

[implosion]

Right now I think bins's reads list is fairly close to where I'm at, modulo zito mostly. Bins/zito are the people I feel good about as town, then Elsa, then tbone/residually glork (though i want to hear more about the way he's viewing the game).

Maria is scum, probably with 2/3 of alch/reck/gif or something like that. Alch being the most likely of those.

[implosion]

oh i did forget elsa. eh.

[implosion]

my breakdown is in the post i just made giving my breakdown

[implosion]

it's really not even close. there are 7 people i'm calling town to various degrees (me, the worst, bins, zito, elsa, tbone, you).

How is that "almost exactly the same"???

[implosion]

Noooooooo you don’t get to call 7 people town on D2 with a probs 4/7 alignment breakdown workout amazing explanations.

i do, and in fact, did just now.
I might be wrong on some of them. Probably at most 1. It's not like they're gilded and set in stone.

And like, 2083 is reasonable. It's not the way I look at mafia games though. I can't really remember a game as town where there have been more than like 2 people that I've actively wanted to vote at once.

[implosion]

my spiciest read is zito as locktown pending maria flip and probably town even if she flips town

[implosion]

Why is gif in your townblock now?

[implosion]

well i'm sorry you feel that way

[implosion]

Reck, what are your most material reads right now?

Same to zito but i'm sure he'll regale us when he's here.

[implosion]

long/busy couple of days.

This game is really boring right now, reck is right about that. My current wagon has 1-2 scum on it. It's basically all set in stone. I don't know why there are only two votes on Maria. Especially that the main reason people still seem reluctant to vote there is the claim as far as I can tell. Like, I've explained why the claim isn't townish already but at a fundamental level... role ≠ alignment. This is an experienced group of players, for the most part. This shouldn't be a hard thing to understand. She can easily be a scum backup tracker. Like,

Between tracker and backup tracker, backups are generally more town role than an original.
Because when people fuck with a setup with deputy etc, they usually skip the original PR or give scum the PR.
This is not me saying that I think Elsa is scum btw.

This is such a horrible horrible argument. It's the weakest kind of setup speculation. And even the good kind of setup speculation shouldn't completely trump reads.

[implosion]

because i was looking to see why the maria wagon isn't getting momentum and remembered it.