Gay Dance! [Donezo]

[pienyan]

Quick strategy talk:

No one should leave the dance, we should essentially play this game like a standard game of mafia voting on people to lynch them. Also, no one should vote inside their pair until MYLO.

The reason is if you play this like how the previous dance games I've been in have gone and just have people leaving the dance to kill their partner you miss out on all the information you get from pushing lynches through like in a normal game like votes, reactions, who attacks who for what reasons and who defends who and etc. I'm gonna pull a quick anecdote: the last dance game I was in had me and Kagami, me in a T/T pair and him in a T/S pair, and we tried to play it that way trying to figure out autowin plans ruling people out based on associative tells. At the end of the day we had a correct autowin plan down but 1) no one else went along with it, and then 2) Kagami and I both got paranoid his and my partners were town and scum respectively, I wound up leaving and everything just got fucked.

Tl;dr leaving the dance is basically a giant trap and we shouldn't do it.

On a quick read of the thread I don't like OkaPoka.

[pienyan]

Hey GIF, are you gonna play seriously this game?

[pienyan]

I'm questionable about Ank.

You're asking me that question in pre-game.

Yeah, but I don't really like this attitude. I think you're more capable of having some sort of plan than this even in pregame rather than just throwing your hands up and being like "lolnocontent".

[pienyan]

what even is obvtowning

Any actual opinions on the game so far?

[pienyan]

I think you're more capable of having some sort of plan

I rarely plan things. I just come things up on the spot.

I guess that's sort of what I meant. I don't really know how to explain it.
To me you're someone who figures out some way to make content, not just sits around and goes "welp".

[pienyan]

chennis is looking like a tryhard by saying too many things that really go without saying

Can you give examples?

[pienyan]

Tbh I sort of like how chen was the first to actually speak up and propose some sort of strategy instead of letting the game devolve into chaos.

[pienyan]

I could easily give those examples myself lol.

I'm not really sure what you mean here, is this agreement or you saying you don't like his answer?

[pienyan]

It's me saying that the examples are obvious.

I don't really think so, but w/e.

[pienyan]

u turning me straight

and ur town ilu pie

Come here then. *holds up a whip and handcuffs*

Btw I think you're town.

[pienyan]

GIF I guess looks OK for now?

Hoi Sakura. Are you town?

[pienyan]

Yes

Pinky promise?

[pienyan]

What the hell Bitmap, that's my line.

[pienyan]

I wanna know if youre town. ;_;

[pienyan]

Tbh you don't seem town to me yet. But it's still early, so.

P-edit: GIF gets it.

[pienyan]

If I ever roll scum in these dance games i wanna try pairing with another scum for fun.

^I 100% would tbh.

[pienyan]

Why?

Bleh I guess I shouldn't have even said anything.
I actually think S/S pairing is optimal in this setup. You have a lot of control over the game that way and it results in your pair being very hard to lynch, plus these setups are plagued with people leaving all the time and it circumvents that entirely. I think I could prolly steamroll fairly easily in a S/S pair.
But then ig part of it is personal preference. I'm the type of player who prefers hard defending my scum partners.

[pienyan]

Oh?
Would it be a problem for you if i paired early?

Are you planning on it?
(I figure you'd only do it with me but you don't seem to be townreading me?)

[pienyan]

maybe we should "psuedo-pair"? idk.

i don't think preventing people from pairing early will work

I don't think I like this.

[pienyan]

Haa.

[pienyan]

Oh?
Would it be a problem for you if i paired early?

(I figure you'd only do it with me but you don't seem to be townreading me?)

Can you answer this?

Admittedly I don't really care too much about making sure my partner is town before I pair with her, so it may not even matter, but I wanna know.

[pienyan]

I got a slight townlean on you.
But I figured it'd be more fun to try and read you as a lover pair.

You recall I'm not the sort who uses neighbor/lover PTs much, right?

[pienyan]

I don't really mind pairing with you (it's sort of been my dream to ever since FG came up with this setup, tee hee) but I'll at least wait until everyone enters the thread.

[pienyan]

I think Oka looks sort of better now tbh. But people saying he's the type who looks like a lynchbait as town and not as scum throws a wrench in that.

[pienyan]

Why does ANYONE think chennis is town?

I thought it was sort of town how he was one of the first people to try to step up and actually take the lead over the game, talk strategy and the like (even if he did state the obvious sometimes). These games have so much of a tendency to devolve into chaos and most of the time I wouldn't expect scum to go 100% counter to it like he tried to do. It's not unfakeable though.

[pienyan]

chennisden and pienyan are scum.

Why?

[pienyan]

I'm not really inclined to let you call me scum without questioning it.

If you don't answer, though, feel free to become my slave instead. *holds up her whip and handcuffs*

[pienyan]

I wonder how many people I can turn into my slaves by the time the game ends.

[pienyan]

pienyan i don't like ur interactions with sakura so far. I know scum!u would go for a pocket on her and that's where i see that going. SO YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, you pass.

[pienyan]

I think doing the pairing before people have even checked in is too early lol.

[pienyan]

I mean who really cares who has checked in or not.

It's more just a courtesy than anything.

[pienyan]

Pie, how confident are you that you can read Sakura in a PT?

I'd rather simply read her in the game thread. Now, for you:

GIF is town
Bingle I want to think is town?
Oka looks very bizarre this game

Explain these reads, especially how on earth did you arrive at Bingle being town.

[pienyan]

I want you to show your work with the GIF read because your reads list looks really half baked, like you're just going with the flow and trying to throw in some reads like the Bingle one to sound unique.

What's pinging you about Oka?

[pienyan]

I think it's probably been too long since we played, pie

As far as I remember you don't like playing scum and there's a lot of things as scum that you simply struggle to fake. As long as that hasn't changed I don't see any reason to question the validity of my read here.
Which Oka posts are you talking about, because I only remember a few strategy posts from near the beginning of the game (without making it a large part of his approach like chen has) and he's had plenty of content to go off of since then.

[pienyan]

My scum game is a lot better now than it was years ago, pie

Ooh, I do love a challenge.
This is sort of just curiosity but do you have a recent scum game I can look at? Tyvm.

Tbh with GiF Sakura and Bitmap already sorted as town imo we're already almost to auto win if Cheeky pairs with Sakura

Do you not have any thoughts on the proposed Sakura-me pairing?

[pienyan]

While you're at it Gamma where is your read on me at?

[pienyan]

My response to the first also answers the second
I'm concerned those scumreading you are right in which case I don't want one of my stronger townreads pairing with you

1. For what reasons?
2. If you felt this way why were you not inclined to comment on it or object to it as you were actually catching up with the game? I'd think you would think to do so since it's one of the more significant points of the gamestate right now.

[pienyan]

has anybody purposefully paired up with a scummy person or their fos and intentionally left the dance

dying in a blaze of glory

No one is going to be leaving the dance this game.

[pienyan]

Idk I feel like in past town games, specifically TGIFPiegirln, you just have felt more genuinely sorty.

I don't like you trying to meta me when I haven't played at all in the 2 years since that game.
I'm sorting the game, but I don't really have strong reads yet - were you expecting me to?

[pienyan]

Idk I feel like in past town games, specifically TGIFPiegirln, you just have felt more genuinely sorty.

I don't like you trying to meta me when I haven't played at all in the 2 years since that game.
I'm sorting the game, but I don't really have strong reads yet - were you expecting me to?

Somewhat

OK, well keep my rust in mind. I'm not going to come out the gate with strong reads on everyone when 1. it's less than 12 hours into the game and 2. I'm still getting a feel for actually playing again in the first place.

[pienyan]

Well I'd like to see some effort rn

I am putting in the effort, this is what you're getting. Take it or leave it.

[pienyan]

so you aren't that passionate about finding good pairings? you said gif was a tr and I don't see you towrneading bitmap

Really dont get the scumreads here. Such honest crusading

In my case I feel he was pressuring me into pairing with GRob

Really hate this post.

[pienyan]

Why

It's such a bad, bullshit reason to justify your read. It reads like you wanted to continue your pressure from early game on a lynchbait townie and you're reaching for a reason to do so.

[pienyan]

Where did I previously pressure Oka, this is a massive reach imo

You had a few posts where you seemed to be questioning him (albeit without declaring a firm read).
But the key point here is the fact your reason is horrible. The game's barely started and your whole reason for scum reading him (a player who's had a lot of negative attention) is not only a preflip association, but with someone who's barely even posted - even if you firmly scum read GR it's just way too early and too bullshit to scum read Oka tying them together. It just looks like a forced reason to push lynchbait and what you're doing here feels like a nitpicky argument without actually trying to question my point.

I think Oka looks sort of better now tbh. But people saying he's the type who looks like a lynchbait as town and not as scum throws a wrench in that.

How come? He looks like massive lynchbait. If he looks different as scum then isnt it obvious whats going on here?

He looks better as in his play seems to have a lot more direction and makes more sense now as opposed to his first few posts which just seemed like pointless blending in.

[pienyan]

I don't like Kirari btw.

[pienyan]

I think I want to pair with GRob this game

You would try to break up true love, wouldn't you? Think of all the time that poor Grob put into that photoshop too!

^This is why. She seems to be following the thread but isn't discussing anything that's going on in the game at all. Her first few posts felt forced as if she couldn't come up with anything to say, and even with the few posts she has made since then (which have all been in response to pairings) there's not any content there. I think it reads more like she's sort of just latching onto it for easy posts to make and less like detached play.
I also don't really like the lack of comment on the Sakura-me pairing.

[pienyan]

But the key point here is the fact your reason is horrible. The game's barely started and your whole reason for scum reading him (a player who's had a lot of negative attention) is not only a preflip association, but with someone who's barely even posted - even if you firmly scum read GR it's just way too early and too bullshit to scum read Oka tying them together. It just looks like a forced reason to push lynchbait and what you're doing here feels like a nitpicky argument without actually trying to question my point.

There's much more to the association than just the pressure to pair with GRob imo,

OK, then what is it?

and I don't see how GRob or Oka had "barely posted". Also, I don't regard Oka as lynchbaity town, Ank, Fire, and some other should back me up on that. I don't buy into anything you've said, and the fact you're trying to combat me like this just makes me even more inclined to stick to my guns given I already do not trust you.

Golden Robster had 5 posts at the time you declared you thought Oka was pushing you to pair with him.

Also, I don't regard Oka as lynchbaity town, Ank, Fire, and some other should back me up on that.

The point I'm making is less about you considering him "lynchbait" or not as in how easy he is to push to a lynch; it's more that right now he's an easy target to push with a lot of attention on him, and so pushing him is an easy way to go with the flow.

[pienyan]

GRob angling to pair with Oka early was also a point against those two, since Oka was under fire. As I said I felt like those two should just be able to be left out and that was why, they both acted in ways that made me feel they were partners, and it doesn't matter how much they posted, I still felt it was rather partner-indicative. As for thinking I'm aiming for easy targets, I'm not, the fact that Oka decided to badger me about pairing with GRob made me really concerned.

No. Why would you assume Oka pestering you to pair with GR was a connection

before GR even made any posts???

I just hate your read here so much. It's so early in the game I don't think it's genuine that you'd start using "they're partners" as your whole basis for forming the read.

[pienyan]

Because I'd alluded to the possibility before the game started and it seemed like he was trying to arrange a marriage that would benefit their side, so to speak.

That's not a reason for anything when GR literally hadn't posted. How on earth do you jump to the conclusion that it must be because they're both scum instead of, I don't know, Oka just following up on you talking about it in pregame???

And I guess I'm sorry I actually am thinking about things on higher levels than you because that's how it feels, I was already thinking about possible connections and you weren't ready for that.

This is so disingenuous. You're just trying to resort to sarcasm since you don't know how to argue back.

[pienyan]

gamma is going to pair with golden rob me thinks

gamma r u going to pair with golden rob

So based on these two posts, and then GR's 6 posts after that, you decided they were scum together and that this was a strong enough connection to be your sole reason for scum reading Oka. Yeah, OK.

[pienyan]

Actually, what needs to happen here is pretty clear-cut. Pienyan seems like the slot that is in a good need of sorting, but that will provide for a damn power-partner if that sorting can happen properly.

And the slot actually talks, which is a win.

Pienyan, wanna dance?

I'm planning on going with Sakura at the moment. Sorry ;_;

[pienyan]

Vecna what do you think of this latest exchange between Gamma and me? He literally scum reads Oka (who you think is town), his entire reason is an associative tell thinking Oka was trying to push him into pairing with GR, but GR literally hadn't even posted at the time Oka did that, and then when he did post he had barely even posted by the time Gamma decided they were scum together. I don't think it's genuine that this early in the game his whole reason for getting a read is an association, let alone such a flimsy one.

[pienyan]

(Also I know you want to sort me, but I think you can do that easy enough in the game thread. I actually don't really use neighbor/lover PTs much, I just wanna be with her cuz she's a super close friend of mine and I trust myself to sort her more than anyone.)

[pienyan]

Don't you find it odd that she hasn't responded to you?

Uhm. But she has?

[pienyan]

She's the one who proposed to me you dork. I'm the one who hasn't responded yet, though unless something comes up I'll be accepting in a little bit.

P-edit: I don't have one at the moment. I'm still sort of just seeing how things shake out with her. I don't have any reason to think she's scum atm.

P-edit #2: www

[pienyan]

Ank what are your thoughts on Gamma's Oka read and my latest thoughts on him?

[pienyan]

OK, let's start with this. Do you think it's normal for someone to scum read someone on D1 with the only reason being associative tells (with no flips and it only being 12 hours into the game)?

[pienyan]

It's weird but is it scummy weird

I've done things like that occasionally and I don't see the difference between town doing that and scum doing that

Is it scummy when the person in question has no other scum reads? I.E. doesn't have any reads that are actually based on someone's own play?

(He has me now but this came before that.)

[pienyan]

Actually now that I think about it not only did he not have any actual scum reads but he does that at the same time as he criticizes me for not solving enough and not having strong reads.

[pienyan]

Vecna the question in 668 is for you too.

I realize I'm being sort of aggressive with this and I don't mean it as "omigawd you must agree with my read" I'm just trying to make sure my point doesn't get lost in all the static.

[pienyan]

Welcome to my play style I guess. I tend to hunt motivation and a lot of the time I think one of the best ways to do that is directly calling out when I think someone's reads are facetious.

[pienyan]

You're a sweetheart. xoxo

[pienyan]

Can you quote these for me?

Spoiler: quotes

My response to the first also answers the second
I'm concerned those scumreading you are right in which case I don't want one of my stronger townreads pairing with you

1. For what reasons?
2. If you felt this way why were you not inclined to comment on it or object to it as you were actually catching up with the game? I'd think you would think to do so since it's one of the more significant points of the gamestate right now.

Idk I feel like in past town games, specifically TGIFPiegirln, you just have felt more genuinely sorty. As for why I didn't say anything I'm not really focusing too hard on my reads, I mean ffs I said the thing about the solve but I had that in kind since I'd locktowned Sakura, I just forgot I'd townread GiF in the first few pages like that so I didn't care to bring it up.

Idk I feel like in past town games, specifically TGIFPiegirln, you just have felt more genuinely sorty.

I don't like you trying to meta me when I haven't played at all in the 2 years since that game.
I'm sorting the game, but I don't really have strong reads yet - were you expecting me to?

Somewhat

Idk I feel like in past town games, specifically TGIFPiegirln, you just have felt more genuinely sorty.

I don't like you trying to meta me when I haven't played at all in the 2 years since that game.
I'm sorting the game, but I don't really have strong reads yet - were you expecting me to?

Somewhat

OK, well keep my rust in mind. I'm not going to come out the gate with strong reads on everyone when 1. it's less than 12 hours into the game and 2. I'm still getting a feel for actually playing again in the first place.

Well I'd like to see some effort rn

Then for the lack of his reads you should just be able to skim his ISO real quick, there's a town read on Bitmap and some talk about strategy but no actual scum reads.

[pienyan]

That first quote in particular squicked me out because he's trying to use 2 year old meta on me when I haven't played at all since then. I don't think he really believes that without any regard to the fact I'm likely going to be different now.

[pienyan]

Uhm is that to me with Gamma, or GIF with Kirari?

[pienyan]

You regarding gamma

There's really nothing of substance to it. He town reads Bitmap without much of a reason, says he'd pair with chen because chen posts a lot and that's about it.

Spoiler: bitmap posts

Also Im bitmap none of you can read me suck it. hahahahahahahahahahahaahahawhahahahahahaghuyaeswjkbh asdzjknvdfszkljn;adfsgvkl;jndafvkjn;dfvalldjkn;favdafvzl;jkn

Bitmap town

I thought he was talking about this game gommene

My townread on Bitmap just became serious

There's not much substance to any of his posts, really. It's just a lot of empty posting.

[pienyan]

O look. The typical scum counterargument, just slap the "misrep" label on it and call it a day.

Idk pie, that sounds like something Gamma could do as either alignment

I don't think that's too useful a metric to sort him with unless there's more context to his mindset, which generally takes time to get

I think the lack of actual scum reads is telling tbh.

[pienyan]

Starry night had a massive focus on townreads and he was in that game, so it's not necessarily scummy to think along looking for town this game

He's not even doing that either, he literally has one town read.

[pienyan]

He stated three, he just didn't go into the other two

OK, then if he was focusing on getting town reads, why even reach so hard to come up with a reason to scum read Oka? I don't believe he actually thinks scum reading him purely on an association is a good read.

[pienyan]

I'm gonna try to get some sleep now (I stayed up all night lol), but one last thing before I go,

ok, try me

pie would you like to dance?

I accept!

Good night.

[pienyan]

I haven't read yet, but this is adorable omg.

[pienyan]

There's a lot of posts and I'm busy tonight so I may not get caught up till tomorrow. We shall see.

[pienyan]

Hello. Need anything?

[pienyan]

I'm 30 pages behind, let me catch up.

[pienyan]

GIF-you isn't the endgame pair.

[pienyan]

Long post but I've tried to keep it concise so bear with me. For endgame pairs I like Vecna/Ausuka and Sakura/me. I have Gamma and Fire scum and the next likely being somewhere in {Kirari, Bitmap, GIF, choag, Shiro}. I do however think Gamma and Kirari should pair and we should go into the dayphase. I don't see any reason it's worth it to just kick them out instead of letting the lynch decide their fate.

I really don't see the scum intent or inside info in chen's posts. I think he is town. I'd appreciate it if someone could walk me through their read here and try to convince me of what's going on.

I think Oka is probably town? I think his posting is genuine particularly his read on chen. I also think Ausuka is town, her posting seems open and honest and I don't really think there's scum intent in how she's playing right now.

I have Sakura town and I have Bingle, GR, Vecna and Ank null-town. I want to point out about Bingle that I think his approach here is really meta if he's scum. He plays a really orthodox, straight-laced town looking scum game from what I remember and that approach I think would be devastating in these sorts of games where there's lots of chaos. So I don't know if he'd actively choose to go for an approach like this as scum.

Fire's posting looks really weird to me. He seems to have conviction and direction in how he plays and I think this is a trait more associated with scum Fire than town Fire, town Fire I always remember being very idgaf-y and more just having fun with the game than anything.

I still really dislike Gamma. For one I think his backoff to me in 735 was really awkward and forced.

Like if that unwritten agreement existed why did the pairing happen just as pie signed off rather than when pie first noticed it?

I don't really mind pairing with you (it's sort of been my dream to ever since FG came up with this setup, tee hee) but I'll at least wait until everyone enters the thread.

Okay
I'll fact check this and if it's consistent I'll probably reconsider my read on pie

Here he was just a little bit ago saying I was "misrep"ping him, reaching really hard, taking his posts out of context and the like and essentially just BS'ing in order to make a push on him. However here he says he'll reconsider, except the thing is, GIF's argument here has nothing to actually do with the reason he was scum reading me in the first place. My timing with the Sakura pairing being consistent should have nothing to do with me BS'ing a push on him. What I think actually is going on here is that he realized he can't really push me and is searching for an excuse to backpedal- I think a town Gamma would have more conviction in his push instead of a half baked "I don't buy anything you're putting down" and then just seeming to forget about it next thing we know. I also think his posts since then in general have been really light on content. I don't see any scum reads and again I see very little in terms of town reads, actively questioning in order to solve the game and the like and it just looks like coasting scum.

---

I'm actually concerned about GIF. I don't like his "the game is sorted" "can't we just have all the pairs outside X/Y leave" approach at all, which I first noticed around 877:

Also did the game reach the point yet where we can just have bunch of people leave the dance and townwin very quickly

The reason is I know GIF hates autowin plans and he thinks they tend to make town lazy and apathetic. However here he seems to be totally going counter to it and encouraging the fact that the game is an easy solve and we don't need to worry too hard about it. I could absolutely see scum GIF trying to push something like this down all our throats and iirc he's done something similar before in terms of trying to push autowin plans as scum in order to make town lazy. I'm also really paranoid that his treatment of me is buddying, particularly this post

I'm 99.8% sure this is pie towngame so
If she's scum she made some really bold moves and I'll enjoy as her sanity slowly breaks as your paranoia on her eventually increases

It's sort of a bit too accurate, like it was tailored to me and I'm scared. I pushed Gamma over trying to scum read me off meta when I haven't played in so long and tbh I think it absolutely does work the other way, see: Sakura and how she's reading me and sort of just being paranoid because she doesn't know what I'm going to do for a more town approach, whereas he's totally convinced of how my play is going to be one way or the other and that I'm town.

I don't have any reason to believe Bitmap is town at the moment either, so combined with the GIF read is why I don't want them being the endgame pair.

---

@Sakura:

To answer your questions from a while back, yes I do think you can pull a zmuffin as scum when you put the effort into the game, but that is where I do agree with you- I don't really think you put effort like that into games as scum anymore. And the difference between you and GE is that you simply try to look for townreads. You don't try to reach super hard to bullshit reasons for scum reads like associative tells on day 1 with no other reason for someone being scum and with one of the people not even having any posts yet.

Why do you think Gamma is town? (Correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm going off 1269)

[pienyan]

Another thing I want to mention is that all of Shiro's posts are totally empty. He doesn't have scum reads and the only town read I can see is that he has Fire town?

[pienyan]

shiro basically townreads everyone but chennisden rn, and wants chennisden gone.

Uhm can you link me? I must have missed it.

[pienyan]

I also think you rolling scum here would cause you to panic, and my thought process just continues from there. If you're scum and screaming internally in panic, would you approach Sakura like that? Hence I called what you've done a bold move if you're scum.

Don't you imagine I'd sort of have to, because not doing so would be a scum claim?

[pienyan]

when do i ever post reads fire? I townread almost everyone and I am sad because the person I most prefered would be left out was chenn

I'm not sure if that changes my read tbh. It's really easy to just throw out "I have too many town reads" as scum and call it a day, there's still no real stance in that.

[pienyan]

The difference between autowin plans and this is that this is derived purely from my reads and not related to mechanics at all.

I think it's very much related to mechanics in the way that if people start leaving the dance and things go wrong everything just devolves and we don't have much of a way out of it (this pretty much happened in the last dance game I played). So if you can push the game in that direction convincing people the game is easy, that's a win for you.

P-edit: How so? Anyone who knows me probably would figure being able to pair with her is like my dream ever since FG came up with this setup.

P-edit 2: I'd at least expect him to have some firmer reads with reasoning behind them, not just a loose scum read on chen vaguely not liking his posting and everyone being town with you being his only strong town read that he singles out. There's been plenty of content in the game so far to go off of.

[pienyan]

Actually

@Shiro

I'm not sure when you'll get to this but when/if you do can you give examples of chen posts you dislike?

[pienyan]

@GIF

Can you talk more about why you have Bitmap town?

[pienyan]

are we still talking like chenn isn't obvtown

[pienyan]

Sakura is town.

[pienyan]

I don't like pie's wall post focusing on their survival.

I don't even scumread chennis atm. I'm just unsure that they should be close to endgame tbh.

1. What about this is "focusing on survival" when I'm very safe survival wise regardless, and 2. what about the post reads that way?

[pienyan]

Ank why are Fire and Bitmap town? If I missed it link plz.

[pienyan]

Well, I'm town and Sakura is town, and obviously so after her recent posts, so.

P-edit I mean what exactly about him are you reading as town?

[pienyan]

his posting between content and shitposting is a lot more natural as town than scum

That doesn't help me because I think his posting is really unnatural tbh.
Can you give any examples of posts you liked?

[pienyan]

Bitmap what part about me pushing my pair for endgame is scum motivated as opposed to, idk, simply being sure Sakura is town and thus that we're a town pair? I want an answer to this.

[pienyan]

Ank I guess we just disagree then, that first post is one of his posts that read unnatural/forced to me. -.-

[pienyan]

Hmmmmmmm

I guess I could be remembering his play wrong. It's been forever.

[pienyan]

I never mentioned it's scum motivated. When did I ever say that? I just don't feel good when people try to force their pair to endgame.

I don't like this btw. It's either scum motivated or it's not- there is no in between half-assed "lul I don't like this" if it doesn't actually read like scum to you. It just looks like throwing shade.
Unless you're worried Sakura is scum and will manipulate me or something, in which case talk to me because she's really obviously not.

[pienyan]

Aside from that ig I'm just waiting for Gamma and Kirari-replacement and then for the dayphase to start.

[pienyan]

I never mentioned it's scum motivated. When did I ever say that? I just don't feel good when people try to force their pair to endgame.

I don't like this btw. It's either scum motivated or it's not- there is no in between half-assed "lul I don't like this" if it doesn't actually read like scum to you. It just looks like throwing shade.
Unless you're worried Sakura is scum and will manipulate me or something, in which case talk to me because she's really obviously not.

Yeah, but you don't see me being like "I HAVE TO BE THE LAST PAIR". I'm like dude just pick a pair doesn't have to be mine but has to be townie.

I don't get how my post was throwing shade tbh.

Mine wasn't like that either and I'm really, really not sure how you got that from my post. I proposed it, and I'd definitely like it to happen but I've done 0 to actually "force" it through, at least not yet.
It's throwing shade because, if you don't think it's scum motivated and don't think Sakura or me are scum what motivation do you have to even discredit it like that? Scum-you on the other hand has plenty of motivation to try and fight it especially if you have strong feelings Sakura/me is gearing up to be the endgame pair.

[pienyan]

I'm saying it's not inherently scummy but it can be done by scum to sort of lead "hey make my pair the last pair" when I'm like "listen I don't care if my pair is last or not just pick a confident T-T pair".

But I don't really have strong feelings for my pair being end game. It's mostly just GIF and others.

Sakura is strongly town though, so why _wouldn't_ I want our pair in endgame?

[pienyan]

It's not really because it's my pair that I proposed it is what I'm saying. But I'm town and I'd be very surprised if Sakura is scum here, so.

*shrug*

[pienyan]

Kirai was probably locktown for tilted replace lut thing and I’m pretty sure that is is obvtown Gamma, so why not?

Talk more about this?

[pienyan]

Nim, why is Gamma "obvtown"?

[pienyan]

I do have reason to townread gamma tbh
But I don't like the reason

Which is...?

[pienyan]

meh, think im just gonna leave asap

Don't do this. I think you both are town.

It's 4:30 in the morning, so it might be later till I get around to responding to stuff.

[pienyan]

She is tr way more people than she usually does as scum.

Can we talk about this? From what I see this is the extent of Gamma's town reads;

- Town reading Bitmap based on surface reasoning from a few posts
- Following along with the Sakura/GIF town reads since early on when people were bloc'ing those three up
- Town reading Kirari (this one was against consensus at the time)
- Somehow moving from a scum read to a town read on me for no apparent reason - I'll talk about this more in the next quote.

For him being active for 70+ pages of game and this much content to go off of, I don't think there's many town reads or anything particularly good here in terms of the reads he does have. Besides Kirari/you-slot all of these are widely held reads. While this isn't really a particularly strong point against him (and I'm open to changing my mind on it) I do think he'd have a bit more to show than a few mostly-consensus reads if he was trying to focus that hard on town hunting here.

She is also not being sketchy like she was in MD. I was his scumbuddy in that, so I’d like to I’m pretty good at reading him - in this kind of setup anyway.

This is where I disagree with you firmly. I think there were multiple instances earlier in the game where his behavior was really off and forced.

The first is that I think he was bullshitting scum reads. For a while he had no scum reads and then he popped up saying he thought both Oka and GR were scummy, and his only reason for doing so was an associative tell. Moreover at the time this was literally referring to a total of two posts by Oka (426 and 477), and GR only had had 5 posts at the time. This is all sorts of bad not only because of the fact he's trying to tie them together on what's pretty much the first game day with no flips whatsoever, but because of the sheer lack of substance to back it up - in fact after some back and forths with me and him it came out that he had assumed Oka's two posts were a tell _before GR even posted at all_. It'd be one thing if he actually had a reason for scum reading Oka or GR (or if GR had literally even posted...) but he fucking didn't, he just conjured up an associative tell to scum read him while avoiding talking about his or GR's actual play. People pointed out to me that in isolation neither of these are particularly scummy - focusing on town hunting and town using weird logic are both things - but when taken together I think it paints a picture that shows strong scum motivation, namely, he needed some scum reads to push and wasn't sure what to do to actually attack anyone so he tries to scramble for an angle to push and finds this "associative" tell to push.

The second is his read of me. When I called him out for this he and I had a bunch of back and forths where he accused me of all sorts of things like "misrep"ping him and reaching to push him as scum- in essence, BS'ing a read on him. But then in 735 he says he'll reconsider on me for a reason that has literally nothing to actually do with the reasons he scum reads me- namely the timing of me pairing with Sakura being consistent with what I said I'd do earlier in the game. ??????? What does this even have to do with me apparently lying to push him. It doesn't and there's no reason it should nullify it if he really believed this is what I was doing.

What I think actually happened here is that he saw he couldn't really get away with pushing me, and wanted to find a reason to back off in a way that didn't seem awkward. I think a town Gamma would have a lot more conviction in his push here. Instead all we really got in terms of conviction is one post, 591 where he throws out he thinks he "doesn't buy anything I'm putting down" and then a little bit later he just... forgets about it entirely?

Since then Gamma has had basically nothing in terms of scum reads. Basically all of his posts have just been sort of floating along, making comments and asking questions here and there to look involved in the game without any actual internal thought process trying to solve the game. Apparently he doesn't even scum read Oka anymore; then way later in 1644 he apparently thinks I'm town. And his scum read on GR from earlier in the game hasn't appeared to turn anything either. I shouldn't need to mention why it's scummy to just sit there having no scum reads, not attacking anyone and not making any waves in the game.

So I ask, what part of this looks town to you?

[pienyan]

Part of the reason I do want this to go to the dayphase is while I do feel relatively sure Gamma is scum I could *gasp* just be wrong about it, and I sort of wish Gamma would actually fight it instead of just sitting there and being resigned to it. I'd rather people not get apathetic even if that can be difficult.

P-edit: the tl;dr is "he was bullshitting scum reads and his push on me totally lacked conviction", but reducing it to that totally leaves out all of the breaking it down that points to why it's actually unlikely a town him would do this, so not really.

[pienyan]

Welcome to my play style.

P-edit: Uhh Ank. Weren't you scum reading Gamma?

[pienyan]

And you say it'll go nowhere but from my view of the gamestate it looks like Gamma and Kirari-slot are one of the first ones up for lynch. Wtf are you on?

[pienyan]

I'm not even trying to push her, I actually kind of just want to understand where she's coming from on this read better. Like I said I just have this sinking feeling even if logic points to him being scum here.

[pienyan]

I'm not trying to ask about it to assess her alignment, I'm trying to see if I can't get another perspective on Gamma's alignment.

[pienyan]

:v

[pienyan]

So what do you want to do. Trust her read or just resign to lynching the pair?

[pienyan]

Do you still have Vecna/Ausuka as the next pair in line to lynch and if so why? Particularly on Vecna, I thought his posts were town and I really dislike how his apathy seems to have flipped a lot of people's reads on him since I think it's not indicative of anything.

[pienyan]

Ausuka looks town to me. I think her posts show genuine and consistent effort to try to game solve.

[pienyan]

Btw pie do you still need my scumgames

I'm good.

[pienyan]

Actually now that I think Sakura is town it seems like leaving pie/Sakura and Chen/bingle and Chen leaves if the game doesn't end will win the game?

Just as one example, I really don't think scum Ausuka goes for this angle here. There's more I could point out but this jumps out the most.

[pienyan]

If she's scum she's deciding on supporting the plan to get me-Sakura who's most likely a town pair to endgame, which would make her lose. I also like the chennis/Bingle read.

[pienyan]

do scum necessarily need to commit to their predance plans though?

All they need to do is not be completely fucked going into intermission in order to be fine since it's more important to just look town before that

While I believe this setup should be played mostly like a normal game I do believe there's plenty of merit in trying to identify strong town pairs and identify one or two to get to endgame. There's not really any reason to question the Sakura read, so once you have that read down the only unknown is me. And you don't see her trying to question or throw any shade on me, do you?

If she starts doing that, then we can talk about it, but until then she's committed to it, which is town.

[pienyan]

You're sort of missing the point; in a scenario like this why would you want to preemptively lynch her before she does the part of this whole plan that actually has scum motivation? Until then there's no reason not to just take it for what it is.

[pienyan]

You say scum her is gonna try to wriggle out of it after intermission but you have them so early on your lynch order you want to lynch them before she even does that and shows its scum motivated.

[pienyan]

No, it matters because as it is now she really shouldn't be lynched because there's no reason for scum her to play the way she is.
To be clear I'm not trying to push they should 100% be an endgame pair or anything, I'm saying you're wrong to want to lynch them _so early on_ before the intermission even happens and we get a chance to let her approach evolve more. You can't just ignore a strong town tell cuz of speculation it may just fall apart later on if she's scum.

[pienyan]

Until we have reason to believe she doesn't actually want our pair at endgame and just did it for looks, then yes, pushing our pair to endgame is being town, not just looking town.

P-edit: I hope not -.-

[pienyan]

GuyInFreezer & Bitmap
Golden Robster & Ankamius
Firebringer & OkaPoka
Gamma Emerald & Nimueh
With the addendum Shiro could easily be scum, but lynching her pair is dumb.

[pienyan]

At this point? POE.

[pienyan]

Well, F.

I guess I can watch out for Vecna for you.

[pienyan]

- Town reading Kirari (this one was against consensus at the time)
- Somehow moving from a scum read to a town read on me for no apparent reason - I'll talk about this more in the next quote.

- where the hell did you get a Kirari townread from
- I never said I townread you, I said I would reconsider.

I'm talking about these two posts. Understand I'm talking about your body of work throughout all the game so these are town reads you've had at some point or another even if they've changed since then.

It's fine Ank, you're just doing you. I just joined to dance with you for once, and if not you then grob, and I don't want Gamma to have a bad game just because I'm not in the mood to read him as a partner. <3

Hf

I think Kirari is town now
Problem is no one else does and I see no reason we wouldn't be the first lynch so pairing is kinda moot

You know what I don't mind Sakupie being in endgame with GifMap

Though, the argument in question was that you town reading more people is actually a part of your towngame, so what you just said works against you.

[pienyan]

U have town reads on all the yuris?

Not Shiro and ig the Vecna town read is sort of weak. Besides that yes at the moment.

[pienyan]

Gamma what actually are your scum reads at the moment and why?

[pienyan]

The fact I need to even ask you this with all this content on the board and you having so many posts is unsettling, but still.

[pienyan]

Uhm the Bingle read isn't particularly strong either. I mostly just am shooting off the hip thinking a scum him probably wouldn't choose to approach the game with this detached of a play style. IIRC he plays a orthodox, straight laced looking town game as scum, which would be perfect in these dance games since they have such a propensity to get chaotic.

[pienyan]

I think most people don't have the guts to go for that even though I think it's optimal. It'd be sort of funny if Gamma/Nimueh was one though.

[pienyan]

Kind of having second thoughts about GE and also thinking Ank may be scum. I need to think a bit more on this.

[pienyan]

I'm sort of just really confused. I'm looking at MD right now and I see a fair amount of stuff that looks similar to this game but also a fair amount that looks different, so ???.

I see you were in that game as well?

[pienyan]

Gamma isn't posting all hyperactively like he was in that game, don't you think?

[pienyan]

Tbh while there were a lot of empty posts and questions in stuff that game as well, his posts that game looked sort of all over the place whereas here I don't get the same feeling. Idk.

[pienyan]

I did post a fair bit in Merchant's Daughter but I wasn't hyperactive and hyperactivity from others actually made the game hard to follow.

I don't mean how much you posted. I mean that when you did post it sort of just felt all over the place. Like Nimueh said it just felt really inconsistent and hard to follow, whereas here mostly the reason I can't follow your reads is because you aren't posting them/don't seem to have many, and what I didn't like is the fact the substance behind your reads felt fake, not that they simply didn't have any. Idk if I'm wording this well.

[pienyan]

Is anyone still actively scumreading GE here though? As in recently?

His posting here seems quite ok'ish to me.

I sort of was. I still think his posts have been really empty, and that throughout the entire game he hasn't had much at all in terms of genuine scum reads/actual pushes on people to try to sort out the game. This also seems to have happened in MD but now I wonder if how it is in this game is more just apathy and less scum not wanting to try and fake it.

[pienyan]

pie thinking Ank could be scum after Ank started talking to me about potential pie scum is ????

That read comes into play, specifically, if GE/Nimueh and Vecna/Ausuka are both town pairs.

[pienyan]

But are they?

If anything if there's scum in that I think it may be Nimueh trying to wk GE. And on that count we just wait and see how she continues playing. I think it's very well possible that both are indeed town pairs.

I guess that given you're willing to TR a lot of people for a lot less, focusing on Ank being scum in some off chance isn't productive. Or am I interpreting it wrong?

It's not really just that (or BOP); I think she's trying to keep both pairs in the lynch pool past their shelf lives in a way that seems disingenuous.

[pienyan]

For now just watchlist.

[pienyan]

Who do you want to lynch come dayphase?

[pienyan]

Hey, Sophie is really sweet. ;__;

[pienyan]

Wow.

[pienyan]

Wait hang on. Was Shiro/croag the last pairing or was it chen/Bingle?

[pienyan]

I don't really think a scum Shiro pairs with a scum croag (especially if it'd result in killing the IC, which would probably simply kill both of them). Like I said I think a lot of people wouldn't have the guts to do it.

[pienyan]

That's what I remembered, thank you.

[pienyan]

Is it ok if I just say I'm quite sure Sakura will resolve herself?

P-edit: A Sakura-me scum team hard defends each other and curbstomps the game.

[pienyan]

I'm looking at GR again.

[pienyan]

I kind of actually think Bitmap is scum.

Wanting to lynch chen/Bingle like that right now given the context is really bad.

[pienyan]

I mean the last pair reasoning was kind of off. And your partner literally voted for chen/Bingle so yeah...

She's also been hard scum reading chen all game. I don't think the same applies to you, no?

[pienyan]

vote: GIF-.bmp

[pienyan]

I don't like all the Ausuka/Vecna pressure. I still think they both are town.

[pienyan]

My pair wherein I think Sakura is strongly town
Sakura Hana & pienyan

IC
Shiro & CheekyTeeky

Null-town pairs
Ausuka & Vecna
Chennisden & Bingle

Leaving
GuyInFreezer & Bitmap
Golden Robster & Ankamius
Firebringer & OkaPoka
Nimueh & Gamma Emerald

GR doesn't really look bad to me even if I find some of his stances worrisome, Ank I don't want to lynch at the moment, Fire has all the meta town reads on him, Oka I think is town, and I don't really want to lynch Nimu/Gamma?

[pienyan]

Pls don't make me take off my gloves and start town-case walling my null town pairs.

[pienyan]

What reasons do people have for Vecna being scum that aren't related to his disappearance/apathy the past few days?

I think Vecna/Ausuka is a scum designated mislynch and I don't think his lack of posts lately is indicative of anything.

[pienyan]

His early iso is also terrible

Can you walk me through it in more depth?

[pienyan]

He plays mafia as town and he plays narrate the game as scum

He's narrating the game

In a vacuum, I don't think this is a fair argument at all. This game has been really fast, he's been behind all game and so I can totally understand trying to catch up and then just getting burned out.

Do you know him to play like this even when he's playing so far behind?

[pienyan]

He was doing this since the beginning of the game???

I remember him catching up, then we talked a little bit about Gamma, he did a few more things, left and when he came back the game had exploded far enough that he couldn't get current again.

[pienyan]

Basically what I'm saying is I think Vecna simply just never was able to get on his feet this game- and for this reason I think he's a really really easy push since duh, of course his posts are going to look bad.

P-edit: I don't really think so? I think how he played was fine, but I don't have a baseline to compare against.

[pienyan]

Spoiler: vecna posts

For page three there is surprisingly little actual content so far

while this is sort of true, the way this slot did just force some replies to at least have some out there felt remarkably less awesome than the rest that has posted before this point.

Shiver-vibes were had

Also Im bitmap none of you can read me suck it. hahahahahahahahahahahaahahawhahahahahahaghuyaeswjkbh asdzjknvdfszkljn;adfsgvkl;jndafvkjn;dfvalldjkn;favdafvzl;jkn

Im gonna actively dislike this slot I think. Also really didnt like the first catchup post from it.

so you aren't that passionate about finding good pairings? you said gif was a tr and I don't see you towrneading bitmap

Really dont get the scumreads here. Such honest crusading

i townread you out of convenience

because you being dead is one less person who townread me

and if you were going to flip before me, I'd establish a decent line of credibility wrt Gamma because I would be right and running against consensus

this is scummy

if ur town u shouldn't care about being townread

hmm

HMMMMMMMMM

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

FOS: Oka

What a load of bullshit. Openly caring about being townread is both a towntell (if youre honest about it without having reason to), and something a whole lot more people should do so they stop sucking and get mislynched all the damn time.

I think Oka looks sort of better now tbh. But people saying he's the type who looks like a lynchbait as town and not as scum throws a wrench in that.

How come? He looks like massive lynchbait. If he looks different as scum then isnt it obvious whats going on here?

I mean who really cares who has checked in or not.

i don't.

we can solve this game together sakura, just u and me.

with me pocketing u along the way, it will be good times by all.

Someone talk to me on this though.

Isnt the ancient FB meta something like this:

Happy, energetic, you-want-to-like-him FB: Scum
Slow, spitefull, makes you feel like he really would rather be stuffing his face with concrete than talking to you FB: Town

These posts all seem fine in terms of scumhunting from a position of having to catch up with the game tbh, and I also liked his interaction with me when he was here. It read like town who genuinely thought most of what I pointed out with GE was simply noise/didn't resonate with him at all.

Do you have any town games of his I can compare this to where he fell behind in a similar way to here? I definitely concede I don't have a good idea of his meta.

[pienyan]

Basically you're saying he's just giving reads on people, but isnt actively sorting them?
I dont understand how that works

This is what I'm saying too- I don't think this "active scumhunting" everyone wants to see from him happens if he's perpetually behind with the game, and what he posted when he was current (i.e. his discussion with me) seemed fine.

[pienyan]

I think I've covered everything from ISO #55 to #72. In between that I remember I also liked him being one of the first to town read Ausuka.

P-edit: Uhm, not really. First he catches up quoting posts as he reads through the thread, then he posts in real time, then later he skims through and only quotes recent stuff when it's important. No?

[pienyan]

*Everything except #55 to #72.

[pienyan]

I'm not really expecting to stop this lynch, but I want serious thought given to what I'm putting down and the composition of the wagon if he does turn out town.

[pienyan]

is pointing out something as noise a town think tho?

I think town often react like that when I go attack mode or wall mode on someone lol.
Scum can do it too, but I think his reaction was genuine.

[pienyan]

I think scum are more likely to appease me when I get like that instead of just being like "ur high".

[pienyan]

*shrug*
Like I said I definitely concede I don't know his meta well. But if he flips town I want to flashlynch my way through Bitmap and Ank in about that order.

[pienyan]

except I'm obvtown

There's some things I find troubling about you that I'll probably keep to myself till it becomes relevant.
If Vecna does flip scum you can be town.

[pienyan]

I assume it's my scumread of you

Actually not.

what happened to ur scumread of me anyways pie?

I gave that up after people told me I had my meta on you wrong. Now I still have you within my POE but I'm sort of just letting everyone else sort you.

[pienyan]

why would you try and flashlynch bitmap and ank based on associatives for the first lynch when its obvious that the chance of hitting scum is low

I think Vecna is a scum designated mislynch, so my goal is to call attention to the pushes on him I think are bad.

and what makes u so sure that this is scum!motivation not just misplaced reads no?

I'll get into this more after Vecna's flip if it's still relevant.

[pienyan]

Remember this?

Note to self: check which players (attempted to) step up their game after the game consensus towards easy win when I have time

Part of this was because I felt like Bitmap was under strong attack kinda suddenly, around when we were pretty much designated endgame pair.
This also strengthens my townread on Bitmap.

...

... You know Bitmap has barely any actual pressure on him right now, right? And the only people who have declared a serious dislike for his posts are me and chen who you have as strong town... ?

But you know who is being pushed seemingly out of nowhere? chen/Bingle, and... Vecna/Ausuka. And you know who's conveniently okay with both lynches? Bitmap.

Why do you actually have a town read on him based on his play? I don't think any of his posts are unfakeable or particularly town at all and I think he's slipped under the radar.

[pienyan]

this was actually when he attacked chenn/bingle

O look, great minds think alike.

[pienyan]

I really can't express in words how out of nowhere this Vecna/Ausuka push actually felt from my POV. People seemed OK enough with them being town, suddenly Ank shows up and just brute forces a wagon on them and it gains a lot of support. I'm concerned about Ank, but this is sketchy af regardless of what her alignment is, really.

Ank, you're sheeping me if Vecna winds up being town, right?

[pienyan]

Also I don't think Gamma/Nimu pair is strong town like other people seem to. The reason is actually cuz of Nimu, not Gamma. I could 100% see scum coming in and WK'ing the hell out of Gamma to get massive towncred for both their slots, and she's done nothing since then.

[pienyan]

I don't think you have a good grasp on what scum!pie is capable of.
But i digress, since she has her hands tied and she's going to have to hard defend whatever scum partner she does have if she's scum.

Ngl if I was scum in this game with you-town I'd pair with you, knowing full well I'd be almost certainly doomed and I'd aim to make sure my partners have as good interactions with me as possible so they could go on to win.

[pienyan]

Also I don't get how Ank's Nimu read went from "she's transparent as either alignment, so I'll wait and see" to "hard town" without Nimu even doing anything in between.

[pienyan]

As I said I saw a glimpse of TNE-town from him. I mean yeah there is nothing of his posts that were unfakeable technically but I never let that bother me because that's like saying wifom on everything.

Can you talk more about this? I know you said this before but honestly I don't get what you actually mean here at all.

[pienyan]

Also if Vecna/Ausuka is a town pair, you agree with me that this sudden push on them is indicative of a scum designated mislynch, right?

[pienyan]

Weren't you okay with pie and sakura being the final pairings as well?

He went and 180'ed his read once he saw me/Sakura was actually getting support for being the endgame pair (on a post that he admitted didn't even seem to have any particular scum motivation, just bad feelsies). I ~wonder~ why.

[pienyan]

Also if Vecna/Ausuka is a town pair, you agree with me that this sudden push on them is indicative of a scum designated mislynch, right?

Yeah.

I'll table this discussion till after the pair flips or the pressure on them dies down then. Like I said I may just be totally wrong on Vecna, so.

*shrug*

P-edit: that was to GIF.

[pienyan]

I'll table this discussion till after the pair flips or the pressure on them dies down then. Like I said I may just be totally wrong on Vecna, so.

Did you have read on Ausuka btw
idr

Yup, I do. I just really don't think the way she's played this looks scummy. She's been trying to game solve in a straightforward and consistent manner doing what she can while she has been here and there's some things she said that idk would come from scum.

[pienyan]

Mostly just how she's approached the pairings. I think it makes a lot of sense for someone who's so behind to just try to pick up a few town reads, see what she can do with the mechanics of the game and call it a day.

Actually now that I think Sakura is town it seems like leaving pie/Sakura and Chen/bingle and Chen leaves if the game doesn't end will win the game?

This post I don't think comes from scum-her with Sakura being town and chen/Bingle being very likely town. Ank said "lul she might backpedal on it later so its not town", but I don't really think that's a reason to discredit the post until and unless she actually does so.

I'm bad and don't really have good reads whee. I think I'll wait for everyone to turn up before I try and get like coherent reads. I mean I won't be tryharding in any case but.

Fb, gif, gamma, ank, pie, chennis seem somewhat towny, then there's obviously cheeky and me. I wouldn't like bet the game on this yet like people are doing though.

Bitmap and golden Rob seem scummiest so far but considering goldenrob's entrance I doubt that's right

if croag townspews at least a little I want to dance with her.

Then I sort of liked this, but that's not a strong point.

[pienyan]

Now unless I'm misremembering again wasn't this after when people went "ayup sakura is obvtown?" Because if so it supports my point instead of her just skating by with popular opinions.

It read to me like she was okay with seriously committing to it I guess. It would be too telling if she said something like that so firmly and then just backpedaled out of it later.

[pienyan]

That's how her play read to me in general tbh. Struggling to keep a hold in the game but being serious and owning the reads she did wind up with.

[pienyan]

Did I mention Oka is town? Cuz he is.

[pienyan]

I don't think she will backpedal at all at this point because no one is going to go "oh Sakura might be scum"

Then if it weren't for the fact Sakura's going to leave, what would she have actually done if her pair wound up in endgame with us? She'd basically be screwing herself as scum.

[pienyan]

That post was after Sakura's leave threat so I don't think that argument holds.

Uhm it most definitely was not.

Actually now that I think Sakura is town it seems like leaving pie/Sakura and Chen/bingle and Chen leaves if the game doesn't end will win the game?

It's ok Ank.
I've made a pact with pie that i'm not letting her win as scum and so im leaving the dance if we ever reach MyLo.
So her job is to find and lynch the other 2 scum before that happens.

Her post was in predance, Sakura's leave threat was at the start of the dayphase.

[pienyan]

Her post was in predance, Sakura's leave threat was at the start of the dayphase.

She did mention leaving a lot during pre-game too.
I guess it's not really a "threat" per se but you get my jist.

So she'd basically be banking on Sakura leaving.

Idk? I still think that's sort of a risky thing to do as scum.

[pienyan]

And pie experienced first hand my paranoia on a dance game, well more like, she had me as potential endgame pair and i got paranoid of mastina and left the dance, first dance too.
And that basically probably costed us the game.

Fuck that game. -.-

[pienyan]

So pie. We just learned how Ausuka operates as scum.
She is willing to set herself as a fodder and have someone else win for her. I think that demolishes your "she'd be taking a risk as scum by setting herself in endgame with my pair" argument.

I don't think I'm making my point clear, sorry. The point is more I just don't think a scum her pushes like that to get two pairs who I'm pretty sure are both town to endgame. It's just a really anti-scum action in general and it doesn't even need to be her who survives.

[pienyan]

I guess it's sort of a moot point at this point, but I think Ausuka's latest posting looks town. -.-

[pienyan]

why is bitmap scum and not just very silly town

I don't want to make too much noise about it until either Vecna/Ausuka flips and I get confirmation one way or the other, or the pressure on them dies down (since while this screams scum designated mislynch to me I may be flat out wrong about Vecna and so I don't really intend to try to stop their lynch). But the way Bitmap in particular went about this looks really disingenuous to me, not like town being silly. His progression on our pair does not hold up when you actually try to break it down, analyze his thought processes and try to find his motivation from a town POV compared to a scum one.

Dw. If it's still relevant after Vecna pair flips you can bet I'll go full attack mode and break it down in-depth.

[pienyan]

Christ GE.

I really want to believe you're town but it's hard when you make posts like that. *sigh*

[pienyan]

Vecna if you're town you need to show it, fast. You're at L-2 and I don't have the sway to stop your lynch even if I was sure enough on you two being town to.

[pienyan]

Has Ank secretly been a Wisdom alt this whole time?

[pienyan]

Hey Ank. When this flips t/t you're sheeping me next lynch, right?

[pienyan]

It's frankly sort of awful how you just went and brute forced this wagon through off surface level bullshit pure Wisdom style. I don't get how you think he's going to flip scum now that he showed up and actually is starting to do what you've wanted him to do the entire damn game.

[pienyan]

And well. Your read on me is also trash, so ~forgive~ me if I don't believe in what you're putting down with this read either.

[pienyan]

geez

[pienyan]

You know I wanted a towngame of his where he was behind like this so I could try to understand your meta read here and you never even gave me one, right?

[pienyan]

Frankly if anything, 1) I'm starting to get sort of paranoid on Ausuka so I'm not 100% if leaving this pair alive is even good and 2) my reads at the moment are POE so I can't just pick out a pair with scum in it anyway unless I'm right about Bitmap.

[pienyan]

because as you two keep ignoring, he had a sizable portion of his ISO where he WAS caught up, and he did the exact same thing

This is the Wisdom logic I hate. He was caught up for a total of like less than a RL day, and like I said I liked at the very least some of the stuff he did while he was.

And no he did not play the same way when he was behind vs when he was caught up and then behind again.

[pienyan]

I know you want to think he did, but he didn't.