Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Pine]

We’ve already gone through this. You aren’t. Technically, no agreement is binding.

[Pine]

Ugh that’s annoying I was having a fun idea

I’m listening

[Pine]

Also didn't the rules change and now we got no twilight?? Mena's probably getting shot after getting the info

There’s only no twilight if there’s no mechanical reason for it. Fruit distribution and usage counts.

[Pine]

Ugh that’s annoying I was having a fun idea

I’m listening

Well like I don’t think it works given that binding commitments aren’t allowed

Also not sure if it would actually be hilariously scumsiding because I didn’t think about the possibilities of it

But what I was wondering about was a commitment to giving you my vote at a future point

So for instance, in 2 days from now or 3 days from now

Nah today’s good

[Pine]

I'm not even sure what significant setup knowledge could possibly be so gamechanging that it makes someone who is in our poe town

Truth: The information in the Informed fruit has the potential to hardclear someone in your PoE.

When you say this, can you clarify that you mean the PoE that ali has said that e is working within as opposed to the technical PoE (I.e. everyone other than SS/dunn)

The PoE that e posted that had six names in it

[Pine]

Id love to see where Pine was derailing my wagon tbh. Fuckin tree has been encouraging it almost the entire game, although its mostly been subtly since day 1 failed attempt.

Lol dude, encouraging wagons is my MAIN tool to derail them

Silly coldwoofer

[Pine]

Shut up, icecat

[Pine]

what kind of hidden info left about this setup are we expecting to be informed about exactly?

There’s quite a bit of non-public information! Scum power setup, the full functions of fruit, restrictions and limits on my power...any one of those would be valuable.

[Pine]

So pine do you wanna do this deal

I haven’t decided.

[Pine]

How about we just keep this bargain open for now. On the table, as it were.

[Pine]

Nah

[Pine]

So’s your face

[Pine]

We are now officially the second largest Large game on site.

Technically the count starts at D1 start, so there’s a few posts to go, but...yeah.

Fite me, Civ Mafia

[Pine]

Trees are cool with it

[Pine]

I don’t need to control his vote

[Pine]

It means I haven’t decided, and don’t care to share my plans with you.

[Pine]

Before

[Pine]

So what was stopping you from making all of the scum deathproof godfather roleblocker strongmen?

I was just wondering if it's possible that Jingle put in a town tracker to interact with the scum visitor.

I had *influence* over the scum powers but not final cut in this version. Jingle mostly gave me what I wanted, but the Commuter and Visitor were his idea. He has a thing for Commuters, I think, and the Visitor is straight up negative utility, designed to provide bait for the Tracker and Reflexive Watcher, plus Tracker and Watcher fruits.

[Pine]

...and the Visitor is straight up negative utility, designed to provide bait for the Tracker

"Oh whoops I guess I fucked up and Pink Ball is conftown now"

Sorry my bad

Pink floof definitely scum ball

[Pine]

Ehhh

I treated it as such, because I think it was meant that way. I also had paranoid concerns about a PGO or something. Let it never be said that I game the system.

“Ha, you gave us a negative utility that we’ll never use!”

[Pine]

Nonsense. The visitor can trigger watchers and trackers and get caught for the “wrong reasons” very easily. Besides, it’s not actually compulsive, so it’s not clearing them. PP actually did jail S_S, as we were concerned the instruction was a trap - thinking that S_S was a PR who would reveal that his action had gone through the night PP was supposed to jail him

[Pine]

[Pine]

I think it’s time to lunch Dann

Not a typo

[Pine]

Nah

[Pine]

Truth:

The only lethal fruit is the vig fruit.

[Pine]

am i and wooper the only ones nodding their heads and going "yep yep, thats theater"

no I am also nodding my head

Same. What are we nodding about?

[Pine]

A Gamma lynch would really hit the spot, like daiquiris in late summer.

[Pine]

If we win you should have a pretend day phase where we lynch pine

Itd be like a jrpg ending

[Pine]

Maybe you should compromise and lynch no one.

[Pine]

Only the Vigfruit was lethal.

We don't know this, because all Jingle will verify is that "none of the other fruits are lethal for SOME definition of lethal."

Jingle’s definitions may vary, but mine do not. I have told the truth with regard to fruit without exception.

[Pine]

Jingle’s definitions may vary, but mine do not. I have told the truth with regard to fruit without exception.

Then can you rephrase both that line and the "governor fruit spoils" line in a completely unambiguous way?

I don’t know what Jingle is on about. Here is the full text of the Gov fruit, minus the pic I’m too lazy to copy over:

1 Shot Governor Image - Twilight Activation: When the player activates this fruit the person being lynched is instead not lynched. Pine may force the activation of this fruit by posting Govern: Playername in the scum PT during the twilight phase. This fruit spoils if there are ever 2 or fewer more town players than scum players living.

The <REDACTED> and Governor will be removed from the pool if it is possible to be in XLO the next day. Once the Governor has been rolled, it cannot be rolled again.

[Pine]

I don’t know what Jingle is on about.

He's on about the word "spoils." Once spoiled, is it permanently unusable?

I feel the answer is self-evident.

[Pine]

I didn't.

[Pine]

I am no one apparently

Truth

[Pine]

[Pine]

The next available fruit will grant the consumer a 1-shot Roleblocker ability.

This shot must be used the night after it is received.

This is the image associated with the fruit:

[Pine]

Oh why not.

The next available fruit will grant the consumer a 1-shot Rolecop ability.

This shot must be used the night after it is received.

This is the image associated with the fruit:

[Pine]

can you give these fruits for free?

I set the terms for bargaining. Anyone not following my rules will be denied the blessings I offer, whose power only grows with fewer valid targets.

[Pine]

no

[Pine]

[Pine]

Still kinda boring.

[Pine]

WAIT A MINUTE
ARE YOU SAYING YOU LIKE SEEING HIM BULLY ME

Ya

[Pine]

I’m getting the sense you are massively out of touch with the game

No shit, Sherlock.

I'm really not wrong about Pine though. This setup is so scumsided he doesn't have to be proactive to win, so he can (and will) just be annoying.

It's really not scumsided. We eliminated a lot of the major Town powers early (Hider, Vig, Bodyguard), many of the others were used to our advantage (Desperado, Hider and Vig again), avoided a bunch of pitfalls (we identified the Watcher trap N2 iirc), identified the Masons almost immediately, and conned you people into working against your own self-interest.

Despite all of that, we're DROWNING in confirmed or near-confirmed Town, and if not for one Aristophanes-level deepwolf, would lose this game HARD.

[Pine]

What jailkeeper? That was a 1-shot fruit.

Dude, seriously, you're prejudging the setup before it's actually revealed. It's not Jingle's fault that we're playing a mechanically brilliant game and Town squandered its advantages.

[Pine]

Town used its resources ineffectively. That isn't the balance's problem.

[Pine]

Yyyeeeeeah let’s table this for postgame. You don’t know what you’re talking about yet.

[Pine]

VOTE: Firebringer

Spicy

[Pine]

more votes make me more powerful

That would be a really interesting role/game idea

[Pine]

We should run that game together sometime soon hotdog

[Pine]

Holy shit that worked

[Pine]

its probably "Pine can only give fruit to scum once" and he gave the JK fruit to PP

Nope. I can still give fruit to scum if I like. In fact, I’m giving one to scum tonight.

[Pine]

its probably "Pine can only give fruit to scum once" and he gave the JK fruit to PP

Fire got the fruit at the same time with PP right? Must be that Pine can't give both fruits to scum the same day, so Mena is cleared now.

Thanks for the info Pine

I’ve never given Menalque fruit.

[Pine]

just swingin' by to say i still love pine's theatrics.

Aww, thanks guppy

[Pine]

Sure

[Pine]

The next person (besides Pine himself) to say that Pine spewed anything is scum.

Thanks bruh

[Pine]

Masons make delicious fertilizer! Yummmmm...

[Pine]

VOTE: mariar
yes

EXTRA spicy!

[Pine]

VOTE: mariar
yes

That may be our wincon, boys and girl

[Pine]

Oops! Wrong thread. Nothing to see here.

[Pine]

I'll analyse it when I'm home. I think you should put 0 serious weight into it. It might be true. It might not. It's more an interesting titbit than anything that will win the game.

Pine definitely meant it to impact you/other vca fans lol I should actually vca a little

pedit: I'm not really sure sorry

we should be able to compare all of the statements of
There is one scum in {Pink Ball, Mena, PP}
There is one scum in {Krazy, Iconeum}
There was an all town wagon
There was an all scum wagon

And figure out what is a lie via just deduction

Only two of those statements were true.

Have fun!

[Pine]

Kinda wish Pine conceded :/

That was never on the table. It was very close, but the race was run. Finish it out.

[Pine]

Hmmmm incorrect

[Pine]

Okay sure Pine
Who is ur scumteam then

You’re going to be upset

[Pine]

That does not make sense, grammatically speaking.

[Pine]

/me lights a joint

[Pine]

Oh good lord!

[Pine]

why am i listed 4 times

Because you took out Ankamius, who apparently nailed us in the dead PT

[Pine]

fruit mechanic bad.
treestump doc bad.

everything else is meh.

good work job pine, you outplayed us good.

The fruit mechanic was fine. You folks shouldn't have traded so dearly for the fruit. I was willing to part with them for much less than you gave.

[Pine]

What were your roles/factional powers?

jailkeeper + visitor

And Commuter. Krazy/Cephrir were technically Informed, but that was just formalizing fakeclaims.

[Pine]

I mostly just feel really sad

Gonna take a lil break from here I think

Duuuuude, no way. You did really quite well. I thoroughly enjoy playing with you. Day Six (the Temptation of Menalque) was one of the most dramatic moments of the whole game!

[Pine]

WHAT MARIA WASN'T A DOC

[Pine]

Let's not dwell on Day One. It's already hurt too many people.

Ali, I think you did entirely fine in a tough position, and commend you for taking on a Sisyphean task, then nearly pulling it off. On D6, you had correct strong Townreads on Maria and Menalque, and mech clears on nearly everyone save Fire and Gamma, plus scumreads on the entire scumteam minus Iconeum. We thought we were headed for extra innings, which would have given loads of time for the Doc save and flips to swing things against us. This was a LOT closer than it looked.

[Pine]

The fruit mechanic was fine. You folks shouldn't have traded so dearly for the fruit. I was willing to part with them for much less than you gave.

There was nothing wrong with the fruit mechanic, for sure, aside from the cancerous governor fruit. The game really didn't provide players with much of a means to bargain; some of the bargains were interesting but most weren't.

I agree; in hindsight, the governor fruit was not great, and frankly giving it to Firebringer was not a good choice for the health of the game.

the bargaining was exceptionally boring.

every bargain was like for a vote. It was like why even have it be called bargain when all pine cared about was taking our votes.

Except for penguin who he just made do gifs but he was his scum ally

Yeah, well, you folks kept giving me whatever I wanted and never offered anything worthwhile. Bargaining is meant to be a two-way street. I'd have sold them for FAR less than you gave, which ought to have been evident from the bargains I made D1.

[Pine]

while I agree the setup is slightly scumsided I think 2 masons + ari + weak hider + strongman doc is a lot of mech town and a reliable way of protecting mech town.

Vig + desp + 2 masons + hider is maybe six mech town in an optimistic scenario, but it's really easy for the scum to figure out the masons, as I said, because the message mechanic and Ali being a doc and knowing the masons encourages the game to devolve into "everyone sheep Ali."

It was easy to figure out the Masons because they didn't bother hiding.

PE: Especially the way Ali abused the hell out of it

[Pine]

Official game length: 13510 posts

[Pine]

Vig + desp + 2 masons + hider is maybe six mech town in an optimistic scenario,

6 mech town on day 2, if the hider stays alive they can win the game for town tho.

Ankamius dying N1 really REALLY broke our way. That could have significantly changed the game, especially with us not having a Strongman kill.

[Pine]

while I agree the setup is slightly scumsided I think 2 masons + ari + weak hider + strongman doc is a lot of mech town and a reliable way of protecting mech town.

Vig + desp + 2 masons + hider is maybe six mech town in an optimistic scenario, but it's really easy for the scum to figure out the masons, as I said, because the message mechanic and Ali being a doc and knowing the masons encourages the game to devolve into "everyone sheep Ali."

It was easy to figure out the Masons because they didn't bother hiding.

PE: Especially the way Ali abused the hell out of it

I mean aside from slipping it while interacting with LLD btw, masons are usually hard to keep hidden when its especially known that ur a mason. I'm not sure how I was supposed to do that with how I played the game.

YOU did fine. The Masons were not, themselves, hiding.

When the scum PT is released, you can see what lengths I went trying to POE the Masons to be sure, even though we picked them out by the end of D1.

Trying to figure out how/whether to release Discord content. We had SO much more in there than out of it.

[Pine]

The Scumteam of Pine, Dannflor, Lady Lambdadelta, Pink Floof, Iconeum, Dannflor, Penguin Power, Dannflor, Cephrir, and Dannflor has won!

Do not ever talk down to me again

Your reads were actually pretty on point, Gamma. You've got to be a lot more confident in prosecuting them.

[Pine]

Your reads were actually pretty on point, Gamma. You've got to be a lot more confident in prosecuting them.

gamma had reads?

My point exactly. He did, and they were pretty good, but no one listened.

[Pine]

D6 Ali was actually the closest of anyone.

[Pine]

Your reads were actually pretty on point, Gamma. You've got to be a lot more confident in prosecuting them.

gamma had reads?

My point exactly. He did, and they were pretty good, but no one listened.

no they weren't lol

Stop being an asshole, warmpup.

[Pine]

I apologize for my role in this game

You were and are beautiful

You were wonderful. We were afraid of you. I think you, Titus, and JJH are the only people we targeted because we were worried about their reads and influence, everyone else was mech.

[Pine]

Rising Star
10/30/19	Pine	Menalque	Alisae V Pine: An Epic Quest!	Menalque is a splendid example of a Rising Star candidate. Although he is new to our community as of this summer, only a few months later he has already made a significant and favorable impression. I had the distinct pleasure of playing with him in two of his first games on Mafiascum - in Newbie 1934: Tundra as an opponent and in Pokemon Ruby as his mentor in scum tactics. He has the rare talent of both standing out as obvious Town when he is and blending into the background when he is scum, while still not giving ground on a meta front. On top of that, he is a pleasure to play with, both against and in concert, and has seamlessly joined our wider community. Finally, in Alisae V Pine, Menalque gamely stepped up to the plate against some of MafiaScum's most experienced players and acquitted himself adroitly and with class. Welcome, Menalque!

[Pine]

Jjh wqd partly mech cause I thought he was bus driver kekeke

Yeah, but he was the only player all game who really managed to make fruit work for him, rather than me. I gave away a LOT more than I intended to to his questions and shrewd interpretations. We thought he might be a PR, but I wanted him SILENCED.

[Pine]

Rising Star
10/30/19	Pine	Menalque	Alisae V Pine: An Epic Quest!	Menalque is a splendid example of a Rising Star candidate. Although he is new to our community as of this summer, only a few months later he has already made a significant and favorable impression. I had the distinct pleasure of playing with him in two of his first games on Mafiascum - in Newbie 1934: Tundra as an opponent and in Pokemon Ruby as his mentor in scum tactics. He has the rare talent of both standing out as obvious Town when he is and blending into the background when he is scum, while still not giving ground on a meta front. On top of that, he is a pleasure to play with, both against and in concert, and has seamlessly joined our wider community. Finally, in Alisae V Pine, Menalque gamely stepped up to the plate against some of MafiaScum's most experienced players and acquitted himself adroitly and with class. Welcome, Menalque!

FWIW, if Mena had agreed to Pine's offer to set him up for a Rising Star scummy by following through on the deal, I would antinom this. As is, I support it.

I was going to nom him anyway. I wanted to see how he did playing with the big dogs. The mention of Rising Star in the temptation was simply another carrot to dangle in front of him.

Frankly, that he took stock and rejected the bait is evidence of his worthiness.

[Pine]

Rising Star
10/30/19	Pine	Menalque	Alisae V Pine: An Epic Quest!	Menalque is a splendid example of a Rising Star candidate. Although he is new to our community as of this summer, only a few months later he has already made a significant and favorable impression. I had the distinct pleasure of playing with him in two of his first games on Mafiascum - in Newbie 1934: Tundra as an opponent and in Pokemon Ruby as his mentor in scum tactics. He has the rare talent of both standing out as obvious Town when he is and blending into the background when he is scum, while still not giving ground on a meta front. On top of that, he is a pleasure to play with, both against and in concert, and has seamlessly joined our wider community. Finally, in Alisae V Pine, Menalque gamely stepped up to the plate against some of MafiaScum's most experienced players and acquitted himself adroitly and with class. Welcome, Menalque!

wait...

didn't you tell menalque who to vote for, and then he did? now u are nomming him for an award?

I feel like this is really out of place and might be inappropriate somehow but i don't know if i can express how well.

Dude, Fire, read the game. He torched my offer and outed it. That he then STILL voted you is more about you than him.

Self-awareness, but pupper.

[Pine]

My pupper*

Sorry, am I not allowed to call you that? I'm a tree. I don't want to be insensitive.

[Pine]

Can we give GI and LLD a joint "please don't get mad at each other because of this stupid game" scummy

I'd rather just give them hugs.

[Pine]

Dude, Fire, read the game. He torched my offer and outed it. That he then STILL voted you is more about you than him.Self-awareness, but pupper.

no my point is he played exactly how you wanted him to, i have no idea why you think this is scummy material and it confuses me.

Stop looking at one tree and see the forest. Rising Star is a body of work award, and I was interested in Menalque before this game ever started.

[Pine]

Also Pine keeps getting portrayed as the villain, I feel like he’s a very interesting hero too

Damn straight. I keep getting kidnapped, chased, and invaded in these games. I'm the victim in all of this!

[Pine]

I disagree

o snap

[Pine]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuck the amount of posting in this game

Right?! You got out while the getting was good.

[Pine]

Whatever happened to the days when Gay Mafia 1 was a Large Theme we disposed of in a satisfying way in 30-something pages?

[Pine]

Games are shitpostier now.

[Pine]

I don't hate it, except that it's inherently pointed against those who do get tilted. I'll write something up for the SSC.

[Pine]

I've long thought we should do something for those who promote positivity and community health. Maybe that's it.

[Pine]

Nerds

[Pine]

I'll analyse it when I'm home. I think you should put 0 serious weight into it. It might be true. It might not. It's more an interesting titbit than anything that will win the game.

Pine definitely meant it to impact you/other vca fans lol I should actually vca a little

pedit: I'm not really sure sorry

we should be able to compare all of the statements of
There is one scum in {Pink Ball, Mena, PP}
There is one scum in {Krazy, Iconeum}
There was an all town wagon
There was an all scum wagon

And figure out what is a lie via just deduction

Only two of those statements were true.

Have fun!

This is a good example of my favorite kind of WIFOM, for future reference. Only one of those statements is true - DGB was an all-Town lynch. We tried to make Chennisden an all-scum lynch, but it didn’t happen.

Tell the truth, but tweak it at the last minute so it’s not quite accurate.

[Pine]

There were two scum in {PB, Mena, PP} and two in {Krazy, Iconeum}. The “all scum” thing was based on a statement that the entire scum team had been on a lynch, not that only scum had been on one.

[Pine]

The first game didn’t have Mason or Townstump at all. This originally had one, but as the size grew I offered Ali a second Mason to compensate.

Really, I don’t think it’s clear how close this was to mathematically solved. On D6, you had as many confirmed Townies as you did scum, and that’s down a Mason with the Hider clearing no one.

[Pine]

I enjoy a high-stakes challenge.

[Pine]

The only truly Faustian bargains this game were with Titus and Menalque. I had high hopes that someone would try to pressure me right back on bargaining.

I want to retain the bargaining aspect next time, but it needs to be a little more transparent.

[Pine]

The Temptation of Menalque (tm) is the only time I used Jinglenet for attempted mechanical advantage.

[Pine]

You did fine, Menalque. In particular, you were pretty Towny and made several solid critical choices. Being defeated in honorable battle is no shame.

[Pine]

Oh I did. Grey and Kats were top suspects, and we shot Grey N1 because of it. The Great Mason Hunt was a POE effort to confirm and find the other one.

[Pine]

Yawwwwn

[Pine]

Dude

Firebringer

Fuck off

You are really crossing a line here