Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[farside22]

First scum read thus far VOTE: chkflip.

[farside22]

Ooh spicy. Care to share reasons, farside?

He talked about the role pm first, which i thought was sarcasm. His second post has a vote on a bw, but the reason makes no sense.

VOTE: votato

Rampage is bussing.

This sells abr scum for bussing. I find his vote here is just a way to get onto the wagon.

[farside22]

Only 3 townguns. Clearly firebringer is scum else it would be 4 townguns

VOTE: firebringer

What makes you think fire isn't one of the three?

[farside22]

I feel like I'm missing something

[farside22]

farside, it was a joke

Are 5.5 roses and 5.5 guns optimal

I feel like I'm missing something

Youre missing the ability to reason logically. UNVOTE: votatoVOTE: farside only scum would be such humorless illogical people.

Well it's way over my head. *shrug*

[farside22]

Because he has a gun, clearly

if he has a gun he must be scum. if he were a town gun, there'd be four town guns.

Why aren't there 9 town roses then? Do you think he's fakeclaiming rose as scum?

Where did the claim happen?

[farside22]

fair enough. I've taken a peek at a few recent games to give me some idea of what to expect. from what I've gleaned its basically several hundred pages of shitposting followed by random voting and whoever is the best at making up a compelling story controls the vote. you just hope that the storytellers are on your team.

You forgot about all the infighting. Very different from shit posting.

[farside22]

Don't talk about ongoing games votato.

Those slips are faker than pro wrestling wtf.

More votes on this will get you into my goodwill.
Also lilith, less tunneling. Ss is at least responding and trying to engage.
Unlike chk who is poking with unless garbage.

[farside22]

Id vote cakes too.
Fire you are being warned to do something more.

[farside22]

Unlike chk who is poking with unless garbage.

I don't see anything wrong with not engaging yet, he only has a handful of posts and the game is still young.

Apparently my poking is making someone testy so I'm pretty happy with my vote, since i did explain my reason for finding his vote suspect.

Id vote cakes too.
Fire you are being warned to do something more.

I can do more but it’s against my religion.

I have a strategy this game and it involves the guns outing to be confirmed ICs

I'm going to let this go but i see a down side.

[farside22]

Apparently my poking is making someone testy so I'm pretty happy with my vote, since i did explain my reason for finding his vote suspect.

Fair enough, I suppose. Though it doesn't seem like you've inspired him to engage with you.

I disagree.

What are those supposed to mean?

Links for his past games. I haven't checked them all but i wonder if he included scum games

[farside22]

So that means you roll scum 1/3 games on average. That's slightly higher than base chance.

farside, why was chkflip's initial vote suspect?

[farside22]

So that means you roll scum 1/3 games on average. That's slightly higher than base chance.

farside, why was chkflip's initial vote suspect?

Sorry I have a bad habit of pushing the wrong button without thinking.
Here is what I said earlier:

Ooh spicy. Care to share reasons, farside?

He talked about the role pm first, which i thought was sarcasm. His second post has a vote on a bw, but the reason makes no sense.

VOTE: votato

Rampage is bussing.

This sells abr scum for bussing. I find his vote here is just a way to get onto the wagon.

My read intensified with this post:

Don't talk about ongoing games votato.

Those slips are faker than pro wrestling wtf.

He continues the push on something that didn't happen and jumps on the slips discussion that he said nothing about when brought up earlier.

[farside22]

Oh man I better up my post count and talk about every little thing the moment it comes up or I'm scum.

Hahahaha

My vote does sell ABR for bussing and I gotta say farside I'm so proud of you for reading three words and interpreting them

so well

. I'm teary.

Of all the votes, Rammy's was the first that was legitimate. Why? What happened by page two (I think?) that made Rambalam to go "nah they scum"? If x, then y. And I'm absolutely going to help him bus his partner and go for him D2. I believe they're both scum as of that post and nothing has happened to change my mind there. It's pretty simple stuff but apparently it doesn't make sense to you so I have to hold your fucking hand. Cool.

51 reads like an extension of an RVS vote. That's so far from what I'd consider pressure that I forgot it even existed.

I am immune to your sarcasm. It doesn't really win me over.
Can I introduce to a book called how to make friend and influence others?

I think the whole idea that people are pushing for votato looks opportunistic and an excuse.
Is it early to make calls? Yup.
Do I care? Nope
Whatever moves the game out of RVS makes me a happy person.

Tbh I don’t trust ABR reads whatsoever so that basically means votato is conftown for me

MEEEOOOOWWWWW
That said I would go for an ABR vote too.

[farside22]

Hard and immediate backtrack noted.

Still reading as trying too hard.

[farside22]

Hard and immediate backtrack noted.

Still reading as trying too hard.

Idk if u read chkflip posts in other games this is kind of just his personality ur seeing.

Not really alignment indicative

mmmmmmm
*spidy sense tingle begins*

[farside22]

Paragon is a town read.

A few more post from all players and I should have it figured out before day 1 is over.

[farside22]

Sure SC. I'll be your buttercup.

Your attack on SS reads fabricated. You are basically taking a point on SS and creating a false narrative

S_S just reads off. Like he's trying to defuse pressure but not too obviously.

What part of 77 or 100 isn't obvious in its intent to defuse pressure?

It's like kinda AtE, kinda "haha wagon on me"
No outright "why am I being wagoned?"

now lets read SS as a take away.

Spoiler:

sadly I think you may have rolled scum my friend

Sure, 3/13 chance from your POV.

I really can't imagine how you already have a read on my zero game-relevant posts that's much different from that.

Lilith, I have a bad feeling that you don't know me as well as you think you do.

There's definitely some E in there, the E being mild frustration. But there's no A to it.

Seems to me that it was obvious enough that I wanted to hear your reasoning, but I guess I can be more explicit. What did you not like about me circa 59?

Also, you didn't say I was subtly wanting to know why I was being wagoned. You said I was subtly trying to defuse the wagon. Those are two different things, and both of those quotes outright say "your read on me is not justified." Even if I wasn't overtly trying to UNDERSTAND the wagon, I was overtly trying to prevent it.

There was no A at all in the post that were reference.
Nothing since then is really showing why you continue you read on the spot. You just want to egg on something that is not there and ride it out.
No where do I see anything other then antagonizing a player to react while not scum hunting.

[farside22]

@chk: in regards to post
First comment I was being sarcastic.
2) Being a SK is a long way from scum. Keeping the newb alive is an easy vote for scum. Second why are you voting for votato knowing he is a newb?
3) Your vote is more serious and apparently you want to make it a thing

And I will have chk on ignore for as long as I can for the remainder of the game.

vote: Cakez

[farside22]

newb =/= newb!town

Newb is newb. He will scum slip hard if he is scum.
Serious question. Have you seen a newb fake a townslip?

[farside22]

Newb is not just newb. There are definitive differences between newb!town "I don't understand how mafia works" and newb!scum "het guys I'm new watch me make these GeNuInE mIsTaKeS" and I absolutely do not believe you don't understand the difference. We can agree to disagree on extracting what we believe happened there, I'm 100% okay with that, but newb is not just newb.

To answer your question, yes. I have 100% seen people fake the dumbest shit. Before you ask for links, no. I'm not dredging through three pages of game links to find the times I saw it happen to satisfy you.

Thats fair. I could be wrong. Day 1 rvs bw on scum are rare so im typically against them.

Actually, chkflip is doing the non-RVS version of my vote on farside, so ill UNVOTE: farside and instead VOTE: chkflip. I'm probably wrong, because I automatically read twats as scum, but im getting a pretty big clue here

Spoiler:

I am predicting some big fights in your future.

Tentatively, I’d say farside, Something_Smart, firebringer, ABR, and votato are all town. Least confident on ABR there, but I have no real experience with him first hand so I may be incorrectly reading him playing in a fairly relaxed manner as him being town. Which I know is the opposite of his reputation, but I think scum!ABR may feel more pressured to act in line with his high pressure reputation, thereby making his relaxation actually in favour of town him.

Farside, what do you see in paragon that’s townie? I have something gut pinging me town there but not enough for me to really call the slot as town.

Lilith I’m holding back on for now, not sure.

Chkflip is my top for scum among the posting slots, but I want to interact more there. They may not be a bad lynch even if town.

All the other slots haven’t produced enough content yet to be read.

ABR, farside, S_S: what do you make of Lilith so far?

I like paragons points on abr. Its a soft town read, but ill take what i can early on. I think lilith is town. If she is this carefree and relaxed as scum I would give her a big high 5 and nom for best scum.
I am concerned fire hasnt obvious town yet

[farside22]

Okay, so my question stands: why bussing and not just ABR being ABR?

I'm not inherently against the idea, it's obviously a hip-drawn read at best, that's just where I'm at currently.

Hmm, momo is posting a elsewhere on site but chose not to respond to his role PM in this game. Also, firebringer appears to be happy.

Don't be that guy.

Thats fair. I could be wrong. Day 1 rvs bw on scum are rare so im typically against them.

I'm having difficulty understanding your progression on why you're against lynching votato when you've just gone from "newb is newb" to this. Would you mind elaborating?

I see your point, i just don't have the same read on it as you do.
Currently i read him as just very immature, which isn't an alignment thing.

[farside22]

It was gut earlier. But it has solidified since.

What caused the read to solidify, SirCakez? How would you expect Something_Smart to react to the votes on him if his alignment were town? I think his 77 was indirectly asking you how you had a read on his mostly contentless posts thus far.

^This!!!!!!!!
Thank you for saying what I had trouble saying.

Albert, why is votato obvscum?

Lilith, why do you townread Cakez?

The way that Cakes described his scumread and tried to explain why he was scumreading SS lines up with the way I was feeling about SS's posts. I don't think Cakes was able to clearly articulate the scumread in a way that makes sense to others, and I myself have not attempted to do so because it would likely garner the same kind of reaction Cakes got. I still believe my SS read is correct, therefore I am leaning Cakes being town since I think how he came to this read is similar to how I came to mine. I would be surprised if a scum!Cakes happened to be on such a similar wavelength to me.

Your vote is looking lonely and unused there, eyestort. Do you fancy joining me on cakez? He essentially sheeped someone else who gut read Something_Smart as scum without giving any reasons for it.

Cakes gave more reason than I ever did, are you scumreading him/why are you scumreading him over me?

Cakez push reads as trying too hard and making shit up. You read more inquisitive and pushy at SS with the back and forth.

Ahhh yes the "If I was scum" argument. Classic.

Definitely not complete WIFOM bullshit.

You are on my town list.

I think mass claim is fine given how few guns we have and how many roses there are. Just don't claim night.

Its really fine. 3 ICs is good.

Bad Fire. Bad!

do people think this is an actual plot by scum or just like a strategy u disagree with? because saying its a plot by scum is kind of stupid if u ask me.

I suggested the exact same thing.

I don't see it as a plot by scum.

you're right, scum could make a play for a scenario we all agree is worse for them. its possible. but realistically, they split 1/2 gun/rose. then if nothing goes wrong its 1/4 chance of hitting scum. if things get messed up because a townie fakeclaims or night actions mess things up, the odds go downhill. Plus we are hoping that the guns get their shots off night 1, which we cant count on.

Okay, let's suppose you are town and you chose a gun. Tell me realistically what night would you choose.

People in favour of massclaim(not exactly a full claim, only claiming whether you have a gun or not)

1. Knighmare491
2. FB

People not in favour

1. Scumtott
2. chkflip
3. Lillith
4 farside

add myself to the not doing it list.

Listen. Having ICs and all would be great, but I think if we wait a day or two and have less players the pool is less and better for the town.

Think of it this way. We lynch today and it is a town lynch we have 13 players to look through. Some gun players will have either night 1 or night 2 shots (DO NOT FUCKING CLAIM YOUR DAY) Maybe as far as 4. The point being less players and a person who shot will give a lot more info as the days go on and by letting the scum know who is carrying a gun you are giving them the opportunity at a free shot at town.

[farside22]

Better odds of lynching scum during the day 3/11 instead if 3/14 and, better odds of vig shooting scum with 3/10 odd if there is a town lynch day 1 and 3/11 if there is a scum lynch day 1 far outweighs the benefit of not mass claiming unless we consider your tinfoil hat theory.

What about picking Rose? You can't say X gun person shots at scum pool and then believe that player didn't pick that night as well.

Yes I know the odds.

[farside22]

@farside, could you vote for nightmare please?

I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.

EBWOP:

Scum reads:

Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott

Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez

A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,

[farside22]

First line should be knightmare isn't scum.
*sigh* I actually was trying to preview post for once.

[farside22]

farside i am considering claiming just to troll u.

talk me out of it

Troll away.
What I want is obvious town fire.
What is your thoughts on knightmare?

[farside22]

i have a rose

I have no words.

What is your thoughts on knightmare?

ehhh i guess town for same reasons u gave. although u said it wasn't really NAI, him heavy pushing it against resistance was townie

if i was really hunting for scum i would look in the people pushing him for his heavy pushing him because scum like to go for the low hanging fruit push that is knightmare rn.

Don Corleon kind of has me pinged that way

True in regards to knight.
I like your thought process for don.

[farside22]

I don't think it's as bad as I initially thought, since previous iterations do show there's never been more than one N1 gun, but the risk is still there so idk. Giving scum guaranteed killshots is still pretty bad for the slightly better lynchpool odds.

I still think it is best to wait at least one game day. See what transpires into day 2 before mass claiming. Less players in the game, having town gun hide out in the game and scum needs to scramble who to kill.
Any n1 gunmen who shot and no one dies could claim then.

[farside22]

@lilith: i am now going suspicious of SS

[farside22]

Any other reads you have ao far cakez?

[farside22]

@cakez: its more a gut scum read. I don't have anything solid.

vote: something smart

Explaining vote later.

[farside22]

@Something: Who are you scum reading at this point and why? I get the impression you find knightmare scum.

[farside22]

Congrats to SS to being the first player this game I did meta on. I'm very confused by your game play here because it's not your typically play. I had to see if you changed since the last time we played.
Can I ask......what brought on your more vocal self to this game?

[farside22]

I don't understand what farside is doing here

In sorting through reads quickly and effectively.
Want to help?
VOTE: venca
Why are you actively lurking?

[farside22]

Because your attack was poor.

Consider it free coaching.

I lol'd

No I mean you attacked me for my S_S push and then are now pushing S_S

Your case on s_s didn't read as something factual. It was oppionated at best and it looked made up.
I pointed out i wanted more from him the defending himself. The attack on knightmare looked like he was making noise. It read pointless chatter, so i wanted to push futher on him.
Im not sold on him as town currently, but i want others to start communicating in this game

[farside22]

Icon and Vecna's playing sure would be nice.

Vote for venca. Lets start a wagon on a lurker.

[farside22]

didnt one of them say V/LA for the weekend?

Icon did.
Venca is posting elsewhere around ms

[farside22]

Venca is posting elsewhere around ms

So what?

I would like to have reads of people playing the game.
I would also like to know why he's avoiding posting here.

[farside22]

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all. I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

[farside22]

why u townreading cakez?

Its a light town read. His point on SS seemed a bit forced but i liked that he doesnt care if people fight with him. Id still keep an eye on him. See if he scum hunts more and whom he pushes.
My biggest negative is he didn't say anything about votato.

[farside22]

i don't like that iconeum finally shows up and doesn't contribute anything. I was gonna swap my vote but then chk gives that super weak abr vote, so it gets to stay

Wow this was horrible. A whole post of wishywashy nonsense

VOTE: votato

I am tempted to follow this.

[farside22]

I’m here for a bit. Someone engage with me and ask me about something

Who are your scum reads and why?

[farside22]

Do you scumread ABR lilith?

If not, then why is that post wishywashy?

He doesn’t actually take a stance on Iconeum; and he says he’ll keep his vote on chkflip but has not engaged with or tried to push that slot for a while. He’s also incorrect about chkflip’s vote being a “weak ABR vote” and he should know because he was previously in a very long-winded back and forth with chkflip accusing votato of being ABR’s partner, so he should know what chkflip’s reasons for voting ABR are.

VOTE: votato

Lilth can be town leader.

[farside22]

I’m here for a bit. Someone engage with me and ask me about something

Who are your scum reads and why?

My d1 reads tend to be as accurate as closing my eyes and hoping for a miracle. My only even semi-confident scum read atm is Knight, for the way he went about his setup spec.

Why is that scummy?

[farside22]

I'm quite suspicious of anyone pushing S_S here because I think he's probably pretty high on scum's target list here. I personally find him very annoying to play against as scum because his rational play and pointing out of logical fallacies tends to fuck over attempts to confuse the town or to just bullshit without getting called on it, both things that I like to do as scum. Added to that is he's strong mechanically and someone who's liable to be a major asset to town lategame. Therefore, being able to mislynch him and not burn a NK there is something I think scum would like rathe a lot.

It seems you disagree with SS about knightmare. Is there a reason you are rehashing something already discussed?

I don't really understand why people are TRing Lilith either tbh. Is it just because she's got the most posts or?

I'm leaving FB and Lilith for day 2. Not worth getting into today.

Feeling is mutual.

[farside22]

I don't really understand why people are TRing Lilith either tbh. Is it just because she's got the most posts or?

Right? Nah it's probably a mindmeld thing.

I actually wanna lynch this now.

VOTE: Chkflip

Why chkflip and not votato?

Votato is town, and a silly mislynch

Why does votato read town?

[farside22]

Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.

Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,

That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.

Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.

[farside22]

Iconuem's been poor so far. Most of his content is talking about whether day 1 scum lynches are good, and reinforcing the fact we shouldn't lynch day 1. Any hot pings so far, Iconeum?

VOTE: Iconeum

Lossing town points more and more.

Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.

Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,

That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.

Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.

Farside, can you explain your thought progression from “votato is a newb stop pushing him for a townslip he wouldn’t have known to make as a newb” to this post?

I never played with the guy and I thought he was newb in my head. Looking back and rereading I realized I missed that he played before and how he postured himself to know how to fake a town slip.

In short. I got tunneled onto other things.

[farside22]

I should point out for future reference....most times I have the attention span of a gnat. When I'm chasing other idea's and I ignore things in the game. Then someone else says something and I'm like a dog that goes "Squirel" and chase that down next.
It gets really bad some days.

[farside22]

Farside, please elaborate.

Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.

You ignored large parts of the game and focused on one player while saying nothing about anyone else or the wagon on Votato

[farside22]

This reads as pretty genuine.

+1

It's pretty NAI in my opinion.

[farside22]

Iconeum isn't necessarily

scummy

for it, I think you're misinterpreting my point. My concern lies with that being the majority of his content so far, as in he's commented on easy to comment on stuff like the mass claim thing and talking about the philosophy of whether a scum lynch in day 1 is a good idea.

Independently speaking, mentioning the mass claim is NAI. I'm voting him because I want to see more content/reads from him.

Do you have any other scum reads?

[farside22]

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?

Nope.
I don't know you as a player so I'm waiting to see what you do with what you got.
For example why is the interaction between me, lilith and Paragon look like there is scum in that group? Why did you call that group out among others that have been talking?

@farside, could you vote for nightmare please?

I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.

EBWOP:

Scum reads:

Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott

Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez

A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all.

I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

why u townreading cakez?

Its a light town read. His point on SS seemed a bit forced but i liked that he doesnt care if people fight with him. Id still keep an eye on him. See if he scum hunts more and whom he pushes.
My biggest negative is he didn't say anything about votato.

so far it seems like you have way to many scum reads (isnt that usually a scum tell) and also no town reads (isnt that also generally bad form?). Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on your reads?

I bolded the part you missed.
I don't talk about town reads. Anyone not listed is either town or light town. I don't put a preference in that category because I would rather not inform scum whom I find to be the most town and have them dead.
It's cute that you want to call something a scum tell but it isn't. For me it's NAI. I would do it as either alignment because as scum it leaves options, for town I'm still trying to wade through those I can't read and want more information to determine if they are scum or town.

[farside22]

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

What does this mean?

the three of them are having an interaction I'm reading as being partially forced. I don't think its just a disagreement between townies. I think one is probably scum. Too much infighting, not enough attempt to collaborate. Especially from farside, again strengthening my growing SR on her. the read on their interaction is gut, I can't really point to anything specific in the text yet.

Please explain to the class who it looks forced? I don't accept vague comments.

[farside22]

That reminds me I should really update my list:
Top is more on the null side bottom part are scum read.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum

votato
paragon
DonCorleone
eyestott

[farside22]

I'm not sure if I townlean ABR exactly but I guess he's at the point where I want to see what he does and not lynch him D1.

Does he have some kind of reputation here?

Yes. With ABR it's a mixed bag. I've seen him be a town leader to lurkering.

[farside22]

VOTE: Farside

u have my attention on this bad vote.

<3

Idc about his vote.
I wonder how long it will be before Votato responds to the questions ask or how long his scum buddies will try to get him off the chopping block.

[farside22]

Vecna is not vottato's scum buddy if that's what you're implying.

Sorry if that was implied. I don't see Venca doing that. I was thinking more of Paragon in this regards.

I think Venca is just testing out things.

[farside22]

Vecna is not vottato's scum buddy if that's what you're implying.

Sorry if that was implied. I don't see Venca doing that. I was thinking more of Paragon in this regards.

I think Venca is just testing out things.

Are you referring to the Iconeum vote? Because I was thinking that too.

Yes! The push on icon was pretty damn weak, especially since icon explained reasoning. It looks like a very lazy vote.

[farside22]

Perhaps votato can highlight what he means by forced/argumentative!

Faraide, I could see an argument where posts like this are kind of coaching, but that's not your argument?

He already said it's basically a pressure vote.

Idk how that's bad/scummy?

Are you talking about Paragon?

Iconuem's been poor so far. Most of his content is talking about whether day 1 scum lynches are good, and reinforcing the fact we shouldn't lynch day 1. Any hot pings so far, Iconeum?

VOTE: Iconeum

Let me know because there are a lot of guys in this game.

[farside22]

@farside, could you vote for nightmare please?

I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.

EBWOP:

Scum reads:

Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott

Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez

A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,

That reminds me I should really update my list:
Top is more on the null side bottom part are scum read.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum

votato
paragon
DonCorleone
eyestott

What caused the change in your reads here, farside?

I’m particularly interested in why I’ve shifted downwards, given that I don’t think my content has changed a lot.

Your discussion with ss and knight just seemed like filler. I dont see you rationalizing why scum would believe mass claiming is a thing. Nor why you would see scum continue the push. You kind of floated down from there with lack of revealing insight into your reasoning after.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

Do you scumread ABR lilith?

If not, then why is that post wishywashy?

He doesn’t actually take a stance on Iconeum; and he says he’ll keep his vote on chkflip but has not engaged with or tried to push that slot for a while. He’s also incorrect about chkflip’s vote being a “weak ABR vote” and he should know because he was previously in a very long-winded back and forth with chkflip accusing votato of being ABR’s partner, so he should know what chkflip’s reasons for voting ABR are.

VOTE: votato

Lilth can be town leader.

buddying lilith. not much on its own, but first instance of buddying/sheeping.

Spoiler:

Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.

Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,

That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.

Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.

I addressed some of this in 749. why is ico LHF? does being inactive make you low-hanging fruit? if so, wasnt it also scummy when you called for a wagon on inactives? how is it scummy to have certain people as town-leans? you apparently town-read paragon at the time, so why was it unacceptable for me to do the same? seems forced. Now that we've established that I'm new, can you coddle me again?

Spoiler:

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all. I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

again, paragon as a town-read. And I still dont like having such a long scum-list and not stating reasons for your reads. I see that if scum know who the locktowns are, they know who to target. But doesn't it help even more if town forces everyone, including scum, to publicly state their reads and reasoning so we can see inconsistencies and logical flaws? By hiding your reasoning for your reads you are helping scum fly under the radar. But i guess thats more a mechanics question than an accusation. I'm new here, so if people tell me thats the way to go I guess I'll listen.

Spoiler:

Iconuem's been poor so far. Most of his content is talking about whether day 1 scum lynches are good, and reinforcing the fact we shouldn't lynch day 1. Any hot pings so far, Iconeum?

VOTE: Iconeum

Lossing town points more and more.

Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.

Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,

That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.

Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.

Farside, can you explain your thought progression from “votato is a newb stop pushing him for a townslip he wouldn’t have known to make as a newb” to this post?

I never played with the guy and I thought he was newb in my head. Looking back and rereading I realized I missed that he played before and how he postured himself to know how to fake a town slip.

In short. I got tunneled onto other things.

losing points more and more for not being on the wagon you want? what, its scummy to disagree with you? Look at Ico's ISO. He really hasn't explained anything. It still seems like maybe his vote on me was a misread of someone else's post. In context, it seems like youre really reaching for things to latch onto to push this case. You're trying to look for reasons why im not new. But even not being new isn't scummy.

Spoiler:

Farside, please elaborate.

Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.

You ignored large parts of the game and focused on one player while saying nothing about anyone else or the wagon on Votato

You seem pretty focused on me, to the point where mostly what you're currently saying about stuff other than my wagon is that people should be commenting on my wagon. Really forcing the issue of getting people to latch onto my wagon. why?

Spoiler:

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?

Nope.
I don't know you as a player so I'm waiting to see what you do with what you got.
For example why is the interaction between me, lilith and Paragon look like there is scum in that group? Why did you call that group out among others that have been talking?

@farside, could you vote for nightmare please?

I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.

EBWOP:

Scum reads:

Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott

Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez

A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all.

I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

why u townreading cakez?

Its a light town read. His point on SS seemed a bit forced but i liked that he doesnt care if people fight with him. Id still keep an eye on him. See if he scum hunts more and whom he pushes.
My biggest negative is he didn't say anything about votato.

so far it seems like you have way to many scum reads (isnt that usually a scum tell) and also no town reads (isnt that also generally bad form?). Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on your reads?

I bolded the part you missed.
I don't talk about town reads. Anyone not listed is either town or light town. I don't put a preference in that category because I would rather not inform scum whom I find to be the most town and have them dead.
It's cute that you want to call something a scum tell but it isn't. For me it's NAI. I would do it as either alignment because as scum it leaves options, for town I'm still trying to wade through those I can't read and want more information to determine if they are scum or town.

I mentioned my thoughts about your reads. not stating your reasons allows you to fence-sit and be wishy-washy. Im not a psychologist, but its interesting that you mentioned your scum reasoning first, like it was at the forefront of your mind. Perhaps someone more versed in psychology can comment.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Farside

u have my attention on this bad vote.

<3

Idc about his vote.
I wonder how long it will be before Votato responds to the questions ask or how long his scum buddies will try to get him off the chopping block.

any chance i can have until the end of the day, or at least until close of business? again, this seems like really forcing the issue when I said I'd get back to it.

1) should i note that you ignored players buddying me or abr buddying lilth. Or can i point out that is just cherry picking a scum tell when you don't say anything about anyone buddying anyone in the game or calling them scummy for doing so.
2) lhf and lack of posting is not in the same category. I said i was trying to get players to post. That is not scummy.
3) scum shot the most town read. As for explaining my reads i do that when i scum read someone i feel strongly about and some is POE and some is gut.
4 and 5)i wanted to see what paragon sais about you because im scum reading both of you and was looking for a reaction.
6) thats strawman logic. You go with your scummy self.
7) sure.

[farside22]

VOTE: mariar

Paragon has asked for replacement.

MariaR replaces Paragon.

paradigm shift

hmmm should I townread votato for effort in 813 or not
I'm leaning more toward firebringer scum here. He seems like he's a little off this game.

His points look manufactured.
Effort=/=town?

[farside22]

dont see you rationalizing why scum would believe mass claiming is a thing. Nor why you would see scum continue the push.

Regarding the first sentence, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Regarding the second, why would scum drop the push for the mass claim if they’re already in a TSTBS approach? It makes much more sense to commit to that, than it does to just drop it and back off if you’ve already committed, especially given the significant pluses to scum should you get people to agree.

Why do you think icon is scum?

Well you said you were an alt. So let me ask.....have you ever seen scum say, "lets mass claim" and then hold that view with stats?
Plus the whole scum planing ahead is a non issue when they had no clue what town picked as options.
I didn't see the tstbs approach. Can you link that?

[farside22]

Also, why do you think eyestott is scum @farside

Farside and cakez can answer that too.

Those voting him should make the case.

[farside22]

Also, why do you think eyestott is scum @farside

Farside and cakez can answer that too.

Those voting him should make the case.

I mean you put him as your top scumread, why is this unreasonable to ask?

I want to see what Cakez says first if it's all the same.
Just be patient.

Sorry, I’m a bit confused what you’re asking for, farside. I have seen (and been) scum who felt that it was better to commit to something I’d said that was going down badly than to look like I didn’t sincerely believe that thing. Be that scumreading someone who was obvtown or insisting that behaviour that was of benefit to scum must be from a scum alignment. What does “hold that view with stats” mean?

Why would scum not plan ahead anyway? Day phase was delayed by about a day from when this thread went up and we know scum can discuss their choices in PT. One very likely explanation for the delay was scum speculating on what to take and trying to plan ahead, even given their lack of knowledge. Personally, I wonder if a rose may be slightly more likely even if suboptimal with scum assuming we’d see a gun-heavy game after the rose-heavy game last time.

By the TSTBS approach, I just mean that mass claiming is really obviously pro-scum in this setup and so pushing that initially and then continuing to push it is to push something obviously pro scum — then the WIFOM of “would scum actually push something so blatantly pro-scum” starts, and that’s what I mean by the TSTBS strat.

Well you answered my question basically. You see it as something scummy because it's something you have done. I mean if all knight does is do the breaking the game strategy and nothing more my read on him would change. Right now I thought he was deploying something that made sense to him, but in the long run it is a bad idea.
the TSTBS strat = (strategy) my phone has a tendency of auto correcting things and I don't do preview posting when I'm on my phone.

[farside22]

In terms of eye he isn't making any real pushes.
Here is more of an opinion about knight. He doesn't give examples on why he see's this or what jumped out that made him think this.

The way he’s stuck to his guns about a massclaim strikes me more as “scum who has dug themselves into a hole so they keep digging down hoping they find a cave that leads back to the surface” rather than “town staunchly stickler to their pro-scum ideals”.
Also, he goes off at me for suggesting that maybe the scum all picked guns for the same night, when he ‘PRIVATELY’ asked about the viability of THIS EXACT THING, long before I even suggested it.

They do also get a factional kill, but good point.

i don't think they can multitask and shoot 4 players in a night.

I asked the mod yesterday, they can.

This was said after icon posted

I'm not advocating for your lynch, I'm just trying to understand your point of view.
Mind you, I don't mean your immediate lynch, but in approximately two weeks time.

He weakly jabs at Icon and then backs off. He reads as very subpar and even though I checked his games that are ongoing he isn't this quiet from what i can tell. He reads here as more under the radar.

[farside22]

Holy shit weren't you a mod at some point?

Me???
If so yes.

[farside22]

I feel like you should know what I'm going to say here.

Nope.

Kightmare: are you caught up in the game? If so where do you stand with overall reads?

Top two scum reads: maria (aka paragon) and votato.

[farside22]

I dont particularly like either the Eyestott or the Potato wagon.

He's a unicorn ffs. You can trust him!

You want to explain the town read on the unicorn a bit better.

[farside22]

Nope.

I mean, this is the third time I've had to say it but here goes. Saying someone is posting somewhere else but not here is in poor taste, it's against the spirit of the game, and it isn't a scum tell. The way you're doing it is tangential at best and worthless at worst.

This is also the second time I've had to say that talking about ongoing games is against site rules. Not saying mini x or micro y doesn't matter. You're talking about ongoing games regardless. And, again, it's tangential. It's not evidence for anything.

Please stop doing it.

Just because I happen to post in my mish mashes and not here doesn't mean I'm scum. It means I'm posting there and not here and that's it.

Okay so I can see from your history that lurking is not a tell. I would hard disagree with you, but it isn't against "the spirit of mafia". Many players, including myself, look at it as a scum tell. It depends on the player, the situation of the game, ect.
Second I will concede that mention an ongoing game as a reference is in poor taste. If the kids game ends before this one does (and I'm not dead) I will use it as quickly as possible.

[farside22]

Damn near half the game is sitting at around a day from their last post. Are the lurking? Is that information particularly telling or useful at this point in the game? I don't really think so.

I don't see a way to move this forward without other players comments.
Maria, Knight.....hell I would take views for Fire or ABR just to get some content in here that helps solve the game.

[farside22]

Absolutely. All I'm saying is "this person is lurking here!" is kind of a moot point when almost half the base are doing it and, while all scum might be in that list (it's possible), they can't all be scum. So it's not very reliable in and of itself.

Pedit: Jesus Albert.

Do I need to point out the difference between a game start vs a point were those that have been active are now waiting for said lurker/people to catch up?

There's only so much navel gazing I can tolerate. Just vote for the largest wagon and be done with day 1.

*sigh*

[farside22]

No one else is voting farside, Vecna is now voting Cakes

Biggest wagons are votato or eye.

It must be nice to just vote someone and ignore responding to that person.
Can i do that too please?

[farside22]

I will tldr my reason my vote on votato hasn't changed is the a few reason he called me scummy multiple player have done the same thing. 1) making a scum list with players listed as a scum read.
2) hiding the reason for my reads, again many have done this and he isnt calling them out to explain.
3) using strawman arguments to make a case.
In short his whole scum read is based on nothing more then omgus and things he hasnt called anyone out on doing the same fucking thing.

[farside22]

Anyone feel like giving this game some life with me?

[farside22]

I don't know cpr

I like who your voting. So I wouldn't say you don't know anything.
I was hopping abr or lil would be here to have some fun to liven this thing up.
Hell knight or SS would be great too.

[farside22]

I like the players that are on the same wagon as mean.
Come on ABR, Look at that wagon and tell me who is scum there.

[farside22]

What didn't you like about Paragon?

not really thrilled with the MariaR catchup. Combined with the previous slot, id probably be down to vote there.

That is were I'm voting.

VOTE: Maria

I don't know about Votato's reply. I go back and forth on how to take it or if he is just butt hurt at being called out but it's hard to believe the kid finds the things scummy that he called me out for.

[farside22]

Updated townlean cloud: {ABR, lilith, farside, votato, Paragon, Vecna, chkflip, SirCakez, Firebringer}.

Agree on: ABR/Chk/Cakez
Talk to me on: Lilth Farside Votato

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum

votato
paragon
DonCorleone
eyestott

Talk to me on Ico/ABR/Don

God can someone be here so I don't feel the need to do these awkward catchups. Thanks

ABR isn't a follower. His playstyle this game is just drifting along. Can you explain how you get that as town ABR since he does that as both alignments?
Icon has just one line post that give me nothing for info. Gut says town, lack of content reads null so I stay with that for now.
Don.......something about the way he approaches me just rubbed me the wrong way. I get this trying to appease sense when I read his post.

[farside22]

I can't be the only one who has the opinion that Eye/Votato are town right now and that these wagons suck right?

You are more then welcome to help your scum partner out of being lynched. Just let me know which one that is.

[farside22]

Lilith I feel is forcing her emotions. When I look at her iso I see so many tone shifts. That in and of itself isn't scummy. But when it looks like a pattern that's when it becomes a problem.

Whenever she was pushing a scumread it got aggro and whenever it was not it went to friendly/causal.

Combine that with the biggest iso in the game and I don't really see strong reasons to townread her. (I could look into her votes but I was being lazy) I think she's a fine vote because she's building up her own advantage. I could quote posts but I don't think this is really shocking info.

Farside, on the other hand, is a really popular townread and I find that super interesting! I can't really get to point A to point B with her. Like I think she has her expectations super high with certain things and not with others. The Cakez read that I brought up for example before. Also check her 2 reads lists in 411 and /781 I didn't see it at first, but really I think she's just trying to shift her gameplay to fit the currant situation. Whatever that may be. I don't see towny solving or good follow up to her scumhunting.

The bold is not a scum tell.

[farside22]

I have candy for those how vote Maria for me.

[farside22]

Farside is my strongest townread, I feel like she’s been super in sync with my thoughts all game and we’re vibing well (hope that isn’t one-sided lmao)

Nah. I don't like people buttering me up typically but Maria's post and comments just reinforced my town read.

[farside22]

VOTE: Farside

u have my attention on this bad vote.

<3

Idc about his vote.
I wonder how long it will be before Votato responds to the questions ask or how long his scum buddies will try to get him off the chopping block.

Vecna is not vottato's scum buddy if that's what you're implying.

Sorry if that was implied. I don't see Venca doing that. I was thinking more of Paragon in this regards.

I think Venca is just testing out things.

Vecna is not vottato's scum buddy if that's what you're implying.

Sorry if that was implied. I don't see Venca doing that. I was thinking more of Paragon in this regards.

I think Venca is just testing out things.

Are you referring to the Iconeum vote? Because I was thinking that too.

Yes! The push on icon was pretty damn weak, especially since icon explained reasoning. It looks like a very lazy vote.

[farside22]

ABR isn't a follower. His playstyle this game is just drifting along. Can you explain how you get that as town ABR since he does that as both alignments?

I haven't played with scum ABR to my knowledge. Do you see him taking advantage of any situation or doing anything scummy? Sure if you think he's drifting that's all fine and dandy but if that's how it's working we'll see that with votes.

I'm sorry did I miss the part where you explained why you were town reading ABR?

*looks around*
Nope.
It gets better then that.
ABR is giving his vote over to lilth whom you are scum reading. That is just priceless shit that I can't make up because it's in the game.

The bold is not a scum tell.

It is if you take it into context with the rest of the way someone is choosing to act.

Perhaps you can oh I don't know, try to work with me? We both scumread each other so we'll only be getting more info out of each other right?
Super convenient that you only started pushing my slot when I replaced in. Who also did that...oh Vecna that's convenient too!

That's so cute. Did you miss the post where I was scum reading Paragon before you replaced in?
No......

Well I posted them just for you prior to this.
Why don't you explain to the class how her context leads you to that conclusion.

I can't be the only one who has the opinion that Eye/Votato are town right now and that these wagons suck right?

I’m fairly sure the only person (outside of the wagonees themselves) who doesn’t want to be on either wagon is Vecna, who you are interested in voting. How do you figure that you are aligned with Vecna’s views on the wagon but still want to vote (scumreading? Scumleaning? Unclear which) him?

The piece that just reads like a perfect end is that you are reading venca as scum with me, when he was voting for me.

VoteCount 1.6

eyestott [4] -

Knightmare491

,

SirCakez

,

Firebringer

,

Albert B. Rampage

Knightmare491

[2] -

eyestott

,

DonCorleone

votato [4] -

lilith2013

,

farside22

,

Iconeum

,

chkflip

Iconeum

[1] -

votato

farside22

[1] -

Vecna

Firebringer

[1] -

MariaR

Not Voting [1]

- Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

Nah, not even close. ooooh pretty colors. Unicorn inspired no doubt

[farside22]

I dislike how farside is treating/talking to my slot like it's already scum instead of trying to ya know. Just talk normally but that can just be a dif in playstyle and annoyance more than anything else.
pedit: It makes me want to wagon Vecna even more!

I'm sorry you rolled scum. If you were town I would be really nice and try to see your pov but so far everything you posted look made up and vague.
Thank you for replacing. Much love to you for doing that.

[farside22]

What does Chk have to do with any of this?
pedit: Having matching reads or views isn't and never will be a towntell in my book. You can have whatever reads or views you want on paper. The reasoning behind your actions and stages is what matters to me. Since Vecna is claiming to have the same views as me seeing him flip? That's a ton of info for me.

People's action!! and stages.
See the first part I get. Reads, views, interacting, trying to see if it's a scum or town pov. Prodding acting to prodding.
But rational and MS are not a thing I put together in a sentence. Not with players like NM, Fire,............I need another name of a crazy hat player but you get the idea.

[farside22]

If Maria actually responds to my questions instead of flailing around let me know.
I'll be back.
EBWOP:
How is ABR being gun ho and in your face? Please produce post that gives those impressions.

[farside22]

Please let me know what question if yours I'm not directly answering so you can stop using buzzwords. That'd be lovely

Hi pot this is kettle.
How are you?
I'm good.
So you used buzzwords like gun ho to describe ABR without showing why you thought that. And buzzwords like this little gem of vaugness

It is if you take it into context with the rest of the way someone is choosing to act.

which was in regards to lillth's plays this way.
The catch up is a mish mosh of cherry picking comments and then realizing, whoops I have nothing so I'm going to through names out and go tada, look i have scum reads.

That was maria's catch up post in a nutshell.

[farside22]

I dislike how farside is treating/talking to my slot like it's already scum instead of trying to ya know. Just talk normally but that can just be a dif in playstyle and annoyance more than anything else.
pedit: It makes me want to wagon Vecna even more!

I'm sorry you rolled scum. If you were town I would be really nice and try to see your pov but so far everything you posted look made up and vague.
Thank you for replacing. Much love to you for doing that.

You think everything I've posted is made up or vague or just my catchup?

Please let me know what question if yours I'm not directly answering so you can stop using buzzwords. That'd be lovely

Hi pot this is kettle.
How are you?
I'm good.
So you used buzzwords like gun ho to describe ABR without showing why you thought that. And buzzwords like this little gem of vaugness

It is if you take it into context with the rest of the way someone is choosing to act.

which was in regards to lillth's plays this way.
The catch up is a mish mosh of cherry picking comments and then realizing, whoops I have nothing so I'm going to through names out and go tada, look i have scum reads.

That was maria's catch up post in a nutshell.

With ABR I didn't really think I needed to show it because it felt well...obvious in his whole ISO? But fair enough. Never said I wasn't a hypocrite~

My catch up was trash I can admit that did you see how much of that I was struggling with? Catching up at 3am that isn't a tryhard game for me was probably not the smartest of ideas but hey, live with what you learn. My catch up was mostly me wanting to show my scumreads than people I tr. I'm much better at talking live and explaining my thoughts so that's why I'm excited.

See calling a play gun ho that has done nothing to lead the town or take a stance is crap.
You can't expect me to believe that you read the game or see someone who is trying to figure the game out even reading abr's iso alone.
So yes I'm going to call crap as I see it. Next is lillth. You gave vague gut, her emotions and how she flips flop back and forth. But wow guess what I do that. Go check out the doubles game I just played where I went back and forth on reads and how I was feeling and up's and downs.
That's called being invested in a game girl.

[farside22]

it seems like farside made some initial reads, and is now going full confirmation bias. farside, do you think you could go through some of maria's posts and try to explain them yourself from the lens of town!maria? could you do the same for me? I'm not sure I like all of Maria's posts that much either, but you seem to be giving her the same treatment you're giving me, which is: "you're scum. I've decided you're scum, and therefore you are. And since you're scum im going to read your posts as coming only from scum, and treat you like you're a bad person." You seem to be getting really ticked off, and maybe you've just tunneled really hard, but it seems more likely that you're putting on an angry facade for some AtE action. How dare we be scum?

I dislike how farside is treating/talking to my slot like it's already scum instead of trying to ya know. Just talk normally but that can just be a dif in playstyle and annoyance more than anything else.
pedit: It makes me want to wagon Vecna even more!

I'm sorry you rolled scum. If you were town I would be really nice and try to see your pov but so far everything you posted look made up and vague.
Thank you for replacing. Much love to you for doing that.

it seems like you're really trying hard here to be open minded and reasoned, and not at all tunneling.

I tunnel till someone tells me that my read makes no sense or this player does X typically.
Or if I'm not sure about my reads on a player.

we'll see that with votes.


I'm sorry did I miss the part where you explained why you were town reading ABR?

*looks around*
Nope.
It gets better then that.
ABR is giving his vote over to lilth whom you are scum reading. That is just priceless shit that I can't make up because it's in the game.

Do you really think MariaR should expect 1 scum to give their scumbuddy a vote?

That's what you're calling her out for?

Also I am not giving my vote to Lilith I thought I made that clear.

VOTE: farside22

For thinking its inconsistent to think I am town if lillith is scum. This doesn't make any sense.

1) you said the following

I'm not going to give you a double vote, I'm just going to copy your reads.

If my scumreads happen to align with ABR’s, great. I don’t really think there’s a middle ground between having your own reads and being pressured to sheep his, though.

Our reads will be forcibly aligned all of Day 1. I hope you're prepared for that!

I didn't call lilith scum ever so what drove you to that conclusion?

[farside22]

You're saying MariaR is lazyscummy because she thinks Lillith is scum and I am town, and the evidence you presented was that I publicly told Lillith our reads would be aligned which you thought was me giving Lillith my vote.

I'm questing her calling you gun ho for your iso, when the majority of your game play is following lillith's lead. That was why I thought her catch up was a joke and a lie.

[farside22]

See calling a play gun ho that has done nothing to lead the town or take a stance is crap.
You can't expect me to believe that you read the game or see someone who is trying to figure the game out even reading abr's iso alone.
So yes I'm going to call crap as I see it. Next is lillth. You gave vague gut, her emotions and how she flips flop back and forth. But wow guess what I do that. Go check out the doubles game I just played where I went back and forth on reads and how I was feeling and up's and downs.
That's called being invested in a game girl.

1) He's being aggro. Is that not what the term means? In your face gung-ho etc etc
2) You're right he's not trying to do anything you just listed and I never said he was. That doesn't have to be the base of a townread and that's not what mine is based on at all. If that was the only way to townread someone you would be scumreading half of MS alone.
3) People have changes in emotion that's human. Everyone does it's perfectly normally. In a game like mafiascum you have highs and lows. But when you see a pattern like I do in her like I've said and how her random change is odd. That's when I take issue. I've been invested in games before hell we've played before. It's not that hard in my eyes to see the issue here.

!) He called a player obvscum. That was the most aggressive post. How can you say he is being aggressive. I asked you for specifics and you keep dodging the question.
2) What is your town read based on then?
3P You still haven't given examples of how lilith has done anything you are suggesting. Its just words on an MS board.

[farside22]

You're saying MariaR is lazyscummy because she thinks Lillith is scum and I am town, and the evidence you presented was that I publicly told Lillith our reads would be aligned which you thought was me giving Lillith my vote.

I'm questing her calling you gun ho for your iso, when the majority of your game play is following lillith's lead. That was why I thought her catch up was a joke and a lie.

Lillith is clearly following my lead, at least until now. She presently seems to be riding the farside/vecna train.

And for the last time woman GUNG HO, stop disrespecting my Texan waifu gun ho.

You are making 0 sense right about now.

Okay, is this better: you're calling me fake for playing emotionally

I'm saying part of your emotions are exaggerated/planned

Okay, how can you tell? It seems like you're just reading my posts and ascribing exaggeration/planning to them

That is exactly what she did! That is why I keep asking her to show where she got that from and how she interpreted it that way.
The times I asked for an example she had something else to say or not give up the post that gave the impression.

[farside22]

no, I was scumreading SS from the very beginning

ABR is saying he thinks your scum for no reason now.

[farside22]

See calling a play gun ho that has done nothing to lead the town or take a stance is crap.
You can't expect me to believe that you read the game or see someone who is trying to figure the game out even reading abr's iso alone.
So yes I'm going to call crap as I see it. Next is lillth. You gave vague gut, her emotions and how she flips flop back and forth. But wow guess what I do that. Go check out the doubles game I just played where I went back and forth on reads and how I was feeling and up's and downs.
That's called being invested in a game girl.

1) He's being aggro. Is that not what the term means? In your face gung-ho etc etc
2) You're right he's not trying to do anything you just listed and I never said he was. That doesn't have to be the base of a townread and that's not what mine is based on at all. If that was the only way to townread someone you would be scumreading half of MS alone.
3) People have changes in emotion that's human. Everyone does it's perfectly normally. In a game like mafiascum you have highs and lows. But when you see a pattern like I do in her like I've said and how her random change is odd. That's when I take issue. I've been invested in games before hell we've played before. It's not that hard in my eyes to see the issue here.

!) He called a player obvscum. That was the most aggressive post. How can you say he is being aggressive. I asked you for specifics and you keep dodging the question.
2) What is your town read based on then?
3 You still haven't given examples of how lilith has done anything you are suggesting. Its just words on an MS board.

1) I seriously don't know how to answer this without saying look at his iso it's all there. Like, all of it. Do you think he's thinking out his posts and planning on how to give scum a better advantage? Do you see him manipulating people or posts? No it's just, I look at his posts and think 'that man is posting without a second thought.' Town act before they think. Scum think before they act.
2) See above
3) I did in my catch up. See the S_S/Lilth interactions and how aggressive she is and then a sudden stop early game and then it slowly goes back to aggro. Then, it's casual with people she townreads aggro etc etc.
Do you not see what I'm talking about in her iso? I can go grab quotes for you if you want but I want you to go look yourself first.

Yup, No evidence found here in regards to ABR as I asked repeatedly and no following someone else's logic and vote in no MS world is a town tell.
The catch up about S/S and lilth you wrote off, but casual with town and agro with non town is not a scum tell.
If it is then show where you saw scum doing something like that before and then tell me town players that don't do the same thing.

[farside22]

Okay, is this better: you're calling me fake for playing emotionally

I'm saying part of your emotions are exaggerated/planned

Okay, how can you tell? It seems like you're just reading my posts and ascribing exaggeration/planning to them

No one can truly tell how the emotions of someone else work. I'm saying I think some of your stuff is fake and I noticed a pattern and a few glaring points. I showed those glaring points and the pattern. I don't think there's much more I can really say on it?

Just an FYI, she only posted one quote with lilth that she had an issue with.

(Insert obligatory skip the first five pages here because it’s always filler)

Page 5 is just S_S vs lilith. S_S comes off worse here due to the kinda defensive tone in posts like 116. I kinda want to tr lilith with how guns blazing she just seems to start the game with.

Don't talk about ongoing games votato.

Those slips are faker than pro wrestling wtf.

More votes on this will get you into my goodwill.
Also lilith, less tunneling. Ss is at least responding and trying to engage.
Unlike chk who is poking with unless garbage.

This made me look back and I don’t really like this. Especially if S_S does indeed flip scum. Independently they attack chk for...NAI filler from the looks of it. Saying ‘At least S_S is doing this’ is kinda bland in my eyes when that’s the bare minimum.

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

I’ve legit never been hit with more tone whiplash in my life. It’s not even like this was a day it was an hour. That’s...idk how to feel about that. It goes from ‘I GOT YOU SCUM’ to ‘Oh you’re right my bad’ I think it’s worth noting this was right after a VC with Voto at 5 and S_S at 3 but uh, opinions would be nice.

People sussing ABR/shading him on page 8/9 is kinda lol to me. To be fair one of those slots is me but hey who cares.

I want to declare a TR on Lilith but I'm also aware I'm biased and want to TR Lilith

Town.

There was no A at all in the post that were reference.
Nothing since then is really showing why you continue you read on the spot. You just want to egg on something that is not there and ride it out.
No where do I see anything other then antagonizing a player to react while not scum hunting.

Ooo let me throw my hat into the ring.

To me, S_S feels defensively aggressive and that in and of itself is kinda towny! Mostly because I think scum S_S is kinda a doormat half the time. But, it kinda mellows out later on. For Cakez here I suppose I don’t really fully get it? Were you saying that Cakez had one reason to sr S_S and now that he’s not doing that anymore he shouldn’t be sr? Because that is horrible logic, but if not let me know.

[farside22]

it seems like farside made some initial reads, and is now going full confirmation bias. farside, do you think you could go through some of maria's posts and try to explain them yourself from the lens of town!maria? could you do the same for me? I'm not sure I like all of Maria's posts that much either, but you seem to be giving her the same treatment you're giving me, which is: "you're scum. I've decided you're scum, and therefore you are. And since you're scum im going to read your posts as coming only from scum, and treat you like you're a bad person." You seem to be getting really ticked off, and maybe you've just tunneled really hard, but it seems more likely that you're putting on an angry facade for some AtE action. How dare we be scum?

I dislike how farside is treating/talking to my slot like it's already scum instead of trying to ya know. Just talk normally but that can just be a dif in playstyle and annoyance more than anything else.
pedit: It makes me want to wagon Vecna even more!

I'm sorry you rolled scum. If you were town I would be really nice and try to see your pov but so far everything you posted look made up and vague.
Thank you for replacing. Much love to you for doing that.

it seems like you're really trying hard here to be open minded and reasoned, and not at all tunneling.

I tunnel till someone tells me that my read makes no sense or this player does X typically.
Or if I'm not sure about my reads on a player.

but it doesnt explain why you started tunneling. also earlier, you said you were pretty clear that you weren't tunneling me, so what changed?

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?

Nope.
I don't know you as a player so I'm waiting to see what you do with what you got.
For example why is the interaction between me, lilith and Paragon look like there is scum in that group? Why did you call that group out among others that have been talking?

Your last post here it made me think and step back.
You still believe despite the number of inconsistencies I pointed out that you think I'm scum. No one stepped up to take your side. No one said hey this kid is trying and although it's bad, blah, blah, blah.
You looked like a lone solider battling a dragon you had no right to try to go against in any realm.

[farside22]

Well that and I figured, you know i could take care of a problem later.

[farside22]

Your last post here it made me think and step back.
You still believe despite the number of inconsistencies I pointed out that you think I'm scum. No one stepped up to take your side. No one said hey this kid is trying and although it's bad, blah, blah, blah.
You looked like a lone solider battling a dragon you had no right to try to go against in any realm.

so you stepped back, decided you were tunneling, and your reaction was to tunnel even harder? that seems backwards. Like i said in this post, I don't feel like you addressed my points, but I dropped it since no one else seemed to scumread you. Now people do, but perhaps for different reasons. Me stating a bad case for my read does not mean the underlying gut read was wrong. Yes you're better at this than me. Bravo. Maybe I'll learn. But its not a good look for you to talk like that. Kinda rude, but whatever. Rudeness isnt necessarily AI.

Well that and I figured, you know i could take care of a problem later.

are you softclaiming gun? why would i know that?

I did respond to you post. How did i not respond to it?
Like i replied directly to the post in a post i made.

[farside22]

Spoiler: S_S vs Lil

Lilith, I have a bad feeling that you don't know me as well as you think you do.

nope

lynch this please

Why does no-one have any interest in whether or not votato is town faking lack of knowledge of scum having a pt or scum faking it?

What am I, chopped liver?

Yes

The downside of a gut read is that it's impossible to engage.

I’ll get back to you once my read is further substantiated on something you can defend then.

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

As you can see it starts off really aggressive and then a sudden stop randomly. 'Huh I'm tunneling' See that'd be cool if that thought was genuine but Farsade made that post about 30 posts before that and lilith was still posting after

Don't talk about ongoing games votato.

Those slips are faker than pro wrestling wtf.

More votes on this will get you into my goodwill.
Also lilith, less tunneling. Ss is at least responding and trying to engage.
Unlike chk who is poking with unless garbage.

See? So did that thought randomly hit her brain or something? She was posting in live time so you can see how fake that thought process and how timed it is. The aggro on S_S is for the sake of getting a townread exaggerated. Voting Chk who was suddenly getting a wagon going. It's called opportunistic vote hopping.

Spoiler: Examples of 'anger'

Tbh I don’t trust ABR reads whatsoever so that basically means votato is conftown for me

This was originally sarcastic but whatever I plan to ignore all ABR reads

Hard and immediate backtrack noted.

Revising an opinion when you get new information, like, oh, actual confirmation from ABR that it was a legitimate vote, is called backtracking now?

Yeah you’ve taken everything that’s happened in this thread incredibly seriously

One post happened to actually be serious

So?

Sure she's calling some of her posts 'not serious' when it gets talked about but uh, excuses anyone?

Spoiler: not pressued

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

Lilith, why did Faraide convince you that you were tunneling rather than correct about an early gut scumread?

I actually already dropped my SS push in 116 on the basis that all I had at that time was a read I couldn't explain to anyone, which evidently is not a very convincing case for building a wagon. 163 is the next time I'm in the thread and I explicitly moved on to interacting with a different wagon there. I'm not saying my scumread is wrong because I still have that read, but with farside calling me out I realized that pushing my read without evidence was not going to be productive so I decided to move somewhere else and revisit my SS read later.

whoa, it's not Faraide's fault he got dragged into this!

oh. Sorry Faraide

When people aren't disagreeing or pressing her she's back to go lucky and casual. With farside her 'top townread' she's extremely nod nod happy all the time. I just don't think this is how someone would act in a game of mafia

I can keep going but you get my point. You can be all happy with your townreads. You can be all 'grr' with your scumreads. But when you overdo your emotions to try and get an advantage on the gamestate? That's where we got an issue.

Anyone want points for telling me what is wrong with this post?

[farside22]

Yup, No evidence found here in regards to ABR as I asked repeatedly and no following someone else's logic and vote in no MS world is a town tell.

The evidence is right there just because you don't like the answer you got doesn't mean it's
A) Not a town tell
B) Dodging/not evidence.

You should really learn that.

Wait that came off really bitchy on another re read. Sorry

Thats okay. Ill just leave it as you have no real reason to call abr agressive.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

Do you scumread ABR lilith?

If not, then why is that post wishywashy?

He doesn’t actually take a stance on Iconeum; and he says he’ll keep his vote on chkflip but has not engaged with or tried to push that slot for a while. He’s also incorrect about chkflip’s vote being a “weak ABR vote” and he should know because he was previously in a very long-winded back and forth with chkflip accusing votato of being ABR’s partner, so he should know what chkflip’s reasons for voting ABR are.

VOTE: votato

Lilth can be town leader.

buddying lilith. not much on its own, but first instance of buddying/sheeping.

Spoiler:

Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.

Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,

That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.

Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.

I addressed some of this in 749. why is ico LHF? does being inactive make you low-hanging fruit? if so, wasnt it also scummy when you called for a wagon on inactives? how is it scummy to have certain people as town-leans? you apparently town-read paragon at the time, so why was it unacceptable for me to do the same? seems forced. Now that we've established that I'm new, can you coddle me again?

Spoiler:

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all. I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

again, paragon as a town-read. And I still dont like having such a long scum-list and not stating reasons for your reads. I see that if scum know who the locktowns are, they know who to target. But doesn't it help even more if town forces everyone, including scum, to publicly state their reads and reasoning so we can see inconsistencies and logical flaws? By hiding your reasoning for your reads you are helping scum fly under the radar. But i guess thats more a mechanics question than an accusation. I'm new here, so if people tell me thats the way to go I guess I'll listen.

Spoiler:

Iconuem's been poor so far. Most of his content is talking about whether day 1 scum lynches are good, and reinforcing the fact we shouldn't lynch day 1. Any hot pings so far, Iconeum?

VOTE: Iconeum

Lossing town points more and more.

Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.

Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,

That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.

Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.

Farside, can you explain your thought progression from “votato is a newb stop pushing him for a townslip he wouldn’t have known to make as a newb” to this post?

I never played with the guy and I thought he was newb in my head. Looking back and rereading I realized I missed that he played before and how he postured himself to know how to fake a town slip.

In short. I got tunneled onto other things.

losing points more and more for not being on the wagon you want? what, its scummy to disagree with you? Look at Ico's ISO. He really hasn't explained anything. It still seems like maybe his vote on me was a misread of someone else's post. In context, it seems like youre really reaching for things to latch onto to push this case. You're trying to look for reasons why im not new. But even not being new isn't scummy.

Spoiler:

Farside, please elaborate.

Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.

You ignored large parts of the game and focused on one player while saying nothing about anyone else or the wagon on Votato

You seem pretty focused on me, to the point where mostly what you're currently saying about stuff other than my wagon is that people should be commenting on my wagon. Really forcing the issue of getting people to latch onto my wagon. why?

Spoiler:

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?

Nope.
I don't know you as a player so I'm waiting to see what you do with what you got.
For example why is the interaction between me, lilith and Paragon look like there is scum in that group? Why did you call that group out among others that have been talking?

@farside, could you vote for nightmare please?

I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.

EBWOP:

Scum reads:

Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott

Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez

A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all.

I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

why u townreading cakez?

Its a light town read. His point on SS seemed a bit forced but i liked that he doesnt care if people fight with him. Id still keep an eye on him. See if he scum hunts more and whom he pushes.
My biggest negative is he didn't say anything about votato.

so far it seems like you have way to many scum reads (isnt that usually a scum tell) and also no town reads (isnt that also generally bad form?). Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on your reads?

I bolded the part you missed.
I don't talk about town reads. Anyone not listed is either town or light town. I don't put a preference in that category because I would rather not inform scum whom I find to be the most town and have them dead.
It's cute that you want to call something a scum tell but it isn't. For me it's NAI. I would do it as either alignment because as scum it leaves options, for town I'm still trying to wade through those I can't read and want more information to determine if they are scum or town.

I mentioned my thoughts about your reads. not stating your reasons allows you to fence-sit and be wishy-washy. Im not a psychologist, but its interesting that you mentioned your scum reasoning first, like it was at the forefront of your mind. Perhaps someone more versed in psychology can comment.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Farside

u have my attention on this bad vote.

<3

Idc about his vote.
I wonder how long it will be before Votato responds to the questions ask or how long his scum buddies will try to get him off the chopping block.

any chance i can have until the end of the day, or at least until close of business? again, this seems like really forcing the issue when I said I'd get back to it.

1) should i note that you ignored players buddying me or abr buddying lilth. Or can i point out that is just cherry picking a scum tell when you don't say anything about anyone buddying anyone in the game or calling them scummy for doing so.
2) lhf and lack of posting is not in the same category. I said i was trying to get players to post. That is not scummy.
3) scum shot the most town read. As for explaining my reads i do that when i scum read someone i feel strongly about and some is POE and some is gut.
4 and 5)i wanted to see what paragon sais about you because im scum reading both of you and was looking for a reaction.
6) thats strawman logic. You go with your scummy self.
7) sure.

If you want to tell me what i missed here instead of having me guess that would be lovely

[farside22]

Spoiler: S_S vs Lil

Lilith, I have a bad feeling that you don't know me as well as you think you do.

nope

lynch this please

Why does no-one have any interest in whether or not votato is town faking lack of knowledge of scum having a pt or scum faking it?

What am I, chopped liver?

Yes

The downside of a gut read is that it's impossible to engage.

I’ll get back to you once my read is further substantiated on something you can defend then.

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

As you can see it starts off really aggressive and then a sudden stop randomly. 'Huh I'm tunneling' See that'd be cool if that thought was genuine but Farsade made that post about 30 posts before that and lilith was still posting after

Don't talk about ongoing games votato.

Those slips are faker than pro wrestling wtf.

More votes on this will get you into my goodwill.
Also lilith, less tunneling. Ss is at least responding and trying to engage.
Unlike chk who is poking with unless garbage.

See? So did that thought randomly hit her brain or something? She was posting in live time so you can see how fake that thought process and how timed it is. The aggro on S_S is for the sake of getting a townread exaggerated. Voting Chk who was suddenly getting a wagon going. It's called opportunistic vote hopping.

Spoiler: Examples of 'anger'

Tbh I don’t trust ABR reads whatsoever so that basically means votato is conftown for me

This was originally sarcastic but whatever I plan to ignore all ABR reads

Hard and immediate backtrack noted.

Revising an opinion when you get new information, like, oh, actual confirmation from ABR that it was a legitimate vote, is called backtracking now?

Yeah you’ve taken everything that’s happened in this thread incredibly seriously

One post happened to actually be serious

So?

Sure she's calling some of her posts 'not serious' when it gets talked about but uh, excuses anyone?

Spoiler: not pressued

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

Lilith, why did Faraide convince you that you were tunneling rather than correct about an early gut scumread?

I actually already dropped my SS push in 116 on the basis that all I had at that time was a read I couldn't explain to anyone, which evidently is not a very convincing case for building a wagon. 163 is the next time I'm in the thread and I explicitly moved on to interacting with a different wagon there. I'm not saying my scumread is wrong because I still have that read, but with farside calling me out I realized that pushing my read without evidence was not going to be productive so I decided to move somewhere else and revisit my SS read later.

whoa, it's not Faraide's fault he got dragged into this!

oh. Sorry Faraide

When people aren't disagreeing or pressing her she's back to go lucky and casual. With farside her 'top townread' she's extremely nod nod happy all the time. I just don't think this is how someone would act in a game of mafia

I can keep going but you get my point. You can be all happy with your townreads. You can be all 'grr' with your scumreads. But when you overdo your emotions to try and get an advantage on the gamestate? That's where we got an issue.

Anyone want points for telling me what is wrong with this post?

not enough unicorns?

Do you see mariah's pov in the post?

[farside22]

My eyes glossed over the last couple pages.

brb gonna go gung ho on my gun ho so I can Hulk Hogan this game.

This brings back memories.
I saw votato said about taking a step back and he's right.
A lot of what that is said gets lost in an argument that many dont end up reading.

So this is me stepping back.

[farside22]

Not with players like NM, Fire,............I need another name of a crazy hat player but you get the idea.

Yes, yes i am.

U just wish u had a cool looking hat like mine

MariaR u def feel like ur scum.
I should probably townread u for that tho.

Idk it’s hard to ignore

Vote her!!

[farside22]

Cakez moves up on the scum radar.
Weeeeeeee

[farside22]

I haven't played with MariaR in several years
Is this her typical meta?
farside SRing me for that is ridiculous

Im sr for a very vague post given the situation.
Why does mariah reading frustrated equal town or scum. She could be either alignment given the situation.
Second did you agree with how she presented lilith emotions. If so why?
Did her catchup explain well her scum reads?
You basically took 1 aspect of the discussion and ignored everything inbetween
That is why im suspicious of you.

[farside22]

Sigh.
I swear im going to just lurk the rest of this game day

[farside22]

some have it more than others
some never have it

this sounds deep.

anyways, u should be voting eyestott buddy

Did she lose her smile?

yes

Meh
VOTE: eyestott

[farside22]

THE DOUBLE SCUM TAG TEAM OH BABY I LOVE THIS. Live interaction is my stick lets go, sweeties,

VOTE: Maria

triple team Tbag?

Sweet!!

VOTE: maria

the not so super secret scum reads

Spoiler:

mariah, abr, venca

Just wanted that in here to see how many I have right by end of the game. Feeling good with my list there.

[farside22]

Catching up, but farside I don’t understand your progression on me — I thought I was a SR for you, what did I do since then to not be in your solve?

Your not my highest scum read, but im not town reading you.

[farside22]

Do you think mariaR was distancing with Vecna then?

The discussion was short and quick between them. It was also the only real case maria made out of the 3 suspects. With venca i expect more from him post wise

[farside22]

I feel like i read don's post as a progression of thought and a sudden left turn took place with no warning.

[farside22]

We have 15 hrs let’s make this happen!

yes! your vote for maria shouldn't take more then a few seconds

Why are you town reading maria
Why would I vote for town though, icon?

[farside22]

@don: Why are you town reading maria

[farside22]

Don can go back into my town pile. I don't agree with him, but at least I understand why he thinks what he does. I see more of a lot of how fire see's maria's scum play her. Lots of aggressive pushes, easy to look like she is pushing something unrealistic and looking the better for it. I may not know maria as a player (and I don't want to meta someone right now to find out) but her reasoning doesn't mesh up.
I'm fine with the ABR vote if push comes to shove either ABR or Maria vote at the end of the day is fine with me.

[farside22]

Agree that Maria should not be locked as town but I think based on her posting so far she’s an inferior lynch to any of (ABR, eyestott, knightmare, Vecna, cakez?, S_S?)

Knightmare has seemed to decide not to post in this game any more after the whole lets break the game strategy. I would like to hear more from him.
eyestott....someone said he is not posting anywhere and may need to be replaced.
I like S_S, I think he is town. Call it gut, but after checking his meta I can't see him as scum this game. If he is bravo.
I go back and forth with cakez. Love him, hate him. Giving him time for now since he is voting ABR.

[farside22]

Have you guys considered both voting for ABR? That would be fun

VOTE: Abr

[farside22]

im just gonna say it because ive been thinking it for awhile.
I think ABR hs been quiet is because he doesn't want to be shot tonight and he has one of the town guns.

So id kind of rather ignore him today

or he is scum.
Just saying there are a few quiet players in the game.
But, but, but, I will play devil's advocate and allow that possibility go for now.

VOTE: maria

Idk if he claims gun I’ll listen but until/unless that happens I don’t think it’s a reason to leave him be

Like you’ve floated the theory now so if he is then scum are already going to be working through it

This^^^^

I would rather not have mass claims day 1.

[farside22]

I am silently crying inside.

[farside22]

I think eyestoot and knightmare are aligned. Most likely both town, but possibly both scum therefore both pushing the same shit play and then distancing. Their conflict is a bit overdone. But still probably both town. I'm leaning towards Don c, lilith, and chk being scum. Im still Sl on farside. I could be talked into an ss, vecna, or maria wagon. I still maintain that yesterday's push on Maria was awful.

You will live to end game with reads like this.

I'm leaning towards Don c, lilith, and chk being scum.

I'm with you on Don C and Lilith, but I need you to be with me on eyestott now or else all this falls apart tomorrow.

sure, sure nothing omgus about that at all.

ABR, why arent you sheeping the maria wagon if you feel her catchup is such a mess and you want a wagon so badly? That one seems quite likely to succeed?

This^

so ABR's push there reads like attempted discrediting

Qft

VOTE: abr

[farside22]

I claim Gun Night 1 and will flip as such. Now you can listen to Lilith/DonCorleone your active, helpful, town leaders who want to coddle your imagined collective delusions or the bad boys of mafia votato and ABRRRR


Hahaha bring it on!!

Lets look at the contradictions here. Claims gun.
Prior said he had no gun.
Calls lillith scum next xalled town.

I think EVERY TOWN in this game on some level suspected I was town gun playing it cool

I have not ftr

You're not town either now are you?

See this is a scum post
Town doesn't just assume people pushing them = scum

ummm cakez, u know that isn't true

Cakez and DC are scumbuddies. Lilith / farside are sheep-town victims, bait for the wolves to draw the flock.

I decided not to lead the town as I usually do because Lilith and others would foolishly ignore my reads so I'll play the low power position and join whoever I think is making progress. When Lilith and other players who have all the voting block power fall, my time will come to rise and finish the scum off. It's as simple as that. No I don't have a gun so you can lynch me day 1 if you were hoping I would be vigged.

VOTE: eyestott

I'm leaning towards Don c, lilith, and chk being scum.

I'm with you on Don C and Lilith, but I need you to be with me on eyestott now or else all this falls apart tomorrow.

[farside22]

Cakez and DC are scumbuddies. Lilith / farside are sheep-town victims, bait for the wolves to draw the flock.

Lilith and farside are def sheeping everything in sight.

i wonder if i should be worried about that

Nah i said id vote abr or maria. Just tired of players ignoring maria's post of nothingness.

i think cakez is town. I am weaker on DC but his convo with me felt town in his thought processes. His push on you doesn't seem genuine in my mind because he seems to be ignoring what ur doing. Like not trying to figure u out. But ur kind of doing this bluster thing so maybe he thinks its better for him to ignore it for most part?

I would think abr would have things figured out with what happened with maria as town. He did nothing after and started again when accused doesnt = town abr.

[farside22]

Lets lynch cakez and give ABR the joy of shooting DC tonight

Who called abr scum with venca???
This girl!

[farside22]

Lets look at the contradictions here.

READ AGAIN WHEN THE CHILDREN NAP FARSIDE I KNOW YOUVE BEEN LOOKING AT SURFACE LEVEL CONTRADICTIONS BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO DISTRACTED TO SEE THE OBVIOUS

OF COURSE I DONT WANT TO OUT MYSELF AS VULNERABLE TO GET SHOT TONIGHT BUT FB EXPOSED ME TO THE SCUM TEAM SO I HAVE NO CHOICE

He called you out prior to you claiming no gun.

[farside22]

Cakez and DC are scumbuddies. Lilith / farside are sheep-town victims, bait for the wolves to draw the flock.

Lilith and farside are def sheeping everything in sight.

i wonder if i should be worried about that

Nah i said id vote abr or maria. Just tired of players ignoring maria's post of nothingness.

i think cakez is town. I am weaker on DC but his convo with me felt town in his thought processes. His push on you doesn't seem genuine in my mind because he seems to be ignoring what ur doing. Like not trying to figure u out. But ur kind of doing this bluster thing so maybe he thinks its better for him to ignore it for most part?

I would think abr would have things figured out with what happened with maria as town. He did nothing after and started again when accused doesnt = town abr.

You signed up for too many games or I don't know what's happened to you but your reads are total trash. I am OBVIOUS TOWN AND I WILL DIE TONIGHT GUARANTEED.

*insert flailing pic here*

[farside22]

vote: venca

[farside22]

GET THE VAN READY FIREBRINGER MY REINFORCEMENTS ARE COMING

Ill hammer but I think this is town.

Hard disagree.
He is like this regardless of alignment.
.

[farside22]

UNVOTE: farside. Either ABR is town, and then probably right, or scum, in which case this is a really bad play. Why would scum be this aggressive pushing 1 townie? Worst case ABR is town and wrong, but then we still probably find out tonight with NKs. this is wayyyy better than any of the other wagons, and even if DC flips town, this is real progression. I don't know any of you, but im leaning towards lilith being naive and town, with farside giving intentionally bad reads. Farside is in queue for at least one other game, so doesn't currently feel overwhelmed. If play is subpar for her, its probably on purpose. Vecna flip-flop is a bit odd, and vecna does some off somewhat as tyring to sheep-without-sheeping this game. He has been reading most people the same way town~majority does, iirc. VOTE: doncorleone

Yeah we will see who's read are bad.

[farside22]

This is a horrible counterwagon to ABR

Agreed.

I blame fire for giving abr an out.

[farside22]

Lilith: if abr talks to you, maybe you can ask him why he destroyed the maria wagon.

[farside22]

This is a horrible counterwagon to ABR

Agreed.

I blame fire for giving abr an out.

I regret nothing but not getting my eyescott wagon.

also abr is still town

Sigh, only if betting as still allowed.
You do you babe.

can we all just agree to lynch maria?

YES
VOTE: maria

[farside22]

Didnt DC destroy the maria wagon?

He was also heavily appealing me to change my opinion there

yeah DC destroyed maria wagon. ABR destroyed eyescott wagon.

Now we are all like all over map with ABR and DC wagons

Abr was the one who went rogue attacking lilith and myself, helping maria out

[farside22]

ABR just shoot DC.

VOTE: MariaR

This^^^^

[farside22]

although I dont think the scumteam is simply DC + Maria + Cakez

that seems too simplistic

Knight could be added to any list. He is mia in regards to this game

[farside22]

ABR just shoot DC.

VOTE: MariaR

This^^^^

OOOOOH

so if they lynch YOUR scumread and then shoot DC its all fine huh?

You advocating it is all fine n dandy

I should probably wait with this post to see if lilith also will jump all over this statement, but im sure that wont happen anyway

I dont believe abr is town. Im calling his bluff.
Apparently you can only read abr.

[farside22]

UNVOTE: farside. Either ABR is town, and then probably right, or scum, in which case this is a really bad play. Why would scum be this aggressive pushing 1 townie? Worst case ABR is town and wrong, but then we still probably find out tonight with NKs. this is wayyyy better than any of the other wagons, and even if DC flips town, this is real progression. I don't know any of you, but im leaning towards lilith being naive and town, with farside giving intentionally bad reads. Farside is in queue for at least one other game, so doesn't currently feel overwhelmed. If play is subpar for her, its probably on purpose. Vecna flip-flop is a bit odd, and vecna does some off somewhat as tyring to sheep-without-sheeping this game. He has been reading most people the same way town~majority does, iirc. VOTE: doncorleone

why it seem like ur copying pasting and mixing other peoples opinions.

because the last few pages have been a bit over my head. I don't know anyone's meta. I don't really know what the fuck I'm doing. But based on probabilities, this is my synthesis of what other people have said. I think you'll find some of my own thoughts in there. The main point (my reasoning for sheeping ABR) is my own, and i haven't heard anyone else articulate it. And i think I've been pretty consistent in going after lilith and farside. That shouldn't come as much of a surprise.

pedit: im not scumreading vecna, he just pinged me a bit. I'm just noting my thoughts, although vecna I'll grant you that. Was prolly just a bad read or maybe i got you confused with someone else. Its the hair throwing me off maybe. you should put a hat on. I'll retract my statement about vecna, at least for now.

ok so how did you conclude with voting DC? are you scumreading him and why?

ABR convinced me. I don't know any of you, I have no personal bias towards any of you. Consider it an outsider's perspective. Like I said in the initial post, it seems like following ABR here has little downside. worst case we get a lot of progression/info from flips. But ABR seems really convinced, and unless he was sure he was gonna get lynched, this seems like a really bad play for ABR!scum. At this point ABR is either getting NKd or lynched tomorrow. He's very convinced, so I'm willing to go along with it, at least until someone presents an actual argument as to why hes wrong. so far people just seem to be panicking and saying "no, you're scum! you're scum!"

and whats up with hotdog recently?

Dear child, the wifom for day 2 has so many possibilities.

[farside22]

ABR just shoot DC.

VOTE: MariaR

This^^^^

OOOOOH

so if they lynch YOUR scumread and then shoot DC its all fine huh?

You advocating it is all fine n dandy

I should probably wait with this post to see if lilith also will jump all over this statement, but im sure that wont happen anyway

I dont believe abr is town. Im calling his bluff.
Apparently you can only read abr.

walk me through the bluff from his perspective? what does he gain/lose?

Lets say scum abr has a gun, that give scum more then one kill night 1. Abr can claim the one he did and scum get to kill town free of charge.
Scum abr is free day 2 for shooting who he claim. Scum get 3 dead townies by day 2.
That is all scum need is to lynch town.

[farside22]

ABR just shoot DC.

VOTE: MariaR

This^^^^

OOOOOH

so if they lynch YOUR scumread and then shoot DC its all fine huh?

You advocating it is all fine n dandy

I should probably wait with this post to see if lilith also will jump all over this statement, but im sure that wont happen anyway

I dont believe abr is town. Im calling his bluff.
Apparently you can only read abr.

Hey farside, did you read my iso in the game I linked earlier?

The meta you said you had of me is I lurk a lot right? So I want you to read that very quick iso so we can talk about it after. Let's work together to figure this out.

Im working on this.

Give me a few time to review.

[farside22]

Farside, I will bring up posts you made

only yesterday

.

Cakez moves up on the scum radar.
Weeeeeeee

You agreed with me Sircakez was scummy.

Sigh.
I swear im going to just lurk the rest of this game day

You agreed with me that laying low was a valid town strategy.

some have it more than others
some never have it

this sounds deep.

anyways, u should be voting eyestott buddy

Did she lose her smile?

yes

Meh
VOTE: eyestott

You agreed with me that eyestott was a meh vote but we both half-heartedly voted him for like a second...we were both looking for someone better to vote.

Catching up, but farside I don’t understand your progression on me — I thought I was a SR for you, what did I do since then to not be in your solve?

Your not my highest scum read, but im not town reading you.

We were both not town reading DC.

In the past 24 hours we have been looking at the game with similar lenses. I am angry because of what you did in the last two hours, but I want to let that anger go and understand how we could be so aligned and then you think I'm scum.

Is there a small part of you that thinks confirmation bias is playing a role? Can I really be that great of a scum actor, or am I actually town, and we both see things similarly?

I am grumbling at you and swearing up a storm.
So revised would be dc/mariah/(knight/eye/venca)

From page 46 to page 47, DC derails both bandwagons to vote for yours truly. Who is she protecting, is it eye or MariaR?

I'm not done. There's a LOT more to sift through and a very strong case to be made against DC.

Okay I mean it seems like DC basically tried to derail every existing wagon in that case. You're saying they did that deliberately in order to wagon you?

It wouldn't be the first time abr did something intentional.

I checked the meta. I thought about what was said....i swear.

VOTE: don

[farside22]

I might actually have to take venca off my scum list.

[farside22]

Abr point about dc stopping the wagon on maria was spot on

[farside22]

I might actually have to take venca off my scum list.

The fact I was on there to begin with given recent history is truely wtf to me

I have a big fat ignore button with people.
In all serious i forget things, get tunneled and don't look till someone says i missed something.
I consider this a trait carried by all at ms with the number of times i see people repeat themselves

[farside22]

Nah, I think it's okay, people did figure out what you were doing eventually.

I generally just ignore pedits and just hit submit until it posts, and then go back and respond to the ninjas in separate posts. You might want to try doing that.

Me too. Me too.

the third scum is in {lilith, FB, (ico)} but unlikely ico. These three options on an advanced statistical algorithm. I'm surprised that the algorithm puts farside and chkflip as town.

Id ask why those 3 off the wagon must be scum over others but i bet your response will look scummy. So carry on.

[farside22]

I’ll be around later. The site continues to disappoint with regards to “shouty man good” meta. I can’t say I’m particularly surprised, mostly just disappointed. Imma claim tho just in case — I’m a N1 gun and will be shooting ABR tonight if I’m not lynched by the time I’m on

Policy ABR tomorrow then probably keep hunting on wagon — unless farside has a really good explanation for her flip flops she may be sxum

And the quick turn around continues.

I put a good reason many post ago about why i have no issue letting go of my reads.
Maybe just maybe i didn't believe abr for a reason.
But let me just say this i don't believe

[farside22]

DO NOT DO ANY MASS CLAIMING SCUM WANTS THAT!
VOTATO: i read abr meta, checked a few thing in regards to what happened with maria and abr point is valid.

[farside22]

cant we just let DC and ABR shoot eachother? why waste a lynch? I'm gonna UNVOTE: DC. Its not just that he's shouting, its that he seems to be insisting on things that make sense. Therefore, VOTE: cakez.

@farside: still waiting on you to explain your flip-flop in more detail. The algorithm has nothing to do with them being on or off the wagon. It has nothing to do with the content of any posts. Its based on posting patterns, and I don't want to reveal any details in case it proves to be accurate. It probably isnt.

Maria is fucking scum.
Either deal with that or fuck off

[farside22]

Fuck yiur shitty self and hypocritical bs votato. You are all about looking at someone not being scum and take a different view.
Apparently that only applies to me

[farside22]

Im stepping away.

[farside22]

ABR is totally ignoring me because he knows my meta of him is right and his play for 90% of today was not town
Other people unvotes cuz they are weaksauce and are scared of the loud man
or they are scum perhaps

If we want to talk about on the sidelines I present eyestott, who was coasting even before this real-life event came up

Current meta? Then no it isn't. Past meta.....yeah abr was pretty quiet many a game as town and scum. As I said multiple times, he can and has changed. It's not hard for him to do so.
I am not weak, but I looked back at ABR past meta and I can not find a time he passionately pushed like this as scum. I saw him do shit like this as town, but not scum.
Sooooo.....
Where do you have it as his scum meta?

i left a few hours ago on p 51 ish

wtf

DC claimed scum with cakez

Catch up and vote him

Still sticking with DC/mariah/(knight/eye)

I look forward to post game when I can go back through ABR's pronouncements on my scum-ness once it's outed that I'm town.

This sounds like you really believe he's town.

Looky, looky what someone caught.

And now for DC backtrack to begin.

[farside22]

I'm starting to believe it, yes. It has the hallmarks of intense arrogance rather than fakery which while more irritating (especially because apparently nobody can see that he's full of shit) is also more town. I've been tunnelled by the players who need to try and show that they have the biggest dick in town in their pants before and this is reminiscent. I'm vigging him tonight regardless if I live though.

Why would you vig someone you think is town?

Because he's aggressively wrong and not afraid to try and commandeer a town into doing what he wants regardless of how wrong he is. I think town has an overall higher chance of successfully finding and lynching scum with ABR in the dead thread than in the main thread.

This makes no sense at all. If you think someone is town you don't say you would shot or lynch said player.

[farside22]

Looky, looky what someone caught.

And now for DC backtrack to begin.

This kind of post

is

not

helping

He is backtracking.
Tell me I'm wrong.

S_S you know the worst idea is having this play out. You want to go back to eye? Hell I would vote maria in a hot second if you want, but what player that is town would shot a town read or ask for town read to be lynched.

Because he's aggressively wrong and not afraid to try and commandeer a town into doing what he wants regardless of how wrong he is. I think town has an overall higher chance of successfully finding and lynching scum with ABR in the dead thread than in the main thread.

That's silly. Wouldn't it just be better for him to live but for everyone to ignore him?

If town could be trusted to do that, sure. The 5 vote wagon on me says otherwise.

Appeal to the masses. How I missed you.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

3am catch up time here we go

And only 4 pages in 1 day? Guess I'll have to put some life into this. Don't expect too much from me though I'm not that impressive.

MariaR is being lowkey cute and as much as I hate it I think this may make her scum

I actually really like eyesctott they're coming back from a break or something if I read that correctly and the tone of there posts is really light and relaxed. Like they're just kinda here ya know? I don't see any agenda in their posting. So that raises the question is scum sitting back and just letting these wagons go?

Maybe. Might I suggest a Vecna Farside or Lilth wagon in the meantime? Lets put some life into this game!

I think this post is either (1) town realising that scum are happy with the current wagons because they’re not being voted or (2) scum who has a buddy under suspicion and who is trying to break up the gamestate through advancing the line that scum are happy with the gamestate and therefore a new wagon should happen

Please let me know what question if yours I'm not directly answering so you can stop using buzzwords. That'd be lovely

Hmm, maybe Maria is town

I AM SO CONFUSED RIGHT NOW

eyestort, they are both similar but also vastly different. Both net a modicum of information that is arguably useful but also not very useful; however, both are bad because mass claiming is bad and you should feel bad for letting it snowball to this. I hope this helps.

I'm crying now
does that make you feel good?

VOTE: eyetott

That's not a town mindset, it's scum trying to scare town.

I think there's a very real possibility Knight is scum trying to force a massclaim so he and his buddies can kill all the guns N1
VOTE: Knightmare491

Posts like these

Cakez, why were you posting about eyestott instead of getting involved in Lilith/Maria?

VoteCount 1.6

eyestott [4] - Knightmare491, SirCakez, Firebringer, Albert B. Rampage
Knightmare491 [2] - eyestott, DonCorleone
votato [4] - lilith2013, farside22, Iconeum, chkflip
Iconeum [1] - votato
farside22 [1] - Vecna
Firebringer [1] - MariaR

Not Voting [1]

- Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

Votato has been a wagon almost all game, and I think they've made some pretty genuine posting. It also has 2 people I'm fine with voting at the moment. Shockingly, they're mostly townread (Lilth and farside) so this'll at least get someone to start talking. As for Eye, I need to go iso them because I'm pretty sure I skipped the point of the game where they posted at all.

*be mariaR
*rep into a game where your slot is under mild suspicion at best
*decide to instigate a fight with two relatively consensus townreads
*????
*PROFIT

I actually really like eyesctott they're coming back from a break or something if I read that correctly and the tone of there posts is really light and relaxed. Like they're just kinda here ya know? I don't see any agenda in their posting. So that raises the question is scum sitting back and just letting these wagons go?

Maybe. Might I suggest a Vecna Farside or Lilth wagon in the meantime? Lets put some life into this game!

I agree with her take on the gamestate even if I more or less disagree with her reads. I think Lilith is pretty hard town now, Vecna could be scum and you’re(farside) still more on the side of town than on the side of scum when I balance it

Lilith I feel is forcing her emotions. When I look at her iso I see so many tone shifts. That in and of itself isn't scummy. But when it looks like a pattern that's when it becomes a problem. Whenever she was pushing a scumread it got aggro and whenever it was not it went to friendly/causal. Combine that with the biggest iso in the game and I don't really see strong reasons to townread her. (I could look into her votes but I was being lazy) I think she's a fine vote because she's building up her own advantage. I could quote posts but I don't think this is really shocking info.

Farside, on the other hand, is a really popular townread and I find that super interesting! I can't really get to point A to point B with her. Like I think she has her expectations super high with certain things and not with others. The Cakez read that I brought up for example before. Also check her 2 reads lists in 411 and /781 I didn't see it at first, but really I think she's just trying to shift her gameplay to fit the currant situation. Whatever that may be. I don't see towny solving or good follow up to her scumhunting.

I think this is a really weird decision for scum to push on these two simultaneously as opposed to going for any of the like half of the slots in the game. I don’t think her Lilith take is good overall because I think Lilith has been genuinely trying to solve in ISO but I remember not thinking Lilith was that towny early and disliking her S_S push, so I can jive with Maria thinking this here

THE DOUBLE SCUM TAG TEAM OH BABY I LOVE THIS. Live interaction is my stick lets go, sweeties,

Maria being aggressive and not appeasing

Please let me know what question if yours I'm not directly answering so you can stop using buzzwords. That'd be lovely

Maria being sarky and not appeasing

See I've never dodged a question in my life. If there's ever a question I don't wanna answer I'll tell you. So if you think I dodged a question point it out to me. Saying people dodge questions and thinking no one is gonna bring it up is stupid that's like mafia 101. Just because you're not satisfied with the answer you're given does not mean someone is dodging.

Maria being aggressive again. Like I said, I think Maria being ~*sweet*~ is probably a reasonably strong indicator that she’s scum and I wouldn’t describe her play as ~*sweet*~ here

I wanted to go over a few discrepancies instead of arguing pages of crap in this game.
The reason I started suspected Don is his read on Maria went back and forth during the game part.
He never said anything about the discussion about lilith and Maria when it occured and he didn't respond to anything till I called him out.
He also cast suspicion on Cakez for not discussing anything about what happened between lilith/maria (again neither did he).
Everything he called Maria town for he has called me scum about.
Maria hasn't tried to sort anyone.
Providing irrational behavior.
I wanted to prove that Don's reads were fake in all of this. He basically calls 1 player town for exactly the same behavior lilith and myself just did but it's town for maria.
How is that possible?
How can you declare that to be town when she has sorted no one in the game and she continues to be a town read?

He is also discreting ABR in many post about his ability to scum hunt. That ABR should be shot by him even though he is town reading ABR. Accuing ABR of tearing down the game. Did he forget there were only 3 town gun players in the game?
How is any of that protown thinking? How is that trying to actually scum hunt to win?
That is why my vote is where it is and why it hasn't moved.

[farside22]

yeah if you guys are town you both do owe it to your wincon to keep cooler heads - notice how once people got so butthurt the game completely died. or maybe it was ABRs new avatar that caused it.

This^^^

VOTE: maria

We have enough time for this. Take a chill pill and relax.
Since 2 players have claimed to have a n1 shot, why not have them do it tonight? Before you go all WIFOM on this, the simple things will seriously be explained day 2.
So ABR shots someone other then don in his scum pile
Don can shot someone in his scum pile.
SCUM CAN'T ROLEBLOCK SO THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON TO WORRY ABOUT THIS PLAN.
IF I READ ONE COMMENT ABOUT AN N1 ROSE RIGHT NOW I WILL BITE YOUR HEAD OFF TOO.

In the mean time I suggest getting off the claimed gun players and consolidate onto someone that we all agree is scummy.

[farside22]

So ABR shots someone other then don in his scum pile

I can lynch cakez and shoot maria tonight or vice versa. Any preference?

I would work with that if push comes to shove. I don't see why we can't just lynch Maria. She has done no sorting of anything and helped antagonize the fight. The only reason Don didn't list her is because she didn't vote him.
Don needs to come back.

[farside22]

Everyone who thinks DC is scum by this point probably already voted him, so the rest of you on the sidelines think what, this is TvT?

If that's what the majority thinks, and DC backtracks on all the antitown promises he made (self-voting, shooting town "because town will listen to abr", personal insults, bizarre proclamations about masculinity on the site) if all that is taken back, then IF it's been TvT then we're still in a decent position to lynch scum day 1 and shoot them N1.

Hey I think it's bad too, but as I said before this game has 3 gun players that are town. Lynching/shooting each other is bad. That is why I'm trying to fix this so by day 2 if we are lucky at least 2 town gun players can still be alive.
That would be huge for day 2! That is on day 2, at the very least (hopefully) 2 confirmed town players. You get rid of scum reads with a shot at them and that narrows the field for town to work with.

[farside22]

Excuse me while I sort though a player like maria

Why maria is scum:
this is her catch up post and then this
Any time I asked her to explain her reads she was vague about her reasoning and told me mutiple times to look for myself.
The only time she gave any example of her read on lilith was here This again was based on calling lilith emotions fake.
A lot of her reasoning is based off of something that at best is gut and at worst a lie.
Finally I'm going to use her iso to respond to a post where she claims to sort players out.
iso
The only plus I can give her is not going for either wagon on dc/abr.
But in no way is she trying to sort players. She is creating a narrative about players interactions and the moment she gets attacked she calls them scum without sorting through them at all.
Her push on her scum reads are weak at best.

[farside22]

Hey I think it's bad too, but as I said before this game has 3 gun players that are town.

If Don is one and I'm the other, did I miss one or are they unclaimed?

unclaimed and please keep it that way.
Would you get a case together on why cakez is scum

[farside22]

I would add knightmare to my scum list. He basically popped in, talked set up and made some very vague reasons for scum read on S_S.

[farside22]

So things got weird here.

Ummm are we gonna do Maria lynch then?

You can blame me. I slept on it. Thought about best ways to stop the shit show.

We have more then 24 hours. So pick a scum suspect and go, go, go!

[farside22]

I’m not voting Maria and I’m not really in the mood to play rn. I’ll lynch cakez and if he flips scum ABR should shoot me and I’ll shoot MariaR to clear the mislynch pool after that flip so that people can start looking in the right places.

VOTE: cakez

Not sure if I should be honored or disturbed that Vecna thinks I’m an RC alt

If you shot a player you belieis town and you are town i will see to it you are banned.
That is not a joke.
Are you trying to make the town lose? If so that goes against your win con.

[farside22]

That said the same goes to abr. You signed up to play mafia. Not all games are fair, fun, balanced, ectra.
No shooting claimed gun player from other claimed gun player.

[farside22]

And i have nothing nice i can say.

[farside22]

The two most obvious partnery slots for cakez are me + Maria and those are who most people would be focused on — definitely incorrectly in one case and probably incorrectly in the other. Removing the variables so town can refocus correctly D2 is overall beneficial for the town even if two town players die. The aim of the game is not lynching mafia consecutively 3 days in a row for the win, it’s creating a gamestate in which it is impossible for scum to ultimately win.

Hi do you want to have a civil talk about this for a moment. Please.

[farside22]

That said the same goes to abr. You signed up to play mafia. Not all games are fair, fun, balanced, ectra.
No shooting claimed gun player from other claimed gun player.

They both have huge SRs on each other. Why wouldn't they shoot each other?

You a better then this.

And i explained it briefly already.

But i will be happy to say it one more time.

We know for fact there are 3 town gun player!
Why would you shot some that can be confirmed day 2?

[farside22]

The two most obvious partnery slots for cakez are me + Maria and those are who most people would be focused on — definitely incorrectly in one case and probably incorrectly in the other. Removing the variables so town can refocus correctly D2 is overall beneficial for the town even if two town players die. The aim of the game is not lynching mafia consecutively 3 days in a row for the win, it’s creating a gamestate in which it is impossible for scum to ultimately win.

Hi do you want to have a civil talk about this for a moment. Please.

Yeah, you’ve really seemed like you wanted to have a civil talk with me yesterday when you were going off on how I was scum.

We know for fact there are 3 town gun player!
Why would you shot some that can be confirmed day 2?

[farside22]

I feel like I missed things.
How can we discern between town and scum gun shots farside?

Well thats easy isn't it.
Abr says he is shooting maria.
Don will shoot who he says.
Mafia could try to wifom if they want but then think of what happens day 2 if scum doesn't shot a claimed gun player.

[farside22]

The simple response is scum leaves 3 confirmed town in the game.

[farside22]

So why cakez are you fine with them each shooting each other?

[farside22]

ABR will you self-vig if DC flips town?

I feel like I missed things.
How can we discern between town and scum gun shots farside?

Well thats easy isn't it.
Abr says he is shooting maria.
Don will shoot who he says.
Mafia could try to wifom if they want but then think of what happens day 2 if scum doesn't shot a claimed gun player.

there are roses involved too. There's one way to know for sure.

Yes but any night could be picked. Do you think every player picked n1?

[farside22]

The only thing we know is town has 8 roses.
A

[farside22]

ABR will you self-vig if DC flips town?

I feel like I missed things.
How can we discern between town and scum gun shots farside?

Well thats easy isn't it.
Abr says he is shooting maria.
Don will shoot who he says.
Mafia could try to wifom if they want but then think of what happens day 2 if scum doesn't shot a claimed gun player.

there are roses involved too. There's one way to know for sure.

Yes but any night could be picked. Do you think every player picked n1?

i know not every player picked n1. abr and dc picked n1 tho, unless theyre lying. if theyre lying theyre probably scum. what do you want us to do here farside?

You wont know if they are lying till day 2.
Do you need me to go over every possible scenario? Because that is a lot of unlimited possibilities.
Who are you scum reading outside the 2 claimed players?

[farside22]

So why cakez are you fine with them each shooting each other?

I misunderstood mechanics
At the time I thought that having two contested slots off each other made sense

What did you think the mechanics were?

[farside22]

I meta search votato but games are ongoing.

[farside22]

yeah I'm really not sure what to make of ABR/DC anymore. But i think perhaps whats left of them is best left for day 2. DC's reads have consistently been similar to mine, which is hard to scumread for. Parts of the defense were too AtE and seemed a bit forced possibly. Like i said yesterday, I'm not sure how to read ABR, but it seemed like a bad scumplay to push DC like that. The trade just isnt worth it. ABR seemed super sure. Looking back, if you have a read that strong, i feel like you (ABR) need to reveal who you think the main of DC is so we can judge for ourselves whether your case has merit.

My lynchpool for today is currently: {chkflip, cakez, farside, lilith}.

@lilith why is it scummy for chkflip to get on the DC wagon with me after SRing me, but not scummy for me to do the same after SRing chk? also, your lynch pool now stands at 7 people, right? do you scum read all 7? There's something in the way lilith changes her mind that feels off, but its just a gut feeling. Maybe a close look over her ISO would shed light. I might do that later if this wagon gets going.

that said, I noted opportunistic behavior from chkflip earlier: he was on both KM and my initial wagons, both of which were for super low-hanging fruit. I've made previous arguments for this wagon too.

farside always seems to be arguing against me. I'm sure I'm wrong about some things, maybe even most things. But it seems hard to believe that a fellow townie could be this diametrically opposed to me on reads. I've made previous arguments here.

cakez is largely a sheep. I dont like the defense of DC earlier. the 100% insistence on DC's innocence to me either says scum defending non-scum for townpoints post-flip, or scum defending scum. I don't see why a townie could be that confident. Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe the confidence was played up to increase the likelihood of being taken seriously? I'll leave that for more experienced players to decide. For me, it seems scummy tho.

pedit: I don't think theres anything to be gained from metaing me at this stage. even within this game i think my playstyle has altered drastically.

Meh it is a bad thing i do. I get arrogant and pissy when i see something so blantly scummy and people dont i go into an angry no coming out pissing match.
There is meta for that.

how am I a sheep? I'm the only one still on ABR at this point.

@Chkflip

the main points for why I'm scumreading Vecna are in my iso. The way he reacted to pressure when voting you compared when he put down the vote in the first place. Combine this with illogical reasoning and ways to interpret things. I don't see why I should townread him nor has anyone really gave me reasons to do so. Same goes for my other scumreads.

See i will add this to my scum read on her.
Its again vague reasoning to hold a scum read on someone.

And no i am not going to start another shit post argument that maria is trying to do.
I will even tell player to lynch me tomorrow is maria flips town.
Thats how sure i am of my scum read.
Just like i felt with bb in the last game i played with venca and cakez i am that sure.

[farside22]

Cakez: why are you still voting abr

[farside22]

VoteCount 1.11

eyestott [2] - Knightmare491, Something_Smart
Knightmare491 [1] - eyestott
MariaR [2] - Iconeum, Firebringer
Albert B. Rampage [1] - SirCakez
DonCorleone [6] - Albert B. Rampage, chkflip, Vecna, farside22, votato, DonCorleone
farside22 [1] - MariaR

Not Voting [1]

- lilith2013

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

One misconception i saw was time to lynch.
There is the time. Its not 2 days its just over 1 day.

[farside22]

Its again vague reasoning to hold a scum read on someone.

Look in the mirror.

I know your trying to do more shit posting to start an agrument.
Im helping the guns around and from shooting each othet.
You can try to bury that but i will keep remind those out to shot the plays they are scum reading.
Are you scared of being shot?

[farside22]

I've never once not once tried to start an argument with you. I've wanted to engage and talk with you because we both scumread each other and I want to deal with that because I love doing that. You misrep certain things I say. You think I'm scummy or say stuff that's wrong about you. So why can't we talk like civilized people? I don't know why that's so hard.

Who tries to start an argument? Where's the fun in that? Even if you think I'm scum who tf does that? All I've wanted to do was engage with you but you ignore me all the time because you know, you were a popular townread and sometimes in the back of my mind I go 'maybe I'm wrong let's talk with her' but no I can't even do that. I do think you're scum because the way you treat this is just ugh. I get your meta is death tunneling from what I hear but ignoring the player you death tunnel? I don't get it.

I'ma take a break from the thread I shouldn't let 2 people ruin my mood when the rest of the playerlist is fine.

I tried engaging you. I got the run around response repeatedly.
Why would i want to bang my head on that again with a deadline 32 hours away?
I offered my own lynch and the only thing you did was tunnel on me and smear my name to others when i wasn't here.
Then when i come back you become catty again, so no im not going to interact with someone who is accusing me of something they are doing themselves.
I can step back and reassess this game for a town win.
That is my goal right now.
If your town vote cakez.

[farside22]

Abr: if cakez goes through aim for venca.
I just iso maria and reread it without hate and maybe wrong about how i was interpreted her post.
You can slap me later.

[farside22]

Does farside normally ignore her scumreads or anything her scumreads say? Like, is that normal for her? Please let me know so I can figure out if it's worth trying to speak to her

Just an fyi. I found in the past i would go multiple pages arguing with some i was scum reading and the games became much more toxic then this. I just thought it would be best not to bring that to the game.
Obviously this is still a work in progress

[farside22]

VOTE: cakez

[farside22]

There is still knightmare. He is pretty mia and i know he was posting elswhere. He's barely been here and given surface reads.

[farside22]

Can we put down the snarkiness for a few minutes.
Cakez: who are your scum reads.

[farside22]

I am doing my best to get this game back on a level of working together with fighting or backlash.
I know my reads are all over. I get tunnel, i move, i tunnel, i get bitchy.
I accept that, i appologize, but if we can consoliate our reads we could lynch scum.

So i read maria post and i would go with venca/knight.
I can conceed its possible lilth was buddying me as scum and im not seeing it that way.
Idk

Epwop:
Fire who are you scum reading.

[farside22]

I am doing my best to get this game back on a level of working together with fighting or backlash.
I know my reads are all over. I get tunnel, i move, i tunnel, i get bitchy.
I accept that, i appologize, but if we can consoliate our reads we could lynch scum.

So i read maria post and i would go with venca/knight.
I can conceed its possible lilth was buddying me as scum and im not seeing it that way.
Idk

Epwop:
Fire who are you scum reading.

Are you still scumreading maria?

No.
I can explain if you want.

[farside22]

Also lil who are your top 2 scum reads?

[farside22]

Well abr can be proven town or scum day 2.
I think with eye he just went mia statewide so its hard for me to say yeah thats scum.

Sorry fire, you know id shot you if i was scum. <3

[farside22]

Btw I don’t buy for a minute DC claim he has a gun but I still think he is town.

I am very near my “let’s lynch anyone includiinf me because I’m bored” point

I hope thats not true.

[farside22]

Lil: is there a reason your fence sitting on me and maria like that?

Ill get to the compter to give a full reason later tonight about my read change

[farside22]

In a world with farside town I think my main scumreads would be:

Lilith: I've already explained how I think some of her emotions were planned/overblown you can go back and look at the case for that so I'll leave that part out. I think her taking the sidelines during the whole ABR/Don situation was her trying to fan the flames without getting involved. Her top townread farside suddenly goes to 'yeah I could vote her' while that in and of itself isn't so bad, her reasoning is because farside is tunneling people? Something her meta is known for that Lilth already knows about. Bare in mind they were basically 2 peas in a pod at one point. This is after me and Don start putting a little heat on her as well.

Vecna: I think Vecna has had a lot of his reads flip flop with bare minimum follow up. He questions Cakez recently on why Cakez is townreading him when this is 'one of his more scummy games' Along with the fact his tone changed when he was under pressure for a vote like he was appealing to Don. He got this wrong when I talked to him, but when I corrected him he went with the same excuse of 'interpret it how you want' I can also throw in some useless shading but you get the point.

After that? I'd look in: (Firebringer/Iconeum/votato) everyone else I have some degree of reason to townread.

This mischaracterizes my read on farside - I didn’t say she dropped in my reads due to tunneling but rather due to our thought processes no longer lining up, when her thoughts mirroring mine was the whole reason I was townreading her in the first place. I realized it when she started tunneling DC but I already said I think tunneling itself is just her playstyle.

I am doing my best to get this game back on a level of working together with fighting or backlash.
I know my reads are all over. I get tunnel, i move, i tunnel, i get bitchy.
I accept that, i appologize, but if we can consoliate our reads we could lynch scum.

So i read maria post and i would go with venca/knight.
I can conceed its possible lilth was buddying me as scum and im not seeing it that way.
Idk

Epwop:
Fire who are you scum reading.

Are you still scumreading maria?

No.
I can explain if you want.

Yes please

Also lil who are your top 2 scum reads?

I’ve been flip flopping on maria in my head. Like I disagree with a lot of stuff she says but I think maybe she just believes it and is wrong. Her frustration about not being able to engage with you also felt genuine. So I guess chkflip and vecna?

both post are fence sitting.
Also how can you see both maria and i as scum together with all the fighting between us?

[farside22]

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

[farside22]

lets talk about maria.
So here is a question I think Lilith should respond to, because she has used this as her soul town read on me, until she disagreed with my reads.

pedit: Having matching reads or views isn't and never will be a towntell in my book. You can have whatever reads or views you want on paper. The reasoning behind your actions and stages is what matters to me. Since Vecna is claiming to have the same views as me seeing him flip? That's a ton of info for me.

So how does a player say you are only town as long as your reads match mine and be town.

That was what pinged me. I realized I started to see lilith calling me scum based off of one read only.
One more time
ONE READ ONLY THAT SHE DISAGREED WITH!
That is why she suddenly started scum reading me. That is not a transistion. That is a 180 for weak reason.

So I got further into mariah and her post.

Maria hasn't tried to sort anyone.
Providing irrational behavior.
I wanted to prove that Don's reads were fake in all of this. He basically calls 1 player town for exactly the same behavior lilith and myself just did but it's town for maria.

Okay let’s take a look at this.

‘Maria hasn’t tried to sort anyone’ is obviously false. I have tried to sort most players in the game, you can see that from my catch up and even more obviously in my live posting. But, what I really want to talk about is the angle Farside has taken with me. This whole entire time she’s been trying to paint a false narrative on how I’ve been acting around her. Saying I dodge questions, saying I haven’t been doing X or Y. That this isn’t an answer etc etc.

This is all false. I’ve answered her questions, I've engaged with her etc etc. What is happening here is she won’t talk any answer I give as a valid one. When you play a game like mafia that is opinion based like this, if you don’t give a ‘proper’ answer people won't be satisfied with it. So I ask, is that what farside is doing here? Just not happy with any of my answers that she’s being blissfully stubborn?

No, I think she’s purposely acting like this. People say she’s sorting but I’m pretty sure her vote has flipped to about 5 dif people in the last 2 or 3 IRL days alone. If you look at some of the people she is ‘scumreading’ it really does paint a picture on how she even got to that angle. I saw someone (I believe ABR) go ‘haha Farside is just blind’ no. I would like to think farside is not blind or stupid. Her posts show that she’s competent. There is a point where you just go ‘you’re not this stupid.’ We’ve passed that point.

The second post is a cherry pick you can clearly see the progression Don made on my slot. Also trying to group up my behavior with herself and lilith is priceless. What they did was gang up on me I tried to solve. This isn’t the best part!

He is also discreting ABR in many post about his ability to scum hunt. That ABR should be shot by him even though he is town reading ABR. Accuing ABR of tearing down the game. Did he forget there were only 3 town gun players in the game?
How is any of that protown thinking? How is that trying to actually scum hunt to win?
That is why my vote is where it is and why it hasn't moved.

This is. It’s clear Don is upset and playing with his emotions at least a little. Sure, some of it can be a bit illogical but who was the one who talked about how rational play and MS is funny. Oh wait...it was farside! If she really believed this argument it would go here or she’d at least bring it up. The reality is she just made an argument to fit the narrative at the time and left it

This is not scum. The number of times she continued to want to talk and tried to get a response is not scum. Scum would rather continue the argument (typically my experience in the past of adding fuel to the fire) or lurk when I get to hot momma temper mode

So yes I see why I wondered if lilith had buddied me. I saw the little fence sitting and how she is trying to play Maria and myself as though we should both be her friend and she would love to know about our scum read on each other.
That is what scum would do. Is add fuel to a fire like I said.
I don't think I'll get a lilith wagon going with some of the actions but if it happens I would be there voting.

[farside22]

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

i think youre basically right. but shes also saying that shes fence-sitting. I sorta feel the same way she does though, too. I get some scummy and some towny vibes from both you and maria. But since i FoS lilith, im inclined to think that she's fence-sitting opportunistically.

@vecna, about 28 hours

Hun, I'm more full force going to someone unless I am not sure about them as a player. Just read my last big post and give thoughts.

[farside22]

I also am not sure where you see that I’m scumreading you because I’m pretty sure I just said you dropped in my townreads

You’re still in my lynchpool but idk you could try to convince me on farside

Wow that was a wild read..

I don’t think DC is scum. His reactions, while not necessarily pro-town, seem genuinely frustrated and I think I would react similarly to being deathtunneled (and I think I have in the past.... like you don’t react to being deathtunneled with patience and grace unless you’re a saint, you’re obviously going to be upset about it and people who are using his reaction as a reason to scumread him are probably not thinking about how they would react to being deathtunneled or are scum).

Out of the people on the DC wagon (ABD, chkflip, vecna, farside, votato) I think there has to be 1+ scum.
- I don’t know what my ABR read is anymore because he’s being weirdly reasonable at some points but then really deathtunnely at other points.
- I think chkflip/vecna/votato votes seem opportunistic like they see ABR start to deathtunnel and go “ooh easy mislynch, I just have to let ABR do the work.”

• Votato in particular supposedly doesn’t have info on site meta and I think should have questioned the sudden change in ABR more, but at least was scumreading DC prior to ABR’s push.
  
• Chkflip was still scumreading votato until ABR started pushing and then was apparently totally fine with votato’s slot being on the same wagon as him and stopped pushing votato completely.
  
• Vecna sheeps the wagon even though he thought DC vs ABR was TvT. And there’s a weird transition back and forth in his earlier posts from being really friendly with ABR and then suspicious of him like he doesn’t want to come across as having too strong of a townread. So out of these 3 I think it might be vecna or chkflip.

- farside doesn’t want to listen to anything DC says and unfortunately I’m starting to agree with votato here that once she decides a slot is scummy she just tunnels it as if it’s confscum, which to some extent she said herself is her playstyle. The only person she didn’t do this to is ABR - why? Claims it’s because “meta” and she reread the thread but she didn’t do that for anyone else she was tunneling afaik.

I’m still good with a maria wagon

. Need to reread cakes but I’ve been townreading him up to now. Would also be down for a vecna or chkflip wagon and could be convinced on a farside vote.

yeah not 7, 6. your scumpool seems to be me, vecna, chkflip, maria, farside, ABR?

also you're OK with maria yet youre defending her and saying shes town?

Uhhh...... as I stated in my last paragraph, current lynchpool is maria, vecna, chkflip, a

nd could be convinced on farside

. Where are you seeing ABR or you in that paragraph?

I was actually questioning ABR’s reasoning which I thought was faulty logic. The ABR post may have flipped my maria read

See someone that slips in a town read to hey convince me farside is scum.
This is exactly what I see coming from a scum mind set more then town. The reason I was more suspicious of this is that ABR is a town read. But I'm curious why all you ever say is the same mind set as me, over and over as a town tell.

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

I removed maria from my top lynchpool already
You’re also not in my top lynchpool
Could I be convinced to vote either? Yes, but currently I’m not prepared to.
I’m not saying I have the game solved at all and I don’t try to pin down a whole team or whatever and I’m also not even saying you’re both scum

The bold above contradicts the statement made.
You have made another post that give you free reign to ride either side of the wagon. The "well she's not town, but I don't scum read her so I'm fine with that wagon"
That is many more classic line of you not figuring players out but trying to be ambious as possible in your words.

See and when I look at the meta for lilith she doesn't solely read a player as town just for being in sync with her. Like I searched many different places and I couldn't find a time that she put that as a main reason to town read someone.
(and yes that is within the rules chkflip, you can meta search a player).
So no I'm no longer sold on lilith as town. I don't see the tides changing. I don't think Cakez is scum but I don't see enough time to change this wagon around.
Sorry cakez, ABR said he would shoot venca and I can see with lilith them being scum together especially since they have barely interacted together so you are basically the goat in this game.

[farside22]

meh I got 16 hours to see if anyone reads my post

VOTE: lilith

[farside22]

meh I got 16 hours to see if anyone reads my post

VOTE: lilith

No, bad vote

Why?