Xenoblade 2 Mafia: Game Over

[midwaybear]

How are we going to make sure that drivers and blades actually pair up?
VOTE: beeboy
RVS

[midwaybear]

Is this legit?

[midwaybear]

beeboy is probably just RVSing. If it was legit, he probably would be a lot more serious(I think).

[midwaybear]

How are we going to make sure that drivers and blades actually pair up?

Anyone want to try to answer this? It does seem important that blades are actually able to use their abilities, but full out claiming seems unnatural.
That being said, I'm a blade. Hit me up at night

[midwaybear]

do you mean just mechanically or are you asking for some explicit system run by us players to ensure that happens?

Anything. I thought about it overnight, but couldn't think of anything too good.

[midwaybear]

how important is it that they do?

It would probably be pretty important considering that driver/blade syncs are how we can get some night results.

[midwaybear]

I'm not falling for a N0 claim, I have done that before and, well, it didn't end well for town.

I was also the one claiming a N0 in that game.

Hmm did you actually think it was legit?

[midwaybear]

My guess for first 24 hours was 60 pages and I was told that was too low

Too high

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Cakez
Yeah I'm fine with this too

[midwaybear]

lol id prefer nobody else to claim - that way i'll get lots of drivers

This isn't good though...

[midwaybear]

yeah Cabd does seem ok. It's good that he appears to be doing meta on Cakez.

[midwaybear]

Drivers have traits? Thought that was only for blades.

[midwaybear]

I am a little confused about how we are supposed to link up if we don't know who is blade and who is driver.

Hence, "blind luck", which to me seems a bit wasteful. We'll see.

[midwaybear]

yet you didnt claim?

I did lol
To be honest, I don't really see scum getting rewarded for targeting blades and drivers.

[midwaybear]

my concern is that its far easier for scum drivers/blades to blend in

Hm? What do you mean by this? Blend in to what

[midwaybear]

Bold to assume you're living to f3

[midwaybear]

when i flip town, get that cakey fella

I thought you were very confident in your ability not to get MLed.

[midwaybear]

What? You think people have grudges against you here?

[midwaybear]

wtmoo

[midwaybear]

So OMGUS

That isn't always scummy though... especially for BM(I think).

[midwaybear]

wtmoo

VOTE: midway

oh dear buddy

wtmoo

[midwaybear]

Sure but in this context it doesn't help him

What makes this different then?

[midwaybear]

I'm pretty sure this is the first time I have used that term on this site, so not sure where you are getting that this is a scumtell

[midwaybear]

it's in response to a serious push opening out of the gate with nothing else behind it

Are you describing your own push as serious with nothing else behind that? I'm a bit unsure what you're trying to say here.

[midwaybear]

Hey BM, can you talk about that "scumtell" on me? I don't see why you would be joking there, but I don't see why it is ever a scumtell.
pedit: No, it was my buddy GeneralWu

[midwaybear]

Looks like you pushed him based off of one post and proceeded to scumread his OMGUS. Sure, it makes him look scummy, but I still feel like it is more likely to just be BM.

[midwaybear]

It's not scummy, but it makes you look bad and escalates conflict.

[midwaybear]

His scumread of you is probably what I would expect from town!BM. He tends to be one of those players who wants to be townread, so I think it is natural for him to scumread you back. I'm not sure how I would expect scum!him to act, but that's why I don't really think BM is scum right now.

[midwaybear]

He acted like this in the last game I SRed him though

What game was this?

[midwaybear]

What is a non-specific claim then??

[midwaybear]

sooooo I just remembered that in Chromavalon I actually knew BM was scum from my role >.<
That does not change that he is playing like he did in that game

Has he OMGUSed in towngames though?

[midwaybear]

I was just wondering why you decided to bold that to BM. His claim was already out there, so there's no point in really trying to hide it IMO.

[midwaybear]

spoiler tags please...

[midwaybear]

Still going strong huh

[midwaybear]

NoName might just be like this and I doubt he cares if I'm voting him

VOTE: midwaybear

This however

eh? Something with tone?

[midwaybear]

his confidence was unbridled

I stopped playing like that on this site.

[midwaybear]

I feel his statements are too confident from a perspective of having played with him and just in general

Eh, I feel like I see where you are coming from. There's a difference in the confidence you are seeing...
Well, I can just refer you to my previous post. I don't really play that that anymore. It got me scumread to oblivion, and the way I generated reads didn't really work. I was definitely lucky in reading ND/Dunn as scum that game lol.

[midwaybear]

I think we agree to disagree, but I dug you being on Gamma so I don't really have any beef with you atm

Why do you think that reading me off of one game we played together(like half a year ago-ish) is reliable?

[midwaybear]

I remember it started sometime in May, but after checking it ended in July.
About BM, I didn't really townread him. I just find the way he plays to be a little grating personally, but Cakez reasons didn't seem too substantiated to me. Considering that Cakez apparently only played in BM scum games, it's a bit weird. I like that Cakez backed off though, but neither of them are really confident reads rn.

[midwaybear]

You are infuriating and I’m tired of ignoring the issue!

I mean you joined the game after BM, so...
It also just seems like your vote is based off pure dislike for his playstyle. I get that, but I don't know if I trust it to hit scum.

[midwaybear]

correct. because he's scum.

Why is it because gamma is scum compared to town him just really getting irked?

[midwaybear]

Nope, just saying that you knew you were getting into a game with a player you disliked, so I would expect some measures of caution.

[midwaybear]

Why is Cakez scum again? I was voting him for his entry, but his blunt posting as of right now isn't really pinging me one way or the other.

[midwaybear]

Cakez-so what's different?
I'm already voting Cakez.

[midwaybear]

Forgot to respond. Gamma/BM seems like a clear battle going on, what's your take on it?

Annoying. I feel like I could try to read into their motivations behind this, but I feel like it's just arguing for the sake of it more than anything alignment indicative at this point.

[midwaybear]

Like, he's not going "Look at this read" it really feels like he's saying "Tell me why I'm scum!"

What's the difference

[midwaybear]

It's the difference between him scum hunting and him saying he just wants people to sell him as scum to him.

I feel like he has been scum hunting to some extent. Definitely not just wanting to engage about other's read on him.

[midwaybear]

Cakez so what was the difference between the scum BM from chromavalon and the game you modded?

[midwaybear]

If I lose my conviction on Cakez, I will vote MWNN alongside Bell.

[midwaybear]

Woah Cakez wagon got big. Reading up

[midwaybear]

VOTE: fermis flames

Sorta was thinking this too. At least I didn’t get the high tier TR from Cab on them

[midwaybear]

Still catching up, but did we ever get a Cakez case?

[midwaybear]

Before Cakez is hammered, we should do something about night actions. It’s almost suspicious that nobody has formally cased him.

[midwaybear]

I think if blades want to be visited by more drivers, then that's their incentive to be more towny.

I have thought on this but I feel like there’s a 90% chance it’ll reveal whether I’m a driver/blade on the spot

What?

[midwaybear]

Yeah, we should make Cabd put in work for this Cakez hang.

[midwaybear]

Tells as in hard scum tells? Who is seeing them?

[midwaybear]

Why is fermis flames scummy again? I'm neutral ish now.

[midwaybear]

Ummm

[midwaybear]

Doesn't this wagon just have to go through at this point?

[midwaybear]

His hang pretty much seems inevitable, and it will be a huge distraction if he lives on anyways.

[midwaybear]

Who else here firmly believe in Cakez scum besides Cabd?

[midwaybear]

Seems like no one shares Cabd's conviction that Cakez is scum

[midwaybear]

MWNN reasons for scumreading you make no sense to me.

[midwaybear]

Cabd said earlier that he wasn't going to burn his tell on you because others seemed to be seeing what he was seeing. It doesn't look like anyone here really is seeing what he is seeing.

[midwaybear]

I kinda do.
Not at the same strength but there’s an inkling

Want to tell me why?

[midwaybear]

His huge outburst at BM felt genuine and town motivated

Why did you think it was "town motivated"?
Does anyone townread MWNN?

[midwaybear]

What's wrong with wanting to see how others feel first? Maybe I'm overlooking something about your play.

[midwaybear]

i think if she was scum she might make more of an effort to cultivate an image.

What if Cakez is town?

[midwaybear]

Yeah, but it's not hard to imagine scum!Gamma similarly getting irked and then blowing up at BM.

[midwaybear]

Why wouldn't I give reads as scum? That seems a bit suicidal tbh.

[midwaybear]

But what's the scum motivation for that
Just ignore it

There doesn't always have to be a clear cut scum motivation for scum to do things.

MWNN, first of all, I did give reads earlier in that newbie. Second of all, I find it hard to believe that you think me not giving reads as scum is ever a strategy that I would keep.

[midwaybear]

Ok? Sorta dodging my point that it's weird that you think catching scum me is as simple as me not giving reads(my scum game is bad but not to that extent).
Also, what reads do you even have this game? You talked about Cakez looking like he was more interested in finding out why he was scum rather than scumhunting. I don't find that to be too scummy and it seems like a natural town reaction.

[midwaybear]

UNVOTE: btw

[midwaybear]

He also does little as scum
When he does do stuff though, I think him actually showing the level of engagement he is is actually a town tell

good to know, that takes away some of my reservation there

Not sure why both of you seem to be overlooking that Dunnstral can just be engaged scum?

[midwaybear]

his scum play just has the slick and easy vibe where it doesn't feel like he's really analyzing to his full capacity

Yeah, I feel that towards his scum game too. How has he been different this game though? I feel like he has been play mostly like that though. Any moments where he deviates from that? I was townreading him, but just wondering what you think.

[midwaybear]

"dangerous ego" would imply he's town here, though, no?

Did he say that he scumread FL?

[midwaybear]

Do you hard scumread Cakez Fermi?

[midwaybear]

Do you think you are seeing what he is seeing?
Anyways, I don't feel like approaching a scumread like this is going to be too successful. By holding back on the reasons that you are scumreading Cakez, even if he is scum, it allows him to react in a naturally townie manner that will put people at pause.

[midwaybear]

This post? This is a taylor post.

A HUGE fucking taylor post.

In what way?

[midwaybear]

This is a bad question and you should feel bad.

I still don't really understand. There still seem to be some information withheld.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Cakez ok then

[midwaybear]

i don't really believe you

Why?

[midwaybear]

Are you sure it will be mod revealed? The opening post template doesn't seem to describe flips that way idk

[midwaybear]

ohhh right

[midwaybear]

Unfortunately I believe that BM is genuinely like this as town. Would love to be wrong though.

[midwaybear]

ughh

too many fucking blades what the fuck

I noticed this too. All the claims so far seem to be blades?

[midwaybear]

Ik imma blade. It can be proven easily. If a driver links me, they can prove I'm a blade tomorrow.

Obviously lol

[midwaybear]

Maybe you should full claim...

[midwaybear]

Anyways, I don't feel like approaching a scumread like this is going to be too successful. By holding back on the reasons that you are scumreading Cakez, even if he is scum, it allows him to react in a naturally townie manner that will put people at pause.

I want to bring this up again. Cabd has partially claimed, but it is still mostly based off trust as he hasn't fully revealed what he knows. That's why I wanted a full claim...

[midwaybear]

Since when were we revealing information about abilities

[midwaybear]

Yes, a full claim?

[midwaybear]

I was talking about Cabd not you.

[midwaybear]

Well a full claim will at least be the first step in helping us figure this situation out. This whole strategy of keeping things secret was very unlikely to work out anways.

[midwaybear]

Keeping things secret is always going to evoke that sort of reaction from Cakez as town or scum. That's always going to make people uneasy and that's why his wagon is falling apart. Sure, he got to L-1, but look at what is happening now.

[midwaybear]

Bugging you for what?

[midwaybear]

How am I being obtuse? The push on Cakez was not normal.

I know he likes to drop town tells as scum

What does this mean?

[midwaybear]

@beeboy Are they easier reads for you?

[midwaybear]

If you trust his reads from memory he said he liked noraa?

I thought this was just liking her playstyle and not an actual townread.

[midwaybear]

reads
Bell, Gamma, BM
Cabd, Dunn, Maria, beeboy
Comfortable
Fermi, unwnd, Brian
Regan, cobra
Flavor, l4pe, Gullo, noraa, LLD, firebringer, MWNN, Cakez, catchup

will catch up later

[midwaybear]

I like beeboy for now because his reads are on unwnd and l4pe. I'm pretty sure he is pretty familiar with both of them, so it makes sense for town!beeboy to exclusively have reads on them.
Also, I know my readlist likely wasn't helpful for any of you.

[midwaybear]

mmk so from the list of five probably midway
Would fit in with his waffling around my wagon

Is it not reasonable for me to be skeptical? I did unvote this morning too.

[midwaybear]

Because it was a not normal wagon.

[midwaybear]

So why did you stay on it so long and then you just rejoined it

Because I had some trust and now you should probably die today

[midwaybear]

Firebringer, who do you see as scum between me and the muffin/nacho hydra is then?

[midwaybear]

doesn't really track to townread him for those reads on them when you don't fully agree yourself, no?

beeboy has been lurky in most games recently, so I don't want to read him based off of that. It's not really about whether I agree with them to me(he could be right on both after all), it's just that I feel like it makes sense as a town approach from him. If he was scum, I don't really think he would be so lost(maybe).

[midwaybear]

i have no read opinion of either of u. why am i choosing again?

apparenly cabd has info that there's scum in me, you, cakez, catchup

[midwaybear]

I like muffin but I don't like nacho.

[midwaybear]

no that was a lie, cabd already clarified that

Wait what? He does have a mod-given scumpool though right

[midwaybear]

cabd's list was based on something dumb like people who didn't question his claim which is inherently flawed since it assumes we even knew hed claimed lol

I had no idea he claimed driver
that seems to be what the list is based off of

[midwaybear]

obtusebear

Let's just go with this. I hyperskimmed the 250 posts I missed

[midwaybear]

bush tells me him being a lost lurksack is not abnormal for him as scum. he doesn't like playing it and can't summon the energy to keep up.

I know he lurked in the Undertale game, but he did similarly in the Betrayal game as town.

[midwaybear]

This was the "driver" pumpfake. "find" as opposed to "Choose"

I still don't get that, and I probably missed it anyways.
Well peta did call out your list as fake which is cool ig

[midwaybear]

Imo drivers should just try to do what they think is best and if their target is a blade then yippee!

Well lots of people have already claimed blade, so that's nice.

[midwaybear]

Why isn't Prism posting in the main thread?

[midwaybear]

Maybe prism is posting, but I can't tell them apart.

[midwaybear]

Have you been able to tell peta and Prism's posting apart?

[midwaybear]

amended for protown reasons

This is actually anti-town because we want to maximize driver/blade pairs.

[midwaybear]

Correction, we want to maximize blade/driver pairs without anyone knowing who paired with who until after it occurred.

Yeah, scum knowing who paired means that they should be able to deduce who is driver, who is blade, who isn't, ...
I was thinking that there had to be some sort of solution, but it seems not.

[midwaybear]

I didn't like the way nacho was talking to Cakez earlier today.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Gullotina
Seems legit

[midwaybear]

My vote on Cakez in 101 was not exactly sheeping. I think I was scumreading him a bit for joking too much, but that may not be reliable.

[midwaybear]

I feel like I'm going to be doing a lot of sheeping this game.

Same

[midwaybear]

Do you have, create, or interact with non driver-blade neighborhoods?

Yeah

[midwaybear]

Confirmed blade doesn't mean much.

[midwaybear]

Gullotina's vote doesn't read like a bus vote to me. It reads like a compromise vote.

[midwaybear]

Fair, that why I'm still voting him.

[midwaybear]

This is probably one of those games where you just let your team drag you to victory, midway.

Probably. It does seem like we're in a good situation, so people can keep on doing what they are doing.

[midwaybear]

Hmm now I'm expecting something big.

[midwaybear]

Not sure what you were expecting there Dunnstral

[midwaybear]

I don't think claiming flavor is worth a shot. Mafia probably have fakeclaims, but I suppose there may be some situations in this game where fakeclaims are unlikely.

[midwaybear]

This is an alt pulling a newbie ploy.

No, Guillotina is a newbie. I am less confident on him.
VOTE: Noraa

[midwaybear]

I could still vote for Guillotina though.

[midwaybear]

Hm I'm not sure that's what he meant. I still think he is a new player. He has a 2020 join date on MU and I don't think they do alts there.

[midwaybear]

Ok, well if he is an alt, then yeah he is super scummy lol

[midwaybear]

MWNN said that was a joke claim...

[midwaybear]

Your driver sounds a little sketchy

[midwaybear]

Why would Guillotina pretend to be a newbie while making obscure references to the fermi hydra?

[midwaybear]

Did MWNN ever serious claim driver?

No, who was your driver?

[midwaybear]

Flavor shouldn't confirm people as town though. I think.

[midwaybear]

yknow i could swear beebot had more than 22 posts

Why is that? I thought he was very lurky.

[midwaybear]

compare general post counts and youll see the issue

iirc its like a third of the next highest poster

Ok? But I was asking how you got the impression that he seemed to be posting more than he was.

[midwaybear]

feels too little considering the fact that i still remember hes in the game :p

Do you normally make a lot a lot of filler posts then? I'm not seeing the purpose behind you saying that.

[midwaybear]

Really curious who this driver was...already have some suspicions
I am seeing some of Dunnstral's points about town flailing. Not completely sure though.

[midwaybear]

It doesn't matter who the driver was, though

Probably. I just find it weird that she seems to be relaying a lot of her thoughts through this driver character.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Guillotina
Yes, I'm fine with this too.

[midwaybear]

btw I feel like if Guillo and Noraa ARE both town we need to take a HARD look at Presidents for locking onto two town limbaits today

Is there any difference you've noticed in the way they've handled Noraa/Guillo compared to more townread players like Cabd or Cobra?

[midwaybear]

If there isn't a difference, then I don't think it is scummy.

[midwaybear]

honestly dont link with me actually itll be pointless

Same. I have a hood too, so it's not too lonely.

[midwaybear]

I don't think that was serious.

[midwaybear]

It is getting colder, so hopefully I become right soon.

[midwaybear]

Doesn't Cabd have no utility?

[midwaybear]

He said that he has a semi-useless set of roles. I guess that is better than nothing

[midwaybear]

What is the PoE pool rn?

You, MWNN, beeboy, Regan, Noraa

[midwaybear]

There are some other people who are more split in terms of townread or scumreads, but I feel like the pool I gave is general consensus.

[midwaybear]

WTF is this post haha I officially dislike midwaybear

What's so scummy about it?

[midwaybear]

You just seem really willing to accept the PoE from mostly two people, yet D1 made me think you were more of an individual (yet indecisive) person. Is the PoE you posted the one you agree with?

This is my reads list

Spoiler:

Cabd, Bell, Gamma, BM
cobra, Dunn, catchup,
Comfortable
Flavor, Regan, unwnd, Maria, LLD
Brian, firebringer, beeboy, l4pe
MWNN, Gullo, noraa

so more or less. There isn't a lot of motivation to do stuff right now for me since we seem to be on the right track. Spiffeh doesn't seem very scummy to me right now, but Guillo's play made little sense to me. I'm wondering why he tried to fake being a newbie while also acting like he was an old timer. It's probably better to vote Noraa today.

[midwaybear]

Do you really think I was scummy for saying that?

[midwaybear]

Explain the changes?

I took Maria out of comfortable town tier because I didn't really think she was as townie as I thought. Catchup went into that tier because I found that moment where nacho coached cakez in thread to be unlikely as scum. Also, the main reason I didn't like that slot was because of the coaching, but Cakez flipping scum was a good look.
Cobra Kai seems townie enough, so I also stuck him in there. beeboy dropped out for obvious reasons. I don't think my previous reason for townreading him is valid. Idk he could be too scummy to be scum, but I don't like that logic in general.
The other changes are all some minor stuff.

[midwaybear]

Yes, I think you both are fine players, but not really. Mostly aligns with my own reads.

[midwaybear]

Even if Spiffeh is town, there might be scum abilities that prevent him from shooting Noraa. I think that is what FL was getting at?

[midwaybear]

One shot roles aren't refundable, so I don't think the claim matters.

[midwaybear]

Let's let him give his reads.

[midwaybear]

Why aren't we letting him give reads?

[midwaybear]

He followed up on it...

[midwaybear]

I keep on going back and forth between wanting to unvote and let him give reads and just thinking the Guillotina slot was too bad.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I get how this is very different from the weakest link.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I should try to get a better read on unwnd. I feel that he's been a bit weird this game, but it might not be scummy.

[midwaybear]

Why did midwaybear say this

Seems like no one shares Cabd's conviction that Cakez is scum

While voting for Cakez? Gee

Cakez was also wondering this. I don't really think that is scummy especially now that he has flipped red.

[midwaybear]

Who killed unwnd?

[midwaybear]

As great as everyone else!

[midwaybear]

More cops? Huh

[midwaybear]

It's just a claim. Nothing complicated.

[midwaybear]

Ok, it might be a bit complicated.

[midwaybear]

you will find that out once we flip.

We actually won't because abilities aren't revealed upon flip.

[midwaybear]

We're voting the outed scum first.

[midwaybear]

Oh, well I have been tinfoiling Cabd as scum. That would be exciting.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Spiffeh

[midwaybear]

Thanks for the carry.

[midwaybear]

I didn't townread him for that.

[midwaybear]

Thanks for modding bork

[midwaybear]

I don't think I did.

[midwaybear]

l4pe ruined my perfect hood readlist.

[midwaybear]

BM was great

[midwaybear]

Nice