Epilogue! - [Endgame]

[Isis]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Isis]

Propose a dance with Ydrasse

[Isis]

Who wants to be the draconic czar that impresses upon everyone that our chances are way higher if we leash the daylights out of the dance mechanic

[Isis]

WHY THE FUCK DOES THE OP HAVE AN ACCEPTED DANCE PROPOSAL IN IT YOU ANIMALS STOP

[Isis]

Rescind dance proposal to Ydrasse
with prejudice

[Isis]

you started dancing less than an hour after the game started!!!!

you know I'd hate that!

[Isis]

Ydrasse you chose music over me that's how it feels </3

[Isis]

Firebringer don't accept that

[Isis]

Something to think about is whether you think you can accurately and confidently townread your partner in 6p and 4p because if you can't you will probably leave your partner.

I could probably confidently townread Hectic in endgame or accurately townread Hectic in endgame but not both lul

[Isis]

BTW among the setup abuse +EV things I want to do this game is that I want my dance partner to prod dodge in the game thread and play in the dance PT to wifom the NK
That didn't happen in wolf dance but I want it to happen.
My dance PT will be plenty fun on its own we will play chess and twenty questions and I will bring you crossword puzzles

[Isis]

im totally accepting oka request just not this minute. because i don't want to upset mama isis.

isis. why cant u approve of our dance team!?

It's stronger play to start forming reads before cementing the dance pairings. We have 8 days it's good to use them.

In theory maybe it's optimal play for me to dance with someone early so they can start lurking earlier which makes MariaR's offer tempting if that's what she means.

[Isis]

If I try to read all the posts before dinner there will be more posts before I've read all the posts, and then, and then I will starve.

Please don't do bad dancing while I'm gone.

Dunnstral I'm trusting you.

pedit: is making Hectic lurk in this playerlist a human rights violation tho?

pedit: Firebringer I will be mad at you for accepting any offer but I'll be extra mad if you accept DGB's offer.

[Isis]

I do not like what I am seeing in the OP I was gone for like one hour

[Isis]

22 is GOAT dont @ me

[Isis]

42 is townpings.

I'd like Firebringer to explain why he posted 64

Hectic has like one of the scummiest isos I've seen in quite a while when I line it up against his personality, and if he's scum I know saying this will strike fear in his haberdasher heart.

I'd also like Firebringer to explain 182 in particular because it's false (Starry Night).

@Swizzle: Have you read any other dance games?

Both town and scum want to partner with townie players.

Nobody wants to die with scum even though I think that’s probably optimal play.

Mathematically, from a town point of view, removing players by submitting a leave request to FakeGod winnows scum 50% as effectively as forcing other pairs to leave the dance with democracy. While mafia is a mixture of social deduction and raw odds, in all but once-per-year-crazy exceptional cases, players don't read eachother twice as good as random chance. It's best best to refuse to leave your partner as town until eLo.

Random venting

Spoiler:

Posturing sorting-based S-S dance pairings is normally a difficult to execute thing but when you all normalize lolrandom dance pairings the scumteam kinda just gets to pick an S-S pair to make if they decide they wanna do that :/

298: leuz you should have kept mum and waited to let a non-obvtown townslot post this

I can't play cupid when everyone lolpairs early :/

[Isis]

Isis sooner or later you'll have to sit down and engage with the game in a real way as the IC, and when you do:

I'l be here, waiting

This reads like a really misguided lamist. I like, demonstrably don't have to engage with the game to get sorted town? You know I will because I don't write off games or throw.

This something town!you would post about an unconfirmed player and this comes off as misguided mimicry of that, or like, thinking it lamists even harder because you're sticking your neck out to be "tough" on a confirmed player. It's not more town indicative, it just makes it make less sense and seem obviously performative. Should you get a dance partner here, Dunn?

[Isis]

Firebringer who is Shiro

[Isis]

MariaR why did you dance with Bulge instead of me?

[Isis]

The game started at 9 pm. For part of that I went to Zaxby's.

I wouldn't prefer to be IC but it's only gonna knock off, I dunno, a third of my WIM. I seemed pretty upbeat as a UTR as Lady 3 did I not?

[Isis]

If I went for the straight meta dance pair I think I probably read Hectic well compared to site average.

He's been scummy so far though X_X

[Isis]

MariaR why did you dance with Bulge instead of me?

2 reasons: A) It seemed you were more keen with Hec
B) I would only dance with the IC if I was confident in my ability to towntell incase we survive the NK and in this playlist given the early interactions idk about that.
If you showed an interest in wanting me to dance with you I would've waited.

I did show an interest in wanting to dance with you, so maybe that conditional is only supposed to apply to town!MariaR, perhaps.

[Isis]

My new resolution is to mention The Bulge in lots of games she's not even playing in.

[Isis]

Hectic scumcase:

Spoiler:

59 doesn't devote much attention to how town!Isis feels about the proposal (both flavours of Hectic know I hate it). If I'm 100% of the players Hectic knows are town, how I feel about it matters a lot. If I'm less than 10% of the players Hectic knows are town, how I feel isn't that important compared to other benefits 59 might provide.
I wineswap the WIFOM of the middle comment of 142 mostly scum, this is week.
157 is noncommittally thinking out loud and heavily de ja vu's me to his scumgame in Nightmare, where town Hectic moreso immediately and irresponsibly commits himself to new ideas and disabuses himself of them just as quickly.

[Isis]

MariaR why did you dance with Bulge instead of me?

2 reasons: A) It seemed you were more keen with Hec
B) I would only dance with the IC if I was confident in my ability to towntell incase we survive the NK and in this playlist given the early interactions idk about that.
If you showed an interest in wanting me to dance with you I would've waited.

I did show an interest in wanting to dance with you, so maybe that conditional is only supposed to apply to town!MariaR, perhaps.

Is this a scumread on MariaR?

I think it's a scum indicative fact pattern. I'll leave it ambiguous whether I scumread her overall since she's already paired anyway, since I don't have to show read progression to make myself sortable I can try to eke out some strategic benefit in making scum planning harder. Presenting my actual analysis is still important so town can tell me if I'm making sense or not.

[Isis]

im totally accepting oka request just not this minute. because i don't want to upset mama isis.

isis. why cant u approve of our dance team!?

It's stronger play to start forming reads before cementing the dance pairings. We have 8 days it's good to use them.

In theory maybe it's optimal play for me to dance with someone early so they can start lurking earlier which makes MariaR's offer tempting if that's what she means.

MariaR if I have to misyeet you because of the equity scum!MariaR gets from "missing" this post and getting to pair with whoever she likes, you'll understand right?

[Isis]

Dunnstral has done some things that are scummy for most people and probably not scummy for him. Including something I already scumread him for lol

[Isis]

im totally accepting oka request just not this minute. because i don't want to upset mama isis.

isis. why cant u approve of our dance team!?

It's stronger play to start forming reads before cementing the dance pairings. We have 8 days it's good to use them.

In theory maybe it's optimal play for me to dance with someone early so they can start lurking earlier which makes MariaR's offer tempting if that's what she means.

MariaR if I have to misyeet you because of the equity scum!MariaR gets from "missing" this post and getting to pair with whoever she likes, you'll understand right?

Do you think scum me pretends to miss that post or something?

It's correct that a discrete application lim all liars is not going to apply here. I think it'd be missing the forest for the trees to drop the scumread over that though because there's other gray forms, like both alignments of you reading the text but only town!you taking it to heart, or neither alignments of you reading the text having jumped over it with your eyes, but only town!you taking more time to make sure I was definitely disinterested in the offer before proposing to bulge.

I'd rather you overcome the take with other behavior than pick at it, we can agree it's not allpowerful or immune to pratfalls but that can be fixed with sample size.

[Isis]

59 doesn't devote much attention to how town!Isis feels about the proposal (both flavours of Hectic know I hate it). If I'm 100% of the players Hectic knows are town, how I feel about it matters a lot. If I'm less than 10% of the players Hectic knows are town, how I feel isn't that important compared to other benefits 59 might provide.
I wineswap the WIFOM of the middle comment of 142 mostly scum, this is week.
157 is noncommittally thinking out loud and heavily de ja vu's me to his scumgame in Nightmare, where town Hectic moreso immediately and irresponsibly commits himself to new ideas and disabuses himself of them just as quickly.

1. if hectic clearly knows you hate it why would scum!him propose to ic!you and risk losing cred?
2. why is "I can confidently TR isis" scummy? elaborate
3. I'll look up that game later

1. Because he's upsetting one player and impressing 14. 13? A bunch.
2. Meh maybe it's not.
3. I'd focus on the latter part of Day 1 but nowadays I consider cold meta above a fair expectation of level of effort for people.

[Isis]

Dunnstral has done some things that are scummy for most people and probably not scummy for him. Including something I already scumread him for lol

mind if you point out the thing that you SR him for?

I scumread him for guilting me about not doing much NAI posting yet (uh, well, all my posting is NAI, but, AI about other people, lol).
It seemed lamisty.
Then I remembered lamisting isn't how Dunnstral approaches scum (it's definitely how I approach scum) so I changed my mind.

[Isis]

Dunnstral you're within bounds of the people I'd dance with, but I don't want to pair this early, I'm kind of doubtful about my own readrate on you, and you're someone I'm sad to remove from the game thread.

[Isis]

im totally accepting oka request just not this minute. because i don't want to upset mama isis.

isis. why cant u approve of our dance team!?

It's stronger play to start forming reads before cementing the dance pairings. We have 8 days it's good to use them.

In theory maybe it's optimal play for me to dance with someone early so they can start lurking earlier which makes MariaR's offer tempting if that's what she means.

MariaR if I have to misyeet you because of the equity scum!MariaR gets from "missing" this post and getting to pair with whoever she likes, you'll understand right?

Do you think scum me pretends to miss that post or something?

It's correct that a discrete application lim all liars is not going to apply here. I think it'd be missing the forest for the trees to drop the scumread over that though because there's other gray forms, like both alignments of you reading the text but only town!you taking it to heart, or neither alignments of you reading the text having jumped over it with your eyes, but only town!you taking more time to make sure I was definitely disinterested in the offer before proposing to bulge.

I'd rather you overcome the take with other behavior than pick at it, we can agree it's not allpowerful or immune to pratfalls but that can be fixed with sample size.

Basing a platform of a scumread on me or at least a base, on the fact that I could have faked your 'miss' is probably not the way you want to go about this. You mostly have to go through why wolf me would do/play like that if that was the case. Although, that's really a useless debate and I'm sure you'll see I'm town or probably not be alive enough to do such a thing.

I'm gonna take this as agreement we should move off the point. Even if I'm wrong I'm more likely to get confbiased than correctly disabused.

[Isis]

And I don't want "even if" to be read as bullheadedness because it's not

[Isis]

OkaPoka why haven't you asked me to dance yet

[Isis]

?

[Isis]

Propose a dance with Akarin

[Isis]

OkaPoka's alignment isn't confirmed to me in a scenario where it feels +EV to be voting someone of that alignment so the temptation to keep him around merely because he is an absolute delight is tenfold

Btw I decided I will indefinitely be conceptualizing leuz as a G8 alt

[Isis]

This will end with a Hectic Isis last pair everything else is just the unfortunate necessity of covering all of the arcs that appeared in the manga along the way

[Isis]

Firebringer kawaii des

[Isis]

Especially since I randed scum.

[Isis]

You played a forum speed dance setup as scum as well, why is that worded like you've only done so once?

[Isis]

No,

that

secret alt dance game was called "a wolf, a warlock, and a vampire", but I'm trying to get its fetch nickname to be "wolf dance". I'm not sure whether you played in the Masquerade one or not, I didn't.

[Isis]

Okapoka got painted into a corner by not securing a dance partner early the last time he rolled scum in a dance setup so I am townleaning the fact he hasn't done more to dance with anyone despite it fitting his memey meta to try to get away with it.

[Isis]

Okapoka got painted into a corner by not securing a dance partner early the last time he rolled scum in a dance setup so I am townleaning the fact he hasn't done more to dance with anyone despite it fitting his memey meta to try to get away with it.

Uh... Oka has had a Firebringer dance lined up the whole time, no?

it's a noisy game I'm open to being factually wrong

[Isis]

But you should know that if you accept: I have a soul death pact with Pooky. We're gonna need him alive or my heart will shatter

I only want a partner so pure and true that he'd be willing to descend into depravity with me, willing to siphon the stuffing out of Pooky's body with a straw, snip the threads sewing Pooky's eyes into place with a toenail clipper, and toss his fuzzy outer layer into the compost bin, only to dump a gallon of gasoline in followed by a match. And then, of all things, smile. Corrupted. Irredeemably incorrigible . Seemingly devoid of humanity.

Someone who would not journey with me to that level is not worth teaching whether Waltz is danced in 3/4 time or 4/4 time.

[Isis]

Pooky wanna dance

[Isis]

no don't play the game yet I'm still thinking about it

kind of leaning towards it

do you want to give me a deadline

[Isis]

HECTIC ARE YOU TOWN

[Isis]

i can't accept a proposal before Narset posts, that's wrong

post some stuff about SMB3 level design principles

[Isis]

I call beeboy Narset

[Isis]

I feel like other players read Dunnstral better than I do but I read Hectic better than other players

I don't know how reading beeboy works

I suspect it works kind of like persistence hunting

[Isis]

Accept dance with Akarin

[Isis]

leuz you're obvtown for other reasons I agree that reason is dumb, help me find the scumz

[Isis]

there's no traffic in my kingdom

we spend all the money on balls, nothing to spare for building roads

I am going to no-context quote G8 (who is leuz, who is NOT muffin, at various times)

shelly seems scummy so far. Her lack of interest in a partner seems like a bad kind of wat. I spent a lot of time wondering during wolf dance whether it was super towny or super scummy that lady 8.ghost didn't care about reads and was partner preoccupied, it turned out to be a townslot, so applying that theory I should dislike shell's bellz

[Isis]

I wish Looker was in this game

[Isis]

It's so much easier to say "alt's X main can't be Y" than it is to actually work out who an alt is.

I altguessed NSG in wolfdance and didn't brag about it enough btw

[Isis]

Accept Akarin's proposal to dance

[Isis]

NSG was cagey about outing and didn't heavily engage in postgame discussion but she was a gent3

[Isis]

oh crap, she didn't post in postgame at all

I feel like a jerk now.

[Isis]

i read the thread and feel reasonably confident to give my GTH reads on the playerlist:

DrippingGoofball - tone + early proposal is townpinging.
deleuzional - proposing in FIRST POST is a whole new level of townness than early proposal. it's a move that I think scum never make here.
Hectic - I still stand by my TR here so far, liked the poking at me.
MariaR - 308 feels lamist in a "why am I not being TR'd" way which is scummy. rest of the posts feel quite overeager in pairing up. scumlean atm.
Dunnstral - lots of mechspeak, which is easy towncred for scum. i feel like interactions with me were genuine and they even admitted that i might SR them though? torn on this slot.
Bell - I'm townreading this due to inquisitiveness. Bell has quite obvious differences in their town/scum play and I'm confident in my ability to sort here.
beeboy - not posted
OkaPoka - heavy pushing of "policy clowners + suiciders" feels like fakesolving moreso than hunting scum
PookyTheMagicalBear - I'm giving this a /pass on tone. pooky is a player that is tonally different as scum
Isis - IC
Tayl0r Swift - town by virtue of bluntness and feels more lighthearted while as scum taylor'd be more uptight/efforty
Akarin - im terrible at mech so not sure how accepting the dance invite = scum? otherwise really null
The Bulge - completely cant get my head around early posting, null.
Ydrasse - before the end of day 1 there's usually a point in town!ydrasse's posting where it becomes transparent that she's town. I think she's hit the mark for me.
shellyc - look at me im so town
Firebringer - blunt and direct, townlean but weak
Doctor Drew - early acceptance i'd say it +town, tonally like this slot as well

Too many townreads

Dunnstral is scum; too many townreads is a town tell. He is gaslighting us into calling it a scum tell.

Shelly is town.

What leads you to feel he's gaslighting us rather than being misguided?

[Isis]

That makes me frowny Akarin

[Isis]

Beeboy I wanna say yes except for the part where you said you can read this lobby

Part of me wants to be like "well he said he still wants to dance anyway so I guess he can only mostly read this lobby"
But sometimes I worry you do plays you know in your heart are bad :X

Do you think we're the best pairing?

[Isis]

Dunnstral is it actually harmful to one's approach to the game to have an imbalanced readslist.

I think if you townread everyone but one person, and then that person flips scum, and then you're like oh duh the games not over huh, reevaluate, ok now I scumread... one person.

As long as you're accurate it doesn't seem to matter

[Isis]

I wish I danced with Dunnstral in Starry Night. I'm obviously saying this because I rolled scum and am in a scum mindset right now so I'm more likely to reminisce about my scum games.
Pedit: I think I'm clearly meh enough about Dunn dance that it's understandable not to have the offer out.

[Isis]

I'm actually really in my head about which dance partner to choose

I think I should choose soon for game tempo reasons

[Isis]

Yes I want input

[Isis]

Oh yeah, I am scumreading Hectic aren't I.
Do you know whether beeboy has godly readrate I'd be throwing away?
I think Dunnreads are like pretty good and I think that's the main other thing I'd be considering.

So it seems like beeboy.
It's maybe a little bit of a shame because it's merely an early read on Hectic that might change and one thing I liked about Hectic was being confident he could lurk in game while posting in its PT because of Nightmare Mafia.
But I think the game state here is I should dance with beeboy and that was my strong impulse while catching up. I have a good feeling about it. I'm just very deliberative.

[Isis]

I'm about to pull the trigger, why don't you want me to dance with beeboy leuz?

[Isis]

I wish I danced with Dunnstral in Starry Night. I'm obviously saying this because I rolled scum and am in a scum mindset right now so I'm more likely to reminisce about my scum games.
Pedit: I think I'm clearly meh enough about Dunn dance that it's understandable not to have the offer out.

You don't think I'd figure you out if I were in a pt with you?

I missed this.
Of course you would, it's a matter of how -fun- the game would have been. Getting one of my dance PT scumslips broken down would have been way more satisfying than getting left by someone who didn't feel confident and wanted to reduce his own agency in the game in a way that had little to do with me.

[Isis]

Pooky too? Why does everyone want to dance with me ?!?!?!

[Isis]

?? If leuz is FL then FL is doing a lot more spectating than I would expect

Pedit: yeah melanque was one of my guesses but be sure to spell it "melanque" because it could force him to out in order to get you to stop because melanque hates that.

[Isis]

I think I can have plenty of fun with Hectic in the game thread and in finally remembering why I have the feeling beeboy could use the dance PT effectively: due to the purgatory heaven PT usage

[Isis]

The reads still get into the game, just the really important ones I lie and say they're my idea. Pooky

[Isis]

Pooky are you jealous? :3

[Isis]

I think I have great chemistry with Hectic but that doesn't mean pairing with him with this mechanic in this game at this time
Sorry I think I'm gonna disappoint you leuz

[Isis]

accept OkaPoka

[Isis]

define that beeboy=Narset
Dance with Narset

[Isis]

Choices are hard ok!?!?!?

[Isis]

I’m going to lie to myself and pretend that isis did that because she trusts my reads so much that she believes that she has now guaranteed that she’s pairing with scum

Also isis, just a heads up, if we ever go to final 2 I’m never leaving over you leaving with beeboy

When you post this about your twelve post dance partner it makes me reconsider my townread, because you're tmiing ydrasse town a lot here

[Isis]

You should talk about nai things beeboy

Like telling me whether your location is a reference to the Eldraine set mechanic

[Isis]

Bell I'm skimming your iso

Why didn't you want to dance with me?

[Isis]

How is beeboy never town when he's only posted a handful of times?
What if there's a couple hundred townposts later, why would that not change things?

[Isis]

I don't want Pooky to dance with taylor, taylor is too townie for him

[Isis]

Akarin can turn down as many people as she wants, there are more gentlemen than ladies

Pedit: Pooky did you pick up that phrase from me or do other people use it

Pedit: it is good for the game state for hectic to get a dance partner, even if his scum equity is high

[Isis]

Pooky why are you trying to pocket me when I rolled conftown

[Isis]

Dunn Akarin is like ok but maybe I should slow down and think whether dunn or Akarin would better serve some other pairing

[Isis]

I don't think Hectic excels at managing his associatives which means there's lots of windfall benefit to giving him [undeserved?] second chances to redeem his slot

[Isis]

What is towny about pooky

[Isis]

I want to get along with Bell

[Isis]

Bellswizzle

[Isis]

Pls we only discuss whether beeboy is scum during second dance

For now we discuss his location field

[Isis]

Pooky stop trying to dance with taylor

I know you're scum this game cause you didn't try to dance with me

[Isis]

I posted this on the scum PT also but "gottem"!

[Isis]

Oops I meant mason pt

[Isis]

I meant dance PT haha

[Isis]

I'm not enjoying this game, I wish I'd played normally from the start

I'm sorry, but I wanted to consider you for afk gambit but also wanted to consider every gentleman for afk gambit and even though I accepted beeboy's pitch essentially as soon as I got it, there was a lot of play before that happened :/

[Isis]

Nobody should leave.

Oka poka squawked about optimal mechplay in doctor lonely but didn't really do so in Starry Night so he's seeming town to me so far.

Pedit: I am mafia I was talking to Pooky a lot in the scum PT but now he's gone

[Isis]

Look at everyone playing the game
Really cute

This is my dance partner! Such a smooth stepper ^_^
Are there forty or four posts in the dance PT? Find out next season!

[Isis]

1580 leaves a hell of an impression

[Isis]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Isis]

Could you pls lose faith in all your reads immediately since they're the opposite of mine but you've done townie stuff


Pls

[Isis]

Tell me that after flips not before!

[Isis]

42
Taylor townread seems accurate with 240 reading solvy
254 was appropriate for when it was posted.

I guess it's not much in total

pedit: Don't ask about beeboy reads. I'm townreading those other slots to varying extents though. I'm not sure how anyone can think anything about bulge

[Isis]

All of Bulge's posts this game are between 10 PM and midnight november 16. She hasn't been active lurking so it's not particularly distinguishable from not having time to play

[Isis]

If I knew who you were I bet I would have 19 meta towntells leuz

also I stopped reading when I got to the part where I called you town

since I know the stuff after that is probably confbias
probably

[Isis]

I really didn't like the "I always townread you post" but lots of DGB's later play seems a bit more townish to me. Drew seems very scummy though, unfortunately

[Isis]

I'd like for people to engage about 1580 pls

DGB doesn't have to given her unfortunate position

[Isis]

I want to hear from some people beside leuz and Akarin about it too

[Isis]

I think so

[Isis]

DGB: “leuz is really obvscum”
Isis: “can you provide any evidence to back that up?”
DGB: “uhhhh, wait, I have to have

REASONS

for thinking things!?!? I’m not doing that because blah”

I never asked DGB to back up her read (cause, like, DGB is a shoot from the hip player and it seems kind of silly and futile?)
town!you would be mixing up a confirmed player and an unconfirmed player while scum!you would be mixing up two confirmed players.
Or relying on the post of a town player when your scumpartner's same point was more salient in seek of legitimacy. So like either way it's bad.
VOTE: Ydrasse

[Isis]

1646 is stronk

[Isis]

Yeah, I thought you were akarin

she's probably gonna get so insulted she NKs you now tbh

[Isis]

Ydrasse your new avatar is very scary

[Isis]

Did you pick it out when you got a scum PM to roleplay?

[Isis]

Don't you want to win because this is the first time we've rolled town together?

[Isis]

Egyptian drawings of Isis only showed her with one eye. Therefore, with an eyepatch, she should be blinded.

[Isis]

well put it on so you don’t see me claiming scum in my next post

[Isis]

Dunnstral doesn't really think you're scum, he just doesn't think you can endgame, really.


I consider predance about as important to read as other content.

[Isis]

there's not even a counterwagon to this wagon that was pre-ordained on page 2

look at yourselves

I am scum and I started the expected scum counterwagon on deleuz I will not stand for you to ignore me like this.

[Isis]

I’m not sure if DGB is scum or not but I do think she’s playing to an outdated understanding of the game and to an outdated meta

And I think her scumread on me is mostly her inability to accurately read people who play the way I do because of that outdated meta and understanding of the game

melanque secret alting is such a shameful way to get to stop using the cute anime avatar panzer worked so hard to pick out for you

[Isis]

I tease

anyway people misread people sometimes, it doesn't necessarily have to do with era gaps, and DGB has played a few games in 2020.

[Isis]

Hrm

I do think MariaR tries to insist she's townreadable but I guess maybe she doesn't usually frame it as "scumrange"
I don't have a scumrange btw, and getting confirming my mafia goon role PM so enthusiastically that FakeGod confirms me town is definitely within my scumrange

[Isis]

I should repeat a theory point I mentioned during wolf dance

I thin people are good at identifying which players are >rand scum and significantly less good at identify which players are >>>rand rather than >rand scum
Which skews strategy towards voting out pairs where neither half is townie even if the partner feels "super" scummy

Following that thesis means I should probably put off voting drew for now since DGB kinda townie

[Isis]

I don't think it makes sense to allow half of their team to die to a single future elimination if they're already giving up 1 member in pre-dance.

presumably the plan wasnt to give up a member in predance. most pairs formed early.

ok, but if the scumplan was for maria and me to pair immediately upon my entry into the game, I'd think it would be pretty important to make absolutely sure both other scummos had a partner.

like I said I haven't played or read a dancegame, but having 2 scummos link up and 1 try desperately to link with the ic seems pretty terrible and the theory sounds disjointed. like nothing more than two possible theories mashed together.

There's nothing disjointed about it at all if there are three scum gentleman and one scum lady, as far as I can tell

[Isis]

No actually if you keep muddying up the game with preflip assocs we might manage to fail to bounce all the individually scummy scum and throw the game Oka

[Isis]

There's no way I would ever make a SvS pairing in a playerlist like this but ok.

Do you mean you wouldn't guide anyone on your team to pair S-S? What about this playerlist is unique that would make you feel S-S pairs are bad?
I'm curious which players you think are remarkable

[Isis]

Do you think I'm bullheaded stubborn? I kind of wanted you to be specific so I could try to gauge the authenticity of this line of thought but I can respect not wanting to trash people. I can take it, myself, tho

[Isis]

Making the IC an unlimited shot dayvig isn't good for dayplay

[Isis]

I totally want to win this mafia game based off of analyzing whether Dunn would modify his avatar for Akarin if he was scum or town. I forbid all other topics of discussion for five pages.

[Isis]

Btw if Akarin asked me to add an eyepatch to my avatar I would do it to foster town morale if I was town but I would skip it so I don't seem like I'm pocketing if I was scum.

[Isis]

Dunn changed his avi for L8 actually.

I didn't like the way it looked. He didn't use her pokedex entry smh.

[Isis]

I'm so confused I thought we were already dancing

[Isis]

VOTE: shellyci can't sit and watch this ydrasse tmi

[Isis]

Was totally here the whole time.

@Shellyc, because I wasn't. I was prioritizing another game and I don't know how to say that without getting into mod trouble. Divided attention Bell is bad Bell so went to focus.
The IRL contributed to me waking up at 3pm tho.

In general it helps to put it in the plural to increase vagueness (no matter how many games you are alive in (if it is essential to you that you be more specific than that about how mafia commitment is working against mafia commitment then you are breaking the ongoing games rule))

[Isis]

Shellyc who is Last Pair

[Isis]

Shellyc who is Last Pair

according to fakegod's OP the last pair formed in predance is {Bell/Tayl0r Swift}
let me know if you want me to give a different interpretation

Last Pair is the T-T pair you pick out to win the game.

If you pick a T-T pair correctly and spill wine on everyone else you win 100% of the games with no S-S pair and randomly win like most of the games that do have an S-S pair

Last Pair is as fetch as "wolf dance" because it came from wolf dance, it is in like eyepatches

[Isis]

btw don't call my pair Last Pair don't talk about fight club

[Isis]

There's just no way Pooky/I both enter this game with the tactic of "let's try and partner with the IC and not propose to anyone else until we're in the final 3". For one, despite Isis being an incredibly fun person to talk to, it's very suboptimal for scum to partner with the IC. and it's especially suboptimal for both of us to run that tactic down to the ground until we're in a 3 person PoE. I also got pocketed by Pooky so it should be telling we're not SvS from our interactions...

Hectic
I wanted to change my mind about you so tell me this isn't the vodka talking
but seriously
"Pooky entered this game with the tactic of 'I will try to partner with the IC and not propose to anyone else until I'm in F3'?" How is that in any way an accurate characterization of Pooky's play? Pooky 1. proposed to me in the

centre

of me complaining about pairings happening too fast 2. went on to talk about me and other people being good partners in equal measure 3. announced a soul-death-pact with you that had the predictable effect of turning me off from the prospect of dancing with him, because I want my pair to delete itself purely on the basis of whether it's likely to be a T-T pair, and Pooky would know that and then later posted 4. "I say with no exaggeration that your acceptance of my proposal would mean instant death for me," which I still don't know how to parse but I don't think parses as an actual persuasion towards dancing with him, no matter how you parse it.

So when I hear this framing from you my inclination is to think it's the average of scum!Pooky scum!PT posts saying "i'm going to try to to see if I can get Isis to townread me, if it doesn't work just bus me but if it works out things could go really well" with what was posted in this game thread instead of merely what was posted in this game thread. I'm like, kind of enthusiastic about this cause my correct (admittedly weak, but correct) scumread on him was based on not doing the things he knew he needed to do to get me to dance with him, while doing the things he needed to do to mandela effect that made some kind of normal amount of effort to get a dance partner. And I think like you're better than this?

So "Me and Pooky can't both be scum because bothScumUs wouldn't make it likely for Isis to dance with each of us" doesn't need to break because you're not both scum, it breaks just because Pooky never made it likely I would dance with him. Not even remotely. I'm frustrated and paranoid about the extent to which MariaR's efforts to generate a pairing might have been performative but she did at least ten times as much in terms of actual things that might cause a pairing to happen -bolded text or not is irrelevant.

to be clear i'm asking myself if you're better than this

and drinking too much

[Isis]

*that he made some kind of normal
EBWOP, even as IC SLDFHIWHOQFIJWEQPF

[Isis]

guys does anyone remember in flying scumsman when Ank said "Bitmap has identified the things he should be doing to pretend to be town, then is proceeding to simply not do them"?
I cracked up so much in my [Bitmapless] scum PT because I could see where she was coming from
augh I gotta miss two players at once now IT HURTS

[Isis]

i wanna read hecticccccccc

[Isis]

Hectic I want ENGAGEMENT

are you at least engaging with me in the scum pt pls? <3

[Isis]

Hectic read post 94 then tell me with a straight face that you would take a 1:100 bet that during postgame one of the PTs FakeGod releases is "PookyTheMagialBear-Isis"

100:1 pounds, dollars, happy meal toys, whatever

[Isis]

or maybe you want to talk the position you could have predicted that Pooky never actually dances with me with the way he was conducting himself but you think he thinks he could end up dancing with me with the way he was conducting himself

[Isis]

MariaR won't be mean to me even when I invite her too tsk

[Isis]

Awful hero pretending to be the villain

[Isis]

Are you colouring my name in hectic, because I’m in maf!tiger and it’s a really prettty shade of cyan

Uh, because I didn’t want to? Also if he’s scum then if he realised what I was doing he could more easily tailor the games he picked to try and defeat my purpose in asking the questions. Also, oka is town based on those games

Hmmm, okay, I’m conflicted about your point on alt!etiquette? I feel like not outing people (when you don’t *technically* know who they are) is not so bad if it’s done in scum!PT, esp as you can redact it and it seems to be important for scum to play to wincon? So like, you could have said to pooky “I’m 99% sure deleuzional is X” without breaking alt!outing norms. So I’m not persuaded of your argument here — the fact you’ve talked about it to shelly is also evidence that I think you also would as scum

I think it's a townslip because hectic isn't being imaginative enough to come across the reasons he'd need to out you for wincon but scum!Hectic has already run into them by now lol

[Isis]

Oh he didn't actually identify you to shelly. Hrm.

[Isis]

Hectic what type of alt etiquette is it when I realize who you are because you say you like llamas and then I accidentally call you Hectic instead of your altname on page 100 or so.

[Isis]

Oh he didn't actually identify you to shelly. Hrm.

Oh I read further, apparently Hectic did. I'm back to it being a townslip but not a perfect one

[Isis]

VOTE: Doctor Drew
That's E1 with the doublevoter trigger.
Adelante, the deadline is so rough

[Isis]

Firebringer actually danced with you when I posted without explicitly forbidding it which is as close to obedience as I could expect. I'm very pleased with it.

[Isis]

I wasn't sure pls don't hate me firepup

[Isis]

We don't talk about whether beeboy is town or scum. We can talk about how charming he is.

[Isis]

He is very charming, much charm, didn't you see his last post?

[Isis]

I think the "vote double scummy slots" thing is true but it's like super hard to find doublescummy slots :/. If they ever come up in dance games you should yeet them though.

[Isis]

can someone PM DakeGof and let him know

he'll notice the post you made in the scum PT, he pays attention to when scum PTs get bumped moreso than the game thread.

[Isis]

OUR SONG IS A SLAMMING SCREEN DOOR!

[Isis]

It's an 8 day phase with 3 lims, we we limmed 48 hours in, that's 25% of the deadline, but if you believe the subsequent lims will be more difficult consensus (and I do), then it wasn't a rushthrough

[Isis]

Why though

[Isis]

I don't feel too bad, Drew didn't have time to keep up with a game of this pace and this game is about finalizing a townblock

[Isis]

they're all confirmed town to you, right? What's the difference?

[Isis]

MariaR are you hard scumreading Dunnstral, I would feel compelled to listen to that

but also eyebrows about his effort level, I haven't seen him effort yet as scum (although, I don't have very much trouble imagining him doing so)

[Isis]

Ydrasse </3

[Isis]

Help me find the scums you haven't helped me yet Ydrasse

[Isis]

We should maybe deadsheep deleuz or Dunn scumread, but I don't think DGB's third most significant scumread has enough value to use more of the deadline waiting.

[Isis]

Ydrasse showme showme

[Isis]

that's not French

[Isis]

MariaR seems less like a policyish player than Dunn to me so I hold the greenflip against her moreso than Dunn.

I find Dunnstral's dance partner townier than MariaR's.

[Isis]

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Isis]

I think there is probably scum in the early lolpairs, because Pooky is a player that would normally early lolpair, but he didn't do it this game. So I think he was trying to diversify.

Like scum!Pooky always halfasses an attempt to pair with me yes but if none of his partners are fastpairing he follows it up by lolpairing (usually with Ydrasse in particular but I think he would make a more serious attempt on someone else like maybe shelly)

pedit: policyish was meant to convey my discomfort with that precise term. Maybe a better word would be "utility eliminations".

[Isis]

UNVOTE: Ydrasse

VOTE: leuz

[Isis]

Bellswizzle is endgaming

[Isis]

idk I think I'm pretty noisy

[Isis]

It obviously serves your wincondition to endgame, MariaR. I'd like you to explain how Ydeleuzional is a T-T pair, that's the spicier take to me

[Isis]

ya i’ve done fuck all so far but if it becomes a pattern throughout the game you have more reason to worry (a la forest fire)

also like, regarding shelly and hectic, i don't know if i can get a reasonable read on them or at least i haven't yet. shelly feels different than some of her games (i say this a lot it feels like to her, lmao) in the sense that the way that she approaches pushes/people feels watered down, and i'm unsure if that's a result of internalizing a lot of her discussion with hectic but like. i don't /want/ them to be scum because i wanna play with them but they're a pairing i don't think can make it to endgame for me without me sitting there like, just going "no no no"

my hope is that they towntell more/like, i can interact with them more (i got MAFIA ENERGY now) when they're around on the thread but otherwise right now they're both pretty fuzzy unhappy slots for me

[Isis]

It feels kind of irresponsible to let leuz open up the game with an antitown proposal and then announce that he will only explain why it is protown in a PT with someone he doesn't even know is town but who it benefits him disproportionately to get a positive view of him

like ugh

[Isis]

I know you shouldn't eliminate to "punish bad play" but from a different angle like every other slot and the game has performed the exercise "finish predance without using openwolfing to secure your partner" (except, arguably, Pooky!) and therefore that is something that makes the slot scummier than the other slots.

The same is true to a lesser extent of Ydrasse but there's more meta expectation for her to do path of least resistance type things

[Isis]

I feel pretty lost this game maybe I should pick a player to sheep for about 3 elims and then wineshower if he or she still hasn't flipped me scum by then

[Isis]

ydrasse leuz is one of the only plausible S-S pairs in the game which makes me very uncomfortable sending it towards endgame.

[Isis]

That’s sort of justifiable paranoia at least and is better than anything you’ve said so far

it's been underlying everything i've said so far! it's not a direct way proving either slot town which doesn't make it exciting to lead with.

[Isis]

My townread on fire is not particularly strong, would not fight that much there.

[Isis]

Oka stohp you're so townie this setup is so tragic why do we all love it T_T

[Isis]

That’s sort of justifiable paranoia at least and is better than anything you’ve said so far

it's been underlying everything i've said so far! it's not a direct way proving either slot town which doesn't make it exciting to lead with.

It’s still dumb because I’m pretty obviously town if you look at me again which is something you did know and then spontaneously decided to forget for ??? reasons which is exactly what I bloody well knew you would do

shellyc talked me out of it maybe you should push her

wait is that where you were pushing earlier? it was wasn't it

[Isis]

Okapoka fight for your right to party

[Isis]

X_X

[Isis]

i think leuz townreads Ydrasse more than me

[Isis]

uhh unless people suddenly support flipping maria/bulge or bell/taylor im just going to watch death happen

Pitch me on them

[Isis]

2361 is the only part of Oka's pitch that resonates with me, I mostly feel like he's off.

Maybe we soil shelly here.

I do care what Dunn thinks but I can't remember who he's voting. Firebringer?

[Isis]

VOTE: FakeGod

[Isis]

Even assuming Bell is scum, there is one other scum so find them

I mean, two other scums

[Isis]

Firebringer tell me what I want

[Isis]

VOTE: Bellswizzle

[Isis]

I'm helplesssssss

Pedit: ok I have a reason now. It involves sean connery

[Isis]

U can pick the person isis.

shelly

btw I just realized there could have been a BellShell pairing, neither faction deserves to win at this point.

[Isis]

If Dunnstral kills one of his teammates to boost our morale [[when the dance partner flips scum]] then his gangplank roleplay will reach perfection.

I believe in anime gangplank

[Isis]

what's the case on bell/t-swizz at all btw

I just cant imagine bell/taylor/pooky being all scum at EoD

This is a false dilemma which seems cognitive load scummy

[Isis]

The false dilemma is
Bellswizzle is S-S || Voting Bellswizzle is a good idea
Can be both

[Isis]

if bellswizzle townspews they could be wincon material

[Isis]

It's either scummy because you think proving Bellswizzle isn't S-S is sufficient to prove they're a bad vote, or because you're wasting time on such unimportant analyses

like if you're not presenting a false dilemma then you're leaf raking, either one is bad

[Isis]

It's either scummy because you think proving Bellswizzle isn't S-S is sufficient to prove they're a bad vote, or because you're wasting time on such unimportant analyses

like if you're not presenting a false dilemma then you're leaf raking, either one is bad

Wtf is leaf raking

and I didn't just prove bell/taylor wasn't s/s, I provided reasons on my individual TRs on them.

Yes and it was good that you did that but even bothering with the S-S part seems like low value content to me. It's kind of like IioA.

Leafraking means doing work that doesn't actually have much value. I can't remember if it's a real idiom or my mind made it up