Raw, Unfiltered, UPICK Game Over !

[Fidget]

VOTE: Marky

I find your eagerness disingenuous and will be voting for you as a result

[Fidget]

FIDGET! HAI.

Hey there Flea

I think hinting at your flavor in a way that can be pointed back to later is fine. Outright claiming seems less than optimal to me.

VOTE: Marky

I find your eagerness disingenuous and will be voting for you as a result

Fidget jumping on the back of this immediately afterwards (their sole post so far), strikes me as more suspicous tho. Try harder pls.

What strikes you as suspicious about me?

Great intro Gamma - thank your sir!

Time to put on our thinking caps and batter some scum.

VOTE: Jake 1v1 me bro

--pedit: we are so in sync, Mistyx. Townbloc is clearly already forming

While I agree, I simultaneously find this post to be contrived and therefore suspicious. Let’s prosecute this.

vote: Marky Mark

Tone is subjective, but I can see this thought process coming from a place of being town

VOTE: Marky

I find your eagerness disingenuous and will be voting for you as a result

Fidget jumping on the back of this immediately afterwards (their sole post so far), strikes me as more suspicous tho. Try harder pls.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

I got cursed by a jerkass God, so I don't trust Gods...

I feel like we've kinda started to move beyond RVS - do you have any thoughts on any of the preceding 82 posts?

Hm, okay.

Your eagerness to create content is interesting to me, although I do not find anything you've done hard to fake as of yet. I am curious, do you usually try to get slightly late RVS voters to give thoughts, or was this done on more of a whim, perhaps related to how excited you are to play this game?

[Fidget]

I get that Grendel probably has his hands full answering questions at the moment, but I'd love to toss another one into the thunderdome for him whenever he's gotten those sorted, if this question does not get answered: was your claim that Porkens is the scummiest player related to the curiosity around misty/porkens not claiming flavor?

[Fidget]

Re flavor claims: I do agree flavor almost certainly is not alignment-indicative, bc my flavor character doesn't match my alignment.

I'm lowkey wondering if you're scum here with a flavour that naturally leans toward scum and you're worried about being flavourcopped

That is not a bad observation. I would echo the sentiment that it doesn't make sense for flavor to be attached with alignment, but including her own character was a tad excessive there. I feel that you wouldn't need the knowledge of your own flavor not matching in order to reason that flavor won't be attached to alignment.

It might not even be a flavor cop concern, it might just be a general concern that her character comes off as evil or scummy if/when it gets revealed later.

[Fidget]

What strikes you as suspicious about me?

I make an opening post. Porkens lays out, what seems on the surface, like a fairly reasonable case against it.

You just come along and jump on the wagon. Your justification of eagerness of the back of me making 4 posts feels a bit forced - I was pretty hyped for this after waiting over a month for the game to get going.

I agree, it was fairly forced so I could join an existing wagon. Of course, it seemed like you were going to be a very active, excited player from the get go, and I was interested in whether or not that was being faked in an effort to look at least somewhat proactive.

Your justification that you've been hyped for the game is fair, I had not considered that.

Your eagerness to create content is interesting to me, although I do not find anything you've done hard to fake as of yet. I am curious, do you usually try to get slightly late RVS voters to give thoughts, or was this done on more of a whim, perhaps related to how excited you are to play this game?

"Eagerness to create content" == playing the game. Define interesting? If you suspect me then own your suspicions.

And yeah, game was moving beyond RVS and certain slots weren't making a meaningful effort to engage. I've been bitten by lurkerscum before, and I dont like giving people free rides.

This is true, although there is genuine content and then there is content made in order to look like you are doing something. Quoting someone who hasn't really voiced any opinions and asking them broadly for their opinion on anything is quite easy to do as any alignment, whereas, say, your comment towards cass possibly being concerned with their own flavor being copped shows you're actually thinking deeper which does come off more towny.

What was interesting to me was how you seemed to be bouncing off the walls even if it was only marginally necessary (the eager rvs, telling pork/grendel to answer each other's questions, prodding someone who hasn't given an opinion yet) and I was curious whether it was simply scum trying to look proactive. I would call it suspicious although only to an extent as I am not confident on anything yet, so I suppose I merely called it "interesting", it's something I was noting.

[Fidget]

Wait... if porkens thought flavor could be AI but didn't want to claim their flavor (#40), does that imply they thought their flavor was incriminating and could reveal their alignment to be mafia? Hmm... food for thought.

My flavor would give scum a great guess at my role.

townie pr is a more likely to make a hasty assertion like this then scum is imo. Hasty equal less then 48 hours into the day phase, and there only being a few votes on Porkens. Scum could just lay low and let pressure flow else where.

UNVOTE:

Why do you find this type of claim unlikely for scum to make? You mention that it is hasty and scum would be more likely to withhold this info than a town PR would, however, I might argue the opposite. Scum would be more open-handed with this than a town PR would, as there is no need to hide and fear being nightkilled as the former. I suppose that I am confused where you are coming from with this unvote reasoning.

[Fidget]

Other random thought - why is Fidget calling me out for my eagerness but neglecting to mention Vax, who had a significantly higher post # than me, especially at the time it was written as that was prior to my posts this evening

--pedit @fidget so basically your point is I could be scum trying to fake being proactive or be town actually being proactive. The literal point of the game is to try and sort people between those two categories :P.

'They are doing pro-town things, but it might be scum doing it for towncred'

(my verrry loose paraphrasing) feels like a pretty thin justification for a vote on someone lol. Yeah, I totally agree it's easy to do generic proactive things as scum so none of it is town-indicative, but I am baffled how this is in any way scum indicative either.

Hm, not exactly. I believe that prodding someone with a general "What do you think?" question, telling people to stop arguing, or whatever is something more scummy as it is very easy to do and doesn't really help us solve much. Combined with your eager attitude, it comes off as vaguely showy. I believe that scum has much more to gain looking proactive than town does from more hollow posts like those. It is something one might be more likely to think to make as scum rather than truly think to make in an actual town thought process.

But only marginally so, sure. You're talking about things that show the way you're approaching the game much better now, in any case.

As for Vax, I have glazed over the Zues posts mostly. They don't come off as trying to appear towny so much as trying to appear to be Zues. I am curious about your evaluation of them "engaging with the wider game", I checked through and it appears that they voted Pork and then subsequently unvoted as a result of his nonclaim reasoning, unsure there is anything else.

[Fidget]

Oh I see, Vax finds Mark and Uncrowned suspicious, although hasn't mentioned why as of yet. Okay.

[Fidget]

i dont think acting performative in rvs is really a solid basis for a wagon

VOTE: uncrowned

i dont like that you just hop in and follow a wagon without other thoughts provided!!

do you have any individual takes on anyone?

Why not? For scum, looking towny is more important than not looking towny, after all, and I would argue it's probably the easiest to fake content at the beginning.

I'll sheep this.

VOTE: Mark

I am considering suspecting Uncrowned, but at the same time, it would have been quite easy to have commented on anything at all. He does not even elaborate on why he is voting Mark. This is potentially a complete lack of caring about his own appearance... If I were scum, I would have some thoughts prepared before entering the thread.

I see that the point being made is that Uncrowned does nothing to move the game forward or find scum.. which I would disagree with quite vehemently, actually. Although I cannot judge yet whether the intent was to move the game forward or not, I think it does, possibly more substantially than if he had said more.

[Fidget]

*@mystix*

if you feel marks behavior is null then what are your thoughts on the rest of the marky mark wagon comp?

is naked voting scummy to you?

not inherently, no

but i think uncrowned handled it in a scummy way here, since it was just a follow and devoid of any further content

Isn't "devoid of further content" just the definition of a naked vote? I am confused as to what exactly you found scummy about Uncrowned's vote specifically.

For now,

UNVOTE:

[Fidget]

So to summarise your logic:
1.) Being proactive in RVS more likely comes from being scum than town - I agree here that scum care more about looking town, but town have another major incentive to be proactive: finding scum!
2.) Uncrowned's naked vote on the top wagon is less scummy than if they had justified it - like eh idk maybe. Feels like Too scummy To Be Scum (TM) logic somewhat

I'm still trying to get a feel for you, but phrases like "I am considering suspecting" feel scummy to me. If you SR or TR someone then own your suspicions. If you think its NAI then that's cool too, but either way, being vague is not super helpful here.

You seem to be getting the idea that I'm scumreading you for being proactive/protown. What I find suspicious about you is how some of your posts give the appearance of being protown, but in reality are easy to make and mostly just make you seem like you're doing something than are actually doing something.

I recognize that town can do this too, but I wouldn't classify this as scumreading you for doing anything towny. You do have better posts that make me feel maybe you just have a large desire to create content due to how excited you are for the game, even if it's very little things.

I would argue that a naked vote is not outright scummy, and sheeping an early wagon with a naked vote is not scummy either. I think it's actually pretty protown.

"I am considering suspecting" maybe poor wording. My kneejerk reaction was to scumread Uncrowned for obvious reasons, but the more I thought on it, I ended up closer to town. I had briefly considered voting there but I landed elsewhere.

[Fidget]

No, historically town pr pops and outs info quicker and under less pressure then scum 9 times out of 10.

Scum have a lot more to lose if forced to claim early b/c it locks them into a claim, and makes the follow-up days harder. Like yes, they dont fear being NK'd, but they do fear town catching them at night, or town wondering why the player hinting at having a strong PR is still alive several days later.

Granted Porkens didnt hard claim. They hinted at having a confirmable/strong town role of some sort. So im not hard TRing them. But i think they presented a good enough reaction that I would town lean them.

I see. Thank you.

Less flippantly: I don't find mark's behavior very scummy and I think a lot of the accusations on him look a bit like grasping. Unless, like, you know him really well and are super confident he wouldn't say 'lol' in this situation normally? I am not even convinced he appears that much to be a 'voice of reason.'

Don't know about the 'lol' thing. Here are some things that struck me as more performative than actually useful:

Spoiler:

Great intro Gamma - thank your sir!

Time to put on our thinking caps and batter some scum.

VOTE: Jake 1v1 me bro

--pedit: we are so in sync, Mistyx. Townbloc is clearly already forming

*crickets*

I thought the rest of the playerlist would be itching to get going rn...

Great intro Gamma - thank your sir!

Time to put on our thinking caps and batter some scum.

VOTE: Jake 1v1 me bro

--pedit: we are so in sync, Mistyx. Townbloc is clearly already forming

While I agree, I simultaneously find this post to be contrived and therefore suspicious. Let’s prosecute this.

vote: Marky Mark

Tone is subjective, but I can see this thought process coming from a place of being town

VOTE: Marky

I find your eagerness disingenuous and will be voting for you as a result

Fidget jumping on the back of this immediately afterwards (their sole post so far), strikes me as more suspicous tho. Try harder pls.

@Porkens and Grendel pls just both answer each other's questions and stop arguing over who answers first. Would be interesting to hear from both of you :)

VOTE: Vaxkiller

I got cursed by a jerkass God, so I don't trust Gods...

I feel like we've kinda started to move beyond RVS - do you have any thoughts on any of the preceding 82 posts?

So, forcing reads early, what felt like overdoing it in RVS to me, and a couple of very SE/IC ish posts where he tells Pork/Grendel to stop arguing and answer each other, and asks Turin for his thoughts on anything.

I am somewhat appeased by Marky just being excited for the game, but there is a lingering question in my mind.

'They are doing pro-town things, but it might be scum doing it for towncred'

1.) Being proactive in RVS more likely comes from being scum than town - I agree here that scum care more about looking town, but town have another major incentive to be proactive: finding scum!

Your point is still essentially that scum could replicate anything that I've done this game. This is true, but does not make me scum.

Mark never seems to frame my suspicions quite right, this is not what I'm saying nor the other people who have pointed out his potential performativeness. It is much easier to strike down our argument when he frames it this way. Intentional or not though, I don't know.

[Fidget]

Hopefully that post explains it better, Mark?

[Fidget]

Uncrowned (4): Mistyx, Marky Mark, Cassowary, Flea The Magician

I feel pretty confident there is scum on this wagon (or to a lesser extent, Uncrowned is scum, but that is not my current thinking).

Re other thoughts, I find uncrowned's opening super weird - like, why come in that way? If you hadn't caught up on the game to have other opinions, why cast a vote in your first post when we were already kinda coming out of rvs? Feels like scum trying to imitate slacking town. I'll join the uncrowned wagon for the sake of having a vote somewhere.

I think this is a much better justification for voting Uncrowned than him being scummy for not contributing to the discussion. This is actually something I was considering myself. The last game I have seen of Uncrowned, he mentioned intentionally playing different to try out a new playstyle. It was less effort than his usual style (However, he did not naked vote in RVS, and he did have early reads, so not totally slacking so much as trying somewhat less). He was town that game, though.

Uncrowned calling out an over explaination with an over explaination seems dodge to me. VOTE: Uncrowned
*sips tea and noms a biccie*

This doesn't strike me as very good faith. Based on what criteria are you considering Uncrowned's response an over-explanation, and why does that make him scummy, in any case?

VOTE: Flea

[Fidget]

Why did marky vote them?

Marky and Uncrowned have been discussing that already. Marky feels that Uncrowned's naked vote is scum-indicative because it does not further progress the game or give us insight into Uncrowned's alignment, so it is therefore scum motivated to do.

Uncrowned responds by saying Marky is making the assumption that scum!Uncrowned thinks he can get Marky quick eliminated, which is false. I believe that Uncrowned partially missed Marky's point with this response (that assumption was not made), but he does also mention that his naked vote could be done to force content from Mark, which I agree with. It is not anti-town or scummy by default.

At the moment I find it plausible for Mark to believe Uncrowned is scummy by his reasoning, although I disagree with it. I need more to figure him out than just that particular wagon entrance.

Comparison of the explanation offered by Uncrowned to the explanation being deemed as over-explained. One is much much more explanatory than the other.

This early D1, someone can insult my tea and I'd vote them, honestly.

Right, but Marky is responding to a naked vote with an arguably lengthy explanation, since he pretty much is reiterating Uncrowned is scummy for not helping about 3 times:

Uncrowned on the other hand, rocks up, votes for me, and contributes 0 to the conversation. Just does not help us move the game forward or find scum, which is ofc lined up with scum's motives

Whereas Uncrowned's post is a response to that which talks about several points, sure, but didn't strike me as overdoing it.

The reason I am asking is because it does not seem to me you are considering what they are actually saying. Uncrowned's post is longer, but I am unsure where you are getting overexplaining from it.

I can't let you go based off of "it's RVS" (or "early D1"), either, as you've joined probably the most serious (or tied for most) serious wagon so far as the fourth vote using wrong reasoning in my eyes. Are you saying here that your vote was not serious?

[Fidget]

Apologies for the absence, should have time later today.