Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Saber]

I've been swindled. I was promised high rates of pay and high quality entertainment, but the only good to come out of this gig so far is the chocolate cake - which is absolutely fantastic and I will write a note to the chef praising their work shortly.

[Saber]

peta/prism both scum?

wild

Now, you may be from different parts to me, but isn't that a tad rude? Calling people 'scum'?

Although I suppose being paid while the rest of us are leeched off of is pretty dastardly.

VOTE: prism

[Saber]

Servant Saber will you enter into a binding contract with me

Well then, the binding contract has been formed.

I really wish the higher ups implemented more rules for these contracts, but apparently anyone can just waltz in and write a contract with me.

You have 3 Command Spells.

[Saber]

As of page 6, I think we should treat the majority vote the producers have imposed upon us as one of elimination from the stage. It seems quite cruel of the director to imply elimination when it's infact a knighting, so I believe the latter to be less likely.

I'll be treating my vote as one to kill and believe others should too. If it does come out that the person the majority chooses is not eliminated, we can look back on the day's events to see which players wheren't truly voting for those who they wished to kill.

Great flavour by the way! I hope the "chair of execution" has some special effects like smoke and sparks, and whoever sits on the chair should act like they're really being electrocuted. I'll also get a frying pan and some chicken to replicate the scent of burning flesh.

[Saber]

I don't particularly understand Prism's tilt but don't see it as a paid actor tactic either, given it's going to draw more negative attention than positive. Will assume it's frustration regardless of how much she's being paid and move on.

My town slip is that I didn't even realize there were events until pooky mentioned it and I scrolled up

(sorry for not reading the setup before MT, now that I have it is really awesome though!!)

Uh we are not all VT

You're right. Anyone want to claim they aren't a VT?

I actually didn't read that part and was trying to draw a kill LMAO

I don't like this, I believe Look At Me I'm So Unpaid is the professional term in the industry.

[Saber]

I will continue from that post in a future time.

Don't tell anyone but I'm quite terrified of Pooky. He holds a great deal of power over me and it doesn't look like he's throwing out the command spells easily. I just wish he'd use a couple for me to post some high quality memes or something.

[Saber]

VOTE: Dwlee

[Saber]

Infinity, the actors have to fake their thought processes while contestants don't, the way we catch them is by spotting ones that look ingenuine.

[Saber]

All of Pooky’s SRs feel valid
Typically if Pooky is town I end up thinking one or more of his SRs are bad

Peta/Prism/Ydrasse all seem like okay slots to sus rn

From his perspective as well as in general those 3 aren’t great so far
Peta’s kinda felt reactive
Prism’s desire to be acquitted was a little skeevy and his reaction to being sussed was to claim joke which while technically valid doesn’t negate what actual tangible game thoughts he displayed with his joke
Ydrasse trying to jump in on the pockit fun felt a little overwrought

It's too early in the game to be voting someone because 'I don't think any of their paid actor reads are bad and I usually do' when Gamma has other valid suspicions.

It may just be inoptimal play over paid actor play though, since the reasons for his other suspicions are reasonable.

[Saber]

Infinity is scummy, skitter's post is less scummy, but if infinity is scum it reads like a way to distance without actually pushing. Also the gamma vote. --- Gamma probably is town ---

Were you of this opinion while he was being voted? Could you also expand on it?

[Saber]

I was pumped to see a few pages to read, but still didnt find anything I really wanted to bite into. Sadface.

Pls stop pediting me

yeah ceph is scum

VOTE: cephrir

it feels like he is trying to look like his town game but it's not actually his towngame

Why did 560 in particular give you that impression? Wouldn't it be far easier for him to throw out a couple of contestant or paid actor accusations if he's trying to replicate a contestant game? (I am assuming his contestant game involves proactivity and opinions)

[Saber]

Saber talk yomeeee

Sorry, still catching up, flightful bird! I love the costume by the way, I'll just assume it's a hobby and not something you're being paid for.

[Saber]

Gamma's tried like 4 different playstyle shifts, all of them unnatural/one-dimensional and all of them with the goal of getting the vote off of him rather than legitimately sorting. We're far enough along that people have forgotten the phase where he pretended to be scum to WIFOM us into going elsewhere.

I agree with this, I've noticed shifts in the way he's acting and it's been jarring every time.

For the example the phase where he tries to act like a jester(?) in 375 / 385 felt very unnatural. Also, the vote and attempt to 1v1 you also seemed to come at random time, more likened to being borne of Gamma thinking 'this might be a good time to shift approach' rather than him actually spontaneously believing you're a paid actor in that moment.

I'll vote him once I've caught up if he isn't 1 vote away from the chair.

[Saber]

All caught up. Free to be of assistance, Taly.

VOTE: Gamma

I'll get back to you on 780, Dwlee. I'm skimming through the script of the previous show Radio Buzz to see if I can ascertain any differences.

[Saber]

Although the reason I asked you in the first place was because of the possibility you were a paid actor whiteknighting Gamma since you weren't actually trying to convince players that he was a contestant with any real reasons.

I'm less interested in this now though, since Gamma is probably a wealthy paid actor.

[Saber]

usually if town-her feels i'm reading her wrong (which has happened multiple times in the past), she kicks into gear, starts pushing me, and has a visceral sort of response.

fwiw i think this would be quite bad townplay to continue down this path after radio buzz.

Could you expand on this?

I also see you read skitter as town, do you see her approach to you as different from that game?

[Saber]

usually if town-her feels i'm reading her wrong (which has happened multiple times in the past), she kicks into gear, starts pushing me, and has a visceral sort of response.

fwiw i think this would be quite bad townplay to continue down this path after radio buzz.

Could you expand on this?

I also see you read skitter as town, do you see her approach to you as different from that game?[/quote

honestly it probably wasn't great play in the first place to expect skitter to always read me correctly, but especially now that i know she doesn't. skitter is a very strong scum player, and i don't have the tools to confidently read her at this stage of the game. it's probably best practice to wait until later on to read her, after we know whether she's been pushing town or scum and have more pieces of the gamestate. (this is what menalque does and he knows her really well). since we don't know if scum can kill this might be a bit more difficult than normal but i think it's fine still

i don't really think it's useful to compare her approach that game to this game since my play is so different.

I think that's fair. I also think you would feel somewhat obligated to try and replicate the way you reacted in that game to her suspicions if you were paid, so your relative nonchalance here is probably indicative of no money in your pockets.

I also see Gamma as vastly different in that show, mostly in tone. His tone comes across as very inquisitive and relaxed in that game, while he feels more erratic and on edge here. Perhaps because there's money on the line and he could get the sack?

[Saber]

From his perspective as well as in general those 3 aren’t great so far
Peta’s kinda felt reactive
Prism’s desire to be acquitted was a little skeevy and his reaction to being sussed was to claim joke which while technically valid doesn’t negate what actual tangible game thoughts he displayed with his joke
Ydrasse trying to jump in on the pockit fun felt a little overwrought

it feels like ur trying to frame this more from like, the perspective of validating pooky instead of stuff /you/ believe in even though you're able 2 espouse these reasons

like clearly you think these things

you think we're scummy 2 some degree

but it sort of wraps around to pooky being scummy because... ?

very strange mental gymnastics

I liked Ydrasse for being the first to point this out, I had very similar thoughts with regards to what Gamma was doing with his script.

[Saber]

Taly's probably my strongest contestant for how pure and cheerful he is and how he encourages players to engage and play the game in fun ways. There's almost an agenda in the way he posts, but the agenda is to get everyone to post more and have fun which would be quite disadvantageous as a stagehand. The Gamma case was also very good.

I saw you asked me a question earlier Taly and I'll go dig it up tomorrow, I need to sleep soon.

[Saber]

Does anyone have $20 I could borrow? I promise to pay it back very soon.

[Saber]

VOTE: ulyana
I feel like she's dispassionate and disconnected from the game in a way that she wasn't in radio buzz as rousseau, but somewhat reminds me of what I remember tracy flick being like in student council

Without looking at meta I disagree with this read

then you're probably evil too because I think what I'm seeing should be plainly obvious if you even glance at ulyana's ISO or just pay attention to what she says as you read up
and this is a different brand of obviousness than what I was throwing around before, that's was like a bright flame to me, this is like a strong current of a river

Probably evil

seems strong for someone simply disagreeing with a read of yours. Are any of Infinity, skitter, of Ydrasse probably evil for disagreeing?

[Saber]

Does anyone have $20 I could borrow? I promise to pay it back very soon.

I got 15

I'll take that and another 5, thanks.

[Saber]

Does anyone have $20 I could borrow? I promise to pay it back very soon.

Your generosity is noteworthy, but where did you get such deep pockets from? You must work a high paying job.

[Saber]

Tbf shiki was coming from an informed perspective with something to latch onto + more content (the callers)

I've asserted that was what helped me not flounder in that game
why is it valid for ulyana and not for me?

because ulyana did not out some very not-good takes

that's exactly the problem

she has barely any actual takes this game at all

VOTE: ulyana
I feel like she's dispassionate and disconnected from the game in a way that she wasn't in radio buzz as rousseau, but somewhat reminds me of what I remember tracy flick being like in student council

Without looking at meta I disagree with this read

then you're probably evil too because I think what I'm seeing should be plainly obvious if you even glance at ulyana's ISO or just pay attention to what she says as you read up
and this is a different brand of obviousness than what I was throwing around before, that's was like a bright flame to me, this is like a strong current of a river

Probably evil

seems strong for someone simply disagreeing with a read of yours. Are any of Infinity, skitter, of Ydrasse probably evil for disagreeing?

no, those are just about locked in, and I don't like you trying to steer suspicion towards the reads I feel the best about rn
tbh it sucks that the people I trust most seem to be the ones that want me dead the most, because the only hope I have is they have mercy in their hearts and don't forsake me

Are you playing dumb? It should be clear that I'm not steering suspicion towards those 3, and am instead questioning your own thoughts?

[Saber]

The strength of Gamma's reads feel very off. Dunnstral is probably evil for disagreeing with his ulyana read, but skitter, Ydrasse, and Infinity aren't because they're pretty much 'locked in' as town?

I'm finding this mental rock climbing hard to believe.

[Saber]

Taly's probably my strongest contestant for how pure and cheerful he is and how he encourages players to engage and play the game in fun ways. There's almost an agenda in the way he posts, but the agenda is to get everyone to post more and have fun which would be quite disadvantageous as a stagehand. The Gamma case was also very good.

I saw you asked me a question earlier Taly and I'll go dig it up tomorrow, I need to sleep soon.

Hehe yay

This rose my wim. Thank you.

Happy to help!

[Saber]

Reading just the last three pages or whatever, I don't have a good feeling.

VOTE: Gamma

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure why I was voting Gamma. It seems like eons ago.

Wait, I remember. Gamma said something about how he wanted out. Which was a weird thing and pinged me wrong.

It must have been a frustration thing because you seem to be fighting it now, Gamma.

I strongly prefer Gamma but I don't really mind this Galron wagon, some of their posts just make me tilt my head. 820-822 was one of those sequences that felt off.

Also, noting now that Gamma and Galron are unlikely to be Stagehand-Stagehand given Galron forgot he'd already unvoted Gamma and Stagehands would be more conscious of their vote status on a partner.

[Saber]

Gamma's behavior still doesn't make sense to me. He's calling his defender Infinity a 'dear friend', but then is strangely antagonistic to Dwlee who's also defending him.

I see skitter's point about it being counterproductive in the second case if he's paid actor, but..... I lost my train of thought and don't really know where I'm going with this. I'm probably confbiasing myself since I'm attributing erratic behavior to always be indicative of money, so never mind.

[Saber]

All caught up. Free to be of assistance, Taly.

VOTE: Gamma

I'll get back to you on 780, Dwlee. I'm skimming through the script of the previous show Radio Buzz to see if I can ascertain any differences.

How do you feel about

Cakez-Toog-Cephrir

?

Thoughts that come to my head right now:
Cakez - Unsure, but I remember disliking some of his takes.
Toog - His uncaring play is more likely to be town, doesn't give the feeling he cares about how his posts will look every time he pops in. An example would be the vote on Prism.
Cephrir - Was below null until he started posting about how this game is a wash because of similarities to the last show etc which I thought was pretty towny.

[Saber]

I like that response.

[Saber]

Gamma, what your thoughts on the Galron wagon and your read on him right now?

[Saber]

My thoughts on the wagon are it seems mostly backed by those in my upper tiers, so that’s a good sign
My opinion of Galron himself is that he kinda has started to feel like he did in Radio Buzz but I lack a hard instance of where I’m getting that feeling, it’s just there. However, I also vaguely TRed scum Galron in mini 2234 so I probably just don’t know him well enough to claim actual accuracy at reading him.
So like, I don’t feel like I personally want to be a part of the wagon, but I’m not stopping others from pursuing the Galron elim if that’s what they think will flip scum.

So what I'm getting is that the wagon is pushed by your co testant-reads and you feel unsure about Galron, yet you won't vote him despite him being your counterwagon?

Your answer is lacking awareness of the fact that you're competing with him right now, what do you want to achieve with Dunnstral on 2 votes?

[Saber]

I don't think he is being coached i think he is just town, for the record
also nothing Galron is posting is making me want to move my vote

What's worse is the way Gamma's acting around it though. He's paid and trying too hard to not appear survivalistic, whereas he would probably care less if he was a contestant.

[Saber]

We can easily settle this coaching debate once and for all.

Gypyx, who do you most look up to in this playerlist?

[Saber]

Galron. By all accounts he should be okay with voting him given his townreads are on there and Galron is a toss up for him.

[Saber]

I mean
Gamma has been vote hopping like crazy all game
what is the motivation to stop doing it now?

That's the point, because it'll look bad for him if he does it now onto his counterwagon.

[Saber]

We can easily settle this coaching debate once and for all.

Gypyx, who do you most look up to in this playerlist?

depends

as in "damn they gud" Ydrasse / Skitter

as in "please show me the way i'm alone and scared aaaaaaah" Pooks / peta

Okay, and do you feel confident in your reads so far, Pooky?

[Saber]

I mean
Gamma has been vote hopping like crazy all game
what is the motivation to stop doing it now?

I dunno

that's why it's weird af.

he was so desperate to vote any1 but himself

but when an actual viable counterwagon shows up.

he's like finding some weird as f excuses to stay off the wagon.

Yeah, exactly.

[Saber]

I mean
Gamma has been vote hopping like crazy all game
what is the motivation to stop doing it now?

That's the point, because it'll look bad for him if he does it now onto his counterwagon.

Correction: He's

afraid

it'll look bad for him voting a counterwagon but actually it would've been fine and probably what town would do.

[Saber]

Toog - His uncaring play is more likely to be town, doesn't give the feeling he cares about how his posts will look every time he pops in. An example would be the vote on Prism.

fwiw the fact that nearly everyone is townreading toog for being too scummy to be scum is a little weird

Weird how? People Too Much Knowledge of Pay-ing on him?

I've had a look at a Toogeloo stagehand game and he does make an attempt to look like he's being useful.

[Saber]

Gamma had an opportunity to vote himself into the chair though.

So the theory that they are playing to get into the chair is probably incorrect regardless (though that doesn't necessarily make him town because the chair isn't necessarily or even likely to be good)

I hate this from Dunnstral

100 points for anyone who can figure out why I hate this

Real eyes realize real lies... or truths!

Maybe because Gamma hammering himself would be akin to a stagehand claim?

Also Gamma is very clearly not a stagehand trying to get voted right now anyway, given the effort he's putting in.

[Saber]

I'll vote for ulyana but only if 5 players vote for me first.

[Saber]

i think gamma is looking quite a lot better post prism-tilt-fight thing tbh

Meh, I still think he has deep pockets. His observations have been trending upwards but it's hard to let go of all the stuff that's already there.

[Saber]

1455 is a very interesting theory if the chair isn't just an execution. I still think that's the most likely outcome but this could be very fruitful if it isn't.

[Saber]

1455 is a very interesting theory if the chair isn't just an execution. I still think that's the most likely outcome but this could be very fruitful if it isn't.

Actually wrapping my head around it I think it's fishy regardless of what the chair does.

[Saber]

Saber, masons?

Masons!

[Saber]

I want to flip Uly and Dunn now.

can everyone just maybe talk to me instead of this

like

yeah

Hi, have your thoughts changed on Gamma any? I believe you said it appeared like he was setting up to execute you and this is why you voted him, but doesn't that mean you shouldn't want him to be 'executed'? Correct me if I'm misremembering any of that.

[Saber]

Hi, have your thoughts changed on Gamma any? I believe you said it appeared like he was setting up to execute you and this is why you voted him, but doesn't that mean you shouldn't want him to be 'executed'? Correct me if I'm misremembering any of that.

it felt like he may have been, and the push on me felt like ungrounded and just to possibly explain future actions,

I suppose what I'm getting at is that do you have any other reasons to suspect Gamma? Given your one reason right now is dependant on him potentially wanting to be voted.

[Saber]

I'm a sucker for this stuff but ulyana calling players out for not asking for her view or opinions before saying they want to flip her has a certain towny righteousness to it.

[Saber]

Excellent fishmongering.

[Saber]

fwiw the fact that nearly everyone is townreading toog for being too scummy to be scum is a little weird

Weird, right?

I'm playing to my innocent child meta, obv.

I think I've spotted a crumb in this post.

The 'right' is obviously referring to 'the customer is always right' meaning Toogeloo is a

consumer

of goods. Perhaps a firearms expert.

[Saber]

Both of Gamma and Galron's reasons for not voting each other are bizarre, and pursuing vanity show runs elsewhere is independently stagehandy, but I don't think their interactions are Stagehand-Stagehand, and 1258.

[Saber]

I feel like I'm doing a lot of Gamma defending, but his wagon being the initial wagon and not having any competition 3 days into the game seems off. If Gamma's scum, his buddies aren't doing their job.

At least now we have a viable counter to gamma, which helps make sense of the game. This one-wagon day was kinda inexplicable.

How did it help make sense of the game for you? The purpose of your wagon was to be the counter to Gamma and many players expressed as much when they voted you. Do you think Gamma's buddies are doing their jobs now?

For a solid chunk of time from mid-D1 to some time D3 you were solid town for me, because a couple of the things you posted felt towny for kinda oddball reasons

I was giving town reads that game, which is different from this one. I actually had some decent town reads Day 1 in RB, but this game, I got Taly and ??? I actually think you may be town, which is not my default read on you because you've fooled me so many times. But you seem vulnerable here, and that isn't what I usually see from you, which kind of makes me think your'e town.

By 'usually see from you' do you mean from Gamma as a stagehand or Gamma generally?

[Saber]

Do you think scum are involved with the Galron wagon, Saber?

Most likely. I think you're a stagehand and the Galron wagon is your buddies attempt to save you. Whether they're instigating it (skitter) or taking advantage of it (petapan amongst others) I'm unsure of though.

Or it's Galron and I'm wrong on you but that can't be the case because I'm incapable of being wrong.

[Saber]

It'd help my confidence if Galron wasn't acting like he's in possession of illegal substances.

[Saber]

Do you think scum are involved with the Galron wagon, Saber?

Most likely. I think you're a stagehand and the Galron wagon is your buddies attempt to save you. Whether they're instigating it (skitter) or taking advantage of it (petapan amongst others) I'm unsure of though.

Or it's Galron and I'm wrong on you but that can't be the case because I'm incapable of being wrong.

I'm not inclined to feel good about this stance when half of the Galron wagon are my top TRs, and also the exact same TRs you tried to fuck with before

Interesting that that's the reason you dislike the stance and not because you're town.

[Saber]

Do you think scum are involved with the Galron wagon, Saber?

Most likely. I think you're a stagehand and the Galron wagon is your buddies attempt to save you. Whether they're instigating it (skitter) or taking advantage of it (petapan amongst others) I'm unsure of though.

Or it's Galron and I'm wrong on you but that can't be the case because I'm incapable of being wrong.

I'm not inclined to feel good about this stance when half of the Galron wagon are my top TRs,

and also the exact same TRs you tried to fuck with before

This doesn't go unnoticed, by the way. Your insistence that I was trying to mess with your townreads rather than questioning your thought process is absurd.

1064 - addressed here. I don't see how Gamma really believes this.

[Saber]

Do you think scum are involved with the Galron wagon, Saber?

Most likely. I think you're a stagehand and the Galron wagon is your buddies attempt to save you. Whether they're instigating it (skitter) or taking advantage of it (petapan amongst others) I'm unsure of though.

Or it's Galron and I'm wrong on you but that can't be the case because I'm incapable of being wrong.

I'm not inclined to feel good about this stance when half of the Galron wagon are my top TRs,

and also the exact same TRs you tried to fuck with before

This doesn't go unnoticed, by the way. Your insistence that I was trying to mess with your townreads rather than questioning your thought process is absurd.

1064 - addressed here. I don't see how Gamma really believes this.

@Cephrir/Dunnstral: Is the Holy Grail making me mad or is this an interpretation a contestant should absolutely not be making?

[Saber]

Strap Gamma in.

[Saber]

Do you think scum are involved with the Galron wagon, Saber?

Most likely. I think you're a stagehand and the Galron wagon is your buddies attempt to save you. Whether they're instigating it (skitter) or taking advantage of it (petapan amongst others) I'm unsure of though.

Or it's Galron and I'm wrong on you but that can't be the case because I'm incapable of being wrong.

kinda feel like you're calling galron *just scummy enough* that you can plausibly join that wagon too
like in a hedge-y sort of way

Nah, Galron may be dealing drugs on the side but Gamma is the shining stagehand. I implore you to vote him.

[Saber]

Why not.

VOTE: Gamma

HMMMMM

Why is this remotely suspicious to Gamma when he did the same thing shortly before.

[Saber]

so from your pov what have scum been doing this phase?

If you're asking me: Voting on the counterwagon, what else? Not going to look too closely where currently (pre-flip isn't very useful).

[Saber]

You’re HIGH if you don’t think SOMETHING hinky is going on with Galron. The timing of his vote on me makes ZERO sense.

Why is anyone voting for Galron over Gamma after seeing this post?

The day's approaching stagnation and people want everyone to vote within Gamma/Galron.
Gamma votes for Galron despite thinking it's a misflip.
Galron does the same thing, yet Gamma thinks it's incredibly suspicious for Galron to do essentially the same thing he has?

I see it as Stagehand-Gamma pulling out whatever he can to convince players to vote Galron over him.

[Saber]

What a strange answer. Just saying contestant would've saved you a lot of time, you know.

[Saber]

I also need to sign off soon, but I'm going to reiterate that I find Gamma's shift of stance on Galron to be very Stagehand-indicative. He's gone from being stubborn on not voting Galron despite competing with him, to being suspicious of him over this one post:

Why not.

VOTE: Gamma

While Gamma has done the exact same thing 1 page ago:

VOTE: Galron
I still think this is a misyeet but it's pretty clearly locked between us two here.

[Saber]

I'm stagehands with Taly, Taly, and Taly actually. I wasn't sure why Morning Tweet allowed a reverse-hydra in the game, but Taly assured her it'd be fine and he'd 'carry'.

[Saber]

He's worried about Galron and I being stagehands I think. Aggressive defenses like this are actually pretty unlikely to come from S-S on day 1 though, in my opinion.

[Saber]

Me too. Good thing I'm not!

[Saber]

[Saber]

I guess I should start reading Gamma as a whole rather than latch onto a few things he did earlier which were paid. The progressions in his catchup and reevaluation as a whole did seem very genuine.

Infinity, I normally prefer to look at one or two things someone has done and determine whether they are likely to come from a contestant or a stagehand, and then value that over trying to read someone for all their actions as that can get muddy.

[Saber]

@Saber: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

As for my reads:
Taly
skitter petapan
Ydrasse Infinity
Gamma Toogeloo Cephrir
SirCakez Dunnstral Dwlee
Galron

Maybe something like this. By the way, I won't be free much this weekend but I will return with spoils of war.

[Saber]

Good point, Gypyx would be in the second tier, and ulyana would be compressed between the second and third.

Who would be your 4 person pool then, if you disagree with mine?

[Saber]

Out of time now but I'll get back to you. Reminders for later:
-Gamma reactions
-Infinity tunnel
-Dunnstral Pooky
-Pushes on Gamma

[Saber]

Dang
Kinda feeling like shit today for obvious reasons but will reeval soon

This reaction seems a little overblown given we already knew Pooky was a contestant who was sabotaged, Cephrir was the only unknown.

Also, Pooky didn't seem as universally contestant read as Taly so there may be something in his reads (or Taly's reads) that's responsible.

[Saber]

Most vocal stagehand or suspicions from Pooky I can see are on Gamma, Dunnstral, and petapan. He also supported a S-S theory for the two leading wagons.

[Saber]

I'm extremely frustrated. I feel like I'm playing a completely different game, and I'm getting angry. At myself for not seeing what others are.

Hmm.

Players stating they're frustrated and angry over showing that frustration and anger over their posts tends to be a stagehand-indicative thing.

You can tell contestants are just from what they're posting, but stagehands need to explicitly tell you if they're looking for an advantage from it.

[Saber]

i hope you're town so i don't get accused of that post being scum theater

you think dwlee about to be flipped or…?

no just

down the line


anyway i got what i wanted out of this phase and i'm ready to move on, was just typing some thoughts up

This sounds like you knew this phase was coming.

shut the fuck up wolf

Why are you mad at him if you think he's a stagehand doing his job?

[Saber]

I'm not interested in voting for Ydrasse or Gypyx. I don't like Infinity voting for Gypyx on the basis Gamma contestant means Prism more likely to be a stagehand.

Infinity, you've made this assumption twice now that the people pushing Gamma the most are more likely to be a stagehand now that Gamma is probably a contestant - first with me, and now with Prism. The problem with that is the fact stagehands knew how the chair in the first phase would work, and that it comes with a heavy risk of the chaired person simply OMGUS executing their pusher.

I'm sure stagehand Prism would have some more reservations of pushing Gamma so aggressively had she considered this factor, which I'm sure she would've.

[Saber]

VOTE: Galron

The shot on Galron being sabotaged does suggest Galron may be a stagehand also. Stagehands only own 2 of those, so following occam's razor killing the player who was saved due to it does seem like a good idea.

As for the second player in the duel, possibly Dunnstral largely due to Pooky's theory that he brought with him to the grave.

[Saber]

I didn't have time to express thsie earlier; the most stagehand part of Gamma's whole monologue were probably these 2 posts:

Well this is an interesting position. Looks like both the minority stances were right in a sense, funnily enough. My gut inclination is to shoot in my SRs but I ain’t gonna fuck around and find out. I want to consider my reads again with the truth of the chair in mind.

Well that was unfortunate but I think inevitable. I have an idea about why Pooky was selected to die. It’s getting factored into my new decision though, so I’ll hold onto it until I’m ready to make the call.

These reactions seem quite muted for a relatively emotive person like Gamma, from what we've seen from the rest of this game.

[Saber]

Despite my qualms, the amount of effort and being top poster by a long shot is quite unlikely to come from a stagehand, though. Contestants dominate that statistic a lot. I may just dislike his erratic playstyle.

[Saber]

ulyana, how do you feel about Galron after your exchange with him?

The production has been amazing so far by the way. It almost seemed like Pooky and Cephrir

really

were being electrocuted in those chairs. I love how they played along and writhed around, and I had the burnt chicken on standby of course.

[Saber]

I'm mindmelding strongly with

Saber

. I think it's best I lean in and refrain from suspicion here. I did notice that she hasn't touched my recent posts on her.

I think I'd prefer

peta

over

Dunn

at the moment. I did not like his interaction with

Galron

at all.

I don't believe Pooky's prodding towards me end of day was any real suspicion, I read it as he thought I was a contestant and would be sad if I was a stagehand.

[Saber]

Despite my qualms, the amount of effort and being top poster by a long shot is quite unlikely to come from a stagehand, though. Contestants dominate that statistic a lot. I may just dislike his erratic playstyle.

Do you find a benefit of the doubt with slots like

Dunn/Peta/Galron

?

Not sure what you mean, can you rephrase the question?

[Saber]

2127 - Oozes contestants from Taly, I don't see a stagehand faking a winding complex thought process like this.
2138 - That's a good point I think.

I'm not interested in voting for Ydrasse or Gypyx. I don't like Infinity voting for Gypyx on the basis Gamma contestant means Prism more likely to be a stagehand.

Infinity, you've made this assumption twice now that the people pushing Gamma the most are more likely to be a stagehand now that Gamma is probably a contestant - first with me, and now with Prism. The problem with that is the fact stagehands knew how the chair in the first phase would work, and that it comes with a heavy risk of the chaired person simply OMGUS executing their pusher.

I'm sure stagehand Prism would have some more reservations of pushing Gamma so aggressively had she considered this factor, which I'm sure she would've.

you say you don't like it but do you think it makes infinity scummy

Yeah, it's stage 1 type thinking which I think is more likely to come from a stagehand, we don't know Gamma's alignment for one to confidently base reads off of him, but assuming Infinity is a stagehand, it's not a bad route for her to pursue other votes on Gamma's pushers if they're contestants, and she knows Gamma is a contestant.

[Saber]

Back later today.

[Saber]

is there that big of a difference between gamma being 90+% to be town and 100% that it should affect how i approach my reads

Depends, what's a baseline contestant percentage for you?

If you are a contestant, it's very dangerous game to start assuming certain players are contestants and then base reads off of them, it's the same reason why pre-flip associative reads are often as good as rolling a dice for your reads.

[Saber]

I still think the unwnd/Galron slot is a stagehand.

[Saber]

Well, it's probably more of a playstyle difference and not tied to your alignment.

[Saber]

On unwnd:

He enters the game with the premise that we should be looking for stagehands on the Gamma wagon. The problem with that is that his slot is the only other wagon in the VC he links in 2204. It’s very strange for a contestant to look at 2 wagons, one of them being on their own slot, and think

We should look for stagehands on the other wagon

- a player that is unknown to him, rather than his own wagon which he should know to be on a contestant.

I also think it’s a faulty premise to be looking for stagehands primarily on the Gamma wagon if both wagons were on contestants, since stagehands would have very little stake in who gets executed and have no incentive to vote for Gamma over Galron.

[Saber]

I also think the motive behind certain posts of his are stagehand-motivated over contestant-motivated.

One example would be this unaligned read on Dunnstral and I:

If Saber flips scum at any point in this game she's not scum with Dunnstral based on something I just read

You can consider that vice-versa

If contestant-unwnd's goal is to convince players of this read and not flip one of us if the other if flips stagehand, he's done a lousy attempt at convincing players. I don't think he as a contestant would realistically think that anyone would follow this advice if he wasn't around, given he hasn't even quoted or expanded on why he believes this to be the case.

One particular post from Saber with her vote placed onto me (Galron) and a light finger pointed towards Dunn. Just seems extraordinarily misplaced and didn't seem like a distance attempt

Someone asks him why and he expands a little more on it, but still doesn't bother to quote the post. His motives seem to be more interested in appearing contestanty and like he's solving rather than actually convincing players of these reads he's posting.

[Saber]

Point me to it?

[Saber]

unwnd, I'll read over everything more closely rather than skimming parts later, but your style seems very... theatrical? I get the feeling you know you need to turn this slot around and you're posting whatever things you can to try and change people's opinions. Would be useful to know if you post like this normally.

[Saber]

I may also be viewing you through crimson-colored glassed because I thought Galron was a stagehand and the replacement didn't help my view of your slot.

[Saber]

I'm not reading this bye

Did you end up reading?

[Saber]

I'm finding it really hard to read Cakez, he doesn't give many reasons for his reads.

[Saber]

I'm not reading this bye

Did you end up reading?

Nope

VOTE: Infinity

Why did you switch from unwnd to Infinity then?

[Saber]

My cakez read is not that he's in catchup mode. I'm not sure how that thought was lost in translation.

I was in the car thinking about how you think I'm theatrical Saber. In what way would that determine a read on me? My short answer remains but I'm pretty sure I just like to write. I lean into prose because that's what makes mafia fun to me. Thinking about concepts and wording and such. I'm capable of faking it as scum to my own credit.

Theatrical as in the motive I read behind certain things you post are to make you appear more like a contestant, you're putting in a lot of effort to appear transparent, like how you went through a whole progression on your Dunnstral read without any new Dunnatral content coming in and changing your opinion of him.

[Saber]

Lot more to read through which I'll get to soon.

For now: Gamma, what are your issues with me? As far as I can remember, it's because you disliked how I changed my opinion on you, but a lot of players saw the exact same things I did? Your contestant spew during the execution decision was the number 1 reason many including myself changed our minds, so I'm not sure why you're honing in on my progession being suspicious.

[Saber]

like it felt like lights were off and i could relate to that

Can you clarify what “lights were off” means?

it is like,

sometimes i am very excited for a game almost always if i sign up and stay signed up i am very much excited to be playing it

but then the game starts and i flip the switch to turn on the lights and the lights do not come on

and it feels like i can't make sense of anything and all of my thoughts are like 'yup they are a player in this game'

and then others are like 'she must be a scums!' or worse they are like why don't you just try flipping that switch again it's right there and i am like that's not how lights work

Maybe the solution is to light a candle and once you become comfortable with the candlelight, to kindle a cozy campfire to increase the luminosity in stages.

And then you can light fire to the world and truly open your eyes.

[Saber]

Reading Ydrasse as a contestant because most of her frustration seems to stem from the fact that she's outraged that stagehand-unwnd thought she would be an easy misexecution to push this game because she's apathetic. Her pushing back at that and righteously stating 'she won't be rolled over' and 'you picked the wrong person to pick a fight with' comes from a really contestant perspective.

[Saber]

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.

Yes, it was both. My point was that your shifts in attitude seemed unnatural, which is the main way to tell whether they're from a stagehand or contestant. It can only be theorised whether they're actually tactical because they didn't even go well for you. For example, your acting like a jester and then turning on Prism only seemed to attract more heat on you, so saying it's a stagehand tactic is iffy since you'd be actively pursuing bad tactics. I'd prefer to look at whether it was actually natural for you start acting those ways when you did.

[Saber]

Uly

is void of scum motivation. I feel she would have trapped herself by now. She seems to be closer to a stream of consciousness type player and the rabbit holes she digs herself in do not feel fluffy because it is genuine.

I feel dumb for saying it but I unironically think she's a contestant for all the 'mmmmmmmm's and instantaneous reactions she puts in the thread to posts that make her think. It's an easily fakeable thing but something I don't think stagehands normally think to fake, since it does little to actually make them look like a contestant.

Oh, what the hell.

VOTE: Cakez

The two-ended admission of bussing is very on the nose.

Plus my self-vote is at best distracting with less payoff the longer it is on.

Drunk Cakez's posting is funny and that's all I got.

[Saber]

I feel sorta bad for unwnd because he's repped into a tough position and I think his frustration is genuine, but regardless I think he's a stagehand.

During his interaction with Ydrasse, he starts of by implying she would be a good candidate for the duel:

I have zero clue why you believe I'm scum

Last time we talked I was again towny

And it's not like you have your own data besides the one game we were scum together?

You give me a flip I want and you'll see that more

it hard to give to this because what i already laid out like you have to be TOWN upfront and the flip you want has to be NOT TOWN

I would like Infinity/Ydra

But once Ydrasse fights back with this vote and posts beyond it:

VOTE: unwnd

Simply Perish

unwnd's tone seems to change, he's trying to diffuse the situation and claiming he was extending an olive branch:

I'm not setting you up for anything, I literally am giving you olive branches

like you keep asking me like 'am i bussing then?' 'don't you usually do this?' 'i thought you just had this experience with me?'

and it's smug inane bullshit to distract from the fact you're trying to push me out with infinity because you think there's ~1 scum between us~ though there's literally like, nothing to actually support that other than you throwing out an arbitrary pairing

I haven't been here and this is like the first interaction that wasn't just 'i am demotivated' that I can latch onto. The vigor against me is slightly unpleasant but if you're awake now then I'm fine with it. I want to understand how Infinity flipping scum would affect your worldview. It's a genuine question.

I think the switch in attitude from seeing Ydrasse as someone he can push into the duel to backing off once she starts pushing him back is stagehand-indicative.

[Saber]

Actually yeah

VOTE: Saber

I will get absolutely no support on this but don't care

See, the problem with this vote is that I don't think unwnd truly believes in it at all.

I've CTRFed my name in his ISO, and I could not find a single reason for why he thinks I'm a stagehand outside of me pinging him or gut:

My two reads I've talked about at the hypothetical bottom are still present just not associative. Cakez is individually scummy and

I think Saber pinged the shit out of me

.

Ceph/Me/Myself (lol)

Leaves Saber/Ulyana/Dunn/Ydra/Taly/Cakez

Not going to sit here and say that those 5 should definitively contain a lot of scum, but I would bet two. If my points seem obvious it's because this is the angle I'm choosing to get myself into the game. My readrate is Ydra is laughably bad so maybe she'll see my replacement and see me as a free pocket.

I remember not liking Saber tonally?

Dunn I think I can figure out if given enough time. Cakez let me ISO him. I am also going to be playing at my full potential and just lumbering around. My passion for writing stuff that nobody will read has been stirred in me once again!

That's everything I could find.

If a contestant unwnd truly thinks I'm a stagehand and wants to kill me, he should be giving something,

anything

, to actually convince players why I'm a stagehand and to show his thought process. He's clearly putting in a lot of effort so if his aim is to actually vote out stagehands and show himself as a contestant, it doesn't line up with how much time he's actually dedicated to casing his apparent number 1 choice in myself.

I think this vote and his whole approach towards me is an attempt from him to show he isn't being survivalistic going for an easier option, and instead pushing something that's unpopular.

[Saber]

Reading Ydrasse as a contestant because most of her frustration seems to stem from the fact that she's outraged that stagehand-unwnd thought she would be an easy misexecution to push this game because she's apathetic. Her pushing back at that and righteously stating 'she won't be rolled over' and 'you picked the wrong person to pick a fight with' comes from a really contestant perspective.

scumpost imo, putting effort into something that's kind of obvious and doesn't really need to be explained

VOTE: saber

Something that's obvious to you may not be obvious to everyone else, frustration isn't always contestant-indicative.

Do you have any thoughts on what I said on unwnd?

[Saber]

this is how i feel right now

Spoiler:

ydra is town

do you know she posted that gif as scum to get a wagon off her on day 1 in team mafia


that was on my mind in how i was reading her outburst last night but while i think the, uh, passion or whatever is null the way she's going about it feels more real, in terms of the indignation at how unwnd is approaching her, and it's calling on specific things being said rather than just using emotion purely as a way of getting heat off her

Infinity, is this 'effort' in saying Ydrasse is a contestant different to mine?

[Saber]

people posting in the thread ATM please tell me your read on cakez right now

I like him for pushing unwnd, but struggle to read him otherwise since he doesn't give many reasons. Closer to PoE range than my contestant list.

[Saber]

I see what ulyana means. If we're aiming to get 2 stagehands inside the duel, we shouldn't be allowing 1 duelist to pick the other since a stagehand isn't going to pick another stagehand to include.

[Saber]

Well, that's not how I operate, Infinity. If I'm expressing a read, I'm explaining my thought process along with it. Your issue seems to be more so with my playstyle.

[Saber]

Infinity, it should be obvious why a contestant posts their thoughts about players as they catch up, obvious or not. Ydrasse was just a while ago in stagehand-range for many, so a read on her is not going to hurt.

unwnd + Infinity? Infinity taking advantage of Gamma's vote on me to start a wagon.

Infinity's flimsy reason to vote me and to go from 'unsure about Saber' to 'this is scum' seems to be taking advantage of something.

[Saber]

V/LA until the 18th

Apologies to the director of this magnificent production, but I must depart momentarily for a vacation. It's going to be cold and snowing so wish me luck.

I may check in every so often because the game is fun, but don't assume I'm caught up or have read anything.

[Saber]

Dunnstral/Toogeloo isn't the worst result in the world. I think Toogeloo is >random-contestant but at the end of the day they're doing absolutely nothing for the contestants and it's not like what they're doing is hard to fake by any means. It's hard to justify them making it to endgame basically.

Dunnstral has just been somewhat lacking and may have sliped about secret insider stagehand info in the first phase, and may also be the reason Pooky died.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Saber]

I'm not really following, do we prefer Toog to be hammered over Dunn?

Sure VOTE: Toogeloo

[Saber]

@mod: How much would I have to paraphrase a post from the Blue room?

I think Infinity is a stagehand and her interactions and read progression on Dunn is super sus, would like to post the case here without having to rewrite the whole thing.

cakez gamma emerald and unwnd burst into that PT with the energy town gets following a red flip

saber fucking faceplanted and should absolutely not be getting townread anymore, would easily be my top choice for a punt from blue room

I was on holiday and you were aware, this wasn't exactly my top priority.

[Saber]

Personally, I think Scum put the bullet in chamber 3 hoping I wouldn't Spin it right away. Putting the bullet in slot one makes Dunn look worse (I flip town here, scum knows that). Dunn has to make an excuse as to why he doesn't want to spin the Barrel hoping I don't spin the second I get it.

Why did you say you thought you were both contestants when he asked you for your read on him?

[Saber]

peta was speaking as if Saber/Gypyx and to an extent Ydrasse were his bottom reads in our room, but he wasn't attached to 1 of us being a stagehand over another, so I dislike that 'faceplanting' post a lot, especially since I had made clear I was on holiday in the PT, yet still checked in and gave my thoughts every once in a while. I'm not sure what the stagehand motivation is there though, since coming into this peta knows I vastly prefer to vote Infinity given I was pushing her from the start in the PT. Stagehand-him probably doesn't try to antagonise me knowing that I would think.

He also efforted a lot in the PT, and after seeing he was nominated I had a copper wrap thought that he'd upped the ante in anticipation of this, and that he knew he has to start looking more contestanty in advance to the members of his group (based on how the voting works), but it seems it wasn't very clear who was getting nominated in the other room given majority was 2 votes. And the effort and solving itself didn't ping me, it seemed natural enough.

[Saber]

Oh yeah, I've placated on my unwnd/gooey read because of interactions and progressions on Dunn. There was one particular progression early on when unwnd replaced in that I would be suprised by if it was Stagehand-Stagehand.

[Saber]

Kill on sight. should absolutely not survive another phase. Just completely flatlined in the PT for no identifiable reason and at this point posting has been limited in focus and mostly geared toward pushing whatever the popular target was, looked reasonable to a point,

Oh God, and then I see this. This is absolutely not reasonable when you

know

my lack of activity has nothing to do with my alignment.

[Saber]

Maybe I can dream and both Infinity/Peta are stagehands as unlikely as that is.

[Saber]

VOTE: petapan

I don't even care, forget about everything else. I'm voting you.

[Saber]

I cannot understand how that is ever in good faith. I am on VACATION, I have very limited time, and was even having to skim our PT, I comment on whatever catches my interest, and I go out of my way to still out in effort.

I am beyond irritated right now, and wanna believe you're acting in terribly bad faith rather than being genuine with that.

[Saber]

Stop using oog circumstances to justify suspicions then? It sucks and isn't fun.

[Saber]

You're incredibly unpleasant.