Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Ausuka]

but a group of inspectors is not having it. having an obsession with silly things like sanitary violations and humane working conditions, they attempted to get their way in court; but after that had failed, they took the matters into their own hands, vowing to either take the company down from the inside, or get fired trying.

I think mafia might be the good guys in this setup?

[Ausuka]

bc this game doesn't have a postcap and larges can sometimes get kinda miserable without one, if d1 starts to get close to like idk 80-100 pages i suggest we simply yeet someone

who wants to join me on this mission

we need 10 more to sign the pact

VOTE: ausuka

I think you trying to yeet me for this is extremely rude and also extremely fair

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Ausuka

VOTE: Ircher

Scum.

bc this game doesn't have a postcap and larges can sometimes get kinda miserable without one, if d1 starts to get close to like idk 80-100 pages i suggest we simply yeet someone

who wants to join me on this mission

we need 10 more to sign the pact

VOTE: ausuka

Probably a scum try hard, which on D1 is a treat-as-town.

I see the theme here and completely agree

Mastina locktown

[Ausuka]

ydrasse vote ausuka with me

Why sobs

[Ausuka]

Yeah sorry guys I'm going to be inactive for a bit, me and a few friends are going to this cafe in Croatia to infiltrate a café from the inside and force it to shut down. Crazy stuff am I right

[Ausuka]

What do you mean? You're already in

[Ausuka]

Wtf I'm not a Baka

[Ausuka]

vote count 1.00

with 21 votes in play, it takes 11 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-09-29 01:45:00).

firing

not voting [21]:

petapan, Ausuka, Malakittens, Nero Cain, PenguinPower, Lukewarm, furtiveglance, Roden, Titus, Uncrowned, Vivax, Andresvmb, mastina, jjh927, Ircher, RCEnigma, BlueBloodedToffee, Klick, Something_Smart, Ydrasse, fireisredsir

mod notes

~ Uncrowned and Andresvmb have (expired on 2022-09-16 20:30:00) to confirm their role pm before i start looking for replacements.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

flavour

now playing...
♫

Toše Proeski - Ledena

♫
▶ ❚❚ ──────────────────────────────  0:00 / 4:46

I just read this flavour and realised it was meant for me

Thank you, Datisi

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Ircher

Baa

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Ircher

Baa

Sus, could be....a bus

the wheels on the bus go

[Ausuka]

I assumed it would be 16:5 and would definitely like to hear why Ircher made the assumption it's 4 without justifying it - I don't think input from others will be all that helpful.

[Ausuka]

why did you assume it was 16:5?

i didn't assume anything.

my mind jumped to 16:5 because

that's the standard ratio? lol

what answer were you expecting

[Ausuka]

how is expecting 5 scum in 21 players unreasonable

[Ausuka]

the standard ratios are
7:2, 10:3, 13:4, 16:5

for every 3 town you add 1 scum

i don't think i'm hallicunating this? it's a normal thing?

even if you think that the setup could justify a different assumption i'm not sure what you are getting at here with pushing me on 16:5. it does not feel genuine.

[Ausuka]

do you think me saying 16:5 is normal is alignment indicative? lol

[Ausuka]

do you think me saying 16:5 is normal is alignment indicative? lol

no, but i thought it was interesting you were calling out ircher for assuming a ratio without explanation when you were doing the same

um, I was discussing the faction ratio because it was the topic in the game thread, and stated i thought 16:5 was likely. Ircher used 17:4 without explaining why in a calculation without talking about it. This is not the same situation.

i agree with S_S the mechanic isn't really pro scum at all.

[Ausuka]

and i'm not dumbtelling thanks. do i really have to sift my ass through completed large games to prove that games of this size will generally have 5 scum i swear to god

[Ausuka]

viewtopic.php?p=13278073

I don't know why you're talking to me in the way you are - I don't think I said anything bad to you? There aren't a load of games in this size, but here's a 19 player game with 5 scum if that helps

[Ausuka]

I also think 4 scum is possible - I think Ircher using it in a calculation without even talking about it is possibly a sign of TMI, which wouldn't be the case if we had 5 scum. People seem to be thinking I'm either scum or stupid for saying I initially thought there would be 5 scum and I am trying to explain that I believe it to be standard.

[Ausuka]

viewtopic.php?p=13278073

I don't know why you're talking to me in the way you are - I don't think I said anything bad to you? There aren't a load of games in this size, but here's a 19 player game with 5 scum if that helps

that's the standard ratio? lol

what answer were you expecting

mostly because of this. lol.

oh and here's a 20p game with 4: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89500

and a 19p

datisi

game with 4: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89120

and a 21p game with 4 (+ 3rd party): viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88500

i'm sorry if you felt insulted by me saying that

anyway, 19p and 20p are different from 21p because town has less miselims, and a serial killer changes the faction ratio. i think my point about ircher makes sense.

[Ausuka]

bad vibes:

vivax
ausuka
titus

(latter two stronger than the former where i may not have a grasp of playstyle)

I am playing differently from my normal playstyle in this game and that is intentional

[Ausuka]

221 doesn't make a lot of sense, but I don't think it's scummy. I like that Titus calls some posts town straight up, it's town indicative I think.

I disagree! I uncontroversially think furtive is town this game though

[Ausuka]

For weird flails and misjudging vibes and cause by now Ircher seems too obvious to be scum.

Why do you think titus/me/you isn't a real scumread list people can have

I believe it, honestly

Peta is maybe town but also slippery so going to stay paranoid there

[Ausuka]

isn't bad vibes just scumreads

[Ausuka]

Ausuka: Seems very different to Mini Normal 2279 in which they were my first townread and pretty much a UTR from the get go. Could be due to RVS wagon, larger game or anything else but notable.

I mean when Datisi bullied me into signing up for this game I agreed on the condition that I would RNG my reads so if anything I'd say I'm outperforming expectations here

(I am going to be playing intensely more relaxed in this game due to a combination of being busier and the size of this game I'm afraid! Although I'm also curious to see the advantages and disadvantages that come with not being mostly townread by people as well)

[Ausuka]

Oh I'm sure the disadvantages will outweigh the advantages but maybe people will be easier to read this way?? Who knows!

[Ausuka]

Oh I'm sure the disadvantages will outweigh the advantages but maybe people will be easier to read this way?? Who knows!

Do you have anything so far, or just chilling being disadvantaged?

I still think Ircher is a wolf if that helps!

I want to be cautious with Vivax because he seems like the sort of person who's naturally scummy but I don't really like the way he pivots away from Ircher for being too scummy to be scum and then returns because apparently he'd be hammered if he's town??? Especially with Ircher voting Vivax, I feel like if Ircher is scum Vivax is a good place to start d2

[Ausuka]

(To be clear I am not in a 100% caught up state and there are a lot of people I don't really have reads on but I can always RNG a readslist if people want that!)

[Ausuka]

the last time i pumped the brakes on an early day 1 ircher wagon he was scum who escaped to get a night action


and his posts when he came back were kind of bad tbh

I vibe with this? I don't know how to articulate it but regardless of Vivax's alignment the push by Ircher just felt Bad

[Ausuka]

PenguinPower
furtiveglance
Malakittens
Vivax
Andresvmb
fireisredsir

petapan
Uncrowned
mastina
Roden

Lukewarm
Titus
Ydrasse
Ausuka
Nero Cain
BlueBloodedToffee
jjh927

RCEnigma
Ircher
Something_Smart

Ok so I've seen a few Klick games

Most of them were town and he came across as active, capable, confident, all that stuff. There was one where I modded and he seemed, like, fairly distinctively different from that? He didn't just zeropost, but he came across as like, significantly less engaged I think and ended up getting eliminated not long after replacing in.

For people who know him better than I do, is this a consistent pattern, because if so he is probably town this game

My read on Mala is similar in that I don't really know either of them that well but I feel like mala's towngame also looks more like this??

[Ausuka]

I feel like even if ircher is wolf this wagon is bad news bears

feels super easy to jump on and push because everyone want to be smart if town and catch the slip and wolf can jump on momentum without having to do much and get credit

need make sure everyone explicitly say why they vote ircher if not just for slip than for which of posts (should be easy since few)

I feel like this is an overly cynical way of looking at the wagon

I wouldn't really call it a slip but more potentially TMI? Regardless I'd say Ircher has been pretty scummy outside of that and like

I mean yes he's easy to vote because of that but I still don't think it's unreasonable to do so

[Ausuka]

Here's a tentative readslist, very gut-heavy. Feel free to ask for expounding on what you disagree with.

Town: Ydrasse, Andres, Nero, Roden, Uncrowned, Furtive

Lean T: Peta, Fire, Ausuka

Null: BBT, JJH, Titus, S_S, Mala

Lean/possible S: Mastina, Penguin, RCEnigma, Luke, Ircher, Klick

Am interested to hear why you were townleaning me at this point?

[Ausuka]

Here's a tentative readslist, very gut-heavy. Feel free to ask for expounding on what you disagree with.

Town: Ydrasse, Andres, Nero, Roden, Uncrowned, Furtive

Lean T: Peta, Fire, Ausuka

Null: BBT, JJH, Titus, S_S, Mala

Lean/possible S: Mastina, Penguin, RCEnigma, Luke, Ircher, Klick

Am interested to hear why you were townleaning me at this point?

Me too

what does this mean

(would also like to hear about jjh's read on me, although i'm guessing it will just be 'gut')

[Ausuka]

is mastina town then?

[Ausuka]

Hi Ircher why am i town

I think the role is negative utility and doesn't really factor into my read either way

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Titus

[Ausuka]

I read some stuff. I think scum bussed ircher and I think titus vote looks like a bus

that being said her refrain of "it's not a slip but ircher is frozen obvscum!!" gets really weird if ircher is scum, imo

I agree with this

[Ausuka]

why is titus vote bad

[Ausuka]

vote count 1.01

with 21 votes in play, it takes 11 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-09-29 01:45:00).

firing

Ausuka [5]:

Ircher, fireisredsir, Uncrowned, Ydrasse, BlueBloodedToffee

Ydrasse [4]:

Roden, Andresvmb, jjh927, RCEnigma

Ircher [3]:

mastina, petapan, Lukewarm

mastina [3]:

Nero Cain, Malakittens, Klick

Lukewarm [1]:

Vivax

Something_Smart [1]:

PenguinPower

not voting [4]:

Ausuka, furtiveglance, Titus, Something_Smart

mod notes

~ everyone has confirmed!
~ i am using a vote counter, let me know if there are any mistakes.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

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now playing...
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Toše Proeski - Ledena

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▶ ❚❚ ───────────────●──────────────  2:30 / 4:46

I like Ydrasse as town based on how things have progressed so far. Not really seeing the ausuka wagon. Not feeling mastina, even if I disagree on strategy.

VOTE: Ircher

i mean now we play the game

what's more likely

mr. ircher just guessed the ratio or he's a very informed doggo

Why suppose he's right?

Dude's not town but I hate slip arguments

Specifically I'd like titus to elaborate on why she thought Ircher is scum without buying into the TMI argument - she votes him without really pushing there and then says 'dude's not town'

Her progression around ircher and linking him with SS just feels sort of awkward, imo

[Ausuka]

Willing to bet bbt was a vig tbh

Although I'm not sure if it actually matters that much

[Ausuka]

hi uh I would like to as a PSA reminder that using full productivity is an useful night action and something every PR should consider especially if they kinda suck thanks

[Ausuka]

Scum certainly did bus Ircher, but don't make the surface-level conclusion that all scum did.

I mean I didn't say that

[Ausuka]

Datisi would never package me into a box we're bffs

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Roden

I think this is also a good wagon and would like to see a full claim here

[Ausuka]

Why did you decide to use this role?

[Ausuka]

3

[Ausuka]

ok yeah you have to be scum

[Ausuka]

public announcer

welcome,

Ircher

! you are a

public announcer

, aligned with

the inspectors

!

it turned out that the experience from your previous "career" of running your own vlog is actually coming in handy.

factional abilities:

you are a member of the inspectors, along with

|

[REDACTED]

|

. you may talk with your living teammates in the inspectors private topic, located

|

[REDACTED]

|

. you may talk there at any time as long as you are alive. once every night, a living member of the inspectors may submit a factional action of attempting to get a player fired.

night abilities:

public service announcement

- during the night, use this ability. assuming no interference with your action, the mod will publicly post an anonymous message (of your choosing) at daystart.

win condition:

you win once all threats to

the inspectors

have been fired, or nothing can prevent this from occurring, and at least one member of

the inspectors

is still in the game.

the main thread is here. please confirm by replying to this pm with your role name, or by posting in your pt.

Roden is talking as if his role PM looks something like this

If it did, I mean, why not use your ability?

[Ausuka]

Yeah nvm I thought he used the modifier because he said he wanted to ask peta how to use the role but he said he didn't earlier

[Ausuka]

I mean honestly I still think that role should never be used because mailman is basically useless imo and if there are multiple such roles which have low percentages they can give scum a nightkill without doing much, if anything, for town

That said I guess I could see someone not agreeing

pedit: What I was getting at is it's easier to ignore the percentages when it's not in your role PM and your first response to me was just like "why would anyone ever not use a role" which I was kind of baffled by

That said now I remember you said you used the 5% version the point isn't as important

[Ausuka]

Roden is talking as if his role PM looks something like this

If it did, I mean, why not use your ability?

I have seen several people ask why he would use his ability if he is town, but it feels you are skipping past how little productivity he claimed that it needed.

ngl, if I had a PR that only needed 5% I'm not really sure that I would not have ended up using it even if its bad, on the basis of "well its just 5%." With 17 townies alive, that is as a shift of the town average by -0.29% -- which does feel kinda irrelevant.

Like it only affects the scum kill count if the town is exactly inside the 75.00%-75.29% | 50.00%-50.29% | 25.00% - 25.29% before considering him.

5% would actually be irrelevant in 99.13% of all possible town productivity levels.

I guess it doesn't matter that much but I just fundamentally disagree with this line of thinking. Sure you might not individually make much difference but cumulatively people thinking this way can absolutely give mafia free kills

[Ausuka]

I am hoping she has an extremely good reason for doing so

[Ausuka]

I am hoping she has an extremely good reason for doing so

Scum response

Lol

[Ausuka]

I guess it doesn't matter that much but I just fundamentally disagree with this line of thinking. Sure you might not individually make much difference but cumulatively people thinking this way can absolutely give mafia free kills

I understand your point. Running that role at 100% productivity is probably optimal.

But I also don't think that it is unreasonable for him to have come to the conclusion that his own 5% didn't matter because it was so low.

Yeah I mean I'm just voting him because I think he's been scummy now which is also the reason I did it in the first place so

[Ausuka]

I am hoping she has an extremely good reason for doing so

Scum response

Lol

-5% is scummy

-100% earns a shrug

That's not a townie thought process

After I realised you used the 5% version I haven't called it scummy once

[Ausuka]

I mean I haven't been that talkative in general, I do think your d1 was scummy and that was the main reason I voted

[Ausuka]

I am hoping she has an extremely good reason for doing so

Scum response

Lol

-5% is scummy

-100% earns a shrug

That's not a townie thought process

After I realised you used the 5% version I haven't called it scummy once

I don't understand why you're arguing the logistics of using a 5% ability then.

1) it felt like people were pressing me on it and I wanted to respond
2) a very small chance of this denying mafia a kill is better than zero chance i guess!

I mean I haven't been that talkative in general, I do think your d1 was scummy and that was the main reason I voted

The reason you gave for voting me was that you wanted a full claim. You didn't mention anything about your read on me or what you found scummy.

that wasn't a reason, i said i wanted a full claim because mastina and jjh were saying your claim was like possibly mechanically scum or something along those lines

the reason I voted you was because I saw that you were a wagon, I read your ISO and saw that you just kind of like, didn't acknowledge the Ircher wagon really? and didn't like your vibes in general so decided to add my vote to it

[Ausuka]

I've felt since early on this game that Ausuka has upped the meme/openwolf/casual posting style compared to Mini Normal 2279, and 534 just feels like a get-out clause. Yeah they said busy IRL but the post count isn't the difference (or not what I'm noticing anyway). 1012 bringing Petapan's voice to the fore could possibly explain that kill i.e. framekill Titus. 1033 is prescient but possible to speculate as town. 1281 et al struck me as LAMIST recently, and I do think Roden correctly finds Ausuka guilty of inconsistency regarding him and Mastina. Scumlean

I mean if you don't believe I am more busy after starting university compared to before that, idk what to tell you - postcount doesn't equate to time spent on the game, there's a correlation but of course making short and less comprehensive posts is going to be easier

I think acknowledging dead town is often a good idea

Mastina is unclaimed and I don't know what she's trying to use the productivity points for is the big difference there, how am I supposed to comment without knowing basically *anything* about the situation

[Ausuka]

I feel like some people have been scumreading Mala which like

I feel like I remember her being like a polarised player and I was under the impression this was her town meta? Is this not the case

[Ausuka]

one issue i do have with luke ig is i don't understand the ausuka townread, i don't think the roden interaction is remotely clearing and besides that i don't think she's been very towny yet. the lampshading of "yes im playing differently, it's on purpose!" felt kinda off to me

I mean, this was in response to peta talking about my meta, can you elaborate on what exactly about it you find odd

[Ausuka]

vote count 2.03

with 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-04 01:00:00).

firing

Roden [5]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Malakittens

Something_Smart [5]:

furtiveglance, PenguinPower, Titus, Uncrowned, Vivax

Titus [3]:

Roden, fireisredsir, Lukewarm

Vivax [1]:

Ydrasse

not voting [3]:

jjh927, RCEnigma, Something_Smart

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

flavour

flavour

now playing...
♫

Bijelo Dugme - Ne spavaj mala moja muzika dok svira

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▶ ❚❚ ─────────────────────●─────────  1:46 / 2:30

vote count 1.01

with 21 votes in play, it takes 11 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-09-29 01:45:00).

firing

Ausuka [5]:

Ircher, fireisredsir, Uncrowned, Ydrasse, BlueBloodedToffee

Ydrasse [4]:

Roden, Andresvmb, jjh927, RCEnigma

Ircher [3]:

mastina, petapan, Lukewarm

mastina [3]:

Nero Cain, Malakittens, Klick

Lukewarm [1]:

Vivax

Something_Smart [1]:

PenguinPower

not voting [4]:

Ausuka, furtiveglance, Titus, Something_Smart

mod notes

~ everyone has confirmed!
~ i am using a vote counter, let me know if there are any mistakes.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

flavour

now playing...
♫

Toše Proeski - Ledena

♫
▶ ❚❚ ───────────────●──────────────  2:30 / 4:46

I like Ydrasse as town based on how things have progressed so far. Not really seeing the ausuka wagon. Not feeling mastina, even if I disagree on strategy.

VOTE: Ircher

i mean now we play the game

what's more likely

mr. ircher just guessed the ratio or he's a very informed doggo

Why suppose he's right?

Dude's not town but I hate slip arguments

Specifically I'd like titus to elaborate on why she thought Ircher is scum without buying into the TMI argument - she votes him without really pushing there and then says 'dude's not town'

Her progression around ircher and linking him with SS just feels sort of awkward, imo

@Titus sorry if I missed it but I'd like you to explain your Ircher read before the whole frozen thing?

[Ausuka]

Um, I don't recall ever saying it's strategic at all, I said I signed up knowing that I wasn't going to wallpost or hyperpost this game, which is different to the recent meta people like peta have had on me during the summer holidays

And I mean furtive did explicitly say that he didn't believe that it was because of my IRL so I really do not have any idea what you're talking about

[Ausuka]

Like in what way does being busier not play into a casual playing style

That idea just doesn't make sense

[Ausuka]

@Titus sorry if I missed it but I'd like you to explain your Ircher read before the whole frozen thing?

Was weak based on VCA. I voted because I TRed the other two wagons and wanted to test a theory that scum were protecting Ircher.

I mean, this is fine and makes sense, but there seems to be a fairly lengthy gap between your original response to the argument in which you were like "dude's not town" and making the point about him being frozen? And I'm wondering why you were confident enough to say Ircher wasn't town at that time.

Also ugh I have been playing the game. There is a middle ground between the standard I'm being held to, which is lengthy analysis like the mini normal, and outright refusing to play. I'm busier, so I'm not going to play in the exact same way. That's all it is.

[Ausuka]

534 uses the word "intentional". which means you had intent. going from that to "im busier and the game is bigger" doesn't feel consistent at all to me

I mean it is intentional. I am intentionally not putting as much time into mafia to fit my schedule better

[Ausuka]

534 uses the word "intentional". which means you had intent. going from that to "im busier and the game is bigger" doesn't feel consistent at all to me

I mean it is intentional. I am intentionally not putting as much time into mafia to fit my schedule better

mmm i dunno i just don't really buy that you phrase it that way if that's what you mean

like why be coy about it

Are you suggesting that as mafia I had a plan to claim I am strategically playing worse but then went back on it? I'm sure I'm misrepresenting it somehow but that seems like what you're suggesting here

[Ausuka]

I mean you linked to posts from day 1 which you claimed showed that I was walking it back so that doesn't seem like what you actually believe?

[Ausuka]

I mean you linked to posts from day 1 which you claimed showed that I was walking it back so that doesn't seem like what you actually believe?

providing additional reasons for why you would be playing differently, while it did draw my attention to you seeming to not have a consistent mindset, is v different than walking the original statement back completely and saying that you were in no way intending to imply that you were playing differently for strategic reasons

and im p sure if you had done that d1 then peta would have jumped on you for it

except I never said that and obviously saying that I'm busier is basically the same thing as what I'm saying now so ???

It really feels like you're making this up. I understand why someone would be suspicious of me in a vacuum but this argument feels like you started at the premise "ausuka is scum" and then made up reasoning to reach that viewpoint. Like, why would I use different strategies for targeting peta - someone I have never even played with outside marathon games - than anyone else???

[Ausuka]

I think 1505 is a fantastic post and puts what I was trying to say earlier much more eloquently

[Ausuka]

I’ll explain why - the productivity mechanic, it hints pretty heavily that mastina has to be Town. You know the cost of using your ability, and if you assume that the flipped PRs all maxed out their use of productivity points so that they could use their abilities once, making some assumptions as to how many PRs there are in the game, you can almost get to a point where you can figure out whether mastina used up productivity points as they described or not. And you know the Town used enough where the Scum were granted an extra kill. I think you almost have to assume mastina did use a significant amount of productivity points to make the math work no? That’s what I started to realize. I don’t know if anybody has brought this up already I’m not caught up, but I’m beginning to think it’s probably difficult to make the math work unless you assume mastina did as they indicated (ergo, Town).

I mean I kind of agree with this?

Like it's obviously not an exact science, we don't know what dead people have done with their actions, etc. At the same time I feel like pre-announcig is a pretty big risk for scum mastina to make.

Also in the last game I played with her I'm pretty sure she decided I was scum on d1 and carried it through to elo, and I don't think her reads list really changed in that game either, so like I don't think her play in this game is scum indicative

[Ausuka]

Also I'm not a flake smh you guys

[Ausuka]

That being said I have considered that I am probably putting in a lot more effort to defending myself in this game than I intended and I will try to do that less going forward

[Ausuka]

i'm literally the guy that was questioning S_S for seeming to be ok with that

i think the people who are saying "let's just wait" are >rand scum because in what world would a town player be ok with being led around by a potential scum player for days on end., especially if they've had no read progression outside of townbinning her for her first post of the game

hence why i would lean luke being town atm bc i think the read of scum!mastina goes against the grain of this game

I mean are we necessarily being led around by her? I don't really get the angle you're pushing

I still think Roden not really talking about the Ircher wagon at all when it was (imo) the primary discussion point is strongly scummy. I'm still thinking over what his play today indicates, I'm aware I did make a mistake at first in his role and that at least partially explains the push on me, but at the same time people said scum Roden is often Angry so like... idk

I would have preferred if Lukewarm did not out the tell because Roden now claims to know what it was (I think) and there isn't any way to disprove that

I would ask Roden why he didn't just say the tell to take the wind out of its sails, but I feel like the response will be that he's not going to respond unless I say that I'll locktown him if I get the right answer, or something

[Ausuka]

It really feels like you're making this up. I understand why someone would be suspicious of me in a vacuum but this argument feels like you started at the premise "ausuka is scum" and then made up reasoning to reach that viewpoint.

You are correct; fire did this for you.

You know who else has done that?

Lukewarm with his Titus/mastina cases.

Both are scum!

I mean, I *agree* with the Lukewarm case. You can look back and see me saying the same things, I'm pretty sure - and peta also thought this! I don't think this really applies to luke here.

[Ausuka]

I struggle to believe that town!Mastina actually has this level of certainty on her Ircher read without that, and I think it makes much more sense that this is a patent pending, Mastina designed, scum/scum partner interaction.

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

She maintains this stance *throughout the entire game*. Like, her reasoning changes and evolves, but the reads are incredibly static, right from the RVS phase.

And she was town in this game!

I think the obvious answer here is - mastina thinks Ircher's page 1 is obviously scum because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher? And while I wouldn't make a bet, I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Titus

I like this wagon, and have explained why I'm sus of her

I don't really agree with the idea (mostly proposed by Titus I think to be fair) that scum wouldn't bus Ircher here - it seems like Ircher was mostly going antispew from the start and probably TMId that only four scum exist in this game. There's no point in trying to save a buddy if they don't want to be saved and the situation looks bad for them - a scum flip d1 with no associatives tends not to be the worst thing in the world for a maf team and I think most teams are bus happy - like, I fully believe that Titus is not fond of bussing compared to the average player, but in this situation where Ircher is dead in the water, maybe even wants to be bussed, and the rest of the team probably wants to bus him - would anyone not be willing to bus in that situation, regardless of their meta?

[Ausuka]

If we are using self meta logic though Ircher and I were friends back in the day and rolling scum with him would've been awesome so I never would have bussed him this game

You guys should clear me too

[Ausuka]

I don't think I'm tilted! I'm not really emotionally invested in this game. I was trying to be funny, sorry if that failed

[Ausuka]

common datisi L

[Ausuka]

vote count 1.01

with 21 votes in play, it takes 11 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-09-29 01:45:00).

firing

Ausuka [5]:

Ircher, fireisredsir, Uncrowned, Ydrasse, BlueBloodedToffee

Ydrasse [4]:

Roden, Andresvmb, jjh927, RCEnigma

Ircher [3]:

mastina, petapan, Lukewarm

mastina [3]:

Nero Cain, Malakittens, Klick

Lukewarm [1]:

Vivax

Something_Smart [1]:

PenguinPower

not voting [4]:

Ausuka, furtiveglance, Titus, Something_Smart

mod notes

~ everyone has confirmed!
~ i am using a vote counter, let me know if there are any mistakes.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

flavour

now playing...
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Toše Proeski - Ledena

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▶ ❚❚ ───────────────●──────────────  2:30 / 4:46

I like Ydrasse as town based on how things have progressed so far. Not really seeing the ausuka wagon. Not feeling mastina, even if I disagree on strategy.

VOTE: Ircher

i mean now we play the game

what's more likely

mr. ircher just guessed the ratio or he's a very informed doggo

Why suppose he's right?

Dude's not town but I hate slip arguments

Specifically I'd like titus to elaborate on why she thought Ircher is scum without buying into the TMI argument - she votes him without really pushing there and then says 'dude's not town'

Her progression around ircher and linking him with SS just feels sort of awkward, imo

because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher?

Ausuka you're lucky that the me(facet) who is fronting right now is not

actually

mastina(the facet) because she is furious and wants to scream at you for this.

I'll keep it fairly polite and say:

DON'T

make this accusation.

I never decide reads in advance. (I need to hit submit on this post before mastina actually does start fronting because she has a lot to say about that shit.)

Yeah, that's very bad wording, sorry

I think most of what I said was somewhat accurate but that line implies something I did not want to imply

[Ausuka]

It seems likely that the scum team, seeing Vivax making it very clear that he intends to shoot me, is just gonna sit by and let that happen. It keeps Vivax's vig shot from being a danger to them.

So, I think that makes Fire and Andres very likely to be town for their recent posts made directly to vivax, about me.

This logic confuses me a bit - usually I see different scum members take different positions in the thread, and defend town pretty often, even if it isn't directly in their interest to do so. So like I do not see why you think defending you from a vig shot makes these people town and it feels maybe pockety?

[Ausuka]

i am one bad game away from policy votelocking anyone who fakeclaims

[Ausuka]

It seems likely that the scum team, seeing Vivax making it very clear that he intends to shoot me, is just gonna sit by and let that happen. It keeps Vivax's vig shot from being a danger to them.

So, I think that makes Fire and Andres very likely to be town for their recent posts made directly to vivax, about me.

This logic confuses me a bit - usually I see different scum members take different positions in the thread, and defend town pretty often, even if it isn't directly in their interest to do so. So like I do not see why you think defending you from a vig shot makes these people town and it feels maybe pockety?

I would agree wrt to day play and votes. Scum team has a fairly large imput in wagons.

But less so with a Vig.

I would not be surprised to find scum in the people who have called me town. But it was calling me town, directly at the vig, with reasons. Appearing to actively be trying to sway the Vig off of shooting a townie, and then he becomes a potential thread to the scum team again

Hmm, I mean, it's possible that I'm onto literally nothing here. I think it'd help if you tell me how you think scum in general tend to think about the game and their partners in particular? It doesn't have to be too long.

[Ausuka]

ausuka why didn't you comment more on the last few pages

I'd love to but you guys just aren't that interesting unfortunately!

[Ausuka]

(I will have more to say eventually but I'm not in catch-up mode right now, what Luke said caught my eye so I wanted to comment)

If it helps I think anything to do with drunk posting being town tends to be bogus

[Ausuka]

Uncrowned what do you think of the idea scum might be bussing Roden

I agree with furtive that the idea of resistance is... Meh to me but I think Andres feels kinda town

[Ausuka]

I didn't think you were suspecting Andres, I'm just saying I also disagree but townlean Andres despite that

I agree with your perspective broadly but am asking uncrowned for Reasons

[Ausuka]

I agree with Klick's townreads except for fire and Titus

Mala I think has a meta where this is in her townrange but interested in feedback from people who know her better

She does have good vibes anyway, sorry furtive

[Ausuka]

Hmm, I mean, it's possible that I'm onto literally nothing here. I think it'd help if you tell me how you think scum in general tend to think about the game and their partners in particular? It doesn't have to be too long.

I am not 100% sure what you are asking, because "how scum think about the game" Is not something that you can really answer with an answer that is not too long. When I am scum, my thoughts on the game state are constantly shifting, so hard to define. I don't think how scum act "in general" is super useful metric, because individual situations call for individual responses - Also shifts away from how different people play scum. For example, I don't think I have the guts to put all 3 of my scum partners right in a row in the bottom of my scum reads (or town reads for that matter), but I have seen multiple other people do exactly that (Mastina and Not Known 15 off the top of my head)

Spoiler: Most basic goals being

Blending in. A Large portion of your energy goes to just, looking like you would look if you were town.

Identifying threats - those are the night kill targets.

Identifying the Mislim pool - hoping they get eliminated with out you looking like scum on their flip. So your arguments have to be reasonable, and you probably want to be the 2nd or 3rd loudest voice calling for their head, not the first person people think of when the flip comes back town.

Making yourself look not partnered with your partners, and to look partnered with townies.

----

You asked for partners in particular, and like I said the end goal is to not looked partnered and purposefully treating each partner differently such that on one flip, it does not make the other obvious.

Planting your selves loudly on opposite ends of arguments is decent for this. In my last scum game, I was one of the loudest voices in favor of mass claim, and my partner was one of the loudest voices against mass claim. The idea being to look like they were a part of a scum team afraid of being outed in a mass claim, and I was a part of a scum team that thought they needed the PRs outed. So if one of us flipped, the other would appear to not make sense in the same scum team.

----

All of that is unrelated to my point. Because I am talking about how scum would interact with a Town vig tunneled on a Townie. Like that is the dream scenario for scum wrt to a vig. I don't think that scum go out of their way to mess that up.

(I am aware that this appears to have already happened, but in reference to when the posts were made) The moment the vig comes out of that tunnel is the moment he becomes a threat to the scum team again.

Hmm, I get where you're coming from in the abstract, and I agree it's good to craft reads individually. In practise I feel like it's probably incredibly difficult to have a mental profile for every player in a game like this, though.

My personal impression is that scum are very often hesitant to townread their partners and to scumread townies, and that even if it's not optimal or strategic to do so, or it risks a member of the scumteam dying, usually you will see at least one mafia defend a townie under pressure. That's why I'm kind of baffled by the viewpoint you gave. Like, planting yourself on opposite sides of arguments is -exactly- the kind of thing I'm talking about; I think the assumption that the people defending you are very probably town is ??? in that context. Even though it -could- lead to a member of a scumteam dying, I don't understand the viewpoint that mafia wouldn't defend a town in that way.

[Ausuka]

Given the context of his earlier posts, in what world does scum!Roden think that this answer is going to do anything but hurt him? Like this is an actively self sabotaging answer when scum can give any answer they want

Wifom. Fake posts are posted.

Given the context of his earlier posts, in what world does scum!Roden think that this answer is going to do anything but hurt him? Like this is an actively self sabotaging answer when scum can give any answer they want

Wifom. Fake posts are posted.

Just shouting wifom is a cop out. Scum can do literally anything, the point is which is more likely.

I just don't think it is very likely at all, that given the situation that he was in, he would take that avenue as scum. And therefore, it being the truth is the more likely reality we live in.

You don't think it's likely at all, because that fits your worldview.

Scum players and scum teams can and do have widely varying reactions. Maybe it's dead in water, maybe it's as little info as possible, maybe the amount wouldn't make sense, maybe the whole role is a fiction, maybe he's scum truth telling

Maybe Roden is town lying
Maybe he's telling the truth and is town

Whatever he said serves his purposes. As far as I know, there's no mech for any of it.

Arguing why that claim in particular supposes things that can't be known (if town).

I feel like this is a pretty scummy series of post on its own btw.

It take no stances, and makes no arguments. She just popped in to stir paranoia on any presented reason to town read Roden, without actually engaging with the reasons or talking about the reasons she believes him to be scum.

Like, it is just "oooohhhhh wifom scary" and "all things are unknowable"

She is not talking about Roden, she is talking in generalities, with the final conclusion being: so you can't make town reads.

fwiw I agree with this

[Ausuka]

It's not a dance and it doesn't need to be a question

[Ausuka]

Uncrowned what do you think of the idea scum might be bussing Roden

not impossible but unlikely, i would say

Yeah idk, I asked you specifically because like, I felt a bit put off by the way you separated your suspects into 'if roden is town' and 'if roden is scum' - I feel that associatives can be foggy and unclear (though by no means useless) so the fact that you seemed to have such -clarity- that if Roden is scum you should look offwagon and if Roden is town you should look at early wagon entrants, felt a bit off to me. Unless I missed it I'd like you to explain that a bit more.

I think you are correct in your arguments against Roden but am not convinced he is scum instead of wrong?

In general I am a sucker for ate but idk I don't currently get the vibes Roden is about to flip red, shrug

Titus wagon feels better to me

[Ausuka]

It's not a dance and it doesn't need to be a question

Without a question, it's straight up shade.

I don't think it counts as shade if I'm voting for you

[Ausuka]

I don't think voting mastina is that protein

[Ausuka]

i mean i think it'd be nice for fire to elaborate on those thoughts a bit

[Ausuka]

I feel like the influence scum has on the gamestate is probably not that high and I think a lot of the time scum don't use their votes in a co-ordinated way?

I don't think I've noticed anything that unusual or noteworthy about the votes - I'm not exactly convinced Roden is scum, but if he was I don't think there would be movement to save him. Similarly, I wouldn't expect scum to fight too hard to save Titus or prop up a counterwagon - I think scum are often cautious to act in a way that associates them with their partners and I don't think either slot endgames here most of the time.

[Ausuka]

Mastina I have this sinking gut feeling that you are town and that scum is currently playing around you specifically and pocketing you

I would love a good faith effort to sort me but that feels like not the direction you’re headed in

This comes across as an extremely specific feeling to have. I know gut is gut but is there any way you can elaborate?

[Ausuka]

I hope I count as playing the game!

But if you really want to hammer you can do it, I highly doubt either me or Dannflor will be killed at night.

[Ausuka]

as usual, feedback on any aspect of my modding is highly encouraged!

you smell. hope this helps

[Ausuka]

gg thanks remaining town although I still feel like flavour wise we should've just let the mafia win