Datisi's Café [game over!]

Dannflor · Post Post #1890 (isolation #0) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:27 am

I'm busy for a couple hours yet at work but I'll try to catch up over the afternoon

Dannflor · Post Post #1951 (isolation #1) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:08 pm

Okay, so I think Ircher like... kinda knew he was gonna die as soon as he came back to the thread for the first time.

When he first comes back after his initial 3 posts in 451, it feels like he's already on anti-spew mode. He picks one (presumably) townie to tunnel and then elaborates on no other reads. He limits his interactions with other slots and in general just feels incredibly interested in not giving out a lot of information. I think this makes sense that with 9 votes on him that while he's hoping to dissolve the pressure, he also probably doesn't feel too confident in doing that and wants to minimize the amount of information he gives out.

That makes me think that Ircher is going to feel incredibly awkward about mentioning or interacting with his teammates from this point onward. That is, he's going to feel even more self-conscious than usual about it due to the amount of pressure he's under, pressure he's under while needed to develop his *very first reads* of the entire game. This might mean he avoids mentioning or interacting with them much at all.

Vivax is, I think, a random townie that he just picked to hard push until he died and hopefully make it look like he was bussing. He doesn't move off of Vivax until he dies and reiterates Vivax as a very strong scum read™ throughout the day. I think he wants it to look like a bus. And I feel he'd feel more comfortable doing this anyway than picking a scum mate to actually bus as he might not be able to do that convincingly. This is all ignoring the vig stuff that comes later which also probably makes Vivax town. (If Vivax was scum fake claiming vig I think it would have unfolded entirely different but that is neither here nor there)

So, what other slots does Ircher hand out?

petapan

uncrowned
mastina
roden

nerocain

These are all slots Ircher directly calls out as he's creating reads. None of them have much justification behind them besides Ircher reading and then calling it out. Honestly, my gut here is that all of these are actually town and Ircher doesn't feel the need to build associations between these slots. The most he talks about any of these slots (besides vivax) is mastina, and I don't really think calling her reads bad and horrible but still calling her town is the most intuitive way to interact with a scum buddy?

In post 803, Ircher wrote:I haven't read much from Titus. I see she is voting me, so that's minus points. I also don't get why she thinks there is guaranteed one scum between Smart and I. Despite that, given the sample size of evidence, I do not wish to give a conclusive read at this time.

However, there is one other (non)read he gives out which seems to stick out from these other ones? This is the most detail he gives for any of his reads besides Vivax and ends with being nonconclusive.

Spoiler:

not very many posts later, Ircher has slid Titus into his scum reads without further explanation. *this* feels more like the soft distancing and awkward handling of his buddy's slot that I would expect from Ircher under this much pressure.

Spoiler:

Spoiler: a case on titus

I will also say that a few posts later he revises this reads list to simply list Vivax, my slot, BBT, and Titus as scum. Generally, I think scum making scum team guesses tend to put at least one partner in there? I would expect that to be even more true of a slot that thought they were going to die. I know I'm not scum. BBT isn't scum. I don't really think Vivax is scum. Titus is not only the only slot left by PoE there but also the slot that has the weirdest trajectory by Ircher??

As far as Titus' actual posts go, they just seem overly careful? I get a sense of just being overly aware of how she's being perceived (and yes that extends to the more recent drunk posting.

Post 201 has a weird LAMISTy phrase in "generates wagons so not gunna fight this," and 204 "dude's not town" feels overly explainy. Like Titus doesn't want to be misconstrued as defending Ircher by accident?

221 is nonsense and I KNOW Titus is known for her town moon logic but I really don't think this is real thought that town has? Like I don't think town thinks in terms of such agenda, especially when the simpler solution of someone new coming to the thread is right there. This feels more like an attempt to make the push against Ircher a little softer by splitting the attention with SS. And frankly, if you're not buying into the slip argument, I fail to see how you have a read other than null on a 3 post slot, which Titus implies is scummy in 243.

More recently, I don't like 1804. It doesn't really make sense to post this to someone you just voted. I don't have any sense *why* Titus is bothered by Roden shading mastina. It's not like Roden has any power in thread, and as far as I can tell Titus is onboard with Roden!scum? It feels more like an attempt to pocket Mastina and mastina is someone who is very valuable to pocket like that.

I also don't like 1813 or 1814 because again they feel more LAMISTy than anything else. It feels more like she wants people to interact with her while drunk so she can get town credit rather than actually wanting to solve the game while drunk. If she was in drunk mafia playing mode I would expect more like... idk rants about what she currently feels passionate about in game - not fishing for interaction?

anyway I've been writing for long enough so I should probably move on to thoughts about the rest of the game.

===============================

@LUKEWARM

I want to hear from you about your read that Mastina is "actually always scum here." That feels like unearned confidence on a slot I find to be an extremely difficult read. I read your case on how she interacts with her scum buddies, but it seems to boil down to "she had too confident of a read too early." And I don't really get why that doesn't apply to any of her other reads? Like I feel mastina always puts on an air of bravado with all of her reads and her being right on one doesn't necessarily convince me that she is always scum here and was TMIing. Do you feel like her push on you is particularly disingenuous?

Spoiler: scattered thoughts on other players

Furtiveglance I think is Just Town for his interactions with Ircher and what I find to be general good posting. I think Vivax hard pushing that as scum start of Day 2 is so wildly unintuitive that scum would be unlikely to even think about it. I guess Vivax does in general have an unintuitive playstyle so maybe I shouldn't town read him for that, but there are other reasons to town read Vivax anyway.

I town lean Penguin. It's not a very in depth read, I just have felt like he was slightly higher effort D1 than I've seen from him before and I'm ascribing towniness to that.

Roden, I really really thought was scum D1. His pop ins only to talk mechanics and ignoring what was actually going on felt forced and like he was struggling for ways to contribute content. But I have a hard time seeing scum play this day phase the way he has? I'm not sure why he feels the need to claim in the first place? It just seems overly risky and I would think that scum after a rather horrible D1 would be feeling more risk averse than not by today? He's also the counterwagon to Titus so there is a little bit of that factoring in here but all of his play today just feels really counterintuitive from scum. It's not consistent or polished or agreeable in the way I would expect scum to come into this day behaving.

I'm trying to think of other people who made a strong impression on me.

I remember being vaguely unimpressed with jjh. I find 1888 kinda LAMIST and it's the sorta stance that I would expect scum to be taking if Roden is town here. I also find 1887 kinda weird because it seems like all of these slots are at odds with each other right now and I would expect jjh to be playing more of an intervention/mediator role. I feel like he's spending a lot of time on Roden but it's more just meant to look like he was trying to figure out Roden's alignment instead of actually convincing anyone else or defusing the situation.

My feelings there aren't that strong though and I fully admit that some of that could be paranoia.

Klick I remember finding somewhat performative but otherwise *fine*

Andres I think has bad associatives with Ircher (largely in that Ircher did not mention or interact with Andres and the way that Andres interacted with Ircher felt very much like a bus to me) and I would be interested in wagoning here but only as like a pretty distant second to Titus

I don't super like Ausuka this game but I can't tell if that's because of outside influences or not. The interaction with Roden kinda left a bad taste in my mouth but I haven't really been able to put my finger on why.

I have surprised myself and liked fireisred's posting this game.

I remember liking ydrasse.

I think I'll stop the post here and engage in real time now because I kinda doubt the reads I just got from bingereading this game in a single afternoon are the most valuable reads I've ever produced

Dannflor · Post Post #1952 (isolation #2) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:09 pm

sorry for wall, i didnt really know how else to format my catchup and i didnt want to blow up the thread with half formed thoughts

Dannflor · Post Post #1953 (isolation #3) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:09 pm

VOTE: Titus

Dannflor · Post Post #1955 (isolation #4) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:12 pm

Spoiler:

also what exactly are your concerns about malakittens? I did start skimming towards the end because its getting later, but I feel like you'd have more success and feel less "hopeless" if you articulated some worries here

because right now this is just a vanity wagon and I'm not entirely sure the reason for it beyond "uh oh here's a slot with less thread presence"

Dannflor · Post Post #1958 (isolation #5) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:14 pm

Penguin why do you think S_S is scum

Dannflor · Post Post #1961 (isolation #6) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:20 pm

was it something you think he got like "wrong?" (whether intentionally or because he's coming from a scum perspective?)

or was it the mech talk in lieu of other content

Dannflor · Post Post #1962 (isolation #7) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:20 pm

I didn't

or I did but I forgot about it

I do think S_S acquiesces like that more often as scum? S_S you have a comment on that?

Dannflor · Post Post #1964 (isolation #8) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:27 pm

In post 349, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 347, furtiveglance wrote:I don't think I'm doing mental gymnastics when I say that I originally assumed 16/5, but now that Ircher assumed 17/4 without acknowledging that they were assuming that, I am now considering a 4-player mafia team with Ircher as one of those.
No, that's reasonable. I don't want to say too much before Ircher gets a chance to respond, but I think this is a plausible scenario, if not super likely.

In post 760, Something_Smart wrote:Ircher, please pick a productive line of thought instead of whatever this mastina shade is.

I don't find his posts about/towards Ircher super partnery. The latter feels like something that would be said in the scum PT if it were to be said.

It's not really strongly leaning either way though and obviously associatives aren't everything

Dannflor · Post Post #1965 (isolation #9) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:31 pm

In post 221, Titus wrote:I think at least one of Ircher/SS if not both are scum. The timing of this slip argument right as SS gets pushed for reads is a bit sus when that argument was there all along.

I guess it kinda bothers me if you have something you feel strong about in S_S because I sort of doubt Titus and S_S are scum together?

which means I think one of us is wrong

Maybe it's too much of a jump to just assume that Titus would never make this post so early about two of her buddies but it just seems so brazen if so

Dannflor · Post Post #1972 (isolation #10) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:05 pm

I would like to hear more from Uncrowned about what he wants today

Dannflor · Post Post #1974 (isolation #11) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:44 pm

In post 1858, mastina wrote:Because in this game, I wouldn't have. It's that simple, really. I didn't say I couldn't, or that in general I wouldn't. I said that in this game I wouldn't.

I meant exactly what I said. I might bus to set Ircher up in general. But in this game I wouldn't. In this game Ircher would explicitly be worth less than me. And I don't bus scum who are worth less than me; I only bus scum who are worth more than me. So in this game specifically, I wouldn't have bussed Ircher. I would have strong reason to not have done so. (Specifically, because of knowing about CONTROL. A big, big thing about my scumgames is that I avoid doing the same ploy twice. I bussed Ircher in CONTROL, which means that I couldn't bus Ircher in this game because everyone would know about how I did so in CONTROL. Bussing the same player the same way in two scumgames would mean that if the game has literally any of the same players or literally any player who looked at the previous game, they'd make the connection. It's surface-level stupidity to think I'd do the exact same move twice for the same scumbuddy.)

ah your post reminded me of this that had stuck out while reading. this post seems to ignore the reality that I don't think anyone could've prepared for Ircher's apparent scum slip and the subsequent storm that followed. who is to say mastina would have continued with the ircher push if that would have happened? like it just ignores the reality that there are situations where it would've been optimal to bus ircher as mastina!scum and I think mastina should have enough self-awareness to know that

I don't think that's a big point against her because she makes these types of arguments a lot but this argument in particular bugged me

Dannflor · Post Post #1975 (isolation #12) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:46 pm

Mastina, can you elaborate on your Uncrowned and Andres reads? I feel like you keep skipping right over them

Dannflor · Post Post #1978 (isolation #13) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:01 pm

I see your points - I think unfortunately the rather stubborn push on you isn't immediately alignment indicative. I think Mastina tends to dig in her heels early and often as either alignment, and it only becomes apparent over time how genuine her stubbornness is.
Definitely not a slot that I'm just not going to reevaluate until D4 or whatever

Dannflor · Post Post #1979 (isolation #14) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:02 pm

Do you have experience with her town meta too?

Dannflor · Post Post #1981 (isolation #15) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:06 pm

eyebrow raise

Dannflor · Post Post #1990 (isolation #16) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:48 pm

I don’t think so

Dannflor · Post Post #1993 (isolation #17) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:52 pm

In post 1988, mastina wrote:Okay I have a new hot take:

One, but not both, of {Lukewarm, Dannflor} are scum.

They are
not
scumbuddies, but they are
not
both town.

Their interactions already have me sure that they're not partnered together but both look like scum interacting with town, if that makes sense. One of them is town being interacted with by scum; the other is scum interacting with town.

This doesn’t make sense and you should be reevaluating more if you simultaneously see us both as scum interacting with town and as not aligned

Either you are just seeing exactly what you want to see or you are intentionally trying to create this narrative that shouldn’t make sense from your perspective

Dannflor · Post Post #1994 (isolation #18) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:55 pm

Like right now you’re discrediting both me and Lukewarm by calling us both strongly possible scum but simultaneously saying you can’t sort us right now

It feels like you’re only doing this because we disagree with you

If you really believe one (or as I think both) of us is town, why the hell aren’t you more curious about finding that out?

Dannflor · Post Post #1995 (isolation #19) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:58 pm

Like according to you

One of us is town and has a very different take on the game

Do you think there might not be some value to what we have to say?

Why haven’t you engaged with my opening post at all except to vaguely discredit it as “not my town replacement meta” which is false btw

I think you have the ability to genuinely try and sort me but the refusal to has me very worried

Dannflor · Post Post #1996 (isolation #20) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:00 pm

Maybe this isn’t a productive line to go down, I’m not sure

I would like explanations on your uncrowned and Andres reads if you’re going to engage with anything

Dannflor · Post Post #1999 (isolation #21) » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:16 pm

Mastina I have this sinking gut feeling that you are town and that scum is currently playing around you specifically and pocketing you

I would love a good faith effort to sort me but that feels like not the direction you’re headed in

Dannflor · Post Post #2053 (isolation #22) » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:18 am

In post 2010, mastina wrote:
In post 1999, Dannflor wrote:Mastina I have this sinking gut feeling that you are town and that scum is currently playing around you specifically and pocketing you
Name names and I can humor you but I'm not going to respond to Titus/Vivax/Something_Smart as options.
Period.

Nor jjh, nor PenguinPower.

Name a name you think is scum playing around me/pocketing me outside of those and I will listen.

But not jjh/Vivax/Something_Smart/PenguinPower or Titus.

JJH is possible but I don't really scum read him, I'm just waiting for him to be more town. I'll admit I could be wrong on Titus.

I definitely think Klick fits the bill here. I think Uncrowned might possibly fit the bill here.

I'm not honestly sure beyond that but you have to realize that you are getting a bunch of passive support from people who aren't really chasing their own directions at all. Like Klick just seems to be in lockstep with you without any real unique pushes or thoughts of his own. Uncrowned has his own deal with Roden going on but I don't really understand what else he wants today.

I think from a game-state point of view its worrying that you're scumreading the entire Titus wagon or some combination of Roden/Lukewarm/Dann/Fire or whatever, because largely we're the only slots that are in conflict with you. And we all mostly town read each other. Fire hasn't popped in and didn't town read my slot before but whatever.

Generally, it's not that likely for scum to stick together in a block like that. psychologically, we would want to take slightly differing positions. and I think the passive support you seem to have points towards scum in that area rather than town because I think town tends to be a lot more curious

Dannflor · Post Post #2054 (isolation #23) » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:19 am

thanks adres, that helps

I won't be around the rest of the day to post, visiting family

Dannflor · Post Post #2057 (isolation #24) » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:35 am

ausuka why didn't you comment more on the last few pages

Dannflor · Post Post #2065 (isolation #25) » Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:12 am

In post 2062, Uncrowned wrote:
In post 2053, Dannflor wrote:Uncrowned has his own deal with Roden going on but I don't really understand what else he wants today.
not much really!

i think this flip will say a lot

what will this flip say?

Dannflor · Post Post #2111 (isolation #26) » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:26 am

Klick, I’ll be honest I wasn’t really interested in engaging with you after you failed to engage with any part of my entrance to the game and instead just said “Dannflor scummy af”

That does not give me the picture that you are evaluating your reads in a curious way

Dannflor · Post Post #2117 (isolation #27) » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:42 am

I’m about to run D&D

I’ll think about Klick and answer when I return tonight

Dannflor · Post Post #2241 (isolation #28) » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:31 pm

sorry for my absence, weekend was busier than I expected. I’ll return in about 8 hours I need to sleep

Dannflor · Post Post #2277 (isolation #29) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:55 am

VOTE: Titus

Dannflor · Post Post #2279 (isolation #30) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:55 am

I'm sorry jjh for not getting to you yesterday, I am around now

Dannflor · Post Post #2294 (isolation #31) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:04 am

In post 2115, jjh927 wrote:Now, Dannflor, do you want to talk about Klick

Anyway

I lean scum here. I find the way they developed reads throughout D1 to be a little performative? I suppose I should have done by homework to see whether Klick always does the giant list which they gradually strike out - but experiencing it for the first time I got the impression that Klick was "doing things just to do them"

I feel like there's a lot of posts that reinforce that to me too

Like 792 or 545 that are just observations? I think scum that goes unnoticed under the radar a lot are scum that are skilled at making observations without a lot of hard stances and reading through Klick's ISO I get the impression that they are doing stuff but not what they are doing? And the frankly the scum team of Dannflor/Roden/not-too-deep-deep-wolf feels... not very high-level for the amount of sorting Klick seems to want to appear to be doing?

I also find their Ircher vote, stating that they don't really have an opinion on the scum slip one way or another, a probable bus vote, but I realize I may be entering conf-bias territory with this point

What is your take on Klick?

Dannflor · Post Post #2297 (isolation #32) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:07 am

I would imagine Ausuka is a vig shot

I think she was viably in the miselimination pool and unless scum saw something they thought was a crumb or something I doubt they take that shot

Dannflor · Post Post #2301 (isolation #33) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:10 am

In post 2298, Andresvmb wrote:Klick is such a bad push I don’t trust Dannflor very much right now. Their vote D1 in 269 is being forgotten all of a sudden, just as momentum was turning against Vivax?

Vivax had like 2 votes on them vs Ircher's like 7

I think it's perfectly sensible as a bus vote

I don't real as strong about this as say Titus and I'm willing to hear that I may be wrong

do you have other reasons for town reading them so strongly?

Dannflor · Post Post #2303 (isolation #34) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:10 am

feel as strong*

jesus my fingers are word salady right now

Dannflor · Post Post #2315 (isolation #35) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:26 am

In post 2306, Andresvmb wrote:I don’t TR Klick “so strongly”, but a balanced accounting of Klick’s play D1 would have surely incorporated that vote. Instead, you’re focused on how performative the explanation for their reads was D1, and nothing else, which seems one-sided to me. And honestly, I intend to spend most of my time trying to figure out whether Titus makes sense as an execution here, because odds are that they’ll face immense pressure (way too many votes have piled on there both yesterday and today, and there’s been a lot of discussion about the slot). Klick just… isn’t going to get executed over several other suspicious slots today. So your push seems way out of place to me.

I did mention the vote - and I do not read it the same way you do. I don't think it necessarily indicates much one way or another, but I think it's completely viable as a bus vote. There's nothing about the timing that scream anti-partnery to me. Again, I mentioned this.

I am not pushing Klick. Hence my vote on Titus.

I am talking about my read on Klick because jjh specifically asked me.

I don't feel super strongly about my read on Klick so I'm putting what I think about Klick out there so that people can challenge me on that.

if you have other reasons to town read Klick I would genuinely like for you to explain them please

Dannflor · Post Post #2319 (isolation #36) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:35 am

vivax made it clear that they weren't gonna kill luke anymore i thought?

Dannflor · Post Post #2329 (isolation #37) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:41 am

In post 2325, Titus wrote:Vivax also TRed me.

Vivax is the scum kill which makes no sense from me.

It's Luke.

You really think you would have no reason to kill a town vig as scum?

Dannflor · Post Post #2334 (isolation #38) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:43 am

nice ydrasse

Dannflor · Post Post #2336 (isolation #39) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:43 am

vindication !!

Dannflor · Post Post #2353 (isolation #40) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:50 am

wait did the action go through on mastina?

Dannflor · Post Post #2358 (isolation #41) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:51 am

In post 2354, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 2349, Titus wrote:I crumbed her as my target.
Why would you crumb a target for that role

maybe it was supposed to be another claim originally

Dannflor · Post Post #2370 (isolation #42) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:56 am

I should make some popcorn for this

Dannflor · Post Post #2385 (isolation #43) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:00 am

I am going to say that mastina/titus prooobably aren't s/s?

Dannflor · Post Post #2392 (isolation #44) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:02 am

I'm going to lunch lmao

Dannflor · Post Post #2429 (isolation #45) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:16 am

Doesn’t that mean someone else targeted mastina and thus Titus’s action should have failed?????

Dannflor · Post Post #2448 (isolation #46) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:22 am

Datisi is laughing rnow

Dannflor · Post Post #2454 (isolation #47) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:25 am

Does it like explicitly say in your PM that you count as having a PT? Does it say in what context?

Dannflor · Post Post #2479 (isolation #48) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:34 am

Mastina doesn’t appear to be claiming a hard guilty in her first post

VOTE: titus

Dannflor · Post Post #2481 (isolation #49) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:35 am

The question should not have been why did roden have so much resistance, but why did Titus have so much resistance

Dannflor · Post Post #2482 (isolation #50) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:36 am

Yeah I think it’s somewhat likely mastina could be town and also lying here

Dannflor · Post Post #2491 (isolation #51) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:39 am

In post 2484, fireisredsir wrote:isn't mastina's like whole thing that she hates lying about claims

I thought mastina’s whole thing was lying about claims

Dannflor · Post Post #2497 (isolation #52) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:40 am

Hm that’s not a guilty

Also fire has every reason to track you

Dannflor · Post Post #2505 (isolation #53) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:45 am

I mean Titus assuming she had a partner in mastina when her action actually failed just seems like something town would never do

Dannflor · Post Post #2509 (isolation #54) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:46 am

In post 2504, Something_Smart wrote:then we can kill fire afterward.

for why

Dannflor · Post Post #2571 (isolation #55) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:24 am

so titus is just scum then

Dannflor · Post Post #2573 (isolation #56) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:25 am

I don't know about fire/mastina

I think it's possible they are both town

but I think mastina is most likely to be town

Dannflor · Post Post #2586 (isolation #57) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:39 am

In post 2576, Ydrasse wrote:maybe wolf team balanced by like inverse of town

maybe they have to be more productive to actually use roles during night

In post 2577, Ydrasse wrote:so pick between using pr or getting extra kill

is there any reason this wouldn't make sense mastina?

Dannflor · Post Post #2588 (isolation #58) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:40 am

damn that's a strong role you have ydrasse

Dannflor · Post Post #2593 (isolation #59) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:42 am

well for one thing fire didn't claim tracker

Dannflor · Post Post #2595 (isolation #60) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:43 am

ah cool ok

Dannflor · Post Post #2605 (isolation #61) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:46 am

I mean I think it's possible scum could miss that too ?

Dannflor · Post Post #2611 (isolation #62) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:48 am

In post 2607, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 2605, Dannflor wrote:I mean I think it's possible scum could miss that too ?
Miss what? That their roles don't cost %?

I mean I think it's possible to miss that that is a mod confirmed piece of information as scum

Dannflor · Post Post #2615 (isolation #63) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:51 am

nvm I think ydrasse is town so I don't know why I'm arguing this

Dannflor · Post Post #2621 (isolation #64) » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:57 am

fire/titus/klick

there's my 360 no scope scum team guess

Dannflor · Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:04 am

do you have a comment on the titus/ydrasse situation, mastina

Dannflor · Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:39 pm

I don't really get furtiveglance being in your pool

Dannflor · Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:40 pm

oh hm for some reason I've never read #198

Dannflor · Post Post #2745 (isolation #68) » Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:08 pm

such a tease

Dannflor · Post Post #2746 (isolation #69) » Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:09 pm

In post 2742, Andresvmb wrote:Alternatively, they’re executing VTs so that they can have the average be lower than 75% and get an additional NK. Actually, that’s probably why.

how would they know Lukewarm was a VT

Dannflor · Post Post #2760 (isolation #70) » Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:57 pm

Yeah okay VOTE: furtive

Dannflor · Post Post #2780 (isolation #71) » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:40 am

I don't scum read Klick anymore

Dannflor · Post Post #2781 (isolation #72) » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:40 am

Also Mastina has clearly reevaluated

really Titus was the scum I was afraid of being in her blindspot

Dannflor · Post Post #2785 (isolation #73) » Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:58 am

In post 2783, jjh927 wrote:I think the interesting thing about Dannflor's answer to my question about Klick is that my question was actually about Roden and the question itself lost all value after Roden flipped

what were you hoping to gain?

Dannflor · Post Post #2788 (isolation #74) » Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:58 am

In post 2775, furtiveglance wrote:Also, the continuation of a scumread on Klick after RC had the same, that's a strategic choice, the read doesn't look natural.

what about it exactly doesn't look natural

Dannflor · Post Post #2789 (isolation #75) » Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:59 am

What do you think about Klick now, jjh

Dannflor · Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:04 pm

Dannflor · Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:10 pm

I read mastina's posts, I mostly liked them

Dannflor · Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:11 pm

and mostly I just didn't know where else to vote right now

I am not even hard scum reading you but the points mastina raised weakened my town read of you and I am interested in seeing where this wagon goes

I don't really like your knee-jerk reaction to this but I feel like I don't have enough distance to tell whether it's actually AI or not

Dannflor · Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:12 pm

In post 2796, furtiveglance wrote:
In post 2795, Dannflor wrote:I read mastina's posts, I mostly liked them
That explains a townread on mastina

I meant her posts casing you

Dannflor · Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:13 pm

like I feel like I have better places to push if I were scum? like I could continue with the klick push or something?

what do you actually think my motivation here is as scum for jumping on like this

Dannflor · Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:16 pm

I feel like your approach to me is very level 0 right now but I can't tell if you're just having an emotional reaction to votes

where else do you think scum are?

Dannflor · Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:19 pm

In post 2801, furtiveglance wrote:
In post 2798, Dannflor wrote:
In post 2796, furtiveglance wrote:
In post 2795, Dannflor wrote:I read mastina's posts, I mostly liked them
That explains a townread on mastina
I meant her posts casing you
If you agree so much, and you clearly do, can you give one point against me apart from not voting Titus?

I don't have anything *against* you exactly. The main thing that changed is that I realized the whole reason I townlocked you was kinda bunk.

Spoiler:

I townlocked you initially for this sequence where you were the primary person to bring attention back to the scum slip by Ircher

However, mastina quoted the below post

In post 198, furtiveglance wrote:We shouldn't fire Ydrasse, I think they're an Employee. I'll vote Ircher for now but I might unvote if they come on and explain why they thought 17/4.

VOTE: Ircher

Uncrowned I voted someone.

and that really made me question my townlock of you because for some reason I'd just never read this post before when I was ISOing you. It reads as hedgy and not as bullish on the scum slip argument as I had initially thought you were. It almost reads like you hope you can give Ircher an out.

anyway, not really a reason to scum read you but enough to put you back in the sorting pool

so I thought it would be interesting to wagon you

Dannflor · Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:20 pm

In post 2803, furtiveglance wrote:
In post 2802, Dannflor wrote:I feel like your approach to me is very level 0 right now but I can't tell if you're just having an emotional reaction to votes

where else do you think scum are?
Something_Smart, I said that in the post I voted you. Malakittens definitely likely, JJH and PenguinPower also have potential. Everyone else I'm treating as town

why do JJH and PP have potential? just absence of towniness or are there specific points of suspicion?

Dannflor · Post Post #2854 (isolation #84) » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:07 am

VOTE: Something_Smart

Dannflor · Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:44 am

In post 221, Titus wrote:I think at least one of Ircher/SS if not both are scum. The timing of this slip argument right as SS gets pushed for reads is a bit sus when that argument was there all along.

i forgot i think this makes SS!scum less likely

Dannflor · Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:51 am

I think the more I read of Titus the less I think SS ever makes sense as scum here

I forget why I ever really stopped scum reading this VOTE: Klick

what does it accomplish to claim you targeted Ausuka + Lukewarm?

Dannflor · Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:01 pm

VOTE: furtive glance

I just don’t really believe your scum read on me

It feels by necessity

Dannflor · Post Post #3004 (isolation #88) » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:42 pm

Yeah actually my head hasn’t really been in this game

But I think FG’s latest posts read a lot like defeated town and honestly I think he behaves much more conciliatory towards me as scum.

I thought he needed to scum read me but that doesn’t really make sense, in what world am I a necessary scum read to anyone? Especially when slots like malakittens exist

I think FG admitting he has too many scum reads and not really doing anything about it is Town Actually. I think jjh not seeing that is a little weird but eh

I like the Andres push. I especially hated “if Ircher flips town, flip this” in reference to Vivax. It feels like directly preparing for an Ircher scum flip.

VOTE: Andres

Dannflor · Post Post #3009 (isolation #89) » Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:44 am

Why S_S

I feel pretty confidently town on SS and I never feel confidently town on SS

Dannflor · Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:34 pm

I’d probably vote Mala

Dannflor · Post Post #3083 (isolation #91) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:44 am

Like I would vote malakittens as a last resort to end the day but it definitely *feels* wrong

Dannflor · Post Post #3084 (isolation #92) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:49 am

In post 2537, Titus wrote:Last scum is Andres or PP based off VCA

Klick Luke andres/PP

That's my final answer

I will be honest I think even Titus "I don't bus" Titus would put one scum in this list.

It's just like kinda human nature to put at least one scum in your solve.

I don't super like Klick entering the day with the "oh noes I have a confirmable role" because it feels preemptive in a way that a townie would feel the need to be.

PP I don't really think is scum but I suppose I don't have any super solid reasons for that. There's nothing really anti-partnery between him and either Titus or Ircher.

Andres or Klick is probably where I want to vote between today but I should probably do due diligence because I don't think they are both scum

Dannflor · Post Post #3085 (isolation #93) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:50 am

that a townie wouldn't feel the need to be*

Dannflor · Post Post #3089 (isolation #94) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:19 am

Eh I found the attack on me for my push of Klick to be kinda unlikely to come from scum buddies

I thought it was more likely that Andres knows Klick is town and thus knew that my read was bunk

Dannflor · Post Post #3091 (isolation #95) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:29 am

Dannflor · Post Post #3096 (isolation #96) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:48 am

klick what's your read on andres

Dannflor · Post Post #3111 (isolation #97) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:31 am

yeah I think I just want to vote in [andres, fire] today

Dannflor · Post Post #3112 (isolation #98) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:34 am

lowkey think that might just be the team

Dannflor · Post Post #3115 (isolation #99) » Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:52 am

I think when you get overwhelmingly null vibes reading through a lot then that slot is more likely than not scum

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:43 pm

the recent scum game Malakittens seems to be referring to is this one: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89313

which if you take even a cursory glance past the game, you will see that it is a terrible basis for town reading Andres

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:44 pm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88600

this game, for instance

which malakittens was not in

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:46 pm

ergo, malakitten's confidence on andres' town is based on shaky ground

does that maybe make mala town? idk possibly. but it invalidates the point that for some reason we should be sheeping malakittens.

I also don't super think malakittens is scum either and TMIing a townie

the posts you are picking out as super townie are just like... not? they are either a lot of setup spec or posts that you called good in a different world where you believed Roden was scum and Titus was town.

in new context they look a lot worse

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:26 pm

What if I think Andres/jjh is actually very plausible

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:03 pm

Andres I need to get a better sense of who you think is scum

I feel like you’re afraid to push anywhere

It’s all defense no trying to solve the game which you really should be as town if you are this uncertain about who scum could be

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:08 pm

Okay but your ranking has no outright scum reads, me at neutral, and jjh at uncertain

Like, there’s no urgency behind fixing that

I feel like as town your top priority would be sorting me and jjh but I don’t really see that?

Like mechanically you are doing the work of ISOing and sorting but I feel like your heart isn’t in it exactly? Like you are sorting but not reaching any solid conclusions. Which is fine… I’m often uncertain too, but I don’t really get the sense you feel like you need or even particularly want to fix that

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:13 pm

my point was malakittens was using a point of reference that was you low posting and basically flaking out as scum

I just linked that game to show that you can obviously do a lot more as scum. That doesn't mean you *are* scum I just don't think malakittens' read is good

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:14 pm

btw was there a reason we aren't killing fire today i forgot

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:15 pm

Can you talk to me a little bit about jjh? I realize you said you hadn't iso'd them yet but even just vague uncertain feelings would be nice to hear

that slot just kinda makes my eyes go fuzzy when I try to read it

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:18 pm

In post 3160, Andresvmb wrote:I don’t agree that my heart isn’t in it btw. Me expressing uncertainty does not speak to motivation. I may be busy sometimes during the week and my job is just heavy at the moment (which is why I haven’t signed up to any games in months). But when I’m here, it’s not like I’m not here trying to solve. If I was just hanging out or just defending myself that would be one thing. But I’ve tried looking through votes, reading through Titus’ comments, read through the beginning multiple times, ISO’ed multiple players. Like I don’t get how you come to the conclusion that I’m not at least trying.

I think a lot of the time the line between "scum trying to look like they are trying but not actually do anything" and "townie trying to do stuff but struggling" is a thin one

and I'm not entirely certain where you are

I'm sorry if you are town I know it sucks to be told you aren't trying when you really are, I'm just trying to gauge how performative it is and I find not having really any major scum reads to speak of suspect after doing so much sorting. Like it reads maybe like you don't want to get your hands dirty on like a furtive wagon or anything like that. I guess you have been pushing Uncrowned though so maybe that isn't entirely fair

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:18 pm

not having any major scum reads to speak of is suspect*

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:28 pm

I think you would have motivation to not be on a wagon that'll flip town and make it look convincing, but I don't necessarily think you were wrong no

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:28 pm

eurgh am i being pocketed by PP

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:30 pm

I think people are generally overestimating the value of "scum would never bus with 2 scum left"

scum bus for no rhyme or reason

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:36 pm

fire why'd you switch

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:41 pm

here's the thing

if mastina is wrong on furtive

I think scum are very likely to make up a reason to town read furtive and vote elsewhere

because generally mastina gets what she wants. it's just a matter of sussing out who genuinely town reads furtive and who just wants the cred

also assuming furtive is town which maybe I should reevaluate that again

Dannflor · Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:45 pm

VOTE: klick

i gotta go but i also feel andres has been towny here I was just interested in what fire would say

also idk I keep going back over titus/fire and I don't super see fire scum from that alone

the claim is probably the scummiest thing about him but I don't think it's damning

Dannflor · Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:39 am

I guess we can give Klick a day

Mala is just so unsatisfying

jjh did you have a reason for leaving furtive alone?

Dannflor · Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:30 am

VOTE: malakittens

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:26 am

VOTE: fire

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:44 am

Two town imo

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:53 am

Why is jjh cleared?

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:03 am

Scum probably within [fire, furtive]

Outside chance of [jjh]

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:06 am

I guess it could be uncrowned

Furtive why do you suspect him so hard again

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:53 am

Fire goes first in mass claim

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:50 am

VOTE: Furtive

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:12 pm

In post 3397, furtiveglance wrote:I'm not unvoting unless the claim is good

VOTE: Uncrowned

In post 3398, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 3393, furtiveglance wrote:I don't think Uncrowned is a town PR, I think that visit is a guilty result.
I’m going to quote this and say

That is all.

Lol

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:30 pm

Uncrowned didn’t mod confirm until today

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:32 pm

I pushed for an Andres check maybe it was my b but I had some lingering suspicion, as did Uncrowned

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:23 pm

Vanilla waiter, already claimed in hood

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:24 pm

I think furtive seems most likely here but if it’s not this game seems mechanically over anyway

Dannflor · Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:05 pm

I am mostly checked out atp, I think I’ve done my duty, time for the setup minded ppl to solve the game

Gut says furtive but it would be pretty classic of me to misread S_S

Dannflor · Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:25 am

I thought it was miselim bait, it felt too easy

Idk I think I’m every scenario a slot like Mala just gets bussed, it’s not endgaming right?

Personally feel like it would be weird play of me to hard bus Titus, who could actually endgame, and soft defend Mala, who almost always gets ellimed at some point

Dannflor · Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:40 am

can you elaborate on what stuff makes it hard to see scum!fire

Dannflor · Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:00 am

BUM BUM BUM

Dannflor · Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:10 pm

VOTE: Something_Smart

Dannflor · Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:59 pm

Dannflor · Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:34 pm

Fire that hammer was kinda really gross

Dannflor · Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:38 pm

In post 3555, fireisredsir wrote:i thought the joe response was a scumclaim but ive been wrong on that before

I think it would be less bad if you didn’t immediately add “ive been wrong on that before,” like if you genuinely had that level of self doubt you would not have hammered

Feels performative and not in a good way

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:19 am

Well, then presumably Uncrowned’s action would’ve been blocked

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:21 am

VOTE: Furtive

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 am

I don’t feel the need

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:32 am

if I have to spell it out

fire and mastina are both most likely to be 3p shots

and both point towards you

mastina for obvious reasons and fire because he said he wanted to check you if SS flipped town

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:46 am

ydrasse was essentially conf town

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:48 am

I think if I were scum I would've tried a lot harder to use the neighborhood to pocket PP/Uncrowned/Ydrasse but ymmv

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:51 am

I'm not talking to you tbf

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:53 am

I just think neighborhoods are such delightful opportunities to pocket people

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:56 am

yes and then i killed fire

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:00 am

I don't either

but like idk why I would tell him that if I could

it would just clearly point back to me

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:32 am

The only thing I know how to look for is survivalism given 3p would be the only player who needs to survive to the end of the game to win

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:57 am

Spoiler: d4

In post 2792, furtiveglance wrote:
In post 2791, jjh927 wrote:Gun to my head they might actually be the closest thing to a scumread I have right now but I feel like I've been actively denied information over the course of this game
How have people denied you information? By hammering before you can do whatever you wanted to do?

I'm not liking the votecount right now, if others want S_S I can go there, but that vote on me by Dannflor was egregious to say the least.

VOTE: Dannflor

In post 2934, furtiveglance wrote:
In post 2933, Klick wrote:
In post 2921, fireisredsir wrote:klick
Hi
Ngl I've really not got the energy at the moment, I'm off work sick for the last couple of days
I'm not going to force myself to engage heavily when I'm not in a place to enjoy it at least a little bit
I'm aware there's other outstanding stuff for me from earlier and I'll try to get to everything

You made a point in this post about it not seeming like my reads have developed much lately. The current problem is that I feel fairly confident in the reasons I've got the players as town that I do, BUT my list of remaining available scum doesn't... feel right. I don't have a concrete reason for it in my head but Dannflor doesn't feel like scum to me. Exactly jjh/S_S doesn't seem right, they're also two players that I don't think I'd get a solid townread on easily if they were town (I do think one scum there is probably a good shout though?). So I'm in a place where one of my townreads is probably wrong and I need to identify which, but I don't like any of the choices because they all feel town to me. So it needs to be someone who is rather committed to playing in a way that reads as genuine to me, OR one of the reads themselves is a poor read.

I'll give the furtive deepwolf theory some consideration but it doesn't feel realistic on first impression
Firstly, deepwolf is very flattering.

Secondly, I have felt for many moons that Malakittens is not town. Could it be Mala/Uncrowned?

I'll backstab Uncrowned after townreading him all game, because Andres wants it and I'd like to see some momentum on a non F name. Don't get me wrong, Dannflor is still suspicious.

VOTE: Uncrowned

In post 3010, furtiveglance wrote:I'll vote for Malakittens if that one looks likely.

In post 3199, furtiveglance wrote:I want to keep my vote on Malakittens but also pressure Klick because this isn't acceptable

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:45 am

I don't really have more to do or say here

I think it's just furtive

I would be somewhat surprised if someone like jjh made the mechanical error of shooting fire

Dannflor · Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:33 am

In post 3264, Dannflor wrote:Scum probably within [fire, furtive]

Outside chance of [jjh]

ayyyyyy

still ended up killing S_S sorry S_S

Dannflor · Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:18 pm

beep boop

Dannflor · Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:29 pm

is the game over?

Dannflor · Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:18 pm

cool gg

Dannflor · Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:03 am

gg all

Thanks for missing Datisi, fun and flavorful game

Dannflor · Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:04 am

hm I meant modding

Dannflor · Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:19 am

were scum not given fake claims?