Gnosia Game over!

[Roden]

I got the character I wanted

Anyone awake right now?

[Roden]

Quick addendum: AC Follower and Bug will come up as a false green check for the Engineer and Doctor, since they check to see if their target is Human or Gnosia.

[Roden]

Aside from just the Engineer and/or Doctor claiming, does anyone think we should claim characters before EoD? Mainly asking since Sha-Ming exists, which means the Grovel skill likely exists.

PE: Nice, I've been playing as well, mainly just practice runs using the settings the mod is using here. What's your opinion on the game so far?

[Roden]

I only looked information without playing. I have no real knowledge.


Also voting in this game is anonymous.

Also. Who the hell is Enchat

If it's 1:1 with the game, then voting isn't anonymous and is actually revealed once the deadline ends and we see the results.

Aside from just the Engineer and/or Doctor claiming, does anyone think we should claim characters before EoD? Mainly asking since Sha-Ming exists, which means the Grovel skill likely exists.

PE: Nice, I've been playing as well, mainly just practice runs using the settings the mod is using here. What's your opinion on the game so far?

Gets fairly complicated once you get the game rolling, first loops while the game is explaining roles and stuff felt like Button mashing simulador because of how obvious the gnosia we're, it aint a master piece but it's fun

I think we could character claim without outting too much, at least mine is different from what I expected i think it's fine

Yeah that's more or less how I felt playing through it, I started enjoying it a lot more once Yuriko showed up and the settings got more customizable.

And that's about what I'd prefer with character claims as well. I picked Chipie since he's one of my favorites and I figured he didn't have a "signature ability" that would look threatening. I'm kinda surprised with his skill but I like what I got.

[Roden]

State your human.

I'm human.

An ability has been activated!

For this dayphase only we will have a standard voting phase and skip freezing phase.

Please vote for who you want to be frozen using vote tolds aka VOTE: Maria bolded votes will not count!

VC 1.0

Not voting: (15) Scoliosis, Marashu, Roden, Jessica Rabbit, Elmo TeH AzN Klick, Ranger, Yume, FakeGod, JunkoChan, Enchant, Autere, shiki, Not Known, 15 narrow parking,

Deadline is in (expired on 2022-12-16 04:39:24)

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 to fade away

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

[Roden]

Please vote for who you want to be frozen using vote tolds aka VOTE: Maria bolded votes will not count!

This is something interesting to note. Sorry Mod I just wanted this to be known.

State your human.

I'm a human!

it's obviously I'm a human, haven't you looked at me?!?!

I don't understand this still as if most abilities are one shot. How would who ever has one be able to clear people?

I believe that only character abilities are one shot. "Say You're Human", for instance, is a skill in the game and would be a character-specific ability, and thus would be one shot.

"Engineer", on the other hand, is a role both in the game and in this set up that anyone could have rolled since it isn't character-specific, and thus would not be one shot.

[Roden]

Please vote for who you want to be frozen using vote tolds aka VOTE: Maria bolded votes will not count!

This is something interesting to note. Sorry Mod I just wanted this to be known.

State your human.

I'm a human!

it's obviously I'm a human, haven't you looked at me?!?!

I don't understand this still as if most abilities are one shot. How would who ever has one be able to clear people?

I believe that only character abilities are one shot. "Say You're Human", for instance, is a skill in the game and would be a character-specific ability, and thus would be one shot.

"Engineer", on the other hand, is a role both in the game and in this set up that anyone could have rolled since it isn't character-specific, and thus would not be one shot.

Also, you had to state your ability and role when confirming to the mod that you understood your role PM. If you're confused, referring back to that would be helpful.

[Roden]

though it was kinda a strange way for marashu to phrase it due to saying town as opposed to humans but ehhh feels fairly interchangeable to me

Wanted to say it that way because at the time I didn't know whether or not there's a lie detector (to be fair, I still don't) and wanted to cover for bug/traitor coming up human in case it's an actual lie detector and not just saying you're human. Don't know if it's NK15's actual skill or if it's a bluff, but I lose nothing by going along with that as well.

FakeGod's intro is giving me +traitor vibes.

Niche detail, but in the game Bug can actually get caught by Say You're Human even though roles can still misdiagnose them as Human. Personally, I see it as a psychological slip in-universe, the Bug knows what they are and ultimately doesn't perceive themself to be Human.

Also, I agree about FG, 3p hunting is more of a scum concern than a town one.

VOTE: FakeGod

[Roden]

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

I can confirm that this did not come from me.

Wait, really? I assumed skills had to be stated in-thread.

I guess it's obvious that I didn't cause the vote change either. I'll leave it up to whoever activated it to come forward if they wish. I do think it's +crew to use it now though, since Gnosia would want to use it more strategically I think.

[Roden]

Why do you think so?

[Roden]

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

I can confirm that this did not come from me.

Wait, really? I assumed skills had to be stated in-thread.

I guess it's obvious that I didn't cause the vote change either. I'll leave it up to whoever activated it to come forward if they wish. I do think it's +crew to use it now though, since Gnosia would want to use it more strategically I think.

my ability is activated by DMing the mod

Huh, alright, I guess a mix of both makes sense. Mine is in-thread.

[Roden]

While those are fair points, Gnosia could also save it for later to secure a potential quick hammer. And I do think it's helpful that everyone will be forced to show their hand early and vote instead of just claiming FoS on certain slots.

If the user is town, then yes they probably should've waited. But I do think that crew is more likely to use it now, especially after the conversation about tracking FoS/vote intents happened.

[Roden]

I think NM didn't use ability and just bait reactions.

Not_Mafia_15

[Roden]

Fucking nice, let's get spicy

[Roden]

That said, Doctor (not Guardian Angel) should claim as well

[Roden]

No wait it makes sense because there's no roleblocker

Not really.

I didn't want to claim, because characters could had roleblockers.

I would be shocked if character skills could affect night actions and not just affect Day play.

[Roden]

Kinda annoying if that's actually true when we had the option to pick characters

Spoiler: Game story spoilers

I could maybe see Stella having the ability to lock people in their room (Roleblock), or Kukrushka having a kill option (Vig)

[Roden]

That said, Doctor (not Guardian Angel) should claim as well

I disagree.

GA can't protect both me and Doctor.

If an Engineer or Doctor claim dies during the night, then the other claim is confscum. Unless 3 or more claim a role, then yeah that's dicier. But with your situation, if the claims remain between only you two, the real Engineer won't be killed without Gnosia also taking a loss. Doctor claims also can't be 100% trusted Day 2 onward, even if no one CC's.

Atm though I do believe your claim more than NK15's.

[Roden]

Atm though I do believe your claim more than NK15's.

That's interesting.
I see Enchant as the most scummy player in this list - independently from the lockscum(for me) claim.
Enchant is trying to be helpful and gives advice on mechanics. At the start of Day 1.
Does this sound like Town Enchant to you?

Yes, actually.

viewtopic.php?t=89933&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[Roden]

If you think unhelpful!Enchant = town!Enchant, I'm sorry to inform you that that's just incorrect and you got burned by lack of WIM.

[Roden]

If you think unhelpful!Enchant = town!Enchant, I'm sorry to inform you that that's just incorrect and you got burned by lack of WIM in a previous game.

EBWOP

[Roden]

I think NK15 is more likely to be the real cop, but I wonder if we need to eliminate between the cop claims at all.

Why are people saying roles cannot be confirmed after day 1?

We do have a coroner, after all.

Let's say Person X is the Doctor. If we wait for them to claim but it then gets to the point that we need to start seeing some Doctor results, we might ask the Doctor to step forward, maybe three days have gone by at this point. If Gnosia happens to kill the Doctor on Night 1/2/3, no one would know. And the longer that goes on, the greater chance that scum or 3p can safely fake claim with no one to oppose them.

The only way to confirm the Doctor is to either have them claim D1 with no CC or have their results match up with a confirmed Engineer, who themself can only be confirmed with a D1 claim with no CC, or if they target the Bug during a Night phase where two people die.

That said, Doctor (not Guardian Angel) should claim as well

Why? I read your 116 and I still do not understand.

What don't you understand? If Gnosia try to CC a Crewmate who's true claiming Engineer or Doctor, and then that Crewmate ends up dead, we know the other player is fake claiming and is a bad guy. Keep in mind that the Bug can't be NK'd, so anyone who dies at night (and wasn't targeted by an Engineer) is always definitely Human.

There is a chance that in a 1v1 role claim that it could be Crew vs AC Follower, and if the AC Follower is killed then it could frame the real Crewmate as a bad guy. I don't think that's particularly likely to happen though and is a much less dangerous situation than a potential unopposed late Doctor claim.

[Roden]

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

this is wild

no neutral tier ?

The middle bloc???

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}

there is no middle bloc!

I am the Engineer!

I believe it.

consider me unconvinced of either of them

Do you mean that you're not sure who to believe, or that you don't think either of them are the Engineer?

[Roden]

Roden, I'm feeling like a lot of your posts are leading with flavor expertise. I get the impression this is a setup that excites you because of it but I do think your #76 is a bit of a reach. I think FG's behavior is null yet your flavor leanings made it out to be a bigger deal than it was.

I am excited to play this set up, the game actually got me into playing forum mafia.

Can you explain what you mean by 76 being a reach though? The part where I talk about flavor is separate from my read on FG, I don't have any flavor reasons for scum reading them. My vote on them is because they entered the thread worried about the 3p when the Bug shouldn't be much of a concern for us yet.

[Roden]

NK15 on purpose had almost zero of interaction with other people (just vague posts), so it's clearly, he is pawn to be sacrificed to reveal me.

This isn't a good argument, the game just started. It's almost impossible for them to have had any real interactions with the player list at the time of claiming.

[Roden]

NK15 on purpose had almost zero of interaction with other people (just vague posts), so it's clearly, he is pawn to be sacrificed to reveal me.

This isn't a good argument, the game just started. It's almost impossible for them to have had any real interactions with the player list at the time of claiming.

this might be a worse argument! surely he could have if he didn't do it on his 4th post

Yes...? I don't disagree. The argument is that NK15 is a pawn with zero interaction, I don't think that makes sense as an accusation when the game just started.

[Roden]

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

this is wild

no neutral tier ?

The middle bloc???

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}

there is no middle bloc!

I am the Engineer!

I believe it.

consider me unconvinced of either of them

Do you mean that you're not sure who to believe, or that you don't think either of them are the Engineer?

Can you answer this?

[Roden]

Spoiler: For convenience

NK15 on purpose had almost zero of interaction with other people (just vague posts), so it's clearly, he is pawn to be sacrificed to reveal me.

This isn't a good argument, the game just started. It's almost impossible for them to have had any real interactions with the player list at the time of claiming.

this might be a worse argument! surely he could have if he didn't do it on his 4th post

Yes...? I don't disagree. The argument is that NK15 is a pawn with zero interaction, I don't think that makes sense as an accusation when the game just started.

so we do disagree, I think he definitely could have, just as most players in the game had up to that point. his play was leading up to a claim from the jump.

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

this is wild

no neutral tier ?

The middle bloc???

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}

there is no middle bloc!

I am the Engineer!

I believe it.

consider me unconvinced of either of them

Do you mean that you're not sure who to believe, or that you don't think either of them are the Engineer?

Can you answer this?

the latter, i don't see any reason to believe either of them.

NK15 definitely could have waited and posted more first. That's the part I don't disagree with and is part of why I don't believe his claim. I'm saying it's not a good argument for Enchant to accuse him of zero interaction when it's his 4th post and it's the beginning of the game.

If you don't believe either of them, then doesn't that mean the real Engineer just isn't claiming? If that's your argument, then shouldn't we vote them out first? I don't think it's impossible, but I'd like to know your thought process here.

[Roden]

Roden, I'm feeling like a lot of your posts are leading with flavor expertise. I get the impression this is a setup that excites you because of it but I do think your #76 is a bit of a reach. I think FG's behavior is null yet your flavor leanings made it out to be a bigger deal than it was.

I am excited to play this set up, the game actually got me into playing forum mafia.

Can you explain what you mean by 76 being a reach though? The part where I talk about flavor is separate from my read on FG, I don't have any flavor reasons for scum reading them. My vote on them is because they entered the thread worried about the 3p when the Bug shouldn't be much of a concern for us yet.

Your #76 starts with flavor info which then wraps around to FG being 3P because reasons. I only assumed those reasons were because of the flavor context you provided, because you were responding to Marashu that you agreed with them.

That's definitely not supposed to read like the first line break is the same thought process as the second line break. They're two entirely different thoughts responding to two entirely different thoughts in Marashu's post.

[Roden]

I still stand by what I said about your flavor leanings even if I misinterpreted a bit. You were talking about the Bug which is 3P so two in two got put together. Do you think having said flavor knowledge (and sharing it) is beneficial? Bare in mind that any flavor you talk towards me will be tuned out.

Will admit, been a bit tiresome to read as a whole. Don't feel like it's helping me win the mafia game but hey

I figured everything I was saying about the game was relevant since some of the mech interactions aren't straightforward

[Roden]

What don't you understand?

I understand your fears about uncontested late town PR claims, but I don't think the town would be naive enough to give them a free pass.

I worry that if we follow your plan and have the doctor claim, mafia does not cc and simply just shoots the doc tonight, leaving rest of the power roles vulnerable.

Obviously the town won't be naive, that isn't my issue here. Claims past D1 just have less and less value due to becoming riskier to trust while also keeping valuable information away from us. This set up can be solved from Engineer and Doctor results alone, I've done that well over a hundred times. Being able to play against and read actual living players and not AI just makes it easier.

If the Doctor claims and does not get CC'd, then the Guardian Angel protects them tonight. Gnosia won't kill within the Engineer claims because it's not only a bad trade for them (unless only Bug fake claimed and no one else, which is a game throwing play so very unlikely), they also lose out on their only weapon against the Bug. Engineer can find Gnosia, yes, but they also auto kill the Bug.

It's entirely possible that Gnosia just play this poorly and do what you're trying to warn us of, but I don't see how it hurts us if they decide to play poorly.

[Roden]

But I do think that crew is more likely to use it now, especially after the conversation about tracking FoS/vote intents happened.

it is like

hard for me to see the usage being wholly unrelated to my conversation with autere would be a weird coincidence et cetera

(also makes me maybe a little ! towards autere but hard to see how that would have come together as like a PLAN ya know so probably paranoia)

but it feels odd that a town wouldn't just claim it after using it or even ask the thread before doing so ya know

like is there any benefit to not revealing that information if the user is town?

I had that in mind as well but didn't want to say it out loud at the time, like "if you're town then claim this ability" lol. I figure if they claim it on their own then they're a bit more trustworthy than if I give them an incentive to do so. The more time goes by without a claim, the less townie it feels to me.

If it ever gets to a point that we want to find them ourselves, we can PoE them later down the road.

[Roden]

why would u ?

Why would a town player counterclaim a cop claim?

why would a town player fake a cop claim?

...They wouldn't. The Cop claims aren't TvT. Or at least they shouldn't be, holy shit.

[Roden]

Can we talk about the differences in our reads lists a little bit?

If I believed your reasons were genuine, I would. I don't, sorry.

160 is not a real cop, I've the exact opposite read on it as you and your take feels faked.

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere}
{JunkoChan, shiki, Jessica Rabbit}
{Roden}
{Scoliosis, Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

Why is Scoliosis center null in your reads?

[Roden]

Why is Scoliosis center null in your reads?

Because he's null still.
I don't believe his takes are sincere; I'm ambivalent if it's scum or insincere-town.

I might be leaning town, but I don't feel engaging Scoliosis on all reads would be productive.

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere, shiki}
{JunkoChan, Jessica Rabbit, Roden}
{Scoliosis}
{Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

What motive does town have in making insincere reads??

This feels like a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

Kinda?
It's explicitly stating an undefined read on Klick (which counts as 'absolutely nothing'), and giving the reasons

why

the read isn't defined.

Ranger's sorting doesn't seem very natural and I think Elmo could be placed here for distancing.

Try voting Elmo and see what I do.

VOTE: Elmo

[Roden]

I have used it already...

I don't believe you.

Doesn't matter. Quote my post, and affirm. Now.

I think you should make it clear that everyone needs to do so if your ability is real.

[Roden]

I feel like people often get caught up in how

easy

something is to fake to the neglect of considering how likely a scum is to

choose

to fake something

I think there's a ton of scumhunting potential in figuring out what kind of people players are, how they're likely to make decisions, especially because lots of people have a much narrower range of behaviour than is usually expected when playing Mafia

But like, that's just my opinion, man

Heavily agree with this post on principle alone. Looking at motivation behind a decision or choice of words is is the best way to read certain players if they aren't a straight forward read.

[Roden]

What motive does town have in making insincere reads??

You've played with mastina; you should know.
She's not alone in forced reasons/faked confidence.
It's a valid tactic especially earlygame for generating a higher volume of valuable content.
VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

Fair point.

[Roden]

Ok. My ability was activated.... and although it isn't strictly one-shot it is de-facto.
What my ability does is to inform Gnosia about their chances to get caught in a lie...
which means that the Gnosia have the information that my ability is real and the rest of the players has not.

What my ability does NOT do is to actually detect lies. That's probably someone else.

Which means it's mainly a TMI trap.

so why you decided to out this now?

Well, people

were

pestering him to do so.

Regardless of his alignment, I think the claim is true. It sounds more balanced than being able to just use RNG to catch Gnosia. I'd say whoever claimed to be Human is likely to be town, but if he isn't AC or Bug but is Gnosia, he could've talked about using his ability to try to clear his buddies during the pre-game.

My main concern is that he should've done a roll call or really just anything to try to get everyone to participate. Right now his ability is mostly ineffective.

[Roden]

I'm thinking about the odds of Crew/Gnosia/AC/Bug I think he's just AC here. Crew would want to use the skill effectively and make it clear it only works if everyone participates, maybe even trying to appeal to those with flavor knowledge since they would understand how OP the skill usually is. Gnosia would use it to clear allies and make the ability seem more believable. AC probably quickly realizes that it can backfire and make his allies look suspicious if they don't answer, so cutting it off short is the better play. Bug wants all of the Gnosia to get caught ASAP, so he would want it to play out and hope the Gnosia get caught.

So yeah, I think AC makes the most sense in this situation.

[Roden]

VC 1.2

narrow parking (3): Enchant, Marashu, Not Known 15
Elmo TeH AzN (2): JunkoChan, Ranger
JunkoChan (1): Klick
shiki (1): narrow parking
FakeGod (1): Roden
Ranger (1): Scoliosis
Not Known 15 (1): Autere

Not voting: (6) Jessica Rabbit, Elmo TeH AzN, Yume, FakeGod, shiki, Not Known 15

Deadline is in (expired on 2022-12-16 04:39:24)

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 to fade away

My vote should be on Elmo. In case it helps:

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Elmo

[Roden]

Is the YOUR in your post the actual correct spelling because, shouldn’t it be “YOU’RE”?

The spelling is not a mistake.

Can you explain this?

[Roden]

Bah.

I was hoping NK15 would be a traitor.

Town and traitor must true-claim to my ability - Bug and groupscum can lie.

What exactly did you do?

[Roden]

I'm struggling to understand NK15's "State Your Human" plan coming from another other than a Traitor with how ineffectively he used it.

[Roden]

I'm struggling to understand NK15's "State Your Human" plan coming from anything other other than a Traitor due to how ineffectively he used it.

EBWOP

[Roden]

Well. Everyone reacted, so i can admit.

I am not Engineer.

That was fakeclaim.

VOTE: Engineer

[Roden]

I'm struggling to understand NK15's "State Your Human" plan coming from another other than a Traitor with how ineffectively he used it.

Agreed, which is why I asked him to trueclaim his role.

My ability only works on town and traitor. Mafia and Bug can lie.

With only one real claim at this point, I can only guess that he just misplayed his ability.

[Roden]

I'm not asking you all to be brain surgeons but I really am fucking perplexed that the front of discussion has been what it is. The start of this game was NK15 claiming engineer in the most hackneyed way by intentionally misspelling his apparent ability, which he then (unprompted) claims Engineer of all fucking things. This causes Enchant to CC, and my initial thought is that 'ok, so Enchant is likely real because he didn't want to out like a sensible person' but ho ho ho I thought it was supposed to be December but you could've fooled me that it was April with how much fucking jokes have been played. Excuse me for being skeptical about FakeGod's ability when we've already seen what's happened prior. So what else is going on? Meandering discussion that amounts to nothing but setup analysis and flavor wank that is

tonally daft and boring

it's like I'm being educated about Gnosia and if I wanted to do that I would've played the fucking game. Please for the love of god can we get some nuance in here. The thread is bone-dry with surface level takes it makes me want to participate with a coma than this shitshow.

I understand your frustration, I'm annoyed at the fake CC and people just blowing their abilities early and giving us useless information.

However even though you don't like the mech and flavor talk, it kinda just comes with the set up. We don't get info from flips unless we discuss mech, and the mod clearly wanted this set up to be even more mech heavy than it already naturally was by giving literally everyone unique abilities. I'm slowly realizing that this turned out to be a role madness game in disguise, and I think that's something you need to keep in mind here.

[Roden]

IMO get shiki first for pointing out tpr tell in a game without daytalk. 464

Explanation for their behavior is lamist because it's basically an excuse of "trying to generate information." 498

I don't think that's Bug indicative. The fastest route to winning as Bug is to vote out all of the Gnosia ASAP, they only want to scum side if it increases their chances of winning.

I get the thought process of "Ranger is crumbing VT, that's weird", though turns out it was a crumb for something else entirely. Clearing that up is useful and personally helps me solidify my town reads there.

Right now I'm feeling good about Junko, Scoliosis, Shiki, and Ranger. NK15 felt off to me but he's conftown now.

[Roden]

Enchant, why did you do that?

Also, 474 is pretty damn ai.

in your eyes, is that human or gnosia

I feel like there is a story left untold here.

I think I'm going with +Gnosia on that one I can buy frustration and boredom if this was like day 3-4 and we are still talking about mech but this is page 22 in a large.. but I don't know enough about Autere to be sure if this is AI or not

It isn't the first time it happened, Autere's been complaining since almost the beginning of the game. I think it's genuine but NAI.

[Roden]

IMO get shiki first for pointing out tpr tell in a game without daytalk. 464

Explanation for their behavior is lamist because it's basically an excuse of "trying to generate information." 498

I don't think that's Bug indicative. The fastest route to winning as Bug is to vote out all of the Gnosia ASAP, they only want to scum side if it increases their chances of winning.

I get the thought process of "Ranger is crumbing VT, that's weird", though turns out it was a crumb for something else entirely. Clearing that up is useful and personally helps me solidify my town reads there.

Right now I'm feeling good about Junko, Scoliosis, Shiki, and Ranger. NK15 felt off to me but he's conftown now.

I guarantee you that most or all of what I've been saying about shiki has gone over your head.

I understand what your points are, I just don't agree. Your case is built on Shiki pointing out a potential VT crumb, if I'm understanding it correctly. I don't think the premise of "Shiki pointing out VT crumb = Bug" is correct, you would have to convince me why a Bug specifically would do that.

[Roden]

I understand what your points are, I just don't agree.

540 and 557 indicate to me that you understand and disagree with exactly one of the points I made (shiki pointing out vt crumbs is extremely anti town in a setup without day talk) and you did not understand the points I made following that.

I'd like some further clarification then.

Shiki fos. Their reaction continues to be terrible (530)

This doesn't tell me much, I don't know why you think her reaction looks terrible.

still don’t get what you think is terrible about my reaction nor what you’re even bugreading me for in the first place since you agree with me

but eh

I think you keep stating this over and over again as a way to actively avoid the issues I clearly explained in 519, which have nothing to do with whether or not you are the bug.

This is just confbias, it only serves as a point if I agree with the argument "pointing out VT crumb = Bug", which I don't. It's what I mean when I say the premise of your case relies on something I just don't think is correct. If there's something else I'm missing then you'll have to quote it.

[Roden]

@Scoliosis

Shiki is the bug I think?

i am not though i am interested in your reasoning

(unless you’re gnosia in which case sure shoot me and find out)

VOTE: shiki

You know why..

After you make this post, you start casing her further. You don't walk back the Bug accusation at any point. There is zero reason for me to believe you're not casing her as the Bug.

still don’t get what you think is terrible about my reaction nor what you’re even bugreading me for in the first place since you agree with me

but eh

I think you keep stating this over and over again as a way to actively avoid the issues I clearly explained in 519, which have nothing to do with whether or not you are the bug.

This here just turns into a general suspicion towards Shiki, and I already gave my take on post 519.

I understand what your points are, I just don't agree.

540 and 557 indicate to me that you understand and disagree with exactly one of the points I made (shiki pointing out vt crumbs is extremely anti town in a setup without day talk) and you did not understand the points I made following that.

This is the only point where you call the VT crumb thing anti-town, and it's after I already made it clear that I think that you're casing Shiki as the Bug. And even then you still don't make it clear that you don't think Shiki is the Bug anymore. You never actually say that and you're just assuming that I'm not taking anything you say in good faith, when the problem is that your follow up posts to your "Shiki is Bug" post don't explicitly say otherwise.

[Roden]

Hey fakegod, considering this is a follow-the-cop game where scum have no day chat for tpr hunting, I thought it might be especially pro town of me if I pointed out that I noticed you are probably a vt. I encourage everyone to voice in on this so we can "generate" some "information."

Don't mind me, just engaging in regular pro town behavior.

Right now i am motivated by pressuring narrow so he claims he is Not Engineer, so he won't pull claim from his ass if/after NK15 die.

i would be fine with everyone claiming everything today but everytime i’ve suggested that day one in the past there was a lot of pushback i think people find it to be Not Fun which is fine i get it

i

what do you

make of klick

seemingly being unaware that gnosia don’t have daytalk

while discussing what elmo would be likely/unlikely to fake as mafia

ie do you think klick would be likely to fake this as mafia

/

cheeky enough to do so while talking about what mafia would be likely to fake?

question also open to others i suppose

do you

make anything of

ranger basically claiming vanilla town?

do you

make anything of

ranger basically claiming vanilla town?

Why would you point this out?

would rather discuss it with regards to ranger alignment than ignore

it is like, if ranger town, sure mafia might have missed it though not very likely

but if ranger mafia, town might have missed and she might be able to claim later et cetera

and also like, ranger good investigation target because of claim

and it seemed odd to me that ranger would make that post outside of potential wifom and if the purpose is wifom then discussing adds to anyway, so

;

do you make anything of it?

Can you fucking stop throwing a fit

This isn't even remotely the same thing and is genuinely just anti-town behavior

[Roden]

Shiki I don't think they're gonna understand why Doctor needs to claim now until it's too late AKA tomorrow when it finally sets in what a flipless setup means

[Roden]

Shiki I don't think they're gonna understand why Doctor needs to claim now until it's too late AKA tomorrow when it finally sets in what a flipless setup means

idk feel like my thoughts on mech / claims and such have done little other than create a mess even if i still think they make sense so i’m probably just going to focus on finding a mafia when i wake up and hope anyone who has any questions / doubts with regards to me takes me up on my offer to talk / be sorted in whatever way

That's probably the only thing we can do tbh. I think everything you've said WRT mech makes sense and is the most effective way to play this set up, I just don't think most people will understand that if they don't have experience with this set up/the game beforehand.

What are your reads looking like right now?

[Roden]

If Gnosia tries to fake claim being the Doctor, the real Doctor needs to step forward.

[Roden]

Gonna spoiler each quote I'm responding to for ease of reading.

Spoiler:

Shiki I don't think they're gonna understand why Doctor needs to claim now until it's too late AKA tomorrow when it finally sets in what a flipless setup means

idk feel like my thoughts on mech / claims and such have done little other than create a mess even if i still think they make sense so i’m probably just going to focus on finding a mafia when i wake up and hope anyone who has any questions / doubts with regards to me takes me up on my offer to talk / be sorted in whatever way

That's probably the only thing we can do tbh. I think everything you've said WRT mech makes sense and is the most effective way to play this set up, I just don't think most people will understand that if they don't have experience with this set up/the game beforehand.

What are your reads looking like right now?

i don't really know how to weigh some of the things against eachother but will go slot by slot and compile thoughts

i think part of the difficulty is that some of the things are based on a very low volume of posts;

like my main thought with regards to marashu is that marashu felt like present in a towny way very early in the game but that wasn't really maintained and little else; don't know what to make of recent posts

I agree with this. I keep thinking "Marashu is dropping off a bit, that feels suspicious", but also every time I glace through their ISO I don't really see anything I dislike. Tonally I think they feel townie enough that I don't want ever want them voted out today.

Spoiler:

for scoliosis it is like,

doesn't always feels like scoliosis believes in push but like i said earlier could just be a playstyle thing

like it's very hard to tell the difference between

exaggerated because scoliosis feels that is best way to present thoughts to sort whoever is on receiving end

and

missing on trying to have the right amount of conviction

but because it's consistent willing to give benefit of doubt and say that it's playstyle

have thought a few times that scoliosis could be like, reapplying things from the thread to other situations - my saying scoliosis may have been doing something with the sole purpose of generating content -> scoliosis then saying that my explaining why i was asking about ranger's claim was me falsely saying i was trying to generate content for example - but it is like, do mafia really do that sort of thing very often? probably not

The vibe I've been getting is that Scoliosis is theory crafting mid-conversation and leaving out the connections between thought processes. I can kinda see how that would look like a lack of conviction, but I'm seeing it more him being very "in the moment" when talking to people and not really taking other people's perspectives into account. IMO he's either Crew or Bug, because I don't think Gnosia or AC fake short-sightedness like that especially this early into the game. He'd be my pick for an Engineer check, but I wouldn't want to vote him out.

Spoiler:

for roden it is like,

want to check if you were in radio buzz when i talked to galron about like my views on people facilitating communication at some length

but even if so probably unfair of me to not view as +town as i usually do even if you were aware

(you were but eh)

think the thoughts on autere's complaining / enchant's helpfulness felt somewhat towny

I didn't realize you were in that game actually. I think I know which alt was yours now, but yeah I didn't make any connection between that game and this one until just now.

Spoiler:

i dunno if like

the feeling that elmo is timetraveling is greatly lessened by elmo being aware and apologizing for jumping around the thread,

still don't really follow elmo's fakegod read,

I was confused for a moment what you meant by time traveling; I forgot that they were stuck on the first nine pages for like three days and then went on VLA. Their ISO makes me think they're almost completely disengaged from the game, mainly only popping in to defend themself.

The Fakegod read and the Ranger read in 330 vibe like TMI to me.

Spoiler:

freedom's questions with regards to abilities still seem odd to me but recent posts have felt okay even if possibly prompted by scoliosis's 'real thoughts' post

want to note scoliosis's dismissiveness towards freedom when compared to other interactions

Tbh I was going to make almost the exact same criticism towards Freedom that Scoliosis made (too many questions and not enough reading or gameplay), I think it's just genuine irritation.

Spoiler:

junkochan has felt very town to me and thus my inclination to ask her thoughts on things i was having trouble weighing,

dunno if i can put a lot of words to this but i am often looking for like

a pillar or whatever and junkochan was my most confident town

Agreed, I feel like Junko and I both keep reaching the same conclusions.

Spoiler:

'claim and counterclaim are both town if one of them dies during the night' is a pretty funny take

though i also thought there was a decent chance both were town and maybe even more so now

enchant obviously excited by the format here and thus the preplanned counterclaim and such,

post following reveal of not the engineer about preventing counterclaims seemed good and logical

though rescinding of claim coming shortly after fakegod use of ability and me asking about a second shot makes me a little uneasy

as if traitor and fakegod truthful enchant could still get found out potentially

but also traitor still a miss and i don't currently think traitor more likely than town anyway

and rescinding could very simply have been because didn't want the guardian angel to not know who to save based on later enchant comments, which would be some of the benefit of a mafia counterclaim anyway which enchant worked to prevent, so!

since not known 15 had already claimed et cetera

A part of me really wants to town read Enchant for the fake CC and the thought process behind it. I think as long as he can get confirmed by NK15 that he isn't Gnosia or Bug, then even if he is Traitor I think he ultimately town sided and shouldn't be voted out.

Spoiler:

still have that tingly feeling with regards to autere talking about tracking fos votes and then someone using an ability that made day 1 an actual vote

I'm not asking you all to be brain surgeons but I really am fucking perplexed that the front of discussion has been what it is. The start of this game was NK15 claiming engineer in the most hackneyed way by intentionally misspelling his apparent ability, which he then (unprompted) claims Engineer of all fucking things. This causes Enchant to CC, and my initial thought is that 'ok, so Enchant is likely real because he didn't want to out like a sensible person' but ho ho ho I thought it was supposed to be December but you could've fooled me that it was April with how much fucking jokes have been played. Excuse me for being skeptical about FakeGod's ability when we've already seen what's happened prior. So what else is going on? Meandering discussion that amounts to nothing but setup analysis and flavor wank that is

tonally daft and boring

it's like I'm being educated about Gnosia and if I wanted to do that I would've played the fucking game. Please for the love of god can we get some nuance in here. The thread is bone-dry with surface level takes it makes me want to participate with a coma than this shitshow.

and i don't really like

understand why this post exists? / feels like,

like isn't the solution simply to interact with posts that aren't 'educating you about gnosia' and to interact with those who are about other things,

i guess i feel like,

like,

like there was not a dearth of posts outside of this umbrella autere could have easily posted about instead

same as with the vote counting thing like instead of doing so stated that it should be done, instead of doing so with regards to content not about source material stated that others should provide it,

and i don't know if being so seemingly upset with that tracks

Call me nostradamus but I predict NK15 will retract as well. I'm not very happy about this but I'm biting my tongue for the sanctity of the thread

though i thought this numerous times

and i don't really have any basis from which to judge if being so upset about something like this instead of doing something about it is actually alignment indicative

so guess i would like others' thoughts on this

I have complicated thoughts here. Originally I had a knee jerk reaction when they told me to shut up about flavor and I thought it was scummy, but I bit my tongue because I was worried that maybe I was being annoying. Complaining about flavor and mech talk again later on is kind of consistent, but I noticed it too that they weren't really doing much to change what was bothering them about the game. 268 bothers me in hindsight because it's just more of them complaining without doing anything about it, like they shade me for not giving out more reads on more players, but they don't vote me or confront me on it. Additionally they just kinda dipped out of the game over the last few days, but it feels like an unconvincing rage quit.

468 seems like the same assumption Narrow has been making, idk why multiple people are expecting a double Engineer fake claim. I think Autere having no reaction to most of the player list believing the claim is very off, if nothing else.

[Roden]

In that, I feel like his opposition to Coroner claiming feels like he wants to scum to have less NK choices.

How would Coroner claiming mean scum have less NK choices?

[Roden]

In that, I feel like his opposition to Coroner claiming feels like he wants to scum to have less NK choices.

How would Coroner claiming mean scum have less NK choices?

Because it becomes protect the coroner and scum would be aiming for the doc then.

In that, I feel like his opposition to Coroner claiming feels like he wants to scum to have less NK choices.

How would Coroner claiming mean scum have less NK choices?

Similar reasons to Elmo but mainly so the scum doesn't get to choose between NKing the Engineer and Doctor.
Especially since both can't be protected by the GA.

I keep forgetting that most of you don't understand the set up

I'll bring this conversation up again tomorrow

[Roden]

answer the question

claim all characters?

yay
nay
shut up

Forgot to respond to this. I'm in favor of a compromise where people who use their character skill should claim their character. It would help to confirm that the skill matches their character in some way.

[Roden]

Man it's almost like I told people to play the game/look up gameplay back in the queue thread because it would be helpful to understand how to play in this set up

[Roden]

Can soneone who's anti-claim explain how exactly you expect us to have Doctor results if they don't step forward today and we can't trust Doctor claims Day 2 onward

[Roden]

Because flipping our elimination choices in a flipless game let's us who know who's on the right track, who needs to reassess, and who has a scummy agenda.

Do you not care about Coroner results?

[Roden]

Of course it's useful, but if Coroner claims today as you advocate, then he dies tonight and we get zero Coroner results anyway.

Why would they die tonight?

Can you tell me who said that we expect us to have Coroner results?

I don't get what you're asking here, can you reword this?

[Roden]

Who do you think Mafia is going to shoot tonight if there's a Cop claim and a Coroner claim?

I'm not gonna answer you if you're just going to respond to a question with another question.

Why do you believe the Coroner dies tonight if they claim?

[Roden]

I apologize, Roden. I'm frustrated that you are not seeing what I'm seeing, so I'm going to try to explain my thoughts as clearly as I can.

I think Coroner will be shot if he claims because out of the two claimed roles (Cop and Coroner), Guardian Angel will likely protect the Cop because it is a much stronger role. Therefore, Mafia will shoot the Coroner who will have no protection.

You're assuming that:

1) Doctor doesn't get CC'd

2) Gnosia would prefer to play in a game state with four confirmed crew (Engineer, Doctor, Guard Duty) while we play Follow The Cop

3) Gnosia see Doctor as a bigger threat than hunting for the GA

4) The entire Gnosia team doesn't understand the set up and play this extremely suboptimally

If you actually think all of the above is true...then what is the issue? If Doctor isn't CC'd and gets killed tonight, that's an extra day that we can play Follow The Cop. And if it's confirmed that the Gnosia team don't know how to play this set up, then it greatly reduces the PoE for the Engineer to check people at night while also reducing the PoE for us to scum hunt during the Day.

[Roden]

You're assuming that:

1) Doctor doesn't get CC'd

2) Gnosia would prefer to play in a game state with four confirmed crew (Engineer, Doctor, Guard Duty) while we play Follow The Cop

3) Gnosia see Doctor as a bigger threat than hunting for the GA

4) The entire Gnosia team doesn't understand the set up and play this extremely suboptimally.

I just don't see why mafia would bother CC'ing Coroner or "play in a game state with four confirms", when they can just shoot the Coroner.

I think mafia would kill un CC'd Coroner over hunting for GA. They have a 1/9 shot of hitting GA (14 players remaining tonight, 3 of them scum, 1 cop claim, 1 Coroner claim), and 100% of killing the Coroner who is not counterclaimed and is publicly known to be town.

Your last point makes an assumption that your way of playing this setup is the optimal way. Perhaps you can show me in postgame why, but I unfortunately fail to see your points.

If Gnosia don't CC the Doctor, we are playing with four conftown.

If they shoot the Doctor, then the Engineer either gets a red check and we're down to 3 conftown vs 2 scum, or the Engineer gets another green check and we're back to 4 conftown. Either scenario is auto win for town. Gnosia will never know if the GA is dead because they can't claim and we don't have flips, so we can essentially do this over and over every single day.

My way of playing the set up isn't necessarily optimal, it's just...

literally

, how you're supposed play the set up. The game this set up is based on explicitly teaches this.

Your argument doesn't make any sense at this point. You're arguing that it's bad if scum put us in auto win for free. You're arguing that Doctor shouldn't claim today because they'll just die, but also Doctor can't claim Day 2 onward because we'll just vote them out since we can't trust them. You've all but claimed that we should just ignore the Doctor, a pivotal role that is a central mechanic in this set up, because you don't understand the set up and don't think anyone should listen to the people who do have experience with the set up.

[Roden]

OK.

Can the Doctor please step forward?

[Roden]

A person unvoting after they replace in is pretty normal.

Only major thing that's happened so far is that NK15 and Enchant both claimed Engineer, but Enchant withdrew his claim. So NK15 is confirmed to be Engineer as of now.

[Roden]

Ok? That isn't abnormal either.

[Roden]

Scum are probably fine with the current game state. Doctor isn't claiming, replacements aren't saying much, and the leading wagons are kinda stalled.

I'd like if we could get some harder stances on Narrow vs Elmo. I still really prefer Elmo and idk why their play isn't being more scrutinized.

[Roden]

Btw, it should be evident by now that the Doctor not claiming is good for scum, otherwise they'd fake claim by now it if it would put them in a favorable position.

[Roden]

Scum are probably fine with the current game state. Doctor isn't claiming, replacements aren't saying much, and the leading wagons are kinda stalled.

I'd like if we could get some harder stances on Narrow vs Elmo. I still really prefer Elmo and idk why their play isn't being more scrutinized.

hm why narrow parking vs elmo?

like why marashu excluded from this?

do you think stalled marashu wagon means marashu town?

like i took my vote off because i wasn’t going to be around for a long time and i didn’t want marashu to be eliminated in the meantime especially since marashu stated they were putting a lot of work into upcoming post and i would feel bad if that work were to be wasted

but i could easily put it back

Mainly just because their wagon died. I think they're crew, partially just from reading their content but also because they got a lot of votes pretty quickly despite the game state showing no real bloodlust otherwise. They were more of a counter wagon than a main one anyway, and I think that showed with the wagon losing momentum pretty quickly.

Additionally, Mara putting in effort to claim and (hopefully) put out a reads list is more effort than anything Elmo's giving us.

[Roden]

Scum are probably fine with the current game state. Doctor isn't claiming, replacements aren't saying much, and the leading wagons are kinda stalled.

I'd like if we could get some harder stances on Narrow vs Elmo. I still really prefer Elmo and idk why their play isn't being more scrutinized.

hm why narrow parking vs elmo?

like why marashu excluded from this?

do you think stalled marashu wagon means marashu town?

like i took my vote off because i wasn’t going to be around for a long time and i didn’t want marashu to be eliminated in the meantime especially since marashu stated they were putting a lot of work into upcoming post and i would feel bad if that work were to be wasted

but i could easily put it back

Mainly just because their wagon died. I think they're crew, partially just from reading their content but also because they got a lot of votes pretty quickly despite the game state showing no real bloodlust otherwise. They were more of a counter wagon than a main one anyway, and I think that showed with the wagon losing momentum pretty quickly.

Additionally, Mara putting in effort to claim and (hopefully) put out a reads list is more effort than anything Elmo's giving us.

wait

do you think any of those ‘a lot of votes pretty quickly’ on marashu came from non-towns?

(but true enough on the potential effort)

I think Enchant's vote adds up if I'm right that he's the AC Follower. Searching "Marashu" in his ISO doesn't bring up anything that explains the vote, and from a meta perspective I doubt he would give up the only opportunity he has this game to hammer someone to instead sit in the middle of someone's wagon. Not unless he's genuinely trying to make the correct play, which again isn't indicated by anything in his ISO.

[Roden]

hmhmhm

kinda feel like enchant voted just because not known 15 and wagoning

but hm

eh evaluating enchant’s likelihood of being the ac follower when we don’t necessarily want to kill the ac follower feels kinda meh but i’ll think more about it

but it’s not like ac follower enchant would know if marashu was gnosia or not anyway

Yeah, AC doesn't know who's who but still doesn't want to vote out anyone they think could be Gnosia.

I think Narrow signalling to scum that he thinks we are both town.

I know no reason why town would say that.

Elmo blatantly avoids this game for some reason actually.

Are you saying that they're in their town range right now?

It's opposite. I don't see reason why Elmo would lurk on purpose.

Enchant seems to scum read the other leading wagons but blank votes Mara instead. It's just not really a wagon I agree with.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Marashu

Come back to the game Mara.

[Roden]

It sounds like a skill Gina learns later in the game, Don't Be Fooled, so I think it's legit.

[Roden]

The only other option I really want is Elmo, and barring a green check there isn't any reason we can't just vote them out tomorrow instead if Marashu has more traction today.

[Roden]

As for your ability, it might be good to holster for now.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elmo

This is what I wanted in the first place so I'm good with this. Drapion stepped up to the level of towniness I saw in Mara and I'd rather have him over an inactive slot, yes I can't believe I'm saying that either.

Reading the past 12 pages has been painful btw.

[Roden]

Shiki, who do you want besides Jessica?

[Roden]

I'll vote Jessica.

I know you don't fully trust me Shiki, but would you be willing to make a leap of faith?

[Roden]

Hey Shiki, Let's Collaborate!

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Jessica

[Roden]

I don't know any of your alts tbh

[Roden]

Oh and the mod will send you something

[Roden]

In game, Block Argument prevents everyone from disagreeing with the user for one turn of debate. It could possibly translate into a "mute your target" ability for this set up.

[Roden]

I hate hoods

i generally do not know how to effectively use them

Same. I kinda hoped we could wait to explain what happened though.

It also confirms Roden is not GA.

It's actually simple logic, GA would target NK15 instead and FATLY tell how he is not Guardian Angel.

Not claiming or denying GA here, but Gnosia would likely have the same idea if I'd done so. A townie who Neighborizes a Cop protected by a Doc is a pretty a clear threat.

[Roden]

I hate hoods

i generally do not know how to effectively use them

Same. I kinda hoped we could wait to explain what happened though.

It also confirms Roden is not GA.

It's actually simple logic, GA would target NK15 instead and FATLY tell how he is not Guardian Angel.

Not claiming or denying GA here, but Gnosia would likely have the same idea if I'd done so. A townie who Neighborizes a Cop protected by a Doc is a pretty a clear threat.

Can I interest you in a spicy Jada wagon?

Jada is currently the most obvious vote after yesterday so yes. I read her irritation with the Jessica elim as genuine; not townie annoyance but scum annoyed that their partner got caught early and had a mis-elim slip through their fingers at the last minute. The extra "this is a mis-elim but whatever" vibes Jada tried to give off at EoD was very LAMIST.

Tomorrow we Bug hunt in case she is Gnosia, don't want to accidentally catch the scum team too early unfortunately.

[Roden]

So facts are
NK15 is cop
Herta is coroner. Jessica was scum.
Enchant is not gnosia (can be traitor)

Mechanically there’s a strong argument for Enchant traitor Shiki scum but I don’t believe that so I am not sharing it. If I do believe it or am asked, I will share it.

Hard disagree that Shiki is scum here. Unless the team is exactly Jessica/Shiki/Elmo slot, there's no reason Shiki would have pushed Jessica over Elmo.

[Roden]

i town anyway

but why would i have pushed for jessica rabbit over elmo if the three of us were the team like jessica was at least playing the game

pedit: @roden

I think there are scenarios where you might want to do that as scum. Mech-wise, scum!Elmo could have a strong character skill, and as far as day play goes it makes both of you look townier coming into today. I think that's what Math could be paranoia-theorizing at least.

[Roden]

I don't think either of you are scum though because the Gnosia blatantly don't understand the set up.

[Roden]

I don't think either of you are scum though because the Gnosia blatantly don't understand the set up.

Either of you = Shiki + Elmo slot

[Roden]

I'm more worried that you're Bug than Gnosia tbh, but encouraging the Engineer to check you eases that worry a bit

[Roden]

I don't think either of you are scum though because the Gnosia blatantly don't understand the set up.

Either of you = Shiki + Elmo slot

Eh.
Elmo is a hard one cause there was early resistance by Jada but it was the only viable counter wagon there.


Ranger started that wagon on Elmo so I’m still inclined to say Ranger is town for that, I don’t think the wagon was started by a wolf sorry.

I don't either, the scum team's confidence in general seems low. They never CC'd the Engineer or Doctor, they didn't really take advantage of the standard vote mechanic making a temporary appearance, it doesn't seem like there were any attempts to spread paranoia and suspicion, and they seemed really afraid of the lie-detecting abilities.

With that in mind, Freedom/FakeGod/Beeboy/Narrow/Jada are my PoE. FakeGod is absolute last in my priority though, since scum don't want to mess with lie detectors and he can potentially catch scum later if Shiki refills his shot.

[Roden]

half this fkn game is mech spam anyway

Why do you think this?
Calling it spam, makes me think that you'd prefer we avoid mech discussion.

Considering the mod gave town 10 character roles, and then let 5 of us double up with town power roles, I'm sure scum are afraid that we can mech solve this game. Jessica's Block Argument not activating probably stings even more, since they seem to have so little counter play as it is.

[Roden]

the main one is that i would know in case i would like to use my ability on them

I see.
It was me.

State your human.

A human containing a voice and vote.

Setsu

's character power is quite literally just called '

Vote

'. (No, seriously.)
I've other 'crumbs if need be, but should be obvious it was me. xD

What does my identity have to do with anything Ranger?

While alts can change many aspects of how a player plays, some traits remain regardless of account. I believe you'd be disinclined to bus, and your D1 play with Jessica Gnosia supports that.

Interesting. I assumed scum used this ability and that we could find them through a mass claim sometime down the road.

Why did you wait to claim this?

[Roden]

half this fkn game is mech spam anyway

Why do you think this?
Calling it spam, makes me think that you'd prefer we avoid mech discussion.

Considering the mod gave town 10 character roles, and then let 5 of us double up with town power roles, I'm sure scum are afraid that we can mech solve this game. Jessica's Block Argument not activating probably stings even more, since they seem to have so little counter play as it is.

Why do you say we double up?

Engineer, Doctor, GA, and both Guard Duty slots also have character skills. In addition to the five VTs with character skills, that means there are 15 town abilities in play.

[Roden]

half this fkn game is mech spam anyway

Why do you think this?
Calling it spam, makes me think that you'd prefer we avoid mech discussion.

Considering the mod gave town 10 character roles, and then let 5 of us double up with town power roles, I'm sure scum are afraid that we can mech solve this game. Jessica's Block Argument not activating probably stings even more, since they seem to have so little counter play as it is.

Why do you say we double up?

Engineer, Doctor, GA, and both Guard Duty slots also have character skills. In addition to the five VTs with character skills, that means there are 15 town abilities in play.

Why do you say only 5?

Because there are only 5.

Why did you wait to claim this?

Why would I claim it? I saw no reason to. Nobody brought forth reason until shiki did. I left enough breadcrumbs in my iso to make it obvious (131 shows why I used it); past that, I saw no need.

A common concern when it happened was that town didn't really have any reason not to claim it, especially since when it did happen it felt too coincidental with conversation at the time talking about keeping track of votes.

[Roden]

We should mass claim but not yet. Shiki has a plan.

[Roden]

Because I think you are scum... When you are in a grest bussing/bug slot?

Hmm

Yep. Pretty much this. I don’t think you’ve put thought into why I can’t be group scum based on the setup. And bug will likely resolve itself.

I fully expect NK15 to check me and scum can’t kill me to frame me as bug. So if I die I know it’s the scum NK and then NK15 clears me. If scum kill NK15 to avoid that possibility (assuming no doc protect) then the fact I am not dead confirms me not bug. The slimmest of margins that could be argued after tonight is traitor but then traitors generally die with the last scum.

I really don’t think you’re thinking your sus through.

Cool.

Welcome to not bug status for me.

I have work fires and will get to this later.

Nope. NK15 was roleblocked last night.

No status for you.

Then Drapion slot (now LLD) is confirmed scum since they lied and said it moved votes not roleblock and Jada voted herself to support the bluff unless scum have some secret roleblock which I doubt in flipless.

I'm not the Drapion slot, but nice try?

I literally corrected myself.

I still find you sus as well for your push on me

I am legit confirmed not bug so I don’t get this.

Enchant already explained this, Engineer got Roleblocked by his character ability. So you weren't checked last night.

[Roden]

I'm not sure what's going on with Drapion slot vs Math right now or why they think each other is lying. But from what I understand, the way Drapion described his ability is that Block Argument forces the target to vote for the person they indicated sus towards. Jada indicated sus towards Drapion, but self-voted instead (which might indicate a non-vote, per the game rules that would turn into a self-vote).

Gimli can you explain your character ability for us?

[Roden]

Because I think you are scum... When you are in a grest bussing/bug slot?

Hmm

Yep. Pretty much this. I don’t think you’ve put thought into why I can’t be group scum based on the setup. And bug will likely resolve itself.

I fully expect NK15 to check me and scum can’t kill me to frame me as bug. So if I die I know it’s the scum NK and then NK15 clears me. If scum kill NK15 to avoid that possibility (assuming no doc protect) then the fact I am not dead confirms me not bug. The slimmest of margins that could be argued after tonight is traitor but then traitors generally die with the last scum.

I really don’t think you’re thinking your sus through.

Cool.

Welcome to not bug status for me.

I have work fires and will get to this later.

Nope. NK15 was roleblocked last night.

No status for you.

Then Drapion slot (now LLD) is confirmed scum since they lied and said it moved votes not roleblock and Jada voted herself to support the bluff unless scum have some secret roleblock which I doubt in flipless.

I'm not the Drapion slot, but nice try?

I literally corrected myself.

I still find you sus as well for your push on me

I am legit confirmed not bug so I don’t get this.

Enchant already explained this, Engineer got Roleblocked by his character ability. So you weren't checked last night.

?? Cop only gets results after checking someone

NK15 sends request to check me last night
Dies

So no way to know if blocked

So ergo I am town because scum shot NK15?

Did you forget what Enchant's passive ability does?

[Roden]

Fine. I think i should't had bet on common sense and claimed instantly. Oh well.


I am Kukrushka, anyone who targets me with any ability at night will feel regret and roleblocked for next night. It's passive and i can't disable that. It's also infinity use.


Avoid me. Tsk.

For one night yeah.

[Roden]

I'm not sure what's going on with Drapion slot vs Math right now or why they think each other is lying. But from what I understand, the way Drapion described his ability is that Block Argument forces the target to vote for the person they indicated sus towards. Jada indicated sus towards Drapion, but self-voted instead (which might indicate a non-vote, per the game rules that would turn into a self-vote).

Gimli can you explain your character ability for us?

okay...
I inherit the ability of the first dead player.

I wasn't told what I got from Jessica. so.

The previous player in your slot claimed Jessica's ability and used it yesterday. So either this is a mod error, or one of you or Drapion lied.

[Roden]

Yeah I don’t exactly believe that either. But whatever I guess I am not confirmed not bug if you do believe it.

I did all I could if you want to elim me over Drapion / G who “didn’t do anything” despite posting the Block Argument and despite them doing something in thread.

Drapion/Gimili and LLD just feel the most sus to me from having played this type of game the longest time.

What about their play has been sus?

[Roden]

Alright, our cop died somehow so I think this is outside of what's supposed to happen.

Roden, can you give us some options in case of cop death?

We're in a tough spot because Bug needs to die like today, but we have no way to confirm it now. Character and skill mass claim should probably happen today to avoid end game shenanigans since we technically can end up in ELO tomorrow and just not know it.

I trust Drapion as it doesn't make sense otherwise.

What do you mean? What doesn't make sense?

[Roden]

I trust Drapion as it doesn't make sense otherwise.

What do you mean? What doesn't make sense?

I feel like Drapion was telling the truth about knowing Jessica's ability as it would be hyper weird for him to not know what his inherited ability did.

Why can't Drapion just...lie? He can know what his ability actually does, but lie to us and give us a fake description.

[Roden]

Decided to do something.

Name. Role/Alignment. Flavor Name. Special.

1. Herta. Coroner. Unknown. Unknown.

2. ProfessorDrapion. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
3. Roden. Unknown. Unknown. "Let's Collaborate", creates hood.

4. Jessica Rabbit. Gnosia. "Block Argument", Vote Redirection.

5. Esooa. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
6. Mathblade. Unknown. Gina. If someone susses them, learns special ability of said player.
7. Ranger. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
8. Freedom. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
9. FakeGod. Unknown. Unknown. "What is your Role?".
10. Jada. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
11. Enchant. Town. Kukrushka. "Regret"
12. beeboy. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
13. Lady Lambdadelta. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.

14. Not Known 15. Engineer. Unknown. "State you are Human".

15. narrow parking. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.


I remember someone claimed ability which recharges other abilities but i don't really have time. If you claimed something which i forgot please state.
We need to think which ability we want to recharge. MathBlade and FakeGod both can be useful.

Let's go down this list please.

[Roden]

Night 2 Freeze Vote

Jada (12): Herta, ProfessorDrapion, Esooa, Mathblade, Ranger, Freedom, FakeGod, Enchant, beeboy, Lady Lambdadelta, Not Known 15, narrow parking,
Roden (1): Roden
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Jada


Not voting (0):

Jada has been frozen!

Finding replacement for Roden.

Huh, ok, it adds up then if the VC was the error. The ability seems real now.

[Roden]

Actually, with two Gnosia still alive, I'd prefer to hunt the Gnosia.

The reason for this: One Gnosia alive can't kill Enchant without forfeiting a kill.

Two Gnosia alive

can

. One makes the kill, and the other makes the next.

Enchant living is crucial to a town win, so we need Enchant to not be killed, or to cost the Gnosia their next kill.

Furthermore, two Gnosia can communicate and coordinate at night, allowing them to have two voices to optimize their kill rather than one, and potentially, help plan dayplay.

Taking a second Gnosia out here is vital. I believe {narrow parking, beeboy} have the highest chance to contain Gnosia specifically.

This makes sense actually.