With the amount of shit you have given me the entire game for daring to do such things as disagree with your thoughts or be unsure of my read on you, I have officially run out of patience for what feels like you intentionally avoiding to try to solve this game.In post 8507, Past Present Future wrote:In post 8502, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are
Thanks, that was really super helpful.
Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)
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We discussed this specific read, at length, for a considerable amount of time.In post 8491, Past Present Future wrote:I’m also frustrated with you because I strongly believe Fire can’t be lunar and you pretty much just dismissed that. So if you’re go to ignore what I consider to be an extremely valid take,
I am done discussing this specific read for now. I would like to solve the game at large.But I would like to discuss other things that will solve more of the game now.We can come back to the Firebringer-Lunar read.-
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This is fair and I hadn't considered it. What CSF linked is accurate to what I meant, thanks CSF.In post 8515, T-Bone wrote:
As an aside, some people change their forum scroll settings so what is Page 338 to you may not be to them, and we could have avoided a lot of this nonsense if you just linked the first post you wanted discussed.In post 8508, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:on Page 338
I'm frustrated that it was ignored in the first place because it was a sizable chunk of the conversation yesterday.-
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Okay. So to be very, explicitly clear: you think CSF, T-Bone, and Magician do not make sense as Solar, based on what was discussed there? It's important to me that this is explicit because it shows clearly in the thread that you've put thought towards the subject, and it makes it a lot harder for scum to backpedal on it later on. That's why I'm harping on about it so much.In post 8516, Past Present Future wrote:HEY I was pretty sure I answered you yesterday and was trying to find that post. I think it makes sense yes but why aren’t you also making arguments about who you think can’t be Lunar, when I’ve asked you about that like a gazillion times already?
I have started with the reads that seem very simple and intuitive to me in a way that I'd expect most of the thread to agree with. It just so happens that the simple reads seem to be the Solar reads.
But also, I have already argued that CSF can't be Lunar. I'm interested in talking Lunar as well. But one step at a time.-
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This was Klick.In post 8519, Past Present Future wrote:In post 8509, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:
With the amount of shit you have given me the entire game for daring to do such things as disagree with your thoughts or be unsure of my read on you, I have officially run out of patience for what feels like you intentionally avoiding to try to solve this game.In post 8507, Past Present Future wrote:In post 8502, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are
Thanks, that was really super helpful.Well, good for you then, I think I’ll just stick to dealing with T-Bone and CSF then. I’m also fine dealing with Klick.
I want to solve this game. Demonstrate that you do as well.-
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And Scarf!In post 8521, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:But also, I have already argued that CSF can't be Lunar.-
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Past Present Future wrote:
I have. Demonstrate that you aren’t ignoring my points. T-Bone addressed them.In post 8523, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:
This was Klick.In post 8519, Past Present Future wrote:In post 8509, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:
With the amount of shit you have given me the entire game for daring to do such things as disagree with your thoughts or be unsure of my read on you, I have officially run out of patience for what feels like you intentionally avoiding to try to solve this game.In post 8507, Past Present Future wrote:In post 8502, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are
Thanks, that was really super helpful.Well, good for you then, I think I’ll just stick to dealing with T-Bone and CSF then. I’m also fine dealing with Klick.
I want to solve this game. Demonstrate that you do as well.Spoiler:-
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In post 8504, Firebringer wrote:literally no idea.
totally fine with going today but i think im just gonna sheep enchant.
my reads have been very lackluster this game and i don't intend to push them or even attempt. Gonna have town carry me or yall can get rid of me.
Think we in good position to win this without me putting forward effort to solve this.@Firebringer
I guess I'll be a bit more clear with why I'm specifically asking you the questions I am
I very strongly think that the only possible Solars left are you, PPF, and Enchant. That's a view shared by T-Bone and CSF.
You're one of those players. If you're town, you know one of those players is town. So if you agree with the premise, you're looking at PPF or Enchant as definitely Solar scum.
And from there I'd be really interested in your solve of who it is between them. It'd tell me more about your alignment, and it'd give insight on the other two.-
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I've taken a second to chat with Bella. I think Nancy and I might naturally clash really hard in this type of environment, possibly because we're rather similar in some ways. It's part of why I can't shake a gut townread on her posting that Bella isn't seeing; I think on some subconscious level I heavily relate with how she views things.
Anyway, I'm also going to step away and do something productive for a little while. Maybe we'll both come back and be in a better place for this. Here have a Bella for a little while-
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I said that based on this post (and the quoted post by CSF)In post 8445, T-Bone wrote:
I think this is correct.In post 8438, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:I agree that Magician and T-Bone are not Solar. If you remove me from the Solar list because of no NK that first noon, the list of Solar is really just:
PPF
Enchant
Firebringer
I don't feel like I'm misrepresenting you by saying your possibilities for Solar are those three?
I thought you and CSF were discussing the possibility of Magician being Lunar-
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You will not shut up about this and it's making me want to talk about that read exponentially less.In post 8548, Past Present Future wrote:But based on all of the reads I’ve seen, nothing has persuaded me I’m wrong on Fire not being lunar and you not seeing that doesn’t give me a lot of confidence in the rest of your reads.-
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I will say this one more time:
I do not feel confident in my read of the Frozen Angel/Save The Dragons interactions.
I don't feel confident, because I have already read STD as town based on those interactions, and been wrong.
So when you repeatedly ask questions about the FA/STD interactions...
My answer is, 'I don't know!'
But I have already said that.
There are things I think I CAN solve accurately.
The FA/STD interactions is not one of them.
Please, stop pestering me about them.-
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I struggle to stay engaged in the meat of the conversation with you when you think something is obvious, because it feels like you just keep shouting that it's beyond obvious and that I must be intentionally not seeing it or I'm scum for not seeing it. When what would actually help me see your perspective is having a very logical conversation with you about why you think something is obvious. But you lose your patience in that conversation... and so we don't get anywhere.In post 8556, Past Present Future wrote:You’re clearly not getting it. I unlike you do feel confident and that’s what I’m trying to get through to you and everyone else. It’s beyond obvious to me, so maybe I shouldn’t get so annoyed when others aren’t seeing to me what’s clearly obvious to me but it’s really hard just to keep quiet about that when I’m so confident in that read.
And I don't know how to resolve that.-
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This is interesting to me. I'm still out so I'll look later, but I'm very interested in looking at the context around thisIn post 8566, Past Present Future wrote:You have two flipped lunars jumping on FA as a direct result of her STD push, That totally doesn’t look like Fire could ever be either an Ydrasse or an MMR buddy.-
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Here are some of the vital quotes from MMR for context. But I'd heavily recommend reading up on D2 (or 'Dawn 1') if you're interested in getting a proper feel of MMR's behaviour surrounding this.
In post 3116, MMR wrote:
Really?In post 3014, Yume wrote:Also, PPF lied about selling apples.
We tried to investigate them last Night and we received no result.
Measles think that this could be due to our Loyal modifier.
-RubellaIn post 3119, MMR wrote:
Assuming that you're talking to us, we're a Loyal Rolestopper.In post 3118, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:? Can you explain your post to us more?
-RubellaIn post 3122, MMR wrote:
Mumps and Measles wanted to see your reaction.In post 3121, Past Present Future wrote:
Why would you protect us over claimed prs?In post 3119, MMR wrote:
Assuming that you're talking to us, we're a Loyal Rolestopper.In post 3118, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:? Can you explain your post to us more?
-Rubella
We're actually Loyal Neapolitan.
I guess that your reaction means that you're Town.
-RubellaIn post 3336, MMR wrote:In post 3181, Radical Rat wrote:VOTE: MMR
Hypothetically possible you were blocked, but in that case why claim at all?
I wanted to see everybody's reaction.In post 3182, Radical Rat wrote:If you're not sure your check went through, and you townread the target enough to discard the maybe-guilty on those grounds, why wouldn't you just try again later before claiming?
And I think that mastina slipped having a similar role.
-RubellaIn post 4299, MegAzumarill wrote:MMR was eliminated. Their role wasSpoiler:
Spoiler: Role PM
Nero Cain replaces mastina.
Noon 1 Begins! The summer heat asks people to return to the cool comforts of their own home, lest they face heat stroke.
Deadline 1 day*
Deadline will be frozen at 1 day until a replacement for Yume is found.
T-Bone must PM me this phase or I will seek replacement.
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You already know my answer to this so I'll abstain influence until others answerIn post 8585, T-Bone wrote:Okay question for everyone but PPF.
Did MMR have a real result? Gut reaction yes or no?-
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Is there some reason you're ignoring the response I have given to this every other time you've brought it up?In post 8589, Past Present Future wrote:Dangle, some reason your ignoring this?
Why are MMR pushing Mastina if their claim is anything other than made up horseshit?-
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This definitely applies to the MMR situation as well.In post 8560, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:it feels like you just keep shouting that it's beyond obvious and that I must be intentionally not seeing it or I'm scum for not seeing it. When what would actually help me see your perspective is having a very logical conversation with you about why you think something is obvious.
If you're town, I'm not going to be bullied into seeing your confbiased perspective on the situation.
You are the single person in the thread who is saying that it's incredibly obvious that MMR was just lying. No one else is positing that perspective. I am not unreasonable for seeing an alternative explanation. I am not ALONE in seeing an alternative explanation.-
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Because knowing MMR's role, which is publicly-revealed information that we all have access to, doesn't confirm you as scum?In post 8592, Past Present Future wrote:I hadn’t taken into account previously that Prof voted for you and the very of him getting MMR role considering he’s pretty damned good at mech ought to say something. He knew their role and he still voted you, so if there was any basis to MMR claim - which I obviously know there isn’t - why wouldn’t he have voted us?
Just like knowing MMR was Lunar doesn't confirm that he was 100% bullshitting about his claim.-
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In post 8322, professotic wrote:Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.
Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR hadbut we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.-
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Why's that?In post 8599, Past Present Future wrote:If we die tonight, phase switches to dusk which is what scum needs to mislim the rest of the town and win this.-
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Bumping this onto current pageIn post 8585, T-Bone wrote:Okay question for everyone but PPF.
Did MMR have a real result? Gut reaction yes or no?-
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Bella wanted to refresh her own grasp of the MMR claim situation, so we took some time to look again properly at it.
VOTE: Past Present Future
We both feel rather confident upon discussing it together thatwhat MMR had was a 'vanilla' result on PPF from their passive ability, which would mean thatPPF is lying about their role.
Case for this coming up. I'd appreciate some eyes on this.-
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This is what I've thought for a while and it's why I thought PPF could still be town. Bella convinced me otherwise and that's what I'm going to go into in the big post I'm writing up.In post 8613, Enchant wrote:But "They saw PPF as Beloved Princess" is kinda possible case too?
No, PPF hadn't claimed before MMR's claim. I can't find when PPF actually did claim, but I know it was after MMR.Did PPF claim BEFORE MMR? Wait i really don't remember.-
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In reading this, it is very important to make a distinction between MMR'sclaimand MMR'sbehavioursurrounding the claim. The literal claim MMR made in the thread was not completely truthful. The behaviour MMR showed is what is important to analyse.
So, first of all: the idea that MMR 100% made everything up is ridiculous. The evidence very much points to MMR having *some* sort of result on PPF. MMR's actual role gives sufficient information to effectively receive the information that a Loyal Neopolitan would receive. They claimed a result on PPF for a reason. And that reason was *not* to outright claim a guilty on PPF; MMR does not act like what they have is a definitive guilty on PPF at any point, they don't push for PPF's elimination, and they only vote PPF when they can no longer argue against the idea that if they should know that PPF is scum if everything they've said is true. So MMR claimed a result based on *some* information that they had about PPF, and the motive wasn't simply to get PPF eliminated because they weren't actually trying to do that. (I am willing to discuss this part further with anyone not named PPF; it seems obvious to me that MMR did in fact learn *something* about PPF's role N1, and so if anyone disagrees or isn't sure about that, I'd be interested in discussing it further.)
The question then becomes: can we figure out WHAT result MMR got on PPF? To be clear, there are two results MMR could have *actually* received: the Beloved Princess role that PPF has claimed (which would mean PPF is town), or Vanilla (which would mean PPF is Solar).
What we're looking for is the DIFFERENCE between how MMR would be acting if they got these two results. Specifically, if MMR got Beloved Princess, MMR knows PPF is town. But if MMR got Vanilla, they don't know whether PPF is a VT or any brand of Solar scum. So,what is MMR trying to do in regards to PPF?I think their behaviour suggests that MMR is trying to sort PPF.
The most compelling evidence to me for this is this post by MMR:
PPF says, 'Why would you protect us over claimed prs?'In post 3122, MMR wrote:
Mumps and Measles wanted to see your reaction.In post 3121, Past Present Future wrote:
Why would you protect us over claimed prs?In post 3119, MMR wrote:
Assuming that you're talking to us, we're a Loyal Rolestopper.In post 3118, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:? Can you explain your post to us more?
-Rubella
We're actually Loyal Neapolitan.
I guess that your reaction means that you're Town.
-Rubella
Rubella sees this and incorrectly thinks PPF is implying they do not have a PR. That would mean PPF is Vanilla, and therefore could be town. And that explains why Rubella concludes that PPF is likely Town from this exchange.
It makes quite a lot of sense when you consider that MMR has a Vanilla result on PPF and is trying to figure out whether they're a VT or scum. Doing the reaction test in the first place makes a lot less sense if you assume MMR already knows PPF is town.
I also think, generally, that if MMR has a Beloved Princess result on PPF, there is very little incentive to claim in the thread in the first place. (As I've already established, their goal wasn't simply to get PPF eliminated, they weren't pushing for that and there were plenty of more effective ways to establish a guilty claim on PPF if that was the goal.) Whereas if MMR got a Vanilla result, there is a clear incentive to sort out whether PPF is Town or Solar.
MMR having a Vanilla result explains the claim happening in the first place, and it explains the weird reaction test thing that otherwise has no purpose. I find it very likely that MMR had a Vanilla result. And that makes PPF scum.-
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PagetopIn post 8623, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:In reading this, it is very important to make a distinction between MMR'sclaimand MMR'sbehavioursurrounding the claim. The literal claim MMR made in the thread was not completely truthful. The behaviour MMR showed is what is important to analyse.
So, first of all: the idea that MMR 100% made everything up is ridiculous. The evidence very much points to MMR having *some* sort of result on PPF. MMR's actual role gives sufficient information to effectively receive the information that a Loyal Neopolitan would receive. They claimed a result on PPF for a reason. And that reason was *not* to outright claim a guilty on PPF; MMR does not act like what they have is a definitive guilty on PPF at any point, they don't push for PPF's elimination, and they only vote PPF when they can no longer argue against the idea that if they should know that PPF is scum if everything they've said is true. So MMR claimed a result based on *some* information that they had about PPF, and the motive wasn't simply to get PPF eliminated because they weren't actually trying to do that. (I am willing to discuss this part further with anyone not named PPF; it seems obvious to me that MMR did in fact learn *something* about PPF's role N1, and so if anyone disagrees or isn't sure about that, I'd be interested in discussing it further.)
The question then becomes: can we figure out WHAT result MMR got on PPF? To be clear, there are two results MMR could have *actually* received: the Beloved Princess role that PPF has claimed (which would mean PPF is town), or Vanilla (which would mean PPF is Solar).
What we're looking for is the DIFFERENCE between how MMR would be acting if they got these two results. Specifically, if MMR got Beloved Princess, MMR knows PPF is town. But if MMR got Vanilla, they don't know whether PPF is a VT or any brand of Solar scum. So,what is MMR trying to do in regards to PPF?I think their behaviour suggests that MMR is trying to sort PPF.
The most compelling evidence to me for this is this post by MMR:
PPF says, 'Why would you protect us over claimed prs?'In post 3122, MMR wrote:
Mumps and Measles wanted to see your reaction.In post 3121, Past Present Future wrote:
Why would you protect us over claimed prs?In post 3119, MMR wrote:
Assuming that you're talking to us, we're a Loyal Rolestopper.In post 3118, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:? Can you explain your post to us more?
-Rubella
We're actually Loyal Neapolitan.
I guess that your reaction means that you're Town.
-Rubella
Rubella sees this and incorrectly thinks PPF is implying they do not have a PR. That would mean PPF is Vanilla, and therefore could be town. And that explains why Rubella concludes that PPF is likely Town from this exchange.
It makes quite a lot of sense when you consider that MMR has a Vanilla result on PPF and is trying to figure out whether they're a VT or scum. Doing the reaction test in the first place makes a lot less sense if you assume MMR already knows PPF is town.
I also think, generally, that if MMR has a Beloved Princess result on PPF, there is very little incentive to claim in the thread in the first place. (As I've already established, their goal wasn't simply to get PPF eliminated, they weren't pushing for that and there were plenty of more effective ways to establish a guilty claim on PPF if that was the goal.) Whereas if MMR got a Vanilla result, there is a clear incentive to sort out whether PPF is Town or Solar.
MMR having a Vanilla result explains the claim happening in the first place, and it explains the weird reaction test thing that otherwise has no purpose. I find it very likely that MMR had a Vanilla result. And that makes PPF scum.-
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Why do we need to hit Lunar today?In post 8622, Enchant wrote:I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.-
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@ Past Present Future:
I'm not responding to your 20+ posts about professotic because they're ridiculous and professotic getting MMR's role tells no one anything about anyone's alignment. If there's a single person in this thread other than you who wants me to respond to any points you've made, then they can ask me themselves and I'm happy to respond.
I will not be responding to any more posts you make. You are now aware of this. Continuing to try to engage with me is only going to make the thread harder for everyone else to read. Goodbye.-
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Noon is up next, which means Solar have their kill. In the scenario where Lunar are Arsonists and are also able to prime on Noon, PPF is primed (because due to how MMR's role works, Lunar would have targeted PPF with a factional action, AKA dousing). I value removing the Solar kill higher considering that.In post 8630, Enchant wrote:
Why we don'tIn post 8626, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:
Why do we need to hit Lunar today?In post 8622, Enchant wrote:I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.
Not gonna lie, I ALSO rather highly value removing PPF from the game at this point because they are driving me up the fucking wall. But even removing that bias from consideration I think there's more value to be gained from eliminating them now.-
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A radnom collection of thoughts:
I think PPF is wrong in their assumption that prof had any more info than what was publicly available in the thread: we can't assume anything about factional kills. We can't even assume the scum teams are balanced.
I don't think we can read anything ia into std and fa. I don't think it was fake, but I don't think it means anything partner wise
I can't see mmr's logic for claiming anything, is the issue: if they weren't pushing ppf, why out any result in that moment? They were more scum read I think, so it's a weird 1 v1 to start? My thinking earlier was that the result was 'vanilla' but that meant they didn't know whether VT or scum and dksnr want to be seen to b leading an elim on scum
@all, why does mmr say /anything/ at the point they did? Why not claim literally your real role but hide it as attunement related? My concern is either they were trying to achieve a spefici result, or....?????
FB should have a lot more reads than he does
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UNVOTE:In post 8666, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Does it make sense for scum to out their role and info just to test whether Nancy is Solar or VT? That trade doesn't seem worth it. 3121 isn't even a VT claim from PPF. Shouldn't they have pushed PPF to fullclaim?
I think this is a fair point. It doesn't satisfy my questions about why the claim happened at all (I'm not thrilled with your explanation after this), but I think there's a fair amount of wanting there to be a clear answer where there isn't one going on in my head about it.
I do agree with you in fully expecting Firebringer to flip scum of some variety. And if I remove all context, I do think Firebringer is more likely to be a Solar flip than a Lunar flip.
I'm just confused about who fits as Lunar and also feels like *scum*.-
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I'm not Bella but she told me earlier she was talking about Yume's claimIn post 8691, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:I still want to lim FB
Whose claim? Yume's or MMR?In post 8681, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:Yeah but now I have another 'why the hell was the claim made ' issue!
She didn't understand why Yume said anything about apples
But with what Totus said it seems to make sense, at least from Yume's end-
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On one hand, it feels incorrect to me that we would correctly eliminate 5/8 times and that leave us in 3-1-1
On the other hand, Lunar seems blatantly less powerful than Solar with the info we have. The Lunar factional abilities would have to be rather strong without a fourth Lunar for it to make sense
I think aiming for Solar today is correct regardless-
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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I thought it was possible particularly because it was very early in the game. Scum like to mess about with associatives early on when there's very little at stake. And there was literally nothing else that felt like it disqualified Firebringer as Lunar.In post 8741, Past Present Future wrote:
Well you were clearly right on Fire but I thought he didn’t make any sense as lunar. In fact I thought FA had been really townie but Mastina I guess is a genius, since she correctly said that this was FA’s scum meta we were seeing. I feel really dumb now being pocketed by both Fire and Ydrasse. But I’m usually really good at correctly parsing associative tells but I was totally fooled this time.In post 8739, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:On one hand, it feels incorrect to me that we would correctly eliminate 5/8 times and that leave us in 3-1-1
On the other hand, Lunar seems blatantly less powerful than Solar with the info we have. The Lunar factional abilities would have to be rather strong without a fourth Lunar for it to make sense
I think aiming for Solar today is correct regardless
I wish we could have discussed it as a possibility instead of arguing about how it was so obvious that I had to be scum for considering it.-
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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2 Solar doesn't feel fair at all to Solar, even without the 4 Lunar that would be necessary for that. I'd expect RR to have also had a PR if that were the case.In post 8742, Past Present Future wrote:
Why are you assuming then there’s another solar? I assumed that too but I now have doubts after Fire’s flip. T-Bone thinks lunar did something with factionals, so maybe the delayed kill theory fits that?In post 8739, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:On one hand, it feels incorrect to me that we would correctly eliminate 5/8 times and that leave us in 3-1-1
On the other hand, Lunar seems blatantly less powerful than Solar with the info we have. The Lunar factional abilities would have to be rather strong without a fourth Lunar for it to make sense
I think aiming for Solar today is correct regardless-
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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Why was CSF confirmed town?
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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KlickIn post 8721, Enchant wrote:Lunar seems to have many factional abilities, which they could use, some of them are limited.
I have doubts still, but think one of these could be convert.
Bella almost always signs and I haven't signed once-
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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MMR's role combined with Firebringer's implies a set of relatively weak factional abilities, with MMR's role intended to amplify the overall utility of these abilitiesIn post 4299, MegAzumarill wrote: You are aLunar Starmaster
While you are alive, whenever your faction successfully performs a factional action on a player, you will passively learn the role of the target. If your faction targets a member of theSolar Cult, you will receive a result of vanilla, regardless of the target's role.
[REDACTED]
You win when your faction makes up half of the living players, and no members of theSolar Cultare alive.-
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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I dunno. Things like Tracker, Watcher, Doc, etc?In post 8750, Past Present Future wrote:What do you think their factional ability is if not delayed kills?
There is zero evidence that Lunar have any killing ability and there have been four Nights-
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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Based on Lunar's roles the only flipped Lunar that makes sense as someone who was converted is Ydrasse. And I would consider Ydrasse a very unlikely choice for conversion target.
If we've eliminated all of the original Lunar scum and are going to lose to recruit T-Bone and his fifth recruited member of the scumteam, then I'm kinda fine with that also you should pick us to randomly be a winner please.-
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Dingle Dangle Scarecrow Goon
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Meuh died at Noon
Solar kills at Noon
Solar probably killed Meuh
Meuh was targeted by *some* negative effect at Noon. I don't know what Meuh was targeted by. We don't have enough evidence to know what Meuh was targeted by. We don't have sufficient evidence that *Lunar has delayed kills* is the answer to what we don't know.
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