The Call of Cutthulhufish ÔÇ║ÔîêGame Over!ÔîïÔÇ╣

[Pine]

VOTE: Charlie
Overeagerness to jump on a policy lynch despite having no experience with that person. Policy lynch makes sense, but not coming from Charlie.

jindori's modkill is in an ongoing game, but let's leave it at the fact that he was modkilled for playing against his wincon when he admitted to being scum, and possibly exposing one of his buddies and their role. If someone else can't be found by deadline, his policy lynch would be a good

alternative

to a real lynch.

[Pine]

So hush and stop using this game to cast suspicion in another i have learnt my lesson so no need to continue punish me for it.

I didn't do that even a little bit.

Seriously, the best way you can "atone" for that is to post useful information and not post so goddamn much fluff. Spelling things correctly and using capitalization and punctuation would go a long way in my personal book, too. Every post you make is like a pet-peeve-seeking missile.

@Charlie: Because I would lynch jindori on policy, but you for being scum. Scum lynches are better than policy.

[Pine]

Good catch, Amrun. I just did the subtraction and thought "okay, we've got about five and a half days."

@Mod:

Can we have clarification about the deadline?

@jindori: Your last post made absolutely zero sense. Grammatically or in context. I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

[Pine]

My current avatar is a spruce. Negative brownie points. Finding an image I like that's under 100x100 pixels is hard.

[Pine]

@Pine: You had 2 avatars to change to. I've read the sign up threads. I like the trees better.
More importantly, I need to ask you: are you an alt? I think you're an alt.

No. I'm not. Why would you think that?

[Pine]

Empking thus far is thoroughly null. His vote is for good, but obvious reasons.

jindori is starting to look scummy of his own accord, and I'm starting to lean towards him as scum rather than (just) VI. Vote is still better on Charlie. More votes on Charlie would be nice to prompt him into goodposting.

[Pine]

@FB: Both are true. Look it up.

[Pine]

The policy wagon is misrepresented and that's a scum sign for the propagaters of the wagon.

No, it isn't.

jindori was modkilled for playing against wincon and almost ruining the game for his side. he was handing out information on his scumbuddies in return for not getting lynched.

[Pine]

FOS: FB.

Misrepresenting the policy wagon.

[Pine]

I'm not going to delve into an ongoing game any farther.

Suffice to say, I feel jindori is a menace to whatever side he's on, and he is an acceptable policy lynch.

FB continues to merit a FOS.

[Pine]

Are you still reading this thread, FB?

I said that if an agreement cannot be reached on who the scum is, jindori would be an acceptable policy lynch as compromise.

Later, I developed a leaning-scum opinion of jindori independent of my policy reasons. Neither have changed. You seem to be more interested in disrupting and misrepresenting people more than doing any scumhunting yourself.

@jindori: Stop commenting on an ongoing game that you're dead in. Bad on multiple counts.

[Pine]

How is any of that contrary to what I said, FB? I'd rather see a policy lynch I agree with than a Town lynch that I don't.

[Pine]

Also lol at disrupting the town. I

provided evidence that paints Charlie and C-worl as town

. I showed how you misrepresented Jin in your recent claims. Lols, sorry but that's called a counter argument. That's not a disruption.

@Charlie
I voted as DTMaster as my RVS vote on Nobody Special...... I reposted it in my iso under the DTM quotes.

No, you provided evidence against them as SCUM. Disruption continues. Evidence:

Pine and Empking (and Amrun) come out townier due to different reasoning involved with Jin as scum as shown in game.
Charlie and C-worl who are using the policy wagon as the main driving force come off as scummier especially if you read the turning point and what Jin posted after breaking his rule. Can't elaborate in thread, I have my personal interpretation.
.

Charlie: It's because you're not pushing Jin because you think he's scum you're pushing for policy. Your strongest reasons lie in that game. You're not attacking him due to his actions in this game.

Oh I missed something:

Charlie: MY grudge on NS was because he was an immortal town that I was masoned to. He controlled a sub neighbourhood. All of them town. He didn't post all game. Was considered scum by everyone. Then did nothing. Plus the people who found the real scum all died. Town won, but that was through good vigging, not lynches. I also confirmed details of an argument that would have shot down an insane theory that got me lynched. He didn't pass it on. I died. Flipped town. I asked him for a case. He didn't provide. He voted someone and didn't explain. He also mentioned that as an immortal god in that game (his role) he wasn't going tot take an active role in scum hunting because he's just a passive messenger that shouldn't influence how the game is played... despite being a player in the game >>;;

Unvote, Vote Charlie

, strongest case ATM.

Also, I never misrepresented my opinions on the jindori case. Town will be better off if he is out of the game, regardless of his alignment. If he's pro-Town, he'll probably screw us over, and I don't want to be stuck in LyLo with him. If he's scum, as I'm starting to suspect, then a jindori lynch is good for all of us.

[Pine]

How many times to I have to say this until it penetrates, FB? I have a

slight

scum read on jindori, which is being advocated better by others. If he does something scummy and I'm the first one to notice it, I'll point it out. I dislike re-hashing others' arguments.

Right now, my biggest scumspects are you (FB) and Charlie. Hence why I'm pushing them. If deadline comes around and neither looks like they're going to happen, I'll settle for a jindori lynch.

@Occult: I don't like PLs either. jindori is an exception.

[Pine]

@Charlie: I'm already voting for you.

Town will be better off if he is out of the game, regardless of his alignment.

You're now pushing for a lynch case based on skill level, not alignment any more. This is the core of the policy vote. If Jin is easily IDed as town, regardless of skill level you don't lynch him. You use this and go: easy confirmed town, lets lynch scum since the numbers are easier to work out. Classic fear mongering.

^ Complete misrepresentation. Nowhere have I ever suggested that I'd lynch confirmed Town, and you'd have to have an ironclad argument to make me believe one concerning jindori.

[Pine]

The only emotion that has influenced me thus far, jindori, is irritation at being misrepresented. Start goodposting.

[Pine]

Suave, control your other head. He's just makign shit up and babbling at this point.

[Pine]

Okay, despite saying no clarification on deadline, I think I've got it.

1 RL day = 1 game hour

Unless that's off, the game lasts exactly 144 RL days. Probably including night phases, so let's get cracking.

Charlie or jindori are good D1 lynches. I'm starting to think that I'm tunneling a bit too hard on FB. Starting to feel Town vs Town.

[Pine]

jindori, read the thread.

[Pine]

Time speeding up DOES sound like a bastard mod possibility, especially in a Cthulhu-themed one. I'm not so sure we want to dawdle.

Why the unvote without placing a vote elsewhere? Especially with such good places to put your vote. It implies that you never really wanted to vote jindori in the first place, you just wanted to look active.

[Pine]

Jindori: Irksome VI (well I guess he could be a SI, but I don't think so)

Charlie: Town. Just trust me on this one. He's town.

Pine: You started out fine with this Jindori lynch, but lately your cases have been more and more stretched.

This is the kind of reasoning that is meant to

sound

productive and reasonable, but doesn't actually do or say anything. Elaborate on why you're convinced Charlie is Town, and what the hell you mean by "stretched."

[Pine]

We're well out of RVS, Cicada, as your support for the Charlie wagon tacitly admits. I want an explanation beyond that which was given for your vote on someone who has only posted in RVS, and even then only twice.

[Pine]

3. SharkFinn Has not posted
6. Nobody Special Has not posted since post #6
7. Uprising Has not posted
9. RICO ACT Has not posted since post #8
10. Acronach Has not posted
11. Zyrconium Two posts, last near the end of RVS
14. Raivann Has not posted
15. Wild Has not posted
17. Lady Lambdadelta Has not posted
19. vezokpiraka Has not posted
24. Cicada Only one, very questionable post

Come on, people. Thread's been open all day.

[Pine]

Bah. Formatting of that was all screwed up.

@Mod:

Any chance of a formatting tweak?

[Pine]

Okay, that last pair of posts from Fuzzy Beavers pushed them up from I'm-probably-overthinking-this territory up above Charlie. Charlie is just as suspicious as before, but he can wait. Combine that with this post, and FBtown looks unlikely. If FB flips scum, we'll have a good D2 lynch of Cojin lined up, too.

[Pine]

just wanna say wtf@the11votesonpage1

at least take some time to talk it through, i mean, cmon ppl

Random Voting Stage

[Pine]

Okay, that last pair of posts from Fuzzy Beavers pushed them up from I'm-probably-overthinking-this territory up above Charlie. Charlie is just as suspicious as before, but he can wait. Combine that with this post, and FBtown looks unlikely. If FB flips scum, we'll have a good D2 lynch of Cojin lined up, too.

UNVOTE: Charlie
VOTE: Fuzzy Beavers

Forgot.

[Pine]

You all realize that the idea of Policy Lynching Jindori was talked about in the sign up thread by multiple players very openly and I was one of them.

This is just silly. Why on earth would anyone need to bring up policy lynching Jindori in the sign-up thread and then bother to bring it up here? I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but policy lynches being thought out before different teams have been established is silly. IE: The people advocating it in the sign up thread could easily have ended up with him on a scum team or something.

Based on jindori's previous scum performance, I'd probably be even

more

eager to policy lynch if I got stuck with him on my team.

I'd like the vote on Charlie explained. I agree with it, but it looks like sheeping to the biggest bandwagon right now, and I'd like it in your own words, at least.

[Pine]

Pine, why did you exclude me from your list of people who hadn't posted?

You were probably just sandwiched between people who were posting just fine, and got accidentally highlighted and deleted from the list. But you're goodposting now, so it's irrelevant.

[Pine]

Also what is everyone else's opion on C-worl. I already listed my thought and curious what your's are.

I think I've played with C-Worl more than anyone else here, and I can say I have a thoroughly null read on him. He hasn't been especially creative or insightful with his reasoning, but that's fairly par for the course. His votes have all made more or less sense, and aren't terribly sheepish given the evidence...entirely null.

@jindori: Biased summary is biased. And only helps lazy players be lazy. Summaries give the illusion of productivity without actually being productive, and allow the summarizer to tell their own version of the story.

Example: According to jindori's summary, the policy lynch on him is completely derailed and completely baseless. This is false. It's still good, though the policy reasons are getting overshadowed of late by scummy actions.

[Pine]

@Lady Lambadelta: First, what is an acceptable abbreviation of your name? Yours is unwieldy and awkward. Second, I disagree with your vocal opposition to the Charlie wagon. The reason you dislike the wagon had nothing to do with my early vote, one to which I'd happily return, and if you're so confident in your Charlie-Town read, I'd like you to address the

other

reasons people have voted for him.

Third, I'd be happy to read an opinion on Fuzzy Beavers, who is the current target of my scrutiny.

PEdit: You ninja'd me on this, kind of. I'd prefer a more in-depth read on one of the most prolific and scummy posters.

@tclawren: Your defense of Charlie is appallingly deficient. I will gladly provide a non-policy case on jindori in an hour or two, but it is likely to be fairly sparse. As I've said, it's mostly a gut feeling, and more of a null-leaning-scum than a hard scumread. You, on the other hand, with your questionable stances and unwillingness to share reasoning, are starting to look scummier.

[Pine]

Fair enough. Don't expect me to deify you, though.

Or would be better?

[Pine]

Vote Count 1.6

Charlie (5)

- Zyrconium,

Fluffy Muff

, C-Worl, Umbrage, Acronach

Fluffy Muff

(3)

- Nobody Special, Amrun, Pine

C-Worl (3)

- Cojin, jindori,

LL LLD Lambda Ladygod

jindori (1)

- Empking

Cojin (1)

- RICO ACT

Amrun (1)

- PimHel

Pine (1)

- tclawren

Zyrconium (1)

- Cicada

RICO ACT (1)

- Raivann

Not Voting (7)

- SharkFinn, Wild, vezokpiraka, Occult, implosion, Charlie, Uprising

With 24 players alive, 13 votes are required to lynch.

It is currently

01:41

on

April 1st

. Cutthulhufish is due to arrive at

00:00

on

April 7th

.

+1 Internets for Mod.

C-Worl. There are probably about 10-14 scums in this game, of different factions.

Isn't that a bit much for a 24 person game?

Ehh. 10-12 would allow for 3 groups of 4 or 4 groups of 3, or some variation thereof. Add a couple of lonewolf solitary types like SKs, and it could well be as high as 14. With them all competing against and killing one another, it isn't so unreasonable. PEDIT: Bah, ninja'd. Gonna have to keep on my toes with you, aren't I?

Full post in a while, I have other things to catch up on.

[Pine]

It would have been +2 internets if she'd inserted the greek letters gif I found.

[Pine]

W

ELL, telling everyone that we are a hydra is the "pro town" thing to do because it cl

e

ars things up a bit.
ALSO, when

DTM

a

greed to stating which one of us was talking, his

r

eason was because it was also a "pro town" thing to do =D (by the way, some of thos

e

-DTM posts were me, which just shows how effective that

is

=3)
IF we look like we're helping, then we'll be labled as pro town, and people will be more willing to follow u

s

down the path of destru

c

tion.
I j

u

st love how DTM's strategy works, it makes this

evil

thing so

m

uch easier.

ON ANOTHER NOTE, I don't like how

DTM

makes me look like a terrible person in this game.
SURE I lurk, but my activity goes up in the mid-late game, or I just get

killed

at the start. D:
I'M NOT that bad of

a

player, I just base things on hunches.

ANYWAY, about the charlie wagon being mostly

scum

.
I KNOW it's mostly scum, so you should just jump on and get this day over with riiiiight? xD
I THINK all my

buddie

s will agree, ^_^ right guys?

Bold: We DTM is evil
Underlined: scum scumbuddie
Italics: are DTM killed a

^Make of that what you will.

Telling people you're a hydra is neither pro- nor anti-Town.
Listing the ways you perceive yourself as pro-Town is scummy.
Breadcrumbing, or pseudo-breadcrumbing, or whatever the hell that post was, is not helpful to Town

Verdict: The above post by Fluffy Muff was intended to confuse and muddle any reads people have of them. In other words, it accomplishes the objective of making their intentions harder to read and obfuscating their motives. SCUM.

Still have doubts, Ladyλδ?

[Pine]

Trolling, yes. Trolling to obfuscate scummy intentions, and not get taken seriously? Yes. Especially since it seems to be working.

[Pine]

Good god, jindori. Look up what a hydra actually is. They're the same player-slot, posting on a shared account. Christ. Get modkilled or vig'd already.

[Pine]

Neither Ladyλδ nor I are raging. My desire to get rid of you and jindori, Fluffy Muff, is based on survival. Currently, you are both a massive detriment to the Town, and a drain on our time and patience. DTM, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you can rein in and control your other head.

[Pine]

Noted, Ladyλδ.

Anti-Town opinions and scum vibes are mutually exclusive in origin and support one another. There is no conflict.

[Pine]

3. SharkFinn-----Has not posted significantly
6. Nobody Special-----Has not posted since post #6
9. RICO ACT-----Has not posted since post #8
10. Acronach-----Has not posted
11. Zyrconium-----Two posts, last near the end of RVS
14. Raivann-----Only one, very questionable post
15. Wild-----Has not posted
19. vezokpiraka-----Only one post, and a bad one at that

[Pine]

^EBWOP: Forgot to remove Acronach from that list. Is goodposting now.

[Pine]

I'll agree with the badposting assessment, but I'm not sold on Occultscum just based off of that. He definitely did go batshit crazy overboard with the case, and has a serious case of tunnel vision, but a reasonable chunk of that echoes my feelings on jindori. Dial it down to maybe...a third, extract half the vitriol, and you've got the actual case.

[Pine]

Pick on the guy who had his birthday party yesterday and make 11 pages.

Thank you.

I am not reading those unless I see there is something important in them.

This was a bad post. Did I stutter? It has no redeeming value, and prefabricates an excuse for inconsistency.

Lurker list is based on annoyance at their (your) lack of activity when others of us are working hard.

[Pine]

@Pine
About post 108, could you tell us more about your thoughts about Empking's vote against Jindori?

I thought I was fairly clear in that post. Empking's actions have thus far been fairly null. He's playing things a bit close to the vest, but that's to be expected in a game like this. He voted for good reasons, but hasn't gone out on any limbs nor stuck his neck out. His play thus far seems carefully calculated, which I would expect out of as seasoned and conservative a player as Empking at this stage of the game. Hence, null.

[Pine]

also, smething i'd like to point out, there probably ARE third party roles to compensate for the small amount of maf roles (less than 6 unless he expects the vig to get a few bullseyes), so just saying, be ready for anything.

This feels like a slip to me, but I'm not sure yet.

QFT, except I'm not uncertain. I saw it too, and was disappointed that I wasn't going to be the first to point it out. Acronach has inside information.

UNVOTE: Fuzzy Muff
VOTE: Acronach

[Pine]

no, i just applied logic to think something through. if there was more than 6 maf, how would we lynch them in 6 days? it's impossable without near perfect scumhunters and an extremely lucky vig.

...

Pay

Attention

It is currently

01:58

on

April 1st

. Cutthulhufish is due to arrive at

00:00

on

April 7th

.

It is not April 1st. April 7th was almost a week ago now. Current timescale 1 game-hour = 1 real day. We've discussed this several times.

Vote stays for now.

[Pine]

Regardless, Fuzzy Muff votes are good. The best evidence I can give is that they've been giving intentionally-confusing, contradictory pretendclaims, subterfuge, and misinformation, likely to throw people off their trail, get away with as much scumminess as they want, and generally use the Suave half to not get taken seriously and the DTM half to accomplish their objectives.

Acronach's defense is lolable, but plausible. I've made mistakes like that in the past. My eye will stay on him, but FB has to go.

UNVOTE: Acronach
VOTE: Fuzzy Muff

[Pine]

P-edit: I dislike the Fuzzy Beavers wagon ALOT. Next objective I plan to read into the votes on him to find a scum in there.

Please elaborate. Ladyλδ is the only person to have posted thus far who has even given me pause about my FB vote, and to just come out with that sans explanation is REALLY suspicious. It sounds more like a soft defense of a buddy than anything else.

The "hydra heads can have different alignments" modnote is more than likely just saying "Yes, that is plausible within parameters" rather than "Yes, that is probable", and it certainly doesn't say "Yes, I did that".

[Pine]

EBWOP: @Shark: Or are you suspicious of the way the (small) wagon has been assembled and its motives, rather than thinking FB innocent?
@Charlie: Jumping off the FB wagon immediately after Shark's suspicions is extremely suspicious. I'm shocked I missed it the first time I read it. Especially since the reason for getting off was very questionable.

[Pine]

Cuttlefish has been pretty clear that she'd not going to elaborate on the deadline shenanigans. What it looks like at this point is that night phases last 72 RL hours (confirmed), and will probably count against us at the standard rate. So N1 will last 72 real hours and 3 game-hours. Whether the time scale speeds up (or slows down!) after that is unknown. Personally, I'm inclined to make our decision soon, and bank as much time as possible. We've got several viable lynch candidates. My favorite is Fluffy Muff, followed by Charlie and jindori. Acronach and tclawren have redeemed themselves for now. I don't believe in the C-Worl lynch, but that appears viable too.

[Pine]

EBWOP: She'd-->she's.

[Pine]

Appearance is everything in this game, Charlie. Explain.

And vezokpiraka continues to be off-topic and useless. And Charlie continues to play into every opportunity possible to appear likable.

[Pine]

If someone posts ahead of you, you get notified.

[Pine]

Hrm...this is a bastard mod game...

Suspicion of vezokpiraka rescinded for now, and I'm keeping the hell away from him. And refusing to answer questions. That might not be playing it safe, but I'd rather have other people test the risk/reward gradient there.

Yeah.

[Pine]

^This is goodposting.

I agree in regards to vezopiraka, Occult, Ladyλδ, jindori, and am starting to agree on Acronach. I think my original suspicions of him were simply incorrect.

I am swayed by the arguments (made by several people) to just leave FB to the vig(s).

I would like to see some elaboration on the Raivann scum vibes, I've not gotten any (though no pro-Town vibes either.)

ROOTING OUT A SOFTCLAIM IS NOT A SCUMTELL, BECAUSE THE SCUM ARE COMBING THE THREAD FOR SOFTCLAIMS ANYWAY

QFT. Also, in this light it is Pro-Town to investigate softclaims so they don't get used later as scum fallbacks. Scum's going to notice them and stay silent, Town can scrutinize and verify without completely outing them.

Charlie or jindori are the lynch candidates in my book.

[Pine]

Charlie

C-Worl
Raivann

jindori

These are our fabulous lynch candidates. A vote for anyone else is, as far as I am concerned, a waste of a vote.

FTFY

Ladyλδ, as much as I respect you thus far, I have yet to see a convincing case for C-Worl, and no case at all for Raivann. Admittedly, I may have missed the latter in the flood of posts, but I've been looking for the former.

Also! Cuttlefish noted that Wild failed to pick up his role PM when she announced his replacement. That means that everyone who hasn't posted DID pick up their role PM, and is officially lurking. And I dislike lurking without posting V/LA.

[Pine]

The following is a compilation of everything you've brought to bear against C-Worl, Ladyλδ. Not counting those posts where you pointed back to these four, or where you repeatedly reference the "page you spent talking about C-Worl," or the several times you've pushed the C-Worl wagon without adding to the body of evidence.

C-Worl: Why are you voting Charlie? Further, your only votes this game have been on Charlie and Jin. You advocated a policy lynch on Jin (and I love you for it, but it ain't town), which is an easy lynch to get.

Then, you switch to the Charlie wagon when it starts to garner support, and the Jin wagon is failing.

Opportunism is a scum intent best seen on the first day. No scum wants to be lynched D1. It's their worst nightmare.

This is scum. Vote: C-Worl

C-Worl is actually scum, because not only did he do the same thing you accused Charlie of being scum for (Policy on Jin), but he also followed it with a HORRIBLE Charlie vote, which was opportunistic as hell.

So... we're not policy lynching Jindori? This makes me a sad turtle.

Unvote; Vote: Charlie

Case makes sense.

See this vote?

Read As:

"OH SOMEONE POSTED A CASE ON CHARLIE, AND IT GOT APPROVAL.

LET ME JUMP ON THAT."

He doesn't even state the case. He just says "nice case", let me follow it.

And then later, when pushed for a reason, he regurgitates the same shit that other people have been saying.

C-Worl. There are probably about 10-14 scums in this game, of different factions.

The size of the read I have on you makes me about 95% sure you are one of them.

The other 5% is that you are an impossible VI.

The first three posts revolve almost solely around this one post:

So... we're not policy lynching Jindori? This makes me a sad turtle.

Unvote; Vote: Charlie

Case makes sense.

Which I agree is scummy. From most people. But hear me out on this. This is the third game I've started with C-Worl, and I am convinced that this kind of early vote-hopping is just in his playstyle, regardless of his alignment. He appears to ascribe to the school of thought that early wagons are a good way to get people to pay attention, start sweating, and get into the game. It isn't a terrible idea, except it gets mistaken for opportunism. A lot.

And here's the thing: Take this away, and your case evaporates. If I weren't so rock-solid sure of your Towniness (for now,) I'd suspect you like hell for railroading a null tell. But I am, so I don't.

I included your fourth quote, Ladyλδ, to illustrate something. C-Worl

does

have quite a bit of VI going on in him. He's still adjusting to this style of play and this board's meta, and he's a hell of a lot better than he was a month ago.

Finally, to preempt the inevitable "Scum defending scum!" bullshit, let me say (again) that C-Worl is NOT a Town read right now. He is thoroughly NULL. I've simply played enough with him, and have developed enough of a rapport (and hell, even fondness) for him, that I don't like seeing him railroaded on such thin evidence.

---------------------

I've reviewed the Raivann case too. Was this the post you referred to?

Occult please. I want to think you are

t

own. I really do. But that was un

c

alled for. IGMEOU

In other news Raivann

is scum

and should die. That last post was awful.

P.S. HAPPY BIRTHDAY VEZOK!!!

Look! It says "tc is scum" I cracked the code!

Please point out the scum tell.

Note that while I'm not on board with a D1 Raivann lynch, I

also

got subtle scum vibes when reviewing ISO. I'd just like someone to put their finger on it.

[Pine]

Apologies for quote wall. I felt it was necessary, and would have spoilered it had I realized how massive it would end up being.

[Pine]

UNVOTE: Fuzzy Beavers
VOTE: Charlie

[Pine]

And I also said that of all the people here, C-Worl, tclawren, and I have the most exposure to jindori. A policy vote from any of the three of us has solid, experience-based basis.

And I play scum way, way too well to stick my neck out even half this far for a scum buddy. If I were a C-Worl buddy, I'd be on his wagon.

The switch to a Charlie vote was based on a few posts back, I forgot to switch off of FB and the votecount reminded me. A wagon that I've been a leader in propagating, you'll recall, not just any old "leading wagon."

Now, are you done with the Town vs Town? I'll read a real C-Worl case and make a decision based off of that if you come up with one, provided you accept that my vote on Charlie, though you disagree with it, has at least some merit.

[Pine]

And I also said that of all the people here, C-Worl, tclawren, and I have the most exposure to jindori. A policy vote from any of the three of us has solid, experience-based basis.

And I play scum way, way too well to stick my neck out even half this far for a scum buddy. If I were a C-Worl buddy, I'd be on his wagon.

The switch to a Charlie vote was based on a few posts back, I forgot to switch off of FB and the votecount reminded me. A wagon that I've been a leader in propagating, you'll recall, not just any old "leading wagon."

Now, are you done with the Town vs Town? I'll read a real C-Worl case and make a decision based off of that if you come up with one, provided you accept that my vote on Charlie, though you disagree with it, has at least some merit.

Line 1: Self Meta.
Line 2: Self Meta
Line 3: If you were a leader in propagating the wagon, why did you leave it? Why is that wagon suddenly so much better now? Where was your reason for switching back in your vote post?
Line 4: You aren't allowed to call our interactions Town vs. Town. You can say you have a town read, but this post reeks of appeasement. Also, I need to accept that your Charlie vote has merit? Nope! More

appeasement!

Self Meta is useless. If I have to explain to you WHY it is useless, I'm going to cry.

Line 1: Not self meta, exposition. I have experience (that tclaw and C-Worl share) with jindori that made a jindori policy vote extremely tempting right out of the gate. As it was, I found someone else who seemed scummier to me for my first vote.
Line 2: I'll cop to this being self meta. What seems obvious to me about my playstyle wouldn't seem obvious to you.
Line 3: I left the Charlie wagon because I thought the Fuzzy Beavers case needed attention, briefly interrupted by suspicion of Acronach. At no point did I stop propagating the Charlie case. My reason for switching back was in this post. The vote switch was intended to be at the end of 438, but I forgot until reminded by vote count.
Line 4: I have a stated Town read on you, and I'm positive of my Town alignment, so yes. I think our little tiff is Town vs Town. "Accept my argument's merits" was more of an exasperation thing for disputing the obvScum I see in Charlie. Not dissimilar from what you're likely feeling out of my defense of C-Worl.

That said, you've finally posted a decent case on C-Worl that isn't predicated on one medium-strength point and one weak point. Charlie is still a bigger scum read for me, my vote isn't moving.

Pine

-- I answered your question in my last post, and your response was rather unexciting. And by unexciting, I mean that you continued to call me out as a lurker (though I've provided content) and seem to be continuing to be expressing suspicion of me, but your expressions are becoming increasingly vague. What was your opinion of my response and overall opinion on my posting in general?

Your response was weak, but not so incredibly bad that I thought it deserved further comment.

I find you to be lurky, suspicious, and vague. I thought that was clear.

[Pine]

Bastard mod roleclaim sounds bastard moddy. And really, really hard to just make up. Out of C-Worl, who has never played a bastard mod game (to my knowledge,) that just seems too unique to fake. I would expect a fakeclaim out of him to be just a combination of somewhat normal modifiers combined in a bastard-y way with as obscure a character as he would think is plausible. But Obi-Wan Kenobi? With a unique power that makes sense?

No. C-Worl is Town. Fully believable claim trumps moderate-strength case. I am willing to stake myself as a primary D2 suspect on this. I know C-Worl, and (no offense, bro) he couldn't have made that up on his own.

[Pine]

I anticipate your apology. I like daffodils and dark chocolate. Teddy bears would not be amiss.

Raivann's recent posts have me convinced. He's a good alternative to Charlie or jindori, and one I think we can all agree on.

[Pine]

Because that's the only thing you've done all game that was Pro-Town, Raivann. And I was referring to the few posts before that. Besides, jumping off the wagon when you did, it smells strongly (in context with your sheeping onto his wagon) of wanting to say "See? I believed him!" when he flips Town.

[Pine]

^I support this plan.

[Pine]

...Because it starts with a lynch of you. I like that it guarantees us information that can reveal further information about the relationship between other people.

UNVOTE: Charlie
VOTE: Raivann

[Pine]

I don't particularly like C-Worl for the mudslinging job he did on LLD, calling her scum and such. However he could only get that claim from a PM, so it's either his role or it was a counter claim that was given to him.

The only other person with significant C-Worl experience (I think) agrees with me. Unless you'd like to magically assume all three of us are scumbuddies, which pushes probability a bit too far, just trust us on this. C-Worl isn't clever enough to make that up on his own.

No offense, bro.

[Pine]

@Acronach: Why questioning softclaims is not anti-Town has been discussed.

Wagon on Raivann, gogogo.

[Pine]

In for a penny in for a pound, tclawren. Especially when I had a gut sense that the C-Worl wagon was wrong but didn't have anything to back it. Now I do. Why not lay down a vote if you think the Raivann case is good?

[Pine]

It isn't my job to tunnel through the thread archives for you. It's your job to keep up.

I'll give you a break this time. Here's my summary of it: Link

[Pine]

It isn't my job to tunnel through the thread archives for you. It's your job to keep up.

I'll give you a break this time. Here's my summary of it: Link

Thought you said summarys were useless and a waste of time hypocrite.

Summarizing pages of material by yourself and others while putting your own spin on it is a waste of time and somewhat scummy, depending on the amount of bias. Linking someone to a summary of your own thoughts on a subject is not.

[Pine]

Likewise, my sympathies.

[Pine]

Hey, GreyICE. Vote for Raivann, it's a guaranteed D1 scum lynch.

[Pine]

20a.

Although this is a bastard game, we promise three things. First, the mod is not a player. Second, there are no mechanics that involve changing win conditions. If you start as town, you'll win with town, and vice versa. Third, there are no jesters.

I choose to believe he's just bad scum.

As for the wagon on C-Worl, odds are that there's scum on there, but I think Ladyλδ is just misguided.

@Ladyλδ: ^ Grey has C-Worl experience too. Trust us here.

[Pine]

Pine is very scummy, especially with this. You just cannot "guarantee" a scum lynch unless you're fellow scum bussing a partner.

Did you really actually say this? Have you never heard of colloquialisms? Or hyperbole? Of course I don't

know

that Raivann is scum, but I'm willing to stake that much certainty on it, too. You didn't accuse me of being Masons with C-Worl when I expressed similar certainty of his innocence.

GreyICE is probTown, but dude, you need to work on obsessive posting. I'm trying, you can make an effort too.

[Pine]

Link to Walking Dead? Now I'm curious.

Also, I've seen GI act this way as Town.

[Pine]

Actually, here it is.

GI, Pine and C-Worl.

That's a scum team, maybe one more I'm missing.

Just sayin'

No.

Your composure seems to crack easily, milady. One vote against you, and you flip?

[Pine]

Not even a little bit, Lady. It is far from coincidence that all four people (I notice you conveniently forget tclawren) who've played with C-Worl before find his claim believable, and that he probably couldn't have come up with that on his own. Personally, I think you suffer from a particularly nasty case of tunnel vision and confirmation bias, and are having a hard time re-examining the case objectively.

I "buddy" GreyICE because I know him to be level-headed, I agree with him, and I've developed a good rapport with him elsewhere.

Oh, and Walking Dead? Fucked up game. You should read it, Ladyλδ, GI acted the same way in the beginning as he has in his first few posts here.

[Pine]

@LLD: GI isn't scum, your painful flailing is only going to hurt yourself...

@GI: LLD might well be scum(her defense is painful, and the setup speculation hits me as a little off in retrospect), she's still not today's lynch with Raivann about...

QFT, well-articulated.

Careful, Zyrconium. She might put you on our scumteam. She

did

leave room to add at least one more.

@GI: Raivann is a good compromise lynch. C-Worl is being framed, no one can agree on Charlie or jindori, and Raivann is a viable candidate that almost everyone agrees is probscum.

[Pine]

Zyrc isn't scum.

But your slander is noted Pine

Libel, technically. And sarcasm is generally not considered that, either.

[Pine]

Vote for Raivann, Amrun. It's a I'm-pretty-damn-sure-and-so-is-everyone-else scum lynch.

See why the word "guaranteed" worked there?

[Pine]

Hrm. Forgot the "something strange" bit. I believe it, though not that there's no indication of whether it is positive or negative for Town. Could be as simple as a Vengeful modifier, but unlikely given the unique powers we've heard claimed.

Curious.

[Pine]

my votes on GI. all im doing is questioning you about your opinion, an opinion which noone else in this game seems to share.

Me, Pine, C-Worl scumteam?

No, the opinion that Raivann is obvtown.

[Pine]

I'm not sure what case Grey might have but it's fun to see him get LLD so worked up over it.

Just die already.

GI, are you gonna start playing the game? You're not helping the situation any.

I was once like you are now, and I know that it's not easy,
To be calm when you've found something going on.
But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.

You're really making me question my support. If you actually have one, I expect your case on Ladyλδ to be your next post.

Alternatively, if you have a post restriction of some kind, please explain it.

[Pine]

But that brings me to pine he jumps on the big wagons except one cworls. He was a major supporter of the raivann lynch. Pushed a policy lynched hard. His done everything in his power to shut down people posts on cworl. I think the raivann lynch was just a ruse to get people of cworls case.

I have

not

jumped on big wagons, that is a

lie

. I have helped to

start

and

propagate

the two big wagons I've been a part of, and that is vastly different than the opportunism you're trying to implicate me of. I have defended C-Worl at first because I thought the case against him was overstated and weak, and more recently because I very strongly believe in his Town claim. Finally, only one or two people have expressed any faith in Raivann as Town, and nearly everyone that has commented believes Raivann to be scum. With a fractured vote, Raivann still seems to be the best compromise, one almost everyone can agree upon.

[Pine]

@jindori: You may have voted for Charlie before me, but honestly, that's more like points in Charlie's favor. If Umbrage came out and said I sheeped onto him, he might have a reasonable chance of being taken seriously, as he was definitely in and serious before I was.

Pine's just more or less claiming to be Fonzi. Definite null.

...What?

[Pine]

@mod
haven't seen a vote count in a while. you there?

It's been less than 8 hours. Nevertheless, a vote count every 5 pages is good, I've lost track too. MoI's lack of a vote despite having a scum list is notable.

Acronach (5) - Amrun, Empking, GreyICE, Ladyλδ, Raivann
Amrun (1) - Acronach
Charlie (4) - Fuzzy Beavers, C-Worl, Umbrage, Nobody Special
Cojin (1) - RICO ACT
C-Worl (5) - Cojin, jindori, PimHel, Cicada, implosion
jindori (1) - Occult
Ladyλδ (1) - SharkFinn
Pine (1) - vezokpiraka
Raivann (4) - Pine, tclawren, Charlie, Zyrconium

Not Voting (1) - MagnaofIllusion

[Pine]

You pointed a finger at half the people playing this game. Calling it OMGUS when they eventually vote for you based on legitimate reasons is a lame, very scummy defense.

Acronach could be a good alternative lynch. I'll hop on the wagon if there's nothing else compelling by morning. I think we should be moving towards a lynch at this point.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Assuming the time scale stays the same, and time keeps moving at the same rate during night phases, and assuming we make a lynch in the next day or so, we'll end up around 9 "hours" a lynch. That SHOULD leave us plenty of time to get to endgame before the hard game deadline. However, if time speeds up, as we anticipate it might, I think we need to back what time we can.

[Pine]

Acronach is town. OMGUS is not a valid scumtell. NOTE HOW RAIVANN HOPS RIGHT ONTO THE BANDWAGON AGAIN. Pine does this too. Interesting.

OMGUS is not a valid scumtell, but the other stuff Acronach has done lately may be.

I still prefer Raivann as the lynch, but there has been no movement on that wagon (at all) in almost 6 pages.

[Pine]

Raivann is town

How d'you figure?

[Pine]

Can I also have some links to support this meta read of Raivann? Thanks.

This game seems to be the one GI is using the most for the Raivann meta. I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. There's some merit to what GI's saying, based on that game.

[Pine]

Btw, permission is still given for you to give full details of your opinion about Empking's Jindori-vote.

I've twice given my opinion on this matter. The fact that my answer doesn't fit the narrow confines of what you were expecting or desiring is not my problem.

[Pine]

MoI's lack of a vote despite having a scum list is notable.

What is notable about it? Are you suggesting that it’s scummy to spend two hours catching up with the thread and then not immediately throw down a vote? That’s the clear inference. Which is why you’re scum. Because you are afraid to come on out and directly say it. Afraid of being labelled of OMGUS after I called you scum?

Town doesn’t have a reason to beat around the bush using soft attacks. Way to claim scum Pine. Good job.

Acronach

could be a good alternative lynch

. I'll hop on the wagon

if there's nothing else compelling by morning

. I think we should be moving towards a lynch at this point.

Testing the waters, as bolded. What compelling do you expect in approximately 12 RL hours?

I think we should be moving towards a lynch also – yours

Vote: Pine

Notable (in context): Curious, unusual, odd, noteworthy. In your post preceding the first quote, you rattled off several scum reads, some of which seemed rather strong. I found it odd that you refrained from voting for any of them. If I had found it outright scummy, I'd have said so. I don't

do

soft attacks. Not my style.

In regards to the "testing the waters" bit, I admit to being uncertain at the time of posting. I'm still not certain, especially given what just occurred to me (see below.) That quote was a

direct challenge

(see above) to Acronach to make with the convincing defense, as his detractors were starting to convince me. Despite the implied timetable of the quote, I had no real intention of sticking to "as soon as I get up" or anything like that. I'd have given him another chance to post. He has posted since then, and I am neither impressed nor swayed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Something happened

I noticed I had a PM from the mod upon logging on. A power role of some kind was used on me, and it is compelling my vote. It suggested I would be able to resist this compulsion, but hinted that there might be dire consequences for doing so. I asked her if I was permitted to share the fact that I'd received such a compulsion, and she replied (quickly, for which I thank her) in the affirmative. It just occurred to me to ask whether I am later allowed to change my vote without incurring consequences, and I'll be asking that as soon as I submit this post.

I have elected not to risk the implied consequences at this time. VOTE: Acronach

Personally, I feel this power was used in an effort to heighten the suspicions that are currently on me, in line with MoI's accusation that I responded to above. In no way do I feel this clears Acronach, as there are probably multiple scum teams.

[Pine]

Yes. There was the implication that I could resist if I chose, but that that would potentially be very unwise.

[Pine]

Damn it.

Just received confirmation that the mandate lasts until the end of the game day. Whoever you are, damn you. I like being able to move my vote around at will to stir shit up, and you've robbed me of that.

[Pine]

Pine

do you think Acro is scum based on the action that's been used against you?

.

Personally, I feel this power was used in an effort to heighten the suspicions that are currently on me, in line with MoI's accusation that I responded to above. In no way do I feel this clears Acronach, as there are probably multiple scum teams.

In other words, I suspect at least two scum teams, and wouldn't be shocked by three or even four with third party roles. I think Acro's guilt or innocence is mutually exclusive with the vote-forcing. It could be motivated by any number of things. Rushing a bus, scum trying to eliminate other scum, scum trying to get a kill on someone they think is Town, Town trying to increase the odds of a lynch on someone they think is scum...speculation on the forcer's motives is WIFOM supreme. Hell, it's entirely possible that the forcer's motive was partially or wholly to make me look scummy following my poorly-phrased challenge to Acronach. There's a sizable chance they didn't expect me to be so open and blunt about the fact that my hand was being forced.

To answer your question directly, I don't think the action has any significant or knowable bearing on the case against Acro. As I was before the vote-force, I remain highly suspicious of Acronach, given his posting of the last few days, but lacking in definitive proof. I'm less comfortable with his case than I am with the cases against Charlie or Raivann, but he just hasn't produced anything to drive my suspicion away.

@MoI: You're suffering from confirmation bias. You misinterpreted a poorly-worded post, and made a decision.

[Pine]

Metro replaces Cicada. Thank you and welcome!

Thanks. So unless you guys think I should read 36 pages of text. I'm gonna start formulating my judgements off of what goes on from here on out. okay?

Questions for you:

1) Why was your predecessor obvscum
2) do you think we'll forget if you're obvscum too?
3) We'll give you 2 days of no noose per buddy outed. Deal?

I lol'd, Grey.

Read the thread, Metro.

[Pine]

I've recently lost a couple of games, and barely won another, due to my aggressiveness. It still works for me, but I'm trying to pare it back a notch or two.

As for continuing aggressive pushing on D1, I like the Charlie and Raivann trains much better than Acronach in third, but I'm being compelled to go in that direction. Compulsion =/= enthusiasm

[Pine]

I agree. Like I've said before, I expect time to speed up on us as we get closer to deadline. The thread is starting to stagnate, and we could use some hard information.

Though I prefer some of the other candidates, I'm sure vigs or someone will take care of one or two of them.

Today's lynch is Acronach. Let's be done with this. We only need a couple more votes, so if you're pushing a lynch that is obviously not going to happen today, re-evaluate the real candidates and get off your ass.

People parking their votes on "safe" non-lynches will be scrutinized on D2.

@Mod

: Can we get a vote and time update?

[Pine]

Acronach (8)

- Empking, GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta, Amrun, C-Worl, vezokpiraka, Zyrconium, Pine

C-Worl (5)

- Cojin, jindori, PimHel, Cicada, implosion

Raivann (2)

- tclawren, Charlie

Charlie (2)

- Fuzzy Beavers, Nobody Special

Pine (1)

- MagnaofIllusion, Umbrage <--Safe vote

Metro (1)

- Raivann <--Safe vote

Cojin (1)

- RICO ACT <--Safe vote

jindori (1)

- Occult <--Safe vote

Lady Lambdadelta (1)

- SharkFinn <--Safe vote

Amrun (1)

- Acronach <--Safe vote

Safe vote = Not going to happen, safe place to store your vote and not step on toes

I'm pushing the Acronach wagon because

I'm being forced to

. Plus, he's my solid third choice and there are

more than three scum in this game.

[Pine]

I have no idea, Grey. The PM did not elaborate and was quite as cryptic as the theme implies. For all I know, it could just be "Your skin turns blue. Nothing else happens." Or it could be "You and everyone you have voted for explode." Hey, that last one wouldn't suck, and would be worth my death.

[Pine]

To what end? The Acronach lynch is just fine, and I don't have a compelling reason to take those kinds of chances with a confirmed Townie's life. Besides, in a game like this, it'd probably have randomized consequences, so testing it wouldn't help.

Besides, this game is awesome, and from a player's perspective, I don't want to be on the sidelines just yet.

[Pine]

@MoI: The Charlie and Raivann wagons have or have had large following and cohesive cases that make sense. The wagon on me does not. Both have had much larger wagons that are just dwindling in popularity due to more viable candidates. Votes on the two of them are wasted, at this point, but are not "safe" votes.

"You're wrong because you're wrong" (which I admit is a bit of an oversimplification of your attack on Grey) is textbook confirmation bias.

[Pine]

If you hadn't noticed, I went hard after Charlie and Raivann earlier in the thread. While there was support, and abundant scumvibes from people, the consensus was to leave them for the vigs. If there were renewed interest, I'd campaign on behalf of those lynches.

Will answer MoI's points later. I don't have time to wade through all that bullshit, I'm writing a 10-page paper in 4 hours. Fuck you, procrastination! -_-

[Pine]

Sounds like he did a quick Google search when he didn't have a name for his claim, and that he'd be required to supply one.

Notice that Kasparov is the only person listed in the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article on chess.

[Pine]

Found another flaw. Assuming the claim is true, the whole "challenge based on IQ" thing doesn't make any sense. The way I imagine it working is assessing the relative intelligences of the role, and mod picking a winner. Here's the flaw.

Einstein would lose to Kasparov in a chess match. Unless we have Deep Blue or another supercomputer in the lineup (though the possibility of some kind of AI as a role is plausible), that would render the whole contest idea meaningless.

Bad fakeclaim.

Previous misgivings are gone.

Confirm Vote: Acronach

PE: Gary Kasparov would have been the name of the role. Not "the chess guy".

[Pine]

Zyrconium committed suicide, dude. Then again, it is a bmod with superpowered roles...

I'd like to hear from the replacements.

[Pine]

Nifty, GI. Get anything last night that you'd like to share?

[Pine]

Umm, a D1 lynch who appears to have been Mafia, given the win condition revealed by his death.

@Magister: My vote was forced ("mandated" was the phrase used in the PM) onto Acronach. I do not lament having that forced upon me, though, as it seems that he was some kind of Mafia flavor role cop.

Read the thread, please, and tell us what you think.

[Pine]

I sit near the edge of the room, looking at the people squabbling with each other. Garry Kasporov's body is on the altar, a reminder that more killing is to be done.

“Why do I try to fit in with these folks, I do not belong with them. I do not care at all who the mafia is. And who is this Garry Kasporov and Nikanor anyway? I miss the days when I would spend my time with real men (and women) like the Starks. But alas, I must spend my time with these strange people until my task is done. Three must die.”

I am Jaqen H'ghar [from A Game of Thrones], a One-shot Bulletproof Triple Reflex Contract-maker Conditional Double Voter. When someone targets me they have to send in a name. This is the name of the person they want to die. My vote then turns into a double vote on that person. I win the game win three of these contract have been filled and I will leave the game.

The game will continue.

I am claiming now, because I do not see why anyone will want to kill me. In fact, I wanted to claim last twilight but it I missed my opportunity. I believe that my role is beneficial to every single party and will play this as a true third party not taking sides. I will also not vote for anyone unless I can hammer on someone I have a contract on. Basically play it as you normally would and if you get to L-2 on someone and you have put in a contract to me then you have a lynch. Makes things easier, eh?

I don't think anyone should kill me because I plan on leaving this god forsaken place very soon. You will be wasting a kill if you decide to kill me since I leave the game if my wincon is reached. plus I have that bulletproof thing, so you will really be wasting a kill. I help all sides as far as I can see.

I leave it up to the town to decide what to do with this info.

The bolded is the part that gives me the heebie-jeebies. He could be completely telling the truth...except that one line. Hell. I think it's what I'd do.

[Pine]

Pine, you are so going to suffer for recruiting me to join this ass backwards game. Oh, good news. I just completed a game with Pine where he's scum. So, I now have meta I can use. I'm going to reread this thread and that thread to see if I see any similarities.

Completed game with me as Town. For contrast, to help you out in your quest. I think you'll find that my style is not significantly dependent on my alignment.

[Pine]

Perhaps a little, I'll cop to that. The Town game was a perfect scum win, so the conceit is more in my acting ability, rather than my scumhunting skills.

[Pine]

Yeah, I'm okay with a jindori lynch on multiple levels now. Scumslips ahoy.

Not so comfortable with a MoI lynch. Tunneling obvtown.

Full post later, on my phone at work.

VOTE: jindori

[Pine]

@Tclawren are we allowed to say were there from i can tell you the roles again. well anyway here's the coloured bit. Before i got my vist Saddest Turtle [from buttersafe.com], Depressing Lonely

Amphibian

. To this after shark visted me, Saddest Turtle [from buttersafe.com], Motivating Happy

Amphibian

. Apprently only my flavor changed when my role changed kicks mods gently.

Turtles are reptiles.

This is a mistake I would expect from someone of jindori's caliber while fakeclaiming.

It is not a mistake I would expect from someone of Cuttlefish's caliber while crafting roles.

Fakeclaim = Scum

Further, the idea that jindori and Shark just

happened

to have roles from the same source stretches credulity. (Oh hey, TC ninja'd me on this.)

My vote stays on jindori.

HOS: Shark

[Pine]

@Shark: No. I want jindori to explain it. That has all the look of a major slip by scum, and I'd rather the one who made it defend it, rather than his more agile buddy.

[Pine]

Class: Reptilia

Being amphibious does not make you an amphibian.

LLD may or may not be scum (my read on her is schizophrenic) but her (very incorrect) defense of the amphibian/reptile fakeclaim slip is not a tell of any kind. She'd have to be completely high to defend those two right now.

[Pine]

Crap, quote tags fix?

[Pine]

Turtles are

reptiles

of the order Testudines (the crown group of the superorder Chelonia), characterised by a special bony or cartilaginous shell developed from their ribs that acts as a shield.

Bold is my emphasis.

Fail, LLD.

[Pine]

Arguing about flavor is just fine in this context. If I claimed Rand Al'Thor from the Forgotton Realms novels, I'd be fakeclaiming. Obviously so, too.

[Pine]

Pine, Reptile does not imply not Amphibious.

Did you graduate high school Biology? Amphibians are all amphibious. Not all amphibious creatures are amphibians. There's a very, very big difference, and I either caught jindori or Cuttlefish/Nikanor in a "Did not do the research" moment. I feel it is infinitely more likely to have been jindori who screwed up.

[Pine]

Pine, did the role not say "Amphibious", rather than "Amphibian"?

@Tclawren are we allowed to say were there from i can tell you the roles again. well anyway here's the coloured bit. Before i got my vist Saddest Turtle [from buttersafe.com], Depressing Lonely

Amphibian

. To this after shark visted me, Saddest Turtle [from buttersafe.com], Motivating Happy

Amphibian

. Apprently only my flavor changed when my role changed kicks mods gently.

Fakeclaim is fake.

Why are people not voting for jindori at this point? Shark is at least remotely possible, as he may have revealed his role to jindori in this theoretical QT and jindori faked off of that, but far more likely is them as a team.

[Pine]

@jindori: I didn't invite C-Worl, I advertised in every game I was playing in. Nor do I hate you, I just despise how you ruin the game with offering modkillable offenses when things start to go south for you.

@GI, jindori screwed up the flavor of his fakeclaim. I do not believe Nikanor would have screwed up in this fashion.

[Pine]

Yeah, here's the problem with the last two posts.

According to Shark's story, he would have no way of actually knowing for sure that jindori is Town.

jindori's premise is reliant on seeing the alignment that someone flips as, which we don't.

This is desperation scum tactics.

[Pine]

Okay, I had hesitated to let this go, but I have empirical evidence as to the fact that Shark, at least, has lied. By connection, this condemns jindori

I roleblocked Shark last night.

I figured Shark, who had been useless to Town and might have just been lurking scum, would be a good place to target that block. Further, there is more evidence that I am withholding because I would rather not reveal my full role.

Shark and jindori are scum together, because this post right here is a complete scam. Shark could not possibly have carried out the action he claims.

I prefer jindori as a lynch because of the additional reasons mentioned before, and because is annoying as fuck and I'd rather he go first.

[Pine]

Yep. Actually, I did.

My roleblocking ability is quite conditional and ancillary to my primary power. However, I would have been informed had it failed. I continue to be reticent to elaborate on my full powers because, like perhaps all of us, I'd rather use them when and where they'll do the most good.

[Pine]

If the Town wills it, however, I will fullclaim.

@Magister: Is that directed at jindori?

[Pine]

Part of my ability entails that I would know if I were roleblocked, Raivann.

Like I said, jindori, the roleblock is actually an ancillary part of my ability. It is a time-delayed effect,

during which time

, they are roleblocked.

And I have never misquoted you, nor misrepresented.

Re-Voting jindori over Shark: I have a very good reason that I prefer not to share. Outing that reason would be detrimental to both me and Town.

[Pine]

Yeah, I'm not concerned, jindori. Your role might be Saddest Turtle, but I definitely RBed Shark, and therefore his ability definitely did not hit you.

[Pine]

You have a QT with him because he's your scumbuddy, dude. I can maybe see that "my role changes if I get targeted" thing being real, as the best lies are based in truth, but it wasn't Shark. Or perhaps...

@Mod

: If a reactive power says "If targeted by a power," does it still go off if the targeting person is roleblocked?

Also, did anyone actually target jindori with a power?

PE: Dammit, C-Worl, you ninja'd one of my points. That's the second time you've done that today.

[Pine]

No, that would be stupid. And I give Shark more credit than that.

[Pine]

Oh hey! Another lie exposed!

[Pine]

Which you didn't get until this morning?

[Pine]

I'm done sparring with jindori. It feels like wrestling a child, and is just spamming the thread now. Lies have been exposed, let's just get the lynch over with.

[Pine]

No, it isn't, actually. All it says is that such a hypothetical ability wouldn't be blocked. And Cuttlefish didn't answer my question.

Clarification @Mod:

Person A has a (P) ability that is triggered when someone targets them with an ability, any ability. Person B targets them with an ability, but the ability fails because Person C roleblocks person B. Does Person A's (P) ability go off?

[Pine]

Would you like some syrup with your waffle, Raivann?

Either way Cuttlefish responds, it doesn't change anything at all about the other things. The QT that was supposedly formed was roleblocked, condemning both of them, and jindori has been caught in several smaller lies.

[Pine]

Ding! Thank you for confirming, jindori. You ought to have followed your buddy's lead and said "Yes."

[Pine]

No. What we're saying is that you're full of weapons-grade bullshit.

[Pine]

Good news, everyone! [/Farnsworth]

It does not appear that time is speeding up on us (yet). Just went over Cuttlefish's announcement of the game time, and it appears to be advancing at the same 1 game hour/1 RL day rate.

[Pine]

Ding! And there's the admission.

Please don't vig Shark. Just...trust me on this. I have a very, very good reason for this request, which I will explain on D3.

[Pine]

There's at least one set of rules in which QTs are open at all times. And this is a B-Mod game.

[Pine]

1. Caught in multiple lies
2. "Confirms" a confirmed scum's story
3. Is desperately (and badly) defended by confirmed scum
4. Is useless for the Town
5. Does not scumhunt
6. Posts more fluff than a pile of goose down

If something looks like a duck, acts, like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it's probably a duck.

[Pine]

Seriously? Shark's dropped several hints to jindori, and jindori has failed to pick up on them. Lack of coordination is from fail, not from lack of trying.

[Pine]

Seriously? I go away for a little while and we're not lynching jindori anymore?

1) jindori has repeatedly lied about and changed his claim. His current claim includes that there was a reflexive QT set up when SharkFinn targeted him
2) Reflexive abilities have been shown to be part of the descriptive flavor. Notice that tclawren's claim includes the word "Reflexive"
3) I roleblocked SharkFinn. The alleged Neighbors QT could NOT have been set up from his side
4) When roleblocked, it has been MOD CONFIRMED that jindori's claimed ability would NOT have been triggered by SharkFinn targeting him
5) SharkFinn's ability has been roleblocked, and jindori's claimed reflexive ability is therefore bullshit
6) Even had someone else triggered jindori's ability (and I asked for claimants; none have come forward) the reflexive QT would be opened to them
7) Shark dropping hints to jindori in the thread directly contradicts their claim that the QT is daytalk. Why would he bother doing this if he had a daytalk QT to use?
8) The several problems with jindori's smaller lies, his fumbled fakeclaim flavor, and ever-changing claims of his abilities
9) The remarkable implausibility of both jindori and SharkFinn randomly being assigned two characters from the same source, whose flavor matches one another so perfectly

Now, vote for jindori, and if Shark is alive tomorrow, he's next. They are both confirmed as scum.

PE-@tclawren: They claimed that not to be the case.

[Pine]

@Pine
Problems: Why claim QT discussions preemptively. And if the Daytalk was true, why isn't there coordination. Your points can only be boiled down to:

1. Jin mishandled the claim poorly. And still is.
2. Sharkfin claimed that he doesn't make QTs, but he believed that his message ability that sends PMS (which failed) caused the QT to be made. That's reads as someone who did a reading fail.

Everything else:

1. Sharkfinn's action failed, which means it confirms you.
2. And your insistent that people can't come from the same flavour is poor. Especially when flavour is random. Oh my god, 2 roles (one example role) flipped from real life. It's impossible that Nikanor included more role names from real life. That's not an argument.
3. Jin didn't claim reflexive last time I checked. :S I'll reread that to confirm.

Dude, THEY'RE the ones claiming Daytalk. The lack of coordination and the in-thread hinting from Shark to jindori are part of the evidence FOR them as scum, not against. jindori didn't just handle his claim poorly, he lied about it. Repeatedly. And then changed his story to cover it up.

DTM, you've repeatedly made claims and referenced things that aren't true. You need a re-read.

Jindori is probably town now that the pine/shark finn business has been kind of sorted out. My first reaction was to believe them anyway.

No, it isn't sorted out. And jindori is NOT Town. How the hell do you still think this?

[Pine]

That whole post you posted was all

misrep

true information.

Fixed that for you.

No, it isn't sorted out. And jindori is NOT Town. How the hell do you still think this?

Never mind, I think I figured it out. Observe:

Clarification @Mod:

Person A has a (P) ability that is triggered when someone targets them with an ability, any ability. Person B targets them with an ability, but the ability fails because Person C roleblocks person B. Does Person A's (P) ability go off?

No.

Clarification @Mod:

Person A has a (P) ability that is triggered when someone targets them with an ability, any ability. Person B targets them with an ability, but the ability fails because Person C roleblocks person B. Does Person A's (P) ability go off?

No.

Really?

Hmmmm

LLD recognizes and reacts to the fact that one of jindori's claims was just Mod-disproven.

Fuck this. DO PINE'S ACTIONS CONDEMN SHARK FINN AND JINDORI OR NOT? YES OR NO, PLEASE, FROM AN UNINVOLVED PARTY.

At the moment, no.

LLD throws you off jindori and Shark's trail

PE@FB: I'm 100% sure you're wrong. They didn't initially claim it as Daytalk, that came after the roleblock was announced. I'll do the research on this, as you seem too lazy to do it yourself.

[Pine]

Pine... Your RB on Shark has no effect on Jin.

It doesn't confirm that they are lying.

The QT was creates passively by Jin.

SharkFinn was correctly RB'd, as you said. His message didn't go through.

So, no. Your action doesn't confirm shit.

Doesn't mean they aren't scum.

I'm reading more of a: "I think Jin and Sharkfin are fail reading" because all the claimed are confirmable, and it was preemptively claimed before the roleblock. I'm going to sleep on it and think about it tomorrow.

Edit: Dude. The claim was done page 52. Both Halves.
You claimed later on page 55 Role block.

At this point

Jin's claim: Poisoner that got changed to 1 Shot day Enabler that used Enable on LLD and poison on Pim hel
Shark claimed he 1 shot messaged Jin and made a QT.
Jin believes Shark made the QT (he's in it) and he changed the role.
Jin claims on behalf of Shark their role names.
Shark claimed that the QT resolved at the start of D2.

The main change after the RB claim was

Shark and Jin claimed: Jin didn't get a message but assumed the message was a QT.

Where'd the QT come from, then? Shark was roleblocked, and jindori's original claim on Page 52 makes zero mention of any kind of communication ability.

Further, how did jindori's role change, as Shark's targeting of him was NOT the activating power?

[Pine]

Pine: scum would not kill pimhel. When pimhel dies and lld gets an extra action, we can confirm that that part went through which will mean the rest is probably true.

For now, I'd rather focus on pressuring lurking scum like Metro and Magistar.

Confirming LLD's boost is reliant on her word alone. Please note that she has not said anything about receiving a boost of any kind, and as it is a day phase ability, she would have. On D1, I was targeted by a day phase ability and immediately received notification.

Why wouldn't scum kill PimHel?

[Pine]

Just got home from visiting friends and relatives over Easter weekend. Will catch up fully this evening.

How in Buddha's name do you people see jindori as Town? My vote stays on him, and I will not be bullied or manipulated onto someone else.

[Pine]

How in Buddha's name do you people see jindori as Town? My vote stays on him, and I will not be bullied or manipulated onto someone else.

Because he acts like town.
Odd phrasing, on your part. Who do you think is bullying or manipulating you?

Also: What do you think of Nobody Special, Pine? Town, scum, indifferent?

Town does not lie to Town without a good reason. And jindori has not presented reasonable explanations for most of the lies he's been caught in.

I recall there being several posts made back when the Nobody Special wagon was getting started that anyone keeping their vote on jindori was likely scum. They're buried and I don't really feel like digging through the spam to find them, though I will if you insist.

I've been away this weekend, and only just barely following along. Until you actually asked that question, I was thinking with the herd, that NS was probably a good lynch, because that post restriction looked odd and forced. However, getting asked directly led me to ISO him, and I find it strains credulity to think that he would let the massively mounting wagon on him go

completely unanswered

if the restriction were faked.

Whether he is scum or not...I have no idea. There's not enough to get a read in either direction. I do know that a wagon this size doesn't build up this fast and this hard based on a single post whose biggest flaw is odd wording. Not unless there's scum driving the wagon.

I'm going to go through the push against NS later this evening and narrow that scum down for you.

[Pine]

Especially people you've sworn up and down are Town.

SharkFinn + jindori = Scumbuddies

[Pine]

Hrm. Nobody Special, you appear to be headed for today's lynch.

Please claim, including your night (or day) actions where applicable.

[Pine]

Nobody Special, nothing happened to you when you broke post restriction. Explain this.

[Pine]

Shit.

Given LLD, odds of there being a scum redirector?

Greater than 50%.

Redirector
Bus Driver
anything like that

Make NS a liability.

Shit.

Vote: Nobody Special

Dammit.

Sorry friend, I wanna keep you around, but you're just too dangerous.

MoI convinces me without even trying.

This is an outstanding point.

UNVOTE: jindori
VOTE: Nobody Special

[Pine]

The ability is odd-night only and is subject to a few other conditions as well. I think someone questioned how it could be so powerful and not be unbalanced, there you have it. Limited use and conditional, and I lose it completely if certain conditions are met. It's compulsory as long as I have it though.

[Pine]

Happy scumday, Nikanor.

[Pine]

If Surye, Amrun, and jindori are all alive tomorrow, we'll re-examine them. Doctors or other protective roles have plenty to go on at this point, and I feel like this day is stretching way too long. I'm still worried that our time rate is going to jump on us, perhaps as soon as the game-time clicks over to April 2nd, which we're getting damn close to. I've got 23:24, +/- a minute or two.

GUESS: Time consumption increases at either a linear rate every game day (D1=1h/1d, D2=2h/1d, D3=3h/1d etc) or an exponential rate, which gets very scary after a little math.

We've got a good lynch for today, let's do this.

[Pine]

Okay, I feel a full claim is appropriate from me now.

I am Dr. Horrible, from Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. I WAS the Town's Obsessive-Compulsive Perfectionist Poisoner. The flavor states that in the wake of my death ray failing, I discovered a powerful ring to let me take my vengeance. Upon Nobody Special's death, I was informed that because the ring had been destroyed, I had lost that power. My only remaining power is an immunity to the other poisoner(s). Other than that, I'm a Vanilla Townie now.

I was compelled to poison someone every odd-numbered night. It resolves at the dawn of the following odd-numbered day. Until the poison resolves, they are roleblocked. If the power gets redirected, it fails to resolve and I lose the ring. I haven't read Toto, but that's where I think the "Master-Choosing" part of Nobody Special's ability comes in. If I'd lost the ring or died, I'm guessing that he'd choose a new master.


I chose SharkFinn because I did not have any truly strong scumreads that I was confident of, and my minor scumreads were people who were otherwise being productive. So I chose someone who was barely posting and not actually being helpful, hoping to minimize the collateral damage and perhaps take out lurking scum (which I still believe I've done.)

Passive ability: I am immune to the effects of other poisoner(s). Hence why I wasn't surprised to see another poisoner claim, I'd been expecting at least one scum poisoner.

A note about Dr. Horrible, for those of you who haven't seen it. Yes, Dr. Horrible is a villain. But hey, we're all serving Cutthulhufish, right? The thing about Dr. Horrible is that he is a completely INEPT villain, and has the emotions and feelings of a good guy, hence the Town alignment.

I was going to push on jindori some more, as I was firmly convinced of his guilt, but it looks like someone saved me the trouble.

[Pine]

Also, Osama Bin Laden was killed by U.S. Special Forces today.

[Pine]

jindori has NOT been shown to be Town, Surye. He wasn't, and I'd like to give whoever killed him a damn medal.

And honestly, I'd have come up with something a little more creative (and not as suspicious) if I were fakeclaiming.

@Raivann: Re-read NS's flip. He was a Combined-Poison-Roleblock

Enabler

. I was, apparently, the one he was enabling.

Bastard mod is bastard.

[Pine]

Are you really that dense? "Combined Poison Roleblock Enabler" means he was enabling my combined poison roleblock ability. He died, I lost it. I had no idea who he was, what his powers were, or that I was even BEING enabled.

[Pine]

Enabler

Not complicated. But, since it's a bastard mod, there's the added fact that he was a serial killer, and the mechanic for me losing the enabling, and having it go to someone else instead.

[Pine]

@Pine

– Some questions for you regarding your claim –

Was your initial role PM that of the Serial Killer linked Poisioner?
If not what was your initial role?

Like I said, I had no idea I was being enabled by the SK. My initial role was as I said, Dr. Horrible. It appears (to my best guess) that NS was able to choose a new master when I lost the power via redirection or if I died. That's probably the "Master-Choosing" part, because having the ring was part of my initial PM. It's just like Dr. Horrible not to understand what he's got, though.

Oh sorry just read. Pine you were the poisoner right since D1? And you lost it when NS died. Is this right?

I've said that a couple of times now.

And we have pine copping to one of those kills and saying that it was b/c he was trying to get rid of a non-poster. This is all good and fine, though, sharkfinn was posting at quite regular intervals, there are most worst non-posters in this game (me yesterday being a prime example) so I don't particularly believe that reasoning. Throw in that unnecessary claim with a clumsy attempt to juggle its flavour to be town (even though in this game the flavour itself should be ignored...) and a blatant WIFOM statement for good measure. MoI does make a decent point that these NKs can't all be scum and I believe its a little coincidental that they both happened to be NKed.

Believe what you want. I came clean because I thought it was in the Town's best interests to solve the mystery of at least one death. Yes, on D2 Shark was posting regularly, but on D1 he posted jack-all (less than you) and it was plausible to me that he was lurking. Besides, what you were posting was more productive than him. I had to poison someone, and I chose someone who, based on D1, wouldn't be missed. I got lucky and poison-vig'd scum.

[Pine]

SharkFinn

- Jolly Octopus

[

from buttersafe.com

], One-Shot Messenger - Succumbed to poison night two.

Shark was not a roleblocker. Neither was I. Conditional odd night poison/roleblock.

[Pine]

Who the hell is Chopin?

All right, I'll admit to having had my poisoning abilities restored. Annoyingly enough, I got the PM from Cuttlefish about power restoration AFTER I'd claimed. (Thanks a lot, mod. Made a liar out of me.) I asked her why they'd been restored, and she wouldn't tell me. Pissed me off, but I decided to stick with what I'd already said for two reasons. First, with my powers restored and the way to deprive me of them known, I'd rather have that power in Town hands rather than someone else's, someone of unknown alignment. Second, it looked really, really bad, and I just didn't want to exacerbate the problem unnecesarily as Fuzzy Beavers has done.

So congratulations, FB. You've just put a very powerful ability back into wildcard status.

[Pine]

I haven't lied about a god damned thing.

I did, however, do a little research on Toto, which is where Nobody Special's role came from.

In Toto, the name of the master of the Basilisk Ring is Chopin. THAT is where you got that name from. Yes, the previous possessor's name was indeed Chopin, followed by Dr. Horrible, followed by nobody, followed by Dr. Horrible.

[Pine]

Also, day start was timestamped 11:28 PM, I came clean in the first post of the day, timestamped 11:44 PM. I followed it up with the announcement about Osama's death, timestamped 11:45 PM, and THAT is when I noticed I had one new message, timestamped 11:45 PM. It simply stated that my powers had been restored. It didn't elaborate, despite a reply requesting clarification. I also notice that there's been no apology from the Mod for their mistake, which has made me look like an ass and may get me mislynched.

Amrun, it means that the name "Chopin" came from the flavor text of Nobody Special's role source. From the limited amount I've been able to find, Chopin was an antagonist using a magic ring, and I think he died at the end? I haven't read it, just second-hand tidbits.

[Pine]

My bad.

BUT YOU STILL HAVEN'T APOLOGIZED TO ME.

[Pine]

At this point I think I want to open a Flicker account just to find a face-palm Pic.

--

@Fuzzy

– So you are directly claiming to have copied a Serial Killer role? Why of all possible roles (including Cop roles out there) would you choose that?

@Pine

– Why should I believe you had the best interests of Town at heart with your initial claim after reading 2048?

Also – anything to say about the following Pine?

I have one more nail in the coffin. Your role, shouldn't be just poisoner. I grant the ability to poison on top of your original role. Therefore the enabler could enable scum to get 2 kills, or enable town to get the poison kill.

Sure. My "original role" at the time FB apparently chose me to receive (again) this poison/roleblock ability was "Immune to Poison". That's it. I didn't gain a second poisoning power, I'd lost my original one. It was either pure coincidence that FB happened to choose me, or he put two and two together based on my half-claim on D2 and decided to give it back.

At this point, I don't think either FB or I are lying about our claims, I think FB is simply wrong about what the flavor states regarding the Chopin character.

Hmm. jindori and Shark are dead, NS turned out to be the SK...time to go back to early reads.

VOTE: Charlie

[Pine]

Also, I finally got my apology from the Mod

[Pine]

And Raivann again jumps on the fastest BW in town.

[Pine]

No one flips Town in this game. That statement of confidence is illusory when it can't be confirmed.

[Pine]

Here comes the scum quickhammer.

[Pine]

And making a real claim look fake is easy. Especially when there's a reasonable explanation for the confusion. Notice the "Amphibian" problem with jindori's flip. Mod mistake appears to be a fakeclaim mistake. This is the exact same thing. Flavor misinterpretation being made to appear as a fakeclaim error.

Why in the hell wouldn't I have just claimed Chopin? It would have been just as good.

[Pine]

I think FB is wrong about what he's saying. I think he's confusing the fluff and flavor of the role with role name.

I already said this. At least twice, I think.

[Pine]

I think that puts me at L-1?

Can't right now, please don't hammer until I can give some final reads. I'd rather they not die with me, though I'm resigned to being quick-mislynched at this point.

[Pine]

[quote="Cuttlefish](P) Imprinted: You may not choose to disown your first master, Chopin.[/quote]
This single line killed me, and perhaps lost the game for the Mafia.

C-Worl, massive props for fighting the good fight.

PE: No worries about that, Nik. I covered that part just fine. It was the Chopin bit that screwed me. Providing a fakeclaim that could be busted...that was bastardly

[Pine]

Mafia QT

I've been dying to answer your question about why I (fake)claimed. I claimed when I did because I knew that "coming clean" about my involvement with Sharkfinn, how it worked, and so forth would be seen as Town-inspired honesty. If you go back to the relevant day (D3?) you'll note that until FB killed my claim, IT WAS WORKING. I think just about everyone between claim and counter gave me the thumbs up.

Had I known I was getting backed up, I might have played it differently, but that didn't matter in the end. I don't know what possessed me to use the provided fakeclaim when the real one would have been just fine. I think it was the fact that I HAD a fakeclaim to use, and that I love Dr. Horrible but had never heard of Chopin.

Sigh.

PE: I agree with C-Worl. A third Mafioso with similar abilities would have been better. Making the Basilisk Ring a full member, for example.

[Pine]

Your wincon also wasn't truly dependent on killing everyone off.

[Pine]

Honestly, when I was defending you D1 I was expecting to fail, have you flip as Town, and get credit for that.

The Godfather/Lawyer combo was pretty weak considering the dearth of actual cops.

[Pine]

^@C-Worl

[Pine]

I've got to hand it to ML, he really did fantastic this game.



Game was very nice, I'd play another game like this in an instant. Cuttlefish, if I don't immediately /in to all your games from this point out, shoot me a PM because it means I haven't seen it.

PE: GI, your criticism is no longer sounding constructive.

[Pine]

I figured there was a specific role suppressing the flips, and that when they died, everything would shift to the correct flips.

[Pine]

BTW, I DESERVE A GODDAMN METAL FOR KILLING JINDORI. YOU AAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE!

Pfft. I was the one who insisted on having you kill jindori, punk.

[Pine]

Yeah. LLD had to die because there was simply too much of a danger that she'd redirect my kill back to one of us.

Also, Pine trying to pretend he was town in the Dead QT is beyond hilarious.

Well, there were tangible ways that the dead QT could still affect the game.

You'll note that even though I didn't manage to fool the one person who mattered, I did indeed derail a shitload of productive conversations. Thanks for helping with that, GI!

[Pine]

Umm. Day 3.

And I'm not sore about it at all. I got fairly caught in a lie, but was determined to fuck with Town as much as I could regardless.

[Pine]

Yeah, looking at it, if that had been used more it would have been awesome.

Who was the mandate that defied you?

[Pine]

Ehh...no, I think ML had a truly badass role.

You'll also notice that C-Worl was the only person not actively targeted for a kill on the final night, and only his redirecting power ended the game. If it had been simple bulletproof, C-Worl would have survived and...I don't know. Mafia/SK shared win? Doesn't fit with ML's role flavor, but they'd be at an impasse.

[Pine]

^Sour grapes

[Pine]

Amrun played a fine game.

[Pine]

Because she got you lynched? Grow up, it isn't all about you. You deserved to get lynched for your scummy Town-play. An investigative role like yours should have been laying low, you were important to the Town's wincon.

[Pine]

Arguing about my flip gave me no end of amusement, and the mods seemed entertained by it too