Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia (Game Over)

[Iecerint]

Hi guys! I'm replacing someone I've barely heard of.

I'm going to go to lab to steal some data ATM, but will come back to show you 1 scum in maybe a few hours idk.

[Iecerint]

Halfway there. This is through the end of page 6:

JOURNAL CATCH

1. Is Amrun making a reference to another game there?

2. GreyICE's miller claim is early and very sophisticated. Also leaves the Cop angle unaddressed. I am inclined to believe him.

3. Ani getting all excited about RNG and Amrun's cult reference is scummy. Is also weird that Ace RVS's SX and then complains about Amrun's actual play.

4. CJ's post is weird: "I think he is not lying, but he may be a scum miller." It's just a weird conditional to throw in there, and I'm all about putting conditionals everywhere.

5. Not sure which town on page 1 SX sees. I guess GreyICE?

6. OOH, CJ is Tar? Who's the other half of CJ, then?

7. Ace's response to CJ's question re: what I complained about above is silly, because SX's posts are relatively unfluffy IMO.

8. Dunno why GreyICE got excited about Kast's questions about his ability. Those are good things to clarify early on.

9. OK, Kast's #27 is kinda creepy, though. I have never seen him do a Big Brother Is Watching You thing like that.

10. SX is town this game (@ 36). I could see Kast as scum in that exchange, though; I think he sees himself as a mechanics-player in part, so the miller claim gave him a means of contributing without worrying about things.

11. Pome's post (41) doesn't make sense to me...at all...Amrun is a town weirdo, apparently, and she avoids commenting on what's happened so far by staying with RVS.

Needs moar town reads. <_<

(Is CJ the only hydra in this game...?)

12. Starbuck's RAGE seems pretty disproportionate.

13. GreyICE continuing to ignore Kast's question confuses me.

14. Amrun's vote for Lobster rather than participating in all the drama looks town to me (77).

15. Nocmen reminds me that Ace's posts were off way back when.

Vote: Ace

if I don't come up with something better.

16. Stevie's post that SX links gives him weird feelings for the KAST WAGON IS OK BUT NOT GREAT I LIKE IT BUT IF IT GETS OUT OF HAND I WILL BE CROSS ALSO I WILL ASK ABOUT MAFIA TERMS parts. I noticed it too. Agree with Nocmen that I want more from Stevie first, though.

17. Agree with ZeL about Pome, assuming that her #41 is what I think it was (@ 86).

18. Antifinity's vote for CJ doesn't make sense to me. Didn't someone else get more excited about his RNG, namely? Also, with this many scummy players by page 3 or wherever, he can surely come up with something better.

Oh man. Vollkan. You ended up flipping town in Disgaea 2, right? Agree with re: Ace and maybe Stevie, though.

19. Pome is in crazy world.

FoS: Pome

GREYICE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS GOD. <_<

Ooh, missed that drew UNvoted Ace. O_o

20. I agree with GreyICE that it is POSSIBLE that Kast made up those questions to look town (@ 98). However, the questions themselves are still worth answering.

21. Nocmen's vote for GI is bad. If he's telling the truth about being masons, he is town. If he is not, he is joking, because CJ would point it out. Scum motives are not there, other than to draw unnecessary scrutiny and policy lynch points.

LOL Nocmen spells out the above just below and pretends that lynching freely confirmable liars is pro-town.

22. Celebloki is scummy.

23. CJ is...also voting GI...

-_-

24. Oh, god, this is totally ridiculous. The claim clearly occurred to him because of the silly "scrutiny" arising from being a Miller.

I am frustrated that town apparently also thought it would be fun to vote for him because GOD now this is harder to interpret...

Needs moar townreads. <_<

25. Amrun is my girlfriend in 112 re: Nocmen.

26. Kast is scummy in 113. Namely, I think his attitude toward GI in this game is dissonant with his attitude toward me in [REDACTED].

27.

FoS: Kast

28. Nocmen's suddenly switch to Kast is HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM (@ 118).

29. Stevie's 119 is LOL ("CONTINUE LYNCHING KAST PLZ I WILL WATCH").

30. Stevie's vote for GI and suspicion on Amrun is bad.

31. Pome gets townpoints for #131. I forgive her 40% of her past transgressions. This goes away if all my suspects are town.

32.

GreyICE, while I don't complain

Nevermind.

33. SX's 143 is rubbing me the wrong way. It's only a small rub, though.

34. I identify strongly with GreyICE 147.

35. Lobster identifying GreyICE @ rage with Kast @ rage makes me quiver.

[Iecerint]

36. Lobster votes Nocmen.

37. OMG CJ THINKS NOCMEN IS TOWN @ 159 WAT. PLOT MOLASSES!

38. CJ please teach me why Nocmen is town because WTF he is scum. Also do not vote Lobster for voting scum that is cruel.

39. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Amrun doesn't like Lobster for being her wagonfriend. This is not very natural IMO.

40. Ace is a philosopher stargazer (163).

ZeL: Why is Stevie posting good?
Ace: ALLOW ME TO TELL A STORY ABOUT THE SCUM: BLAHBLAHBLAH. Also, voting people is to make them move like puppets rather than to lynch scumz IMHO.

41. I could see Stevie-Amrun with Stevie bussing possibly (@ 171). His suspicion for her earlier was like 95% drawn from the aether. (Sorry @ my girlfriend; is not yr fault.)

EDIT: Except that whining about people voting with you is a real scumtell SOOO yeah.

AMRUN CHANGE YOUR WINCON BACK.

42. I guess that answers my question about the rest of the hydra...gosh...Ludi's in all the fancy hydras these days...

43. I bet I know who GreyICE is going to claim. ^^~

2ND CRUM BTW

44. I am happy that my predecessor finally posted and didn't say anything stupid. <3 THANK YOU

ALT

PERSON FROM 2008.

45. OK I confess to basically not reading Nocmen's 177. Please make posts that are not so impossible to read THANKS.

I AM AWARE THAT I AM MAKING THIS MONSTROSITY.

46. OK, so I read said post and it is basically questions that I doubt he will follow up on and characterizations like "flailin." I mean it's directed at Stevie and still doesn't do much for me.

NOCMEN IF YOU ARE TOWN AND STEVIE IS SCUM WITH AMRUN PLEASE BECOME MORE TOWN.

47. Kast discredits Ace for "forcing Kast out of his comfort zone" without any reasoning. This rubs me the wrong way because I could totally see this as scumKast-in-comfort-zone.

I am interpreting TOO MUCH scum->scum violence this game. Somethin's gotta give.

48. SX is LERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRKAN and I think he was doing it actively but I am not very good at maths (@ 181).

49. Lobster made me lolirl @ 184.

50. Stevie is lord of scum in 186. The LINGERING fake focus on Amrun, etc. just seems totally insincere. I'd vote for him if I didn't sneak a peak and see that he's at like L-2 already or something.

51. Is Lobster's "just like physics" simile is an intentional allusion to Ace's silly post from earlier? I will assume it is and giggle again (@ 188).

Also, is that a Zhen Ji avatar?

52. Pome says that her scummy post was meant to be scummy...? I guess (190)? Am misremembering?

53. Ah, nevermind. Vollkan clarifies the above in 192. It's about Amrun's attitude toward that post.

54. Starbuck totally ignores what's going on and votes Stevie (195). Scummy? Time will tell!

55. Something happened to SX in 202! PLOT THICKNESS.

56. SX's 219 seems...I mean, it wouldn't make sense for scum to just be able to redirect whole lynches...unless he's thinking it's linked SPECIFICALLY to Stevie.

57. OK, Amrun's townread on Stevie is now weirder than weird @223. Stronger than I would've expected.

58.

I can't help but feel Amrun is being legit. I'll still be suspicious if Stevie flips town though.

This makes no sense in two halves.

59. Amrun's #227 is the opposite of sensible. Again, it's HOW DARE SOMEONE WAGON WITH ME.

60. I've gotta at least admire Ace for sticking to his guns in 231 re: VOTES ARE TOOLS.

61. Actually agree with Pome's 240.

62. Lobster being suspicious of Amrun makes sense to me given circumstances, BUT I am surprised at the specific reasons.

63. I echo Lobster's 255.

64. Oh man. Kast's 266 is so pretty and nicely-organized that it almost makes all my bad feelings go away.

65. OMG TAJO <3 BE MINE <3 I NEED A NEW LOVER S/P AMRUN PERHAPS BEING SCUM.

66. I agree with tajo's first few pages 100%. Not sure why he votes a non-player like drew when there are so many high-profile weirdos amuck. Whatever.

I think those reads still make sense on page 5, so that part's OK, too.

67. Kast's post "alleviating doubts" for Amrun (274) can only be viewed with suspicion when she is basically his own town read (i.e. one of few).

68. Nocmen does not understand why Kast is scummy (275). Jury is out on what this means.

On reflection, I notice that Kast doesn't actually have GreyICE down as scummy in his summary post. So that's a point in his favor re: the thing I thought I noticed earlier.

69. SX describes an angel attack in 283, probably based on that halo-y one that attacks Asuka near the end of the series. At least one faction is probably the Angels. I would not be surprised if SEELE were another faction. I'm really interested to see how Kaworu is used. /spec that I can't hold back any longer.

It's a little weird that the effects of the "intrusion" are unknown...

70.

At risk of answering for another player, there are two kinds of players that tend to play below capacity. One of those categories is Mafia. Given something I spotted earlier in the thread, however, I'm pretty sure that Nocmen instead fits firmly into the second category, especially since that second possibility is also a very good explanation for another thing that Nocmen has done this game (and a bit of mod meta negates the most obvious objection to that possible explanation) - and that second category is very, very firmly town.

This made me lol. Also: I'll take your word for it for now....

New development is mainly that Amrun is scummy.

[Iecerint]

TOWN
GreyICE -- Obv
CandleJack -- I trust him.
tajo -- I need commentary on the remainder of the game, though.
Iecerint
SpyreX -- I ALMOST wanna put him in Neutral for lerkan, though. <_< WHEN I AM REDUCED TO THIS, GOD.
vollkan -- Vollkan is actually a voice of justice this game. I do not really have negative feelings in spite of negative expectations. Bodes well!
Pomegranate -- I see big tells both ways, but the town ones are winning out atm. This one can be analyzed in light of flips later on.

NEUTRAL
Antifinity -- I actually think he's pretty scummy, but I feel like I have too many scumreads. At least, I never have any idea where he's coming from. Maybe scum if the game is on its head.
Starbuck -- Main game-related activity I can recall is supporting the Stevie wagon with blinders on. Likelier scum if Stevie is town.
Ace -- There's a detachment to his posts that are easy to play off of a scum role PM. I dunno whether this is par for the course, though; no playing-with since Kingdom Hearts ages ago.
drew -- Blah. Blah. I can't even remember anything he did, except once when he unvoted Ace for reasons that still make no sense to me.
ZeL -- His posts are actually pretty sensible, but nothing to put him above
GhostWriterMotorcycleHero -- Par for the course.
LobsterCatapult -- Not scum with Amrun. But kinda scummy? But not really? Neutral.

WHO?
Kawaii
Surye
Celebloki -- I remember this player having like 2 posts, and they were both scummy. But there were 2.
malthusis -- I remember having opinions about one of this player's posts, but I forgot them, so they must've been pretty weak opinions. All I know about him is replacing him in Kingdom Hearts years ago...

SCUM
Amrun -- Gets scumreads on people who wagon with her, unexplained Stevie townread, bizarre Stevie attack on her. Also, I really like Amrun, so I think me having scum feelings on her doesn't bode well.
Nocmen -- BUT I get weird relational towntells. BUT he makes crappy cases (re: Kast). And scummy ones (re: GreyICE)

Ace -- I guess. Maybe he's Neutral? I am putting him there.

Stevie -- He lives in a fantasy world. But is that where scum live? I guess mainly if Amrun lives there? The recent disappearance doesn't do much for me.
Kast -- It's no stretch at all to me for this to be the scum variant of the standard strategy I see Kast employ. In particular, I think his attitude toward GreyICE doing shenanigans is dissonant with how he tends to behave when I do the same.

[Iecerint]

I would've been ADDING my vote to Ace around that time, so the unvote seemed very weird. I don't know what the point of RVS is (well, there's still SOME point, but) if you remove said votes as a matter of principle.

My finished-game experience with Kast is just the original Brave and the Beautiful. He was very into set-up/mechanic analysis, very into kind of addressing all points of view and consolidating them, but also a little bit detached from the X v. Y elements of the game. This game, he's still doing that, but enough of his analysis seems motivated to support theses that I don't think are very plausible that I am suspicious. I think I highlight a couple of examples through my readthrough, one fairly early on. The big one for me is his attitude toward GreyICE this game. I'm SLIGHTLY appeased by his eventual agnosticism with regard to his alignment, but only just.

[Iecerint]

@ GW -- That's correct. When I've done analogous rabble-rousing in the past, his attitude is like "We can use whether people leap to lynch this as a scumtell." When GreyICE did similar things this game, his reaction was "Do not do that; if you do dumb things, you may get lynched, which is anti-town if you are town."

The fact that there is apparently a meta reason for bad feelings here moderates my feelings a little.

@ SX -- WELL, good point. But I mean very niche + that didn't stop lynches per se IIRC.

@ Amrun -- Lobster is along the same level as drew to me -- meaning, not much going on one way or the other. The thing that I can remember is that she followed you on a wagon and that made you uncomfortable, but that made me suspicious of you more than her. I think there was something else weird, too (i.e. something actually Lobster-linked), but I can't remember it atm. Must not've been very memorable.

@ Nocmen -- Are you asking about my old game with Kast? Superficially, his play was very similar to what's going on here. The difference is that it seemed like his analysis was kind of biased in this game; like, he'd present information that I'd also just read, but then come to conclusions that didn't necessarily seem particularly obvious to me. The example in this game that originally made me O_o was his early game questions @ GreyICE, which, while reasonable questions, seemed to be presented in lieu of other game participation, if that makes any sense. The discrepancy described above also fits this pattern (like, you could see someone with Kast's playstyle as either a policeman or a scumhunter, and he's leaning toward the former here more than I'm used to).

[Iecerint]

After that, I really have no definites. I need to give the game another re-read.

Vote: Stevie

lol

[Iecerint]

I have a slight town read on Iece now, but I will wait for further posting. I liked his catchup though.

The Towniest of the Town
-----------------------------
Tajo

?

[Iecerint]

My slot has been catch-up post + some more stuff

Tajo's slot hasn't even caught up yet IIRC.

Yet he's in your top 5 but you want to "wait for further posting" for me.

I do not understand.

[Iecerint]

OH, I thought that was the hammer. Nevermind.

*L-1*

[Iecerint]

Tajo's impressions on page 11 are basically the exact same as mine had been. I do not follow.

You are going to need to specify what makes you have doubting-feelings.

[Iecerint]

And yeah, Rei's one of the 3 main characters, and an extremely popular one.

It's conceivable, if a longshot, that she could be scum, since she's a vessel for an Angel. She could also be a fakeclaim for someone like Kaworu, since they're both vessels for Angels, but he's a 3rd party one and she's pretty much town, albeit with blue and orange morality.

[Iecerint]

I do if it looks like you're making shit up.

[Iecerint]

Reasons for Rei to be a safeclaim:
- "Scummiest" of the main characters.

Reasons for Rei to not be a safeclaim:
- Most popular of the main characters.

P-edit -- That is not really what it says. It says that the flavor will be drawn from all of the various Evangelion universes and then makes that claim on that basis:

E2) Flavor text in Role PMs and/or modscenes is purely for flavor purposes and does not necessarily contain any information about the setup unless it is explicitly stated that it pertains to the game. Any characters that appear in flavor text are not necessarily in the game or still alive at the time of the mod scene.
E3) Source material for this game comes from both the original Neon Genesis Evangelion anime series and movies, as well as the Rebuild of Evangelion movies. Flavor in this game may be taken from either source in cases where there is a conflict between the two, so no game-related information can be gained by analyzing the flavor in this manner.

[Iecerint]

Quoting from my post earlier today

@ Amrun -- Lobster is along the same level as drew to me -- meaning, not much going on one way or the other. The thing that I can remember is that she followed you on a wagon and that made you uncomfortable, but that made me suspicious of you more than her. I think there was something else weird, too (i.e. something actually Lobster-linked), but I can't remember it atm. Must not've been very memorable.

Amrun has since explained that the reason she thought Lobster was scummy for supporting her wagon was that the basis for her sheep was not good:

Iece - I was voting the wagon, but Lobster sheeped onto it by quoting a "slip" that GreyICE pointed out. Hint, it was not a slip. That's a pretty reliable scumtell, in my book - more reliable than sliphunting itself.

[Iecerint]

Posting from China. I have the internet. Kind of.

Grey, remember what I found between Vi and Seraphim in Bebop?

Drew and Ace.

What's the context? Is this proposing scum connections? I actually see an Ace-Kast scumfriend connection more clearly if that's a scumfriend posit.

VOTE: Ace

LC lynch might be OK, but I'm iffy enough on Amrun that it's not my favorite thing. I think Ace and Kast fake-distanced early on and both are scum. Ace's "this wagon is good but not as good as Kast" re: LC really did it for me.

P-Edit -- I don't have a "confused" read on you, LLD. Rather, I think it is crazy that someone would have a top-tier town read on someone who had only read through page 5 while having a "neutral but I want more content" read on someone who'd given more content. Either you are a 110% gut player, or there is a clear logical disconnect.

[Iecerint]

Surye having GreyICE as the top scumread is too far into crazyworld to be an unequivocal scumtell IMO.

[Iecerint]

Secondly, your "confused" read on me is bullshit. The same with Iece. You're discrediting there because I have caught on to some of your scumbuddies.

This is what I was P-editing. I thought you were analogizing our reads on you. I guess you're really analogizing his reads on us.

[Iecerint]

OK, I looked at his longpost again. The only reasons scum would come up with that kind of post IMO are:

1. Self-conscious attempt to obtain VI status.

2.

Extremely weak play resulting in coming up with "bad claim"-based vote for GI

But GI is a bad target choice, anyway, unless he also just didn't want to read.

I think 2 is unlikely, and we can probably meta to determine whether 1 is plausible.

I doubt Surye is for lynching today.

[Iecerint]

There is no inconsistancy in the bold. I said those were in iso format. I thought a vote for you was meh based on the context and time of his vote, and now I like my vote. Tell me how you didnt understand that.

So you think I'm scum based off everything I've done, including pages 1-5, but you think Pom's vote for me on page 4 sucks and is a scum tell and you see no inconstancy...

You ain't town.

THOUGH actually this does start to press on SoD a little bit. O_o

The main basis for Surye's GI vote was on the claim (at least, that's what the votepost itself says IIRC)...and that happened on page 1...

Sooooooo...

[Iecerint]

VOTE: GreyICE I'd like to see this be the new wagon, I think it's much better than LC. LC's fluff-as-content is annoying, perhaps scummy, but not damning enough for me. But GI's claim is damaging to town, barely provable without his own death, arrogant superreads based on nothing, and everything in my read, this is where my vote is happy.

This reads like the claim is the important part (since the other stuff is tacked on at the end) BUT whatever.

It also reads like you mainly do not like GreyICE as a person. I am not convinced that that is a very reliable way to find scum.

[Iecerint]

I've silently changed my mind about Nocmen over the past several pages. I think he's town.

[Iecerint]

Can't really remember why tbh, but I remember feeling pretty good about it.

[Iecerint]

I could switch to Kast at deadline. I think he and Ace are both scum.

[Iecerint]

Contrary to your claims, I don't think Kast ever tried to discredit me. Could be because he knows I get really grouchy if people attack me D1 on a weak basis.

I'm OK with Kast going first.

Unvote; Vote: Kast

[Iecerint]

This wagon, while I agree with it, exploded too damn fast. I need to look at these last few wagons, see if theres any patterns with people jumping on at the end

[Iecerint]

I want Kast dead. Whyever would I sanction people unvoting because they think he's dying TOO QUICKLY? There's no mass claim situation, no need to coordinate night actions, no reason to hold up a wagon on scum to see if someone has a cool new saying.

Because town might accumulate late D1 votes more quickly than scum.

[Iecerint]

I'm just answering his question, because the answer is pretty obvious IMO.

I'm still voting Kast.

[Iecerint]

It looks like Kast's V/LA ends tomorrow.

[Iecerint]

I keep forgetting that it's still Tuesday morning where Kast is.

[Iecerint]

Iecerint- Don't really understand Iec's move. This is one of the key votes.

I do not understand what you don't understand. You don't understand why I'd be OK to vote you over Ace when I think you're both scum?

Unvote; Vote: malthusis

I don't have a strong read on mal one way or the other tbh BUT cross-supply GW. Maybe leaning scum a little.

[Iecerint]

Actually, yeah. Malth should have posted up a pre-claim view on Kast. Now it's completely useless. And, clearly, no one things Ace is scummy enough to hang today.

Referring to this.

[Iecerint]

Set 1

Basically, I disagreed with you so much that I started to assume this was the scum version of your playstyle (i.e. similar to your town one, but in service of a predetermined, scummy version of the game rather than being based on an objective view of the game. I don't think I ever accused you of active lurking. This also speaks to your penultimate question.

I actually think you did attack GI -- your tone and so on was constructed that way -- even if you didn't end up putting him on your scumlist. It's still better that you didn't put him there than otherwise, though.

I thought you and Ace have both had weird love-hate low-on-action-high-on-words swipes at one another, which looked fake to me. This also speaks to your last question.

I don't remember the Amrun/Kast catch-up you're alluding to, but I'm going to assume that Amrun's behavior is relevant because I think she's scum, and if my scumreads are doing things that scumreads shouldn't do together, I may need to reevaluate, etc.

Set 2

I don't think GI's case was crap. I think GI is town. I am OK with supporting town crusades on scum reads, especially if my preferences are relatively niche.

[Iecerint]

Well, he did claim one-shot. He put himself on a tight leash.

[Iecerint]

Yeah. I don't really remember her ever calling an air strike either. In Episode 1 the Japanese government attempts that, it fails, and then they turn responsibility over to NERV.

[Iecerint]

Do the flavor names seem sort of out of place ala "airstrike" ?

[Iecerint]

Ah, nevermind. Forgot something.

[Iecerint]

OMG ACCIDENT CRUMBS I THINK

[Iecerint]

The "Magi Complete System Check" followed by the "The game state may have changed, although you're not certain how" thing makes me suspect the Magi masons may no longer all be town.

The flavor reminds me of the computer-virus angel. In the flavor, Ritsuko has to use the Magi to remove the infection.

The other possibility is that either Rei or Kaworu was identified, but I think this is relatively less likely.

[Iecerint]

Did CJ ever claim which Magi he was?

[Iecerint]

[quote="I had demons yesterday via PM."[/quote]
?

[Iecerint]

Depends on whether CJ has private talk.

[Iecerint]

Well, if we're positing that CJ was recruited, I think there are definitely precedents where cult doesn't learn if their targets were successful, which would necessarily preclude private talk...

CJ's confirmation of the ability working in-thread actually fits with this version, given that he is scum and not mundanely empowered.

Unless you've noticed some reason why this possibility can't be in play?

[Iecerint]

SX, you never responded to my admittedly-vague inquiry about your "demons" PM.

[Iecerint]

No, this is what I'm saying:

1. If CJ is scum, he was almost certainly recruited last night.
2. When players are recruited, they sometimes are not able to communicate privately with the broader scumteam.
3. CJ confirming what happened in-thread fits with not being able to privately confirm that he was recruited successfully. (NB: It also fits with being town who was mundanely empowered.)

The relevance of this entire line of thought is whether the scum know who all the other mason Magi are given that CJ was recruited. If CJ can talk privately to the scum, he can tell the scum who the other Magi are. If not, he cannot, except via crumbs, etc.

[Iecerint]

I don't really know the cult meta on this site, so it's hard to say.

I've been in 2 games that had a cult -- a UPick run by Empking, where I was personally recruited and able to talk; and Of Gods and Men, where recruited players did not know who recruited them and could not communicate with the recruiter. So that would put it at 50%, but I don't claim to know much about the more general case.

I suspect that it's more likely to be play here because being able to tell about the other Mason partners would make the set-up very swingy in a very avoidable way (i.e. assuming that only the Magi are infectable).

[Iecerint]

The problem with that version of reality is that it proposes that Stevie and CJ and Kast (and soon SX) are all scum AFAICT.

[Iecerint]

You're al fucking idiots.

Who did CJ express a worry about yesterday? SpyreX.

Who is he likely to investigate? SpyreX.

If scum has some kind of framer ability, who would they frame?

SpyreX.

Where the hell did that come from?

[Iecerint]

And CJ wasn't investigative until today, nor did he gambit as much AFAICR, so positing that scum uses CJ's feelings as a basis for hypothetical framer ability usage is crazy.

[Iecerint]

I doubt Kast==Ritsuko is the scum inventor. If Kast is scum, Ritsuko is a fakeclaim. I do not know of any Angels for whom inventor is a plausible role, and Keel was probably the SEELE representative.

[Iecerint]

I'm waiting for SX to answer my question.

[Iecerint]

Looks like L-2.

I thought vollkan was town D1 but w/e.

Edit: I was thinking that SX might be a delayed recruit, but the fact that the Magi are now Neighbors rather than Masons implies that the takeover flavor applied to them, I think.

Then again, I think one of CJ and Stevie (I think Stevie) implied that SX was being slow-recruited where the other (I think CJ) insisted that it had already happened.

[Iecerint]

It's actually rational for CJ to want to lynch the other mason-turned-neighbor AFAICT. It's at least as confirmed to a hypothetical CJtown as a Pome crumb.

Not that I think CJ is the town one left, but.

[Iecerint]

Angels + Cult + Serial Killer + Town

OR

CJ is scum and Nocmen isn't.

HMMM.

Isn't Gehirn basically just the earlier version of Nerv, anyway? It doesn't make flavorsense that they'd be opposed.

I've never seen the Rebuild movies, though.

[Iecerint]

Kaworu apparently gets more screentime, though.

I actually have the first Rebuild movie downloaded. Maybe I'll watch it tonight.

[Iecerint]

I am livid.

[Iecerint]

I'll save the self-vote for later,

might as well try to get the recruited traitor lynched first

since our recruit last night failed.

?

[Iecerint]

I'll save the self-vote for later,

might as well try to get the recruited traitor lynched first

since our recruit last night failed.

?

We're recruited Cult (GEHIRN), Nocmen is Mafia (Angel).

I understand that, but I still don't understand what you're going on about. How is Nocmen (the "first" one you want to get lynched) a recruited traitor? O.o

You implied that you attempted to cult Kawaii last night and inferred that your recruit attempt killed him.

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Also, I think you said yesterday that Eva-01 knew not to claim IIRC. The current flip doesn't make sense with that.

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Oh...I guess it was someone else...can't find it anymore...

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Where in that entire process did you get information that SpyreX was scum?

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So the SpyreX stuff was 100% made up?

Then why aren't you more suspicious of Stevie, who claimed the same thing?

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Who claimed it first, anyway -- you or Stevie?

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Your faction needs town a allies right now, so WIFOM shit was a bad play. Especially since we don't need you

Well, hypothetically, provided that Nocmen indeed flips Angel, we could use them as a Cop. Though they've done some bad faith stuff already.

Don't really understand what WIFOM event you're alluding to...

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Iec, you're asking him questions about things that don't add up for you, meaning that he's causing you to question things round and round, yet don't know what WIFOM that I'm talking about?

That's not WIFOM; that's lying. Also, this is what you said:

Dropped a nuke on someone you want dead, yet continue to vote him? WIFOM trolololo bu;llshit.

It sounds like you are claiming that voting and then nuking without unvoting was WIFOM. Which also makes no sense.

I think cult, provided that it is actually the cult, and given that it can only recruit from the town, is basically a modified town faction. Or that's how I would've implemented it. The claimed relation to SX, whether it's true or not, indicates it's not true this time.

I think CJ's relation to Stevie's claim re: SX is relevant for obvious reasons.

I'd actually totally forgotten about that page 1 cultspec, AND that Amrun was in this game.

GreyICE's spec looks good. I could see Stevie's "give me one day" thing as a cult claim in retrospect, especially since his actual ability doesn't justify it.

THOUGH that would mean that Rei, Asuka, and Misato were ALL fakeclaims, which. O_o

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THOUGH

Rei makes lots of sense as a fakeclaim for Yui, if we even accept that Yui needs a fakeclaim.

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Though the other fakeclaims don't really jive with the role the player had, so meh.

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Yo CJ, how long til Nocmen flips?

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Just remembered that I think SX claimed to get scary dreams afterwards (probably from vollkan, who is the mindraping Angel IIRC), I think. So there's that (i.e. someone getting info per se isn't absurd).

Then again, the Angels would all know about having targeted SX, so it doesn't prove anything.

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I just bought the Rebuild BluRays. ^^~

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I just saw Rebuild 2.22. A++. Worth a torrent.

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If you were hypothetically Yui, you would show up non-Angel, too.

Kaworu-as-Adam and Rei-as-Lilith might be immune, too.

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The only reason I'm iffy at all about Stevie scum is that Rei AND Asuka AND Misato all being scum sounds a little intense.

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Because the fact that they shifted from Mason to Neighbor already soft-confirms the cult, I think is his point.

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Fair enough.

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This game is fucking confusing.

What in particular?

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He softclaimed that Iruel can jump to Nocmen next.

I don't particularly believe him because killing LLD didn't make much sense if Iruel could hop in upon death.

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He should be able to paraphrase it.

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It would appear to mean:

1. Ace is town.
2. Scum knows no one got it N2, Ace is scum.
3. Whoever got it N2 is dead, Ace is scum.

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D2, whatever*

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While he's probably not scum, the messages he's receiving most certainly have something to do with scum. The fact that they all start the same way is most likely due to mod flavoring of the way you receive the messages, and doesn't stop it from being from scum. So, in essence, I couldn't give a shit what the hell it says, and you can stop telling them.

Huh?

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Oh, I thought you were talking about Ace's claimed message receipt.

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He claimed that his ability was that if he was killed, he would survive the first time. He said he was trying to draw the NK by breadcrumbing a powerful ability while being too scummy for protection.

Some players have speculated that he changes alignment after the first time he's killed, similar to how Rei 2 (the Rei at the start of Evangelion) gradually becomes more "human" as she learns about humanity from Shinji and everything, but Rei 3 is largely "reset" and remains more of a foreign, angel-y figure who ultimately causes Third Impact (albeit with Shinji).

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I suppose Celebloki's cluelessness can be a no-connection tell (+- WIFOM).

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Conspiracy, I guess, not WIFOM, but ye know.

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I'm not making any claims like that. I'm just saying that scum is probably making it (cuz town has not CC'd and it's angel-flavored), and it's probably real because SX claimed it.

The fact that Ace claimed it D2 (albeit not until D5) would seem to imply one of those things. Either he knows he can't be CC'd for whatever reason, or he's town.

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Or scum have *two* recruitment methods, and the SX-y flavor was a delayed recruit.

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I personally thought the Misato flavor was bogus.

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Kast, what have you claimed other than targeting CJ N1?

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@Stevie-
That is incorrect. Ace was one of CJ's D1 suspects, along with LC and Malthusis. LC has been cleared (for now that's enough for me to ignore GF potential).

CJ was probably still town D1, and definitely still town D1 from your PoV.

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@ Kast -- Stevie pointed out that CJ-scum did not suspect Ace, so Ace was scum. You said that Stevie was wrong, because CJ suspected Ace N1. My point is that this is bogus, because CJ was town N1, so any "scum ignore one another" tell clearly wouldn't apply until D2.

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D1*

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I missed that you were just being pedantic with Stevie. I thought you were correcting him because you didn't agree with his conclusion (i.e. you did not think that CJ->Ace events made Ace likelier scum).

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It's because he doesn't have computer access on weekends IIRC.

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His point is that it annoys him when an entire day goes by while he doesn't have computer access.

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Iecerint, if scum is not causing people to die at night, WHO IS?

Huh? Where does this come from?

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At an airport with 20 free minutes of internet. Will probably not be able to make any kind of serious post until tomorrow.

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Did Stevie explicitly claim to turn scum after death? I thought that was just set-up spec because of how Rei 2 is more human-y than Rei 3.

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The reason for the Judas spec is that D1 Stevie was really scummy and then avoided the lynch by asking for "one day" to do his thing; then the next day he claimed his secret plan had been to act scummy to draw the NK (lol?) because he was one-shot BP. The Rei nameclaim had already come out D1, so the flavor ramifications of the one-shot BP lead to the Rei 2 -> Rei 3 spec.

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I don't think GI was trying to pull a fast one on the entire playerlist, though whether his intent was to see how you guys responded or something else, I'm not sure.

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GI has been one of my strongest townreads most of the game. I do not think he is scum.

Also, that is only the first time.

Also, that post is as much about pointing out that your claim that GI is "misrep"ing you intentionally is bogus as anything else.

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It's the "as X as anything else [about the post]" construction. It reads funny because X has an IP.

I would be OK seeing Antifinity or Ace go. BUT this game has been on speedrails since sometime D2, so I've not properly read and analyzed and am content to sheep as long as the outcomes continue being good.

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I listed Ace...are you confusing me with GW?

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TE, the scum motivations for that being a"misrep" simply aren't there. The probability that no one would notice that and would follow it to your lynch is like 0%. I'm barely even playing the game, and even *I* noticed it.

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GI should probably clarify his intent. This is becoming a distraction.

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TE, there are MUCH better ways for scum to lynch your slot than to tell blatant lies like that. The more credible argument would be that GI did such a thing for WIFOM associated with making a fail argument early in the day whose main effect would be to generate scrutiny, and that's on the unlikely side of things.

There are simpler explanations IMO, but I want to see what he says.

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I do not remember it. I actually hadn't even noticed that Amrun was lynched when I made that one post right before the flip IIRC.

I will look now.

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Coming as it does after two Amrun votes, it's difficult to interpret. I don't put much stock into it either way.

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TE, could you claim all the flavor information the Mod gave you upon replacing in?

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My simpler interpretation was that GI wanted to see what kind of response BL and/or TE would make to the claim. I didn't recognize it until moments after my derp-y (from my POV) "umm wat" post after that, though.

Maybe I was thinking too hard?

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if the 'judas ability' triggered, it was said that the mod would confirm that he died first.

?

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On burnish'd hooves his warhorse trode. ~

Lalala

Earlier I almost voted Anti but I wanna see what was up with his "mod confirm" comment.

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lol

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Flavor spec I recognized in the shower:

1. Iruel is confirmed to be in the game (via CJ's flip). This is an Angel that infests computers.
2. Bardiel is implied to be in the game (via TE's claim). This is an Angel that infests evangelions (i.e. it does it to EVA-03 in both the original series and the new movies). We know at least 1 evangelion is in this game.
3. Rei/Lilith has traitor potential via Rei 2/Rei 3.
4. Kaworu/Tabris/Adam, if he's here (and, I mean, come on), has even more significant traitor potential (and I doubt he's a normal Angel with the above + other flipped guys...) if we're going off of flavor
(5. LOL @ Asuka AND Misato being fakeclaims and Rei and Kaworu being the sketchy ones...)
This is a lot of alignment-flipping...

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Anti ~~

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I think the only player I could be persuaded to lynch other than Anti is Ace.

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I forgot that I held off on voting Anti earlier. I'd hammer, too.

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From a flavor-perspective, Mari does not make sense as a town role. Mari does not work for NERV; she works for an unknown EVA organization that is probably based in Europe and associated with the Vatican, though we don't know the details yet.

Whether Kdub cares about these issues is a separate question. For example, it's true that she exhibits some pro-NERV behavior, and that might have confused Kdub.

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Oh, wait. Maybe I had the wrong idea. This is the place where EVA-05 is introduced and Mari is initially seen. I don't remember the movie claiming that this is a NERV-operated facility -- it makes no sense to me at all, frankly, since Mari later enters Japan "COVERTLY" on the orders of her English-speaking superiors -- but this wiki page claims as much.

Whatever.

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I've only played with scum-Anti and I've only played with scum-Ace AFAICR. Both were in Kingdom Hearts ages ago. Both felt kinda like this.

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Correction: I also played with anti-scum in SEI. That was also like this.

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Nah, I'm saying the opposite of that.

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(Minus the c-word.)

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Well, yeah. That's what I say in the very bit you just quoted. The movie doesn't make it clear AFAICR, but the wiki page says it's NERV-based.

It's weird for Asuka and Mari and Misato to all be fakeclaims IMPO. That's the main reason I'm iffy on you.

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I'm obvtown? O.o

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Sooooo I personally have no idea why I am obvtown. I would probably put myself on a scumlist that has BL on it were I to replace in right now.

Can you teach me why I am obvtown, or do you just feel it in your heart?

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Vote: Ace

Money @ mouth.

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yeee

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THIS TIME I WILL BRING YOU HAPPINESS.

mmmmmmmmmm

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TIME FOR ZEL TO CLAIIM LALALA.

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Hikari Horaki, VT. I'm the class rep girl.

I accidentally breadcrumbed in this post:

Ah, nevermind. Forgot something.

OMG ACCIDENT CRUMBS I THINK

My recollection (though I may have the scene wrong in my head, hence "I think") is that when Toji is killed by Shinji, it cuts to Hiraki thinking about what she's forgetting when she's making an obento for Toji. She may be thinking of something else, though -- I might be confusing it with when Utena is forgetting something or other while she's post-coitus with Akio in a different series. But that's what this was about.

I think it's just Celebloki and GW that are left. I vaguely remember someone clearing Celebloki at some point. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Go, GW.

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Oh, I should paraphrase flavor, too.

Though I seem humorless to people who don't know me, I am a sweetheart inside my heart. It's just one sentence.

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Ice, really bro? Thats like saying "the" then saying its crumbs to a certain scene. Just saying now I dont like it.

Nah, it's much more specific than that.

Also, I didn't crumb deliberately; I just noticed the comparison between Hiraki's line and mine after the fact, so I went back and declared it a crumb.

The fact that I did as much made it an obvious thing to clarify come claimtime. It doesn't tell you much, other than that Hiraki is either my role or fakeclaim, which you pretty much know anyway.

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It's episode 18 of the original series. Context is that Toji lets Hiraki make an obento (like, a meal) for him, and she's happy because she has a crush. After Toji is (presumably) killed, the scene abruptly cuts to Hiraki preparing the food, but she's (IIRC) concerned she's forgotten something.

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Like I said, I'm not 100% sure of the detail that she thought she'd forgotten something; I may be mixing it with the Utena scene. But that's what I thought I was recalling when I posted that.

The rest of it DEFINITELY exists there, though. It's a really sad moment. At worst, it may cut away at a different point or something.

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GW left the site?

Bummer.

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Whenever GW posts I start singin

GHOSTWRITER MOTORCYCLE HEEEERO

OK so is there anyone left? TE apparently has moar to claim, and GI/Nocmen maybe haven't fullclaimed?

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GW GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND PICK 1.

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FAKECLAIMS SO FAR

Misato: SK
Asuka: Rolecop
XXX: Infected
That computer guy at Nerv: Roleblocker

Did Ace ever claim? I don't think he did.

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I was on the verge of switching over from Anti. I didn't think Mari would be a fakeclaim TOO, and I thought Ace was a weirdo for calling me obvtown, then modulating to mostly obvtown when I got suspicious. But then they killed him.

I sorry boss.

GW, he wants you to claim your targets.

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And the relevance is that I think it's likely that there's a scum Eva, since we've had like 5 EVA roles claimed in the game so far. But Ace may've been EVA-04 or MARK 6.

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I thought GreyICE claimed to be a Magi earlier? Did I make that up?

I guess Nocmen can clear it up. He and TE still need to fullclaim.

On Toji

All the children at the NERV school (except Rei) -- Shinji, Asuka, Hikari, Toji, Kensuke, etc. -- are potential EVA pilots whose mothers have had their souls harvested (slight fanon there -- the alternative is that they're all dead and NERV can recover the souls from the bodies or something). EVAs can only be piloted by the children of the mother's soul that is placed inside of it. In Rei's case, the soul of an earlier version of herself is used in place of a mother, because Rei has no mother.

Toji is selected as the pilot of EVA-03 when that unit is brought to Japan from America. Unfortunately, a parasitic Eva named Bardiel (which Amrun's (?) message to Stevie implied is in the game IIRC, so unreliable) had already taken control of EVA-03, so Shinji had to fight him and nearly killed him. Toji himself never had mental contamination in flavor to my knowledge, though.

On Hikari

I think it would be weird for both Asuka and Hikari to be fakeclaims. That's the most I can say about the reliability of "Hikari is more minor ergo scum." Also, the other "minor" role that's here was claimed by Amrun, so the "minor scum" quota could be said to be met.

On Fakeclaims

Purely on the basis of roles, the most likely possibility is that one of the two EVAs is scum. That isn't the only basis we should take into account, though, because Ace may have been an Eva, too.

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Oh, missed that TE had already claimed...and the same as what was said before...

Then it's just Nocmen.

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Ah, I forgot about LLD being a Magi. I guess it was a gambit or something.

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The fact Iruel (the corruptor) flipped when CJ died makes me believe that Nocmen is CONFIRMED TOWN.

I agree with what you say about this, but it makes me a little confused about who Iruel was on D1...I guess it could be that one of the scum has an ability that turns a player INTO Iruel, but it's a bit funky...

Zelink as scum doesn't violate SoD for me at all.

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I'm happy people thought I was relatively obvtown. I really didn't pay much attention all game.

I'm pretty happy with my play to the extent that I participated, though. My only BIG no-reservations /fail was with vollkan. I wonder how the game would've turned out if he hadn't been caught...

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And Kast.

Sorry, Kast.

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I hope Leliel makes it into 3.0. It's my favorite Angel.

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The new Eva movies. 1.0 and 2.0 have been released already. 3.0 is coming next year or so.

It's .0 because they add fancy stuff and new animations for the bluray rereleases.

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Iec-
Dunno wtf you were going on about during this game. You called me scum, then said I relieved all your concerns, then called me town, then apparently forgot that and called me scum again. I can only assume you were influenced by our concurrent game at the time.

Yeah. That probably had something to do with it.

I knew you were scum in one of them. <_<

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He's not always like that. Kast is a sweetie.

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PEACE and HAPPINESS~~! <3

<You can have this.>