Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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21 hours, 2 wagons at near equal length, lets take a quick look....
Hm, Tammy changed her vote in to a futile wagon of 1 which gave Zdnenek full control of the lead again since she was voting Foxface. So I'm going to guess either she's emotionally tunneling or pretending to emotionally tunnel, since no one who writes a wall like 1205 is a VI.
Well then, off to Tammy's ISO to see what kind of precedent there is for this.. Oh look... the site isn't loading anything past post 50 in her ISO, that's fantastic. I guess I'm going to have to just read back and see that way... well I guess Tammy's past is tunneling on Zdnenek and bursting on Zar for suspecting her for faulty reasons.
Okay, so lets see if I want foxface or Zdnenek lynched before I decide on whether to try to get Tammy to change her vote back or not.
Foxface...
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3923081
after saying doesn't throw votes around willy nilly?
trying to please early on not good
wow those reads.. and really bad play overall
self voting
is very ready to kneel over and die and doesn't seem to want to do any work for this game.
Foxface seems like the lynch to me, what's the debate about?
So if someone could hook me up with a link to a Zdnenek case that'd be awesome. If it's the VT claim I am guessing he made from one of these posts I'm skimming in his ISO that has him leading for death, then let me know so I can vote foxface.
20ish hours, I'd like to do a few other things before the night comes in case mafia is comfortable with the current gamestate thus decides to kill me.
Tammy: Zar isn't dying, you're tunneling Zar and that's okay, but you need to vote Foxface because foxface is just going to become Toogeloo from Cyclic Experiment II and be a cop-out for scum all game long if he's town, and if he's scum then obviously he needs to die. He's done enough scummy things to warrant his death anyway.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Why is Zdenenk scum?
vote foxface
I don't see why this wouldn't be the lynch; Tammy better not lurk till deadline.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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If Zdenenek is scum, Tammy is more likely scum. Unfortunately we won't be lynching Zdenenek so we won't know this, but the good news is that fortunately we'll be lynching foxface who has a good chance to be scum. Also I think Tammy is town, so there's that.
Mastin: Where are those QT posts? I think that there are 6 scum by the way, 3 for each team.
CoolDoG reads as scum, seems to be trying to look busy, I can't get the feeling he really believes what he's typing.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Might as well just let the clock run, in case someone wants to post.
Shadow1psc, is there anything you want me to analyze at night in particular (some event, for instance)?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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In post 1259, Shadow1psc wrote:Was that hammer?
I have L-1.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Mastin, why haven't you posted the QT posts you talked about so long ago?
vote CooLDoG
Haven't read most of the game mainly because I forgot to, partially because [insert another excuse here]. Anyway, I'll do ISOs on people as it becomes necessary, but for now I'll scumhunt as normal.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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I think the doc should keep quiet. MoI has a reputation so it's not inconceivable to think that both scum factions killed him. Unless we have a way of determining if this is not what happened, the doctor outing themselves would be useless.-
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Mastermind of Sin, don't try to softly undermine the CoolDoG lynch please. If you have a stance to take take it, don't hide behind MoI's words.-
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vote AurorusVox
This beast needs to be put down.-
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In post 1322, AurorusVox wrote:The difference being: townies will actually see the value in the exercise.
I only answered because I thought you were drunk and didn't want you doing or saying something stupid. There's no real value in the exercise, holding someone to that type of mafia theory is ridiculous as it is pointless.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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1) Tammy is in the right, MoS is in the wrong; MoS has completely failed to convince me that tammy is scum and is IIoA just screams faking content.
2) Mastin is as useful as FourseenCircumstance
3) Pine thinks Mastins' articles are without flaws when in fact they often have quite a few flaws, and Pine thinks he knows best when really he is just going off of Mastins' flawed theory.
4) MoI is easy to catch as scum, once you know what to look for it is not difficult like you say it is. You must suck then?
5) Pine nice try at alignment fishing with your "only alignment X would care about me being bard and react this way T!"; I'm glad someone stopped that.
6) AurorousVox is still scum and Pines' investigation is mostly useless and could easily be a scum role.-
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MoS is suffering from hindsight bias. You're wasting time; I've read walls of Mastermind of Sin abusing hindsight and Tammy swiftly smacking it down.-
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It is when you are only NOW attacking people (tammy) for being on the lynch. Also were you a major pillar in campaigning for a Zedenek lynch and NOT a Foxface lynch? You're using hindsight to validate attacks on Tammy and indirectly others, when before the flip you weren't hounding people as much because you didn't have a flip to validate your suspicion.-
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In post 1411, Mastermind of Sin wrote:.I don't think Pine-scum would have gone to such lengths to make up a fake RB claim
Uh claiming RB isn't a difficult connection at all... Also in this post you go from "he wouldn't claim RB'd because a tracker could track him to MoI so he'd just claim a result on MoI" to "the scumteam wouldn't let Pine make the kill on MoI".-
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The whole idea of spelling out pet theories like that which you aren't willing to push a lynch on at the time is ridiculous, it's mudslinging at its finest. Also Pine may be scum who thought he was under more pressure than he actually was, I'll look into his ISO later.-
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Oh, that's just as erroneous. What's the difference between targeting the dead AND getting roleblocked and just getting roleblocked on someone else? Well, Pine had to have a theory to give us for why he picked his target, and MoI apparantly fit his bill in the reads department. Furthermore, Pine delaying announcing who he got the result on until a decent time into the day; that could be read as him making sure there was no watcher on MoI. Roleblock is just so he doesn't have to fake the formatting of the result.
That's a lot more likely than your "scum wouldn't RB and target dead claim LOL too obvious... haha".-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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1) You just told Tammy that just because you can't prove your claim doesn't mean that she is exempt from having to prove your claim false. The evidence you have presented is laughable, Mastermind of Sin.
2) Nice job completely missing the crux of my post and instead deciding to deflect my whole point with a clarification of one line which clearly means to represent your argument in a caricature fashion. I almost want to lynch you just on your faulty arguments alone, Mastermind of Sin.-
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Sigh, you've been out of the game for too long, Mastermind of Sin; that or you've degraded in intelligence this past year. You're using highly fallacious arguments, and now I'm going to ignore you for a while.-
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Tammy ignore MoS who doesn't understand laws of well formed arguments.
By his logic, he must prove his claim that your claim that his claim is false, is in fact false, ad infinitinum.-
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And yet you continued for two more pages.
vote Mastermind of Sin
You need to be put down.-
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In post 1450, Lord Mhork wrote:Junpei, are you voting Mastermind of Sin as a policy lynch or do you believe he is scum?
I think he's scum who's making things up on the fly, and in the process mudslinging and baselessly attacking Tammy in a logically inconsistent manner.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Uh, Ad Hominem is different than verbal attacks. Ad hominem implies the absence of other premises and conclusions; it implies the sole premise being the arguer is himself and that the conclusion is not self evident. Not only that, but the premises and conclusions of those statements are valid and not a model of ad hominem.
After the game I can give you lessons if you want MoS,; but for now back to ignoring you.-
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Wait -- Zar = House Lannister?
Also you guys replacing out is ridiculous; one of you try not to be insecure and stay, at least.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Hello Faraday, what's your read on Mastermind of Sin, and your opinions on his interaction with Tammy and myself? They're on recent pages, if you don't know.
Are you planning to read the whole thread?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Wow I hate this game. So many people, so many illogical arguments... Too bad I don't have time to deconstruct every faulty premise and presumed conclusion; and even if I did no one would listen.
I'll take requests as to what people want me to comment on because this game is turning into a marsh of egos.-
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House Lannister is HL, clearly. Tiphaine, how much are you willing to commit to those X town = Y scum syllogisms?-
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v/la 4/13-15-
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In post 1831, TiphaineDeath wrote:hey guys, norman has been threatening me, I don't like this, even though I offered him his spot back quite nicely, do you know how I may report this to the site administrator?
LOL
Okay, this game. I just recently got back from V/LA and am checking in. Not ready to dig in though at this moment, just posting to laugh and let you guys know.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Mhork that is NOT how you analyze someone's play and form a massive case. Wow that was awfully done. Sorry but... wow.-
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In post 1847, Lord Mhork wrote:>_>
It didn't start as a massive case now did it?
Also, you managed to read everything I posted in four minutes? Really?
No, one quick scan of it shows a massive quote wall with a tldr section which doesn't cover everything.
Just a heads up, I doubt you'll convince many people with a big ISO wall like that. You need to carefully construct cases with succinctness and conviction; I may as well do all the heavy lifting myself, because your case isn't doing what cases are supposed to do: summarize and isolate the problem.-
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In post 1913, Lost Butterfly wrote:skenvoy totes matched my thought process for the first 5 pages so idk
Sigh... I don't understand how you don't realize why that means absolutely nothing, especially in this game.-
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In post 1916, Lost Butterfly wrote:In post 1914, Junpei wrote:In post 1913, Lost Butterfly wrote:skenvoy totes matched my thought process for the first 5 pages so idk
Sigh... I don't understand how you don't realize why that means absolutely nothing, especially in this game.
Oh, sorry. I've never played multi scum before. Maybe you could explain the basics to me?
No matter what your specific alignment, there is a scum team who is looking for the same things you are, and especially early on when it's easiest for scum to fake thought processes in multiball.
As for my ISo being bad, I'm having trouble reading even the new posts in this game because you and others keep spamming the thread. You need to learn to post in more concise manners, Faraday, because chainposting really DOES hurt town.
Regardless of how I feel about how you're playing on a technical level I know I need to put more effort into this game but it's not a particularly easy thing to do.-
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Man, I wish this game had the playerlist of Cyclic Experiment II; I would read 80 pages of that type of conversation for anyone, but instead I don't. Either way I will scumhunt; it was easier when I had to only investigate two people though (I picked the right choice, even if it seems to have been wrong).
On this page, Shadow's appeal to probability is bad but so is Tammys' interaction on her side of things.
pedit: *moan*...-
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Too long, don't read. Used as an abstract for a long wall of text/post.
Or you could have googled it.-
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In post 2092, Tammy wrote:I'd say thanks, but the unnecessary rudeness prevents me from it.
Huh? Wasn't intending any rudeness, I suppose I will apologize since I seem to have irked you.
I understand you've probably said something about this in the game but I can't find it, so I'll ask: How much do you value logic?
In post 2023, Lost Butterfly wrote:ugh. so terrible.
I think if I was scum I'd just nightkill myself to get away from you and junpei.
This post just inspired me to try harder in this game, that and Faraday's other "ass-in-mouth" posts on this page. Sorry to say but your laughable award and experience don't outweigh my analytical and cognitive skill set, get over yourself and learn how to post better.
In post 384, Pine wrote:This is pure OMGUS masquerading as reasoning.
Pine: did you really think he was OMGUSing your RVS vote?
Pines' premmature claim is either Pine getting emotional (plausible) or Pine pretending to be emotional (plausible as well), I have issues with Zdenek and Tammys' rebuttal on why they think he claimed early, but since I have issues with both sides, I prefer to just tell my viewpoint. Needless to say it is null.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:AurorusVox (5) - Lost Butterfly, Jackal711, Feysal, BBmolla, Shadoweh
This is a terrible wagon. The only person on there I have any modicum of faith in right now is Feysal, and he admitted himself he's not paying enough attention today.
People who are unintelligent/scum-reads can't be on a wagon on scum? Rule 1: Accept your own fallibility
Rule 2: Discrediting the accuracy of the wagon by attacking the personas of the people riding it is fallacious. You can either attack the arguments against AurorusVox or accept his votes; but what you're doing is mudslinging.-
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In post 2151, Regfan wrote:but to win in this game they don't care whether the other scum team lives or dies meaning all of their kills will be aimed towards people they're relatively certain is town.
No... no. What makes you say that? I don't recall ever being told what the scums' wincon was. In fact I specifically asked the mod for the scums' wincon since I couldn't find it, and nothing he said (which was basically, "no") implied anything of that sort.
Regfan, are you slipping up already? I'd like an explanation as to how you reached i) your first conclusion regarding consolation nokills, and ii) your second conclusion regarding the scums' win con. What I'm asking for is a thought process and how it came to mind. Thank you.-
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In post 2164, Lost Butterfly wrote:He did the same as scum in Dram's bastard and we lynched him for it.
Then why would he do it again here?-
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In post 2167, Shadow1psc wrote:In post 2166, Junpei wrote:In post 2164, Lost Butterfly wrote:He did the same as scum in Dram's bastard and we lynched him for it.
Then why would he do it again here?
Humans are creatures of habit?
And sentient. Even of things they do.-
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In post 2176, Regfan wrote:This post from Seacore in the cache file:
Oh, I didn't read that.. interesting. Well in that case Pines' claim seems difficult to come from scum just based on the technicality of the role he's claiming. He's not my play for today, I'm glad the wagon fell apart.-
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In post 2206, Zdenek wrote:What were you thinking?
He claimed Choatic Good. The fact that he's uncc'd Bard means if he's scum he's Choatic Evil.
If he's scum, then he has just painted a target on his back, because the scum team could be detected. Pines' scumteam would be aiming to shoot at whoever Pine marks as "Law", and the scumteam would be marked as Law. It basically increases the odds of a crosskill, and that's scary.
Essentially, if Pine is scum, then for however long he is alive, the odds of the Lawful Evil getting crosskilled increases. If Pine is town, then well we have a similar situation, except for that the punishment will be delayed, and there are several psychological changes to the game that could happen later on when Pine reveals investigations which are variable enough. Whether scum would be worried about this is debatable, though Pine is putting on a gamble if he's scum that the scumteam is willing to take the risk that he is town and even then live with the possible consequences of that.-
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I read this as "these roles must be in the game", but I suppose we should ask.
Mod, are all of the roles in "Post 2" of this thread in this game for certain?-
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Regfan immediately investigating the workings of the setup is not suspicious.
Regfan: I would like to hear a new summarized case on Briz which takes into account his rebuttal please.-
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Not sure why Moneybags doesn't get any pressure; his ISO is just noncommittal vote after noncommittal vote. Regfan you said that the genuineness of his VT claim offset all of Moneybags' scumminess; why did it read so genuine to you?-
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BBmolla has done nothing but churn out a few terrible reads and filler like "why isn't anyone voting MoS [as I posted one reason and only one to do so]?" He's a fine person to kill.
Regfan: You have BBmolla as town, and I'd like to briefly challenge that. What about his "response" to his wagon is town? I personally found it to be very null.
Also, how can lurking and being a nonfactor be indicative of town meta and slightly, or to some degree less than 1 but greater than 0, indicative of scum meta? I don't understand what you're saying.-
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Shadowehs' ability DOES go off her own alignment, doesn't it?
It requires HER alignment be the same as her target.-
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Why would town BBmolla say this? I think that it is him cushioning his claim because he is nervous about it.
In post 2294, Lost Butterfly wrote:I'm more concerned about BB's claim tbh. I still think he's town but:
From a set-up POV if he's town we have 2 apparent roleblockers.The one who blocked Pine and BB. That's a little inelegant.
There's also him no actioning which i REALLY don't fucking get.
Also both him and Shadoweh are Lawful Good, apparently. That's 2 protective roles on that side of the town, would the other then have another 2. (I'm sort of tempted to massclaim tomorrow...but)
Issues with this post:
1) He assumes Pine is town and did not lie about being roleblocked but brings into question BB being a roleblocker based on Pine being town. I checked, and Faraday never takes a real stance on Pine; there is no precedent here.
2) His other reasons for not believing the claim are terrible: "FOUR PRs in a 26 player game!?!", "Why would BBmolla noaction other than for the reason he stated?"-
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Vote BBmollaFor now.-
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In post 2339, Lost Butterfly wrote:In post 2335, Junpei wrote:Why would town BBmolla say this? I think that it is him cushioning his claim because he is nervous about it.
Because it's a shitty claim. No actioning is actually fairly horrible if true, imo. It's the type of thing that I could conceviably see myself hammer if I had little read on BBmolla.
It reads incredibly fake to me; and a not strong town read is not reason to assume he's telling the truth when evaluating a deadline vote situation between two players.
In case this isn't obvious, you're a scumread, Faraday.-
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Faraday is scum because he knows Pine is telling the truth; or at least he is scum and Pine is not scum with him and so assumed he was telling the truth.
In post 2341, BBmolla wrote:In addition, it's at the point where it's either me and Shadoweh, and I know I'm town so...
This doesn't come from demotivated and defeatist town, by the way.-
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Ha, Faraday and his inadequate skill can't tell what is and isn't a hammer. Faraday will be lucky to live another day.
pedit: Don't scum usually get inactive around deadline to avoid situations like this? Please think more and talk less, Faraday.-
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In post 2369, Lost Butterfly wrote:In post 2367, chesskid3 wrote:why you busting mah gambit sirrah
not really sure. wanted an actual hammer asap.
Because you actually were fooled.-
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Are you asking if I think you were fooled by Chesskids' fake vote? Yes I do.-
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In post 2351, Lost Butterfly wrote:LYNCHER WIN.
This was the first post, and I think that this combined with the very fake sounding "seriously someone hammer" shows that you were just covering your ego in that later post.-
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In post 2382, Lost Butterfly wrote:> 10 minute response time. Ouch. Nice cover.
..? Sorry if I don't sit at the computer and spam f5 all the time for you Faraday; if you're curious I'm waiting a few hours before I head out, and am burning time every now and again by shooting free throws. Nice indirect response, this conversation about your wounded ego is over though.-
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BBmolla why would you ask that question?
Pine, why chesskid?-
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vote BBmolla
Faraday please post less.. 2403 is basically an "I don't know and I don't care" post; why even respond if that's the case? 2404 is nonsensical.-
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In post 2418, BBmolla wrote:Also the person I roleblocked may be able to confirm me.
...As a roleblocker. Which is a common scum role, which you want to out an information role for.-
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In post 2422, Empking wrote:In post 2421, Junpei wrote:In post 2418, BBmolla wrote:Also the person I roleblocked may be able to confirm me.
...As a roleblocker. Which is a common scum role, which you want to out an information role for.
Stupid or scummy?
Scummy because it would seem to imply that he isn't worried about if his actions are hurting town, even in the idea of hiding/protecting power roles. Seems like he was worried that we wouldn't believe his claim.-
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I think both mastin and bbmolla are scum.-
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In post 2432, Tammy wrote:In post 2430, Junpei wrote:I think both mastin and bbmolla are scum.
Why do you think this? Do you think they're on the same team?
Independently scummy; not sure about what specific team; that's not how I operate most of the time.