A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[4nxi3ty]

skimmed through parts of the game, probly not going to go through the whole thing.

I don't think Feysal scumslipped. (But with that being said, the people who pointed out his high level of theory to content have a point. His vote in#47 simply seems like a disagreement in theory to me.)

hesitant to bus a buddy? maybe

pretty sure feysal is not with the stannis faction tho:

-Me and feysal are crossvoting.

So despite redFF morphing into a hellcat and there being quite a few people agreeing in the scuminess, I've been left stranded as usual. Whatever, I don't even care anymore. Since none of you are going to listen to me I'm going to blatantly sheep the only person who matters.##Unchoose##Choose: greenknight

was any of greenknight's post scummy to you at this point?

[4nxi3ty]

Vote: Anxiety

is that a vote for me or my replacee?

thinking it might be a good idea to greyscale a claimed pr to ensure they can survive the night, use one last action, and be able to share results the next day.

I saw shinori claimed tracker, and minimum an investigative role. Can someone tell what exactly they've claimed so far and if there are any other claims?

currently leaning towards shinori being greyscaled cause I have a hard time reading him. Don't think he should reveal his night result yet; if he happens to be greyscaled he can do that tommorow.

[4nxi3ty]

yep but scum won't be able to kill whoever we lynch and they can still contribute the following day.

thoughts on feysal?

[4nxi3ty]

ensuring a pr gets one more night to get results is not a minor side effect

[4nxi3ty]

What about these three posts stood out to you in the 90 pages of the game?

thought it would be a good idea to look at who people choosed first and feysal was an early choose wagon.

I think shinori's a follower, and I don't remember minimum claiming an investigative role.

Our "investigative role" was useless and its only effect was that you'd get a different result on that player. But yes, limited cops are perfectly viable roles. (P-edit: don't believe they were randomly distributed.)

ehh I guess this was about another game.

Also, you're suggesting we lynch a pr instead of scum today so they can use their role once more? What would be the benefit to that?

its not like a majority lynch is more likely to catch scum than a pr. I think lynching a person who I am unsure about who has claimed pr is a good trade off in this mechanic if they turn out to be town, considering they would've probly died at night anyway with this being multiball.

[4nxi3ty]

ensuring a pr gets one more night to get results is not a minor side effect

Guaranteeing one extra follow result is fairly minor.

I have to disagree. Sure it is no cop but it can potentially catch scum or confirm town.

@Sapo: What are your thoughts on Feysal?

I'm ambivalent. I think his multi-scum point was not just not-scummy, but constructive/pro-town. I also think the opportunistic wagon is consistent with Feysal being town. But I'm not crazy about Feysal's reads or play. For example, I don't like his take on Starbuck, and I think SnowStorm has been leaning town if anything (and I've since seen on pp 48-50 that he's indeed town). Also, after FeysalChoose formed, Feysal's play seemed more reactionary than is typical for him.

- Iec

I don't think a scumteam would talk about another buddy like this, think I can clear feysal from both factions.

Jal, you spent some time questioning saporerint in this post yet sapo completely dropped off your radar later on, why?

[4nxi3ty]

I explained in my responses to Kortul. He didn't drop off my radar.

I would ask why he chose Sapo regardless of anything if he were a regular vig. I already answered this in my response to Edd though. I am not necessarily questioning his choice of person. I believed Sapo was scum. I'm trying to get at why he isn't choosing to hurt/lynch/really go after me while saying I'm scum.

In regards to your question concerning mafia not knowing each other in other games - I don't know. A lot of things seem to hint towards it though. Sapo at the very least had insider information on another role.

This happened after sapo's flip, I believe the post I linked was on D1 and the last post where you mentioned him before the flip. All through out D2 and even during the trial by combat you didn't talk about or interact with sapo. If you thought he was scum why did you choose to focus on others?

jal is town

explain?

Can someone give me a quick summary on why Nacho and Plum were godhanded?

vote: Jal

[4nxi3ty]

ty tammy

the answer to godhand is basicly what Lyanna said. And i think Jal was referring to post 1848, not 2144. And what is your approach to reading the game atm?

flips/major events or whatever happens to catch my attention, then I usually fill in the gaps with ISOs and further context reading if I need to. tbh I much rather get reads by playing than reading.

post 1848 does kinda answer my question. I still think Jal's lack of follow up on sapo because other people had a townread is a bit scummy, especially when it came to the trial by combat.

I agree with your logic on shinori, I don't think he is comfortable enough with his scum game to pull any claiming gambits.

[4nxi3ty]

I'm going to think about what you said about Shinori, and I'm finding myself in agreement with Zdenek.

what he said was basically what I was getting at earlier <.< I guess I didn't articulate it well enough. not really enthused about that idea anymore.

I still think Jal's lack of follow up on sapo because other people had a townread is a bit scummy, especially when it came to the trial by combat.

Explain this.

@4nxi3ty, why do you think it would be okay to kill a claimed PR over a scum read? I don't *think* it prevents the player being killed overnight by scum anyway.

never said I would be okay with killing a pr over a scumread.

ime town are more likely to continue pushing someone as scum regardless of what others say, whereas scum tend to let majority sway their actions.

If one of my scumreads ended up in a 1v1, I would've had something to say about it. Your lack of comment on sapo during the trial by combat bothers me.

Tho I am sorta doubting you are Aegon aligned based on some of your comments about bvoigt and sapo.

I think Edd is town and believes in what he is saying.

what was the main thing that changed your mind about this read?

[4nxi3ty]

4nxietys replace in 'catch-up' has been super underwhelming and consists of him making miniature little comments here and there that really don't add up to much

just cause i don't write up paragraphs or make lists of reads doesn't mean i haven't been contributing

[4nxi3ty]

not opposed to a SH lynch
never got scumvibes from Starbuck

shrugs

expected townplay more aggressive
yet my experience with limited

scratches head

waits for further content

[4nxi3ty]

jal is town

4nxiety can die the death but I love that kid so much that i can't let him die it quite yet

If one of my scumreads ended up in a 1v1, I would've had something to say about it. Your lack of comment on sapo during the trial by combat bothers me.

is a really good point

so I am not so happy lynching 4nxi3ty today

Jal

- Revised reading heavily townwards. Scum do not, as a rule, go after what is essentially a confirmed town, painting a big ol' target on their back while everyone else stands around and says, "Look at what that Jal is doing, that's so

scummy

!" Scum know Staeg's not on their team, no need to stir up trouble or attract notice, just go along with things and take care of Edd that Night. Jal does pretty much zero of these things. Newbie scum is like this but twice as much so.

hmm I thought Jal's interaction with Edd was suspect. Her comment about Edd being town doesn't fit in with how she treated him throughout the game. Despite calling him scummy multiple times only votes Edd in very first post. Once again, she avoids talking about him during the trial by combat.

what is your take on nacho's recent post?

[4nxi3ty]

I'm acutually leaning town on MoS for that VCA. When scum do vote count analysis it is usually to drive a lynch, "Oh these people are definitely scum based on this information". Compared that to MoS who votes someone no one else is voting and is like, "not sure who is scum yet I think kortul is a good place start"

@Magua:

what is your take on nacho's recent post?

Regfan, would like to see a S>W list from you.

[4nxi3ty]

@4nx,

can you tell your scum reads and strong town reads atm, along with the reasons for those reads? I remember having hard time reading you in the game we played since our styles are different, but sometimes you were readable from a logical point of view.

Feysal is a strong townread for interactions with flipped scum, same thing with Tyene.
I believe shinori is town due to his claim.
Pandora calling me scummy for wanting to "murder" shinori and then building a case on shinori bugged me a bit, However, overall I liked their tone throughout their posts.
leaning town on Zdenek. He generally seems to looking for scum rather than a mislynch.
I liked Magua's recent responses.

Originally thought Regfan was town, cause his vote looked like he was still paranoid from the last game we played where I fooled him as scum.
Recently, His continuing to call me his top scumread yet not really questioning the motive in my posts is giving me scumvibes. I suppose I could say the same thing about CES yet I get the vibe that he genuinely believes I am scum.

Confident Plums Yo Mamma is going to flip scum and is just wifoming(e.g. He put feysal on both sides of that vs. list and other stuff hes posted today)

4nxi3ty: Town-MoS is very lazy. He gets better in later days, true, but it still seems a lot of effort to present in a game this size and then... not reach a really viable conclusion. It's a behavior uncharacteristic of town-MoS, but it makes sense from scum-MoS.

I get the logic, but I am not really seeing it. Even if you are correct about it being uncharacteristic, I would still prefer to lynch jal or scumhunter.

[4nxi3ty]

Feysal is a strong townread for interactions with flipped scum

What is your opinion of:

I think the multi-scum slip is enough to go off at this stage, see how feysal continues to react.

I think he's voting Feysal and gassing up the escape pod.

scum jumping on a slip that isn't true.

The choose does not require a majority, so please don't vote me under the fallacy that doing so is better than a no-choose.

If you think me and feysal are both town just don't choose either of us.

scum don't talk about their buddies like this. This is what they do to tie themselves to somebody else.

Has nothing to do with 'paranoia of you from a previous game' in fact I don't even remember you being scum in the other game (Assume you're talking about Magician game by DDD?)

no, the much more recent newbie game that had to be rebooted because of a modslip. The game where you were IC; that had you, me, and scumhunter in it?

and if you've read through the thread you'd know as much; the scum-read on you is mostly revolved around Mockingjayes posts and the fact that she fits perfectly with post scum-teams.

I very well understand that mockingjayes' posts is why you and others have called me scum; Still doesn't explain why, up until now, there has been a lack of focus on my posts from you.

And your posts haven't shown anything other than tid-bits of conversation here and there that add up to little

don't like how you are, essentially, attacking my playstyle here and dismissing my posts as meaningless.

and the turnabout 'had town-read on him, now scum-read on him' about me is just a pre-emptivish omgus given that if scumhunter gets lynched today you know you'll be on the block tomorrow and need someone to push back at and you're Jal/Now pine push is going nowhere.

not following the logic of a Jal lynch going nowhere (which I don't get, iirc magua was the only one who had a townread) and scumhunter lynch combined with my read of you equaling a pre-emptive omgus.

[4nxi3ty]

don't really see how you can say I haven't been contributing when you kinda agree with my stance on Feysal.

well I think my point about Jal not commenting about here scumreads when they both were in a 1v1 is strong and lynchworthy, don't get why it is being ignored and I still hold out hope that people will realize this.

you've flat out avoided looking at certain people; Jal, Scumhunter/Starbuck, Mockingjaye/4nxiety and Plum to some degree other than slapping their names on your list.

MoS, *snip* The fact that you haven't stated any read on Jal/Scumhunter/Mocking and a bunch of other people including Benmage at all

what made you want to take out Plum for Benmage?

[4nxi3ty]

Feysal-stance is about the only thing I agree with of yours.

point still stands.

whether you agree or disagree with my stances has nothing to do with it.

You implied scumminess on my part for not contributing/taking stances, while in the same post, it clearly shows, you understand I have taken a stance on feysal.

Hmm, let's see. I have previously stated I thought Jal was highly likely to be Stannis faction, and that Mocking/4nxiety and Benmage were both highly likely to be Aegon faction. So either you must be REALLY bad at reading comprehension to not realize that claiming someone is probably part of a scum faction means I have a scumread on them or you're purposefully trying to do everything you can to attack me right now without actually stopping to make sure that your "case" makes any sense. ...and I really don't think you're that stupid to actually think your case makes sense.

Major FoS: Regfan

THAT'S EXACTLY IT. You've gone through your analysis and came back stating they're likely X/Y scum but you've never decided 'hmm I should re-read their actual posts and not some stupid points system to get a read on them', you're content basing all your reads of point system which makes no sense at all which is why it's a fake contribution and allows you to just vote high points back to back without justifying with any real reasoning other than 'high points!'

this doesn't address what MoS was talking about.

you said he was scummy for not stating reads on jal, mockingjaye, or benmage.
He pointed out thats was wrong and had, in fact, given reads on those three earlier in the game.
He was accusing you of being scummy for not taking the time to realize your statement was false.

Instead of addressing this accusation(explaining why you didn't take note of those earlier reads), you default to a different argument surrounding his VCA.

[4nxi3ty]

point still stands. whether you agree or disagree with my stances has nothing to do with it. You implied scumminess on my part for not contributing/taking stances, while in the same post, it clearly shows, you understand I have taken a stance on feysal.

Not even close to similar. Agreeing with a point of yours doesn't mean that the rest of your comments and contributions are 'non-scummy' or relevant, your entire spiel about the greyscalling lynch literally gives nothing towards the game and that's not even 'agree/disagree' wise, it's flat out useless posting.

that was one post, I have sixteen other posts. I have taken a stance on MoS, Jal, and several others.

and that still doens't jusity "agreeing I have a point about feysal" yet implying I "haven't contributed to the game" in the same post.

Except he didn't take a stance or have a read on Jal/MockingJaye/Benmage earlier in the game. The first time he ever really took a stance on any of the players where via his VCA which was just numbers thrown together in an illogical fashion (And he kept avoiding responding to how voting alongside the same wagon as scum isn't a scum-tell in a game like this). I kept continuously pointing out the same thing (That he's not actually scumhunting and stating reads on them based on motivation behind posts) and he responding to it by flinging shit and then ultimately complaining about no time and replacing out.

hmm I thought he was talking about much earlier, you are correct about the vca being the first time he mentioned them, so scratch that.
still think you are drawing the wrong conclusions about his vca.

no longer comfortable with a timeater lynch.

[4nxi3ty]

Why?

timeater's vt claim, then pr sofclaim, then realizing he can't cause predecessor claimed vt gave off town vibes.
He didn't seem worried at all during that progression.

Avox joining the biggest wagon without reading the game is making me twinge a little.

[4nxi3ty]

Fairly sure the "ace up my sleeve" was supposed to refer to being Jaime Lannister and wasn't a PR softclaim.

I guess it could reference just the name; I wouldn't see a nameclaim as an ace. Regardless of what it refers to, it gave off town vibes.

Were you only going to comment on the Feysal wagon once to get townpoints from Regfan, or did you acually want to talk things out? Because I am not only here and willing, I am

eager

.

hmm? not really down for the wifom game you are playing. You seem hellbent on a feysal lynch, and letting other scumreads fall by the wayside?

[4nxi3ty]

Majority of your posts contain little to discuss deeply about and the greyscalling conversation lasted more than one post

broad generalization about my play and acting like I spent a significant amount of time on that greyscale idea?

the 'Think MoS is town because VCA doesnt' push on anyone' is relatively illogical since scums aim isn't as much to push on someone in a 28 player game but moreso to avoid the lynch themselves and faking contributions and efforts via something like a VCA does that.

thats not true, scum will push a lynch to keep the lynch off themselves or their buddies.

Your argument agaisnt MoS is he used a VCA to justify a vote on someone he thought was scum earlier, kortul(ie. he needed something to fake a scumread)

I'm saying scum are more likely to use a VCA to justify a jump on a more popular target. Why would he put all that effort into justifying a vote for kortul when he wasn't even close to being lynched? especially when he could easily just point to the original reason for thinking kortul was scum.

The main reason I find you scummy is, ime, you are much more objective with your reads as town. Here it feels like you are much more concerned with portraying someone's actions as scummy rather than looking at the motivations behind them.

Fair enough.

Vote: Feysal

Let's speed lynch him too, just for yucks.

Why do you think it is a good idea to sheep plums yo mama andor zdenek?

[4nxi3ty]

The main reason I find you scummy is, ime, you are much more objective with your reads as town. Here it feels like you are much more concerned with portraying someone's actions as scummy rather than looking at the motivations behind them.

Where do you see this specifically?

In Regfan's attacks against me, mos, and tim.
His overall tone is "this is scum!" and I am not seeing much of "is this scum?" from him; It is like every single argument we make is automatically wrong and scummy, If that makes sense.
Also, tim is correct with his overdeveloped attacks feeling contrived. It feels like Regfan is over-justifying his stances.

Another thing that bothered me is there are times when it looks like he is actively trying to appear the most pro-town -- "everyone we need to be more active" "yeah lets extend deadlines for the replacement"-- stuff that he doesn't neccessarily need to say.

tbh I would prefer a Regfan lynch over Thor at this point yet there has been zero momentum.

Thor, explain your thought process from being okay with a feysal lynch to thinking he is obvtown.

[4nxi3ty]

no not for explaining and pushing, it is the way you push your reads that I find scummy.

a newbie game where your IC is very different from a large theme game.
I am much more wary of someone who takes "Imma steer everyone in the right direction" route in this game.

what about what I said is scum?

[4nxi3ty]

Thor, explain your thought process from being okay with a feysal lynch to thinking he is obvtown.

I have explained this to around three people already - could you at least clue me in to what part of the explanation leaves you confused?
Because otherwise I'll just presume you're not reading.

pretty sure you haven't explained what in feysal's post is obvtown to you and want to know what prompted you to start calling him obvtown.

The change looks highly highly like him trying to not be imprinted on a Thor lynch if it goes through as well as leaving him to say "See, I wanted Regfan more at the end of yesterday!"

except the the thor lynch hasn't gone through yet and I haven't used that as a defense.

Regfan, you have had Benmage in your townlists for most of the game, why?

[4nxi3ty]

the point is you are calling me scummy for something that hasn't happened, If this was tommorow and I actually did that then you might have a point.

you've flat out avoided looking at certain people; Jal, Scumhunter/Starbuck, Mockingjaye/4nxiety and Plum to some degree other than slapping their names on your list.

MoS, *snip* The fact that you haven't stated any read on Jal/Scumhunter/Mocking and a bunch of other people including Benmage at all

so why did you want MoS to comment on one of your strongest townreads? every other read except for Jal(who was your weakest townread) was a scum read. Explain the difference.

[4nxi3ty]

Zdenek, I don't follow either of Tierces bolded quotes there at all being 'traitor hunting', think Tierces whole comments are just her being flavoursome similar to her back and forth of flavour discussion with Tammy and I don't think scum would be expecting a traitor in the setup unless there's only 2 killing scum which I don't think fits balance wise. With there being 3 killing scum they would likely consider a SK/2nd scum-team and that's about it. Also not seeing the 'subvert' thing either.

I ran a game with a traitor and the scum did know there was a traitor in the setup and the scum were flavorful when hunting for the traitor.
I don't think it is a homerun since it is not out of character for tierce to use flavorful phrases.

plus I want zdenek to explain his yesterdayread of me.

If Tyene flips Stannis, we auto-lynch Regfan.

nope.

[4nxi3ty]

it is not out of character for tierce to use flavorful phrases.

What games of mine have you read?

we were both in abarat and a mini normal you replaced out of. In this game alone it is quite obvious you enjoy roleplaying; If someone who didn't enjoy roleplaying as much used the term 'traitorous' in this game, it would be a stronger point.

I don't object to lynching Anxiety, but it seem like a pretty weak lynch if this is why it's being pushed.

Anxiety is an acceptable lynch, primarily because of MockingJaye's 1274.

leaning town on Zdenek. He generally seems to looking for scum rather than a mislynch.

I would not vote anxiety anymore.

vote: zdenek

[4nxi3ty]

4nxi3ty -I had a townread on mockingjaye. 4nxi3ty, while we are at it, the thing is... I did not RP in either Abarat (where I was scum and didn't know the flavor) or in hiplop's Mini Normal. So my question is how do you gather that I enjoy making flavorful posts and that this is a townish/null-at- most trait from me?

Even when you're not rping you still often write non-generic phrases, thats what I meant by flavorful phrases. The point isn't that using non-generic phrases is an alignment tell, pretty sure you would do that as either alignment; the point is in a setup with a traitor, using the term 'traitorous' would be a scumtell for some people. I don't think it is in your case.

pretty sure zdenek is scum from how he switches to no longer wanting my lynch after I call him 'leaning town'.

[4nxi3ty]

this has become a bit of a distraction so I am just going to come foward
not sure if this is the right decision but whatevs

I am randyll tarly, basically a joat, last night I investigated regfan and got back cersei lannister as a character name.
had a one shot roleblock that mockingjaye used on dolorous edd.
there is another aspect to my role that was used night two and night three that I do not want to reveal if possible.

If Tyene flips Stannis, we auto-lynch Regfan.

why did you think there was a connection between tyene and regfan?

[4nxi3ty]

cause it was going to happen anyway with how people continued to pressure shinori. I would much rather people focus on figuring out who is scum than on getting shinori to out his result.

[4nxi3ty]

Do want the other two nights abilities ect. outted, see nothing that really should be kept hidden there.

I have a very good reason not to reveal, if I thought it could help figure out alignments I would've done so already.

wish you would reconsider zdenek and not clear him because of meta. It is not unheard of for people to adapt to their meta.

massclaim is a good idea.

I'm a bit conflicted about thor atm. I was convinced jal was scum yet some of my reads have been completely wrong this game, plus I find myself agreeing more with thor than zdenek during their 1v1. And then there is Plums Yo Mama's push on thor; On one hand it feels like they are just jumping on whatever they can, On the other they did lynch scum in feysal.

[4nxi3ty]

Anxiety, first of all, going from thinking that you are an acceptable lynch to being unwilling to vote for you is hardly a huge change in opinion. Secondly, it had nothing to do with you thinking that I am town. The fact that you are suggesting that it is means that you haven't actually read my posts, where I clearly state that MockingJaye actually looks pretty good when it comes to having clearly stated suspicions.

don't care if it is a huge change or a small change, wanted to know why.

Is this the post you were referring to with regards to MockingJaye?

To regfan, I've explained my town read on MockingJaye. Yes, there's a serious lack of posting from her, but when she showed up she looked okay. It's true that she fits with both scum teams, but for me the game is not at the point where I'm willing to lynch a slot that's not a scum read because of PoE. That said, Anxiety's push against Jal when he replaced in, and now backing off of Thor is a problem for me, but only if one of them flips scum, and I'd rather investigate that possibility by lynching Thor

Thor can still die.

Unvote
Vote AVox

why AVox instead of Thor, he had more support at the time?

[4nxi3ty]

see no reason to fight an AV lynch, but:

Anxiety is an acceptable lynch, primarily because of MockingJaye's 1274.

Secondly, it had nothing to do with you thinking that I am town. The fact that you are suggesting that it is means that you haven't actually read my posts, where I clearly state that MockingJaye actually looks pretty good when it comes to having clearly stated suspicions.

his original reason for being okay with my lynch was mjaye posted something scummy yet now he is saying he changed his mind because mjaye's posting looked good. It doesn't add up. If I die tonight, hopefully someone will follow up on this tommorow.

[4nxi3ty]

avox, what is your take on zdenek v. thor?

why AVox instead of Thor, he had more support at the time?

I think MoS was scummier and AVox has done nothing to change that opinion.

the way you attacked thor compared to how you attacked MoS paints a different picture imo.

Holy fuck. I don't have to think that everything that comes out of a players mouth is townie to have an overall town read on the slot.

so you thought I was an acceptable lynch depite having an overall townread on my slot

[4nxi3ty]

I agree with the logic of a scumrolestopper wouldn't use it on town. The benefit of using it on a buddy severely outweighs any sort of indirect towncred. I want to reread MoS and see if he was aware of it being a rolestopper or thought it was a roleblocker.

Which is also why I think it's only 1-shot...

It should be very clear whether your ability is oneshot or not, what is making you unsure?

The development of my read on your slot should be incredibly clear if you were actually reading my posts. Here you go:

Okay lets pretend for a sec I am completely wrong about you making the mistake of calling my slot- "Overall town with one post that was scummy" and you in fact meant to say- "unsure of my read and changed my mind throughout the day". I still find your read changes more agendabased rather than changing naturally.

[4nxi3ty]

don't want a thor or tim lynch at this point.

As far as the other wagons on Thor and Timeater go, I'm pretty happy with both of them, so that's all good.

Says the guy voting AV while the wagon flakes out from under him and he doesn't address the claim.

But he's town and Thor is derp - carry on!

Holy fuck die.

Unvote
Vote: Thor

what was scummy about that post from thor? Not seeing anything that would cause a 'holy fuck die' reaction.

[4nxi3ty]

the case on zdenek as i see it:

>want him to explain his read of me and contradict his autolynch regfan statement
>no response

>pull up example of why i want him to explain (his change of read after i call him leaning town) plus a vote
>first point of why i am wrong is that it wasn't a huge change?
second point is that it had nothing to do with me all about mockingjaye looking town

>i pointed out that his original reason for wanting my lynch was that mjaye did something scummy and it didn't make sense with reasoning that she looked town
>he explains that not everything that a player says has to be town to have an overall townread

how he describes his mjaye read as overall town directly conflicts with him being okay with my lynch earlier. he then tries to go back and go 'look. see. my read developed and changed throughout the day' but that doesn't change how he described his read.

i am wondering if his constant need to stick to mjaye being the reason for his switch is just him avoiding that i did something to change his mind.

and i think some of thor's and tim's points against zdenek are valid as well.

[4nxi3ty]

the case on zdenek as i see it:

>want him to explain his read of me and contradict his autolynch regfan statement
>no response

NOPE!

I explain my read on you in Post 3292.
I explain my issue with Tierce and Regfan here:

uhh yeah. your lack of response was why i went into more detail and placed a vote.

It wasn't until after my vote that you started to explain and interact with me.(and you haven't really explained your read of me past the point of mjaye made a scum post and then I changed my mind to her looking town; aside from some throwaway comment about my back off on thor looks like there is connection between us, which you never really followup on.)

First of all, this was all bullshit, and my analysis of Feysal was awesome and exactly right.

leaning on the feysal lynch like a crutch for towncred.

zdenek is really town

how so?

[4nxi3ty]

Paranoid town and slightly tunneling town, but still town. This is different from the Zdenek I saw in AFFC and ASoS (both scum) who was much less committed and much more standoffish

Those games were ages ago, Is it possible he learned to be more committed and less standoffish as scum? I would like to hear a specific in-game thing that is town cause I am not seeing the paranoia and the tunnelmetatell doesn't hold water imo.

zdenek is really town

how so?

[4nxi3ty]

not sure why it is an issue to explain a read, especially when that read could possibly be lynched instead of your tim scumread.

maybe your current read on kortul would be more reasonable?

[4nxi3ty]

kortul is scum as fuck, sure

kortul is town as fuck, though.

hmm?

3. How would establishing a claim of a roleblocker help him from a cop?

You're not even reading.

In this game there likelihood of there being investigative roles other than cop is really high, so he'd probably want a solid claim.

Note: other than a cop.

Thor is desperately full of shit and I desperately want him dead now.

why are you treating not reading as a scumtell when not too long a go you misread one of my posts?

and thor is correct about zdenek urging on both wagons but not committing to either one until being called out on his av vote is scummy.

[4nxi3ty]

well i would like them to expand upon that read seeing as they are probably going to flip scum today and clam up tommorow so i would appreciate if you weren't so dismissive and let me try to get more info out them.

@zdenek

the case on zdenek as i see it:

>want him to explain his read of me and contradict his autolynch regfan statement
>no response

>pull up example of why i want him to explain (his change of read after i call him leaning town) plus a vote
>first point of why i am wrong is that it wasn't a huge change?
second point is that it had nothing to do with me all about mockingjaye looking town

the case on zdenek as i see it:

>want him to explain his read of me and contradict his autolynch regfan statement
>no response

NOPE!

I explain my read on you in Post 3292.
I explain my issue with Tierce and Regfan here:

uhh yeah. your lack of response was why i went into more detail and placed a vote.

It wasn't until after my vote that you started to explain and interact with me.(and you haven't really explained your read of me past the point of mjaye made a scum post and then I changed my mind to her looking town; aside from some throwaway comment about my back off on thor looks like there is connection between us, which you never really followup on.)

[4nxi3ty]

hmm?

Yes, my reads changed in 1000 posts. Please tell me you don't have issue with that.

nope, just wanted to know why since it was a significant change?

There is something badly wrong with you if you think that Thor ignoring something from a post of mine that he was immediately responding to is the same as me not realizing that you were referring to a line in one of your posts from 20 pages ago.

Your really grasping at straws, and you should stop it.

same no, similar yes.

misreading a post is a common occurrence here and you using it as justification for a lynch bothers me.

what is your read of me?

[4nxi3ty]

Vote: Zdenek

this lynch should've happened yesyerday.

Yesterday I pushing zdenek to go into more detail with his read on me because, despite what he may say, his read wasn't very clear. It went from an acceptable lynch for an mjaye post to an overall town read on mjaye back to there being some connection between me and thor. The progression and the lack of being able to flat out state someone is town, null, or scum is scummy

I'm done acknowledging your existence. A Day ago it was Feysal-making-me-Stannis, now you're trying to shoehorn me in Aegon.

this is a very good point. It is a very dissonant jump in logic.

I haven't reread much recently, instincts are telling me I should start with pandora.

[4nxi3ty]

what I am talking about is you taking a very vague and wishwashy stance on me, with very little followup. Even when I said I was no longer comfortable with thor's lynch you never asked me to explain why. Shows a lack of interest in discerning my alignment.

Not to mention a major disconnect in thinking tyene was a stannis-traitor yesterday to thinking she is a aegon-traitor today.

[4nxi3ty]

what I am talking about is you taking a very vague and wishwashy stance on me, with very little followup. Even when I said I was no longer comfortable with thor's lynch you never asked me to explain why. Shows a lack of interest in discerning my alignment.

Not to mention a major disconnect in thinking tyene was a stannis-traitor yesterday to thinking she is a aegon-traitor today.

1. What do you of of Tierce having no suspects?
2. I assumed you weren't comfortable voting Thor because of your scum read on me, and me voting him. Am I wrong?
3. I think Tierce is either a traitor or looking for a traitor. I've decided that it's more likely that she's a traitor, and I don't think there are two Stannis traitors. There's no disconnect, just a change of perspective.
4. What are your other reads?

I was just in a game where she was capable of faking reads so I don't see why she would purposely avoid giving reads as scum.
I was no longer comfortable lynching thor cause I liked his logic in his arguments against you.
sorry misspoke. You didn't say tierce was a traitor yesterday, you said she was hunting for a traitor in feysal. You turning around, saying she wasn't hunting a traitor and is in fact a traitor is a disconnect considering there is no evidence or event to cause that change in thinking.
this is where I am at atm:

town

minimum
tyene
bbmolla
kortul
avox
magua
thor
pandora
zdenek

scum

[4nxi3ty]

Anx, you should probably look at how wishy washy your reads on Pandora and Magua are, and then realize how stupid your case on me is.

both magua's and pandora's play yesterday felt very lacking compared to earlier and pandora's reasoning for thinking kortul is scum is offbase imo.

that being said, me not being confident in either my magua or pandora read does not mean I am wrong about you.

[4nxi3ty]

not seeing us doing the same thing, can you clarify?

[4nxi3ty]

i guess, but my point isn't that being unsure with your reads is scummy(otherwise i wouldn't have a townread on tierce) my point was more about the timing of your read.

[4nxi3ty]

My change of read came before you said your read on me was leaning town.

we've played this song before.

you may have made a comment about mjaye looking good before, but you didn't stand up and say you were against my lynch until after.

[4nxi3ty]

I am not doing nothing else I am currently re-reading the thread(mainly magua and pandora) and waiting to see who pushes for a massclaim and who lets it go.

If my case is

so

"weak" and I am

so

"pathetic", why are you so concerned about it? I am the only one voting you and I wasn't even in your scumpool, yet you are solely focused on shutting down my "dumb" case. You've completely stopped pressuring your thor and tyene scumreads despite being

so

adamant about lynching them earlier.

[4nxi3ty]

My opinion on Magua - slightly leaning town. He is open enough in his reads, there weren't suspicious or forced read changes or votes, he is consistent. Together with the absence of scum tells, that accumulates in a townish read over long run.

I did like most of Magua's explanations for his reads, still mulling over some comments he made about Feysal. I, also, agree with whoever said something about Magua going against the grain with massclaiming is townish. Don't want a Magua lynch at all today.

-Speaking of town frustration, Zdenek and Tyene may both be completely overreacting to the attacks on them, but that's how TOWN overreacts. I know, because I was in their shoes on D1 (as well as in many other games). It's not self-preservation; it's the constant low-grade pressure of being called scum all game, treated as though you have no credibility, and attacked with arguments you see as crappy, which are then replaced with new rationalizations for why you're scum when those arguments become outdated. From an outside PoV, it's just part of the game, but not when you're bearing the brunt of it. I want to build a protective shield around the two of them.

except Zdenek is getting a lot of credibility from the people calling him obvtown <.< and him overreacting to the singular person voting him, who he considers "dumb..weak.. and pathetic", like he is a viable lynch is suspect.

remember when I said tammy was night in abarat? remember when I thought shinori was town due to frustration? fighting a lynch can sometimes be a grave error.

and I don't think my arguments are outdated, merely overlooked.

[4nxi3ty]

already claimed.

i believe magua and minimum are the only ones left so magua is next.

and i don't think it is a good idea for minimun to reveal their ability.

[4nxi3ty]

Anx, fullclaim your abilities.
That's the point of massclaiming.

doing so would kinda make my ability pointless. what I have said so far should be enough for others to make an informed decision, if not I am willing to risk that at the moment.

Pandora, can I get your updated reads of zdenek and thor?

[4nxi3ty]

I don't have 6+ abilities, I only have 3, one of which that was active the other nights but hasn't been used up.

[4nxi3ty]

i am not seeing how it can clear others, if you can explain it to me i'll consider it. yet i am pretty sure it would be counterproductive

[4nxi3ty]

dammit nacho, i am town, and i have a one shot bulletproof that can't be used the same night as other abilities.

tyene's hop on my wagon has made me rethink somethings.
im pretty sure zdenek and tyene are stannis faction now.

zdenek has been consistently calling tyene scum yet has always found another wagon to push.
right after feysal flipped traitor and gave his vote to regfan, zdenek started bussing tyene for the traitorous comment and attempted to tie regfan to tyene.
when i defended tyene's traitorous comment, she suddenly starts writing more flavorful posts.
tyene praises plum and nacho after seeing both her name and zdenek's in the town pile.
looking back zdenek and tyene's interactions feels forced.

[4nxi3ty]

ACTUALLY
I see where claiming can be counterproductive for town in your position. I don't see how it's

as

counterproductive for Minimum to claim, and I specifically want her to claim so you can explain why you don't want her to claim, and you can also explain this:

massclaim is a good idea.

and all of your other pushes for massclaim when you knew that you weren't going to fullclaim.

that's reasonable enough, correct?

sure except i wasn't really pushing for a massclaim, that was my initial reaction to the idea. the way minimum said they didn't want to reveal today made it seem like they had a good reason not to share.

[4nxi3ty]

don't forget how zdenek is suddenly okay with lynching a townread eventhough the person he always tunnels at the the start of a day eagerly jumped on the wagon.

[4nxi3ty]

(Just lynch him already.)

tyene just wants me to stop talking about her and zdenek.

can't believe people have forgotten that timeater is a good scumhunter and was deadon about tierce's tone.

anybody else notice how quiet zdenek has gone today compared to earlier?

[4nxi3ty]

congrats stannis

wish I could've played as scum from the very beginning