Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[Tammy]

Are you guys seriously putting this much time into BB's very obvious fake claim? He fake claims something random a lot, it's oohing to get worked up over. As far as him dying today over it LOL!NOPE.

VOTE: gentleman bastards for writing a post I'm too slow to fully grasp on my first read through.

[Tammy]

Felt like it. I could jump on one of you guys for jumping on an obvious joke but that would be contributing to the problem and I'm hoping it ends soon.

Why'd you feel the need to write a novel about someone's obvious fake claim?

[Tammy]

Are you guys seriously putting this much time into BB's very obvious fake claim? He fake claims something random a lot, it's oohing to get worked up over. As far as him dying today over it LOL!NOPE.

VOTE: gentleman bastards for writing a post I'm too slow to fully grasp on my first read through.

This is a terrible post and you should feel terrible

I don't understand why you have to be scum in every game I play with you

VOTE: Tammy

:shrug:

That's cute. What are ou upset because I'm not following along with your BBDIESTODAY plan? It's called having a mind of my own.

I'm not scum here, but have rage capping my lynch through...or you could wait a few pages and see what the people who actually know how to read me say about m alignment. I'll give you a guess, it'll be town.

[Tammy]

Oh I actually don't care why your vote is there then. It's bad anyway.

[Tammy]

@mehdi - he actually hasn't. We were scum partners in heterosexual revolution before he replaced out, I've replaced into a town slot and a scum slot that he replaced out of, and he replaced into a game where I replaced into a scum slot that trollie had replaced out of, which is not exactly reading me. That's our experience together. He actually doesn't know how to read me, he's just acting like he does.

[Tammy]

Mehdi, what's your read on me?

Why do you care on page two?

[Tammy]

fyi the trollie slot had zero posts before you replaced into it so actually that is reading you.

Yes, but knowing that trollie has a tendency to replace out of scum slots has a bit of an advantage.

[Tammy]

Oh are you pointing out your voting me for voting gentleman bastards when we were out of rvs and talking srzbznz...see if you actually knew me, you would know I was half serious about my frustration. But since you haven't actually played any full games with me, you don't know that balance and role spec is something I'm supremely slow about and often get mixed up on, so whatever...carry on.

[Tammy]

Oh that's scummy. :bows: caught me...

Pedit: oh the laundry list of contradictory items...as I said step aside there are people here who actually know how to read me :shrug:

[Tammy]

Defend myself against what?

[Tammy]

Matt has an enormous ego. He thinks he knows what he's talking about, as exhibited, when he actually doesn't. My argument to him was specifically designed for him as he thinks he knows how to read me when clearly he does not.

[Tammy]

It's mainly the fact you're treating it like matt will stop because someone else will say you're town instead of you're own actions. Defend wasn't the best there, but this should make it clearer.

Oh but I know Matt won't stop. It won't stop me from pointing out how hilariously wrong he is.

[Tammy]

Mehdi, what's your read on me?

Why do you care on page two?

[Tammy]

What question? Why he's so concerned with someone's read on him on page two? Let him answer it.

[Tammy]

Yo just let me use my other shit before I get lynched, thanks.

What? Haven't you heard? Matt has declared me scum and the herd is falling in line CUZ TAMMY'S SCUM! You might get a days reprieve

[Tammy]

Okay BB is definitely town. When he's scum, he buddies me. When he's town, he goes "oh she's scum".

BB what happened to us? You used to be able to read me so well. I can't believe you're accusing me of doing something I don't even think I've done as scum.

[Tammy]

Actually I wanna shoot Tammy.

Are you for serious?

[Tammy]

Yeah for serious

Get in a fight with me so I start thinking you're town

You should have known I was town all along. You shouldn't need a fight, you didn't use to need that.

I have a duck

[Tammy]

Okay well never mind the one person I actually expected to read me correctly is calling me likely scum. Ignore everything I said before.

So the one time I manage to not completely lash out at being voted its scummy, while one other person is saying that my being illogical is proof that I'm vote worthy.

[Tammy]

Also regfork thanks for thinking I'm so imbalanced that I couldn't possibly be a bit calmer about a wagon forming on me in the early pages of day one, wagons that almost never go through and before I have a chance to actually do anything. I often don't worry about votes at this stage because I don't think they mean much, and if you had actually read me you would see that I had a bit of confidence in the people who knew how to read me. Totally wasn't aware the only way to prove I was town was to act like a raving nut job.

[Tammy]

Tammy, just to be very clear, you aren't getting lynched today. But maybe what would help you get out of this bind would be to focus less on being SnarkyMcSnarkSnark and more on scumhunting???

OK GNIGHT 4 REAL

That's Ms. Snark actually. I'll Scumhunt in this game tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Also gentlemen bastards I want a detailed explanation for why you think my post 109 is a logical fallacy...kthnxbai.

[Tammy]

Okay gentleman bastards might actually be scum here. There is what appears to be an intentional misrep of what I've stated. Did I think that Matt thought he had a scum read he would let go and push for all it's worth? Absolutely. Was I irritate that someone was acting like they could read me whe they couldn't? Absolutely. Was i also at the same time confident thay the people who knew how to read me would? Absolutley. Do I also have faith in my ability, as town, to prove myself as town? Absolutely. There is o me intentionally subverting my town meta. I don't flip out early day one most days. You can reference the start of mafia behind the maiden to see that's actually true. I didn't start acting like a lunatic until the wagon actually looked like it we going to go through. But, thanks a lot for acting like I can't actually work on my playstyle and attempt to remove some of the more annoying and anti-town aspects. As far as regfork being an insult and an ate, you couldn't be farther from the truth. It was just a bit of a joke from when faraday called you that in GvE when you called him scum. And since when would ate be a scum tell from me anyway? You actually lied within your post because I called BB town and you reference it. My read on BB flows one hundred percent logical. In both of the games in which he was scum and I was town, he gave me strong town reads without question. But he sometimes calls me scum when he's town to get a read on me. So where's your logical fallacy. I'm soaking from experience absolutely 100%. What are you talking about with GI and Sala? He didn't even mention Sala? Are you now saying I'm it allowed to ask someone a question to get a read on them? Because seriously...no seriously? As far as the Matt read...I haven't decided yet. Are you serious that I was supposed to make grand declarations? I love how you pull out my meta, but fail to even acknowledge that I'm a) not the most transparent player in the world and b) often take my time with things.

And my semi serious joke vote is for realsies.

[Tammy]

Also since I forgot earlier.

Vote: Tammy

Your vote is bad regfan.

[Tammy]

@regfan

1. And how is me not making sense when I feel like im being unfairly given a scum read incompatible with me at all?

2. I was joking about me being the lynch today. Im pretty sure I put an emoticon there. Yeah, I reacted to Matt, he has an ego and has faith in his reads. Ask him, doubt he's going to deny it. I absolutely expected him to keep pushing me, and no I didn't expect he knew how to read me, which is why I said to wait for people who did. Do you actually think scum me would have acted that confident that there were people who knew how to read me that we're playing? You are one of the people I know can read me. There's no way scum me would just know youd read me as town. I mean my scum game has gotten a little better but not that much better.

3. I 100% was not insulting you with regfork. In GvE, you called faraday scum and he said something along the lines of regfork has spoken put out your torch. I'm not quite sure why I remembered that when you called me scum, but that was what I was referencing, I have no clue about the Mina reference. Why would I insult you for mislynching, especially if is the game I can now think about I was responsible for a lot of mislynches myself. But no don't use AtE against me reg...just don't.

4. I don't understand why you're saddling me with your conclusions. BB used to be able to read me as town really easily. He didn't used to need reaction tests to read me, but lately he has. I didn't mean that just because he gives me a town read it makes hi scum. But when he is scum he doesn't question me at all. Look at GvE...look at the CoK game on westeros. Every time he's questioned me like tis he's been town. It doesn't mean that if he doesn't he's scum, it just means if he does he's more likely town.

5. I skipped over a bunch. I didn't see where GI posted about Sala, I saw a bu ch of talk about BB and got bored and posted. I havent gone back and Im catching up on games here since I was caught up with mafia at westeros this weekend. So what if you don't understand why I ask someone a question, I didn't know it had to be put through a committee. I think it was an extremely valid question as it sets the stage for how he's worried about being viewed by others. Like why does no one else see that? And why is it horrible that i want to know why someone is so worried about someone else's read on them on page two. and how come no one thinks it's weird he's refusing to answer?

Regfan, I should be an easy town read if youre actually reading me and are town. I'm actually really baffled at some of the stuff your throwing at me. No I'm not a really transparent player, nd of I actually joins game during rvs I might give a couple reads depending on how things go. You're likely to get maybe a few reads out of me day one as I'm not a strong day one player - maybe a bit of town reads early to mid day but that's it.

I'm just pretty confused by you right now.

[Tammy]

1/2 I don't understand what you can't follow? My push on Matt, because I think that makes the most sense. And no no no, there's no way scum me tells Matt who's calling me scum (and who I know pushes hell when he has a scum read) to step aside for others who know how to read me. I don't act like that as scum. I don't have confidence that people are going to read me as town when I'm scum. I mean I guess you could say I'd say that, but would I really...about someone who has read me pretty accurately? I hate being scum, you don't think I'd have waited I the wings to figure out my best angle to make myself look townie..or at least try?

3. Didn't know it was an insult...actually thought it was a survivor reference be ause of the way I remember it being used. You accused me of using AtE. I don't think I did, but I get accused of it all the time. My "AtE" is what caused rofl to mislynch me at lylo in flavorless. It gets thrown at me a lot,a nd I don't know what people mean because I just say what I'm thinking.

5. That's bs reg and you know it. You know that sometimes questions early day one are to get reads on people. What about the way he might have answered it that could have sparked a conversation that could have helped me get a read? Why is he so worried about someone s read on him on page two and why are you filtering it for him? You have now essentially said he spdoesnt have to answer it and now I don't get to even try to get a read on him that way because you've interfered and called me scum, so now he especially doesn't have to answer. You have made a horrible erroneous led to my question and something about GI that I can't fathom is a natural progression for you as its a normal type question I ask early.

No really, i'd like for you to spell this out for me...what is wrong with asking why someone is worried about a certain persons read on them on page two? Why are you intercepting that and invalidating my question? Because I thik it s a pretty valid question to ask someone and you claiming that I'm going to set some up like that is super weak and is not even something I remember doing as scum. You're stretching hard to put motives on me before I've even had the conversation, which is super scummy.

You've never seen me have zero reads at early game? Are you serious. A) I almost never join during rvs because I hate it and I usually wait until page six or so so that I can evaluate the ridiculousness that goes on. 2) in mafia behind the maiden you will note, from what I remember I called spyrex town and tierce scum in the early game. The next day after the debacle of my wagon building I made a wall post in which I gave a few reads. 3) most of my games here are replacements because I hate day one, I get some town reads over time but I usually fuck up on scum reads and end up making a fooled myself at lynch time due to Sheeping or jumping off wagons. I wish mt day one reads were better, I'm not a day one player. 4) as I said earlier ill reread this thread tomorrow and I doth think I wouldn't have tried to give some reads today and Scumhunt these first few pages to look like a good old little townie as scum, you're nuts.

You don't need to do meta research on me reg...you're just reading me terribly. And this is not like the WoT game I don't have hours and hours to prove it to you...you're just wrong.

[Tammy]

^^^ this is brilliant. If youre going to vote me for fuck all reasoning is it to much to ask that you spell my damn name right? I mean it's right there I the first post. For heaven's flipping sake it's in the post RIGHT ABOVE THE VOTE.

[Tammy]

And dammit. I promised myself id stop getting in unproductive wall wars with people, and here I'm doing it again. Sorry.

[Tammy]

Oh wow so ref...GI voted for sala you're right and said it wasn't rvs. Now I'd like you to explain a little something something for me. If I was oh.olseetingslaluptofollowgreyice, why didn't I jump on his question for explanation of grey ice's vote? I mean if I was trying to follow along, why didn't I pick up on that? Why did I ask a TOTALLY UNRELATED QUESTION? I'm going to need a serious answer on this. B

[Tammy]

You know regfan I can't believe you would take that as an insult from me. I just looked back, and the game you're referring to was one in which I derailed a scum lynch and forced a mislynch because I was so certain of my read. I'm pretty sure I was so certain of my read that I proclaimed that if people wouldn't agree to the lynch I wanted, I would make sure no lynch happened. It was supremely stupid of me to do that and you actually think I was insulting you?

Okay imma stop spamming the thread now. For future vote references my name is spelled with a "Y". Ktnkxbai

[Tammy]

*sigh* post 230 probably means your town unless scum were also given the option of a personal qt. in the first game did scum make group bids or personal bids. (that's probably answered somewhere...don't feel like looking right now.)

But if you're town regfan I can't understand why you're not actually reading my posts. The latest one was such a stretch you're confusing me even more.

1) yeah, my interaction with Matt was instinctual...how does that make me scum again? Oh cuz I'd get so nervous at being called scum that I'd scuttle my ass in here right quick? Eh...wrong...thanks for playing. I love when that type of argument is used against me, especially since my scum game says otherwise. In my first game ever faraday cam back with a cop guilty and I saw him post it immediately, I went for a run and thought about how to approach it. You can look at the team mafia qt to see me thinking about my responses. You can look at abarat and see in the qt where I saw flash fake claim night and vote me and see that I waited until the next day to deal with it while I tried to figure out how best to.

I have no idea what my response to him would be as mafia, I'm not mafia. It sure as hell wouldn't be for me to expect someone else who knows how to read me to come back and read me as town. That makes no sense for me as a person who expects the people who know how to read me to read me as scum when I am. You can again refer to the abarat qt in which I was convinced that minimum has to be the sk and were keeping me alive out of necessity because I couldn't fathom fooling Mina and ces. You can look at ny151 for how I have responded to Matt calling me scum when I was scum though.

3. I know I said more than once I didn't intend it as an insult and I'm sorry you took it that way. I don't remember the contents of dead qts from months ago that well. Hell I dont even really remember what was in the one I just read yesterday.

5. So? Why are you policing my questions. There's no reason for me not to ask him that question in order to interact with him. I was interested in his response. I don't understand why you have a problem with this and then accuse me of not scumhunting when interacting with people *is* how I get my reads. Hell, I called an accurate scum read on Junpei within minutes of me replacing into flavorless based on how he reacted to me asking him if he was scum

as a joke

. Again, you are baffling me right now.

6. Hey regfan! Hi! How are you doing? The game is less than 24 hours old. And you know what you can check out GvE, pretty sure the source of my first argument was me not giving reads, oh not voting for a whole week and continuing not to present my reads throughout the whole game. The game was what 5 pages when you're making some big deal about me not having reads, except I actually did...BBMolla town and leaning scum on you. I also said I was catching up in games and would actually read the thread today twice. I was interacting with people yesterday. I don't know why you would think I wouldn't give content. I provide content even as scum. As far as another game, mafia behin the maiden. During rvs I declared zdenek town and sheeped him as a joke. I called spyrex town after magister ludi asked me what I thought his alignment was when he was pushing for my lynch, and I think I called tierce scum. It wasn't until the next day when I actually read the thread that I gave reads. Something I said last night I'd do today here, and will later, but have a leaning scum read on defender for his busy work and saying one of my posts would have had him vote me but not actually voting me. I really haven't read the whole thread though.

7). Again you are pre-assigning motives to me. You didn't even wait to see if that was what I was actually doing before saying what I might do with a question that is fairly standard for me to ask people actually. Again, baffled, but I'm going to stop this wall war with you because either you accept what I've told you or you don't and I don't want to cause a distraction for the game by continually arguing with you over this.

Pedit: Pitty when did I go silent? My last post was about 12 hours ago. Welcome to my scum pile Pitty!

Waiting to see MoIs response and hoping someone will answer the question I asked in the very top of the post as it wasn't directed to just to regfan. I misread my role pm's, don't read the whole thing all the time, it is possible to miss it. I didn't opt for the qt and quite frankly didn't even realize the benefit of it until last night, but meh.

[Tammy]

You know what I just flove? Is when someone who has never played a game with me before acts like others who have don't know my meta.

I also love that your just languishing on my wagon waiting to see which way the wind blows.

So Mehdi - Here you go, have some fun!

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22064
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21773
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22173
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21408
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=22361

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22659
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22454
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22956
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4146617 - I'm Captain Leela here.

[Tammy]

I said exactly what I meant. I believe your waiting to decide to see what way the wind blows so you know what way you should go.

[Tammy]

I know isn't fabulous Mehdi, it's like I haven't said more than once that I would read the thread and post reads tonight. A little hint: That usually includes a vote. >_>

I don't know what my read is on you yet Mehdi; haven't read the thread yet really. You're definitely not a town read though from what little I remember about you.

[Tammy]

How about we all agree to vig him tonight? Deal?

Uh...

Is this inside information the night kill didn't go to the scumteam?

Because cool

Did you really believe this was a possibility when you commented on his previous post in which he claimed the double voter?

[Tammy]

I'm going to cry. I had reads and comments written for the first ten pages, and accidentally closed the page I was typing on.

[Tammy]

Defender's scum. I said that I was leaning that way earlier. His whatever post it was was just busy work, connected to make it look like he was contributing. His read on seanald didn't make much sense and from that post he should have vote either me r Stefan but voted neither.

[Tammy]

But did you look at the self meta thing he voted me for? For explaining my issues with understanding balance, roles and setup spec. That doesn't really make much sense.

[Tammy]

Can we invest during the day? GI mentioned it, but I thought it could only be done at night.

[Tammy]

Bah...I don't have the heart to remake that post right now. I've caught up, but have promised content elsewhere too tonight and am exhausted. I promise promise content tomoorw.

Regfan - I feel like im being so contradictory even in my own head. I can, of course, get reads within 24 hours. You know I play on a site with 32 hour days. You still never see reads lists from me that early. And I gave a few reads already, you just keep ignoring them. Sometimes I do have good reads and sometimes I don't, but what I'm more frustrated with is that the game hasn't been going on that long and it feels like your acting like weeks have gone by and I haven't provided content.

Regarding grey ice - I'm nowhere able to give him a town read right now even though I really really want to. But he fooled the fuck out of me in mafia behind the maiden and I always feel a sense of paranoia when that happens. However his self meta on bussing seanald if they were partners read pretty genuine, and for how hell defend someone you should look at closed normal where he got pissed off when we lynched delta wave, who was scum that I'd been bussing. It reads similar to here.

Okay, I will recreate my reads and comments tomorrow.

VOTE: d3f3nder

Will also vote seanald but he's too closets a lynch at the moment, and defender needs some attention paid to him.

Also so does Elmo. Did he really walk in and go "whats up with a seanald lynch" nd walk out with no more content whatsoever?

[Tammy]

Wait you guys are getting ready to hammer? Can you please please not do that yet? I'm right in the middle of making ~content~. Thanks.

Oh I'm not the oracle.

[Tammy]

Okay Regpire here's your ~content~

Probably a half good thing I accidentally x'd out of my page yesterday because it was so stream of conscious almost no one would have read it, well except regfan so he could examine it for traces of scumcells :p Note to self if you have multiple tabs open in iPad browser DO NOT have the tab you're writing in next to the tab you're reading. Way to easy to accidentally hit the little x.

BB - stays town, and hey man, nice shot!

Stefan - town too. That qt reaction test paid off well.

GB - town read getting stronger. Still a bit baffled by his inability to read me correctly in this game, and almost had a knee jerk eff off reaction to Post 442 along with a disclaimer that I'd get around to it when I felt like it, but dogging me for reads is just a stronger indication your town. Whatever, you'll read me correctly eventually...just can you pick up the pace and get over whatever it was that made you think I was scum in the first place. I feel like I'm being asked to approach this game in a way thats not natural for me, and I can't give you things the way you want them. I've given reads and commented on them just because they weren't in a tidy reads list and trickled in as I felt them doesn't mean I have no content. I mean I know I don't have much, but still.

I was going to ask your advice for what I should do tonight, but with the recent bouts of Tammy's probably MoI's partner because he made a FACTUALLY TRUE statement pretty much let's me know my longevity in this game is going to last longer than my more recent games and the best thing for me would probably be to invest. Yes?

Sala's claim about this looks intensely genuine and his play overall reads really town. He tends to go all scattered as town like this but mehdi's suggestion in Post 439 reads intensely disingenuous. Maybe it's because I've been suspicious of his play overall as he keeps trying to make people look scummy by insinuating theyre doing things that they aren't doing.i just don't get the feeling that he's honestly trying to make out people's alignments but are trying to assign scummy things as this. Part of this could be because he's acting as if he knows things that are contrary to evidence, when the fact is moi does bus when it's needed hard and early, and his "bus" of seanald wasn't really anything. This is multiball so I know he would be less likely to bus in this situation, and actually his question to sala about their read on dabois could have been some early doubt spreading. Also, it's been brought up but seanald could be on the opposing team. I guess what strikes me as odd is that he said MoI could have attacked me for my meta without trouble, but didn't. Are we reading the same thread? I'm a pain the ass. I know I am, and I fight back. He wasn't going to say something contrary to the actual in game experience we have. Don't get me wrong of he thought he could exploit something and lynch me he would, but I'm not the easiest person in the world to lynch and he knows that. He dealt with that in the way that would be best for him (and was also true actually).

Blah, I actually keep going back and forth on mehdi. There are real moments of genuiness, and yes this is multiball, but he's also pushing defender who is a scum read of mine as well. I don't know what to make of his hard defense of seanald who looks rather scummy to me. some of the evolution of his reads reads natural, and it could just be a matter of adjusting to his playstyle.

@mehdi - when you are reading seanald, do you take into account that this is multiball? I ask because you seemed to have gotten your town read on him based on his post to you that he read you as town within two pages? Is that your only reason? If so, in multiball he wouldn't know your alignment, and even if he did, if you defended him in the past, he might be trying to capitalize on that.

Oh yeah before I forget - someone said grey ice probably wouldn't go all pmsy over a buddy, but he actually would. In mafia behind the maiden we got some caps rage when we were lynching his partner. I don't get the feeling he's doing that here so not really sure why I brought it up, it's just that people keep discounting things on "I don't think so and so would do that" and it can often be totally wrong.I

Peregrine is probably town and I think this is the first game I've gotten an early read on pere that was anything but scum or null. It's mostly on his Post 185. I realize he could do this as scum too, but it reminded me of the way he approached the setup in heterosexual revolution.

Oh also, there's been a case on defender, but I'd like to point out that he hasn't voted yet. I know this isn't much of a tell and some people hold their votes for a while (like me!) but he's defending seanald who's top wagon getter and when he did his busywork earlier he made a comment that something I did would probably have gotten a vote and he called out Stefan for a scum slip. There should have been a vote on one of us for that. Although his not knowing about the qt coupled with his busy work content is strong enough.

I want to have a town read on dabois but paranoia holds me back a little. I actually think they're town, but I also thik that Matt has a decent scum game (and he is willing to bus early - we bussed the hell out of each other in heterosexual revolution early day one), but his play looks nothing like the scum game we had together or his slot I replaced into in abarat. Plus his calling himself town and that he's been transparent and feels like this is one of his best games reads intensely genuine.

Seanald is most likely scum as well, his jump on me for self meta was extremely bad especially if you look at the self meta he was voting me for. It looks like someone who was looking for reasons to joi. The wagon that was going to be pushed by the loudest mouth in the game. His unvote was bad too in that Matt was right his aggressiveness was terrible. The language used was intentionally insulting and designed to get a reaction, and that just reads off. His "I've seen her do this before and she turned up town" reads really off too.

I know that I had more in here last night, but that will just have to trickle in as I remember it.

@gb - was the offer to make a qt for you in the same place in the pm as the request for your hydra qt?

Oh not the nk.

[Tammy]

I guess the reason why I'm focused on that and asking is because in KH he brought up something about my role claim, in suggesting it was a fake role/scum role, and a lot of people thought it read really genuine. And it was, his team did think I was a member of the opposing scum team foe my claim. He basically got a pass until nearly end game for that when he was bussed by his partner.

Also, why his on voting be ause he "saw me do this as and turn up town" read off is because the only game we have experience together that I remember is kingdom hearts in which the only reason my alignment was questioned was because of the role that I had and I spent a really long time arguing with magna about it, which really not comparable to my reaction to someone getting a gut scum read.

[Tammy]

Why is the oracle going to the scummier player?

[Tammy]

Uh...for making Sean the oracle bidder, have you thought it out? I mean is it a role that scum will want? If he did get the cop role then he doesn't have any money left? I drove the price up because I bid $90 dollars on the cop role. I still have $91. If theres a role that we need to make sure doesn't end up in the scums hands, I could bid on it. Or I could invest for future days, whichever.

Pedit: then, invest?

[Tammy]

Tammy we get wages and efficiency. If the day were to end now all townies (except BB since he lacks wages) would get 110 additional dollars.

No, I know that well get money, but he's starting with the bare amount while others have more to spend, therefore will have a big chance of being outbid.

[Tammy]

Also, if defender comes back scum. I want you to suck it for my lack of ~content~ when in post 260, I said I was leaning scum on him and why.

If he comes back town, never mind and carry on with your regularly sceduled bidding.

[Tammy]

^^^okay maybe not suck it, but something.

[Tammy]

I'd say eating a hat but that's only when two people have diametrically opposed reads. I should probably just shut up now.

[Tammy]

Oh mehdi - stubbornness isn't really an alignment tell for me, it's a personality tell. Though I tend to be more stubborn as town...depending on the circumstances.

[Tammy]

Are we at L-2?

[Tammy]

UNVOTE: . For safety purposes.

[Tammy]

Why do you think?

[Tammy]

Greygnarl - answer my question?

[Tammy]

So, Elmo are you claiming to have investigation immunity?

Why didn't you claim it earlier if so?

Also, if you could describe in bright and shiny colors why you're languishing on my wagon if you're not scum. That would be awesome...thanks.

[Tammy]

Okay this is going to be brief. I'm sick as hell and going back to bed.

I agree with the plan. I have $91, please don't make me do math right now my head is pounding.

I don't care what role I get tonight, so dabois and dagentlemen, just put me down for whatever and please post what I'm supposed to do if you guys lynch before tomorrow afternoon. If I'm not supposed to bid and just invest just tell me that too.

It'd be nice defender if you actually pointed out what scum team was that was pushing your lynch.

I'd put my vote back, but that would him back at L-1, and I think there's enough around to vote him if necessary. If you need me to vote, just post that too and if I wake up again I'll vote.

[Tammy]

I have some catching up to do. I tried to follow along but being sick and trying to follow mafia when a lot of it was just noise was too frustrating. Yes, it's nice to have some extra money, but five dollars is not enough to demand lynches and threaten people if they don't hammer. Getting the lynch right is what matters more and if it cuts into our efficiency bonus it does.

I got the ninja last night. Please tell me that's what I was supposed to bid on. It was called MoNa here, and magua wouldn't answer me that it was the same thing.

I'm trying to figure out why mafia wasn't interested in gaining any of the abilities besides the night kill.

I took a chance after the price didn't go up after my first bid, and bid a little over half my money and invested the rest.

[Tammy]

If you're the neighborizer, why do you want Eid to neighbor you? Why not just neighborize her?

Did you ever get to talk to GB?

[Tammy]

So then you didn't win the night 0 neighborizer x2?

[Tammy]

Can someone who played in this game last time verify that's how neighborhood's work here? Every time I've played in a game with a neighborhood, it's been immediate. Like if you activate it at night, it starts at night.

[Tammy]

*sigh* If I could just get through one game without confusing something about roles or missing something that would be awesome.

[Tammy]

Is there a reason we're not advocating the bulletproof going to someone more likely to die? Say the doctor or dabois?

[Tammy]

I think Sala's town, and I think he means well. I just doubt very seriously he's a night kill target and think it should go to someone who likely is.

Although the doctor will be out of shots tonight before they could use the bp, but still would be more of a night kill target than Sala.

[Tammy]

^It's shit like this that makes me think Voided is scum.

Because I'm pissed that you're making a joke about this game being abandoned?

Yep. Scum get more pissy about shit, town are more relaxed.

I have one more shot.

Probably will shoot Seanald.

Eh...sometimes those things are personality.

[Tammy]

Tailor makes them investigation proof?

I don't care.

Also, at the start of night I'll have $208 (before wages, efficiency bonus, if any was transferred to me). If that helps for what to bid on. Unless we think I should bid on something, I would like to invest my entire amount. I really don't think I'll be a likely night kill tonight or the next, so investing would probably be a good idea for me so that I can bid on something and win it tomorrow.

Also, I think that some of the focus on the bidding and abilities is getting in the way of scumhunting and becoming a distraction. It's really easy for scum to blend in talking about this kind of stuff, and if we focus on it, it will just make it too easy for scum to hide.

pedit: Also on the dabois not town thing, eh. I think that if they weren't town, they wouldn't have actually tried to read me. They could have easily soared to a Tammy is scum read but they didn't. Them declaring that my response to them was a town response even in the face of GB, and regfan especially who knows how to read me and was calling me scum, reads really town to me as does their statement at the end of yesterday that they felt they were playing a transparent game.

pedit2: name comes from the hydra request thread

[Tammy]

Mehdi - Why is neighborizer so important to you?

[Tammy]

Currently desires role wise are I want eid to target me with neighborizer and sala wants BP. I pretty much want his opposite (SDB buying it since I know they're enough of a night kill target and I want them alive).

Mehdi, if you believe I am town (and I am):

1. Cop should not bid on bulletproof (unless BBMolla can dayvig tomorrow)
2. SDB should not bid on bulletproof
3. I need bulletproof

I'd rather not explain why this is, but I'm hoping you can trust me here on this one. It is perfectly fine if SDB dies.

Why is it perfectly fine if dabois die?

[Tammy]

Hey look this game slowed down and I'm being talked about getting shot.

*twitch*

VOTE: elmo

Yeah, acceptable shot.

[Tammy]

Sala - I'm not going to just trust your plan because you say so. Sorry. I am town, but I really don't care about you getting rid of your paranoia. I happen to believe that Matt is a decent scumhunter, so no it's not perfectly acceptable to me that they die.

There is no, if I'm town, I trust you. I'm town. I believe you are town, but I don't blindly trust anyone.

[Tammy]

Sala - Your plan was pretty obvious once I went back and looked to see what you got last night, but what would make you think they'd be better to the game dead than alive?

I'm just pretty astounded that you would want strong players dead so you could be a stronger player when you could let them help you scumhunt while you're both alive.

[Tammy]

I never called you an idiot Sala, and I didn't mean it that way. No, you're not very likely to be a high night kill target, but neither am I. But, I'm not seeing why you think it's perfectly acceptable to be selfish and allow strong players to die just so you can be stronger when you can listen to their reads while they're alive.

[Tammy]

^This is obv MattP

Well, yeah, there was proper capitalization used.

[Tammy]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I saw another game he replaced out of in the queue. I don't think he'd do it just because he was scum when he was looking forward to his game.

[Tammy]

I don't see anything in that daykill worthy dabois. Really, over Elmo?

[Tammy]

I've never played with greygnarl, I don't know what is usual for him. And you're highlighting some of the bad parts. In post 1289 you highlight the not good ideas part, but you don't highlight him empathizing with Sala's POV. And you highlight all those things when you've said:

hey sala you know whats stupid as fuck? your plan. its seriously fucking retarded.

So, if you're going to call someone else out for unsolicited aggressiveness, you have to look at what you said to him as well.

[Tammy]

Sala - it's a good plan if they die. I understand what you were going for, as I said I think you mean well...I think you always mean well as town. But, if we can keep them alive, that's even better. Make them be forced to take out other players because the chances they take you out aren't all that great, and that's not an insult it just is (I'm not usually an early game nightkill; it's super rare I go out before night four at this site and am often left alive until later - and my biggest strength as town isn't that I'm a great scumhunter, I'm decent, I'm just hard as hell to mislynch).

[Tammy]

no im not saying that we wont be shot. but if you recall your plan was give the bp to you so that we could die and you would get to channel our spirit for a day.

the breakdown here is why not just give the bp to us in the first place if its expected we are going to die?

[Tammy]

... I'm investing tonight then

I think that's a good plan. That's what I want to do tonight. We need to the people who are unlikely to take a night kill to invest so we can afford to outbid scum the next night when it will become more important.

Sala - people underestimate you. You used that to your advantage as scum in Disney Villains, use it to your advantage when you're town.

[Tammy]

Yep! Doesn't mean I wasn't being honest then either.

[Tammy]

Someone mentioned (at least I think someone did...) that all this talk about night actions is letting scum hide and be "town".

That was me! I love knowing someone reads my posts

[Tammy]

Money claiming:

Started with $100
Bid $90 on cop, lost $9 for bid
Ended night with $91.
Received $100.
Bid $100 on Ninja, won it for $1
Got back $99
Invested $91, will get $109 back at the start of night 2
So, essentially I have $208.

[Tammy]

I'm supposed to get money from Elmo, but I doubt very seriously that's gonna happen.

[Tammy]

Seanald - What do you think about Elmo?

[Tammy]

Philammon - Over half of your posts have been about the mechanics of the game, do you have any comments on the players in the game?

[Tammy]

I'll be getting to this game in just a bit. I'm still trying to catch up in my games.

I don't think anyone is around but I don't want a hammer before I catch up so

UNVOTE:

[Tammy]

Bb...please don't shoot greygnarl

[Tammy]

Okay, we should def be shooting or lynching Elmo today. I know he has a tendency to be lazy even as town, in Kirby he kept talking about harvesting dead souls or something, but he at least commented on the game when he actually showed up. He's doing nothing now. Complete waste of space.

Looked through gb and their last reads were Phil, Elmo and maybe greyice or eidolon they'd be willing to lynch. They also were bidding on watcher though, so scum could have also been trying to get that out of the way. The original replacement for greyice, I've seen posting over the past coul,e of days so don't know what to make of that, but I do think that eidolon has site flaked, so...

Phil's list of reads looks good. I don't agree with all of them but the fact that he's puting unpopular suspects, like dabois, in it speaks favorably of him. Usually scum, especially somewhat of a passive player like him won't put a universal town read as a scum read. I do tend to suspect people who feel the need to comment on every player in a large game though I'm willing to accept sometimes it's playstyle (hi regfan!).

Sala - do you mean the transferring money plan having scum motivation? Cuz, yes, I can see why scum would want to organize money transfers, but I'm not seeing scum motivation in their play. But I don't see them having seanald transferring money to gentleman bastards. Without knowing if seanald was town (and bidding for cop could very well be a scum bid) I can't see them transferring that to someone who was overwhelmingly town. Wait.

Phil - who did you transfer money too?

Yeah but overall they read town to me. I understand being paranoid and I think that seanald's read of them reads really fake and overdone.

I'm also feeling paranoid about tazaro. This is totally on him taking my side on day one and Sheeping me. I'm really susceptible to buddying and tend to look favorably at people who take my side in an argument and I know this, so I've come to suspect people who do now, so take this with a grain of salt.

Gg's read list sets me on edge a little. I mean I love being called logical, but idk...that type of read is a little paranoia inducing.

[Tammy]

So, I was thinking about this game last might and realizing that I have no clear reads at all. I have some strong town reads but this is shaking up to be one of those games where I can't get a strong scum read. I hate that. And I really think part of the problem is that scum are just hiding behind the mechanic...or just hiding.

I was going back through the game and greygnarl's Post 235 read really fake to me. His recent play reads more town, but I'm eh about the "our buddy" thing when talking to bb about his shot.

I think some of my tazaro paranoia is scaled back by Post 233 though.

Still happy with an Elmo lynch.

Don't know why dabois are wanting a possible Phil lynch. I think that Phil is the type of player who tends to get suspicion a lot, and his reads and effort make me not wanting to lynch him today.

Did shamrock really complain that no one would tell him who the scum were and not come back? Do not discount greyices fit over MoI's dayvig as making him confirmed town. I've seen him caps rage over losing a buddy before, and I think that because that is how he genuinely feels about moi in general, he'd be more likely to react that way regardless.

The only people I really feel strongly about being town are salamanca, BBMolla, Stefan, and mostly voided, dabois, and mehdi. I really don't feel great about anyone else. I feel relatively decent about tazaro, greygnarl, and pere, but the rest is a toss up.

[Tammy]

Uh Nero is eidolons replacement right? He's semi v/la due to computer issues, so there's not guarantee when he shows up.

Sorry.

[Tammy]

magua

- I just realized you have me voting for cfj and not voting. Me not voting is the correct one.

[Tammy]

I've been procrastinating on this game because I keep thinking about writing a catchup post and not wanting to do it, so I'm just gonna not do it, because otherwise I'll just keep not posting.

Someone should ask me things.

*twitch*

VOTE: shamrock[/b]

[Tammy]

Dammit

VOTE: shamrock

[Tammy]

If it is true the scum put in all that money to advertise neighborizer, is it really best for me to try to get it? I think I have more money than a lot of people but just want to make sure we want to go that route.

Also, I saw it asked, I put in my bid on cop at the very end of the night.

[Tammy]

@pere

I'm not sure why you're asking me specifically for my thoughts on your Post 1713

If you're town it looks like you're having as difficult a time with clear reads as I am. I don't have a town read on Pitty either, though from what I understand piggy likes scum better, but her play here doesn't feel like her play in the game we just finished in which she was town. And I don't think mala has really posted, and although I know her to be a bit of a lurker from time to time when she replaced into ladies night in the last night, she put in great effort and helped town win...that might have been because she was a VIG though. I'll reserve judgment until tomorrow. They're supposed to have transferred a good amount to Stefan last night and if they did, they're more likely to be town.

Seanald - I don't know what to do about seanald, but if guille is clear, I'm really disappointed in his play. He, if seanald is town, is confirmed town so should actually be putting in some effort and I'm not remembering anything from him which is worrisome.

Why so you have so many nulls? And, at the risk of being really self-absorbed, why are you null on me pending meta research? We've played several times, you've seen me as town and as scum, and you've never had to make meta research before being able to form some kind of opinion on me. The fact that you're leaving me in null feels like you're stalling to give an opinion.

[Tammy]

Mehdi - Kay. Just making sure.

[Tammy]

I've been procrastinating on this game because I keep thinking about writing a catchup post and not wanting to do it, so I'm just gonna not do it, because otherwise I'll just keep not posting.

Someone should ask me things.

Hey greygnarl - greyice might have come off null to you, but this is a scum post.

[Tammy]

Because in other games, you spoke often and with content, even if you sometimes get defensive. In my only scumgame with you, you were similar but not (Team Mafia), but I attributed it to the fact each of us was on a team more than being scummy. But, I think if you post more that I can spot that difference. And if you are town, then I can call you out to scumhunt more, like in the post above.

My problem with Pitty the hyrda is that you expect posting to be at the minimum = that of one person, if not more. So for the number of posts plus my day1 reasons, I have her/him/it hard leaning scum.
Slumber is starting in that vein also. 6000 posts day1 all up into it, and now three posts all day.

And it's not always about the null. It's the fact that if I have too many townreads, then some of them must be wrong. But callfor is semi-redeeming the Elmo slot, and if guille knows he's town and has been cleared by town, then yes, his posting is also massively delinquent.

Okay, this makes sense. You also saw meas scum in heterosexual revolution though. I've posted reads and done some scumhunting, but it's become a bit difficult in this game. The mechanics discussion are really drowning out scumhunting a bit and some people are really just dropping out of focus. I'm hoping in a day or two, the focus on the mechanic will drop some as I really do think that people are hiding in it. But this probably won't help too much as the people are continuing to Scumhunt will be killed off.

The drop off of ctivity for dabois is somewhat disconcerting.

[Tammy]

What do I do with my money?

If you aren't bidding on anything invest it.

[Tammy]

All the shit being piled on Phil on the last two pages is just that: shit.

I don't want GG buying the NK now.

I agree that GG doesn't look great, but I don't think it's too much of a danger if he gets the night kill regardless of his alignment. We're going to know exactly what he's done with it, and if it ends up on someone it shouldn't he'll be autolynched next day. So I think it will be fine.

[Tammy]

---------[]

[Tammy]

I'm getting a slight scum read on Tammy. This is coupled by MoI's defense on her when Seanald attacked her for self meta.
This postby Tammy sticks out a bit since there's a bit of aTe in it. That by itself just gives me a horrible gut vibe.
She calls Defender scum, but doesn't vote Defender here. Seems as she's allowing us to know her opinion, but doesn't want to push for it. Located here.

Cool. So, now you get to explain how "AtE" is a scum tell. You've played with me, don't pretend it's anything but a personality tell. MoI didn't defend me, he stated a factually true statement. Did you not notice that I voted defender just a few posts later after I had finished catching up with the thread? Did you notice that post 354 was a response to a question about my thoughts on defender? And that post 370 included my vote? So, how was I pushing a wagon but not wanting to push it? They are on the same page. Are you sure you'r really reading the thread?

[Tammy]

Oh, I got my ability but it sure cost me. I'm kind of confused though. I said how much money I had yesterday, so why'd they even bother counter-bidding me? Either they thought that I wouldn't bid all of my money or they just wanted to drain my money.

Oh I did get the exact amount from callforjudgment that he said he sent me.

[Tammy]

Oh and Mehdi did neighborize me last night.

[Tammy]

Deas - Did you have the power to neighborize last night? Who'd you neighborize if so?

Sorry again!

[Tammy]

How did you not know Nero had claimed but knew that Seanald had? And since you knew that he had outed himself as the cop, what makes you think he wouldn't want to tell everyone else, like he did yesterday with his result? And why did you think he would just tell you?

[Tammy]

How did you know he was a cop then?

[Tammy]

So are you confirming you plan to neighborize me (reason being found in 1237 although explained again in later posts)?

The reasoning sounds solid so sure.

So what do we have left before ending the day? Powers for tonight are fairly dealt with except a new advertiser (not sure if needed since money passes over).

Player	Buying	Receiving Money From
Greygnarl	Night-kill	N/A
Tammy	Neighborizer	Phil
Slumber	Bulletproof	Seanald
Stephan	Vote Freezer	Shamrock
Mehdi	Hitman	Pitty
Sala	Accountant	PV
Voided	Vote Nullifier	Peregrine

Sham should be lynched (PV scum is an argument for later, but sham is just a worse slot). Power use wise only ones that have been said are me targetting tammy while nero targets me. The rest of the power uses can just be claimed tomorrow.

So you're sayinn you missed these posts?

[Tammy]

I didn't know I had claimed. I knew that bids and money transfers were being dictated. I probably wasn't thinking properly, but I didn't know. I think I noticed the cop thing in someone's ISO somewhere, about him maybe being a scum cop. I wasn't 100% sure because his ISO only said investigative.

So, let me get this straight, you saw in someone's ISO the idea that Seanald might be a scum cop and you decided to neighborize him based on the possibility that he wouldn't want to tell us his results?

[Tammy]

That sounded an awful lot like the complaint Tammy made a couple times yesterday

[Tammy]

We're hoping that by gaining some control of night actions, we can be better prepared and keep things out of scum's hands as much as is possible.

Mehdi had a neighbor plan that included you being added into the neighborhood.

It's jus that you neighborizing Seanald was a bad plan and wastes your neighborize ability anyway. We are most likely lynching Seanald very soon, if not today. He's rather suspected and would have been possibly lynched day one if not for him having cop. Most people suspect him, and the one person he has cleared isn't really acting like the confirmed town he should be. Basically we can't trust his results.

[Tammy]

Any of you pricks move and I'll execute every motherfucking last one of ya!

[Tammy]

sorry...felt the need.

[Tammy]

Sean's investigate result wasn't ballsy it was stupid. "You're a known godfather? Investigate." "Hey, look, he's innocent."

Sounds like a fake result to me.

[Tammy]

Bleh...I tried to catch up with the rest, but I'm busy packing. I'll be officially declaring my v/la tomorrow, but I'm on vacation for thanksgiving. I'll try to get online if I can, but I'll be back Sunday for sure.


I saw some things about claims going on. I saw my name floated for cop, but I saw dabois say they wanted that, and I think that's a good idea. I'm practically cleared out after getting neighborizer last night. I think someone was supposed to transfer money to me but I don't know how much that will be anyway. Definitely not enough. I saw that someone got the thing that says how much money is in play. I don't know if we're going to do a money claim to see if things add up or anything, so I put my amount of money in the neighborhood in case we do some type of popcorn. If that happens while I'm away, he can claim for me.

If you're assigning things to buy, you might not want to put me down for anything, especially nothing important, as I just don't have that much.

I still dont like seanald investigating the investigation immune and think it looks like an easy way to claim his usage.

I'll try to catch up with this tomorrow before I head out.

Oh and BB and dabois are town anyway, but their even more clear from being right hand mafia due to the way greyice behaved about them day one. If I'm remembering things correctly.

[Tammy]

Everything else I said is still okay; I just got the terms 'accountant' and 'oracle' mixed up; not sure why.

...how...?

I really don't know. I guess they both start with vowels? I have had a horrible start to this game, haven't I?

You're town by way of your predecessor so it's all good.

[Tammy]

Looking back at greyices iso...

Really doubt bb, spd, and N are right hand.

Seanald might be right hand for Post 312 and Post 313 but Post 378 gives me some doubts?

[Tammy]

Btw, I just had an idea. Tammy, can you explain to me what you understand this game's auction mechanic to be to me? (Yes, I know I could just check the rules. But I want the answer from Tammy in particular, and I don't want anyone to answer this before she does.)

You would ask the person who tends to get all mixed up on setup spec wouldn't you?

Okay, we bid and the bids are updated with $1 for each bid given...or maybe the highest amount plus one. So, if three people bid say one bids $25, one does $50, and one does $75, it would be advertised as $53.

I think that's how it works. So, there had to be one other person besides me to bid on neighborizer because it went for $352. I bid $412 dollars on it but got back the difference from $352. Whoever counterbid me got back $350 minus 10%.

I think that's how that works.

[Tammy]

Wait. That's not right.

[Tammy]

Okay, that's not right. Night 0, I bid $90 on the cop. I lost and got back $81. Seanald bid $100 on it but won it for $91. So the last number can't be the amount of people who bid.

[Tammy]

Why would anyone pay more than what something could go for?

GG - I understand how to bid. Who cares if I didn't get the process right.

[Tammy]

I was hoping to finish catching up but I have to leave for the airport in a few hours and need sleep.

I'll see if I can catch up at the airport...if I need to do something please bold it for me or Mehdi can put it in the neighborhood so I won't miss it. Oh yeah, I'll need input on who to neighborize, so if you have any suggestions tell Mehdi and he can relay it to me in the neighborhood. I know that we agreed on continuing with the town read neighboring and he has suggestion or two I think.

I'll be v/la until Sunday for Thanksgiving.

Also, that table doesn't make sense to me for what I'm supposed to do, so Mehdi please tell me what I'm supposed to do if lynch happens any time soon.

[Tammy]

Okay, I got the federal reserve chairman. Someone want to tell me what it does? Or I'll just find it.

[Tammy]

It's not in the abilities glossary

[Tammy]

Never mind I'll just ask magua...don't mind me.

[Tammy]

@Voided: Tammy was meant to buy it, and she did. We're debating whether using it is a good idea or not.

How'd you know she bought it before she said so?

Mehdi announced that I'd won it at the start of day. He knew how much I'd bid on it from the neighborhood.

[Tammy]

Okay caught up. Super happy my early day one scum read on Seanald was correct, and that my leaning scum read on Pitty seems to be correct as well. Pitty's response to the investigation is as good as a claim. Town don't just go, "oh well, can't do anything about a cop claim" ESPECIALLY with how much suspicion was on DV yesterday.

I am still suspicious of DV though, especially with him having neighborized Sean and Sean coming back scum.

Trying to figure out what Seanald's alignment what that means for Guille. It's late though and my energy is tapped from vacation. I'll try to do something tomorrow after work if the thread's still open.

Vote on Pitty in spirit. I'll check in tomorrow on my break and vote if needed.

[Tammy]

I have not voted for days...

CAN I HAMMER???

[Tammy]

Everything's set then? Just double checking. As soon as I get n okay I'm -------[]

[Tammy]

VOTE: pitty

Whooosh

[Tammy]

n - did you get medium? Have you chosen to medium anyone if so? If you did get it, leaving one medium ability open to medium the self-watcher might be a good idea.

Mehdi - it's not a hard and fast site rule that cops can't investigate third parties. If an sk is not investigation immune, and not all of them are, they can be busted by the cop.

So, I was all ready to come in here and discuss how it was possible gulle was town because seanald had to know he'd get lynched and then his results would be called into question and it was very likely that he picked a townie to secure a mislynch. But then guille just rolled over and pulled a Pitty so scratch that. Both Pitty and guile had believable arguments they could have pulled out to try to save themselves and didn't.

I think N and Stefan are for sure town. N by way of Salamance, and Stefan because I don't ever ever see MoI agree to an early bussing of himself on day one when he would probably consider himself most likely the one able to bring his team the win.

I have decently strong townreads on mehdi, dabois and voidedmafia in that order. Any suspicion of any of them is pretty much paranoia based on my end but isn't anything I will entertain at the moment.

I have basically decent town reads of cfj and deasvail. Whatever suspicions I have of cfj are elmo leftovers. Same with deasvail, from his predecessors, but he's playing to his town game...though to be fair I don't know his scum game at all.

I guess leftovers would be Guille, philamon, bb and pere? Of those I want to believe bb is town as his early game and interaction fits his town game more than scum, but his claim makes me a little nervous. Guille well rolled over. The thing I like about philamon is his scum read on dabois; I would kind of imagine him just going with the flow in that. However, and I couldn't mention it before, but in the recently completed American revolution game Phil did not do read lists the way he did here. He gave a list of reads after he was lynched as town but no reads lists while playing. So, I'm wondering about that thing. I guess pere is one of the more less likely in that he argued for Pitty scum, but argued against seanald scum based on us lynchng him to verify results. I think part of my issue with pere is kind of self absorbed as I can't see why he'd have me as null with the need to do further meta research when we've played a few games together and he's seen me as scum and town. I don't think I've been overly active this game and shining brightly like a beacon of innocence though but it still kinda reads off. That and I don't really have a good reason to call him town, and even though I'm usually suspicious of him in the early game, I'm usually veering towards the right way by now.

All up I guess I'd say lynching pere and night killing Phil would be the best choices for determining where to go from here.

[Tammy]

^^^totally should read lynching gulli (not pere)

[Tammy]

Oh, it sure does. I think that's now four times this game. *maybe one day I'll start reading the rules a little more closely...or at all"

And, I thought he was at l-2

VOTE: guille

[Tammy]

If the self-watcher Is night killed and watched himself that night he'd be able to tell you who killed him. Unless, I'm misunderstanding that role too, which is apparently completely possible.

[Tammy]

Although doing that will ensure the self-watcher is not night killed so idk

[Tammy]

*sigh*. Someone should really just force me to sit in a corner and not come up with anything *brillaint* until I read the rules and roles. Never mind.

[Tammy]

UNVOTE:

I don't want to rush this day and there's something I need to look over/think about.

I'm also not as comfortable with phil getting shot as I was yesterday. His insistence on dabois being scum reads as real paranoia to me, and I don't see Phil being the type of scum player who would let himself stand out by consistently going after someone who is being universally read as town.

[Tammy]

Oh and please don't end the day until I say that I'm ready to end it. We have no way of knowing if greygnarl won the night kill and seeing how he died the night he used the night kill, I'm not feeling very confident on my survival right now. We have the wage freeze up so there's no need to rush it. Thanks.

[Tammy]

He wasn't in a desperate situation in Post 1395 though as most of the scum was still alive. I'm just trying to figure out if Phil is one of the type of players to do that.

[Tammy]

I won market watcher n1. As of the end of last night, excluding transferred or invested, and after all of the money actions have taken place, there is $2222 in the game.

As of the end of last night, $2244 in the game.

Whoever made up the day2 list, listed me twice, so I sent half to Voided and have to N/Sala. They should receive the same amounts.

I'd like confirmation from both players that they received the money.

Is there anyway we can determine how much is in mafia's hands from this? And did you get confirmation?

[Tammy]

I get more of a townread off of PV than Phil.

You don't find anything weird going on with PV?

[Tammy]

N, do you know why I asked you that?

[Tammy]

Is that the only reason you can think of that I would ask you about peregrine?

[Tammy]

It was a test of sorts. I feel like if you would have known why I asked you about PV, you would have just said yes. But you didn't, so now I'm trying to figure something out.

N - can you run down real quick how you ended up not getting messenger the night you were supposed to? And if you did medium someone, do you think out be open about that in the thread?

[Tammy]

He wasn't in a desperate situation in Post 1395 though as most of the scum was still alive. I'm just trying to figure out if Phil is one of the type of players to do that.

I actually remember when I was reading through being surprised that Phil didn't make more of an effort to question people's townreads or at least say something about how everyone was finding the bois town. Even if I have a fairly weak scumread on a player that everyone else thinks is town, I would want to make sure people weren't just calling him town for the sake of it or anything like that. I don't feel like I'm explaining this very well, but basically I don't think I as town would express a scumread on someone like the bois without commenting on everyone finding him town. Maybe others would be different, I don't know.

Eh, I'll re-read through him but the impression I got from him in American revolution was that he was a bit of a passive player and it gets him suspicion. He did, however, put up at least a little resistance to getting lunched from what I remember there though. Poe-wise he's not in a very good place though.

[Tammy]

Okay so, There was a reason why I worded the question in Post 2759 the way I did and why I was asking N about peregrine. And I feel like if N would have known why I was asking he'd have given me a simple yes to verify it.

This afternoon I got a message from "N". It came from the mod anonymously, but the sender identified himself as "N". They said they won it from a side bet, which struck me as really odd because N was supposed to win messenger and didn't the night before last but said he didn't win it. The sender said that he mediumed greygnarl and that greygnarl said he actually shot peregrine the night he died, not seanald. I also thought it was a little odd that he didn't include whether or not greygnarl won the night kill that night which I think greygnarl would have told or at least how much was bet so we would know.

This is one of the reasons why I didn't want the day to end because I wanted to figure out if there was a way I could verify N as the sender. I brought up the greygnarl night kill thing hoping that N might acknowledge it in some way if he really did medium him and I knew about it. Then I asked if he thought anything weird was going on with peregrine. And later if he knew why I was asking. If he was the sender, he would have realized why I was asking him about peregrine and should have just said yes or something like that to verify to me that he was the sender but didn't.

Anyway, N, if you really did medium greygnarl and want to keep it secret for some reason, and you really did send me the message, sorry for outing it. But you didn't respond to me in a way that suggests you were the sender.

[Tammy]

Okay N.

So, I'd anyone has any idea why a sender would send a message to me trying to act like N and that greygnarl actually shot peregrine instead of seanald, I'm all ears.

Also, the messenger was times 2 so if anyone else got a message they should out that one too.

[Tammy]

Actually N that was for the accountant not for the messenger that you just gave a reasoning for.

[Tammy]

So, do you feel like N's townier, Tammy?

Honestly, right this second. I'm not sure. I want to say yes. But I'm tired right now and I spent so much energy on black flag today I'll have to look at this tomorrow as I don't want to chance a bleed over. I did run through Sala's iso right after I got the message because of the side bet part and N saying he didn't get messenger, and I didn't notice anything real suspicious.

[Tammy]

So, do you feel like N's townier, Tammy?

Honestly, right this second. I'm not sure. I want to say yes. But I'm tired right now and I spent so much energy on black flag today I'll have to look at this tomorrow as I don't want to chance a bleed over. I did run through Sala's iso right after I got the message because of the side bet part and N saying he didn't get messenger, and I didn't notice anything real suspicious.

[Tammy]

So, do you feel like N's townier, Tammy?

Honestly, right this second. I'm not sure. I want to say yes. But I'm tired right now and I spent so much energy on black flag today I'll have to look at this tomorrow as I don't want to chance a bleed over. I did run through Sala's iso right after I got the message because of the side bet part and N saying he didn't get messenger, and I didn't notice anything real suspicious.

[Tammy]

Have no idea how that tripled

[Tammy]

No, that's fine. I had read you're reasoning before. I was still trying to see if you were the sender or try to figure out what was going on.

[Tammy]

Well, I didn't take it too seriously as it was rather odd, but mostly wanted to see if I could verify if it was from N.

The sender has good grammar and punctuation so it's definitely no kanye .

The sender called me solid town. The only three people I know who use that phrase are phillamon, voidedmafia and dabois, I think Matt. Although that's not a great indicator of the sender.

I don't know if the sender just thought I was stupid and wouldn't think something was up, but my thought is that they hoped to influence the shot tonight. They tried to sound a little paranoid, like there must be something up we don't know about and they were glad they won the "side bid" so they could get the message to me.

My guess for why they sent it to me isn't that I'm pretty stupid when it comes to setups (though it's true I am) but is because they possibly hoped to direct the night kill or something. That really is the only thing that makes sense to me. But I can't imagine why they used peregrine unless they wanted me to urge shooting him instead of philamon. But I can't see how they thought I would believe greygnarl actually tried to shoot peregrine.

If it also helps, they referred to greygnarl in lower case double g's.

I was hoping to be able to quote it in the neighborhood and have mehdi look at it to see if we could figure out who likely wrote it, but I can only paraphrase there too.

[Tammy]

It's very possible voided.

[Tammy]

Maybe they hoped I'd go rogue and finish what greygnarl "started" or something.

I have no idea. It just seems like a really weird way to waste a message.

[Tammy]

VOTE: guille

Shooting Phil and copping pere is fine with me.

[Tammy]

AWESOME!!! We only mislynched twice in this game

I'm still really surprised at how easily mafia rolled over when caught this game. Pitty could have fought that cop guilty some. It may not have worked, but there was enough suspicion on deasvail to attempt to get a mislynch out of it. Likewise, guille could have fought that lynch on him with a decent argument. In the end, Phil might have been saved a day if he would have transferred money to me like he was supposed to as there was the suggestion on changing the kill target to PV, but he probably would have just been lynched the next day anyway.

So, I'm guessing the purpose of the message was to try to get a change to PV? And was sent to me because I *had* the night kill. I spent too much time trying to figure out *who* sent it to me to nab the last mafia member.

I'm also surprised that no one asked who I had neighborized. Mehdi, voided and dabois it was fun!

This was a fun game and an interesting set up! I had a good time playing with you all. Thanks magua for running it.

[Tammy]

Oh I forgot about you guys watching/tracking that. They still could have argued the results though. :p

[Tammy]

N - I said you were town just by way of Salamance, but I thought the manner of your mistakes when replacing in sounded really town on its own. I just really didn't have to think about you for the most part because of Sala. (I only got minorly paranoid because of the message but that was for a silly second.)