Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[MagnaofIllusion]

So we have 7 pages overnight … let’s see what the game brings us.

So BBMolla is trolling. Which he does as scum and Town. So in and of itself not useful at all regarding his alignment. I’ll certainly support his lynch the instant I think he’s cruising on playing Troll as opposed to helping find scum. Which he is already rapidly approaching.

I see a number of different opinions on what powers should be claiming (and some claims already). Investigation Immunity should absolutely be claimed ASAP. I’m really not going to support complicated Day-Plans to direct how things happen regarding Night abilities. The more complex the plan the more likely it is that Scum will be able to nullify any advantages given by the plan with their superior knowledge – call this the “Mordor effect” if you will.

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Early Scum Reads

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Mehdi

- I very much dislike the “Well we know there isn’t a Miller how does that affect votes” (which is not confirmed at all, BTW). It reads as someone testing the waters to see how support for a “BB lynch” will be supported.

GreyGn

– Post 31 is the classic “Scum asking the Mod information they know will not be answered to look Town” move.

Sean

– Post 73 where he nicely jumps on Tammy (developing into the early wagon) for self-meta. Self-meta, while useless, isn’t a Scum-tell.

Voided

– Post 82 entrance post has all sorts of things wrong with it … agreeing with a Bad Point made by Gentlemen, lots of “gee whiz mechanics” statements which have no alignment relevance and coattailing on Gentlemen.

Elmo

– Post 156. I don’t think I need any more explanation.

Guile

– His Town reads in Post 163 are either early scum reads or solidly Null for me. Signal that he's playing to a different Wincon than I am.

Given what Slumber put together on Page 5 regarding Sean is where I am starting …

VOTE: Sean

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I think the most important thing for all of us to agree upon is that negative-utility items like Investigation Immunity, Extra Vote, Governor and such need to be claimed publicly and used as early of as possible, once the risk and threat of them are gone we're fine to go

whereas if scum win them and we don't know they have control of it lylo could be brought up a day

and cop could be rendered less effective.

Please support why you think the bolded is true.

Neither the Governor (since it cannot self-target) or the DoubleVote (is rendered useless with less than 10 players alive) can accelerate LYLO.

Voided's claimage and action of bidding $15 on the night-kill alongside with his reasoning behind it is incredibly town-motivated and genuine.

I stopped reading your Town reasoning on Voided at this. Frankly that’s so easy for scum to fake “Oh, I spent $15 on Nightkill” that the fact that you lead your Townread with that makes me suspect highly it is fabricated.



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At GreyIce re Post 91 – yes. Mordor.

Scum control roleblocker means NK doesn't go off unless they want it to?

NK doesn't go off and RB is claimed at least we can sort things out with hangings.

Um, no … there is way too many missing elements to this ‘plan’ and you should know that. Are you scum Grey?

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Fake claiming miller is retarded.

So is claiming the name of your Scum QT directly in thread for Teehees which leads to you getting Copped Guilty but it never stopped you before …

[MagnaofIllusion]

No. Controlling the auctions was pretty key to the town's play last game (even if they didn't win, it was due to an investigation immune role that basically did nothing for 6 days). In fact it was really only when the town lost control of the auctions and started having everyone going off and doing their own thing and yelling at each other that they lost.

I’ll have to read up on that game then. Because I’ve usually seen disastrous effects from mass coordination attempts (again, Andy’s Mordor game was the prime example I point to).

1) Someone has a doctor. If we know the NK is in the hands of town (or someone has claimed and claimed their target, which is good enough) then the doctor doesn't have to use any shots. Remember, doctor is 2-shot. The later in the game the doctor uses that power, the better it is - and the doctor need only use it when we've lost an NK.

The problem becomes “What if the Doc is in scum’s hands”. Let’s look at the what happens when Player X claims “I’ve got the Nightkill and I’m targeting Player Y at Night”. I’m assuming for sake of argument that that the Roleblocker (Player Z) has already claimed per your scenario.

Night roles around and Player Y isn’t dead. Player X says he shot him. Player Z claims not to have Roleblocked him. No-one claims to have the Doc.

What course of action do you take?

Of course this is a hypothetical scenario but I’d like to get a handle on how you think things should progress.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, your thoughts on Tammy?

I see nothing out of the ordinary from Tammy. She overposts as Town. She's reactive and melodramatic as Town. She if anything is more reserved as scum.

What is your read on the PartyBois?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Coming from my quicktopic

and have 7 pages to read. Arrgh!!!

Really?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Peregrine

- Please link me to two completed scum games (preferably in Themes).

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Oh yeah. I can't really place Sean anywhere significant. He's slightly town now for me.

Please explain exactly what you mean by “I can’t really place Sean anywhere significant”.

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That isnt a scumslip guys. You can request QTs.

Why are you answering for StefanB?

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Moi: Curious reaction. Comment?

What is curious about it? You explicitly said you were ‘coming from your QT’. It’s something that either looks like a bad attempt to fish for reactions “hurr durr guys I’m totally coming from my scum QT and posting it in thread” or a soft admission that you won the Neighborizor ability. Neither of which is a great thing to be dropping in thread.

So what was your purpose in posting that particular phrase? And why is my reaction curious while someone directly calling it a scum-slip (sans voting) is not?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Peregrine

– I’ll look at those in a bit. Thanks.

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@Sala

– I asked you a question. Why are you dodging it. To refresh your memory …

What is your read on the PartyBois?

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You on the other hand are a very analitical player. You don't miss thinks like that a lot of players could have QT in this game. You would take that option I think. No way MoI doesn't use or doesn't try to use any information he has to his fullest benefit.

And that was never meaned as anythink other than a trap for mafia. I thought town would knew what Sal posted imidiatly. (Neighborizer as townpower is somethink that I don't even like that much)

This makes me scratch my head. Why exactly should I expect ‘lots of players’ outside of scum and the Neighborizor ability (which I don’t think even can have been used at this point) to have QTs? If Grey / Gentlemen are to be believed the last game was effectively Vanilla. Not a lot of other reasons outside of the two groups I mentioned to have a QT. I’m curious why you thought that at all.

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Trying to RVS at this point?

You're better than this, Elmo.

Why are you assuming a vote for the leading wagon is RVS and playfully slapping Elmo on the wrist Voided?

What bad point?

And move on, will ya? I have more posts than that at Page 7.

That Governor can move up LYLO a Day. And why should I disregard a post I find scummy simply because you have made other posts again?

But his townread isn't based on just that I did that?

It’s the classic “Don’t bury the lead” journalism standard – you put your strongest point at the very front of the story. In this case he chose to highlight as the strongest reason you are Town a point that is not even remotely alignment indicative.

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If I shoot MoI I don't get to see his reaction when he's wrong.

Frankly I’m just waiting for you to put an end to the charade.

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I dislike a lot of MoI's reads but I find them very standard what I know from him, he tends to gravitate towards suspecting weakerish players early in the game as town and his reads list matches that exact thing, not backing a day-vig on him at all, want to see him post a lot more and think he should be a lot easier to read then.

I’d like you to lay out who are said ‘weaker players’ so I can assess the viability of this as a Town-based statement.

MoI, we ended up spending quite a bit of time discussing extra vote / governor actually and we worked out that extra vote probably cannot bring up lylo unless there's an incredibly high number of mafia however governor can regardless of how many mafia there is. Governor being unable to self-govern is one thing but if scum were to govern a partner that was getting run up in lylo then we'd have to hunt elsewhere and thus it massively increases the chances that we'd lose at the point, it's why we decided it's better if we buy it and burn it early on to not to have to worry about it. Also re; Town-

Read on Voided I don't think its' easy for someone to come in and blatantly lie about what they bid on right-of-the-bat, it comes across as super genuine.

Firstly – no … you are wrong. Scum governing a partner does nothing to move up LYLO. The Governor ability prevents a SINGLE player from not being lynched in a Day. The only way it could accelerate LYLO is if multiple scum possessed the Govern ability and cross-used it. And even then it would only accelerate it if every scum could be covered. Massively increasing the chances I think is a gross overstatement (especially since someone scummy being Governed means we have working connections to the rest of his team) and still does not make the statement in question correct.

If you specifically discussed the "Extra Vote Can't" with your partner why was it posted in thread.

In regards to the bolded – I disagree completely. Then again I think it is well known I find Town-tells to be pretty ludicrous most of the time so I hardly find this conflict in our opinions unusual.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI

I'm not sure why you are asking me to address how you hypothetically would play again. I've already stated that you derp-play is not alignment indicative as you do it regardless of your alignment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What

You're ignoring the question.

If I was a miller dayvig how would my play be different, because according to you my play here is simply trolling and I'm curious how you think I'd play if I truly was a miller dayvig.

I'd ask you to stop being dense but it's part of your act so consider it not asked.

You have demonstrated you will troll as any alignment regardless of Role - Star Wars / MLP: Redemption / Insert pretty much any other game we have in common / Insert pretty much any other game I have read of yours.

The only exception that comes to mind was the Scummies and there you had 3 other players depending on you to blunt your natural tendencies.

You have frankly zero credibility with me regarding anything you claim in game. So until you post whatever "Bum Shoot" nomenclature you choose to use and Magua actually kills said player your antics are filed under "Derping to earn Towncred" which is, again, not alignment relevant.

[MagnaofIllusion]

As far as I know, every player was offered a QT because mechanics. (only between them and the mod)

Then clearly you don't know as much as you think. Not a single PM (my role PM or my back and forths with Magua on my bids Night 0) from Magua has it been explicitly offered to me by him for him to set-up a QT for me.

@Magua - Please confirm or deny that all Town players were offered a QT of your creation.