Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[sword_of_omens]

hey all!!!
back from V/LA and glad to see this one up and running...
gonna read up this morning and get to posting today...9 pages shouldn't be too bad....

[sword_of_omens]

post incoming....

[sword_of_omens]

Alrighty..
All caught up…addressing the points directed to me first:


@Pjovek – Holy shit you’re ADD…
Let’s lynch the “lurkers” on Day1…I seriously get tired of hearing this shit…how can I be a lurker when the game had just started?
I’m V/LA weekends, with phone access only if I can get to a coffee shop..and considering that the game just started over the weekend, you’re vote (and reasoning) behind it is pretty ridiculous…

Because sword was a great day1 lynch (and still is)
In the meantime he has dodged replacement forcing with promises of more lurking, so yeah. A good lynch indeed

And how do you figure this shit? What kind of info would you hope to glean on a quicklynch of someone who hasn’t even had a chance to post in the game? I didn’t say “prod-dodge”, I said I would be reading up and posting today, which makes your “promises of more lurking” pure fabricated BS …

Emphasis on "later

Again, your putting words where there aren’t any…I never once said “later”..i said I was catching up and going to post TODAY…this is a blatant misrep and you know it….

And people don't policy-lynch nearly enough, actually

This also bugs me…why are you asking to PL someone you’ve never even played with before for a stupid ass reason instead of voting for your number one scum pick? Which was who, btw? With all of your back and forth and double-talk, I really don’t see you having one…Or is it me? I’m your number one scum pick? For lurking....on Day1….because the game started on a weekend…really? Nicely done..Kudos to you…
See, this almost made sense:

Maybe it makes no difference in regard to Eggplant himself, but it is a glorious game of chicken in regard to the people on the wagon itself.
It is sad you flaked so early.

It appears that you do want wagon analysis, however, you abandon ship altogether and then go for what? A PL on someone who you think is easy meat cause he’s not here?


So let me get this right:
You start out with “Hey everybody! Let’s claim Flavor! Yaaay!” in a game where you know that we need to protect a certain role.
You then follow up with EggPlant isn’t scum, yes he is, no he isn’t...in fact, most of your posts are pretty nonsensical double-talk:

tl;dr: atm I might be WIFOMing myself into thinking a scumtell is not a scumtell because scum wouldn't tell scumtells.

Wtf is this shit?
You then put Eggplant at L-1 because (oh I get it now..he has 1 post…he’s LURKING) and when that doesn’t fly you go after the other guy that’s LURKING… great tactic…

VOTE: Pjovek

*******



Now that that is done, (took up more space/time than I expected) I’ll continue on to the rest of the game…

Real quickly (I’ll go into more detail if anybody wants me too):

Enomis

– leaning town…although I don’t necessarily agree with the Eggplant slip/is scum then Matt scum..i did like the fact that he called out MrBungles to post more…also like how he pursued Zach..

Fferyll

– I know she likes to play cautiously, but deliberately as town… not sure why she states that Bungle should be in the prob-town pile(see my notes on Bungle)..because he’s paranoid of her for no apparent reason? Also, she did miscount the Eggplant wagon stating it was at L-2 when it was at L-1..could be honest mistake, could be scum trying to get a quick hammer..null, leaning scum on her..

Implosion

– not a whole lot to go on here as he really hasn’t done much except park his vote on Zach..null..

Katsuki

– not much (although that's norm from what i remember) and is a big fat null..

MattP

– I have Matt as null also…

MrBungle

–I agree with Enomis..the town Bungle I played with was much more aggressive…here he’s very quiet and gives no reason whatsoever for his Fferyl vote, or his flip/flop..why are you voting Fferyll again? I also would like to see more from Bungle

OverSoul

– I’m waiting for more input from OS..but I have him as town for now ,well, cause he’s OS

Pjovek

– already gone over this in depth…scum….

Syryana

– I’m liking for town…although he has some fluff, he is scumhunting…

Tammy

– Is also null..although I have her on my watch list, as her scum game is pretty good and I’d hate to get caught with my pants down…

Tierce

– Scares me as always, cause I can never read her…I believe that the secrets of the Universe will be mine once i can though…

Eggplant

– intro post was odd to say the least…not really sure if his MattP thing is a scum slip, as his whole post just seems awkward..now would be a good time for him to get in here and talk…as waiting is not making him look good..

Zach

– I’m liking Zach for town as well..especially liked his #182 in response to Syryana

Zdenek

– I like him for town…he starts out no-nonsense and tries to keep the game focused..this is the townZd I’ve played with..
i also strongly agree with his #5 and #8…




TLDR:
Town ---> Scum
Zdenek
Zach
Enomis
Syryana
Oversoul
MattP
Tammy
Tierce
Katsuki
Implosion
Eggplant
MrBungle
Fferyll
Pjo

[sword_of_omens]

Sword_of_Omens, how would you say you tend to read Tierce? (as town, as scum or are your reads just wrong) Can you point me to some games that you were in together.

It’s just hard for me to read her period…I can never seem to tell when she scum or town…although there might be a little bit of intimidation factor involved…I remember her berating me for when I got quick-lynched after I replaced into her slot in Chrono Trigger..(and while it is off point, it’s probably a funny read if you’re bored)

As far as games played together:

Well most recently was Dresden Files (it was actually a game with Sixty) but we were both town. I investigated Sixty onN1 because of the fact that Tierce is unreadable for me..and I’m pretty sure I stated this somewhere in the thread.

Going back a ways…Paranoia Mafia (me town/Tierce scum) I think was the closest to having a correct read on her, yet she still had me second guessing myself…


Meanwhile…

I've never been accused of have a pretty good scum game before so <3.

Considering you came pretty damn close to winning Abarat for your team, even after they all fell apart so early in the game i'd beg to differ...


@Implosion / Tierce - I still don’t get how you think Pjo is not a good lynch…his attack on me was scummy as shit…he was making shit up by adding words to my posts.. he hasn’t done anything at all except spam the thread up with nonsense talk..not to mention his “let’s all claim game/universe” idea…


@Bungles – when you do happen to come back,and in case you missed it, I’d like you to please explain your flip/flop on fferry for no apparent reasoning whatsoever. I’d also love to hear input from you because I remember you being a pretty aggressive town player...

[sword_of_omens]

sorry guys...works been crazy...i'll be posting today...

[sword_of_omens]

Real quickly…

Going through the Matt/Tierce back and forth , I really don’t think Matt is scum…
He always seems like a wild card to me…I expect his fake-claims, so that really doesn’t seem to sway me one way or another…
His frustration at Tierce for calling him scum does seems genuine also…

I really don’t know what to think of Antagon’s claim as it does seem a bit OP to me as well … I will say that I do recall Abarat had a similar role that self -commuted themselves and a target for the night, so it could be possible…


Now that Bungles is gone, I can’t get my answer from him on why he was flip/flopping on Ffery, but:

post_id=5031846 time=1371208769 user_id=10128 post_num=551]we can chase after sword_of_omens next. pjo was an easy target at that time and he jumped on it hard

Yes, I jumped on him..did you even read what Pjo posted? It was ridiculous..He attacked me and ADDED words to my posts to try and paint me as scum lurking on D1 by emphasizing on the words he added...how is that not scummy as hell?
HP, do you see Pjo as town then? Also what are your reads on Ffery?

[sword_of_omens]

I will say that I do recall Abarat had a similar role that self -commuted themselves and a target for the night, so it could be possible…

Did scum have a way to counter it?

Hard to say…
Main thing, I guess, was that the commuter ended up being non-consecutive…
And the game also had an IC which probably prioritized the commuter’s actions..
Scum had a 1 shot Daykill that was unblockable , but also suicided immediately after the kill..
I think scum also had an Eye ability that allowed them to learn the role of a player each night,
but no real watcher or tracker...

He did this?
I've always wanted to just straight up lie to the town as a scum by altering their posts but I've never actually seen it done

I had stated that I had just come back from V/LA and was going to catch up and post

that day

:

hey all!!!
back from V/LA and glad to see this one up and running...
gonna read up this morning and

get to posting today

...9 pages shouldn't be too bad....

He then took that post and twisted it into :

In the meantime he has dodged replacement forcing with promises of more lurking

When he posted to let us know he'd actually play the game later.

Emphasis on "later"

No, it is "I am lurking, but I'll read the thread eventually and maybe one day I'll even post"

He was saying that I was setting myself with promises to lurk, when in fact I said that I just got back from v/la and was going to post that day (which I did), and then proceeded to try and get a PL on me…


I am also waiting on hp[leaves] to answer my question to him:

HP, do you see Pjo as town then? Also what are your reads on Ffery?

[sword_of_omens]

@soo: thats just sarcastic comment on pjovek's it is funny how you harped on it so much. Because so many people said they will post something useful and end up not posting anything. Thus, he tried to be sarcastic and put you in that group of people

One post, I could understand, maybe…but he kept on going trying to build it into something it wasn’t, and tried to justify it as a PL…
I don’t see that as just being sarcastic…

Anyway with the timer dropping down and time running out, I can see my vote is going nowhere….

UNVOTE:

Looking at viable options:

Antagon- Egg’s intro was odd..and Antagon’s claim seems convoluted, yet believeable…normally I’d prefer to wait on lynching him…
I will say that I didn’t care for his last post though:

Now that pjovek/Amrun made logical, valid points, I'm left with only one scumread.
VOTE: hp

What logical posts? Amrun has only 2 posts that could be considered content…#758 and #786, and I don’t see how any of those would be considered insightfully logical and valid …Can you please tell me where exactly you changed your mind on Pjo/Amrun?


HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

I’d prefer to lynch hp[leaves], as I am willing to wait on Antagon on the off-chance that he’s town (although I’d still like him to answer my question)

VOTE: hp[leaves]

[sword_of_omens]

regarding what?

[sword_of_omens]

ahhh...ok...i see what you're saying...
he stated that MrBungles was his only scum read prior to his hp vote...
So his reasoning is fake...

ok, i feel much better about lynching Antagon today..

[sword_of_omens]

sorry guys, work has been hell today...
should have a post up shortly...

[sword_of_omens]

SoO

Early-ish in the game he had Pjovik and me as his strongest scum reads as indicated in 255. He had a question for mrbungles about his vote on me, and after hp replaced him, SoO voted for hp. His last post of day 2 indicated he was happy with the Antagon lynch because Antagon's reasoning on hp was fake, though he didn't change his vote to Antagon in 806.

Rereading his iso (which doesn't take long - 10 posts), it looks pretty bad. No follow-up on or with me aside from that one question to mrbungles, then votes not me but bungle's replacement at a point where it was the most viable alternative wagon to Antagon.

This was his reasoning for the hp vote:

HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

Yes, Pjo and you were my top picks at the start of the day yesterday…I especially didn’t like the way you and Bungles interacted..and if you look on that same reads list you would notice that Bungles’ name was directly above yours..i explained how this did not seem like his town game at all… considering I just came from one with him and that you were in that same game, you should have noticed the difference too… His one liner posts were not normal for him… Once he was replaced by hp, I did try and question him as I wanted to try and get a read on his slot and he seemed to be evading the question…
And yes, I did vote for him yesterday…but I don’t see how you think it came out of nowhere...the deadline was approaching and I couldn’t get anyone to vote Pjo with me…The only 2 wagons that were viable at the time were Antagon’s and hp’s… i had reservations about Antagon, as I normally like to play it safe, so preferrably did not want to vote him…and hp was a good vote..his pred’s actions weren’t his normal town, and hp's posts weren't much beyond trying to line up lynches…when he did answer my question, he said that Pjo was town but he still hadn’t read you, which also seemed a bit convenient… not to mention that his flip would also give me better insight on you..if he did flip scum, then I would bet even money that you were his buddy…


***



Moving forward, I wanted to put my two cents in:
This morning does show that something funky went down…
from my experience, “hidden” voters are most likely scum...but considering Antagon’s flip, it would mean that either:
1. Town member used a “hidden vote” to lynch a scum read of theirs. Didn’t want to mention it in thread in case they were wrong and ended up lynching a town PR. Antagon had enough controversy on him for this scenario to have happened, however, I think it is highly unlikely, as I’m pretty sure town would have come forward to claim already…
2. A scum member used a “hidden vote” to lynch their teammate . This could make sense...hp and Antagon were the leading wagons...Antagon shows to have flipped “Abyss Vanilla” so he could have been the better choice to get rid of for their team if they knew that one or the other was getting lynched…this would most likely make hp certain scum though, as there really would have been no reason for scum to “secretly” get rid of one of their own, especially if the competing wagon was town.
3. A second scum team used a “hidden vote” to save a team mate from getting lynched, and/or to lynch a possible town PR…while this could also be the case, I find it highly unlikely…yes there were 2 kills, but in a small game like this, if we have 2 teams killing every night then that would make this game extremely scum-sided, I would think…

Scenario #2 makes the most sense...again, town would most likely come forward, especially since Antagon flipped scum..and i really do not see 2 scum teams in this small of a game...

Vote: hp[leaves]

[sword_of_omens]

You'd lose that bet. I am obviously not doing a very good job of articulating why the timing of mrbungle's vote felt townish to me, but I originally played mafia on sites where sometimes players don't post long cases prior to voting, especially early day 1. There is an intimidation factor involved and also a "hmm...what did HE see?" factor for non-involved players. Two players gave me that vibe during a fairly close interval in the thread - MattP and mrbungles. I did not read it as scummy on either of their parts at the time. And per my usual, I didn't bite.

It was interesting that my lack of concern about a lack of case was cause for consternation. But, I figured a case would show up eventually or the votes would go away.

Anyway, I'm still a little concerned about you. It sounds to me like you, too, are lining up lynches here.

I understand what you are saying, but you are missing my point here...you and i had just both come from a game where we played with town Bungles. he was very active and verbal in that game and had a lot of opinions and was not affraid to voice them...so why then with him being so close-mouthed and mysterious this game, would you see him as town? Yes i get that that you could see some people don't post cases prior to voting, etc..but you and i both have first hand, recent knowledge that town Bungles wasn't like that at all...

[sword_of_omens]

sorry all... on my phone, but work emergency had me run out to a customers today...
just heading back now... Will read and do a full update tomorrow..

[sword_of_omens]

Sorry about yesterday, I left work early yesterday for private screening of the Russell Crowe movie “Noah”…
It was strange to say the least...bible thumpers will most likely have a problem with it…


Anyway,.i was really expecting a scum flip from hp, and that it would bullet proof my scum read of Ffery, but now I really don’t know..I went back and looked at ffery again, and now I’m thinking she’s most likely town...factoring into that is Matt’s kill…he claimed VT already…so why would scum kill a VT when there are lots of other unclaimed players out there? Ferry would not have benefitted from this, seeing as Matt only added her on his list as a “possible” scum because he saw her as “town”, and not “surefire town”…she would have no reason to be worried about Matt…same goes for OS, he was on the list for the same reason as ffery..i really don’t see why either of them would kill a claimed VT when there should be other priorities out there..and with hp gone, this narrows his list down to really only two people:
Me and Implosion…as far as Matt’s NK goes, this makes the most sense to me… and seeing as how people are saying that they don’t have a read on me or implosion, this might be the best avenue to explore...

Meanwhile...the Katsuki wagon … I don’t think he is scum..he has been chasing Matt as scum all game, and yesterday Matt stated that he took him off of his scum list...why then would he kill a claimed VT over possible PR’s out there, especially when he just gave him a town read?
It doesn’t make sense..

Vote: Implosion

I know that there’s not a lot of daylight left for today (approx 15 hrs if I did the math right?) but I don’t think Kats is the way to go today…and I think this has the best chance of hitting scum…


i should have time today to be able to answer anything directed at me...

PEDIT: Zd...ninja

[sword_of_omens]

@MOD -

going to be V/LA for the weekend in about an hour or two...
due to the deadline, i plan on stopping off at a coffee shop tonight to address anything from my phone..

[sword_of_omens]

hey all, i am back from V/LA

saw that we are claiming....


I am Kirby (from the Kirby Series)

I have an “Inhale” ability which allows me a chance to get other abilities at night.
The abilities, once gained are all 1 shots. I do not have to use them right away, but I can only have 1 at a time, so I have to drop or use the one that I get before I can try for another. Also, once I get an ability, I can no longer try for it again, regardless of whether I used it, or dropped it.

Things I can try for are:

Owtch - stops a target from killing me
Psyduck - grants a yes/no on whether or not target is aligned with Town
Magic Urn - protects a target against a kill.
Mr I - Allows to see who (if anyone) visits my target


N1 I tried for psyduck and failed…
N2 I tried again for psyduck and failed
N3 I tried for Magic Urn



will be fully catching up and posting my thoughts shortly..

[sword_of_omens]

Disclaimer: Splitting this post up into two as it is hella long…and took much longer than expected…


Ok..daylight is running out today, so I’ll touch briefly on everyone…
If you would like me to go into more detail on anything, I can…

First addressing this (bolded is mine):

If i am lynched then just make sure s_o_o still responds to 1179

s_o_o ISO:

Eggplant – intro post was odd to say the least…not really sure if his MattP thing is a scum slip, as his whole post just seems awkward..now would be a good time for him to get in here and talk…as waiting is not making him look good..

These are his first set of catchup reads. His read on eggplant is a strange combination of waffling and prodding him to post more. The amount of language in that sentence ("odd," "not really sure," "awkward") that waffles while vaguely painting a scumread on him feels like scum->scum.

Eggplant already had a wagon going on him based on his single post. I had commented on it that I thought it was strange as he came in all matter-of-fact and stating that silly RVS’s will be met with a quick-lynch and demanded votes with reasons from everyone, and then abruptly left the thread…I couldn’t tell if he was serious or not, and wanted input from him…

Going through the Matt/Tierce back and forth , I really don’t think Matt is scum…
He always seems like a wild card to me…

I expect his fake-claims

, so that really doesn’t seem to sway me one way or another…
His frustration at Tierce for calling him scum does seems genuine also…

I really don’t know what to think of Antagon’s claim as it does seem a bit OP to me as well … I will say that I do recall Abarat had a similar role that self -commuted themselves and a target for the night, so it could be possible…

Bolded is a POSSIBLE explanation for the matt kill if s_o_o is scum - he may have thought matt was fakeclaiming. Anyway, the important thing here is that, once again, when talking about the Antagon slot, sword just continuously waffles. He doesn't know what to think, "it could be possible," etc. It's not just the fact that he says he doesn't know, it's the way he says it.

Matt fake-claims in pretty much every game I’ve played with him in…I’m also pretty sure it’s common knowledge… so yes, it could have been a reason he was killed…although I had nothing to do with his death…As far as the Antagon waffling..not sure what implosion means by “the way I said it”. Antagon’s claim seemed overpowered, however, I had played a recent game with a similar role in it, so I was unsure…

Antagon- Egg’s intro was odd..and Antagon’s claim seems convoluted, yet believeable…normally I’d prefer to wait on lynching him…
I will say that I didn’t care for his last post though:

I don't need to explain this at this point. Four posts later, in response to Katsuki, he says he feels better about the antagon lynch, and keeps his vote on hp. Keeping his vote on hp isn't really a scumtell in that i can see him doing it as town, but it also fits very well if he's scum.

What I meant was that Katsuki had eased my reservations a bit in regards to having to lynch Antagon if it came down to it.. i still preferred hp over Antagon …I usually prefer to play it safe, especially on D1..I didn’t want to lynch Antagon on the chance that he was what he claimed..But should it come down to Antagon or a no lynch, I wouldn’t have felt as bad hammering him if I had to…

Anyway,.i was really expecting a scum flip from hp, and that it would bullet proof my scum read of Ffery, but now I really don’t know..I went back and looked at ffery again, and now I’m thinking she’s most likely town...factoring into that is Matt’s kill…he claimed VT already…so why would scum kill a VT when there are lots of other unclaimed players out there? Ferry would not have benefitted from this, seeing as Matt only added her on his list as a “possible” scum because he saw her as “town”, and not “surefire town”…she would have no reason to be worried about Matt…same goes for OS, he was on the list for the same reason as ffery..i really don’t see why either of them would kill a claimed VT when there should be other priorities out there..and with hp gone, this narrows his list down to really only two people:
Me and Implosion…as far as Matt’s NK goes, this makes the most sense to me… and seeing as how people are saying that they don’t have a read on me or implosion, this might be the best avenue to explore...

This reasoning about matt's list is a bit... well, not true. I think. First of all i don't think scum would have killed matt because of the list if there were only one scum on the list. Second of all I don't think the scary part of a list like for scum is that there's scum on the list, it's that there's town that they'd like to ML off the list.

So yeah. To sum up, he makes sense as scum with antagon.

Unless I read wrong, implosion also wanted to lynch off of Matt’s list for reasons that scum were on it, yet he says scum would have killed Matt to mislynch off of instead:

I disagree that it's unproductive to continue analysis of his list, seeing as I believe that it is likely the reason he was NK'd. I shall therefore continue such speculation unabated.

[sword_of_omens]

PART 2


Ffery – I originally did not like her town read she gave to Bungle for flip-flopping on her which I already explained…hp’s flip made me question my read on her and when I went back and reread her I did notice that the miscount on the Egg Wagon (that I had originally questioned) had to have been an honest miscount..while that in itself is not alignment indicative, it still gave me a better feeling about her…MattP’s kill also helped sway me towards town Ffery, mainly because he had just got done telling her she wasn’t really a scum read of his, she would have had no real reason to kill him now that he wouldn’t be pressuring her anymore…although with implosion flipping town, I think Matt’s kill had to have been for WIFOM…Ffery did admit to thinking that Amrun (as Pjo) had copped her based on the “lil dash” flavor of Pjo’s posts and for that reason put Pjo/Amrun into the town pile…
If Ferry was scum, and knew that Amrun was town, then I would think that Pjo/Amrun would’ve been a priority target for her..If Ferry is scum, then Amrun would have to be scum as well.


Oversoul – I have OS as town…I actually thought he soft-claimed PR here:

I took things pretty personally before and saw shadows in the dark (if this game is still going on and certain events occur) I'll explain.

His #724 (believe it or not) made me feel better about him as I see him do this repeatedly as town:

Gg no re if you think I'm scum

Also, his interaction with Tierce looks like he is genuinely trying to figure her out…

Amrun – I’d actually like to revist the Pjo/Amrun slot…I really did not like the way Pjo started the game…at all…his attack on me was horribly scummy…also, at the time I thought his Universe mass claim was bad…even with Amrun’s claim now as a flavor cop (I don’t doubt her role), although I do doubt her alignment…I have been burned multiple times by scum cops, claiming to be town…I admit, I had put her on the back-burner once she and Tierce got into it…I did not have a definitive read on Tierce, so the interaction between the two was welcome for me..it did not read to me as scum buddies trying to fake an argument in thread .. I was hoping more would come from it…also, depending on the results that Amrun claims, we could lynch her to see if she is telling the truth…if she is telling the truth , then we have a list of confirmed town..if he isn’t then we are down 1 scum. Thoughts on this?

And shit…out of time..

Others:

Katsuki – I had a town read on Kats mainly based on the MattP kill..but that theory went all to hell when hp flipped town…so I’ll have to reread..

Syryana – Syryana is in my town pile…I did like his early game and when he went after ffery

Tammy – I wanted to re-read Tammy again but I’ve run out of time…her interactions with everyone did look pretty genuine..
I did notice here that she keeps saying “if you knew me, you’d know I’m town” ..in the Abarat game when she was scum, she shied away from statements like that…so there is that…although not sure of what I think about her claim with the “following Fia” flavor, and saying that its not indicative of whether or not Fia is in the game, especially after Zdenek had just claimed Fia…

Zdenek – Has been the strongest town in the game..his game is pretty straight forward..no fluff…just hard work…


I’ll pop in from my phone before deadline and place a vote…

[sword_of_omens]

Katsuki – I had a town read on Kats mainly based on the MattP kill..but that theory went all to hell when hp flipped town…so I’ll have to reread..

This is in the wrong order.

It doesn't bother anyone else that SoO got the order wrong here?

He's saying that he had town read on Katsuki because of the MattP kill, but that happened after hp flipped town.

i meant when implosion flipped town..I was in a rush at the end there and was trying to leave work...

[sword_of_omens]

I even mentioned it in my 1168

[sword_of_omens]

wait till now to claim what?
Its hard for me to sign on after work hours as my house has no signal..
and posting from a phone sucks...
I have to go to a coffee shop...
I said I thought you were town based on matts kill...
I thought for sure implosion was scum because of it..
Matt had just taken you off his scum list so you wouldn't have had a reason to kill him..
implosion seemed to be the only one who did...
but since he flipped town, I can't see why anyone would kill him excerpt for the wifom...

[sword_of_omens]

stupid phone...

I also said I had to re read you for it...I didn't say it made you ins ta scum...
like I said Iwas running late so the last few people on my list didn't get as much time as I wanted

[sword_of_omens]

ugh... we only have a few hours left...
im fairly certain OS town and
id prefer not to lynch him...
also If it is in fact 4/11 it might be best to no lynch today
that way we can have the best odds going in to tomorrow...

I'll try and get back on before deadline if I can...

[sword_of_omens]

guys, please unvote...
if today is mylo then all it takes is one town on town vote and scum can try and quick-lynch...

[sword_of_omens]

POE, largely. You, Amrun, fery are town. Only one of {Katsuki, Oversoul} is scum. I also didn't like his "guys, you should unvote and stuff". Feels like he's reaching for towncred (and he's not actually doing anything else).

i had other games that i was working on yesterday when i saw the votes...considering this could be mylo i asked that they unvote...as far as "not doing anything else" , at the time i posted I still hadn’t re-read the people that I had needed to, which is what I ‘v been trying to do today...


Oversoul -
I still think Oversoul is town..

And yet I was until he claimed.
And yet I realized the implications of the wording of his role before you or Katsuki.
And yet I unvoted at that time.
And yet you can't read.

Or at least don't like to.

Enomis is exactly right. Oversoul's unvote makes absolutely no sense in this context.

Here was his reasoning for that:

Thought process about the unvote was... I need to think about this!
I had similar thoughts to Zach about the claim being too strong for it to be scum. Then I had thoughts about the wording not making sense and it being a fakeclaim. Then I noticed something else that Antagon posted that made go back to thinking the claim might be town

Unless i’m reading this wrong somehow, his unvote makes sense to me...he originally looked at it as too powerful to be scum, then thought it might be considered a fake claim....
then unvoted when he noticed the wording of Antagon possibly being the protector of Enomis’ role..he didn’t unvote until after Antagon stated the following:

But in a game where the death of one role makes it Night for the rest of the game...

He did mention (#626) that it was still probably best to lynch Antagon as there would probably be no real way to get info from his role...and then he also mentioned that he was still unsure about Antagon...
I could understand this, as i had reservations too...
Also, like i said, i’ve noticed that OS/town always says things like:

Gg no re if you think I'm scum

If you think I'm scum for this then well... good luck.

I don’t remember him ever doing this as scum…


Kats – going back and looking at Katsuki, I’m leaning town…opening post could be seen as a soft claim to VT…Kats really pushed for the D1 lynch of Antagon, especially when there was a lot of uncertainty in regards to Antagon’s claim…I think Kats could have easily jumped over to the hp wagon and not been questioned about it…Going through his ISO I really don’t see anything damning either…also Katsuki’s #1368 right before deadline seems very town to me..


I am V/LA tomorrow, as I’m sure most everyone else is, but I will be here on Friday all day before deadline…and seeing as it will mostly be dead at work, I should have plenty of time to finish up my reads…
I still need to re-read Syryana, but I definitely want to take a closer look at Amrun and Ffery..i still don’t like the fact that everyone auto-assumes flavor cop is town…like I said , I’ve been burned multiple times from flavor cops turning out to be scum (FF6 and 90’s cartoon) and if she is scum, she could easily clear a scum mate off as town.

[sword_of_omens]

Unless i’m reading this wrong somehow, his unvote makes sense to me...he originally looked at it as too powerful to be scum, then thought it might be considered a fake claim....

The thing is, it's not too strong to be scum. It is too strong to be town.

it is OP'd either way....

Also, please note that OS is at L-1

i will be re-reading Syr, Ffery, and Amrun today...

fucking hate that I have no idea who SoO wants to lynch right now,

most likely it will be from Syr, Amrun, Ffer...I've stated why i think OS is town, and Kats had opportunity D1 to quietly let a mislynch go through, but instead was calling for Antagon's lynch the loudest.....

[sword_of_omens]

@Zdenek – Mainly because of his interactions with Tierce..he looks like he is genuinely trying to get a read on her alignment, with the way he pushes back at her…and like I said, his #724 and #1266 are things that I have noticed that he only says as town..as scum, I have never seen him do that…

***

I originally thought that she was scum, particularly since she's only ever been in one Vi-modded game that I can see and by and large Tarharlindur is a scum role in Vi games. However, my "Amrun is likely town" scenario came from this.

Flavor cop in this scenario has zero utility for scum. Scum really only need to find the one role: Enomis. As he was from Ar Tonelico (not Ar Telonico, bad Vi, no puppy), and there are no other characters from that universe, scum couldn't have been given any information regarding whomever had the apocalypse role that would be useful for a flavor cop (otherwise, herp dead guy derp).

Therefore, the flavorcop must be a fakeclaim if coming from scum. Given pjo's "let's claim universes!" gambit, in order for Amrun to be scum this series of events must have occurred: 1) Flavor cop fakeclaim must have been created/taken from Vi pregame, 2)Pjovek must have gambitted with said fakeclaim at the start of the game, 3)Amrun, after replacing in, must have claimed said fakeclaim during massclaim. While it is not outside the realm of possibility that this has in fact occurred, I'm putting this in the "if they did all that and pulled it off this well they can bloody have the fucking game and I'll nom them for scummies later". Therefore Amrun is town.

If Amrun is town, it follows that fery must be town. Fery knew Day 1 that pjovek was the flavor cop (of some flavor, ucwutididthur). Flavor cop in this game essentially negates fakeclaims. If fery were scum, no fucking way would Amrun still be alive. None. I would even posit that scum-fery would have pushed for Amrun to be killed over Enomis, given Enomis (afaict) didn't crumb PR, whereas pjo/Amrun did (and fery picked up on it). Even assuming the other scum overruled her on N1, Amrun still would not have survived to now.

Pjo could have just as easily planned on claiming/fake-claiming flavor cop, with Ffery being his buddy.. You have to admit it looks a little coincidental for Pjo to ask about Universe and coincidentally drop crumbs about Ffery’s role name not once, but twice, without even “checking “ for Ffery’s Universe…this would give Ffery a “legitimate reason” to have Pjo as a town read throughout the game if Pjo ever came under suspicion..Scum Ffery would have a reason to get rid of town Pjo,yes… but scum Ffery would have none to get rid of scum Pjo...After Amrun replaced in, Fferry could have easily updated her on their plan…Also, looking at Amrun’s “Universe picks”, they have all been pretty much useless..she waited until after OS and everyone else claimed before she commented on it…she could have at least stated what Universes she checked while refraining from the names she received, but she didn’t..this would also allow her to “safely” pick Universes without confirmimg anyone...

Ffery - Ffery refrained from voting end of D1…she did vote Egg, but immediately unvoted as soon as Tierce asked for one…she also gave Bungle a town read for flip-flopping on her without reason (which still does not make sense)…she already had her “gut read” that Pjo was town, and then she gave Zdenek a town read right after his #402 which he stated it wasn’t a big deal about whether or not she was buddying Pjo and that Pjo was a better target for scum, anyway…
She never gives scum reads on anyone in the game, either…
her #651 was an ISO wall of Zach that she said was negative, but then at the end of it she never really clarifies what her stance on him is. I think the closest she got to an actual scum read was hp and me…and she never really even pursued either one of us..she kept pushing off her scum-read of hp saying that he was scummy, but wanting to wait on voting for him (#900)
She did do an ISO read of me, which she called out as “pretty bad” right after in her #901, but again doesn’t place a vote or even try to pursue me…even though she again says “I don't think I've ever had as strong a negative read from SoO's posts before” in her #907.
She instead votes hp when he antagonizes the non voters...
Next she states that she is leaning scum on Implosion and me...mainly because she was thinking about sheeping Matt’s list..when asked point blank by Syr who her scum reads are she says they are in disarray, and again says she was thinking about sheeping Matt’s list. She votes Implosion.
Next day she starts out voting Amrun and has a quick back and forth with her stating this:

don't think I've ever seen someone pass up their primary scum read and put a vote on their secondary except as a compromise, or due to trusting someone else's read to be more accurate. Except on a couple of occasions when the player was scum.
You did neither of those, which leads me to think this is another of those "player is scum" occasions

And then unvotes her for almost no reason:

Well.
Reread has clarified fuck-all. But that's par for the course in this game.
UNVOTE: Unvote Amrun

She is now stating that she will most likely be voting for OS..i find it very strange that she hasn’t really pursued me considering i’ve been her main scum read pretty much all game, yet instead continually opts for the main wagons...

Pjo/Amrun – Agin Pjo’s play was bad at the start of the game...his posts were manily troll posts..where he does a fake reads list, asks Tammy about a non-existant case of his... he misrepped me by trying to paint me as a lurker on D1 based on my “i’ll be catching up today” post and tried to push it as a viable PL...Not to mention his post:

I thought scum only had a QT during nightphases?
If so then this is silly.
Or are pregame QTs actually a thing?
Sounds useless, theres like nothing to talk about without any posts.

This could easily be faked..especially the part about pre-game QT’s..that would definitely play into Ffery/Pjo planning to claim/fake-claim cop...
He also came back with this:

Alright, if pregame QTs actually exist, then I'm okaaaay lynching Eggplant, but I don't really like the wheels the wagon is driving on. They spin in different directions.

Again, alluding to pre-game QT...
Pjo also commented on Ffery (after Zach did) for flaking out on the Eggplant wagon when Tierce asked her to unvote , but never tried pursuing her at all...
Again ...more ties:

Also should I share my super-secret way of reading ffery as town?

Still waiting for that....as it wasn’t because he supposedly “copped her”.
Amrun, meanwhile interact much with Ffery up until a bit later.
#902 is where she says if she had 2 votes, the second would be on Ffery..based on stuff that got “eaten by the tigers”.
She then doesn’t say anything else at all about her until #1158:
(For the record, I was going to vote ffery out of the gate today but decided I wanted to watch this develop instead without influencing it.)
Then in #1170 she finally does vote her, which brings about the “but Pjo seemed to know my role” conversation.
Implosion is then lynched...
They start up the new day again...however Amrun doesn’t vote Ffery but instead votes Syryana (so as to “cop” her that night, assuming)
And Ffery unvotes Amrun with the whole “it doesn’t make sense, but ok”
And Mass claim ensues where it all “comes together”
Ferry is then cleared...

So if Ffery is scum, then Amrum HAS to be scum...there’s no other reason...as Scum –Ffery would have killed Amrun early in game due to the crumb if Amrun was town.
If Amrun is scum then Ffery could very well be scum as well..again, the whole lil dash thing is way too coincidental to have happened twice...the interaction between the two looks like they could be buddies...
Frankly, i’d feel better knowing if Amrun is lying or not and would prefer to vote her as Pjo’s play seems much more scum oriented to me (and quite honestly, because if i get burned again over a stupid flavor cop, i'll be really pissed) but i will vote either one...

Vote:Amrun

Also,

@MOD

i will be V/LA for the weekend, however i will find a spot with my phone before deadline to try move a vote if need be, or to answer anything directed at me...

[sword_of_omens]

Se're not no lynching today, so fuck off SoO and your Amrun vote. Basically you just bought yourself tomorrow's rope. So that's cute.

I've played with SoO before and he's never whined like this about lack of access, so he probably is actually scum too, so right now, I'd l ove to string him up, but getting a wagon going there is isn't going happen now.

So somebody should probably
======[]
[]======

you are wrong here, Zdenek try reading DBZ mafia..ffery was there and can tell you I got called out for the exact same thing.... and no I wasn't scum there, either... as far as my vote goes, , I said I would move it if I had to before dead line, but I was hoping that people would at least read and discuss the shit i type rather than just dismiss it....I had preferred not to vote on my town reads and think it's a legitimate case.. there was plenty of time to at least discuss it...

@Kats... although it doesn't really matter now, I probably would have gone with you... I've played with OS quote a bit and would like to think that I can read him pretty well...

[sword_of_omens]

checking in by phone...
I still think I might prefer Amrun or Ffery,
but I plan on re-reading later tonight or sometime tomorrow when I can get to a nice quiet spot...

[sword_of_omens]

Fferry,

You and Anrun make the most sense to me as a scum team...
i've started in my previous post how it looks that way... why did I pick her over you as far as voting? prretty sure I also stated why.. I've been burned again and again on scum cops...FF6 mafia, Diddin claimed name cop, and went all the way through the end and won for scum...90's Cartoin maf, MichelSablehart claimed name cop and although we did finally lynch him after me pressing everybody, scum still went on to win that game... so i kind of hold a persinal grudge against nontradtional cops, especially if I think they are scum...and especially when it might lose us the game..

but like I said, I woukd have been happy with either of you...


I still haven't re-read like I wanted to, but should be getting to that tonight...

[sword_of_omens]

@SOO: You claimed PR a few days ago. Have you had any results of any kind since? You haven't claimed anything in days...

Unfortunately, there hasn’t been a whole lot to claim, really…
N1 I tried to inhale Psyduck and failed.
N2 I tried to inhale Psyduck and failed.
N3 I tried to inhale Magic Urn and succeeded
N4 I used my ability on Zdenek
N5 I tried to inhale Mr I

Why did you appeal to your scum read to back you up about this?

You are the only living player that was in the game with me…whether or not you are scum doesn’t really matter here, as it would look pretty silly for you to say “that’s not true!” when it can easily be linked and shown..i couldn’t link it at the time because I was on my phone..

Ffery – (if you were town) and think that I am scum, and you think Syr is town, (and unless I’m reading this wrong) then that only allows Amrun as my partner?
Seeing as everyone else is confirmed (you and Kats through Amrun) That leaves just me…and i highly doubt it's a solo scum left, so she would have to be lying about someone being confirmed, or she would have to be scum herself… So logically you shouldn’t have any problems with lynching Amrun today, right?

Also, Syrana is correct…scum would have to have fake claims, given that Antagon flipped as “Demise”… So her playing it off as “it doesn’t mean you are town” isn’t really valid..and the fact that she didn’t investigate her top scum read last night doesn’t even make sense…why would she worry about a Katsuki mislynch, if she thought she could catch scum THAT night? Again, if she really thought the whole “it doesn’t mean you are town” thing, then how would that apply to her saying that she was worrying about stopping a mislynch on Kats? It wouldn’t…
Also noted is that Amrun has not been quick-lynched and neither has Syryana..
So either Syrana is scum on Amrun’s wagon, or Amrun is scum on Syr’s wagon…and i really doubt it's the former...
I’m running out of the office in just a few minutes to take some customers out and will check in a bit later (well before deadline) and place my vote on Amrun..

[sword_of_omens]

ok, I'm checking in by phone...

@ffery - I protected Zdenek because he was the strongest town read of the game... I thought he had the most likely chance of being NKd..
OS had enough heat on him by other players that I thought he had a better chance at not being targetted....

anyway, nothing has changed in my mind about Amrun... and im ready to vote..and seeing as its getting close, id rather do this now, rather than later towards deadline when it might possibly go to a no lynch, if in fact Amrjn is scum ( which im pretty Damn sure she is), and her team mate tries to hold back...

Vote : Amrun

pretty sure I didn't screw this up, but if I did, then sorry...

[sword_of_omens]

alirght...well it looks like i have a lot of reading to do...
i'm going to go back and do a full re-read, and then most likely as a lot of questions...
unfortunately it will have to be done tomorrow, as i am leaving work in about an hour or so...

[sword_of_omens]

reading today....will be posting my thoughts and questions shortly...

[sword_of_omens]

OK..starting with Katsuki, as i’ve been leaning on Ffery-scum, and i want to try and re-read her with a fresh set of eyes so as to be as unbiased as possible seeing as it’s lylo...

D1
Matt chases after Kats as scum... Kats (as scum) could have hard-bussed Egg setting up Matt for D2 mislynch (Egg replaced out quickly, Antagon had a lot of heat on him, and also flipped Vanilla Scum, so this scenario is plausible given that Egg/Anta looks to be pretty expendable)...The reason for this as scum would be for town cred on the scum lynch, and to get support for a D2 Matt lynch...although it seems to be an excessive amount of work for an unknown payout...However, seeing as Hp also had a lot of controversy on him, Kats could have easily quieted down, let Hp get mislynched, and then take up the rally on Anta/Matt the next day..Instead, Kats actively calls for, and continues to push, Anta’s lynch...this doesn't seem like a scum play to me...

D1 ends...
Anta is lynched.
Enomis is NK’d


D2 Kats pushes for Matt lynch, and fails..Matt changes Kats read to town
Hp is mislynched
Matt is NK’d
if Kats’ goal from the beginning was to get rid of Matt mainly because he was a threat then this could also make some sense..except Matt had changed his read on Kats from scum to town..also Matt did claim VT, so there should be more viable targets out there for scum Kats to kill... Matt also had other people interested in his lynch, as he was Hp’s only real competing wagon that day...this NK target doesn’t make sense at all no matter how you look at it...he could have easily been targeted the next day as a very viable mislynch...

Day2 ends...
Hp is lynched
MattP is NK’d



D3
With Kats’ two scumreads gone he moves over to Tierce
#1101 Kats agrees with Tammy stating that Amrun is selectively applying scumminess
Kats and Tierce go back and forth in thread
Changes mind on Tierce, (trusting Tammy’s read) states that he doen’t want to lynch implosion..and instead plans to target OS, Zd, SoO, for the Hp mislynch
Runs out of time and Votes implosion
Tierce did call out Kats for for changing his mind from Tierce-scum to Tierce-town based on Tammy’s townread of her...
Kats also replies the following to Tierce:
“4. If by limping away from a dead wagon you mean having to compromise on someone who I don't really want to lynch due to deadline then sure. But if he's flipping town there are major problems with this last line of yours in the post above”.
implying that if Imp flips town then Tierce looks very suspect...If Kats is scum, then this gives him a viable mislynch target to pursue for the next day, however, Tierce was NK’s that night instead..

D3 ends...
Implosion is lynched
Tierce is NK’d


D4
Gets a little sticky for me
Starts the day with SoO or OS for scum.
Attacks OS pretty heavily and now comments on Amrun and “Tar”: saying that Tar is always scum and always a powerful PR, and that Amrun,(if scum) is most likely lying about her role..
However, he is still happy pursuing OS for lynch.
Other notes (which i’ll get into later, down below) :
#1346 “I agree with Zdenek regarding Amrun.”.
And #1363 – “I'm ok with lynching SOO. Hadn't noticed what zdenek pointed out before. It's similar to what antagon did.
We should agree what universe Amrun should be checking tonight”
His #1368 is a pretty decent post, where he gives his (possible) final reads: Tammy town, felt better about Zd, OS scum and Syr most likely scum

D4 ends...
No Lynch goes through
Tammy is Nk’d


D5
Starts day voting OS
Not much here, except he calls out Syr on an OS vote but misread the VC..

D5 ends...
OS is lynched
Zdenek dies




D6
Starts day with possibility of one of Amrun/SoO is scum based on PR spec...Ferry as town, and a FOS on Syr
Questions Amrun but still thinks Syr is the play for lynch...
Kats shows up at twilight due to being sidetracked (i could see this as maybe scum waiting for a possible No Lynch), however, he does ask the following:
"(Also how ballsy would you guys (Syr and Amrun) be to powerbus each other in LYLO?)"
This could be seen as trying to set up next day lylo with Syryana as a very likely mislynch..however, Syryana is NK’d that night...
It doesn’t seem to make sense as Kats scum to kill off Syr after making that comment to Syr..

D6 ends...
Amrun is lynched
Syryana is Nk’d



******


@Katsuki – this is actually a very good point:

Pjo somehow knew that YOU were rainbowdash, which should not be possible without role info. Tammy only knew that Zdenek's role was in the game, but not WHO.

@Kats -
i would like clarification on something in regards to your ISO...I came across something, and I’m trying to understand why you didn’t really pressure or vote Amrun sooner, given what you had said…

Amrun’s

The color part is really not the part that is important. The important part is that it makes extremely little sense for scum to ghost hammer since Antagon was scum, and it makes EVEN LESS SENSE for TOWN to ghost hammer ESPECIALLY since no one has fessed up today.
The only other thing that even remotely makes sense is hp leaves being a big scum power (since Antagon was vanilla scum as far as I can tell), which STILL make hp leaves scum, sooooooooooooooooo.

Which you followed right up with:

Vi games always has Tar. And Tar is always scum.

Once Amrun claimed “Tar” you stated:

We're short on time so I'll comment on Amrun's role too. So far I don't know what to think of it. I have no idea what the chances of Vi giving town both a flavour cop and Tarharlandur... Tar is historically ALWAYS scum in Vi games, and usually the most powerful or unique PR on the scumteam. Role is only useful for confirming other roles, which would suggest that, if town, that scum have roles where they'd have an incentive to lie about their rolename?

#1346 You then agreed with Zdenek in regards to Amrun looking scummy based on her posting times,
#1363 You then said that you would be fine lynching me and asked what Universe Amrun should check:
Even after OS was lynched, and although you did attack Amrun for her not posting during mylo yesterday , you still thought Syr was the play..

Can you please walk me through your thought process on Amrun, based on what you knew about Tar with regards to Vi games, please?

[sword_of_omens]

The other ISO, and questions will have to come tomorrow, as i am leaving work now...

[sword_of_omens]

incoming....

[sword_of_omens]

Ffery -


D1
Ok, Fferry starts with a light defense of Pjo.admittedly, this is after Pjo’s first post of “lil dash” , and Universe claim Gambit”
Matt calls her out for lying about her “Pjo gambits as both alignments”
She says she likes Syryana’s reads except would like to withhold judgment on Syr’s scum read of Pjo..
Pjo defends Ffery from Matt
She then says Pjo is probtown...i really don’t see anything here that would make her say this as Pjo pretty much just fluffs the thread up with nonsense talk..
Although he does mention “Pre-game QT”, so that might be the reason if she were town...Also noted is that both of them say that they are used to scum not giving town reads to their mates (from their other sites) So this could be WIFOM set up if they are both scum..the only thing that might concern me here is the timing of Ffery’s post... Pjo states the “Pre-game QT” post, then in a separate post claims that he’s used to scum not giving town reads (from his ither site) to their buddies at all...Ffery then replies to Pjo that she too, is used to scum not giving town reads to their scum mates...Then after that post (with no further posting from Pjo) she unprovokedly states Pjo is prob-town...
She says she would vote Egg, if she were to place a vote...Syr asks why her read of Pjo town and she does reply mainly for “QT” and “lil dashes” (so this does make some sense if Ffery town)

She then votes Eggplant...
Enomis asks why so late? And she replies that she is very deliberate with her votes on D1..
Pjo places Eggplant at L-1 and when Enomis questions this to Pjo, it is Ffery responding with “do you have a problem with him being at L-2?
Pjo corrects her saying L-1 and he doesn’t want a random quickhammer..She says she didn’t count correctly..so it looks like an honest miscount from ffery,
Tierce then asks someone to unvote and Ffery does immediately..Zdenek calls her out on this and she says one vote doesn’t make a difference and she doesn’t want a derphammer..
If that’s the case, then why didn’t she just remove it when Pjo clarified L-1? Unless she was trying to find a way off the wagon without looking scummy..having a town member ask her to unvote was a good opportunity for that..Pjo then also calls out Ffery (quoting Zdenek) as failing on the wagon, she had votes on her already as well, so Pjo could have easily pushed her as a counterwagon vote, but chose not to..
Instead, he somehow still has her as “the most town" player of the game...Ferry also gives her strange "Mr Bungles is town for suspecting me” read...
Her and Matt go back and forth pretty heavily...
Antagon and Matt become the leading wagons
Zach asks her to vote, but she says she won’t be “chivvied” into voting before she is ready..
Says she’s ready to vote, but doesn’t...
States that SoO and Hpleaves are now on her dislike list..
#653 She then pushes Hp as a possible scum saying why she doesn’t like him but still does not vote...she also states that although she dislikes Antagon, she doesn’t think he should be lynched...
She refrains from voting at the end of the day...(although Syryana’s invisible vote did come into play, here)

D1 ends...
Anta is lynched.
Enomis is NK’d




D2
Starts out with a quick Syr is town for misreading flip..
States she had an Hp vote she wanted to put down but will wait.
I thought this was an odd statement:
#897 ” Whether players thought Pjo was scummy or not isn't such a big deal, but how they came to the conclusion is. And, it's not been the best of sieves, since Zachrules pinged over it and he flipped town.”
#900 She then pushes Hp as scummy, but she still might think he is town, based on Bungles,..and still wants to wait to vote...
What’s funny here is right after that in the next post, #901 she then pushed me as scum looking to avoid voting Antagon and looking to mislynch Hp instead because he was a viable wagon at the time.
Next up is that she was going to vote for Hp but shge’s never had such negative reads from SoO’s posts, and she doesn’t like my direction at all...She also doesn’t vote me, which is strange..unless she didn’t want to lead a mislynch and was hoping to get people to vote me first, before placing a vote?
She then votes Hpleaves after he antagonizes the no voters...noted here, is that she followed her scum read’s vote (mine) onto Hp(Bungles), putting him at L-2...she defends her Bungles town read and then gets into a quick back and forth with Syr...

Day2 ends...
Hp is lynched
MattP is NK’d




D3
Starts with an “i told you so” in regards to Bungles being town...
States that its now down to Implosion or SoO for vote today...
She then asks Zd what he thinks about Tierce/Amrun
Also noted:
Zd #1167 “I also think that people (like SoO and Implosion) who's posts make it impossible to get a read on them have a higher chance of flipping scum than people who's interactions with scum point to them being buddies (the latter thing scum can try to avoid, but the former is beneficial for them), so I'd vote there before voting for Tierce - with a strong lean towards voting for Implosion over SoO”
She rplies with :#1169 “Your thoughts about SoO and implosion resonate because I've PoEd to the same conclusion.”
How am i only PoE for her if i have been her strongest and most negative read person in thread to her?
Hmm...this is where Amrun pushes ffery, and then asks about the crumbs...the two leading wagons at the time were Katsuki and implosion..so this distraction (if they were both scum) doesn’t really make much sense..i would think they could both easily push an implosion mislynch through instead....or possibly Amrun could have tried to deflect from the Kats-scum wagon by targeting Ffery i guess, but again i think it would have been easier to just try and mislynch implosion...meh, they could have meant this distraction as to distance each other...but when there was no real focus on them, why make noise? They could have meant this as a segue into Amrun’s cop claim? but Hell idk...
She does say that the “lil dashes” were the main reasoning for her town read on Pjo, and she wanted it out on the table..
Ffery then votes implosion...

D3 ends...
Implosion is lynched
Tierce is NK’d



D4
Ffery claims Rainbow Dash and says she will probably vote Amrun, but wants to think...
She asks Syr if Kats is scum...
Then decides to Vote Amrun for setting up lynches and passing up their primary scum read to vote on their secondary..
Then says she says:
#1278 “Reread has clarified fuck-all. But that's par for the course in this game.”
And Unvotes Amrun...This doesn’t make sense to me at all? Why would you unvote, especially if a re-read didn’t seem to change your mind about anything?
Now it’s mass claim time...Ffery already claimed her name so she decides to go first...
Here she takes control of popcorn and asks Kats to go next.
Why wouldn’t she ask for Amrun first (or me for that matter)? Amrun was highly suspicious for her...she should want Amrun’s claim first so as not to have too much info out there for scum to possibly build a fakeclaim from...instead she asks for Katsuki, who so far hasn’t expressed any real suspicion towards Amrun, but was going back and forth with OS at the time…
She then asks Syr if he thinks Kats is town...Syr says no , so she says ok, she will probably vote him too...
Then she says Amrun’s claim gives her paranoia, because she somehow knew her role, yet Amrun claims that she didn’t cop her...This alone should have drawn a vote from Ffery, as Amrun appears to be lying...She then votes Kats at night to possibly stop a no lynch from going through..



D4 ends...
No Lynch goes through
Tammy is Nk’d


D5
Ffery starts the game asking what Amrun learned..Ffery is cleared by Amrun...
Ffery then asks Syr has OS as town and SoO as scum but also berates him for making her vote Katsuki yesterday...this is also strange..considering i have been her top candidate for most of the game, why would she be mad at Syr if he had similar thoughts that i am scum now? Also why would she be mad about voting for Kats yesterday?
She then says she has no reads on me and OS and doesn’t know about Amrun...
She also states this:
#1412 “I think Tammy's flip all but confirms Zdenek.”
Zdenek puts a case on OS and she says it looks pretty convincing..but still she goes to Syr for his opinion on it...
Says she has no plans to lynch OS but if he is town then someone will...
She also says the following:
#1466 @Oversoul, Syr is trying to convince me to not vote you.
You've been at L-1 for a while. I think that if you are town and even one town player is on your wagon, you would already be hammered
This looks like she is setting up her excuse to hammer him...
And then sends her question to Syryana about what he thinks about her comment about OS at L-1 for a long time and that if he were town he would already have been hammered...
Syryana hammers OS

D5 ends...
OS is lynched
Zdenek IS Nk’d



D6
#1484 she soft defends Amrun when Kats attacks Amrun for posting on site without posting in thread...
States that she prefers to lynch me...
Reasoning:
#1494 - “I don't really have much of a case either. Just a feeling that his play in this game has been different from the town game we played.”
She states that she is still unsure about Amrun, seeing as Pjo was town for her:
#1496 - “OTOH I did genuinely read pjo as town, while he was in the game. Same with mrbungles and I'm still pissed at myself about setting that read aside and voting hp”
I don’t like the fact that she uses her “town read on Bungles” and his mislynch as a defense for Amrun...
She then goes on about why she doesn’t like me for town, and that it is difficult to see who my partner would be:
#1499 - “It's been difficult to pick a scum partner for SoO. If Amrun is scum, it's been sort of dangerous to push her lynch.”
Again, here it seems as if she is defending Amrun, by saying it’s not likely her because that would be too dangerous...
After i ask her about her logic and that it must make me and Amrun scum together, because of her town read on Syr she then says :
#1517 –“ Syr is a big question mark in my mind. I've read him as town in every single game we have played together (with the exception of the game where I was scum and knew for sure he was town) and I have been correct. He's mostly had correct reads on me. Playing as a hydra does mean that we've gained some insight into what the other thinks, but doesn't post, and that could be contributing to his pretty much ongoing suspicion of me. And could be contributing to my increasing paranoia about him.”
Again she seemed to quietly deflect the thought of Amrun scum and instead says she is increasingly paranoid about Syr...
She then says she will most likely vote me or Amrun, but not sure...
She then re-reads me and i’m possibly town...
She then states that Syr and Amrun might be town on town and asks why Kats is on the sidelines, and casts suspicion on him...
she clears me (just for the day she says) which i thought was weird...why “just for the day?” and why did she feel the need to say that?
#1551 here she states that she’s unsure of voting for Amrun in case she’s town and a quicklynch happens..this could be seen as stalling for a no lynch, seeing as Kats hadn’t shown up and i was out on phone only status..
Amrun is voted and Ffery hammers..


D6 ends...
Amrun is lynched
Syryana is Nk’d

*****

some notable concerns are from D2 play and D4 play…

D2 where she pushes while at the same time fence sitting on possible Hp scum but Bungles town… she claims that I was trying to essentially trying to mislynch Hp to avoid a scum lynch of Antagon…but then she followed my vote onto Hp Wagon after HP antagonized the non voters... Considering she just said that her read of me was the worst she had ever had and that I was her main suspect, I find this very odd...

D4 with the “clarified Fuckall Unvote of Amrun” …after re-reading and having nothing change her mind, why did she feel the need to Unvote? And then the popcorn to Katsuki…Because she had already name-claimed, she decided to start the mass claim…I still don’t understand why she wouldn’t have popcorned to Amrun or me considering we were her top suspects..instead she asked Kats to popcorn..Kats who had been mainly pushing OS…I would think she would want her top scum reads to claim first…

D6 play is also strange with regards to Amrun (see above D6)


Something else i noticed that i would like answered, please :

#44 - “I haven't seen his (Pjo) scum game. I replaced into a newbie game that he had earlier replaced out of. The first 3 pages of that game were hilarious and Pjo IMO played a significant role in tripping up one scum player who just could not let go of his play or his replacement.”

#326 - “They (Bungles and Pjo) both play on a site where game days are short - 48 hours, I think, and although majority lynch is often the format, from what I've seen reaching 50% + 1 does not end the game day. Players can run the bandwagon beyond that threshold and back down”

#807 - “SoO, playing with someone who plays like I play at MS in real time, without pages worth posts to evaluate in one sitting, is basically guaranteed to look scummy to a player like Bungles the first time we play together from the start. Even with 20+ days worth of posts I was his weakest town read IIRC. I expected him to conclude otherwise over time, but I was not surprised at his vote, nor at when he put it down.”

If you only know Pjo from a newbie game that you replaced into his slot, and the first time playing with Bungles was DBZ which was just recently with me (that Pjo got no mention of) then how do you know what site both Pjo and Bungles play on , and how their site works as far as day lengths?

[sword_of_omens]

Sword, please tell me

HOW DID YOU MISS THE 'LIL DASHES' BREADCRUMBS ON DAY 1?

not sure what you mean by this? how was i supposed to know that Lil dashes was a reference to your character?
And how am i supposed to have known that you had immediately picked up on it on Day 1? i didn't see the crumbs, because i didn't know to look for them at the time?

[sword_of_omens]

And day 3, you don't even MENTION the exchange with Amrun where I called her out asking about Pjo's lil dashes.

What the fuck?

umm?

and then asks about the crumbs...the two leading wagons at the time were Katsuki and implosion..so this distraction (if they were both scum) doesn’t really make much sense..i would think they could both easily push an implosion mislynch through instead....or possibly Amrun could have tried to deflect from the Kats-scum wagon by targeting Ffery i guess, but again i think it would have been easier to just try and mislynch implosion...meh, they could have meant this distraction as to distance each other...but when there was no real focus on them, why make noise? They could have meant this as a segue into Amrun’s cop claim? but Hell idk...
She does say that the “lil dashes” were the main reasoning for her town read on Pjo, and she wanted it out on the table..

[sword_of_omens]

Yabbut they have been a topic of conversation since day 3. How could you go through day 1 and not notice where the breadcrumbs were, and when I told Syr the basis of my townread?

ok, are we not reading the same thing here?

D1
Ok, Fferry starts with a light defense of Pjo.admittedly, this is after Pjo’s first post of “lil dash” , and Universe claim Gambit”

[sword_of_omens]

Ffery, i know its a long WoT,but please read it from the top...

[sword_of_omens]

like i said above, it was mainly the timing of that particular post that is suspect for me..
Your town read came unprovoked...
(as ffery town)i can see you catching the lil dash reference and thinking wait a minute,ok, hold off on the scum read of Pjo..he might have something..And then his mention of Pre-game QT might have also clarified the thought that he did have pre-game analysis on you, so you thought ok he's most likely town...so if you had caught it when he said pre-game QT , then that would make sense...but since you threw it out that he was town unprovoked, then why wouldn't you have done it after that post of his?
instead you waited and responded to another post of his first...one that said "We don't give town reads to our scum mates" with which you agreed with and said essentially you used to do the same thing...

and then after that particular post (with no other Pjo posts in between) you gave your town read on him...
it looks like you could have been setting it up...

"i don't give town reads to my scum mates"
"Me neither"
"Hey, you're town"

It's mainly me just trying to figure shit out....that's I didn't make a huge deal of it at the bottom of the wall where i voiced my concerns, because mainly it's WIFOM...

[sword_of_omens]

unfortunately...i have to leave work..i'll check in by phone tonight to answer anything if i can...
mainly, i wanted you to address my concerns i listed, Ffery...

[sword_of_omens]

I want Sword's reaction before I vote.

In regards to your #1648 I looked it over, but I doubt that there is any way Kats scum/ town would have known Amrun would be replacing into a scum slot this game…Amrun wasn’t even the first replacement of the game…she was the third and didn’t get replaced in until post# 676…the first replacement wasn’t put in until #354, and not to mention that there was a town replacement of Bungles/Hp in the mix as well..Also, looking at the Mod ISO, each of the players look to have been prodded before hand..so if scum were talking about replacing out, I doubt Vi would have prodded first…
So this part of your argument is null to me…

I will take into account the Amrun and Kats using tigers as an excuse to attack, though…

Honestly, I think the problem I am having with you right now, Ffery, is that rather than trying to figure out which of would be scum (if you were town) by asking questions of us, you seem to be looking for excuses to try and get Kats and me to cross vote each other…

#1590 is your game read post ,ending : “I'm undecided, but leaning in the direction of Katsuki being town”
Immediately following that post is #1591which is an Ate to Kats :
“If town loses this because I am mislynched, it's totally my fault. Rereading the thread with the knowledge of Amrun's flip, I can't believe I didn't go after Amrun for all I was worth on day 4. Her scumreading me after Pjo's little dashes posts were a clear sign that there had been a tactical change, or a dropped baton.”
#1648 is a case on Kats that ends with: “I believe it is you who are Amrun's scumbuddy, Katsuki.”
And you ask for my opinion on this...
Then before i can even comment, you post #1651 to Kats quoting Syr, saying that Syr like me as scum:
“I really muddied the waters with my paranoia about the amrun/syr wagons on day 6. But, I think he was leaning more toward SoO being scum.
And that damn Kirby role claim. Vig, Double voter, weakened JOAT vs scum flavor cop”

To me, considering you have been relying/buddying/sheeping/whatever a lot on Syr town this game, this implies that you probably wouldn’t have a problem voting me if Kats placed his vote..

Then again, you go back to #1656 with Kats scum saying : “And I will vote you based on post 1648.”

You also had some flustered posts after my main ISO of you, (#1626, 1627, 1628) where you missed some things that i had touched on and attacked me for them...
and then also again when you thought i hadn’t even looked at Kats...
The town ffery i have played always seemed collectively deliberate with her posts..here, you are kind of all over the place...if you have any other games where you act like this as town, would you please link one for me?

[sword_of_omens]

ugh...you know what...i'm probably not going to change my mind on this ...
there's just too much wrong...

Vote: ffery

Sorry if i failed...

[sword_of_omens]

ummm?

[sword_of_omens]

shit....

[sword_of_omens]

@Ffery - pretty certain that Mods don't like talk until after the official flip...

[sword_of_omens]

heh heh...I finally get to draw scum...
on my phone...

hopefully Amrun doesn't mind me posting this.
scum QT:
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/fkyHEjtCffHAF

I had a blast playing this one... thanks Vi

Pjo did an awesome job day 1 double bussing...
and Amrun was simply awesome as a partner...
unfortunate I'm on my phone so I can't get into everything like I'd like to, so I'll have to post all that stuff tomorrow...
is there a dead QT link?

[sword_of_omens]

also.. trying to figure out that cryptogram was a pain in the ass...
I felt so ooooo bad deceiving you OS, I really did

[sword_of_omens]

heh...I almost wanted to let Ffery do some more posting before I hammered her... but then I thought Amrun would be pissed If I screwed it up somehow andlost it for us...

[sword_of_omens]

does someone have the dead QT link?

[sword_of_omens]

also wanted to give a shot out to Tierce, for the help...
we totally forgot that out was Instant Night after the role was killed...
we would have forgotten to kill if you hadn't mentioned it in thread...

so big th gankd !!