Balto the Invitational - Game Over

[Iecerint]

Reck is scum

Vote: Reck

Frequency may be scum but I don't want to lynch Frequency. <3

ActionDan is town.

I will massclaim if ActionDan asks me to but he should get CRITICAL MASS first so AP/Maestro please do not do that foolishness (EDIT: "lead by example" etc).

Oh man Amrun has unnatural feelings about Frequency WHOAAAAA #noted. And she votes Reck which I guess he is scummy but he's gotten so cute by this page that I would have no longer been voting by now had I posted yesterday.

Unvote; Vote: Amrun

Gamma please stop being a difficult person it is terrible (#117).

Reck is town (118).

CES is so cute when he has his Nibbler avatar. ]]] (134).

Fate makes me really want to vote him in 144 but I am so proud of my Reck synergy on Amrun that I will not do that.

Trollie could be scum, but I am not emotionally attached to voting Trollie.

[Iecerint]

You are just posting memes and trying to be cute. I think this is probably on the scummy side if I were forced to make a decision BUT I am kind of enjoying it and it is in the spirit of things, so I think it would be inappropriate to call you out on it with too much gusto.

[Iecerint]

Do you think you are doing something other than posting memes and being cute, or do you think it isn't on the scummy side to do so? Or do you think it is not in the spirit of things? Or should I call you out with gusto despite that?

[Iecerint]

Do you think you are doing something other than posting memes and being cute, or do you think it isn't on the scummy side to do so? Or do you think it is not in the spirit of things? Or should I call you out with gusto despite that?

I think it's actually really towny and that you're just trying to put me in my place to divert my attention away from Trollie

Aka you're his scumbuddy

See, this kind of taking it a bridge too far and crossing into umambigously scummy and/or disruptive territory that is acceptable to become cross with using gusto.

[Iecerint]

Iecerint, why do you love Frequency more than me?!? :'(

JK.

But really, what do you mean by "unnatural feelings?"

I think it would be poor form to lynch Frequency D1, above and beyond any affection I may have for him.

Feelings are unnatural if they are different from the ones I get.

[Iecerint]

I didn't even know CDB was in this game.

[Iecerint]

You just have to add some extra complementizers and filler words that other languages could conceivably let you drop.

[Iecerint]

I am annoyed by the current level of "hehehe look at my scummy behaviors as town" meta on this site and have decided to try to reduce it using violence.

This way I can take credit when the tide naturally swings back in the opposite direction.

[Iecerint]

God I wish I had 3 votes in big games.

[Iecerint]

It makes it harder to read the players who are doing it, though. So the utility as a strategy is lower as more and more players adopt the approach.

[Iecerint]

It makes it harder to read the players who are doing it, though. So the utility as a strategy is lower as more and more players adopt the approach.

Eh, I guess. I'll admit I suck at reading matt, but I think he may just be a special case for me. I can read Vifam like a champ.

It also makes players focus on town foolishness and ignore scum.

The payoff can happen if 2 players at most do this, but more than that is too noisy.

[Iecerint]

Yeah I think we're all town.

[Iecerint]

Who else should we invite to the cool kids' club?

[Iecerint]

I actually confused Governor with King somehow in my head too tbh. Don't know how that happened since I totally knew what the role did irl.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: TheTrollie

[Iecerint]

Axxle thinks all the towns are scums.

[Iecerint]

Yesterday I played FFXIV Beta for 12 hours.

[Iecerint]

I ain't even scum.

also AP is probably town after the last post.

I thought you already thought he was town?

[Iecerint]

"Beet" being AP/Maestro totally confused me.

[Iecerint]

Unvote; Vote: Amrun

[Iecerint]

Ok no. 100% of Iec/DGB are town.

[Iecerint]

But you're correct that her post is what stirred me to reflect on the fact that Trollie was looking less like scum and Amrun never really made that happen for me in a strong way.

[Iecerint]

(I could also revote Frequency with Dan, but we've been over this. But I think that's the other main vote-place on my mind.)

[Iecerint]

I didn't actually notice reck's revote but he is town to SO it doesn't bother me too much.

Also I am a you rather than a them, thanks. <3

[Iecerint]

too*

[Iecerint]

All 3 of them are Amrun revotes.

[Iecerint]

ActionDan has already clarified that the claim was fabricated.

The game is actually a pretty good read. I would encourage you to read the game and maybe skim the wallposts until you're interested in their particular authors.

[Iecerint]

Wait so.

Trollie, why didn't you deny being the Pikachu?

[Iecerint]

IMO you should vote with reck rather than against him.

[Iecerint]

But you're correct that her post is what stirred me to reflect on the fact that Trollie was looking less like scum and Amrun never really made that happen for me in a strong way.

Who is "her" in this post? I am confused.

"Her" is DGB, because of the context that should have been obvious by reading the post 3 posts prior:

Ok no. At least one of Iec/DGB are scum.

~~~~~

Once again: what is your read on Frequency?

You did a really good job at reading and quoting post 332. Let me show you post 333!

(I could also revote Frequency with Dan, but we've been over this. But I think that's the other main vote-place on my mind.)

Amrun, you seem to be only reading posts that are about you? Why is that?

[Iecerint]

Not sure why you would ask such a leading question that clearly isn't true, Iecerint. Until that post I had you as strong town.

Meh, you're still likely town but that question was bad.

Only reading self-directed posts is scummy. You appeared to be doing that.

[Iecerint]

I wasn't looking for a scum/town read on Frequency, but reasons.

I think his posts in this game look coached and unnatural and rare.

I don't understand why dgb's posts made you think long and hard about trollie but mine didn't unless there's a post from her I'm missing (quite possible)

Not "long and hard." More like, "oh yeah, there was that Amrun thing, and I've been feeling better about Trollie. OK!"

[Iecerint]

I think the typical player with Frequency on the scumteam would underestimate him and advise him to play the "noob card," either pre-game, if there's no daytalk, or in real time, if there is daytalk.

I think this is kind of what most players would do rather than something exceptional about particular players.

[Iecerint]

Frequency, please come post.

Pedit: @Trollie Why do you think scum would lie about that? It seems more like a silly joke thing that town would make than something scum would do IMO.

[Iecerint]

He has not. Newbie game took ages and ages to start, 's why. Ongoing.

Frequency, do not discuss that Newbie game in this game. It will lead to modkills.

[Iecerint]

because i was, very obviously might I add, trying to get him to dig himself into a hole if he was lying.

But if you thought he was town, why would you want him to dig himself into a hole?

[Iecerint]

and tell me, dear sir, why would scum not do that in your world?

A player who was actually the Pikachu would believe Dan's claim, obviously.

[Iecerint]

He has a scumread on AP and a townread on you.

[Iecerint]

He has a scumread on AP and a townread on you.

I'm gonna pester u to respond to my Triforce read [:

I actually had a naked "Vote: Triforce" post written, and then I deleted it and refreshed the thread, and then I saw this.

The reason I didn't post it was that a) I'm not really convinced that Amrun is town, though I'm OK with changing votes from this cuz I doubt she's going to do any more tricks for me and b) Triforce had some townie-esque dissonance related to the "OK one of Iece/DGB is scum" exchange around 332 or so IIRC though now that I reflect I can't think of what made me think that.

[Iecerint]

I've actually read basically all of Triforce as singer, or at least as not-Glork.

[Iecerint]

I've actually read basically all of Triforce as singer, or at least as not-Glork.

Nah this is Glork right now.

Anyway, cooking dinner.

Right, the current person is obviously the 3rd one. :p

[Iecerint]

If I had Glork in my hydra I would make him make all the posts.

[Iecerint]

Glork is even better at being town, but he's yet to do that, 's my point.

[Iecerint]

He probably looked at each person on the playerlist in turn and assigned them to a group. I have done that before as both alignments. Though that doesn't explain why the group names are things like Light Scum.

And the reads themselves are pretty bad, so that part is not very good.

[Iecerint]

OK

VOTE: Axxle

[Iecerint]

EBWOP

Unvote; Vote: Axxle

[Iecerint]

You are town in this game, so I am OK with it.

[Iecerint]

You are town in this game, so I am OK with it.

[Iecerint]

Our entire wagon is town so far HOORAY.

Well that is what I think.

I mean I'm more ambivalent about Nuwen but that is just because I had not noticed her posts before this most recent one, so I am sure she is also a nice lady.

[Iecerint]

ActionDan, come vote Axxle with us please. Frequency is going to lurklurklurk because he thinks it will save him from scrutiny and death, and he is mistaken, but that is OK because this will be a handier wagon atm.

[Iecerint]

He's not, he's at L-2.

Reck is encouraging people to go the extra mile and make it L-1. Idk I think L-2 is fine.

He is at L-2 for making a terrible post that was separately identified as terrible by like 3 separate microgames.

Those of you who weren't lucky enough to join the Axxle wagon should go make something else happen while we wait for Axxle to finish flying around or whatever.

[Iecerint]

(For example, you guys could all vote Frequency or Amrun.)

[Iecerint]

That would be OK, too.

Now you have 3 good options!

[Iecerint]

Frequency sent me a PM yesterday, so he's been on the site.

[Iecerint]

(I'm pretty sure that's not against the rules to indicate?)

[Iecerint]

Yes, no one thinks that Grimm is scum; there is no need to remind us.

The Axxle deal is that basically everyone had a pet wagon and had already had Axxle as a YEP ALSO SCUMMY, so it's not like it was really all that out-of-nowhere.

Plus everyone voting him except maybe Gamma is pretty town.

[Iecerint]

It is probably true that quickwagons are more likely to be on town because scum are happier to jump on than to bus sometimes.

But this case is special because Axxle has very little to answer for, so it's an ideal bussing time, anyway, and people had already voiced lots of suspicion of Axxle, so it's a "flashwagon" in name only IMO.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, the wagon is basically snoozeville central.

xRECKONERx (3) - Amrun, Cogito Ergo Sum, Triforce

LOL

[Iecerint]

Oh wow that post is so terrible.

[Iecerint]

Which of you did that?

[Iecerint]

Soooooo, Iece, money where your mouth is. You've called Axxle, Triforce, Frequency, and Amrun scum, yet NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON THE AXXLE WAGON, AND YOU CLAIM THAT NOW IS AN IDEAL TIME TO BUS.

Namely, that comment obviously in the context of Grimm's concerns about the speed of the wagon. Other stuff is also flagrantly taken out of context.

[Iecerint]

You can't argue that the speed of the wagon isn't alarming by saying BUT HE WOULD BE BUSSED, then argue that NOBODY ON HIS WAGON IS SCUM[...]That's called cognitive dissonance, and it's a blatant scumtell.

Also, what exactly was "flagrantly taken out of context"? By all means, don't sit around and take half-assed potshots at our argument. If you feel that context makes your terrible voting/posting less scummy, you're more than welcome to try to prove us wrong.

My point was that the circumstances that would normally make Grimm's concern valid are not in place, which is an context-ignorance I'm referencing. Whether bussing ACTUALLY occurred is a related point, but a separate one, and one whose absence is already explained-away by lots of players having already called Axxle scum (as I clearly indicated in I think 2 posts).

It wouldn't surprise me if some of my townreads end up being scum bussing BUT that is not low-hanging fruit and not a possibility I am very interested in at all atm. Also, I specified that I'm not all that thrilled by Gamma so far, so it's not even true that I said that no one on his wagon was sucm.

And nah, I have no ambition to make an obnoxious wallpost; your post kinda speaks for itself.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: an example of the context-ignorance*

[Iecerint]

I think it fits a lot with Axxle and Triforce being scum together. Simple explanations ftw. This feels like Psychic Mafia D1 so far.

But why they would pick ME of all people is a little funky IMO.

[Iecerint]

He softclaimed some kind of killing role, yes.

[Iecerint]

Also god i hate the word multiball so much. Mafia is not pinball. The mixed metaphors are hurting me.

[Iecerint]

^ Or Triforce could just be scum.

[Iecerint]

I think it fits a lot with Axxle and Triforce being scum together. Simple explanations ftw. This feels like Psychic Mafia D1 so far.

Really? Im growing suspicious of blatant white-knighting after that Iece vote post.

Yes, that is a possibility, but I do not want the Axxle wagon to derail before Axxle returns, so please do not point such things out yet except for as a corollary.

Another example of lolTriforce: I voted Amrun in my very first post, but was criticized for the implied-late timing of my vote for her.

[Iecerint]

Parama is not in this game...?

Pedit: Whoa, people seriously think I'm scummy? This is a legitimate shock to me. I think I'm totally obvtown. Like, I've been really pleased by how naturally this game has felt for me.

I mean N = 2 but.

[Iecerint]

@Triforce's claim that my evaluation that they view me as "scummy" must mean that I think they are town:

But why they [Triforce] would pick ME [as a counterwagon] of all people is a little funky IMO.

Nuwen's post clarified this mystery for me. I do not think that Nuwen is particularly scummy, though it's true that I hadn't noticed her posts much before the Axxle one.

[Iecerint]

I do not want the Axxle wagon to derail before Axxle returns.

Welp. Better not let the accused defend himself.

More like "be sure the accused is made to defend himself."

[Iecerint]

Amrun, please stop trying to build a scumteam around your mistaken impression that reck is scum.

[Iecerint]

I have a town read on Grimm, but the way reck said it struck me as off -- this could be a tone/Internet thing, though, not sure.

You posted this, and you're voting Reck, so I assumed the implication was that Reck was scum with Grimm.

If it was not your intent, please make your intent more clear. <3

[Iecerint]

Why did you ask me to do this, when I haven't, and not DGB, who is actively doing that?

DGB is town.

[Iecerint]

That doesn't explain the use of the word "but." The word "but" implies that what follows undermines what came before.

[Iecerint]

Anyway that could still have been her intent but it is a funny way to read it IMO.

[Iecerint]

I am kind of hurt that they think I am the easiest one to do this to, though?

I guess I do have a lot of words in this game.

[Iecerint]

I wish Axxle would hurry up and post so that I can vote Triforce. <_<

Pedit: Yes, but I hope you don't take it too seriously.

[Iecerint]

lolirl

[Iecerint]

You know, in hindsight this really bothers me. How can I have a "mistaken impression" that someone else is scum if I am scum?

Because I want to talk to you like an adult.

[Iecerint]

For someone so concerned about reading shit into all of my posts, Triforce seems awfully eager to give Amrun the benefit of the doubt with categorically-misleading language usage.

(NB: This is a post about Triforce, not Amrun.)

[Iecerint]

I have a town read on Grimm, but the way reck said it struck me as off -- this could be a tone/Internet thing, though, not sure.

You posted this, and you're voting Reck, so I assumed the implication was that Reck was scum with Grimm.

If it was not your intent, please make your intent more clear. <3

My understanding is that she was basically agreeing with us that the way Reck called Grimm town is scum-kissing-obvtown's-ass.

I'm going to just hope/assume that a different head posted this and you aren't sharing your posts with one another?

[Iecerint]

"But" in that sentence still doesn't imply Grimm is scum. I didn't say "I thought Grimm was town,"'I said he IS town.

Uh, yes you did. Read the sentence again.

I can buy that this was a legit mistake regardless of your alignment. The more interesting part is how accommodating Triforce was.

[Iecerint]

Having a town read on someone is literally the same as saying that you think someone is town.

That sentence reads as if Reck's behavior is making you question your current town read on Grimm. That is what it says in Standard American English (SAE). Hence, it is not a stretch; it is reading.

I believe you when you describe your actual intent.

[Iecerint]

Axxle has been online within the last three hours fyi, and he posted elsewhere last night

!!!!!

[Iecerint]

@Fate I will have to really hold back, but I can promise to try very hard.

[Iecerint]

Now that we've established that Amrun's intent was unclear, and Iec interpreted her intent differently than we did, how were we being "accomodating" to Amrun?

Because anyone who uses SAE would interpret it the way I did.

"But" is the categorically-misleading word.

[Iecerint]

Oh.

"I have a town read on Grimm and it is lovely to say that Grimm is town due to its accuracy; however, Reck proclaimed this true fact in a suspicious fashion, and it was NOT lovely."

OK.

[Iecerint]

Oh.

"I have a town read on Grimm and it is lovely to say that Grimm is town due to its accuracy; however, Reck proclaimed this true fact in a suspicious fashion, and it was NOT lovely."

OK.

Point of clarification: are you being sarcastic or are you acknowledging that we both had valid interpretations of her post?

The latter. I do think you had to already expect her content to see it that way at the very least, though.

[Iecerint]

(Which you would have based on what you said.)

[Iecerint]

Oh man that was totes me.

But it wasn't really that it looked the same. It looked like an intriguing monster as one might find on Sesame Street.

[Iecerint]

Let it marinate for tomorrow that:
1) Triforce STILL HASNT REFUTED MY PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE SCUMSLIP ON THEM
2) Trollie's content level has gone down 95% since the wagon went off him and has spent his only time in the thread eating glue and making collages of Beethoven posts, jumped on Triforce for a second right after my case and then jumped off for fallacious reasoning and never remedied it, and is "absolutely positive" about Frequency being town based on two three word posts

[Iecerint]

Yes

[Iecerint]

it's true. Dan was townier early on.

[Iecerint]

Or maybe he's drunk.

[Iecerint]

V/LA through late Wednesday

- family vacation thing

[Iecerint]

I'm referring to ActionDan, obviously.

[Iecerint]

I mean I doubt that's why you voted me, but I'd think you'd at least read me a little more critically.

I sense a theme... <_<

[Iecerint]

Iecerint, you're so town that you can just come in, vote Trollie, and go on with avoiding the thread, I wouldn't even care

I tried to vote Dan, but the vote tags are a pain on the iPad.

[Iecerint]

DGB explicitly said that Axxletown -> ActionDanScum due to a post he made.

I mean DGB made a lot of posts like that, but ye know.

Vote: ActionDan

[Iecerint]

Point of clarification: I specified that DGB said as much to answer Amrun's question, but I don't necessarily think that DGB's comment is either necessary or sufficient to vote Dan.

[Iecerint]

DGB's comment about Dan was most proximal to the flip and related specifically to Axxle's alignment flip, so Dan's pedantic listing of the number of times each player was called out kind of misrepresents where she was at the end of the day IMO.

[Iecerint]

The language used to encourage Axxle's lynch? Axxle was off Icerint's radar entirely until he became the lynch candidate? Explanation fails me now but we'll come back when brain is working better.

Nah, his single post was pretty bad and had terrible reads and I commented on it IIRC.

That said, the fact that it was a single post meant it wasn't saliently in my mind until someone else (erm...you, I think?) brought it up.

[Iecerint]

Has Reck done things today?

[Iecerint]

Can you not see for yourself?

Yes, but I thought your feelings would be illuminating.

Thanks @ Fate.

I was townreading Reck when he was posting a lot but for some reason I have no memory of recent reck things.

[Iecerint]

If you could look into my eyes, Iecerint, that's be greeeeeat

What's up?

[Iecerint]

The ActionDan wagon sounds like it has merit based on Post 785.

KK, I'm curious about why you indicate my post as the basis for the merit of the AD wagon rather than Beethoven's similar post, which includes the same thought. (I had not read Beethoven's post yet when I made that post.)

[Iecerint]

Vote: TheTrollie

Given the standard of play yesterday, I don't know why anyone is acting like it's meaningful that DGb died.

This is a scummy post.

[Iecerint]

No, but I think the reason she is even thinking about it is because she was, and I think the reason you're defending her is you're her buddy.

This is a scummy post.

[Iecerint]

Unvote: ActionDan

I no longer think ActionDan is scummy. Gamma puts this well re: belief in things despite convolution.

[Iecerint]

Vote: BBMolla

[Iecerint]

Trollie has done scummy things, but it made me feel good that he posted about BB's scumminess right after BB's scummy posts, and I don't think anyone else had reflected on them yet.

[Iecerint]

That was @Beethoven, but I guess it works for both of you.

CES, I do not share your sense that this game is "a mess." Regardless of whether Axxle happened to flip town (i.e., N = 1), I felt like (illusion or otherwise) I had very clear town reads by the end of D1, rather than like the game was a mess.

Pedit: Sorry you feel that way?

[Iecerint]

I think it is true that, in real life if not in-game, MattP's Trollie-pressure is very good about getting Trollie to towntell or scumtell. My guess is that it is probably less effective in forum mafia than irl, though. Combined with my overall ambivalence on Trollie, I am not personally going to sheep MattP onto Trollie at this time.

I am not protesting your POV as such; I am submitting that your POV is unnatural and hence scummy.

The POV isn't as objectionable for CDB because he's kind of lurked all game and hence probably only experienced a lot of D1 after Axxle had already flipped. You have also posted relatively little, but my impression is that you, unlike CDB, have kept up with the game throughout.

Pointing out scummy posts is actually very interesting.

[Iecerint]

Iec your reads are really bad dood

Which reads are the bad ones?

[Iecerint]

The one on me

Please use pluralization more clearly in the future.

[Iecerint]

Well. More accurately.

[Iecerint]

Trollie has done scummy things, but it made me feel good that he posted about BB's scumminess right after BB's scummy posts, and I don't think anyone else had reflected on them yet.

This is a blatant lie. He quoted me and openly sheeped me when he voted. How on EARTH did you come to this conclusion?

He doesn't quote you in the posts immediately after BBMolla's objectionable posts, which were on Sunday and are the posts I am referring to. He does quote you in his votepost, which was on Saturday.

The Saturday post didn't jump out to me because I wasn't really getting scumvibes from BB at the time, so I was like meh more iffy Trollie stuff he makes a good default vote if nothing pops up, but that was the extent of my analysis. But then the Sunday post was perfectly in-line with how I was experiencing the thread upon reread, so it stood out a lot.

The fact that he had already followed you on BB on Saturday definitely limits how much weight I should give to his Sunday post. I didn't notice this at the time because I found his Sunday post so much more inherently interesting (cf., above).

[Iecerint]

Okay, but regardless, if Trollie wasn't the only one on the BB wagon, or the first, how can he be the first one to note BB's scumminess? The votecounts reflected that on Sunday, too.

It was that he was the first one to note the scumminess

of the posts I found troubling

.

But the information you have highlighted makes clear that he may've just been parroting a read he picked up elsewhere without regard for why a certain post was disproportionately troubling. So I am no longer as made glad by Trollie's posts there as I was previously.

[Iecerint]

Well, that doesn't mean that I didn't find your Amrun-Nuwen linkages aggressively scummy.

[Iecerint]

I'll catch up in my games tomorrow.

[Iecerint]

CES, what is your read on Nuwen?

[Iecerint]

That's nice, but I'm asking CES.

[Iecerint]

I personally find her recent back-and-forth with Beethoven to be extremely contrived, but YMMV.

[Iecerint]

Well, there was no guarantee that the Axxle wagon would take off the way he did. It was expressed as being in the back of everyone's head, she made a post, and then the entire game joined it. It could have been intended as an earnest alternavote. But that part is a good point and I think you are townier for making it.

Reck is obvtown so any concerns about Reck's alignment are silly.

[Iecerint]

well I don't think he is obvtown so to me they are very germane

Then I am pleased to have provided new and excited revelations.

[Iecerint]

Gosh I am so bad at English today.

[Iecerint]

I would go for CDB rather than Triforce, but I will be skeptical of Triforce if they don't wow me, say, D3.

[Iecerint]

Nuwen I actually thought that post was real until I read it twice. Bravo.

I actually liked it but I only read it once so what is the bad part?

[Iecerint]

Also holy shit I thought beethoven said mislynch not lynch. Carey on

Pedit the bad part?

I read that post as saying that you thought Nuwen was town making a townpost, but then you reread it and learned that it was all fabricated.

If I interpreted it correctly: What did you notice upon reread?
If I interpreted it incorrectly: What did you actually mean?

[Iecerint]

it looks to me like that triforce head has never fucking played with Iece before

I think that was Glork, right?

Glork and I have played together lots. I've played with singer only once I think. Not sure I've ever played with Quadz, but it's probably happened in hydras or something.

Triforce is for tomorrow I think.

[Iecerint]

I have a particular theory for what's going on with Triforce today. I could be mistaken, but it's enough for me to not want to push them until tomorrow.

My enthusiasm for BB is kind of middling, but I do not have reasons for pushing him back to tomorrow.

[Iecerint]

I have a particular theory for what's going on with Triforce today

False, a cop would have crumbed a result on you - not totally ignored the shit out of you.

Source: I've been a cop before.

-AP

Also Quadz dodging my question is just 'oooHhh I might be a PR so don't question us anymore!'

If you're not going to vote for them, there is no reason to post things like this.

[Iecerint]

Important question though -- iece, were you thinking this too?

Why are you asking me this?

[Iecerint]

Oh shit Amrun asking Iece to reach out an oliver branch, vry drama

We've already had like 5 olive branch moments between D1 and D2.

@ Amrun - I cannot fully answer your question without undermining particular things. But yes, that kind of idea figures into it.

[Iecerint]

Duh.

[Iecerint]

I am entertaining switching to Nuwen.

[Iecerint]

Yeah. Not really entertaining switching to Fate.

[Iecerint]

CES should clarify whether CDB or Triforce is the one reasonable scum.

[Iecerint]

Catching up tomorrow

[Iecerint]

Iecerint, could you explain your early reads on Reck and your take on Frequency's vote-tag blunder.

I think I've basically read Reck as town the entire time AFAICR.

I dunno what you mean by "vote-tags," but the main Frequency event I remember re: me is that he played the noob card pretty unnaturally, which I thought could have been coached by lazy scumfriends pre-game.

[Iecerint]

13) Iecerint - I had him as town for general play. But normally I agree with Iec a whole hell of a lot more than I do this game and that is bugging me.

This reminds me of your earlier posts, where you said you did not like my reads. When I asked which reads (I have given tons), you said that you did not like my scumread on you.

So, like. For the second time, what are the other things you don't agree with?

[Iecerint]

You're fucking around with fire here, boys, because that Grimm/Zdenek slot is town as fuck.

Umm I don't really think anyone thinks Zdenek is scum? They are just investigating?

Please stop overselling this so that I do not overinterpret it.

[Iecerint]

amrun pops into conversations like its her job, amrun is scum

You are bad at mafia if you are not doing this on purpose.

I suspect that you are doing this on purpose because I do not think that you are bad at mafia.

Stop that.

[Iecerint]

Fate's attitude towards me and method of attack is distinctly different than towards axxle. Compare.

[blahblahblah]

That doesn't exist here. Not only that but the auxiliary reason of Fate being happy to lynch axxle, that nuwen and gamma also were on board, isn't present here either.

His recent posts are attempts to fill this gap, but they are poor substitutes for a lack of reasoning earlier.

So, I follow that the "fill the gap" posts are terrible, and I share this feeling, though I had a town read on Fate before that. But I do not understand this "attitude difference" tell when Axxle flipped town. Why would Fatescum have a different approach to mislynching you? Clarify?

[Iecerint]

but aaaactiondan he claimed bulletproof har har hee hoo ha ha

also i'm probably gonna go into a pretty significant amount of detail after work about reads but i have time for a summary now

out of all the people who are actually possible to lynch today actiondan and nuwen are pretty much at the very bottom of the list of people I want dead. If it came between dan and someone i think is really obviously town then i'd probably do dan but im pretty sure thats not actually going to happen. nuwen you get details on after work.

beethoven is also at the bottom there but i don't think he has a chance of getting lynched today but just in case someone wants to try a flash wagon on him or something there ya go.

triforce I do need to reread their more recent stuff but from what I've gotten from them so far I really want them dead. I doubt this'll happen today either because deadline is getting close and if shenanigans happen with them (which they will regardless of their alignment) then it'll just be a clusterfuck that doesn't have a big chance of good things coming out of it.

kk looks a little town and axxle's post on frequency day 1 is pretty likely to be a real tell that exists so I'd rather not lynch him.

CDB lynch>CES lynch for reasons but i'm not actually confident in either of their alignments

I'd bet a moderate pile of money on one of the non-Kublai Khan voters on AD being scum and they're all pretty eurrrrrgh right now (fate, amrun, bbmolla)

but assuming that things keep going as they are now I'm probably going to have to settle for a Trollie vote. There are still the little minor things from him that look town but when I was originally going through his posts to defend him+actiondan a while back I noticed that a lot of the points I originally had for him could pretty easily be coming from scum too, hence why it turned into like 2 mentions of posts and gut in the actual post. His mentions of me aren't actually alignment relevant I think but they're pretty paranoia inducing and I don't think anyone who I want to get lynched more really has a chance of getting noosed today.


Am going to go through Triforce's more recent posts after work and see if there's anything in there that would be worth pushing harder or something that actually looks town but I doubt there'll be something either strong enough to convince other people to jump on or something new that couldn't real easily be coming from them as either alignment.

This post starts with the flavor of "I'm gonna have a big pile of interesting reads, and Nuwen is smack-dap at the least interesting side of it depending upon your POV!" But then it looks like you basically don't really have strong reads on anyone and the main point of this post is that you will settle for lynching Trollie, but you kind of maybe think that people voting for AD are scum?

[Iecerint]

CES should clarify whether CDB or Triforce is the one reasonable scum.

Also, I think CES skipped this. In fact, I think the only post by CES I noticed was one where he complained about someone else (Trollie?) neglecting to answer his own question.

(I agree with Gamma that CDB is probably more suspect than CES.)

[Iecerint]

Vote: Nuwen
FoS: BBMolla

It will be 2009 for the rest of this game for me.

[Iecerint]

Oh, you're right:

CES should clarify whether CDB or Triforce is the one reasonable scum.

Why?

Because I want to know the answer, and also see whether you actually HAVE an answer.

God, I want to lynch this just so that this ridiculous behavior will not go unpunished.

[Iecerint]

2009?

FoS reference. I haven't really wanted to use one in my entire life, and I haven't seen them used since forever ago.

[Iecerint]

I have little interest in answering questions just so you can feel you tried to scumhunt me. If you were interested in my read on Channel, that'd be another story.

@Someone who is not voting productively and is not sure who to vote

: please vote for CES.

[Iecerint]

This post starts with the flavor of "I'm gonna have a big pile of interesting reads, and Nuwen is smack-dap at the least interesting side of it depending upon your POV!" But then it looks like you basically don't really have strong reads on anyone and the main point of this post is that you will settle for lynching Trollie, but you kind of maybe think that people voting for AD are scum?

The nuwen and AD reads are for kinda weird reasons but I am pretty confident in them being town. I just don't actually have time to go into it while at work. the rest is fairly accurate with that exception except I don't really get what you mean with post flavor and nuwen being the least interesting.

Meaning that Nuwen is the least-likely scum IYO. That was kinda written unclearly. First I had least-interesting, but then I realized that strong town reads are kind of interesting, so then I added the POV bit as a patch, but it just ended up being confusing.

Flavor just meaning the sense of what you were setting up in the first sentences of the post.

[Iecerint]

Normally when town people are pleased that player X is posting more, it is because player X was formerly a middling scum read or null read and the extra content made it into a town read.

I actually think that Amrun is town, but I do think that the above is true and it is different from what Amrun is claiming about her intentions AFAICT.

[Iecerint]

OK.

[Iecerint]

Which CES post are you talking about?

[Iecerint]

OK, well, you're just incorrect, then. That is an extremely scummy post.

[Iecerint]

I had actually forgotten about that post until just now.

[Iecerint]

I think the intent of the post was to demotivate everyone and call attention to the fact that Axxle flipped town over the positive energy (dunno what else to call it) that happened D1.

I could buy another intent if CES actually took a lead and tried to do real things subsequent to that, but he didn't, at least not that I can recall.

The only reason this doesn't make me vote CES forever and never unvote is that CES is a grouchy man.

[Iecerint]

Your insight was "everyone played poorly yesterday, so there is no reason to even worry about why DGB was killed."

[Iecerint]

Zdenek, what exactly was your point against Amrun re "a+ posting Reck" if not buddying?

I think it's strange that she complimented the posting of someone she is scum reading.

This.

As I understand it, her response explanation was that her "compliment" was really just designed to encourage Reck to keep posting, regardless of how she felt about his posts.

[Iecerint]

Willing to lynch Zdenek. Dont even really care if hes town but he probably isnt.

I think Zdenek's point was actually pretty good?

[Iecerint]

I assume there was a point to you caring?

AP, it is unnatural to "like" posts that you find scummy. It requires deception to say that.

Amrun's explanation is basically that there WAS deception, but it was that she wanted a player who made her suspicious to be motivated to keep providing content (e.g., because he might slip), so it was townie deception.

[Iecerint]

4 days to deadline.

Time for Triforce to vote someone and do something today.

[Iecerint]

Not the post in particular, but Reck in general.

[Iecerint]

I guess maybe he overstated it a little bit, but you can at least follow the logic, is my point.

[Iecerint]

I don't particularly think that either of you are scum at this point. At a push I would vote Trollie, but I would rather lynch Nuwen, who posts things like this:

Gamma, I think Triforce's non-cooperation and anger are symptoms of pride abused rather than scum at this point. I just don't see the scum play being so openly hostile D1 / uncooperative now.

[Iecerint]

I don't particularly think that either of you are scum at this point. At a push I would vote Trollie, but I would rather lynch Nuwen, who posts things like this:

Gamma, I think Triforce's non-cooperation and anger are symptoms of pride abused rather than scum at this point. I just don't see the scum play being so openly hostile D1 / uncooperative now.

When you want people to not kill you, the last thing you should do is be an asshole. If you honestly think anger and dickishness are part of Triforce's ULTIMATE SCUM PLAN, you should vote for them instead of trying to build a case against me.

I definitely agree that Triforce have played a self-preservation game D2. This is kind of transparently not the default town play most of the time, and IMO it's gone overboard even relative to the exceptions to that rule.

Setting up a second mislynch based on a coming mislynch is pretty standard scumplay, too.

"Anger and dickishness" has nothing to do with their D2 play at all, and I don't think it's that accurate re: their D1 play, either.

But more than Triforce, I think it's your post that's the more troubling, because none of the above points are particularly involved.

Pedit: Welp, not obvious to see to me. Unless you're intimating that her "revelation" about BB and Trollie was secretly a breadcrumb, which would be

No need to clarify.

[Iecerint]

You two should use fewer relative pronouns.

[Iecerint]

Also

Setting up a second mislynch based on a coming mislynch is pretty standard scumplay, too.

Who is doing this and to whom?

Given scumTriforce, Triforce was doing this to me preparing for the Axxle town-flip.

Relevant because Nuwen said that your anger and dicks meant that you were town (??), but there are totally salient alternative explanations for your D1 behavior from a neutral POV.

[Iecerint]

That is, I am bringing it up mainly because Nuwen's point does not make sense.

I am ambivalent about your alignment.

[Iecerint]

Iec, if you want to go for Nuwen, fuck yeah because she and Reck are by far our biggest scum reads.

Why not just vote Nuwen with me? <3

I know that Beethoven is a little sketch, but it's for a good cause.

[Iecerint]

Trollie and Zdenek should make better use of their votes.

ActionDan should not vote for Kublai Khan because it ain't happenin and I'm not really convinced that he's extra-convinced of KK over other wagons, anyway.

[Iecerint]

Gamma your posts are so good lately.

[Iecerint]

Bases a case for Iecerint being scum base on Nuwen being town.

If they no longer think I'm scum, it stands to reason that they could have also changed their perspective on Nuwen.

@Beethoven sometime in the middle of today.

[Iecerint]

Triforce, when did your perspective on me change?

[Iecerint]

(Same with current Nuwen suspicion)

[Iecerint]

I dislike both wagons.

I will vote Trollie to avoid a NL. I will not vote Dan to avoid a NL.

[Iecerint]

vote Fate

He claimed in our QT that he neighborized me, which made me think he was town because he knows I can read him in a one on one setting. But he lied about that, Trollie neighborized us. And he now refuses to claim to me in our QT.

SO HE DIES.

Unvote; Vote: Fate

[Iecerint]

(I don't particularly care for this discussion about what you claimed in your neighborhood. If Reck got all confused and somehow trollie flipped scum then more power to you, since you could have reasonable proof that Reck was town)

Huh?

[Iecerint]

1542 is a pretty scummy post.

[Iecerint]

why arent we entertaining an iec lynch?

Why are you entertaining a Iec lynch?

[Iecerint]

anyone who blindly accepted reckoner's Fate case i feel should be considered possible scum. Iec i dont think would get on that wagon the way he did as town without first asking for some clarification.

Reckoner's Fate case was pretty clear/cut and warranted a vote. Either Fate would deny it and lead to a great 1/1, or he would have an alternate explanation that would provide good information.

As is, Reckoner's case was basically accurate, and Fate's counter-arguments are "I did it for the lulz" and "that is too dumb for scum."

Which, those could be the case, though it kind of just makes me want to kill him even more.

Pedit Yes, they rhyme.

[Iecerint]

My favorite flashwagon right now is CDB.

[Iecerint]

Unvote; Vote: CDB

[Iecerint]

So yeah iece, if you believed that trash get ready to be embarassed post game when the qt is released ;D

Hmm? But...you already said that it happened...so...? XD

[Iecerint]

I think Nuwen is extremely scummy, but i am hesitantly to lynch a claimed cop prematurely.

[Iecerint]

Well, the fact that she is a 1-shot weird cop makes me more OK with deviant behavior than I would ordinarily be, I will admit.

[Iecerint]

^wasn't that because of nuwen's breadcrumb that he thought was about fate

[Iecerint]

^ Read "actually viable scum wagons" as "ActionDan".

Townreads: KK, CES, CDB, Reckoner, Molla (where you at? : ( )
Weaker Townreads: Fate, Amrun, Matt, Iec, Gamma?

Potentially willing to lynch anyone not listed above ^.

Why the hell do you have a town read, let alone a strong town read, on CDB?

[Iecerint]

Yeah I mean they just claimed limited investigative. Which is basically the same thing that Nuwen did. So.

[Iecerint]

What is the relevance of the Shadow Hunters game? Is the implication that Nuwen's unclaimed rolename might be related to that?

[Iecerint]

Anyway, the point was that I was agreeing with you re: "counterclaiming but not really counterclaiming."

[Iecerint]

Uh, so why not just go ahead and claim outright?

[Iecerint]

Meh, don't answer that.

[Iecerint]

Dan had already picked up on her claim before that, so it looks legit to me.

But scum probably have daytalk since you and reck do.

But it's probably still legit.

[Iecerint]

Oh god can we please lynch him.

[Iecerint]

Please kill that man.

[Iecerint]

I do not understand why the clusterfucks are more likely to be scum?

I mean I think AD is town, and AD is confirming Nuwen or something. Nuwen is a claimed shit cop.

In a game this size, there is more than a shit cop. So Triforce as another shit cop makes sense.

Neighborizing Fate and reck N1 is a decent enough towntell for Trollie (cuz it means he probably didn't do the kill and it's a kinda useless ability, but scum may just have a goon, anyway), but it's weaker than the above.

So someone like CDB, who didn't play the day and just kind of let this happen, makes a lot of sense as scum.

[Iecerint]

Probably you would have played the game and tried to find scums rather than being all OMG THIS GAME JUST IS SO DIFFICULT *CRIES* THAT'S WHY IM NOT POSTIN ^ A STORM!!!

[Iecerint]

I mean, Iecerint, if I were scum "letting this happen", wouldn't I continue to let it happen and then just start apologising again Tomorrow? Isn't it obvious that I'm picking things up when shutting up more would, by your reckoning, be more productive?

From my POV, a lot of the would-be wagons are degenerating and the current situation is very volatile. Any number of flashwagons could be viable. Hence, your activity might have become warranted.

It will be easier to judge the specifics of this with flips.