The Walking Dead Mafia! ( Game Over )

[Toogeloo]

MattP Merle Dixon confirmed?

Where's my Glen at? If you claim Glen now, I'll love you forever and give you total town points.

[Toogeloo]

I just realized that technically the zombie mechanic is a threat to the town, and as such, any strict interpretation of our wincon can only translate into Venmar's Troll-The-Town game.

I'm assuming the Mafia isn't immune to the Horde. Horde is like an unkillable third party. Mafia will probably be roles like the Governor and possibly Shane.

[Toogeloo]

Fuck it... let's start the game off with a bang!

[b}Vote: MattP[/b]

[Toogeloo]

Vote: MattP

[Toogeloo]

I will policy lynch the shit out of you next day phase if that's the hammer.

Get in line. I'm sure there's a wait.

[Toogeloo]

No one claiming Glenn yet? I'm sad. No Town points for anyone yet.

[Toogeloo]

Because I don't see scum that knows what they're doing trying something like that. If it were a scum move, it'd be a scum move by newbie scum that saw a more experienced scum pull off something similar before. MattP does not fall under this category.

Erm... no?

Newbie scum play safe games, try to stay out of the lime light, etc.
Pro scum try gambits that will excuse the reason they are still alive later in the game when they are normally night killed early on.

[Toogeloo]

Toggers goes tomorrow

At least spell it right.


So your #3 is self contradictory? You state scum knowing what they are doing don't pull moves like that, yet you say newbie scum who see experienced scum do it will try it.

[Toogeloo]

I haven't seen the show past the exploding lab can anyone elaborate on if there's a second batch of humans that could be considered "scum"?

Merle Dixon could be either Miller, Godfather, or Hated Townie type roles if he has a power. He's fairly antagonistic to the main group, but ends up doing the right thing and fighting for their side.

Shane Walsh is the primary antagonist in the second season. If he's town, I'd be surprised.

The Governor is the primary antagonist in the third season. If he's town, I'd be surprised.

There are plenty of side or tertiary characters that could also be scum, like Martinez (Governor's Enforcer) or Randall (Bandit type character that is captured in the second season).

[Toogeloo]

I'm not sure if you're deliberately misconstruing what I'm saying or if you're just fucking retarded.

I've been known to be/do both.

[Toogeloo]

But do you do the former as town?

I can be fairly antagonistic. But I read it one way and you are saying it's something else I guess. Could be lost in translation reading it since you think you are conveying it one way but I see it being delivered a different way.

[Toogeloo]

Toogeloo gets to be town as well! For now, at least. I will probably get paranoid and mislynch him in endgame, though. Ha.

Is this a perspective slip

[Toogeloo]

If it were a scum move, it'd be a scum move by newbie scum that saw a more experienced scum pull off something similar before.

Because it couldn't possibly, you know, be the experienced scum who just pulled this shit off that this hypothetical newbscum comes along later to immolate.

VOTE: MAJIFFY

Yeah, I don't think Jiffy wants to explain this again after he just said I refarted all over it.


Also...
I think sangres is town.

[Toogeloo]

You know the flavor of the show Amrun?

[Toogeloo]

I'll love you forever

I'm Maggie Greene.

[Toogeloo]

Not seeking a Mason partner btw, just wanted a way to break some ice. Hell, you could have Gleen on your scum safe list. Doesn't matter. First day of the game, was willing to give any person who claimed Glenn a pass just because my role was Maggie.

[Toogeloo]

Amrun, you flavor claimed. Your role couldn't possibly be better than my role!

TOWN Glenn's Ho.

[Toogeloo]

Funny that StupdendousKey is just like...

*hands in the air*

"What~EVER~!~"

(Screw you guys, I'm going home).

Unvote;
Vote: StupendousKey

[Toogeloo]

We are gonna scare off the 7 players who haven't posted yet with all these pages lol.

[Toogeloo]

k call me after 4 votes
I don't want to read this

Or you could just vote him now and read the game during night phase, unless you'll be too busy in scum chat.

[Toogeloo]

dgb might be scum

y

I was kinda getting the same impression.

That whole "Toogs is scummy and probably a lyncher type role" comment just comes off as a way to paint me negatively later if scum kill Amrun and then say I am a "Vigger" or something that has to kill a specific player.

Well, I gots your back Ammy.

[Toogeloo]

Tell me this, Toogs, if you're not some third party bullshit, why do you care about Glenn?

Because Glenn and Maggie on the show is soooo~oooo cute.

[Toogeloo]

Looking at motivation here. I see no town motivation. I see exactly what he alluded to ~ gambit. It works to give him town cred while at the same time looking for (and finding?) a PR for NK. Claim yourself is fine, stupid IMO, but fine. Coaxing someone who could easily not be vanilla to do the same...nah. Why isn't this a hot topic?

Cuz there's no scum motivation either? You might be on to something with coaxing someone to claim their flavor though.... hmmm.

[Toogeloo]

what prompted the claims

I asked.

...nicely.

[Toogeloo]

Vote: waynegg

Gettin' da bahd mojo vibes, mon!



His vote analysis followed by a vote on someone who didn't vote SK (and is instead voting the player based on meta) is pretty bad. I also don't like that he says he considers that the town is easily led because of the SK lynch, but then does not follow up on it, since if we are easily led, he should be looking at the people who pushed the SK lynch. So, despite having 7 players as shit/scum in his vote analysis after he claims that town is being led around to lynch, he opts to vote someone else because of a meta in their playstyle? Does not compute.

The SK lynch (and the 30 pages of game) happened in one day. Consider it also took 12 players to lynch, and we got the wagon to near fruition with 7 players who hadn't even shown up yet, one of which flipped scum at the beginning of this day. Isn't it far more plausible then that Town has strong personalities, wanted a fast day, and scum took advantage or were caught off guard?


If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say anyone with 60 posts or more has a stronger chance to be town than scum mainly considering what we pulled off in a single day.

[Toogeloo]

No, I'm pretty sure he means my other play makes me town, my claim has nothing to do with it.

Unvote: waynegg
Vote: John Doe

Hadn't realized he was part of the hydra until I reread what was going on.

[Toogeloo]

You do realize this game reached 30 pages in a day, GIF posted a couple times in the first two pages, then came back and the game was 600 posts later. How can he possibly white knight any slot without knowing what's going on? He even asks why SK was scum, and mentions that slips made like SK aren't usually that blatant.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote

From a flavor perspective, I can totally see Shane as a Serial Killer, and the Gov'nuh and his cronies as the Mafia. The Governor's crew aren't stealthy, they fight with guns, and they outright shoot their enemies. Shane was more of the crazy and kill them in quiet type. He killed Otis and said the zombies ate him, he took Randall into the forest and broke his neck, and he tried to get Rick alone and kill him in quiet as well. I'd say smothering with a pillow represents a player that is on the inside with the players and killing via stealth. Now all this being said, Venny already stated that flavor isn't indicative of anything, but I highly doubt he would say that chesskid got munched on by Walkers but really was a Vig shot. From a setup perspective, outside of Rick, the only characters I could logically see as Vigs are Daryl and Michonne, and considering their weapons (and again, I know it's only flavor) I don't think either would suffocate a player with a pillow or shoot them through the head with a bullet.

Shane as SK and Gov Mafia makes the most sense to me at the moment.


I don't quite have the trust MattP seems to have with the vocal town bloc. None of the three slots he's included have given me 'def-town' vibes. I'd say Sugar Cain > NBH > MattP at the moment since I could still totally see ScuMattP pulling the WIFOM card that he wouldn't do Hated Townie as Scum and everyone believing it. He was also the predominant driving force behind SK's lynch, constantly reinforcing it to everyone as they popped in. He's never really made up the town points. I don't hate him as scum though either because I feel he's too vocal to be for sure scum. It might be confidence in his ability to be charismatic, but I just don't see scum being one of the highest post count players and doing a lot of traffic directing without eventually drawing attention to themselves down the road.

John's (wayne in particular) anger feels genuine. Not worth my vote at the moment.

There are some players I want more attention on though... namely Red Coyote and Ellibereth. Ellibereth in particular needs more attention. I do not know Elli's town game, but I do know that in Magician's Mafia, Elli hardly posted ever, and was fairly anti-town as scum, with many of his postings very similar in vibe to his end of Day 1 yesterday. I'd like to make sure Elli doesn't escape notice.

I am more inclined to vote Pitoli over OGML if I need to choose between those wagons, just fyi.

Vote: Ellibereth

PEdit: Also, this game is moving way too fast. I pretty much only skimmed the last 15 pages. There were 21 more posts added after I hit Preview Post button.

[Toogeloo]

Behold, a 101 in flawed, linear thinking

A character that actually believes having a wrong read and pushing it to fruition is a generally scummy thing rather than trying to decipher whether I actually believed SK was scum

It didn't earn you town points, if that's what you are referring to.

I was simply arguing that your town bloc of 3 isn't all that townie in my eyes, yet you are highly encouraging them (and I assume most on-lookers) to trust the three of you implicitly in our hunt for scum. Not something I am willing to trust just yet.

[Toogeloo]

And yet, you don't have to trust us. The purpose of what I did was because I think brains and sugar are town. Those are MY reads, and I want to work with them. You don't have to work with us.

But see, you can't lynch someone with 3 votes alone, however, representing the vocal majority, it's easier to sway the lower post count players, especially those too lazy to read up.

Look how easy it was to convince Amrun to jump around with her votes.

[Toogeloo]

Why are people ignoring Ellibereth and his anti-town day 1 and lack of wild appearance today ?

I feel like, with 20 players in the game, conversations have been saturated on like 4 of them. I nearly had an aneurysm reading 20 pages of John Doe or OGML are scum more votes pl0x posts.

[Toogeloo]

Okay so first of all I'm guessing that Elli AND AD are scum. They would have more fun as scum together and I'm pretty sure they would've talked about the quickhammer gambit in thread instead of letting chesskid goad them into it after Elli already promised the quickhammer and AD declared intent to hammer.

<Snipped stuff not relating to Elli/Dan>

Why are people ignoring Ellibereth and his anti-town day 1 and lack of wild appearance today ?

I feel like, with 20 players in the game, conversations have been saturated on like 4 of them. I nearly had an aneurysm reading 20 pages of John Doe or OGML are scum more votes pl0x posts.

cos he's town

What's going on here, sangres? In the same post, you say Elli and AD are scum together, but then later you say Elli is town.

Then you post this:

I won't vote RedCoyote, NBH, ActionDan, MattP, and Sugar Cain in that list meaning our pool is looking more like:

PV, mastin2, AJ, Ellibereth, GiF. Don't want to vote Ellibereth that much today but he has to do something soon. I'll talk it over with ffery later and get back to you with a nice healthy wagon.

Claiming ActionDan town, and considering Elli scum now but not wanting to vote him.

Unvote;
Vote: sangres

[Toogeloo]

I don't see how someone who's town's reads can change so drastically back and forth over a couple posts. I mean he literally goes Elli is scum to Elli is town in the same post, then back to Elli is possible scum again. I'm assuming Nacho doesn't have short term amnesia, so this looks really bad imo.

[Toogeloo]

MattP, thoughts on my argument towards sangres?

[Toogeloo]

silence noted...

[Toogeloo]

least you coulda done was answer the question Mr. Snarkypants.

[Toogeloo]

[Toogeloo]

No one has had anything to say about my vote switch to sangres and the reasoning? Are people actively ignoring, or what?

I'll switch back to Elli for now, but still want people to at least confirm what I saw, or refute it.

Unvote;
Vote: Ellibereth

trololol right back at ya.

[Toogeloo]

Let's say someone had meta on a player that White Knights as town, but didn't White Knight this game, what's your opinion on that?

[Toogeloo]

It's ok Elli. We could just lynch you and save you the trouble. Why don't you just disappear for a while and give more people an excuse to vote you.

[Toogeloo]

GiF: I give you Exhibit A

[Toogeloo]

Because apparently one of either waynegg or Titus perspective slipped that TF was a scum kill that OGML pointed out, and it was one of your hydra players that pointed out that OGML was actually the one who slipped.

[Toogeloo]

Honestly, why don't we just have Titus state yes or no if he was responsible for the Majiffy kill at this point. I know one of the No Brains slot told him not to claim it, but doesn't most of the argument on both sides hinge on whether or not Titus' slot killed someone that night, and he's already claimed to have not killed Trust Fund.

[Toogeloo]

That's a Wayne Post. Why should I claim now? I can say what he would have said but I don't really feel like claiming ATM. I'm not going to claim solely because someone says I should.

The sooner you claim, the better, unless your plan is to just amass more votes and be lynched. Not claiming denies us information to work with that could potentially change the direction of the lynch. Consider your options at the moment, and play to your wincon, which if it's scum, continue not claiming I guess.

[Toogeloo]

I am all sorts of confused as to what just transpired over the last 10 pages.

What I don't understand is how Michonne is a vig that "herds" Walkers. For one, if she is a Vig, why wouldn't she just use her Katana? For two, she kept walkers with her, but she destroyed their capability of attacking other players.

NBH, I would very much like a full role claim. Are you labeled as a Vigilante specifically, or do you have a different role name? If you aren't a Vig, and pretty much just influence the mechanic, what makes you feel that an actual Vig can't exist?

[Toogeloo]

Also... my two cents on the Merle Dixon and Morales claims.

Merle Dixon would not be the first person I think of when I think Vig, but it's not implausible since he has little issues with killing, and he's quite proficient at it. He does fight for the right side when he dies, but he spends most of the series absolutely despised by everyone, so it's hard to just accept he's aligned with town no strings attached.

Morales is a pretty bland character and a pretty easy Vanilla to accept. Considering we had Oscar flip already and he was just as unmemorable if not more so, it's fairly easy to accept the claim. That being said, unmemorable characters make great vanillas and are easy to fake claim.


P-Edit: That doesn't answer the question and you know it DGB. If you manipulate the mechanic, that doesn't make you a vig, so again... Is your role labeled as Vigilante, or no?

[Toogeloo]

Oscar and Shumpert are very much Vanillas in the show. Morales (Titus' claim) would also very much be a Vanilla.

Andrea as a Vanilla is more funny than true, but very plausible by host discretion. In the GNs, Andrea is a bad-ass, but in the show, she was quite dull and generally despised by fairly vocal fan base. Being a Vanilla makes it somewhat funny to me.

Rick as a power role is important. Why he's a Redirector, I wouldn't know for sure, an argument could probably be made for it for sure, but it's more important that he's a power role. The Series is mostly focused around him, so he should have power.

[Toogeloo]

<= Has seen all 3 seasons multiple times btw, and just started collecting the graphic novels.

[Toogeloo]

DGB - claimed a way to manipulate the mechanic and took credit for it killing chesskid.
Matt - faked that he was vig because he thought DGB was actually the vig. He later reneged the claim and stated it was false.
OGML - the only "actual" claimed Vig. Claims to have shot Jiffy.

[Toogeloo]

Anyways, if I'm right, both NBH and OGML are at least for sure not-mafia.

From everyone who doesn't have or know about the ability to herd zombies, we all just assumed chesskid was a victim of the RNG mechanic. So OGML discounts that death and knows his own kill on Majiffy and how it happened. So he sees what he believes is a perspective slip from Titus' slot, and goes for it.

NBH has their own bias because they believe the herd mechanic is basically town's vig power. They know they had a direct hand in chesskid's death, and therefore feel the other two deaths are anti-town related. They see OGML's attack as a reverse perspective slip and go for OGML's throat not realizing that OGML has an actual perspective on the situation.

The only player who doesn't escape from this cleanly is Titus, and whether or not their claim that the Trust Fund kill was the Mafia kill was a perspective slip or not.


I am confident enough to assume that NBH, OGML, Amrun, and MattP are all for sure town thanks to this whole clusterfuck ordeal (I might have a little bias towards Amrun because of the Glenn claim).

[Toogeloo]

I have been wondering if the "hey your target may not always get killed!" has something to do with a hidden mechanic

This.

What makes you so certain you are the only player with a variation of this role?

It's my guess that there are several players who manipulate the horde, and that instead of RNGing out of 23 players, it actually only RNGs out of the targets that the players with the manipulating power choose. The mechanic states that anywhere between 0-2 kills will happen from walkers every night, so "Your target may not always get killed," thing is reiterating the mechanic itself as well as the possibility that someone else's manipulation beat your own.


I'd agree with you that Michonne is a badass with a sword, and would make a good vig, but Merle is just as good if not more proficient at killing, so he makes sense as well. Traitor from a flavor perspective doesn't really make sense since he antagonistic to the core group the entire show, and then finally comes around to their side after the Governor tries to make him kill his brother. So unless he's a Mafia traitor, I just don't see it flavorly speaking. However, what I could see from flavor is that Merle is always aligned with Mafia and OGML just claimed his actual flavor, but instead of a town wincon, he has a mafia one. Do I think this is the case, though? No, I do not.


I have no desire to lynch OGML or NBH because they are not direct CCs of each other.

[Toogeloo]

NBH - Claimed to have manipulated the Horde into killing chesskid.
OGML - Claimed to have killed Majiffy.
Mafia - Apparently killed Trust Fund (last kill remaining).

[Toogeloo]

Also, can I just say how funny it is that Michonne and Merle are at each others throats in this game, just like the show. I wouldn't be totally surprised if Michonne was a lyncher trying to lynch Merle.

[Toogeloo]

that is exactly what I am saying.

you said earlier in the day round that the rifleshot was most likely the govner and the SK could be shane. are you backpedaling on that?

and merle wasn't just antagonistic he outright tried to kill them for the majority of the series. he beat the shit out of glen, fondled maggie, tried to rape and kill michonne. and you now want to change your mind after saying that merle was likely a SK to saying that he is now somehow town aligned. what changed your mind?

I meant a Traitor to the Mafia, as in He leaves the Mafia to join Town, which in this game DNE. I never said Shane was an SK. I said Shane could be a Hated Townie, a Miller, or a Godfather. I said if there was an SK, I would believe it to be Shane. I also said I thought the Majiffy kill was probably Mafia and the Trust Fund kill was probably SK, and explained my reasoning (using flavor) for that some time ago at the beginning of the day.


The only person I have outed on purpose, and for flavor only, was Amrun (Glenn). I feel like you are still obstinately holding on to the idea that you are the only town sided killing mechanic, when in reality, all you are is someone who unreliably manipulates the independent killing mechanic alongside other players who more than likely also do the same thing. Your's is more offensive, but there could just as easily be, I dunno, "Distractors" out there that can use their ability to protect certain players, etc...


You are town, but good lord you can be obstinate. OGML is town as well. He is the actual vig (Third party has no business even worrying about perspective slips or claiming Vig).

MattP is town for his gambit, and he seems like the only other player who "gets it."

Amrun is town cuz she's my Glennie-poo.


I have slight town leans on Desperado, Sugar Cain, GuyInFreezer, and Thor. Good solid base to eliminate and hunt scum out of the remaining players.

Vote: Titus

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP:

I never said

Merle

was an SK. I said

Merle

could be a Hated Townie, a Miller, or a Godfather. I said if there was an SK, I would believe it to be Shane. I also said I thought the Majiffy kill was probably Mafia and the Trust Fund kill was probably SK, and explained my reasoning (using flavor) for that some time ago at the beginning of the day.

[Toogeloo]

so do you believe that shane is a possible SK yes or no? your statements contradict each other. :/

I fixed it in the next post. Merle would not be a Serial Killer in my opinion, Shane would. Or at least, Shane would probably be some anti-town role, be it SK, Mafia, or Survivor. I had guessed Shane for Serial Killer before all the chaos of cross claims last night. If Shane is in the game, I'd wager he's Mafia or Survivor at this point, unless kills overlapped.

This is all flavor speculative though. I gave my town list and am working from there based on play and claims.

P-Edit: You need to stop considering your power as something you can control. You have no power over who gets killed with the walkers, you only influence it. I think the chesskid getting whacked went to your head and you aren't willing to admit you have less power than you think you do.

[Toogeloo]

mett i'm being shot tonight plz be logical ty ;]

why are you worried about being nked when you can just use the hide ability if you are that worried?

OGML has stated his shot penetrates hiding.

[Toogeloo]

why are you misrepping and trying to discredit me?

town already has 2 lynches the day lynch and us or did you forget about the confirmed vig already

You're doing it to yourself. You aren't going to be the continuous cause of a second lynch, nor are you a vig.

[Toogeloo]

mollie, you are ignoring the facts and basing your perception of yourself as more than you are. It's egocentric and misguided. You are town, don't think we are calling you anything less. But you aren't a vig.

[Toogeloo]

also can you clarify as to whether or not you still think the rifleshot was a scum kill and that the suffocation is a sk kill? has this changed? if so, what are you thinking now?

When the day started, I thought the suffocation kill was SK and the Rifle shot was Mafia.
Here is the post:

From a flavor perspective, I can totally see Shane as a Serial Killer, and the Gov'nuh and his cronies as the Mafia. The Governor's crew aren't stealthy, they fight with guns, and they outright shoot their enemies. Shane was more of the crazy and kill them in quiet type. He killed Otis and said the zombies ate him, he took Randall into the forest and broke his neck, and he tried to get Rick alone and kill him in quiet as well. I'd say smothering with a pillow represents a player that is on the inside with the players and killing via stealth. Now all this being said, Venny already stated that flavor isn't indicative of anything, but I highly doubt he would say that chesskid got munched on by Walkers but really was a Vig shot. From a setup perspective, outside of Rick, the only characters I could logically see as Vigs are Daryl and Michonne, and considering their weapons (and again, I know it's only flavor) I don't think either would suffocate a player with a pillow or shoot them through the head with a bullet.

Shane as SK and Gov Mafia makes the most sense to me at the moment.

This was before any claims.


Since then, OGML and yourself have claimed and shed light on the overall mechanic of the game and some setup spec. With OGML's vig claim to have shot Majiffy, then my previous flavor assessment of the kills is now thrown out the window. Trust Fund was the Mafia kill, not the SK kill. Also, the chesskid kill was not as random as I'm sure most of us (including myself) had considered. The mechanic does state 0-2 players can die to zombies each night, and that it's random, though not as random as we might think. Your role opens up the avenue of thought that there are players who influence where the zombies will strike in particular, but it's highly illogical to assume you are the only player who does this since the mechanic openly states that no one player or faction monopolizes the ability to influence the zombies. Therefore, it's just as likely that the mafia faction has roles that influence the walkers, and there are likely another town or two who could as well. This means that in likelihood, instead of randoming between 22 different targets last night, it was narrowed down to maybe a handful. The fact that chesskid bit it (or got bit), more than likely went to your head, making you feel as if you were the sole proprietor of walker influence, when it's more logical to suspect that your random number was chosen for the walkers to attack.

With the claims, and the analysis of perception on the kills, it almost assures that both you and OGML are town, and Titus' slip is indeed a real potential slip.


P-Edit: I have a suspicion that you aren't very up to date on the last several pages at this point, mollie. Frustration is bound to happen if you aren't actually paying attention to what's been transpiring. OGML threatened to kill Sangres tonight, not last night. He killed Majiffy because he didn't like how fast the thread was moving, suspected a vocal player was scum, and took a shot at who he considered the scummiest. He's threatening to shoot sangres tonight due to sangres' actions today.

[Toogeloo]

For our replacements, "The Walking Dead Mafia! Abridged Version."

Day 1 starts, MattP claims Hated Townie with a Lynch threshold of 2. Thor votes, then Toog (me) votes to hammer. MattP says, "lol, I was just kidding," and reads from the fake claim ensue. Toog (me) asks who Glenn is in the game, shortly after Amrun says she is and asks why, to which Toog (me) replies no reason but to break ice, which frustrates Amrun. Toog claims Maggie. Day 1 hits 30 pages in like 12 hours, during which conversation is mostly centered on pushing StupendousKey lynch and a variety of people giving reads on other players. Some people don't show up, or have very minimal posts during this time, including ActionDan, PeregrineV, Red Coyote, Ellibereth, chesskid, GuyInFreezer, OhGodMyLife, and a few others. Ellibereth claims to want to hammer, a few more votes eventually happen, Elli hammers. SK flips Oscar, Vanilla Townie.

Day 2 starts, Trust Fund (VT), chesskid (Goon), and Majiffy (Town Redirector) all dead. Titus slot does some analysis on the terribad SK lynch, but votes GuyInFreezer (who wasn't on the lynch) and also speculates on the kills, stating the Trust Fund kill was Mafia shot. OGML states the perspective slip and votes Titus' slot. No Brains states the reverse perspective slip on OGML, stating OGML doesn't take into consideration Titus might be a Vig and have knowledge. People vote Titus slot, half the hydra gets bent out of shape and is subsequently ejected from the game. Thor comes in, suddenly people don't like Thor for a variety of reasons. An Elli push starts due to Elli's bad play overall, Elli laughs at it. OGML claims Vig who killed Majiffy (for posting too much and looking scummy day 1), and pushes Titus harder. Titus claims Morales, Vanilla Townie. No Brains laughs, asks more votes on OGML. MattP claims Vig, chaos ensues. No Brains then claims Vig. MattP says his claim was fake because he knew No Brains was Vig and he was trying to protect their claim. No Brains states the specifics of their role, which turns out to not be a Vig at all, but a role that influences the walker kills at night. No Brains argues semantics that their role is a Vig, others try to correct No Brains and state how the mechanic works and other players can influence walkers as well.


You are now more or less caught up on the major events of the game. Feel free to continue reading though.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: When No Brains claimed Vig, they also claimed responsibility for killing chesskid.

[Toogeloo]

Oh, and...

Unvote;
Vote: Ellibereth

We can give Titus a day I suppose. At least he's talking.

[Toogeloo]

If you are looking for people to sheep, I would suggest MattP, OGML, Desperado, or Amrun. No Brains is pretty much conf-town, but they have a really bad tunnel problem. Everyone else listed is more or less a strong chance at being town based on reactions and overall play.

[Toogeloo]

I think suffocating someone is just as generic a killing flavor as shooting someone through the head. If anyone was going to suffocate another player though, it'd probably be more likely to be done by the Governor or Shane, or possibly Milton, if we are talking strictly from a flavor perspective since Shumpert and Martinez are mostly always seen using automatic weapons.

Speaking of which... Jury is still out on Milton even being a Mafiosi too. He's not a bad guy, he doesn't agree with the Governor or his use of Walkers, he tries to save Andrea, he burns up all of Woodbury's walker supplies, and he is more or less similar to Merle in terms of redemption.

Flavor Spec is fun, but generally fruitless of course.

[Toogeloo]

Mafia Types (imho).

The Governor - Leader or Woodbury, primary Season 3 Antagonist
Shane - Rick's best friend, driven insane due to jealousy over wanting Rick's wife, and the primary antagonist in Season's 1 and 2 (less so in 1).
Martinez - The Governor's Right Hand man and Enforcer.
Shumpert - The Governor's Left Hand man and Enforcer.
Tomas - Inmate who tried to kill Rick to take their supplies and take the Prison as their own with the other inmates.
Andrew - Inmate who was allied with Tomas. He escapes after Tomas is killed, and is responsible for breaking the security of the prison which ends up killing T-Dog and Lori.

Milton - Wild Card. He's technically allied with the Governor, mostly a sciencey geeky type. He finds redemption in the end and betrays the Governor in every way he can and is killed by the Governor.
Merle - Wild Card. He just wants to survive and be where the greatest chance of that happening is. He is an antagonist for the core group through Season 1 and 3, ends up helping them and dying for them.


Considering that OGML claimed Merle, and I believe his claim, I think it's safe to say he isn't allied with the Mafia.

I'd say it's possible any of the Inmates could also suffocate a player, but most of them had slashing weapons like axes and such.

[Toogeloo]

From a Mafia group perspective, I really don't know. Hence the reason I thought the suffocation was Serial Killer flavor when day broke. Most mafia games tend to have the mafia "shoot" someone, Serial Killers tend to use knives, but suffocation seemed like it could make sense as well. After the claims though, the Suffocation kill became the known Mafia kill, so not entirely sure who or why the Mafia group suffocates their victims. It might be possible that it's just the flavor because it's supposed to be the "hidden" kill since Vigs don't typically hide and Mafia do, so it was supposed to be more stealthy since flavorly speaking, we are all together in one place, not Prison v. Woodbury taking pot shots at each other.

P-Edit: No, I have No Brains as town, with a bad tunnel complex. And you have to remember, No Brains claimed to be a Vig when they first claimed. It took pages of posts before dots were connected that they weren't actually a vig. Even still, they occasionally refer to themselves as a vig. I tried to be as accurate when it came to the fine details in the abridged version as I could, and I also tried not to be biased as best as possible. You adding your reasoning for the GiF vote makes it just as biased though.

[Toogeloo]

@Mod: Gonna be limited access for about a week. I still have access to internet though, but just noting it.

[Toogeloo]

@Mod: Gonna be limited access for about a week. I still have access to internet though, but just noting it.

[Toogeloo]

Do you think it's multi-ball then?

My assumption at this point is that Shane and the Inmates are all part of the Governor's group of Mafia team.

[Toogeloo]

x

Hold up. Why you mentioning multiball.

mollie seems to think that the various antagonists shouldn't be allied together. I would disagree, strictly for balance setup.

From a Mafia group perspective, I really don't know. Hence the reason I thought the suffocation was Serial Killer flavor when day broke. Most mafia games tend to have the mafia "shoot" someone, Serial Killers tend to use knives, but suffocation seemed like it could make sense as well.

After the claims though, the Suffocation kill became the known Mafia kill

, so not entirely sure who or why the Mafia group suffocates their victims.

It might be possible that it's just the flavor because it's supposed to be the "hidden" kill since Vigs don't typically hide and Mafia do, so it was supposed to be more stealthy since flavorly speaking, we are all together in one place, not Prison v. Woodbury taking pot shots at each other

.

P-Edit: No, I have No Brains as town, with a bad tunnel complex. And you have to remember, No Brains claimed to be a Vig when they first claimed. It took pages of posts before dots were connected that they weren't actually a vig. Even still, they occasionally refer to themselves as a vig. I tried to be as accurate when it came to the fine details in the abridged version as I could, and I also tried not to be biased as best as possible. You adding your reasoning for the GiF vote makes it just as biased though.

wrt the bold: I am still trying to make sense that you are jumping to the conclusion that the suffocation kill is the mafia kill.

wrt the italicised: which one do you think is more stealthy and more personal, a rifle shot to the head or a pillow? which one fits the sk modus operandi or one of group scum?

I believe the suffocation is the Mafia kill because I believe OGML is the vig. To believe otherwise would mean that OGML is mafia because he's still claiming the kill on Majiffy, the Rifle shot, and that a mysterious SK assailant is still at large out there.

Do you think it's multi-ball then?

My assumption at this point is that Shane and the Inmates are all part of the Governor's group of Mafia team.

how are you making that out to work in your head?

shane never met the govner nor did the inmates. so how does that work for group scum?

Andrea and Oscar never met each other, and yet they are somehow aligned with town together. You have to suspend a little bit of belief that this Mafia game is going to strictly adhere to the Seasons of the show. Do you have some rationale on it all that you'd prefer to share, mollie?

[Toogeloo]

Hey, don't look at me. I was asking if Mollie was suggesting multiball because she disagreed with me that Shane, the Inmates, and the Guv's crew could all be aligned.

[Toogeloo]

Gotta love hydras.

Head 1: Hey Toog, let's hash out flavor!
Toog: Ok! Here's my flavorful thoughts.
Head 2: GTFO with your flavor spec crap!

[Toogeloo]

I've already stated my reads today. I'm flavor speccing and gpffing off waiting for every one else to get it into gear and wrap this day up.

[Toogeloo]

90 page large game with a dead goon with a handful of posts on a site where you can play multiple games at once?

Yeah, I'd say it's a null tell.

[Toogeloo]

I hope we see walls of insightful reads that you are known for as well!

[Toogeloo]

Yes. Hammer.

Ignoring the claim, Elli hasn't done anything pro-town, and even L-1 still just kinda goofs off. If this is truly his town game, he should be banned, but right now this reminds me of his scum game on magician's mafia.

Claim-wise, I echo the sentiments that his claim makes no sense of Milton's character. Claiming targeting the dead guy is also generally "meh"-worthy since no one can corroboeate it either. I also stated Milton could be a Wild card, and one of the best safe list characters imo since he can be power or Miller or whatever, but also has just as strong a chance at being allied with the Gov too.

I say kill it.

[Toogeloo]

RC has basically been fluffing his way through the day, no different than Elli hadbeen. RC hasn't been purposely anti-town, like Elli, but his play isn't really any different.

I don't give two fucks about the claim being power. Elli essentially popped into the thread and said, "Here's my claim, bye now!" He's had no content at all, and even at L-1, has had no fight to stay alive. This is not playing to a town win condition in any shape or form.

[Toogeloo]

Elli essentially popped into the thread and said, "Here's my claim, bye now!" He's had no content at all, and even at L-1, has had no fight to stay alive.

The "no will to stay alive thing" Is more townish than scummish IMO

There is a difference between frustrated town giving up and someone just not giving a fuck the entire game. Like I said earlier, if Elli is town, he has played so against his wincon, especially as a PR, that I would consider it bannable.

[Toogeloo]

Can we please not get distracted and letI obvscum Elli off the hook? Elli is obviously scum power with that claim. Let's worry about sangres and whether or not he is vigged tomorrow.

[Toogeloo]

Between schizophrenic heads making post accountability near impossible and heads under pressure stalling the game to wait for their partner... I'm really despising hydras.

My cureent preferred lynch order is something like this:
Elli
Aj
Coyote
Dan
sangrea
Sonic

Everyone else is either a town read, or someone I feel isn't worth lynching yet or at least hasn't done anything I feel is lynch worthy at this time.

Elli has the strongest chance of flipping scum power imo, and we ahouldn't get distracted from that.

[Toogeloo]

Actually, this is the first time I've even mentioned you. Why do you get the.imprezsion I've been constantly saying you are scummy?

I don't like that you are ignoring the elephant in the room that is Elli (you don't mention Elli in any post today), and you are actively pushing other popular name dropped suspected players other people seem interested in swaying off Elli, like Sonic. You seem to be a tively avoiding Elli and doing what you can to get some one else lynched.

[Toogeloo]

Flavor spec can be fun. You need to re-iso me though if you think I'm doing too much of it. I make sure I state actual cases first and foremost, and when I feel like chirping in some flavor, or if someone else is talking about flavor, I add my 2 cents on it then. I've maybe had 5 posts all game that focused specifically on flavor.

[Toogeloo]

You have zero post accountability when heads disagree in thread. If Mara thinks player A is scum, and then Nero comes in and says player A is town, you set up a schizophrenic read that makes it near impossible to have relation tells. It's almost like fence sitting imo.

[Toogeloo]

Also, I just read RC's post. Good stuff, though I wont jump up and down like Desp did about how town RC is for it because RC-scum would know well enough that only a post like that would be acceptable for town points at this point. I will however give him enough favor and town points that I won't push for his lynch at this moment.

But something I completely missed that I RC commented on was the pitoli replace request in private. I've only ever asked to be replaced in one game ever, H2aaHFBYM small that just completed. I was scum, and I asked to be replaced on Day 1 in private. So, I put little stock into what kind of a tell requesting a replace in private gives. If anything, if people see it as a town tell, wouldn't scum think it is too and do their replacement a favor?

[Toogeloo]

Metal Sonic lied?

/endcase

[Toogeloo]

So now that everyone has had their chance to post over the last 48ish hours we've been hanging on over the Elli lynch, can we please hammer now?

[Toogeloo]

If Elli doesn't post within 24 hours, I will hammer.

Elli was at L-2ish like 50 something hours ago and didnt take it seriously beyond the claim. I'm pretty sure it's safe to hammer now.

[Toogeloo]

I do think Day 1 was fairly integral for setting town on the right path.

Gee Gee

[Toogeloo]

I'm more amazed that you guys missed TiP's obvious crumbs once he replaced in. He more or less called Thor a Jailkeeper and Mastin a Herder straight up.