The Walking Dead Mafia! ( Game Over )

[Sugar Cain]

Are you high? No one is rereading the game. Mara left and went elsewhere. Stop pretending like we aren't a hydra.

[Sugar Cain]

Anyone know what pages the claimapolooza started?

A Page number?

70.

RC, why dd you vote for SK on day1 despite having read only the first 5 pages?

[Sugar Cain]

I don't want to lynch three players, two of whom I did want to lynch earlier and, in fact, called Thor scummy for not wanting to lynch them and how he weridly avoided doing so.
Also decided not to lynch Sangres, another player Thor already indicated no desire to lynch - probably about the same time I said all his reads were terribad.
Oh, yeah, still want to lynch Thor though - I'm sure for reasons *not* involving his weird defense of people I now also don't want to lynch.

Come again?

I've been town-reading Nacho-ffery from D1, solidified it D2, and I had not even advocated any kind of desire to lynch OGML, I even called him out as town early on.

Titus, yeah I did have as a scum-read, especially when that slot was Jon Doe but when Titus took full control over their slot, his post after that looked so incredibly geniune that I find it near impossible to call that slot scum.

and, I'm don't want to lynch you because of you're reads list, but because the targets you go after and who you chase this game is so, so, so incredibly opportunistic.

Your biggest case on me is my attack on Pitoli, though you don't explain how it is exactly scummy, our hydra diss on how we feel on the speed of the day, and being on the lynching wagon where the lynchee was town which somehow makes us mafia even though you yourself stated that you wouldn't mind helping people lynch him?

not only that, but you think we are scum, but are willing to follow Nero onto Elli when no one else is buying your case?

and then you make this wierd attack on Matt who is so, so, so incredibly Obv town, want to lynch Brains and yet, You havn't done a single hint of scum-hunting at all today. You didn't even do much yesterday.

RC: I know exactly what a hydra is, and how hydrae should play in game. I know the concept behind hydrae, I have billions of them. I realize that some of our posts aren't exactly Pro-town, though the amount of posts we have of us talking in thread isn't that bad and focusing on that fact, when it's pretty damn fucking obvious that we are playing around and using it as a means to look like you are contributing when, really you aren't is just as anti-town as us talking to each other in thread. We are keeping the bulk of our conversation in our QT and we are discussing reads and, along with that us talking and interacting with others far outweigh us talking to each other and you not even taking it into account that we are actually doing our best to keep ourselves unified whilst still having our two very different individual personalities be present in thread.

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Hi TIP, Glad to see you again, and glad to see that you are town.

~sugar


Pedit: THOR I'M HERE NOW WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHY YOU RAE SCUM

[Sugar Cain]

Dear Matty:

Players with Walker mechanics are legit.

Love, Mara

Pedit: TIP WHY MUST YOU OUT US? WHY? D;

Oh, and Titus, my post are signed if I'm not referring to Nero in said post

[Sugar Cain]

This is townTIP mollie

Leave him alone

[Sugar Cain]

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

VOTE: Thor

Follow me TIP, I will lead you to victory

Elli, Pit, and AD are also likely to be scum.

Nero thinks RC is scum, but I don't really agree there

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

you know? I would have thought that Daryl would have been a vig but I guess not.

[Sugar Cain]

you know? I would have thought that Daryl would have been a vig but I guess not.

[Sugar Cain]

For our replacements, "The Walking Dead Mafia! Abridged Version."

Day 1 starts, MattP claims Hated Townie with a Lynch threshold of 2. Thor votes, then Toog (me) votes to hammer. MattP says, "lol, I was just kidding," and reads from the fake claim ensue. Toog (me) asks who Glenn is in the game, shortly after Amrun says she is and asks why, to which Toog (me) replies no reason but to break ice, which frustrates Amrun. Toog claims Maggie. Day 1 hits 30 pages in like 12 hours, during which conversation is mostly centered on pushing StupendousKey lynch and a variety of people giving reads on other players. Some people don't show up, or have very minimal posts during this time, including ActionDan, PeregrineV, Red Coyote, Ellibereth, chesskid, GuyInFreezer, OhGodMyLife, and a few others. Ellibereth claims to want to hammer, a few more votes eventually happen, Elli hammers. SK flips Oscar, Vanilla Townie.

Day 2 starts, Trust Fund (VT), chesskid (Goon), and Majiffy (Town Redirector) all dead. Titus slot does some analysis on the terribad SK lynch, but votes GuyInFreezer (who wasn't on the lynch) and also speculates on the kills, stating the Trust Fund kill was Mafia shot. OGML states the perspective slip and votes Titus' slot. No Brains states the reverse perspective slip on OGML, stating OGML doesn't take into consideration Titus might be a Vig and have knowledge. People vote Titus slot, half the hydra gets bent out of shape and is subsequently ejected from the game. Thor comes in, suddenly people don't like Thor for a variety of reasons. An Elli push starts due to Elli's bad play overall, Elli laughs at it. OGML claims Vig who killed Majiffy (for posting too much and looking scummy day 1), and pushes Titus harder. Titus claims Morales, Vanilla Townie. No Brains laughs, asks more votes on OGML. MattP claims Vig, chaos ensues. No Brains then claims Vig. MattP says his claim was fake because he knew No Brains was Vig and he was trying to protect their claim. No Brains states the specifics of their role, which turns out to not be a Vig at all, but a role that influences the walker kills at night. No Brains argues semantics that their role is a Vig, others try to correct No Brains and state how the mechanic works and other players can influence walkers as well.


You are now more or less caught up on the major events of the game. Feel free to continue reading though.

VOTE: Toogoloo

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Need more than an empty quote please

ok, how about

Little to no scum-hunting, set-up speculation and other similar IIoA type posts, and a tell that has yet to do me wrong? (that quote is for the tell BTW)

toogers is scum

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

This is townTIP mollie

Leave him alone

You're gonna have to explain that to me, reeeeeeeeeeeeal slow. This aint the town-TIP I've come to expect in a game at all.

What's more important is that this isn't TIPscum

He is currently going through a play-style changing phase, so he isn't really going to play like he used to though his scum game hasn't changed I don't think. ScumTIP is extremely awkward, and it is really easy to catch from his first post. I'm not getting that vibe at all this game. He's being a bit more serious, but not serious to the point of it being ScumTIP serious.

there's alot of playful bouncing off already which is something TIP can never, ever do as scum, or I've never seen him do yet as scum

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

I like Dan for scum though, but I want to kill Thor and Toogers first

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Why is Thor town?

and My scum read on you is still there? I'm just not sure what I want to do with it, there are alot of things that you are doing that remind me of town-AJ and the feelings I have on Thor and Toogers both are incredibly strong.

I decided that Elli is probably town because Thor wanted to sheep Nero onto Eli, probably using his eventual town-flip to incriminate us in the next day phase. That isn't going to happen

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Because, Hey

we're scum for being the 4th vote on a lynched townie. Like that tell isn't over-done as is.

[Sugar Cain]

But no, that isn't his main case

so... why is he town again?

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

well

will you comment on the legit case I made on him?

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

I don't want to lynch three players, two of whom I did want to lynch earlier and, in fact, called Thor scummy for not wanting to lynch them and how he weridly avoided doing so.
Also decided not to lynch Sangres, another player Thor already indicated no desire to lynch - probably about the same time I said all his reads were terribad.
Oh, yeah, still want to lynch Thor though - I'm sure for reasons *not* involving his weird defense of people I now also don't want to lynch.

Come again?

I've been town-reading Nacho-ffery from D1, solidified it D2, and I had not even advocated any kind of desire to lynch OGML, I even called him out as town early on.

Titus, yeah I did have as a scum-read, especially when that slot was Jon Doe but when Titus took full control over their slot, his post after that looked so incredibly geniune that I find it near impossible to call that slot scum.

and, I'm don't want to lynch you because of you're reads list, but because the targets you go after and who you chase this game is so, so, so incredibly opportunistic.

Your biggest case on me is my attack on Pitoli, though you don't explain how it is exactly scummy, our hydra diss on how we feel on the speed of the day, and being on the lynching wagon where the lynchee was town which somehow makes us mafia even though you yourself stated that you wouldn't mind helping people lynch him?

not only that, but you think we are scum, but are willing to follow Nero onto Elli when no one else is buying your case?

and then you make this wierd attack on Matt who is so, so, so incredibly Obv town, want to lynch Brains and yet, You havn't done a single hint of scum-hunting at all today. You didn't even do much yesterday.

RC: I know exactly what a hydra is, and how hydrae should play in game. I know the concept behind hydrae, I have billions of them. I realize that some of our posts aren't exactly Pro-town, though the amount of posts we have of us talking in thread isn't that bad and focusing on that fact, when it's pretty damn fucking obvious that we are playing around and using it as a means to look like you are contributing when, really you aren't is just as anti-town as us talking to each other in thread. We are keeping the bulk of our conversation in our QT and we are discussing reads and, along with that us talking and interacting with others far outweigh us talking to each other and you not even taking it into account that we are actually doing our best to keep ourselves unified whilst still having our two very different individual personalities be present in thread.

~Sugar

This is basically it.

not really well thought out, and not much done outside of trying to talk with him, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have legit points and that others can't read it and see what exactly I think about him. I mean, He doesn't even really address it in his response post? not adequately I don't think, he just says Yes, or no. The concerns here are legit, and stuff I don't think cross a townie's mind at all

[Sugar Cain]

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

UNVOTE:

I don't want to touch Titus

I don't want to touch Sangres

I don't want to touch OGML

I do, however want Thor's blood

I'll re-read the game and about two hours when I get home

~Sugar

Not to mention that he mis-repped this post really, really bad.

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

no Matt, this is scum. Amrun, didja ever read my Titus/AJ connection?

Why was leaving out AJ in particular so damning?

'cause I think buddies like to avoid mentioning each other and its a logical disconnect.

Seriously, you have four to five flaws here.

1. You're underestimating my ability to play scum
2. You're using confirmation bias on yourself because I have had you as scum all day and been very vocal about it.
3. That wasn't really a legitimate connection. I voted for JD because I thought the 5 post in a row a scum tell and OMGUS on OGML's calling flavor analysis a scum tell.
4. I've posted a very low amount since that incident and am admittedly more or less forgettable.
5. That was a terrible bus if it was one, and an even worse reaction.

1. ok? I don't see what that has to do with anything.
2. No. I'm pretty sure that if you were town and you were scumreading a player and that player was all like "oh, there HAS to be scum pushing me" but ignores one of the pushers. Titus said that she felt she was being pushed by scum but she was ignoring your push. Though I kinda fucked up 'cause there were other player scumreading her slot that she never mentioned like Bork and Amrun.
3. ok? Are you even reading here? I said I thought you were scummy 'cause I thought Titus was scummy and she was NOT calling you scum despite the theory that scum were pushing her. I mean she later (maybe a backtrack) called you scum but she wasn't scum reading you for awhile.
4. Why are you posting such a small amount?
5. So your defense is that it was too terrible of reaction to come from scum, ok.

[Sugar Cain]

Why? For example, in mainstream mafia we thought that McQueen/Johog/Thad were all scummy together and hey they all were so I see nothing wrong with speculating who might be buddies together.

[Sugar Cain]

So you think I'm basing my entire play off of Titus? lol

[Sugar Cain]

Getting lucky doesn't mean it was right. Associations are better done with dead scum. Yet you don't seem keen on that analysis.

Well guess what? We don't have any dead scum yet.

[Sugar Cain]

errr, we do but I don't think we can really get anything from Chess.

[Sugar Cain]

or do you think one of Dan/Eli is scum due to him challenging them to hammer?

[Sugar Cain]

@Aj, Common sense says i is highly unlikely Sugar and I are scum together.

???????

So when I flip town that means you are scum? awesome. Thank you for letting us know.

[Sugar Cain]

errr, we do but I don't think we can really get anything from Chess.

You never even looked at his ISO. You should have. It likely confirms Brains as town.

What? My thinking that nothing productive will come from Chess makes you think I didn't read his ISO. What the fuck is that?

[Sugar Cain]

So what useful association should I get from Chess' ISO? Niether me or Mara are scum reading NBH so it seems really odd how you blurt out "Chess likely confirms NBH"

I know that we're town and, if you are town, then you should know you are town. So it seems strange when you tell AJ that "we are unlikely to be buddies" when you should know that we aren't. So to me, using the phrase "highly unlikely" seems really odd.

[Sugar Cain]

.....................

Nero: I don't feel we'll really get anything useful from Chess' ISO

Titus: That means you didn't ISO him!!!

I really don't understand how that works so I'll ask again, what useful interaction do you think that the town should get from Chess' ISO?

[Sugar Cain]

OGML is just so funny. I wish you weren't a claimed vig.

[Sugar Cain]

OGML is just so funny. I wish you weren't a claimed vig.

[Sugar Cain]

no, so your dumbass wouldn't waste a bullet by shooting us.

[Sugar Cain]

.....................

Nero: I don't feel we'll really get anything useful from Chess' ISO

Titus: That means you didn't ISO him!!!

I really don't understand how that works so I'll ask again, what useful interaction do you think that the town should get from Chess' ISO?

Chesskid only mentioned Dgb by name. He posted a lot with no content. He did a reactionary fos on Brains. That isn't something I would expect him to do if they were both indeed scum Day 1. Therefore,Brains is likely town.

ok....but I wasn't scumreading Brains so why do you care so much about pointing out Brains town?

He also did mention Eli and Dan by name. So your whole "Chess only mentioned DGB by name" is false.

but if you think that we don't get any scum reads by association off of his ISO then why are you fussing at me about getting associative tells off of Chess?

but I'm scumreading Eli and Chess did mention him so maybe.

[Sugar Cain]

.....................

Nero: I don't feel we'll really get anything useful from Chess' ISO

Titus: That means you didn't ISO him!!!

I really don't understand how that works so I'll ask again, what useful interaction do you think that the town should get from Chess' ISO?

Chesskid only mentioned Dgb by name. He posted a lot with no content. He did a reactionary fos on Brains. That isn't something I would expect him to do if they were both indeed scum Day 1. Therefore,Brains is likely town.

and there are other, far better, more accurate ways to read Brains this game. Chess's Iso doesn't really have much, other than partner WIFOM that we don't know if he will or won't do.

His Iso is meaningless, there really isn't a reason for us to Iso him at all.

and you're calling us scum because we are making associations, while not looking at near meaningless ones of the dead flipped scum?

You're probably town, but jesus christ, Your attacks are WIFOM, your defenses are WIFOM, You're being egotistical, saying scum had to be on your wagon and that you are trying to figure out which ones are scum and you don't even take into consideration that, most of the votes that were piled onto you were due to the fact that, people thought your slot could be scummy and it was a pretty big annoyance/noise maker in this game when we need noise to be reduced.

I decided that Elli is probably town because Thor wanted to sheep Nero onto Eli, probably using his eventual town-flip to incriminate us in the next day phase. That isn't going to happen

I still am amazed I can't get a wagon on you.

It's probably a part of my charm. You were there when it took me for fucking ever to get a wagon built on me in Mafiableh right?

You're still scum though, which is what makes you different from Titus

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Yeah, I think you hit a nice point there, it does show a disassociation in his claimed scumhunting method, which is usually indicative of scum.

????

Titus doesn't even think we can find Chess' scumbuddies from his ISO, so I don't know why she thinks I should. I don't that makes any sense. I also don't see how he thinks I haven't ISO'd Chess before so w/e.

[Sugar Cain]

Yeah, I think you hit a nice point there, it does show a disassociation in his claimed scumhunting method, which is usually indicative of scum.

????

Titus doesn't even think we can find Chess' scumbuddies from his ISO, so I don't know why she thinks I should. I don't that makes any sense. I also don't see how he thinks I haven't ISO'd Chess before so w/e.

[Sugar Cain]

I am fussing at you because you harp more on living associations than the dead ones. It's inconstient with your purported scumhunting. You only ISOed Chesskid after I told you what was I felt important.

And again, I ask you what associations should I be getting from Chess?

I also ISO'd Chess as soon as he died and I have no clue how you think that I didn't.

Wow! I am sudenly town now after allegedly making a scum claim a few posts back.

Mara has been calling you town for awhile now dummy.

Did you or did you not ISO Chess prior to Titus asking you about it?
If so, why such a stink about him asking?
If not, why not?

I did.

I am making such a "big stink" over it 'cause I think it makes no sense. Chess mentions DGB, Eli and Dan. I could maybe buy one of Dan/eli as scum but iys not like his ISO gives us much to go on and her "well you should be able to find a Chess buddy is his ISO" when his ISO is super wifom me is stupid,SHE'S also not able to find scum in that ISO so why does she think I shoul? its also not this contradiction you two are trying to make it out to be.

[Sugar Cain]

Nice hydra dissonance claim on the scumslip to town in a few posts. When all else fails, blame the other head.

hahahaah.

#1 that's not a scumslip #2 that's correcting you.

And no. I've already looked at Chess' ISO. You were impling that I was scum 'cause I wasn't using his ISO to find scum when you yourself don't think scum can be found in his ISO.

As for Brains, we weren't scumreading him so your "point" that we should be town reading that slot is hollow fluff.

[Sugar Cain]

Nice hydra dissonance claim on the scumslip to town in a few posts. When all else fails, blame the other head.

hahahaah.

#1 that's not a scumslip #2 that's correcting you.

And no. I've already looked at Chess' ISO. You were impling that I was scum 'cause I wasn't using his ISO to find scum when you yourself don't think scum can be found in his ISO.

As for Brains, we weren't scumreading him so your "point" that we should be town reading that slot is hollow fluff.

[Sugar Cain]

We know what associations are, and how they can be used but I'm just saying that Chess's associations aren't the best ones to make conclusions out of given, he's barely had enough to make anything solid...

I can't speak for the fact of whether or not Nero did or did not Iso Chess, but it's very possible to forget that he died and flipped scum since it won't be present in his Iso

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

I like AD scum Mastin, I've stated as much in thread I think?

Nero hasn't been opposed to it, so I think he also agrees....

why are you only addressing Nero, and ignoring me?

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Lemme rephrase that: Elli or Sugar, do you care who gets lynched today?

Yes?

I don't want any of my town-reads lynched, and I would much prefer to have the people I have been attacking and calling scum be lynched. I would also like it if OGML actually listened to people who are so, so incredibly town when the tell him to not shoot sangres because, frankly, that slot is town. I almost feel like he is going to lose the game for us with bad shots...

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

I exist :/

and I don't flail, I melt-down. It isn't pretty

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Actually, I think that it was DGB that posted most of the Neroball posts and I find it hilarious that its hard to tell us apart.

[Sugar Cain]

Actually, I think that it was DGB that posted most of the Neroball posts and I find it hilarious that its hard to tell us apart.

[Sugar Cain]

Nice hydra dissonance claim on the scumslip to town in a few posts. When all else fails, blame the other head.

hahahaah.

#1 that's not a scumslip #2 that's correcting you.

And no. I've already looked at Chess' ISO. You were impling that I was scum 'cause I wasn't using his ISO to find scum when you yourself don't think scum can be found in his ISO.

As for Brains, we weren't scumreading him so your "point" that we should be town reading that slot is hollow fluff.

There's more than scum that can be found via association, Cain. Innocent players can also be found through ISOing. The analysis I did regarding Brains being town from Chesskid's posts is hardly hollow fluff. For someone who seems to read associations, you aren't being that good at it. For instance, a hypothetically shot Cop should be isoed to see if he abnormally defended anyone still alive. If so, the cop probably thought that player was inno due to a check. Association is not just about ZOMG! They were nice to each other. Scum.

If you were legitimately doing these associations you would not have a) forgetten Chesskid was dead OR forgotten he was scum. AND b) you would have posted that you couldn't find anything in chesskid's ISO. The fact you did these things strongly suggests you never ISOed Chesskid.

But I am, as should you, be looking for scum. And Brain's doesn't look like a Chess buddy so why should I care about that? That's right, 'cause I'm town and only care about finding scum. Therefore your claim that I am "not hunting via association" is a big ball of bullshit b/c you stated that you don't think scum can be found bwo Chess' ISO.

[Sugar Cain]

'cause Titus is still scum. Do you remember anything that Titus has said about Eli 'cause I don't.

[Sugar Cain]

. In fact, I have said that Eli was either horrible town or scum

Such a hardcore stance, no way you could possibly be scum with THAT.

[Sugar Cain]

Why are you asking others about Eli's meta instead of doing it yourself?

You've also said that you don't like to use meta...yet you are using it?

[Sugar Cain]

Ok, I'll hold my reservations on meta judgment until then. Also, I'm going out of my way to really look at this meta since a lot of people disagree with me. Normally,

my belief is meta has little value since the player is aware of it

.

I asked questions to try and clarify whether Eli was scum in my mind (

was this his meta?

). I never got 100% clear responses although Brains is starting to be clear now.

[Sugar Cain]

Am I the only person who caught what this vote was about?

I saw no logic in it and dismissed it as flail.

I didn't see it as flail, given who posted it.

Interesting to note, however: Neither of you had any part in the discussion. May I ask how you came across the discussion?

I read way more than I post in the mafia discussion forum. In that particular instance, the topic was of interest to me because about that time I was playing an ungodly long newbie game and someone replaced into it at the start of day 2. He asked for a summary and I did a sort of conversational mode Q&A rather than a wall. It turned out to be a good way for us both to develop reads. There may be something to Mara's summary tell, but it's more nuanced than summary = scummy. The fact that it was the summary with the flowery turns of phrase and narrative style that pinged for her in this game probably says something about how she thinks about the tell, herself.

Of course there is? there aren't any tells that are black and white, though I just missed Thor's summary. Him and toogers are definitely not scum together though their separate summaries each have things in them that kinda bother me.

Pedit: I really, really do not like this Elli lynch

[Sugar Cain]

He hasn't done anything particularly scummy?

Nero did like the Elli wagon earlier and I didn't oppose, though that was before you became the main pusher of that wagon

and no, that isn't the basis of our scum read on you but it is a pretty good addition to what I had stated earlier. I really, really do not see the town-motivation of following ones scum-read

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

deadline isn't till the 16th and I'd LOVE to see this catchup post from RC.

[Sugar Cain]

What is your read on RC?

[Sugar Cain]

Are we really the only ones that want to/think its important to see this massive catchup post from RC?

[Sugar Cain]

Elli essentially popped into the thread and said, "Here's my claim, bye now!" He's had no content at all, and even at L-1, has had no fight to stay alive.

The "no will to stay alive thing" Is more townish than scummish IMO

[Sugar Cain]

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Guys
I think RC is scum

Promises without fulfillment in a reasonable timeframe tend to increase a player's scumread. I'm leaning this way very heavily.

So why were you all like "RC can just post his stuff later!!!" Why not let him get his post up today?

[Sugar Cain]

Guys
I think RC is scum

Promises without fulfillment in a reasonable timeframe tend to increase a player's scumread. I'm leaning this way very heavily.

So why were you all like "RC can just post his stuff later!!!" Why not let him get his post up today?

Because I think he's full of it and I'm not going to want scum to try and derail a wagon while waiting on a promise that might never happen. If RC is town, he can post it tomorrow.

but if RC is scum he'll get help from his scumbuddies. There's plenty of time till dl and I don't see the need to rush an Eli lynch.

[Sugar Cain]

Guys
I think RC is scum

VOTE: Red Coyote

I'll take what I can get love <3

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Ffery, I thought the Claim was townish. there really isn't scum-motivation behind that claim and it looks like Derp-town regardless of what I thought of Pitoli earlier. Nero thinks he's playing the derp-card on purpose to keep the lynch off him though but I'm not to sure on that

~Sugar

Pedit: Mollie, plz don't attack Ffery/nacho. they are pretty fucking town

Pedit2: Fuck no

[Sugar Cain]

RC/AD/Thor and someone else. I need to figure out who the last scum member is and I'm hoping I have the chance to do such.

[Sugar Cain]

When the claimed vig whom we are town-reading repeatedly says he plans to vig us I take it at face value.

That's kinda like being at L-0 all day.

I am curious as to why you are choosing not to claim under these circumstances.

I'm curious why no one else expressed curiosity, but I imagine you can think of both pro and anti town reasons why someone might not. After OMGL claimed vig, he demanded that several different players claim on threat of vig kill. Then he brought the focus down to just us. If we claimed, I worried he'd move on and pressure other players again and I don't particularlly want to see a whole bunch more claims forced out of town on day 2.

This is incredibly fucking town, especially if they think that outting their role isn't going to change the game-state?

Not claiming so that, no one else has to be pressured to claim if OGML decides to move on is one of the townieset moes one could ever, ever make

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

DBG

[Sugar Cain]

There is no reason, at all for scum to not claim, even fake claim. Knowing Nacho, they probably have it set-up way, way, waaayyy before they would have ever had a chance to be ran-up. I know I get my claims done before hand in scum-hydra's too. There is absolutely no scum motivation for Ffery to not claim, to not hammer, to be this incredibly stubborn but there is alot of town motivation to do all of those things. Please leave them alone, they are town

~SUgar

[Sugar Cain]

also, what is your read on RC?

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Cuz I already know what you think, Kinda...

though, if you want me to

Thoughts on

AD, THor, RC.

why you think Sangres is scum

thoughts on Elli

and Metal Sonic/Pitoli

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Titus, can I get a link to your last scum game.

[Sugar Cain]

Titus, can I get a link to your last scum game.

Woah woah woah I thought you Dont Do Meta?

When did I say that?

[Sugar Cain]

Thor is probably scum with her

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

IIOA is generally a scum trait, so you think he's too experienced of a player to do this?

[Sugar Cain]

*shrugz*

I'm busy responding to the part about me and have only skimmed the rest but basically I think his stuff (about me) is pretty lol and all his scumreads are like the most suspected players in the game and both me and Mara didn't like the fact he kept bandwagoning without being fully caught up.

[Sugar Cain]

EL OH EL!!! I think you are about the only person in this thread that thought our roleblocker claim was real and that just makes me sad.

Post 667 is just flatout confusing. It was about this point when players should realize that Sugar often just posts to be posting

Maybe its confusing when taken out of context. Bork was asking whom he should be looking at and I told him. Yeah, I messed up and put a question mark instead of a period but come on it can't be THAT hard to figure out what I meant.

but then you've got scummy stuff like post 889 which excuses the slot for not using their vote

Same question I asked OGML (which I don't remember him answering) Why was it important to move my vote?

post 2141 have these traits of paranoia that is another thing this slot is known for. It has me leaning back toward a scumread

You have me leaning scum for doing something that I'm known for doing? WTF?

as does their persistent, wrongheaded push of Toog throughout this game.

Upon what authority has told you that Toog is town?

+ Why did you feel the need to skip a paragraph on Titus? Can you explain your Titus read better? In your little blurb it seems like you have it more in a positive light than negative so....yeah.

[Sugar Cain]

Yep 'cause I'm obviously faking my town meta

[Sugar Cain]

the notion that being upset with your blatant, in-thread hydra-dis

I don't think that I really got this, I think he flat out called us scummy for this.

Why do you think town would be worried about this? I dunno, it seems a bit authoritative to me. I'll see what Mara has to say about RC.

[Sugar Cain]

You, OGML, Titus, MattP (old), AJ

That's atleast 5

[Sugar Cain]

Titus, what do you think of all the players getting off of Eli?

[Sugar Cain]

There is an element of most mentioned lynch targets as the scums.

I also find this kinda funny given that Thor just gave me a tongue lashing for thinking this as well.

[Sugar Cain]

And if so, why am I a town read for him?
Hint: because he's not doing what you're accusing him of.

besides us and getting into it with Mollie...who suspects you?

[Sugar Cain]

There is an element of most mentioned lynch targets as the scums.

I also find this kinda funny given that Thor just gave me a tongue lashing for thinking this as well.

You're wrong Nero. Mastin has gotten zero support for his AD wagon and you are inflating your own suspicion level. Pitoli/MS has just been scummy.

huh? What does that have to do with Mastin and AD?

[Sugar Cain]

I still think the dogged insistence of demanding they can't be scum together means they're scum together

lol no

[Sugar Cain]

Whatevs, Sugar is massively worried about someone finding him scum while other people find that person townish and is leaping into a campaign of trying to discredit the idea asap.

That being my point.

not worried no. I mean I've been calling RC scum since n1 'cause I felt that he had no business bandwagoning SK like he did when he wasn't caught up. Mara was actually against my read 'cause she felt that RC was too good at scum to play like that but she's changed her mind. I mean its not like scum are incapable of walling or putting forth effort so I don't really see a reason that he should be considered obvtown or w/e. So its like our opinion and you know its scumhunting weather you or anyone thinks my opinion sucks, who cares.

[Sugar Cain]

Whatevs, Sugar is massively worried about someone finding him scum while other people find that person townish and is leaping into a campaign of trying to discredit the idea asap.

That being my point.

not worried no. I mean I've been calling RC scum since n1 'cause I felt that he had no business bandwagoning SK like he did when he wasn't caught up. Mara was actually against my read 'cause she felt that RC was too good at scum to play like that but she's changed her mind. I mean its not like scum are incapable of walling or putting forth effort so I don't really see a reason that he should be considered obvtown or w/e. So its like our opinion and you know its scumhunting weather you or anyone thinks my opinion sucks, who cares.

[Sugar Cain]

There is an element of most mentioned lynch targets as the scums.

I also find this kinda funny given that Thor just gave me a tongue lashing for thinking this as well.

You're wrong Nero. Mastin has gotten zero support for his AD wagon and you are inflating your own suspicion level. Pitoli/MS has just been scummy.

huh? What does that have to do with Mastin and AD?

You said RC's scum reads are the most suspected people. I was showing you why you're wrong.

How did you not put that together yourself?

So no one is calling AD scum? He's pretty heavily suspected and just 'cause there's no current bandwagon on him doesn't mean he's not being called scum. So sorry, I don't think this this is valid.

[Sugar Cain]

Your neck and the rope both care.

no, not really. I'm sure that Mara doesn't want to die either but atleast you guys would know our reads are genuine and there's no reason for us, as town, to not give our reads/opinions no matter how unpopular they are.

Calling RC scum since n1? What?

The fuck is this. Yes I have a QT. Most hydra's do.

[Sugar Cain]

Your neck and the rope both care.

no, not really. I'm sure that Mara doesn't want to die either but atleast you guys would know our reads are genuine and there's no reason for us, as town, to not give our reads/opinions no matter how unpopular they are.

Calling RC scum since n1? What?

The fuck is this. Yes I have a QT. Most hydra's do.

[Sugar Cain]

Oh, I see. I guess that makes sense.

Mara, if you are so excited to be town, why not post much?

I'm posting every opportunity I can get?

I don't know where you're getting this idea that I'm lurking?

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Sugar Cain

has been festering in my mind as an unhealthy mix of a scum and anti-town read. The first thing to note is that this slot has claimed as a roleblocker, which gives me real pause in pushing this slot prematurely, but short of a godfather, a roleblocker is probably one of the most common scum roles around. It's kind of a wash. Post 386 is the first post that stuck out to me as scummy. This reads as Sugar wanting to have her cake and eat it too. She says she doesn't like the speed of the wagon, but she helped mobilize it. She says she doesn't like how SK isn't defending himself, but she says she still doesn't like him. I don't even know how "not defending yourself" translates into something a town player would do, but that's why this post is scummy. Post 507 is too emotional and too tag-alongish. Maybe it was the emoticon that put it over the top, but I just dislike this whole comment. Another thing is that this is the second time she has said Toog is scum without really addressing him directly or elaborating. Post 667 is just flatout confusing. It was about this point when players should realize that Sugar often just posts to be posting. A great many of the posts that come from Sugar are fluffy and ultimately serve to do nothing more than clutter the thread with random emotions and thoughts that often go nowhere. A good example is her deplorable "test" on pitoli. In what should've been a relatively simple questioning of pitoli, Sugar somehow managed to completely fumble it in a way I cannot fathom as being anything but anti-town. I talk about this more in my notes, but if you look at post 785 where the incompetence really comes to a head, Sugar somehow manages to 1) Create a test for pitoli. 2) Have Matt call her out for it. 3) Respond to Matt that it is, in fact, a test. 4) Have pitoli respond to it. 5) And after all this, still screw up on the player that "hasn't posted at all"? It's a comedy of errors. Post 864 is a good question that Desperado ignored for some reason, but then you've got scummy stuff like post 889 which excuses the slot for not using their vote. I've already talked about earlier in this thread how bad post 993 is, but it bears repeating. This is the kind of post that really wants me to push for a lynch on this slot though. Posts like that are incredibly harmful to the town and get us nowhere. No one should be subjected to hearing a hydra bicker over internal problems, but Sugar is a repeat offender. Post 1115 and post 2141 have these traits of paranoia that is another thing this slot is known for. It has me leaning back toward a scumread, as does their persistent, wrongheaded push of Toog throughout this game.

You took our RB claim seriously even though it was a response to Nero's Vig claim, which is a claim that wasn't taken seriously?

as for my "not liking the speed of the wagon, and the lack of him defending himself" to "joining the wagon myself" I explained why I did that, Thor addressed that earlier.

and you take note that we argue a bit in thread, though you kinda ignore the fact that we kinda aren't the only hydra who is showing signs of dissonance. I'm pretty sure Mollie and DBG had fought a little in thread, and so did Jon doe when they were a hydra yet you have Mollie/DBG as "don't want to lynch, yet don't have a town-read on them" kinda read

that thing with Matt earlier wasn't a test, but me trying to understand her mindset, how she came up with that list of PoE.

You've explained how we have been anti-town (I'm not going to deny that part, it's taken me a while to get down to business and I'm not even there yet) But you've have yet to explain how I have been scummy exactly, or more so how have we been scummy.

you accuse us of bogging down the thread, though a few of your own town-reads have done that as well? Why are we scummy for it, while they aren't?

What's even more interesting, is that you agree with my scum-read on AD and my scum read on Pitoli (which is now kinda retracted via because of Metal sonic) and you also agree with my previous scum-read of Titus who I have now done a complete 180 on and no one has really asked why I've done so.

You don't agree with my Toogers read, but you don't explain how me reading him as scum is scummy. You also ignore my entire push on Thor even though it was just as bad as my push on Toogers?

why are you doing that?

You've accused my post of being overly emotional, ok so? How is that, in anyway scummy?

you also think we are scum because we are exhibiting some paranoia though the faking that is something I'm more akin to, not Nero. Those posts you linked? they came from Nero and even then it takes alot of self-awareness and energy to want to fake that kind of paranoia.


~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

We havn't claimed, and they have. So? what difference does that make?

The only read we have a current disagreement on is Titus, and outside of early D1 where we wern't taking anything serious, how has anything we have done not had any clear goal?

outside of the few joking posts we made, we interact when it's needed and you even stated that some of my post did have a clear goal IE. interacting with pitoli and "Making a test" for her

nearly half of our post address someone

how is talking about Theme going to help anyone? all it is, is flavor gaming. there is no scum-hunting involved in that... which is something you have also accused us of doing which is uh... Town.

also, how is paranoia scummy?

further more, you missed my point. I was saying that faking that kind of paranoia is something up more my avenue and it is something Scum-nero isn't to adept at. Yeah, I could be coaching him, but even then it won't look as genuine as it should and it'll look fake

unless that is what you're saying about the paranoia?

yes, we have the same role, but we react to different things differently. We have different strengths as individual player which is what you are ignoring

and again, I am an emotional player, Nero can be too so how is it scummy? We aren't preying on other peoples emotions, nor are we manipulating them. we are just being reactive?

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Shush, you need to learn how to not interrupt when I'm talking to your buddies

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

no

i am just demotivated as fuck

sorry

Why are you demotivated?

[Sugar Cain]

TIP, have you read the game yet?

[Sugar Cain]

Half a million years ago. Why?

but you are only 17, there's no way you could have read in that long ago.

I just don't remember any sort of catch up post or anything from you. Ima go look through your ISO but if you haven't mentioned your scumreads could you do that plox.

[Sugar Cain]

like, I just found them but like, I don't see a big deal in stating them again but it doesn't matter 'cause I like, found them.

[Sugar Cain]

vote:NBH

[Sugar Cain]

vote:NBH

[Sugar Cain]

Scum prob have herders as well

[Sugar Cain]

OverrunNight 2 has officially started, but walkers have broken through the gates and are spilling into your camp and prison. Due to the influx of walkers, and due to the prison getting overrun, there is a guaranteed chance of at least 2 walker kills occurring during this night, and due to walkers being everywhere, nobody is allowed to hide during this night. If you have a night action, please submit it before the deadline of the night, which is August 14th, Wednesday, at 1:30pm PST.

So Nacho might be correct about the kills being unable to work, idk.

[Sugar Cain]

OverrunNight 2 has officially started, but walkers have broken through the gates and are spilling into your camp and prison. Due to the influx of walkers, and due to the prison getting overrun, there is a guaranteed chance of at least 2 walker kills occurring during this night, and due to walkers being everywhere, nobody is allowed to hide during this night. If you have a night action, please submit it before the deadline of the night, which is August 14th, Wednesday, at 1:30pm PST.

So Nacho might be correct about the kills being unable to work, idk.

[Sugar Cain]

OverrunNight 2 has officially started, but walkers have broken through the gates and are spilling into your camp and prison. Due to the influx of walkers, and due to the prison getting overrun, there is a guaranteed chance of at least 2 walker kills occurring during this night, and due to walkers being everywhere, nobody is allowed to hide during this night. If you have a night action, please submit it before the deadline of the night, which is August 14th, Wednesday, at 1:30pm PST.

So Nacho might be correct about the kills being unable to work, idk.

[Sugar Cain]

OverrunNight 2 has officially started, but walkers have broken through the gates and are spilling into your camp and prison. Due to the influx of walkers, and due to the prison getting overrun, there is a guaranteed chance of at least 2 walker kills occurring during this night, and due to walkers being everywhere, nobody is allowed to hide during this night. If you have a night action, please submit it before the deadline of the night, which is August 14th, Wednesday, at 1:30pm PST.

So Nacho might be correct about the kills being unable to work, idk.

[Sugar Cain]

sweet 4 in a row.

[Sugar Cain]

UNVOTE:

[Sugar Cain]

VOTE: Coyote

I'm willing to leave Thor alone for the time being, though

Titus, to answer your question, I unvoted your hydra early on the second day Which meant I was unsure of my stance on you. For me to be unsure of things like that is a pretty big deal, not to mention that I left you alone for a good portion of the time until Nero came back and started to attack you again.

after Nero attacks you, Nero asks me to not move our vote away from you which should be an indication of what we are talking about, and how I kinda feel about you

then stated that I didn't want to touch you.

so, I didn't outright state that I changed my read on you though there were enough hints that suggested that we were at least a tiny bit dissonant at you at the very least, which means I'm not scum-reading you with Nero, which could mean that I was town-reading you

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Especially since you don't even have a case on me.

I have one on you though, you got awfully scared of that bus I forced you into.

I do?

Chain-sawing my top scum-read, Willing to sheep your top suspect onto a lynch, and Nero has stated some pretty good stuff about your terribad reads and, while I'm trying really, really hard to not use BoP as a main reason, I don't see how someone of your caliber can have such terribad reads as scum and this really does have a closer ring to Thor in Both Tierce's newbie game and Tracey's newbie game than it does to your play in Flavorless and Vel-Ranh Koons newbie game.

The only reason I'm leaving you alone today is because of your interaction with Eli

as for me being scared of that bus, Don't pretend that you don't know that I prefer to bus especially when I have buddies going down like that.

Meanwhile, You don't even take a second look at RC most recent post while it, on it's own, has reasons to be scummy.

He slings mud towards OGML's direction, Slings mug toward Mastins direction and reads AD town, while voting MS?

it doesn't make any kind of sense, he's lying back and, aside from his T/S list, hasn't done anything overly townie and those kinds of lists are easy to fake, especially for a person who is (supposedly) good as scum.

~Sugar

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

I don't see how someone of your caliber can have such terribad reads as scum

that should read, someone of your caliber can have terribad reads as town*

[Sugar Cain]

Mollie never said anything about you being out to lynch them

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Let's see;

2. RedCoyote
8. PeregrineV
9. Mastin2
11. Aj the Epic
12. No Brains Here ( DrippingGoofball / Pirate Mollie )
15. Ellibereth *
16. Actiondan
17. Mattp
22. GuyInFreezer
23. Sugar Cain ( Nero Cain / Ms Marangal )

There.

In this list, the only people who were legit suspects IMO are RC, AD, and maybe GIF

Pere is understandable as a null as he hasn't posted

though you scum read on everyone else on this list?

Mastin, Aj, Matty, and NBH are all town, I would even consider them as Obv town.

You're scum-reading Matty and NBH for mainly Anti-town reasons, not scummy reasons

you havn't explained why you were ever scum-reading Mastin, and Aj

I'm pretty sure there was a time where you asked Aj to sheep you, and I'm still trying to figure out why you would ask anyone you were suspecting to help you lynch someone. You don't ask people you think is scum to help you, I can't understand the town-mindset behind that, yet you asked us to help vote Elli which is the biggest reason to why I chickened out of that lynch.

Elli's scumflip does make me reconsider my read on you though and that, maybe you are town who is just having some really, really bad reads

[Sugar Cain]

Why would Michonne be a scum role? Yours and bork's votes are not thought out.

I HIGHLY doubt that the scum team has no ability to control the horde. This is obtuse but considering that you are a scumslot it would make sense.

[Sugar Cain]

And you know for a fact there aren't more than 3 herders, Sugar?

?????

That has nothing to do with anything that was said.

I think it would be pretty bastardly to give only the town ways to interact with the horde. I really hate it that you are dancing around this possibility when its seems like common sense.

I also hate the fact that you are seemingly defending NBH but also arguing and calling it scum.

[Sugar Cain]

Holy fuck, TIP why do you have to be scum?

why?

and Thor, yes I realize Elli was dead on the money. it's part of the reason why I am reconsidering my read on you, but that doesn't change the fact that

Mastin, NBH, Matty, and Aj are all terribad reads, and that scum-reading any of them, even for a second is strange. I honestly how anyone can even think of having a scum-read on any of them. Unsure maybe, but Scum-reading them?

I never said your read on Elli was bad, but that doesn't mean your other reads weren't and, I even stated that I am willing to re-think my stance on you so, why even ask why I

was

scum reading you?

Why are you acting like a flip can't make a person change their reads on someone else?

further more, why are you melding mine, and Nero's actions together when I am making it obvious as to who is doing what?

yeah, we are a hydra and we share one alignment but we are still two separate people who think two totally separate things.

as for you explaining your reads, You have explained your thoughts on us, NHB, Matty, Titus, and just about everyone else, or if you didn't your actions kinda told us for you though you have little to no interaction with Mastin or Aj and your reason on them isn't as readily understandable as all of your other reads. it's why those two stick out to me the most

RC, I am not acting out because of you calling our play poor, though that is just an excuse to make any valid point that we have against you look petty and weak

I disagree with you Mastin scum-read yes, and I don't think you have a valid reason for thinking he's scum

I also slightly disagree with your AD scum-read and I'm kinda with Mastin on the "Chess calling out his buddies the way he did" stance.

Titus is pretty obviously town at this juncture, why you would scum-read him is pretty strange

and Bork is a shifty read

~sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Mastin, NBH, Matty, and Aj are all terribad reads, and that scum-reading any of them, even for a second is strange.

I honestly how anyone can even think of having a scum-read on any of them. Unsure maybe, but Scum-reading them?

I never said your read on Elli was bad, but that doesn't mean your other reads weren't and,

I even stated that I am willing to re-think my stance on you so, why even ask why I was scum reading you?

Italicized: I find the "your reads were different from mine" reason contributing to scumreading a slot dishonest. Show us the scum motivation there, otherwise town should at least entertain the idea of that person being just wrong, but you've been just using it as ammo.

Underlined is one of the more blatant attempts at appeasement I've seen. You don't get to sweep someone's line of questioning under the rug just because

you

say you've changed your mind about

them

.

Switch my Sugar-Thor stance around.

Yesterday Mara had a scum read on Toog. RC came in and called us scummy for scumreading Toog. Why is it scummy for Mara to "not consider Thor wrong" but its ok and townie? for RC to not consider Mara/us wrong?

What exactly is Mara sweeping under the rug?

[Sugar Cain]

@Sugar, lolno, why do you think I'm scum?

Well why do you think we are scum?

All I've seen is "ZOMG YOU GUYS THINK RC IZ SCUM!!!" Is there more?

[Sugar Cain]

I'll get to it in a min but for now read this.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Do you think Tip's play is similar here?

[Sugar Cain]

So he's scum here as well?

[Sugar Cain]

Did... Did Sugar really vote RC?
And what is nbh talking about I don't even
I want to hear from metal sonic, in the meanwhile:
VOTE: Sugar

You bandwagoned us and don't think we are scum? WTF is this shit?

[Sugar Cain]

Chill, Bork. I was just asking if you think he's scum this game.

[Sugar Cain]

nope not really but I don't understand why town would park their vote on a non-scum read. Hence why I asked why you are scum reading us since (if your town) your vote belongs on who you think is scum.

[Sugar Cain]

Why is it scummy for Mara to "not consider Thor wrong"

but its ok and townie? for RC to not consider Mara/us wrong?

Don't put words in my mouth; I very obviously never even mentioned the underlined. Go ahead and quote what you are talking about.

I don't think I was putting words into your mouth, I found, what looks like to me, a contradiction and am therefore questioning you about it. Though I did assume that you had a town read on RC, is that incorrect?

There might be more but the gist is he was scumreading us/Mara for scumreading Toog.

I think your push on Toog is seriously misguided and you put too much weight on the idea that he's using IIoA. I think Toog is bring information in about the theme in a very responsible way and helping the town, especially the players that aren't as familiar with the theme, digest it a bit more easily. It strikes me as good stuff, and to call him on it feels like weak scumhunting.

Titus 3001 wrote:Also, I think a vote history analysis is in order. Players who pushed trains on any of the above players should be deemed suspicious in some regard.


I agree with this in the case of Toog and somewhat in the case of Amrun as well. Two things I want to say though. 1) No one had any serious suspicion of Amrun that I can remember except for Aj and NBH. 2) Who's the first person that comes to your head when you think about people that suspected Toog? Sugar Cain. Do you concur?

Which is why I questioned your scumreading us for calling Thor scummy for "not entertaining the idea that Thor was wrong" while RC was doing the same thing and MAAAYYYBBBEEEE TIP.

[Sugar Cain]

I'm not appeasing Thor?

not in the slightest, I'm wondering why he's bringing up us scum-reading him when I'm currently putting that to the side. I'm asking him why he is asking a question with no current relevance to how I see him now, and a question that isn't really going to be productive in scum-hunting. It's forcing me to talk about a has-been read on him over a current read.

and the scum motivation for pushing people who are obviously playing anti-town? especially early on in the game, as well as people who havn't posted a whole lot and aren't entirely active?

because, going for an easy lynch is a major motivation. Harping on the things Thor was harping on is an easy way to look like you are scum-hunting when you aren't in reality, it's a real easy way to look town which is why I'm wary of people when they push bad lynches

and sure enough, the ones he advocated the most

were

anti-town reads over actually scummy actions. He still hasn't really explained what anything any of those people did were scummy, and he still didn't explain his read on Mastin and Aj


Right now?

I'm thinking

TIP, RC, AD, and maybe Metal Sonic

and, I kinda lost my town-read on you based on your over-interaction with Nero. I don't see how you could have saw post 3140 as anything other than a question, it almost feels like you have something to hide.

all of TIP's recent posts feel incredibly forced and I don't have any kind of idea where his town-reads lie, Except for maybe RC (though that's based on the fact that he's voting us for voting him and I don't know why he's town-reading us) and that is usually apparent at this time. This question to us voting RC looks forced, his questioning of NBH looks forced, and his interaction with Sonic is minimal. The fact that he's voting for someone who he doesn't think is scum? is kinda strange. It's teetering the line between scum and town TIP

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

...

Is that really reads on everyone, including dead people, as well as a vote on a dead person?

[Sugar Cain]

...

Is that really reads on everyone, including dead people, as well as a vote on a dead person?

This sounds lifted from the mafia chat but back night 1, when I was still in the hydra. How could anyone who has read the game at all think Jon is still in the game?

What is this? Did you not see MS' post?

[Sugar Cain]

And also, the reason Mara didn't switch our vote is 'cause we are both scum reading RC.

oh ok. Thanks Titus.

[Sugar Cain]

And also, the reason Mara didn't switch our vote is 'cause we are both scum reading RC.

oh ok. Thanks Titus.

[Sugar Cain]

This

Why is it scummy for Mara to "not consider Thor wrong"

but its ok and townie? for RC to not consider Mara/us wrong?

Don't put words in my mouth; I very obviously never even mentioned the underlined. Go ahead and quote what you are talking about.

and this

@nero: I don't like your tone right now; you're either trying to put words in my mouth again or bait me in some other way. Does my answer there necessitate my having a scum read on him for it? No it does not. Why ask that leading question?

He posts one liners and reacts defensively to shit. Great. The actual answer is: that is not enough information to determine a read. It is loose playstyle meta and by and large I don't consider that a reliable tell, especially considering you're not considering 1) a larger sample size or 2) what his town games look like or 3) other logistical things that make this game different from that one.

For example, can you differentiate the play there from =21370]this game?

If so, how?

Show's signs that you are maybe trying to hide something. All Nero did was ask questions and you automatically assume the worst? that he's trying to talk to you so that, later on he can use it as fuel against you over thinking that maybe he's doing it so he can figure out how you think better?

FTR, it is very easy to differentiate scum-TIP and town-TIP. In that newbie game, TIP was more open with his thoughts, more fluid and less concerned with how people think of him. The vibe he gives off is different, you can literally feel the tension coming off his posts when he is scum

We both find TIP to be scum, though I'm more Unsure of him. He's doing alot of classic TIP-scum posting, but he is also doing some Classic Town-TIP posting and, I'm guessing Nero dropped his read on TIP based on how people are pushing him this game


Yes, Nero did ask you if TIP's play was similar to that game, and you answered yes though he wanted to know if you thought that, because of the similarity between his play here and his play there, you thought he was scum.

You could have very easily have just given the second part of your answer, it would have been fine but town have no reason to feel like they are being interrogated, and they have no reason to worry about how their words are going to be used against them


As for the difference between anti-town and scummy play, anti-town play could easily come from a town player. Anti-town play, on the surface, doesn't have anything that helps town, and often looks like it's done to harm town but there isn't any scum intent in that kind of play. Scummy play has both that, AND scum intent. If you read through Matt's post, anyone experienced should be able to tell that Matty's intents were pure and thus, anti-town and not scummy.

I wanted to know why he thought the people he voted for were scummy, but all the reasons he gave were just people being anti-town. He hasn't explained the scum-intent found in any of the posts people he commented on, made.

Sure, People are entitled to reads but not when it detracts from the other person's scum-hunting. I had also already explained why I was scum-reading him before I changed it and I was leaving him alone yet, he was still trying to draw my attention.

Also, Why Mastin over us? You have been exerting a good amount of energy into arguing with us, but you havn't even made a case on Mastin, not trying to get people to vote for mastin. It doesn't look like you are really scum-reading him any more than you are scum-reading us. If you really are scum-reading us, and are willing to fight with us over mastin. willing to make a case against us, and not mastin, why don't you put your money where your mouth is?


Titus: MS's posts are crap, but I'm having a really, really hard time in seeing scum make a list with dead people in them the way he did. It makes me think that he really isn't paying as much attention to the game as he should, and that he's skimming way, way to fast. It's almost like he wants to contribute but struggles in doing so. As much as I suspected Pitoli, I'm unsure if I am able to get on board with MSscum

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

This

Why is it scummy for Mara to "not consider Thor wrong"

but its ok and townie? for RC to not consider Mara/us wrong?

Don't put words in my mouth; I very obviously never even mentioned the underlined. Go ahead and quote what you are talking about.

and this

@nero: I don't like your tone right now; you're either trying to put words in my mouth again or bait me in some other way. Does my answer there necessitate my having a scum read on him for it? No it does not. Why ask that leading question?

He posts one liners and reacts defensively to shit. Great. The actual answer is: that is not enough information to determine a read. It is loose playstyle meta and by and large I don't consider that a reliable tell, especially considering you're not considering 1) a larger sample size or 2) what his town games look like or 3) other logistical things that make this game different from that one.

For example, can you differentiate the play there from =21370]this game?

If so, how?

Show's signs that you are maybe trying to hide something. All Nero did was ask questions and you automatically assume the worst? that he's trying to talk to you so that, later on he can use it as fuel against you over thinking that maybe he's doing it so he can figure out how you think better?

FTR, it is very easy to differentiate scum-TIP and town-TIP. In that newbie game, TIP was more open with his thoughts, more fluid and less concerned with how people think of him. The vibe he gives off is different, you can literally feel the tension coming off his posts when he is scum

We both find TIP to be scum, though I'm more Unsure of him. He's doing alot of classic TIP-scum posting, but he is also doing some Classic Town-TIP posting and, I'm guessing Nero dropped his read on TIP based on how people are pushing him this game


Yes, Nero did ask you if TIP's play was similar to that game, and you answered yes though he wanted to know if you thought that, because of the similarity between his play here and his play there, you thought he was scum.

You could have very easily have just given the second part of your answer, it would have been fine but town have no reason to feel like they are being interrogated, and they have no reason to worry about how their words are going to be used against them


As for the difference between anti-town and scummy play, anti-town play could easily come from a town player. Anti-town play, on the surface, doesn't have anything that helps town, and often looks like it's done to harm town but there isn't any scum intent in that kind of play. Scummy play has both that, AND scum intent. If you read through Matt's post, anyone experienced should be able to tell that Matty's intents were pure and thus, anti-town and not scummy.

I wanted to know why he thought the people he voted for were scummy, but all the reasons he gave were just people being anti-town. He hasn't explained the scum-intent found in any of the posts people he commented on, made.

Sure, People are entitled to reads but not when it detracts from the other person's scum-hunting. I had also already explained why I was scum-reading him before I changed it and I was leaving him alone yet, he was still trying to draw my attention.

Also, Why Mastin over us? You have been exerting a good amount of energy into arguing with us, but you havn't even made a case on Mastin, not trying to get people to vote for mastin. It doesn't look like you are really scum-reading him any more than you are scum-reading us. If you really are scum-reading us, and are willing to fight with us over mastin. willing to make a case against us, and not mastin, why don't you put your money where your mouth is?


Titus: MS's posts are crap, but I'm having a really, really hard time in seeing scum make a list with dead people in them the way he did. It makes me think that he really isn't paying as much attention to the game as he should, and that he's skimming way, way to fast. It's almost like he wants to contribute but struggles in doing so. As much as I suspected Pitoli, I'm unsure if I am able to get on board with MSscum

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Oh do me do me
You know my play better than anyone I reckon

that hurts...

Nacho, what is your read on Thor?

~sugar

[Sugar Cain]

all of TIP's recent posts feel incredibly forced and I don't have any kind of idea where his town-reads lie, Except for maybe RC (though that's based on the fact that he's voting us for voting him and I don't know why he's town-reading us) and that is usually apparent at this time. This question to us voting RC looks forced, his questioning of NBH looks forced, and his interaction with Sonic is minimal. The fact that he's voting for someone who he doesn't think is scum? is kinda strange. It's teetering the line between scum and town TIP

[Sugar Cain]

I think it would be pretty bastardly to give only the town ways to interact with the horde. I really hate it that you are dancing around this possibility when its seems like common sense.

I also hate the fact that you are seemingly defending NBH but also arguing and calling it scum.

No, you are implying that NBH has to be a scum herder. I am saying that there could very easily be a scum herder in addition to NBH and Toog.

Thank you so much for telling me what I think. I get so scatterbrained sometimes and don't know what the fuck I write. True, my gut reaction was to vote NBH though 3017 was just a general statement that I don't think that town are the only ones with abilities to affect the horde. Now to me, herder seems like a limited vig. So you think we have atleast 2 town herders, a baiter AND a town vig.

As I've said at least three times already and will continue to say as long as I keep being misrepresented. I see NBH as town based on their claim alone, but there's also something to be said for them taking credit for the chess kill. Now, maybe they're just bsing and chess was killed by pure coincidence so they jumped on it, but you have to look at it from the perspective of "what are the odds" and make an educated decision. bork had a pretty good argument on Michonne being a fakeclaim, but that's just a tough pill for me to swallow. Michonne is pretty damn central to the plot. Arguably the fourth most important character of Season 3 behind Rick, Carl, and maybe Daryl/Glenn.

So anyone with a main character is town? I think the way you are fence sitting on NBH is scummy as all get out. You have a town read on said slot for the claim but in some post somewhere you said "I'd be all over you if you weren't voting MS." So you are paranoid about the slot. Ok that would be cool if you didn't call OUR paranoia scummy. Why would you call us scummy for something you yourself are doing?

[Sugar Cain]

By the way, an Amrun kill screams Metal Sonic scum.

Amrun was killed by walkers, she was not a scum kill unless you are claiming to have sent walkers her way which is what this sounds like to me.

[Sugar Cain]

RC, can I get your reads on a few players.

Bork?
AD?
TIP?

[Sugar Cain]

oh and mastintoo?

See what I did thar?

[Sugar Cain]

And you know that OMML was not blocked 'cause ________?

[Sugar Cain]

By the way, an Amrun kill screams Metal Sonic scum.

Amrun was killed by walkers, she was not a scum kill unless you are claiming to have sent walkers her way which is what this sounds like to me.

No, I am not claiming to have sent walkers. I think it's pretty well established that scum likely have influence over the walkers too.

ok and? You know that was the scumkill exactly how? Do you think kills process in the same order each night?

[Sugar Cain]

Yo Nero, wanna have a few beers after this?

given that you are not within the legal drinking age...no.

[Sugar Cain]

Yo Nero, wanna have a few beers after this?

given that you are not within the legal drinking age...no.

[Sugar Cain]

I'll drink as long as it's something sweet.

RC, why is Mastin scummy?

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

ok and? You know that was the scumkill exactly how? Do you think kills process in the same order each night?

Where did I imply that I know anything about the scumkill?

I said an Amrun kill very much lends credit to Metal Sonic scum.
You said that the kill was by walkers, and that the only way those walkers could have been influenced was if I sent them myself.
I explained that I did not claim that whatsoever, but that it's expected that the scum have a herder.

I am making an educated guess. I don't know that it was a scumkill, but I am saying that if it was, Amrun fits the bill for someone Metal Sonic scum would want to have gotten rid of.

Are you trolling me?!?

If you have the belief that MS is scum and that the death of Amrun points that then yes you are claiming that you think Amrum was a scumkill.

Why do you think the Amrun kill points to MS scum but the Trust Fund kill doesn't point to Titus scum?

[Sugar Cain]

Mastin, we both have scum reads on RC so we don't you sheep me?

[Sugar Cain]

If you didn't really read it how do you know its honest?

[Sugar Cain]

I read my own part. and that was a good assessment

oh God. This reminds me so much of Politics Mafia were Locke Lamora calls his scumbuddy Philamon scum and Phil was like "hey that's a good assessment"

[Sugar Cain]

I read my own part. and that was a good assessment

oh God. This reminds me so much of Politics Mafia were Locke Lamora calls his scumbuddy Philamon scum and Phil was like "hey that's a good assessment"

that's cool

0 relevance to this game.

What was I thinking here? Nope, no scum ever flips for the same reasons which also means scumtells don't exist. Thank you Dan for showing me the error in my ways.

[Sugar Cain]

well I dunno you seem to not understand about 3 fundamentals differences:

1) Your "scum-tell" only works if both people are scum so you need a flip of at least one first, which you don't have.
2) RC's paragraph on me cited around 1 billion town things I did as well as his particular complaints which he thought were scummy
3) "hey that's a good assessment" translates into "that's really an honest effort" since the town points were included. I'm not about to say something is good if it's all about me being scum.

1. ok and? I should wait to voice my option until after one of you two are dead b/c why?
2. He said he liked you being open and he liked one of your posts but I don't see why that matters.
3. ???? Its honest 'cause he listed townie things about you? So if he hadn't listed townie things about you it would have been dishonest?

[Sugar Cain]

TIP, since you are bored. What are your thoughts on RC?

[Sugar Cain]

Titus, why you been so quiet lately?

[Sugar Cain]

RC, when did I say you were fence sitting on Matt?

[Sugar Cain]

no not really. Matt hasn't full claimed but you think his claim is town?

[Sugar Cain]

perv, thor, matt sugar cain, borky can you guys plz vote metal

maybe. We both have a scum read on RC and thus are wary of the MS lynch but we don't think RC would bus his buddy that hard. Though, I don't like MS. I think he's a VI and hard to read and a lynch on him would be a shot in the dark me thinks but he's not really someone I'd want around in lylo.

[Sugar Cain]

but his reads are sickening.

Considering that my scum reads are

RC/MS
Bork
Titus
maybe you

and OGML as a possible sk

I don't see what's so bad but w/e it made me laugh so I'm good.

[Sugar Cain]

What makes you think we have more than 1 scum team, TIP?

[Sugar Cain]

Right well, Mara and I haven't really been communicating but I'm here and I'll do some posting about RC and MS tomorrow.

Both Mara and I have a town read on Mastin and I don't really get the case on him. Is it 'cause he's lurking and tunneling AD? I don't think those are alignment indicative.

[Sugar Cain]

Sugar Cain, mastin's reads should tell all you need to know about it. They are crap.

I don't see anything wrong with 3401 though I do wish he'd go into detail about your "bad day 3 posting."

[Sugar Cain]

I mean, the only thing that makes me slightly wary of Mastin is my (our, we share it) scum read on RC. Mastin has said that he's trying to not bus as scum and yelled at me for bussin' KBW in Voided Nightless. I vaguely remember him having a tendency to RVS his buddies.

[Sugar Cain]

No surprise here but I disagree with Sangres. I don't like these posts from Titus at all.

If kills were counted, we can infer that there is most likely a roleblocker in the game. I can't see doctors healing Mastin either. I doubt OMGL would lie about who he shot (although it is possible) plus there's the lack of a mafia kill that suggests a roleblocker.

This doesn't make sense to me. OMGL claims to have shot at Mastin, the kill doesn't go through and Mastin says he has no way of stopping a kill. So this means that Mastin has to be scum? I don't get it.

We had three walker kills last night

unless the mod implied something inaccurately

. So, i higly doubt both MattP and OMGL are vigs. OMGL hit mastin, which could mean bulletproof. MattP hasn't announced his target. Maybe one of the two got healed/duplicated the night kill but something isn't right for three killers to all miss.

And here he's just putting pressure on Matt and OGML. I think the fact that none of the kills went through points more towards a mechanic then anything. One thing I was kinda thinkin' about is that all the kills DID go through and the fact that we were overran by walkers last night meant all the kills were herded.

OMGL's play makes sense. I can't see anyone healing Mastin so that implies that Mastin2 likely has a vest of some sort. Voting him, worst case scenario, lose a bp. Best case lynch vested/immune scum.

Mastin didn't die. I don't think the fact that he didn't die points to Mastin being scum.

[Sugar Cain]

I made 3175 before OMGL announced who he killed. Given his statements about me being scum occurred a whole lot, I figured I was his shot target.

Ummmm...considering that 3175 is about OGML targeting Mastin and Mastin not dying I don't see how you can legit believe that OGML hadn't claimed his shot yet.

+ he claimed in 3127.

I did put pressure on MattP and OMGL for the reasons described. I expected a lot more deaths. Three shooters were unaccounted for and that irked me. It still does.

if that irked you, why did you say nothing about NBH?

SugarCain, if Mastin didn't die, that points to one of three scenarios 1) Mastin has a vest 2) Mastin is scum and someone roleblocked OMGL 3) OMGL didn't shoot Mastin. If 1 isn't true, then most likely either Mastin or OMGL is lying. There is a chance of a town roleblocker hitting OMGL though.

Why does it have to be a town roleblocker? Its not possible for a scum blocker to have blocked OGML b/c?

[Sugar Cain]

If kills were counted, we can infer that there is most likely a roleblocker in the game.

I can't see doctors healing Mastin either. I doubt OMGL would lie about who he shot

(although it is possible) plus there's the lack of a mafia kill that suggests a roleblocker.

Ok, I thought via context.

????

There's no way you wrote that and then thought that was about you thinkin' that you were shot at.

[Sugar Cain]

Can you quote the post where RC was mod confirmed town?

[Sugar Cain]

You scums are so cute trying to back each other up and keep RC lynchable.

the idiot act is so cute OGML.

[Sugar Cain]

You scums are so cute trying to back each other up and keep RC lynchable.

the idiot act is so cute OGML.

This should go in the textbook as a perfect example of

ad hominem

.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

[Sugar Cain]

You scums are so cute trying to back each other up and keep RC lynchable.

the idiot act is so cute OGML.

This should go in the textbook as a perfect example of

ad hominem

.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

[Sugar Cain]

This is something I really want nacho's input about. He really really thinks dan is town. And his mastin vote was fueled by mastin's tunneling dan.

Maybe I'm not remembering things correctly but didn't Mastin tunnel PV in Pikman mafia?

[Sugar Cain]

I think Tip's townish now

I'll catch up with what I missed sometime tomorrow when I have the time

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

By the way, if you want to prove vig status, I am perfectly fine with being shot. It's a waste because I'm town but I'd rather get the vig discussion out of the way.

Why do you want to be shot over your scumreads?

+

There's maybe a roleblocker and thus a vig sho wouldn't pose a threat to you 'cause ya'll could just block it.

[Sugar Cain]

How am I posturing?

[Sugar Cain]

I'd also be willing to flashwagon Sugar Cain.

I'd be up for that if you'd be willing to die when we flip town.

[Sugar Cain]

10. OhGodMyLife: Vig, Serial Killer, I don't care, this guy is shit

[Sugar Cain]

TIP, can you redo you list in order from most town to scummies plox?

[Sugar Cain]

@mollie

How am I posturing?

[Sugar Cain]

cabd nk: there were a lot of other players less likely to be protected too, his nk points to a direct link which is you and titus.

This is one of the things that troubles us with RC. Other than his "Amrun kill points to MSscum" being really forced. We find it odd that he's looking at THAT kill but not the TF kill.

[Sugar Cain]

@mollie

How am I posturing?

well, you were. you were speaking from a premise that isn't fully supported so

are you ready to give up your campaign against rc yet

I still don't understand how that's posturing. Titus said he was okay with getting shot to prove the vig exist when...OGML could just shoot her scum reads. I don't really see a reason to volunteer for being vigged.

What made you town read RC?

[Sugar Cain]

naw. She was still kinda on the fence about him AFTER said post so he did something later on.

[Sugar Cain]

vote:MS

[Sugar Cain]

vote:MS

[Sugar Cain]

VOTE: Peregrine

Dude, guys

TIP is town, leave him alone

mollie, after what happened in Mylo will you trust me on that read please?

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

TIP, love

I agree with you on AD, or did however Nacho did just pull up a pretty nice post on him and I need to reconsider that read and he probably isn't scum

[Sugar Cain]

no, it is tippy whom you were already scumreading. tippy has been on the site for a less amount of time so people are less attached to him.

Please just trust me on TIP Mollie

[Sugar Cain]

That shit is weak, Matt. I've been in games where the th role pm hints at another of the same role being in the game. I also think mods like to troll town and put multiple of the same role in town to get em all paranoid.

I think, game wise, it would be kinda bastardly to not give scum a role that could affect the horde so I could buy 3 herders. 2 town + 1 scum. And there was this weird as fuck thing from RC yesterday about Amrun being the scum kill.

Mollie said something stupid/scummy yesterday but its Mollie so yeah...I guess its possible that Chess was a normal Walker kill and DGB took advantage of it and claimed it for the town cred. +DGB hasn't called me scum yet.

Anyways, Ima work on my RC case and see if that sticks.

[Sugar Cain]

That shit is weak, Matt. I've been in games where the th role pm hints at another of the same role being in the game. I also think mods like to troll town and put multiple of the same role in town to get em all paranoid.

I think, game wise, it would be kinda bastardly to not give scum a role that could affect the horde so I could buy 3 herders. 2 town + 1 scum. And there was this weird as fuck thing from RC yesterday about Amrun being the scum kill.

Mollie said something stupid/scummy yesterday but its Mollie so yeah...I guess its possible that Chess was a normal Walker kill and DGB took advantage of it and claimed it for the town cred. +DGB hasn't called me scum yet.

Anyways, Ima work on my RC case and see if that sticks.

[Sugar Cain]

'cause I called your shit weak?

grow the fuck up, dude.

[Sugar Cain]

No silly I'm not Mara I can't read you

But I am, and even if we were scum I probably wouldn't lie about TIP's alignment

Thor's been after us all game, why are you sheeping him now?

[Sugar Cain]

and, aside from being flawed, that scumputer is missing aloooooot of people

[Sugar Cain]

At any rate, Nero might argue against this, but I wouldn't be to incredibly apposed to dying but I don't think it's optimal

Metal sonic is probably town
TIP is town
Sangres is town
Matt is town
Brains is town
I still think Titus is town
We are town
OGML is probably town

That would put the scum pool down to any of these three

RedCoyote
Desperado
PeregrineV
Mastin2
Actiondan
Thor665

I still strongly feel that RC scum
I think I was thinking the same things as Desperado earlier which means he is probably town
Mastin I still think he might be town, though that read is kinda stale
Thor is reminding me of Mafiableh, he was town there
I don't have a damn clue to why Perev is still alive, and why he's gone this far without any kind of suspicion. I feel like he's lurking his way through the game
and I can't really see how Actiondan was GODTOWN at all, though I do like Sangres's case on them earlier

so, of the six, I would most like to lynch RC or Peregrine which should have happened yesterday anyway

and I need to resort Desperado and Mastin as I feel the other scum is prooobbably in there

Thor (Despite my strong suspicion on him earlier) and AD is going to get a pass for now

[Sugar Cain]

The slot complained that I was treating them as a unified entity and suggested it was scummy how I did so, basically saying that because I scumread the actions of half the heads that it was unfair to call the slot scummy unless I could also call the other head scummy as well.

We did no such thing

and by we, I mean me

but I'm pretty sure Nero didn't say anything to this degree and the closest thing to that would be me asking you why you aren't considering the differing opinions between the heads, but I have not even come close to using that as fuel to call you scum

[Sugar Cain]

The slot complained that I was treating them as a unified entity and suggested it was scummy how I did so, basically saying that because I scumread the actions of half the heads that it was unfair to call the slot scummy unless I could also call the other head scummy as well.

We did no such thing

and by we, I mean me

but I'm pretty sure Nero didn't say anything to this degree and the closest thing to that would be me asking you why you aren't considering the differing opinions between the heads, but I have not even come close to using that as fuel to call you scum

I'm fairly certain I said nothing like that either. I said something along the lines of "everything you're scumreading us for are things Mara said" but that's no where near "haha you can't read our slot as scum and YOU are scummy for scumreading one head."

[Sugar Cain]

Pretty much everything in your "case" is stuff Mara did.

That...excuses it?

no, what excuses it is that I have a town pm but I just wanted to point out that everyone is scumreading the posts by Mara.

I think Thor is referring to this. Yea, this post is not what you think this post is.

[Sugar Cain]

Thor, OGML-We are town. Time to go tunnel on someone else.

I have no fucking clue what Matt was doing earlier when he voted us. 3725 wasn't "nothing" as he put it.

But I do have a serious question for Thor.

Who says I haven't suspected AJ? My reads are still developing. I'd rather shut up and watch but given the fact people are FoSing me over stuff I never claimed (mason and vig), I've found it a little difficult to direct conversation to really investigate AJ.

I call bs, you were all like "ZOMG THERE'S SCUM ON MY WAGON" and then gave a list of reads that was us, GIF,OGML despite AJ sitting on your wagon.


Here's what I thought was a mason soft claim.

AH, so you plan to clutter up the thread with useless theory discussion.

On one hand we have caught Jon Doe scum and on the other we have my desire to kill Matt. Decisions, decisions.

I can prove you wrong on us with one sentence that would be verified by at least one player. I'll save that for when its needed but I'm sure that player is already rolling his eyes and cursing under his breath.

You should prob go ahead and fakeclaim.

That's a Wayne Post.

Why should I claim now? I can say what he would have said but I don't really feel like claiming ATM. I'm not going to claim solely because someone says I should.

This is effectively what we are being scumread for. Why is it scummy for me to point out that you are scumreading us for what Mara said but its not scummy for them to do the same thing?

[Sugar Cain]

I don't really like a Mastin lynch.

We still both think RC is scum and I'll eventfully get my case up on him and you guys can decide if its crap or w/e.

Out of that list I'd be ok with a Titus and maybe MS lynch.

[Sugar Cain]

@Sugar - that is nothing like what my issue with you is. One head had decided to softclaim slightly, and the other head didn't want to explicitly full claim at your demand. Even if the softclaim head was still there it's not like they had remotely indicated desire to full claim - so this is not a viable rebuttal or even counter example.

You had a scum read on us (but its not like that's why you were scumreading us to begin with) 'cause I said that you were scumreading us for Mara's posting. YOU said this was scummy 'cause "trying to obligate people to read them separately as a defense for issues raised with their possting."

Yet when I pointed out what looked like a mason softclaim, Titus was all "oh that was Wayne" which is that

EXACT

same thing you are calling us on so try again. Why is it not scummy?

You also

LIED

about us calling you scummy for suspecting one head.

[Sugar Cain]

You had a scum read on us (but its not like that's why you were scumreading us to begin with) 'cause I said that you were scumreading us for Mara's posting. YOU said this was scummy 'cause "trying to obligate people to read them separately as a defense for issues raised with their possting."

Yet when I pointed out what looked like a mason softclaim, Titus was all "oh that was Wayne" which is that

EXACT

same thing you are calling us on so try again. Why is it not scummy?

You also

LIED

about us calling you scummy for suspecting one head.

1. It is not the same thing. It's not scummy because refusing to full claim after making a softclaim that indicated they didn't want to fullclaim isn't inherently scummy in any way at all.

2. I did not lie - if you think I did to the point you need to bold it to show your outrage than vote me. You are scum.

1. Yea, its the same thing.

Example of Thor finding Sugar scum

Thor:Sugar is scum for X, Y, Z
Nero head:all those are things Mara said

Example of Sugar finding Titus scum

Nero head:I think you/your slot is scummy for this.
Titus: That's something that Wayne posted.

2. quote the post where I/this slot accused you of being scum for reading one head as scum. I don't remember saying anything like that and I don't think Mara has either but I'll drop it once you quote it.

[Sugar Cain]

whoops!

further more, why are you melding mine, and Nero's actions together when I am making it obvious as to who is doing what?

yeah, we are a hydra and we share one alignment but we are still two separate people who think two totally separate things.

That?

I don't see where Mara called you scum for it. I'll just assume that it never happened and you are making up shit since you refuse to quote it and want me to dig.

Start us off by nameclaiming TIP.

[Sugar Cain]

whoops!

further more, why are you melding mine, and Nero's actions together when I am making it obvious as to who is doing what?

yeah, we are a hydra and we share one alignment but we are still two separate people who think two totally separate things.

That?

I don't see where Mara called you scum for it. I'll just assume that it never happened and you are making up shit since you refuse to quote it and want me to dig.

Start us off by nameclaiming TIP.

[Sugar Cain]

Mastin, have tip claim after you.

[Sugar Cain]

Why is Mastin scummy for tunneling on Action Dan but Thor is not scummy for tunneling on us?

[Sugar Cain]

Why is Mastin scummy for tunneling on Action Dan but Thor is not scummy for tunneling on us?

[Sugar Cain]

Why is Mastin scummy for tunneling on Action Dan but Thor is not scummy for tunneling on us?

ummm no.

I had asked about why Mastin was scum a few pages back and I don't think anyone answered. As far as I can tell Mastin is being suspected as scum 'cause he's lurking/not very active and was tunneling on AD. It doesn't make sense to me that his tunneling is scummy while you've done practically nothing all game but tunnel us but its not scummy? I just need someone to explain the difference in the two is all.

[Sugar Cain]

Why is Mastin scummy for tunneling on Action Dan but Thor is not scummy for tunneling on us?

This is such a Mastin/Sugar scumteam post

shut up, Shane.

[Sugar Cain]

Hey

if we are aiming to get another mislynch today, why don't we go after someone who is practically conf. town?

VOTE: Matt

~Sugar

[Sugar Cain]

Or maybe, we could go after someone who is a PR but is so incredibly dense that, without that PR he would probably be scum otherwise

someone who is making scum-teams that obviously do not make any sense at all whatsoever

VOTE: OGML

~Sugar