The Walking Dead Mafia! ( Game Over )

[Titus]

No. I have no capability to kill either. Like I mentioned, my FORMER other head had a lot of conflict with trust fund that I disagreed with. I have no ability to kill.

Waynegg was ejected. I'm playing on alone.

[Titus]

And Jon doe, that answer grows old. Find out why one of you did something so stupid, explain why, and start signing your damn posts.

If the post wasn't signed or having arrows to it having me claim it, my other head did it. I find it annoying when Hydras don't sign.

[Titus]

Sugar and OGML are both consistent with how the nightkills went down.

WHAT is this?


This is basically, after the Trust Fund flip, I would expect scum to start attacking us hard for no reason. Given the fact both of you have voted us, you being scum is consistent with my view of how the nightkills went down.

Sugar's voting pattern has been erratic at best.

So that's the only reason you suspect us other than "Sugar and GIF being the most talked about in the thread"

Absolutely not. Wayne laid down the meta case against GiF. As for you, your over the top reactions and general behavior in the thread make me paranoid enough. Then, there is Thor's case which is decent but I don't fully trust Thor. I have bigger fish to fry than you. I might change my mind in the mean time.

Over the top reactions and general behavior? Way to be vague. Yes, Thor and Amrun calling us scum out the fucking blue with little or no reasoning was pretty derptastic. AJ selectively scumhunting us was pretty bad, too. I'm going to react but I don't think my reaction to ANYTHING has been over the top.

This sounds like an opinion bordering on an discredit. If you have a question, please rephrase.

Also note, that our hydra was scumreading John Doe on day 1 as well. Their claim that they are being attacked over the Trust Fund kill is stupid stupid stupid.

Why you think that scum would attack you over the TF kill?

Who are your top 4 scum reads?

Scum attack over the TF kill makes sense. The process goes as follows, kill a failed lynch train, claim the biggest player pushing the train is scum, find whatever reason you can to FoS that player and try to link the kill to them. I figured I'd preempt the scums by highlighting this is a likely play.

Sugar, GiF, and OMGL are my big three. I don't have a fourth yet. My other head, before he vanished, liked Thor. I keep going back and forth on him though.

[Titus]

I don't agree with myself that I'm full of it. Your expressed opinion (if you can call it that) is that I'm lying. I brought up the claim, knowing what would likely happen and you're claiming it's a personal attack on you? The theory is that scum would be SOMEWHERE on the people who were going to show up to attack me. Again, you take it personally. Yet, you wonder why I say you're overreacting.

[Titus]

**God even answering that got twisted. I don't agree with your opinion that I'm full of it.

[Titus]

Again, you take it personally. Yet, you wonder why I say you're overreacting.

YOU

are calling us scum. I think your arguments are bullshit and strange. I think your claim that I'm taking things "personally" is strange, don't you defend yourself as town?

The thing is, I don't need to defend myself. It's day 2, I'm putting out theories and moving the group forward. So yeah. You on the other hand, you feel this unconscious desire to attack anyone who FoSes you, discredit and not even bother to try to help you.

I do agree with one thing though. Strange adequately represents our major hydra dissonance. If you didn't feel threatened, you could just simply dismiss me. Yet, you do feel threatened despite the fact I'm not even on your train.

There's plenty of actual material here though. I was trying not to go into many many rounds of back and forth. You, however, seem hellbent on making that happen.

I'm not really interested in rushing the day like you derpwads did yesterday. I know that our vote doesn't mean he'll be lynched ASAP but I also don't see a reason to move it right this second.

Not so subtle disavowing of the train. He says it went too fast but he himself is on the train.

Aj, I voted SK Because I thought there was a decent chance that they were scum, and even if they weren't I didn't think they wouldn't have been missed.

Yes, I did say I didn't like the wagon speed, but I didn't really look at what compromised it. Toogers was the only person on that wagon that I thought even had a remote chance of being scum, out of everyone else who was on it before me

and yes, I didn't want to read a billion pages worth of D1, and I wanted to have the night time to re-read the thread. I thought it was Kinda hard to follow the thread during the day when everyone was posting like mad-men.

~Sugar

ohhaidere DBG

This post is fake on many counts. Even if he doesn't understand, he's fully capable of unvoting. The message behind this post is the day is going to end, I don't understand, so I'll make it end faster because I don't want to read this shit.

Also, Sugar Cain says "Toogers" was the only person he thought capable of being scum.

What the fuck is this shit? Not surprised that Amrun was willing to vote us but Thor, fucking Thor. You are better than this.

Another example of a total overreaction. An experienced player FoSed me at some point, better lose my lid. Oh and I don't think I can paint Thor as scum so shit. I have to say he's sucking.

Matt, Amrun, What do you think about Thor?

~Sugar

Pedit: I'm not sure what to think of that slot anymore Matt. Jon Doe is really easy to go after because both heads are scummy by nature, thats just who they are. Mean while, we have two fairly strong players already going after somewhat easy attacks, not really comprehending the game the way town should and make weird as fuck comments on the behaviors that aren't "scum-hunting" behavior

He himself says the former we are easy to go after. So when we FoS him and don't back down, he has this reaction trying to paint us (now me) as scum. He says my theory about scum pushing a lynch on my slot is crap but says we're an easy lynch. Talk about dissonance much?

[Titus]

Just ISOed him and that's a horrendous ISO. Is that par for his course? Is he a really bad newbie?

[Titus]

2009 join date does not equal skill. Someone can play a game, leave for two years and come back. I have not meta on that. So I ask.

[Titus]

mastin town.

Why does a list make someone town?

[Titus]

mastin town.

Why does a list make someone town?

Why would you assume this?

You follow someone's list with a one line post saying that player is town. Naturally, I assume you're saying that player is town because of his list. So I wonder why.

[Titus]

2009 join date does not equal skill. Someone can play a game, leave for two years and come back. I have not meta on that. So I ask.

I don't think this matters. I don't think town goes "hey guize, is this really scummy or is he just a bad player." It really looks like a discredit attempt of a potential Eli wagon.

Figuring things out for myself =/= discredit of a wagon. If Eli had years of active experience and this wasn't his meta, he'd be labeled as pretty damn scummy.

[Titus]

What was your reaction to Eli's ISO?

Who is this to?

[Titus]

??????

Come back Titus.

My reaction was that the iso was horrible.Either he's bad town or scum. Should have been obvious.

[Titus]

@Cain, town because those types of isos come back as town more often than not. I don't really know though.

He seems radically different from the newbie game I played with him. Yet it appears he is scumhunting, so neutral right now. Leaning town.

[Titus]

@Thor And I wish Cain didn't think the world revolved around me.

[Titus]

@Cain, town because those types of isos come back as town more often than not. I don't really know though.

He seems radically different from the newbie game I played with him. Yet it appears he is scumhunting, so neutral right now. Leaning town.

So if you felt he was town then why did you feel the need to ask about his meta?[/b] --- Applies to Thor. Alignment was town.

What was his alignment in the newbie game?

This also seems like a disconnect, you've played with Elii before but you asked if he was a newbie?

I am also very very very concerned with your claim that Eli is scumhunting...'cause he's not ITT.

Sorry. That's my poor clarity. The newbie line applies to THOR.

Reread now.

[Titus]

Guys, I understand that Titus nee Jon Doe is a v distracting thing, v shiny, v vote magnet, and maybe that thing is also scum.

But can everyone please address the point that if Trust Fund is a vig kill, Titus is unlikely to be scum, and if Trust fund is a scum kill, the opposite is true?

That's why I think we should wait and let the kills sort that out. Thx for your time, please come again.

VOTE: elli

Things have happened since page 57, even, and you're still a fluff storm.

Bad theory. I didn't kill anyone, nor did my other head.

[Titus]

if Trust Fund is a vig kill, Titus is unlikely to be scum, and if Trust fund is a scum kill, the opposite is true?

Please elaborate.

Pretty obvious. Amrun's assuming my slot killed Trust Fund, even though that's been the opposite of everything that's come out of my mouth.

[Titus]

I did not kill anyone last night.

[Titus]

If TF is a scum kill, why would you be scum?

I wouldn't be. Amrun is saying I would be because he's assuming I did kill Trust Fund. Assuming I killed TF, then whatever alignment killed TF, I'd have to be. It's all circular, requiring his assumption be true.

[Titus]

If TF is a scum kill, why would you be scum?

I wouldn't be. Amrun is saying I would be because he's assuming I did kill Trust Fund. Assuming I killed TF, then whatever alignment killed TF, I'd have to be. It's all circular, requiring his assumption be true.

Try reading once in awhile. Novel concept, I know.

We submitted at the same time.

[Titus]

But can everyone please address the point that if Trust Fund is a vig kill, Titus is unlikely to be scum, and if Trust fund is a scum kill, the opposite is true?

Lets just pretend that TF is a vig kill, how does that make Titus less likely to be scum?

I find it an unlikely line of thought to come from scum who knows Majiffy was the real scumkill, and very little motivation to fake.

p-edit: Thor, NBH sk/vig thing is irrelevant to the game because I think, given the mechanic, an sk is silly. I think anyone else would conclude that too.

I got pulled away from the computer before posting this so probably a million posts.

p-edit 2: No, I'm not assuming your slot killed Trust Fund, Titus... Sigh.

If Majiffy was the scumkill AND your slot was scum, I don't think you would have shared the analysis about TF in thread, real or otherwise.

If Trust Fund was the kill AND your slot was scum, I think you'd be more likely to share this "analysis," because you have inside information.

In the latter case, you are not automatically scum, but your chances increase. In the former, I think it's unlikely that you are scum.

And where is the thought process assuming I am town? You're assuming I am scum and that's driving your thought processes. The motivation is there if town because I'm stating the obvious. TF and my other former head got into it, BAD. Someone killing him and then pressuring me for the kill is exactly what I would expect scum to do.

[Titus]

The thing is, I don't need to defend myself.

Why not? If you're town then you have no one to defend yourself but you but then again you softclaimed a mason type thing.

I never intended anything I said to be a softclaim of mason.

You on the other hand, you feel this unconscious desire to attack anyone who FoSes you, discredit and not even bother to try to help you.

Isn't think a bit hypocritical considering that you are all "ZOMG, THERE HAZ 2 BEE SCUM EN MY WAGON!!!" Why are you calling me scummy for something you yourself are doing? Though, I should point out (to any players that are reading this) he is calling everyone scum on her wagon but AJ. I've asked her why she's doing this but I'm being ignored.

Is there a question here?

If you didn't feel threatened, you could just simply dismiss me. Yet, you do feel threatened despite the fact I'm not even on your train.

You don't think town react to bullshit accusations? So your accusation seems forced.
+
you are calling me scum, so why are you against me telling you why your accusations are wrong and trying to get you to not mislynch or do you just not care who gets lynched?

I don't understand this. I have told you your accusations are wrong.

I'm not really interested in rushing the day like you derpwads did yesterday. I know that our vote doesn't mean he'll be lynched ASAP but I also don't see a reason to move it right this second.

Not so subtle disavowing of the train. He says it went too fast but he himself is on the train.

Its hydra dis, yes. I don't think day1 should have ended so soon. Do you think hydra dis is scummy?

Hydra dis isn't scummy. However, you are using it as a catchall excuse for inconsistencies within the same post. One post, one author, therefore hydra dissonance usually doesn't apply.

Aj, I voted SK Because I thought there was a decent chance that they were scum, and even if they weren't I didn't think they wouldn't have been missed.

Yes, I did say I didn't like the wagon speed, but I didn't really look at what compromised it. Toogers was the only person on that wagon that I thought even had a remote chance of being scum, out of everyone else who was on it before me

and yes, I didn't want to read a billion pages worth of D1, and I wanted to have the night time to re-read the thread. I thought it was Kinda hard to follow the thread during the day when everyone was posting like mad-men.

~Sugar

ohhaidere DBG

This post is fake on many counts. Even if he doesn't understand, he's fully capable of unvoting. The message behind this post is the day is going to end, I don't understand, so I'll make it end faster because I don't want to read this shit.

Also, Sugar Cain says "Toogers" was the only person he thought capable of being scum.

Mara isn't a he, I mean Mara could be a guy pretending to be a girl, I haven't seen "her" and she refuses to tell me "her" name but for all intents and purposes, I assume its a chick. So why are you pretending to attribute this post to me?

I attributed the post to your hydra. I don't distinguish between heads who don't sign their posts.

What the fuck is this shit? Not surprised that Amrun was willing to vote us but Thor, fucking Thor. You are better than this.

Another example of a total overreaction. An experienced player FoSed me at some point, better lose my lid. Oh and I don't think I can paint Thor as scum so shit. I have to say he's sucking.

Again, your "Nero iz overreacting!" Is forced bullshit. I mean Thor is all "hey, I don't like these other wagons, vote: this guy" "Why r they scum, Thor?" "I dunno, here lemme go make a case." And then Amrun is all like "Yeah, Thor's attack on Sugar is crapola but I'm still gonna consider a lynch on Sugar."

I mean, SRS. You wouldn't "WTF" to that?

What did you think of Thor's progression of his attack on us?

I generally don't WTF to being FoSed. I consider that flailing.

Thor's progression was fine by me.

Matt, Amrun, What do you think about Thor?

~Sugar

Pedit: I'm not sure what to think of that slot anymore Matt. Jon Doe is really easy to go after because both heads are scummy by nature, thats just who they are. Mean while, we have two fairly strong players already going after somewhat easy attacks, not really comprehending the game the way town should and make weird as fuck comments on the behaviors that aren't "scum-hunting" behavior

He himself says the former we are easy to go after. So when we FoS him and don't back down, he has this reaction trying to paint us (now me) as scum. He says my theory about scum pushing a lynch on my slot is crap but says we're an easy lynch. Talk about dissonance much?

There's a few things wrong with this. We were attacking you on day 1 so I don't get why you are trying to make it look like we didn't attack you until after you attacked us. You might fool lazy town but any competent town will see you are lying. This is like the second time that I've told you that we were attacking you before today, so why do you refuse to listen? And again, we are a hydra and it should be painfully obvious that I am not SUGAR. Soooo...are you normally this unwilling to adapt and receive new information?

Sign your posts more frequently if you want me to determine between heads. I'm not going to try and decipher that crap.

[Titus]

Why am I being voted because some guy claimed vig? I never said I killed anyone because I didn't. Brains specifically told me not to claim/not claim so I put it off as long as I could.

[Titus]

Who says I haven't suspected AJ? My reads are still developing. I'd rather shut up and watch but given the fact people are FoSing me over stuff I never claimed (mason and vig), I've found it a little difficult to direct conversation to really investigate AJ.

[Titus]

Titus, who is your strongest townread?

Tie between Sanges and Brains.

Sanges has largely stayed out of the massive scum driven conflict and asked probing questions not intended to jump down throats but gain information. He's pretty much doing the play I wish I could be doing.

Brains has recognized what OGML was doing and called him out on that crap. He doesn't let his scum reads escape to lurkerville with that crap.

VOTE: unvote

Realized my vote was on the vig claimer. That's not a good idea IMO. His claim does explain why he assumed the Trust Fund was the scum kill.

[Titus]

Who says I haven't suspected AJ? My reads are still developing. I'd rather shut up and watch but given the fact people are FoSing me over stuff I never claimed (mason and vig), I've found it a little difficult to direct conversation to really investigate AJ.

I call bs, you were all like "ZOMG THERE'S SCUM ON MY WAGON" and then gave a list of reads that was us, GIF,OGML despite AJ sitting on your wagon.


Here's what I thought was a mason soft claim.

AH, so you plan to clutter up the thread with useless theory discussion.

On one hand we have caught Jon Doe scum and on the other we have my desire to kill Matt. Decisions, decisions.

I can prove you wrong on us with one sentence that would be verified by at least one player. I'll save that for when its needed but I'm sure that player is already rolling his eyes and cursing under his breath.

You should prob go ahead and fakeclaim.

That's a Wayne Post. Why should I claim now? I can say what he would have said but I don't really feel like claiming ATM. I'm not going to claim solely because someone says I should.

[Titus]

Titus, why isn't your vote doing anything?

I unvoted the guy who I was voting because he claimed vig. No point in lynching him. Time will tell whether he is vig or not.

[Titus]

Mod: Can we get a prod on GuyinFreezer?

[Titus]

Titus, why isn't your vote doing anything?

I unvoted the guy who I was voting because he claimed vig. No point in lynching him. Time will tell whether he is vig or not.

And?

And what is the question supposed to mean here?

@Cain, I'll claim when someone who hasn't been tunnelling me for most of the day asks me to claim. I won't claim for your benefit.

I can put my vote on Cain but I'll wait. I'd rather use my vote to do investigation and reaction testing. Voting for someone who has been tunnelling me only encourages that behavior to the town's detriment.




-----------------

Post Edit: Toogeloo isn't a semi-scum read for me so I'll claim.

I'm Wayne's Favorite, the vanilla townie.

[Titus]

can you character claim, Titus?

I'm Morales.

[Titus]

I feel kinda uneasy about the quickness of this wagon mehmehmeh

You should because this wagon is as exactly as I predicted.

[Titus]

I feel kinda uneasy about the quickness of this wagon mehmehmeh

You should because this wagon is as exactly as I predicted.

Nothing you've done is townie since this has begun

You're not helping your case

I try to do something to help, I get FoSed with every question which requires thirty answers. I'm trying but it just moves far too quickly for me to even have time to form intelligent thoughts. I tried to do analysis on the kills and instead I get accused of making them which is exactly what I predicted. So yeah, I could have done more and I could actually have some room to operate too. Yet, I don't always get what I need and that's frustrating.

[Titus]

they seem tryhard newb-ish?

Difference in claim expectation because other head may have had brilliant plan to get shot in the night.

That's how I like to play VT. Draw attention as being too town for scum to ignore and get shot.

[Titus]

Why isn't anyone talking about how hollow No Brains' OGML push is now?

DGB's case revolves around the fact that OGML never considered the possibility that Titus was the vig.

In turn, DGB never considered the possibility that

OGML

was the vig.

On a scale of 1 to cognitive dissonance, how 10 is that?

I'd say an eight. There is one reason I can predict Brains saying but I'd rather not be accused of feeding anyone answers.

[Titus]

Brains is acting like an executioner.

@Desperado, I'll give Brains one more chance to answer before my dissonance answer jumps to 10.

[Titus]

@ActionDan, you'll vote the claimed vig based off the word of someone? Why?

@Desperado, I was expecting Brains to say she thought I was vig until I revoked. If she thought I somehow claimed that, assuming OMGL would have meant there was a claim already in place. (Obviously not claiming vig here)

[Titus]

@ActionDan, I was suspecting that. What if Brains is insane? Obviously speculating. If Brains is a cc though, I wouldn't imagine that she'd cc but rather just shoot him at night.

[Titus]

@Borkjerfkin, OMGL claimed vig. Brains is still tunnelling OMGL. ActionDan and I were trying to figure out why.

@All, I'm off to sleep. I have a lot of work for tomorrow. I plan to be back in the afternoon.

[Titus]

Holy clusterbleep.

[Titus]

VOTE: OMGL

Brain's flavor analysis is persuasive and the so called vig is deliberately shooting active players. Shooting n1should be reserved for lurkers or people who are known scum. Notice OMGL never said why Majiffy was scummy just merely he was the scummiest active player.

[Titus]

VOTE: OMGL

Brain's flavor analysis is persuasive and the so called vig is deliberately shooting active players. Shooting n1should be reserved for lurkers or people who are known scum. Notice OMGL never said why Majiffy was scummy just merely he was the scummiest active player.

omg

Care to expand?

[Titus]

Jesus fuck, if we can get a consensus I'll be happy.

VOTE: Titus

I express my extreme unhappiness at the sangres kill and unwilling to be leashed OMGL.

For the last fucking time, flavor is irrelevant.

Flavor wouldn't be totally irrelevant when the host recommended players be familiar with the TV show Walking Dead.

[Titus]

Ok, to those of you who think my analysis was a slip, it wasn't. It was my deductions pure and simple. I understand other people have their theories. I'm not running around calling them slips because they aren't. I was just calling the shots as I see them. I will always do that.

[Titus]

A tl;dr and a reason why Titus is the major wagon would be appreciated.

tl:dr - People decided that night kill spec wherein you don't immediately presume Vig when a non-scummy player was killed = scum play.
We had a bunch of killing roles claim, cross claim, and cross vote all while not actually being the same role.
People ignore some good wagons.
Instead they will run up Titus, because...y'know, he scum slipped...or...something...y'see, he was trying to figure out night kills and offered his thoughts about them, and now he has to die because he sounded a *little* too sure of himself.
The person who created the case did the same thing (and, considering their claimed role, it was even derpier, frankly)
Everyone has ignored that this isn't actually a scumtell.
And now we're here.

You should vote Elli or Sugar, both are actually looking like scum.
Unlike Titus, who looks like frustrated town.

Thor, someone pushing my wagon is likely scum. At this point, I'd think Sugar, AJ, or OMGL. Thoughts?

[Titus]

Pretty sure mastin and Elli are scum
Sugar and RC and OGML and Thor have PRs
In a game of this size, how many scum would there normally be?
Also someone please gimme the claims and counterclaims and shiz

OMGL is Vig. Brains is Herd Keeper. I'm VT. Matt's vig I believe.

Why did you out those you think are PRs?

[Titus]

For lulz? Umm, my reasoning is we need to distinguish the PRs from the VTs to hopefully save them by coordinating night actions and the like; for example, Jiffy was a redirector, and the usefulness of his role depends on the alignment of target and his or her role, if that makes sense

Titus, good to see you, do you have any preference over who we lynch today?

I've been trying to get there but I've been FoSed the living daylights out impeding investigation. I figured scum would be pushing me really hard, so I have three thoughts ATM, but I'm unsure which. Throw Amrun in for good measure too.

[Titus]

A tl;dr and a reason why Titus is the major wagon would be appreciated.

tl:dr - People decided that night kill spec wherein you don't immediately presume Vig when a non-scummy player was killed = scum play.
We had a bunch of killing roles claim, cross claim, and cross vote all while not actually being the same role.
People ignore some good wagons.
Instead they will run up Titus, because...y'know, he scum slipped...or...something...y'see, he was trying to figure out night kills and offered his thoughts about them, and now he has to die because he sounded a *little* too sure of himself.
The person who created the case did the same thing (and, considering their claimed role, it was even derpier, frankly)
Everyone has ignored that this isn't actually a scumtell.
And now we're here.

You should vote Elli or Sugar, both are actually looking like scum.
Unlike Titus, who looks like frustrated town.

Thor, someone pushing my wagon is likely scum. At this point, I'd think Sugar, AJ, or OMGL. Thoughts?

Add Amrun to this.

[Titus]

Derp. Sugar and Thor should not be claiming ATM. It's bad enough your fishing for hypothetical PR roles now you're wanting them to claim. Not to mention the blatant buddying. :S

[Titus]

For our replacements, "The Walking Dead Mafia! Abridged Version."

Day 1 starts, MattP claims Hated Townie with a Lynch threshold of 2. Thor votes, then Toog (me) votes to hammer. MattP says, "lol, I was just kidding," and reads from the fake claim ensue. Toog (me) asks who Glenn is in the game, shortly after Amrun says she is and asks why, to which Toog (me) replies no reason but to break ice, which frustrates Amrun. Toog claims Maggie. Day 1 hits 30 pages in like 12 hours, during which conversation is mostly centered on pushing StupendousKey lynch and a variety of people giving reads on other players. Some people don't show up, or have very minimal posts during this time, including ActionDan, PeregrineV, Red Coyote, Ellibereth, chesskid, GuyInFreezer, OhGodMyLife, and a few others. Ellibereth claims to want to hammer, a few more votes eventually happen, Elli hammers. SK flips Oscar, Vanilla Townie.

Day 2 starts, Trust Fund (VT), chesskid (Goon), and Majiffy (Town Redirector) all dead. Titus slot does some analysis on the terribad SK lynch, but votes GuyInFreezer (who wasn't on the lynch, due to our previous case) and also speculates on the kills, stating the Trust Fund kill may have been Mafia shot, set up to frame our slot and then push a hard lynch on Jon Doe (Titus). OGML states the perspective slip and votes Titus' slot. No Brains states the reverse perspective slip on OGML, stating OGML doesn't take into consideration Titus might be a Vig and have knowledge. People vote Titus slot, half the hydra gets bent out of shape and is subsequently ejected from the game. Thor comes in, suddenly people don't like Thor for a variety of reasons. An Elli push starts due to Elli's bad play overall, Elli laughs at it. OGML claims Vig who killed Majiffy (for posting too much and looking scummy day 1), and pushes Titus harder. Titus claims Morales, Vanilla Townie. No Brains laughs, asks more votes on OGML. MattP claims Vig, chaos ensues. No Brains then claims

Vig

Walker Manipulator. MattP says his claim was fake because he knew No Brains was Vig and he was trying to protect their claim. No Brains states the specifics of their role, which turns out to not be a Vig at all, but a role that influences the walker kills at night. No Brains reveals that their role is not a precise Vig, others try to correct No Brains and state how the mechanic works and other players can influence walkers as well.


You are now more or less caught up on the major events of the game. Feel free to continue reading though.

I modified a few things. When doing recaps, unbiased language should be used. I also added in my reasoning and some clarification on the Vig claim. Overall, very well done though.

It seems you have a hidden bias towards Brains as scum. Do you have her as a scum read?

[Titus]

my slot didnt even post shit...

Amrun why are you so reckless?

when you asked for a summary did you look back on what was summarised? if so what are your thoughts?

actually i didnt

i will read the day in depth when im really free

because nothing beats scumhunting like the actual posts

but yeah thanks for the summary toogaloo you get to be the first on my town list

While Toogaloo is likely town, putting him there for solely his lists is a mistake. The big list maker in my fisrt game of 20 plus off–site was totally scum.

[Titus]

You really need to stop scum via association on living players. You also constently misrep my theory. Scum was somewhere pushing me, so I investigated within that group and I still am. When Aj came back to life, I questioned him. I cannot question a lurker effectively. Those who were scumreading me and active,I questioned.

Aj, who do you townread at the moment?

[Titus]

Why? For example, in mainstream mafia we thought that McQueen/Johog/Thad were all scummy together and hey they all were so I see nothing wrong with speculating who might be buddies together.

Getting lucky doesn't mean it was right. Associations are better done with dead scum. Yet you don't seem keen on that analysis.

You should focus on all pieces of the puzzl rather than focusing on your hunch.

[Titus]

Getting lucky doesn't mean it was right. Associations are better done with dead scum. Yet you don't seem keen on that analysis.

Well guess what? We don't have any dead scum yet.

So chesskid3 wasn't scum?

VOTE: Sugar Cain

@Aj, Common sense says i is highly unlikely Sugar and I are scum together.

[Titus]

errr, we do but I don't think we can really get anything from Chess.

You never even looked at his ISO. You should have. It likely confirms Brains as town.

[Titus]

errr, we do but I don't think we can really get anything from Chess.

You never even looked at his ISO. You should have. It likely confirms Brains as town.

What? My thinking that nothing productive will come from Chess makes you think I didn't read his ISO. What the fuck is that?

Common sense says someon being tunneled and the tunneler are not scum together. Somehow you interpret that as a scum claim.

Also, you should have ISOed him when he flipped scum if you're as big on associations as you say. Yet you totally forgot that. Then you say looking for associations in known scum is worthless. The play makes no sense.

[Titus]

*Him in paragraph 2 is chesskid.

[Titus]

And yet you still didn't ISO chesskid, otherwise the logic behind that statement would be clear.

1) I know I am town.
2) However, AJ doesn't know either of our roles. So I am putting the facts to him as he should be able to deduce.

[Titus]

@Thor, I should have sheeped you sooner. A guy focused on associations (the so called association between me and AJ) doesn't forget to ISO dead scum. If he does forget then he'd do the ISO. Sugar Cain has been focused on lynching me for far too long to the near exclusion of others.

[Titus]

.....................

Nero: I don't feel we'll really get anything useful from Chess' ISO

Titus: That means you didn't ISO him!!!

I really don't understand how that works so I'll ask again, what useful interaction do you think that the town should get from Chess' ISO?

Chesskid only mentioned Dgb by name. He posted a lot with no content. He did a reactionary fos on Brains. That isn't something I would expect him to do if they were both indeed scum Day 1. Therefore,Brains is likely town.

[Titus]

I should have said FoSed by name. Misspeech. I don't care who was in Brains spot. I cate what the ISO showed.

I am fussing at you because you harp more on living associations than the dead ones. It's inconstient with your purported scumhunting. You only ISOed Chesskid after I told you what was I felt important.

Wow! I am sudenly town now after allegedly making a scum claim a few posts back.

You are repeatedly yelling at us to ignore ISOing chesskid. He didn't leave much but the endevor is far from pointless.

[Titus]

@Aj, Common sense says i is highly unlikely Sugar and I are scum together.

^
Titus bussing Sugar heard it here first

We've been at each other's throats since the start of the day. You're welcome to put forth that "theory" but it's pretty bunk on its face that scum decide to do a multibus on each other the entire day 2.

[Titus]

I am fussing at you because you harp more on living associations than the dead ones. It's inconstient with your purported scumhunting. You only ISOed Chesskid after I told you what was I felt important.

And again, I ask you what associations should I be getting from Chess?

I also ISO'd Chess as soon as he died and I have no clue how you think that I didn't.

Wow! I am sudenly town now after allegedly making a scum claim a few posts back.

Mara has been calling you town for awhile now dummy.

Did you or did you not ISO Chess prior to Titus asking you about it?
If so, why such a stink about him asking?
If not, why not?

I did.

I am making such a "big stink" over it 'cause I think it makes no sense. Chess mentions DGB, Eli and Dan. I could maybe buy one of Dan/eli as scum but iys not like his ISO gives us much to go on and her "well you should be able to find a Chess buddy is his ISO" when his ISO is super wifom me is stupid,SHE'S also not able to find scum in that ISO so why does she think I shoul? its also not this contradiction you two are trying to make it out to be.

You should have commented nothing there much sooner if you're really scumhunting through association.

Nice hydra dissonance claim on the scumslip to town in a few posts. When all else fails, blame the other head.

I said you should have looked. Everyone sees things different. Some espouse that scum ignore their partners. Some whiteknight. It depends on the scum. The process of ISOing dead scum is invaluable regardless. Associations would be found. In this case, it was Brains is innocent and more work needs to be read into on Eli/Dan.

[Titus]

Nice hydra dissonance claim on the scumslip to town in a few posts. When all else fails, blame the other head.

hahahaah.

#1 that's not a scumslip #2 that's correcting you.

And no. I've already looked at Chess' ISO. You were impling that I was scum 'cause I wasn't using his ISO to find scum when you yourself don't think scum can be found in his ISO.

As for Brains, we weren't scumreading him so your "point" that we should be town reading that slot is hollow fluff.

There's more than scum that can be found via association, Cain. Innocent players can also be found through ISOing. The analysis I did regarding Brains being town from Chesskid's posts is hardly hollow fluff. For someone who seems to read associations, you aren't being that good at it. For instance, a hypothetically shot Cop should be isoed to see if he abnormally defended anyone still alive. If so, the cop probably thought that player was inno due to a check. Association is not just about ZOMG! They were nice to each other. Scum.

If you were legitimately doing these associations you would not have a) forgetten Chesskid was dead OR forgotten he was scum. AND b) you would have posted that you couldn't find anything in chesskid's ISO. The fact you did these things strongly suggests you never ISOed Chesskid.

[Titus]

Hello scumz

We're not mislynching Sugar Cain today, you may have to bus. We will follow your lead.

-DGB

Really Brains, you don't think Sugar Cain is scum? *sigh* Why not?

[Titus]

Am I the only person who caught what this vote was about?

I saw no logic in it and dismissed it as flail.

Same.

[Titus]

Ok, I must be dense here. I don't see Sugar Cain bleeding town. I see a semi-tunneller who isn't playing according to his own professed playstyle. Someone show me these "town tells" he's dropping please.

[Titus]

Ok, I must be dense here. I don't see Sugar Cain bleeding town. I see a semi-tunneller who isn't playing according to his own professed playstyle. Someone show me these

"town tells

" he's dropping please.

There is your problem.

Yeah, I'm seeing scum tells from Sugar Cain. I don't see town tells from him. So I'm asking you to tell me what they are.

[Titus]

Forests, not trees.

Clear, think I not. Explain or explain not. There is no try.

[Titus]

Do you have a game that has more than D1 scum? D1 I find is one of the least telling days and Nero got day killed on D2.

[Titus]

Ok, I'll hold my reservations on meta judgment until then. Also, I'm going out of my way to really look at this meta since a lot of people disagree with me. Normally, my belief is meta has little value since the player is aware of it.

[Titus]

Can y'all give me something, other than meta, that suggests SC is town?

[Titus]

Titus, how about you make your own decision about whether or not rc is town?

You are seriously not reading the thread if you think I haven't made a decision about SC being town or not. I think he's scum I'm just giving the people who believe him to be town an opportunity to be fully heard.

[Titus]

I misread that as RC (and if you'll notice, that's what I actually said).

SC is strangercoug. Call them sugar or something. >.>

Why did you mean RC? I figured you made a typo and meant SC.

As for RC, I'd rather see more from him before making up my mind. Why the sudden interest in RC? and why ask your scum read?

[Titus]

Amrun, ActionDan: please bus Elli.

I can still get on this train if Eli doesn't contribute when he gets back. If he still thinks nothing interesting has happened, he deserves a lynch.

[Titus]

Nice hydra dissonance claim on the scumslip to town in a few posts. When all else fails, blame the other head.

hahahaah.

#1 that's not a scumslip #2 that's correcting you.

And no. I've already looked at Chess' ISO. You were impling that I was scum 'cause I wasn't using his ISO to find scum when you yourself don't think scum can be found in his ISO.

As for Brains, we weren't scumreading him so your "point" that we should be town reading that slot is hollow fluff.

There's more than scum that can be found via association, Cain. Innocent players can also be found through ISOing. The analysis I did regarding Brains being town from Chesskid's posts is hardly hollow fluff. For someone who seems to read associations, you aren't being that good at it. For instance, a hypothetically shot Cop should be isoed to see if he abnormally defended anyone still alive. If so, the cop probably thought that player was inno due to a check. Association is not just about ZOMG! They were nice to each other. Scum.

If you were legitimately doing these associations you would not have a) forgetten Chesskid was dead OR forgotten he was scum. AND b) you would have posted that you couldn't find anything in chesskid's ISO. The fact you did these things strongly suggests you never ISOed Chesskid.

But I am, as should you, be looking for scum. And Brain's doesn't look like a Chess buddy so why should I care about that? That's right, 'cause I'm town and only care about finding scum. Therefore your claim that I am "not hunting via association" is a big ball of bullshit b/c you stated that you don't think scum can be found bwo Chess' ISO.

Clearing town is just as important as confirming scum. If Eli flips scum, Dan would be a suspect because of Chess's ISO. Eli flips scum, Dan is the only other player mentioned in the ISO that wasn't FoSed. Ergo, suspicion Dan is scum. We wouldn't find that otherwise. Dan is also more likely town if Eli flips town.

You are acting like we should ignore an ISO of a dead scum. That should NEVER happen.

[Titus]

'cause Titus is still scum. Do you remember anything that Titus has said about Eli 'cause I don't.

I tend not to comment on players who don't post intelligent things beyond the fact they aren't posting intelligently. In fact, I have said that Eli was either horrible town or scum. Your convenient lack of memory is not making me think you are likely town.

[Titus]

. In fact, I have said that Eli was either horrible town or scum

Such a hardcore stance, no way you could possibly be scum with THAT.

Yeah, it's not a hardcore stance because there's nothing to go off of. The fact there is nothing to go off of is highly suspicious but I try not to label people until I am reasonably certain. I asked questions to try and clarify whether Eli was scum in my mind (was this his meta?). I never got 100% clear responses although Brains is starting to be clear now.

Why would Dan be town if Eli flipped scum? Also, I never said it was certain Dan was scum if Eli flipped town. It's just evidence. All the evidence forms the complete picture. I'd question Dan but notice how I said Dan wouldn't be certain scum if Eli flipped scum.

[Titus]

Your "evidence" is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. Scum asks two other players to hammer without reading. Conclusion? They're his scum buddies! Jesus fuck, it's so wrong I just want to curl up into fetal position and let someone else explain why it is so wrong.

And this is the discussion we should have had earlier, soon after the flip and evidence Eli could be horrible town with a setup by scum.

@Sugar Cain, if there's nothing else to use, I will use meta. I just don't like to.

[Titus]

Intent to hammer if claim is bad. I basically agree with RC's thoughts on this one, so that moves him significantly more towards being town for your information Amrun.

[Titus]

Am I the only person who caught what this vote was about?

I saw no logic in it and dismissed it as flail.

I didn't see it as flail, given who posted it.

Interesting to note, however: Neither of you had any part in the discussion. May I ask how you came across the discussion?

I read way more than I post in the mafia discussion forum. In that particular instance, the topic was of interest to me because about that time I was playing an ungodly long newbie game and someone replaced into it at the start of day 2. He asked for a summary and I did a sort of conversational mode Q&A rather than a wall. It turned out to be a good way for us both to develop reads. There may be something to Mara's summary tell, but it's more nuanced than summary = scummy. The fact that it was the summary with the flowery turns of phrase and narrative style that pinged for her in this game probably says something about how she thinks about the tell, herself.

Of course there is? there aren't any tells that are black and white, though I just missed Thor's summary. Him and toogers are definitely not scum together though their separate summaries each have things in them that kinda bother me.

Pedit: I really, really do not like this Elli lynch

Why not? He hasn't done anything particularly pro-town.

[Titus]

Why is Eli a poor lynch? Will someone please tell me that in non-Yoda esque talk?

[Titus]

Should I hammer and end the day?

[Titus]

I think elli as scum would have self hammered, can anyone back that up or destroy it with meta?

Be careful answering this. I was looking at the definition of trust tell in the mafia wiki and this seemed to be the example.


Brains, why is the hammer Sangres's? I'm perfectly willing to hammer now ATM.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ellibereth

Done. I'll take the risk here.

[Titus]

WE have got known scum. I'm not going to risky suspicious players like Amrun derailing this because we didn't have the guts to hammer. If this is Elli town, she won't be missed. RC can post his catchup post at the start of Day 3 and edit what needs to be edited at the start. If he has nothing, we lost nothing by hammering.

Just hammer Sangres.

[Titus]

Guys
I think RC is scum

Promises without fulfillment in a reasonable timeframe tend to increase a player's scumread. I'm leaning this way very heavily.

[Titus]

Guys
I think RC is scum

Promises without fulfillment in a reasonable timeframe tend to increase a player's scumread. I'm leaning this way very heavily.

So why were you all like "RC can just post his stuff later!!!" Why not let him get his post up today?

Because I think he's full of it and I'm not going to want scum to try and derail a wagon while waiting on a promise that might never happen. If RC is town, he can post it tomorrow.

[Titus]

Guys
I think RC is scum

Promises without fulfillment in a reasonable timeframe tend to increase a player's scumread. I'm leaning this way very heavily.

So why were you all like "RC can just post his stuff later!!!" Why not let him get his post up today?

Because I think he's full of it and I'm not going to want scum to try and derail a wagon while waiting on a promise that might never happen. If RC is town, he can post it tomorrow.

Lol, did you just read my post that said either tonight or tomorrow? I'm on page 85, friend...

That meant game tomorrow.


@Sangres, if you believe OMGL is the vig and he's going to shoot you, I don't see why you avoid claiming.

@Tip, I'm utterly confused as to what you want clearing up. I don't have any long term plans at this point. It's day 2.

[Titus]

@Sangres, do you believe OMGL is vig?

[Titus]

Except for this, I have a strong town read on sangres. I don't understand this but I know I don't have a whole picture.

I'm going to suppose you are town, what do you recommend we do here? Last will?

[Titus]

Scum are loving his choice in target.

I am unmoved by your constant caught-scum moaning. You are as transparent as the void of space.

I can't see why scum wouldn't claim here. It makes no sense. Scum could wind up drawing a cc with their fake claim. Or if no one ccs then the mafia gets information. I don't really understand why refusal to claim makes him scum. I can't see a town refusing to claim though either. The play makes no sense at all.

[Titus]

@Sangres, what do you think of Eli and Action Dan? Both town, both scum, one of each?

[Titus]

Hmm how about your head on Eli? Sugar, Matt, Thor, Amrun and pitoli? Forget Nacho for a bit.

[Titus]

Interesting. Why does Amrun look town and pitoli look scum to your head?

[Titus]

Titus, can I get a link to your last scum game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30255


I am the one that doesn't do meta unless it is the only available data.

[Titus]

Let's just go back to lynching Elli. He's still scum.

This.

[Titus]

I am rather surprised RC pushed me as scummier than Eli for my interactions with my other head earlier on. He likes my spunk and willingness to defend myself, but I'm scummy but might not be scummy based on the alleged slip OMGL caught. His whole read is basically a fence sit on me entirely. Yet, I'm scummier than Eli. His read makes no sense. I'm actually agreeing with SC for once.

Having both SC and I as scum also makes little sense. The pair of us have been going back and forth constantly.

There is an element of most mentioned lynch targets as the scums.

[Titus]

@Thor, If a player's scum reads do not make sense as a team, there's either bussing or one of the scum detections is wrong. It is important to note that. Since I know I am town, I know bussing isn't involved and I discount the rest of the scum reads accordingly.

[Titus]

Agreed with that being normal. However, some acknowledgement of the likelihood of only one of the two being scum should be made.

[Titus]

@SC, you've done a 180 on me? :wow: Why?

@MS, what scums do you see?

@All, I would rather lynch Eli over MS. MS is at least making a pretense of trying which may give us associative tells.

[Titus]

You know what really gives associative tells? Results, faked or otherwise.

So, you wait for MS existance gives us these tells. We have Eli, who won't give us those. Lynch the guy who won't then lynch MS. MS can give us more clues in Day 3.

[Titus]

@Amrun, contributing players give associative tells. People who avoid contributing don't. Keep MS alive and lynch Eli. MS will give tells Eli won't.

@Brains, now get back on the Eli train please.

[Titus]

You would be L-1 not the hammer btw according to the VC.

Gotcha on the waiting though.

[Titus]

mollie why didn't you know where your vote was?

Suppose mollie answers this completely pointless question. Tell me how you will process the information and how the possible answers will reflect on your read of our slot.

YOUR

useless question has blown up my town read of you.

@Brains, there is an answer to this. I went with that in my head. I'll let him give it.

[Titus]

@Brains, I agree with a strong scum team. Yet we have players that can try to kill the mafia. An active flip does us wonders and turns the game around.

[Titus]

No it wasn't. The hammer was already supposed to be done. TiP just finished it off.

Any reason I'm scum sangres? I am really not seeing that at all.

[Titus]

How did they "set off alarms"? I'm asking for specifics here. I've posted enough where that is reasonable of at least your head to ask for that.

[Titus]

I would like to hear what Brains did. However, I find it off that a town herder dies and Brains claims Town herder. It's possible but my suspicion level on Brains has gone up.

Also, I think a vote history analysis is in order. Players who pushed trains on any of the above players should be deemed suspicious in some regard.

The lack of scum kill and vig kill(s) suggest that either our vigs are lying or that our doctors healed the vig targets. I'm actually rather surprised to be alive at this point given OMGL's FoS of me yesterday. I doubt many would have healed me due to claiming VT and the information my flip would have gathered.

VOTE: OMGL

[Titus]

I'm actually rather surprised to be alive at this point given OMGL's FoS of me yesterday. I doubt many would have healed me due to claiming VT and the information my flip would have gathered.

This doesn't hold water.
There were two non-zombie kills N1. OGML claimed one of them - you are suggesting he straight up lied and someone else did it? Who might that be? Why didn't they CC OGML?

If OGML really did try to kill you I want to know and it points to likely Titus-scum.

p-edit: There's nothing that indicates that all normal killing actions were suspended last night

No... my comments had nothing to do with night 1.

My comment is a vig shoots people he suspects but cannot get lynched.

OGML (a vig) suspected me and couldn't get me lynched. Therefore, he'd likely shoot me.

I'm still alive. So that means doc healed me or vig didn't shoot me.

Doc wouldn't likely heal me due to the information I'd give and my claim of VT. Therefore, vig didn't shoot me.

OMGL not shooting me makes me suspicious he is not the vig because the vig would shoot me if he had suspicion.

[Titus]

OMGL not shooting me makes me suspicious he is not the vig because the vig would shoot me if he had suspicion.

yeah great. Who is the vig then and why did they not CC/shoot OGML? Also this ignores the obvious possibility that OGML was interfered with either on the sending or receiving end of that kill.

Those things are possible. OMGL is suspicious though IMO. Notice I didn't say scum.

[Titus]

Supposing Brains is innocent, I would want to know who they lead scum to. I'm sure Brains had other scum suspects. I'm surprised about no two scum deaths with two town herders.

[Titus]

@Mod, Can you give us a link or define a "Town Baiter"?

I think by confirming the obvious with Baiter, that allows for several things. I'd rather let Brains speak for themselves though.

There is the possibility of having a scum herder as well.

[Titus]

Did a rudimentary analysis looking to see if vote patterns suggest any hidden scum.

[LYNCHED] StupendousKey: Mastin2, Mattp,

Amrun

, Sangres,

Majiffy

,

Trust Fund, Toogeloo

, OhGodMyLife, Sugar Cain,

Chesskid3

,

RedCoyote

,

Ellibereth

[LYNCHED] Ellibereth: Thor665, Desperado,

Toogeloo

, borkjerfkin, PeregrineV,

RedCoyote

,

Aj The Epic

, Titus, No Brains Here, TheIrishPope[formerly GIF]

Looking at solely who voted in the two lynches. Desperado, Thor, bork, PeregrineV and NBH get significant points for only being on the scum lynch. Coyote is on both trains, so that's a null.

Mastin, Mattp, Sangres, OMGL, and Sugar Cain were only on the mislynch.

Mastin - Very few posts, says Elli is likely to be a derp lynch. Major FoS here.

Mattp - After doing a search through Mattp's ISO, I cannot find one mention of Elli, beyond a quote in Day 1. Plus, he was a major player in the Stupendous lynch. Post 2454 is the only reaction he appears to have to Eli's train at all. Major FoS here.

OGML - Voted Elli repeatedly but somehow didn't wind up on the end train. Given how the end train turned out, not holding this against him.

Sugar Cain - Suspected Eli early but pushed trains consistently on other players. Confusing. I'd want to see more given many of SC's FoSes were town. I'd give SC a null-leaning scum on vote history alone.

[Titus]

Look, if a vig claimer acts suspiciously, I'll call them on it. Worst case scenario, I get shot. I'd rather relay the facts as I see them.

[Titus]

Who did you try to shoot last night MattP?

[Titus]

Brains what the hell? I'm not even voting you and I've done significant analysis not even centering on you and you're thinking I'm out to lynch you. No. I was just acknowledging the obvious. Why the hell do you think I didn't vote you? I voted OMGL because I found his claim more ludicirous.

[Titus]

I'm going back to metal sonic

@Desp: Look at the point where he says elli is a scum read: 2929 That was like RIGHT before elli was lynched. Why is MS more likely scum for NOT voting there than bussing there when the lynch was all but an inevitability?

Supposing without agreeing that your theory is right, you'd want to look at people who got on after the lynch was inevitable. Where do you draw that line?

Arguing against your theory in the alternative, when could the scum have gotten on without looking suspicious? Wouldn't it be better to hope the train fails?

[Titus]

1) Do you think scum bussed earlier or later or do you have no clue?

2) Yeah scum can be pressured, I'm not sure how making this MS specific is relevant.

3) I'd still say that one of the scums likely avoided the Elli wagon and was on the Stupendous Wagon.

[Titus]

So supposing the scum avoided the Elli wagon and voted Stupendous, which of the four do you like?

[Titus]

@RC, Yes if my memory serves right SC was the biggest FoSer of Togeloo.

@Brains, obvious is not as obvious as it seems. There was a town herder was well as a possible scum herder. You could have picked the wrong choice or not submitted a choice at all for the night kill given the odds of a walker hitting scum versus town. Bussing an inactive member of the team who refuses to contribute is a great way to earn town points, especially if it was preplanned by the scums. While I find this scenario unlikely, I do not discount it entirely.

[Titus]

@sangres, what is being Amnished? You mention it in regards to 2571 on your wall. I'd like to know that to understand what you wrote.

[Titus]

...

Is that really reads on everyone, including dead people, as well as a vote on a dead person?

This sounds lifted from the mafia chat but back night 1, when I was still in the hydra. How could anyone who has read the game at all think Jon is still in the game?

VOTE: Metal Sonic

[Titus]

...

Is that really reads on everyone, including dead people, as well as a vote on a dead person?

This sounds lifted from the mafia chat but back night 1, when I was still in the hydra. How could anyone who has read the game at all think Jon is still in the game?

What is this? Did you not see MS' post?

I did and I was agreeing with you. MS's so called reads are utter crap.

[Titus]

@Mod: If kills were submitted, did they count in last nights Order of Operations? Order of Operations is who does what and when.

If kills were counted, we can infer that there is most likely a roleblocker in the game. I can't see doctors healing Mastin either. I doubt OMGL would lie about who he shot (although it is possible) plus there's the lack of a mafia kill that suggests a roleblocker.

[Titus]

@Sugar, That read on MS scum is possible. I won't deny that. Still, it just doesn't sit right with me.

[Titus]

@Mod: If kills were submitted, did they count in last nights Order of Operations? Order of Operations is who does what and when.

Night went like a normal, regular night, only difference is that people couldn't

Hide

thats all.

We had three walker kills last night

unless the mod implied something inaccurately

. So, i higly doubt both MattP and OMGL are vigs. OMGL hit mastin, which could mean bulletproof. MattP hasn't announced his target. Maybe one of the two got healed/duplicated the night kill but something isn't right for three killers to all miss.

[Titus]

MattP, you cannot claim the ability to self-confirm and then bitch when we call you on it. You've claimed Hated Townie, Vig, Self-Confirmable? I don't think it's wrong to put your feet to the fire and force you to claim, specially with your voting history.

[Titus]

OMGL's play makes sense. I can't see anyone healing Mastin so that implies that Mastin2 likely has a vest of some sort. Voting him, worst case scenario, lose a bp. Best case lynch vested/immune scum.

[Titus]

MattP, you cannot claim the ability to self-confirm and then bitch when we call you on it. You've claimed Hated Townie, Vig, Self-Confirmable? I don't think it's wrong to put your feet to the fire and force you to claim, specially with your voting history.

And yet, my claim will be when I self confirm, which can't happen yet. You want me to claim how I will eventually be able to self confirm myself?

If you can, or cannot, please confirm/deny being a vig. Those quad posts don't look good to me.

[Titus]

Hey, Titus, we haven't talked a whole lot. Who do you think today's lynch is?

Too early to tell. We have almost two weeks. I could go for either of the major wagons though. What are you opinions on them?

[Titus]

Titus, why you been so quiet lately?

I had work most of the day, so I had to be very selective as to which games I posted in. I had to drive over 200 miles today.

[Titus]

I care that you help the town if you are town. I think your play has been pretty anti-town, but I am not interested in lynching you nor pursuing you as an active scumread.

Sugar says I am fencesitting on you, but I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

I don't really think you're town

, but I know enough about myself and the experience I have playing this game that sometimes playstyles and lies and behavior just rubs me the wrong way (as I think happens with all human beings as they interact with one another inside and outside of Mafia) and unfairly pit me against another player.

Which is just a long way of saying that

you're probably town even if I don't like it

.

Either this is town cognitive dissonance or a scum slip, on first impression.

[Titus]

Your position doesn't seem nuanced but rather has a lot of words. It can be summed up as "I think you're scum but I'm frequently wrong so you're town". Talk about a post where you win either way.

[Titus]

Metal, you are at L-1. You should claim.

[Titus]

Titus: Similar to bork, I had Titus as basically null, writing him off as being town because...
...Oh, heck if I know. I can't remember. (That, itself, is generally a very bad sign.) His play on D3, though, IMMEDIATELY pinged my radar. It doesn't look pro-town to me at all.

^ this is Mastin's scumbuddy read

No. That's Mastin's faked up bullshit.

None of his reads actually have reasons.

[Titus]

Sugar Cain, mastin's reads should tell all you need to know about it. They are crap.

[Titus]

I made 3175 before OMGL announced who he killed. Given his statements about me being scum occurred a whole lot, I figured I was his shot target.

I did put pressure on MattP and OMGL for the reasons described. I expected a lot more deaths. Three shooters were unaccounted for and that irked me. It still does.

SugarCain, if Mastin didn't die, that points to one of three scenarios 1) Mastin has a vest 2) Mastin is scum and someone roleblocked OMGL 3) OMGL didn't shoot Mastin. If 1 isn't true, then most likely either Mastin or OMGL is lying. There is a chance of a town roleblocker hitting OMGL though.

[Titus]

Ok, I thought via context. I didn't look to see if OMGL actually claimed who he shot. I thought you grabbed a post from when I thought I was shot. All around, that was a bad response from me and I'm sorry.


It all boils down to the four possible scenarios I posted. The roleblocker, if one hit OMGL, is most likely scum given the fact no one town would likely want to save OMGL. There is a chance a hypothetical roleblocker was town.

[Titus]

I was saying my previous answer was bad. Yeah, my answer sucked. It as incoherent. Context should have told you my answer was fucked up. It was.

[Titus]

Can you quote the post where RC was

mod confirmed

town?

Bolded for emphasis.

[Titus]

Ok, we need to get on one train or the other. I am fine on either train (Metal Sonic or Mastin). Given we have about 2 days, we should make a decision fast.

[Titus]

In case you're too dense to understand the implication of that post.
-OGML says he shot me.
-His shot on me failed.
-I don't have a way to stop a kill on me (aside from the standard hide), thus, it failed because of something else. Like, say, a roleblocker.
-Titus claims he thought OGML had shot him.
-Titus, therefore, as scum, would have thought OGML would shoot him during the night.
-Titus, therefore, as scum, would have had the most incentive out of any player to block OGML.
-Ergo, Titus is scum, who roleblocked OGML.

No. Nice try. I thought I was shot based on OMGL's actions towards me. My first thought was there are far too few deaths, not roleblockers. Your wall is a huge misrep. I first thought one of the vigilantes may be lying. Then roleblock was suggested. I suggested either town or scum roleblocker could have roleblocked OMGL. This is an attempt to derail the train off of yourself or Metal Sonic given the deadline.

Self-interest says at least one of you should vote the other. You aren't. You are trying to cause a no lynch situation.

[Titus]

Mastin why did it take you til 2 days before the deadline to make something of Titus' posts from the beginning of the day?

It's a derail attempt since he doesn't want to bus his buddy. Both MS and Mastin are scum.

[Titus]

You scums are so cute trying to back each other up and keep RC lynchable.

the idiot act is so cute OGML.

This should go in the textbook as a perfect example of

ad hominem

.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

That is an ad hominem attack and thus has little to no value.

[Titus]

Guys, we need to move the wagons together. Either Metal Sonic or Mastin. The other wagons will not get the votes in two days.

By the way, if you want to prove vig status, I am perfectly fine with being shot. It's a waste because I'm town but I'd rather get the vig discussion out of the way.

[Titus]

By the way, if you want to prove vig status, I am perfectly fine with being shot. It's a waste because I'm town but I'd rather get the vig discussion out of the way.

Why do you want to be shot over your scumreads?

+

There's maybe a roleblocker and thus a vig sho wouldn't pose a threat to you 'cause ya'll could just block it.

I don't want to be shot over my scum reads. I just know scum wouldn't protect me with a block because I'm town. So claiming to shoot me frees the vig. If the vig gets blocked again, I'll be surprised.

[Titus]

Mafia drinking game. Take a drink everytime someone says lynch Titus without evidence. Take two drinks if the player flips scum. You'll be smashed in ten minutes.

[Titus]

I don't want to dig them up again because I'm lazy dense and dumb buuut 24 posts and you believe you haven't missed a single question?

This is a poor argument. A playercan ask what they've missed but it is reasonable to believe that none have been missed. Your argument seems to assume all miss questions but everyone is scummy for missing them.

[Titus]

Vote: PeregrineV

.

Reasonably certain this has some momentum behind it. But I expect Titus to be dead before night four.

Read, this is a wagon other that MS or me so I can get behind it.

[Titus]

Can you explain your scoring system NBH, I'm not understanding.

Also, I'm not buying Matt's story here.

TiP, what made it clear MS was not being lynched?

[Titus]

I'm down for Mastin or Metal Sonic. The more they post, the more they seem to be a team.

Also, I wanted more explanation of how the scores were reached for the scumputer. I think someone missed that.

[Titus]

Read, all the names Mastin mentioned are town (but for himself) and he's scum trying to control the lynch. Why couldn't we lynch MS or Mastin? Right because scum derailed the trains. If one was scum, scum would have forced the train to the other. If both were town, scum would have forced a train to either. If both were scum, we get an epic stall.

I rest my case.

[Titus]

I just realized my vote wasn't on Mastin.

VOTE: Mastin2

Sangres, I understand your argument. SC is town due to behaviors. Impulsivity is not a total town though. I will reread SC during the night phase as I want MS or Mastin dead today as I am certain they are scum.

[Titus]

Responding to Sangres's Popcorn Name Claim

can you character claim, Titus?

I'm Morales.

Metal Sonic to Flavor Claim Next

[Titus]

I put forth the end of day 3 suggests both Mastin and Metal Sonic are scum.

[Titus]

Damn TiP. The minimal scuminess makes sense to make sure you don't get shot.

VOTE: Mastin

My vote may have already been there but I want to make real sure Mastin is lynched.

@Mod: Dramatic activity reduction scheduled (close to V/LA) for at least Monday of next week. It could be the whole week or the week after. Major work project.

[Titus]

Wow. That post is demotivational. Major scum points.

[Titus]

Omgl, why in god's name would you think I am scum with Mastin?

I am beginning to think omgl is not the vig but scum killer.

[Titus]

I am beginning to think omgl is not the vig but scum killer.

Let the scum take care of it.

Don't think you understood. I was postulating omgl was a scum aligned killer.

[Titus]

People hate Titus is all I can divine.

This happens a lot.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

Obvious scum buddy there.

[Titus]

OMGL, why don't you fucking shoot me or move on already? This repeated voting of me and again no extra death makes you really fucking suspect.

[Titus]

Or we have a scum claiming vig who speculates that the mafia has a roleblocker to cover his ass.

[Titus]

Or we have a scum claiming vig who speculates that the mafia has a roleblocker to cover his ass.

So you say but once again if that is the case

where the fuck did the Majiffy kill come from?

What are you talking about? I noticed mastin's scum flip. That wasn't your doing though. TIP got the scum report and he was lynched, not shot by you.

As I claimed at the start of day three might night two shot was directed at Mastin. I was also consistently and vocally suspicious of Mastin from day two onwards.

The Majiffy kill could come from the REAL vig. After all, the mafia indeed have a rolecop who could act. Elliberth acts on day 1, finds the real vig. Then the real vig is blocked and somehow prevented from posting that (blackmailer maybe).

The other alternative is that the real vig has chosen not to CC you.

Looking through your ISO, it makes NO sense that you shot Majiffy. You don't even mention him. You shooting Majiffy makes NO sense whatsoever.

I can't quite prove everything exactly and Metal Sonic is obvscum. Also, Mastin was also pushing me. This gives you no alarm bells? Of course not because you're busy pushing this as well.

[Titus]

Yeah, you call it conspiracy theory because you don't know how to respond. Frankly, it makes no sense for scum to roleblock a vig they KNOW will shoot a town. So yeah, I'm not buying your bullshit at all.

[Titus]

Mastin and Metal Sonic were pushing me in tandem since Day 3. Nice bullshit though.

[Titus]

Or we have a scum claiming vig who speculates that the mafia has a roleblocker to cover his ass.

So you say but once again if that is the case

where the fuck did the Majiffy kill come from?

What are you talking about? I noticed mastin's scum flip. That wasn't your doing though. TIP got the scum report and he was lynched, not shot by you.

As I claimed at the start of day three might night two shot was directed at Mastin. I was also consistently and vocally suspicious of Mastin from day two onwards.

The Majiffy kill could come from the REAL vig. After all, the mafia indeed have a rolecop who could act. Elliberth acts on day 1, finds the real vig. Then the real vig is blocked and somehow prevented from posting that

(blackmailer maybe)

.

The other alternative is that the real vig has chosen not to CC you.

Looking through your ISO, it makes NO sense that you shot Majiffy. You don't even mention him. You shooting Majiffy makes NO sense whatsoever.

I can't quite prove everything exactly and Metal Sonic is obvscum. Also, Mastin was also pushing me. This gives you no alarm bells? Of course not because you're busy pushing this as well.

There is no such role in the mafiascum wiki.

No such role as zombie herder either, but that role at least supports the flavor.

Would you like to borrow my Ockham's razor?

I am using Occam's Razor.

Premise: I am town.
Premise: Scum like mislynches/mishots.
Conclusion: Scum would not roleblock a claimed vig who is going to shoot a town.

Premise: OMGL claims roleblocked Vig.
Conclusion: OMGL's claim causes scum to violate Occam's Razor.

I'm not familiar with the Walking Dead Flavor, but I'd imagine a blackmailer isn't far off. With zombies running around someone who blackmails someone else isn't ridiculous.

I'd imagine that TiP is a MUCH better target for a roleblock given he's nearly confirmed cop. (That is unless TiP is scum with Mastin but more valuable scum... which that violates Occam's Razor).

[Titus]

I am not "trying to set up a lynch". I'm saying TiP is town due to Occam's Razor and that I don't buy OMGL vig claim. I prefer the Latin.

NBH, in case the scums are using game theory, let's let TiP check OMGL. Get Metal Sonic the Obvscum.

[Titus]

Ank, what makes you think I am scum? Confirmed scum was pushing my lynch yesterday and now you are. It gravely confuses me. The fact that you ask for a VCA indicates that you might not have observed that.

[Titus]

I'm not sure what "pinged" you pretty hard, but Mastin is known scum and he was pushing the hell out of me. I tend to ping people the wrong way quite frequently though. I would appreciate elaboration as to what "pinged" you.

[Titus]

Wow. Apparently the scums grew a second roleblocker or OMGL has been lying. I cannot see why the town would roleblock TiP. There is the possibility of a town aligned bus driver but I doubt it. A scum aligned bus driver would have to know who the town aligned roleblocker was hitting and bus them with TiP. Kinda far fetched.

Either TiP or OMGL is scum or the scum have two roleblockers.

Why do you see Desperado as the only possible lynch? Did you get a guilty on Desperado I missed TiP?

[Titus]

VOTE: OMGL

[Titus]

Desperado, he's going to claim "My shots don't go through" as "I never sent one because I assumed I'd be blocked". He's trying to walk back the implication that he shot me to rather he shot no one in 1472. If he was town, he SHOULD be raging that there's an idiot roleblocker blocking him.

[Titus]

How do you know that we didn't get two roleblocking roles Des?

[Titus]

That's just outguessing the mod, and me not dying implies jailkeeper...

What about SC protecting you?

[Titus]

Omgl, were you pulling a gambit? If so, what did you hope to get from it?

VOTE: unvote

My vote will be on MS or OMGL, I am just trying to figure out which.

[Titus]

Desp, how often is a one shot vig traitor?

[Titus]

She appears and I was asleep. West coast US.

[Titus]

Ugh. Why do you keep giving answers I don't expect?

Analyze your gambit extensively. Tell me what you see.

Sangres, my other site frequently has blackmailers mch more so than 1 shot traitor vigs. I expect that first for that reason.

[Titus]

PereV also said that the main case against me stretches back to day 2 when I was looking at the deaths to try and see what scums were in the game and lay the foundations.

VOTE: OMGL

I am rather partial to Desperado's one shot traitor vig theory. OMGL even failed to reach the damn near obvious conclusion at this point. Mastin, flips scum. Has been pushing for my lynch. OMGL, lies about trying to shoot me and being roleblocked... setting me up to be in a lynch position. Metal Sonic rather than voting Mastin (self-preserving town) pushes for a lynch on me. All of these require Necro arguments like Pere said. Yet, Pere still votes for me.

Look at OMGL's ISO. Nada mentions of Majiffy being scummy. Plenty of mentions of me being scummy. Yet, he claims to shoot freaking Majiffy. When he gets called on why I haven't died, he retracts roleblock, calls it an indavertent gambit and yet cannot come to the conclusion that scum have been trying to get be lynched for DAYS now.

[Titus]

One post day one? Alarm bells. That post helps lynch a town. Alarm bells. No reason given. Alarm bells. Feels confident enough to shoot someone without asking questions. Alarm bells. Cannot say scum are pushing someone he thinks is conftown. Alarm too loud. We are all deaf. Bye bye.

Scum. Scum. Scum.

[Titus]

You act like that is a defense to a vig who presumably has limited shots burning one day 1 without asking questions. Yeah a one post, votw town and leave post sucks shit. One post naked vote is beyond crappy.

[Titus]

No but it is scummy here. Majiffy was pretty fucking town. OMGL lied about trying to shoot me. Lying plus crappy is almost always scummy. Why do you think his play is crappy instead of scummy?

[Titus]

I think Thor is town and I'm shooting Titus anyway if I get the chance

You closed yesterday with a promise to try to kill me. Then you opened today with a "roleblocked" shooting Titus, so we should lynch her. You claim to have hid the other two nights which is retcon. This suggests a deliberate gambit. Yet when I call you on it, you claim this gambit is accidental. You then start agreeing with the very statements you said I should have been lynched for.

Let's lynch OMGL. He has lied by implication. I am out to dinner.

[Titus]

Who wants to volunteer to hang for it when I flip town? Desp? Anybody? Bueller?

This question is a blatant ATE. On a totally irrelevant note, my husband would ask rhetorical questions like that.


Desp, what does WK stand for in your latest posts?

[Titus]

This should be obvious that OMGL is scum. I am really not understanding why anyone believes him at this point.

MS, what is the quote under the picture in your role PM?

[Titus]

I think there are at least 2 and more likely 3 scum left alive. Do you think MS could be scum with Mastin after our failure of a no lynch with their competing wagons on day three?

You mean like I suggested previously and you ignored wanting to shoot me instead.

[Titus]

Soooo can we lynch Desp yet

No. Can we lynch OMGL yet for lying?

[Titus]

I think there are at least 2 and more likely 3 scum left alive. Do you think MS could be scum with Mastin after our failure of a no lynch with their competing wagons on day three?

You mean like I suggested previously and you ignored wanting to shoot me instead.

Oh my god throw yourself a fucking pity party and get over it.

This is not a pity party. It's highlighting how you want to kill me to sheep me solely because you got busted by TiP and then you retconned all your prior actions. Given the end of n4, I hardly believe you "failed" to submit a kill on me. You didn't get the chance because you are lying about being a multishot vig.

If you somehow live through tomorrow, shoot me. I don't hide being a VT until the end game. Docs don't bother healing me.

[Titus]

TiP, set aside your reads for a moment. You know you were roleblocked. Someone else implied roleblocked by scum in order to push a lynch. That same lynch was pushed by known scum. When called on this, they changed their entire story.

Would you believe the slot was town? If so, WHY?

[Titus]

Pere, why do you want to leave both OMGL (probable traitorous vig) and MS (practically conf scum with Mastin)?

Even if you foolishly disagree with lynching OMGL, then you should agree with me on MS. That should be the lynch pool. No if ands or butts about it.

[Titus]

VOTE: MattP

:dancing banana:

You expect a sheep here when you cannot even remember who the hell is in the game. While I'm not ruling out MattP's replacement as scum (I've had my issues with him), I think we'd be damn foolish to lynch him over the liar and the confscum.

My suspicion of MS has never been about his play style. I was the first to bring up that MS and Mastin were likely scum together because of that no lynch day. Scum couldn't push either lynch train because they BOTH would result in a scum lynch. Both MS and Mastin pushed me. Both had no reasons for doing so. None of that is "playstyle". That is all behaviors that MS has taken.

[Titus]

NBH, now you're just going to ignore me? Why?

Has Matt provably lied? Been on the wrong trains? Give me something more than your opinion. I laid out my case briefly against MS (which you ignored) do the same for Matt/anka.

[Titus]

3. I don't see why you are concluding MS is "town" flailing rather than scum flailing. He's tunnelled on all the wrong lynches but when forced to vote for OMGL (the traitor). He's said I was scum with "minimal contributions" but his only unique contribution was the readwall. Anything else he says is "Titus is scum" over and over and over. There's NOTHING that appears townish in MS's postings.






-----------------

As for MattP, the first claim seemed to be a gambit (Town Hated 2 votes to lynch). It's poorly executed but that doesn't mean it couldn't be town. He also never claimed vig but that he could be if he tried really hard. The fact that you cannot keep up with your own scum suspect is more telling. He seems to gambit quite frequently. While it's not conftown to go through that many roles, he did so without pressure for the most part. His posts suggest he had a plan. I'm leaning town on the slot currently.

[Titus]

Scavenger is a false claim that is relatively easy to make up and hard to disprove. I wouldn't be so quick to suppose MattP/Ank is truthful, but I wouldn't write it off as false either.

[Titus]

Sangres, if MS is your top scum read and tried to lynch me with confirmed scum, shouldn't that tell that I am not scum?

I will do a vote count tonight if none has been done. My vote will be on OMGL or MS.

[Titus]

I am amazed at the people not wanting to lynch the proven liar here.
I am also amazed I can't even get a nibble on the Pere alternate wagon.
Instead we have the MS 'he's a derp' wagon, the Desperado 'people voting him are derp' wagon, and the Ank 'Meh, whatever, let's lynch this guy' wagon as competition.

Sangres should get some grapefruits.
The Desp wagon should die.
More votes on the SK or on Pere please.

I'm surprised you don't want MS as the alternative wagon. Pere is my third if I had to pick but I cannot see why people aren't wanting to lynch OMGL either. Can you explain why Pere over MS?

[Titus]

MS is linked to Mastin a hell of a lot more than Desp was. MS wouldn't even consider lynching Mastin when they were both the trains on day 3. I am fine with an MS lynch due to the associatives there but the amount of retconning... I never really said it but implied it, is just bad.

There is a benefit to letting OMGL live. We would have to control his night kill though. Either the scums can block him or the target dies. If the scums block OMGL then they most likely cannot block TiP.

[Titus]

Ok, those last couple of pages were rather informative.

I have Ank's slot as pretty town. Pere's as leaning town.

Pere's bold is very telling. Mastin, supposing he follows his own scum guide, wouldn't have bussed Elliberth and he did not. The question is was Mastin the scum leader? If so, then we can look at the Mastin and Metal Sonic trains on day 3. We are not likely to find scum on either wagon.


[L-3] Metal Sonic: Desperado, RedCoyote, Titus, borkjerfkin, Mattp
[L-3] PeregrineV: Sangres, TheIrishPope, Sugar Cain, Mastin2, PeregrineV
[L-5] Mastin2: ActionDan, OhGodMyLife, Thor665,

Sangres later jumped to the Mastin train if memory serves me accurately. We know Mastin was scum. Metal Sonic is on neither of the two trains. OMGL was on the Mastin train so that suggests OMGL is a third faction or traitor if scum.


VOTE: MetalSonic


OMGL, if MS dies, would you be fine with shooting Sangres?

[Titus]

Sangres later jumped to the Mastin train if memory serves me accurately

I never jumped on a mastin train. I called mastin scum early, I tried to work with him several times, etc. etc. What do you think of our interactions with mastin as a whole as opposed to where our vote ended up? Same question with regards to our interaction with Ellibereth.

You spend a hell of a lot of time defending mastin. You said you were willing to vote him early on at the beginning of the game despite arguing he was town. Odd for a town player to do that.

Unvote, Vote: Sangres

What I'm working on is a better lynch than yours.

This post suggests you are aligned with OMGL.

We should lynch MS and force OMGL to shoot Sangres. Then we lynch OMGL. GG no re.