The Walking Dead Mafia! ( Game Over )

[Thor665]

This thread just became less fun.

Also, I PMed the mod this as well, but just to toss it up publicly;

V/LA Aug 15 - Sep 3

I might be able to get on periodically...but since this game is likely to be pretty fast (ye gawds, I'm already 2 pages back just today) I will probably be *really* lazy about catching up in this one.
You have been warned.

That said, I'll give you a new RVS when I do return if the zombies don't get me

[Thor665]

and a town herder that isn't NBH flipped.

I be thinking one anti-town in between the two.

I don't grok, her roleclaim included commentary that she wasn't the only one with control.
People even had to keep pointing that out to the derp heads - so, y'know, multiple zombie affecting roles makes a lot of sense. Even duplicates - because, seriously,how many possible zombie interactions are there for a random mechanic?

I'm willing to leave Thor alone for the time being, though

Especially since you don't even have a case on me.

I have one on you though, you got awfully scared of that bus I forced you into.

Vote: Sugar Cain

Choo-choo!

What does a town baiter do?

I would presume draws zombies towards themselves and/or away from others.

Wanna vote Sugar now?

[Thor665]

I'd say I'm content putting *anyone* willing to claim a PR into a 'don't lynch till later' pile.
Besides her claim what's the scum case on her? Because that's the only way this makes sense.

In other news - there's a good scum case on Sugar...hint..hint.

[Thor665]

RC, come play on the Sugar wagon! I'm neutral on that Sonic wagon, I should get some sheep off that last lynch, serious now.

[Thor665]

@Sugar - please describe all my bad reads that make me scum?

[Thor665]

In this list, the only people who were legit suspects IMO are RC, AD, and maybe GIF

And...y'know, Elli. I was kinda dead on the money there last I checked the flips.

though you scum read on everyone else on this list?

The list was people I would be willing to lynch. AKA - people I hadn't town read.

Mastin, Aj, Matty, and NBH are all town, I would even consider them as Obv town.

You're scum-reading Matty and NBH for mainly Anti-town reasons, not scummy reasons

Good work ignoring how my NBH read changed.
I don't see a problem with suspecting Matt.

you havn't explained why you were ever scum-reading Mastin, and Aj

I haven't explained a lot of those reads, why do these two stick out to you?

I'm pretty sure there was a time where you asked Aj to sheep you, and I'm still trying to figure out why you would ask anyone you were suspecting to help you lynch someone.

To see what they do.
It's called scumhunting.

You don't ask people you think is scum to help you, I can't understand the town-mindset behind that, yet you asked us to help vote Elli which is the biggest reason to why I chickened out of that lynch.

No...you *supported that lynch as a 'gotcha' on Thor, and then when I put the pedal to the metal and actual support showed up you fled and tried to help build counterwagons. You thought it was going to be a light and funny bus - and then the business got really-real for realz.

Elli's scumflip does make me reconsider my read on you though and that, maybe you are town who is just having some really, really bad reads

Yup, like how bad my read on Elli was.
I reckon now it's time to find out if my read on you is just as bad.

[Thor665]

Posting from an iPad so my walls are less wall-like. If I missed responding to something it is because it was so boring I forgot it.

@sugar - I see less than no reason to justify how I am treating your slot as one player. Sign your posts or don't. You are one slot and should behave and be treated as such and I find it scummy you are implying specifically otherwise. Please die.

Someone asked me about pitoli/metal. Yes, I agree my read there is weak now. There is a reason I am no longer vocally defending the slot.

I was asked to weigh in on what Sugar did as regards being asked to respond to their thoughts on a read. There is no pass for justifying an old read because it has now changed. That is my thought.

I was asked about my other scum reads even as Sugar bemoans them. Read m0ar.

Matt is still scummy, no one notices.

Someone wanted my sheep on Mastin. I think my Sugar wagon is currently bigger. I will move to the bigger one at any given point, I am a flexible guy.

That is me.

[Thor665]

For the record, I did try multi quote, but iPad no me gusts it.

[Thor665]

Whut?

[Thor665]

@Metal - so who would you say is the scum(s) voting you?

[Thor665]

unvote: Sugar
Vote: mastin

That is hard to type on an iPad.

[Thor665]

A prod at two days while I am on v/la and the thread is being sluggish?

Pffffft!

[Thor665]

I mean, the only thing that makes me slightly wary of Mastin is my (our, we share it) scum read on RC. Mastin has said that he's trying to not bus as scum and yelled at me for bussin' KBW in Voided Nightless. I vaguely remember him having a tendency to RVS his buddies.

Hint: your RC read is really bad.

[Thor665]

Can you quote the post where RC was mod confirmed town?

[Thor665]

you see the peregrine wagon has you + 4 people I don't particularly like. And isoing Peregrine, I don't see anything particularly scummy. nothing real townie either but.

That sums up my thoughts.
And I am in Bangkok right now and not able to spearhead this current game apathy functionally.
You are allowed to have become a whirling dervish in my absence though.
But no one ever fills Thor shaped gaps.

[Thor665]

For the record, presuming we would be allowed to, I am choosing not to hammer.
I think there will be enough deaths via zombies to not need a deadline derp lynch.

[Thor665]

Vote: Sugar Cain

Theorizes about herders quite pointedly.
Does nothing.
Come on people!

[Thor665]

There is still a Sugar wagon needing votes.

[Thor665]

Is there a TiP case?
I think I missed it.

[Thor665]

Thor, no one can convince me that TIP's approach to the Elli wagon at the end of D2 was townie. I don't care that he was the hammer. He was pretty solidly against it for a long time. Until it was nearly inevitable.

My recollection was that he was for it but wanted to "use the time"
I'll admit I don't recall him using the time for much, but I also don't recall an Elli defense - quote or brief synopsis?

[Thor665]

Also, I wanted more explanation of how the scores were reached for the scumputer. I think someone missed that.

Basically she takes vote counts, calculates percentage random chance for one scum to be amongst the unknown alignments, and then calls the percentages just points and adds them together.

Think of it as a regular VCA but choosing to add up the percentages and weigh them accordingly.

For DGB this seems blatantly well explained, really.

[Thor665]

Thor, why aren't you voting mastin?

Because I'm voting Sugar.

[Thor665]

but that'd be a waste of time

For the record, this is why I think mastin is scum.

He is never this pro-town and focused as town.

[Thor665]

Thor, why aren't you voting mastin?

Because I'm voting Sugar.

SC is town. Why don't you just call him

unlynchable town

, the scum will NK him and then you can tunnel someone else.

oh and I know Thor is coming back from Vietnam soon so I expect him to talk to me about Sugar Cain and why I'm so horribly, horribly wrong.

Actually the last place I was was in Thailand, also had Cambodia in the middle somewhere.
Am back now though (and slept for 12+ hours after the flights...egads!

Here's a question for you amidst the crowing town examples you give for Sugar.
The slot complained that I was treating them as a unified entity and suggested it was scummy how I did so, basically saying that because I scumread the actions of half the heads that it was unfair to call the slot scummy unless I could also call the other head scummy as well.

Justify that and maybe I'll change my views on it - until then, not so much.
Sugar is scum.

[Thor665]

I never said your read on Elli was bad, but that doesn't mean your other reads weren't and, I even stated that I am willing to re-think my stance on you so, why even ask why I was scum reading you?

Why are you acting like a flip can't make a person change their reads on someone else?

further more, why are you melding mine, and Nero's actions together when I am making it obvious as to who is doing what?

yeah, we are a hydra and we share one alignment but we are still two separate people who think two totally separate things.

This.
Combine it with the 'you're scumreading Mara' stuff and you see a pattern of trying to obligate people to read them separately as a defense for issues raised with their possting.
Also included in this rather scummy post is that gak of 'but I stopped scumreading you, why do i need to justify why I was scumreading you' which I'd forgotten about but was scummy as hell.

Frankly, the above quoted lines should justify a speed lynch all by themselves to my mind.
And yet no one else is really getting behind that because they 'townread' one of the heads...which is the *opposite* way to read a hydra, and is what the hydra wants me to do, because it is aware I am spotting scumtells from only one head and wants me to fall into the same trap others are.

[Thor665]

This.

I'm assuming the defense of "why are you melding our actions together" is a defense against your accusations of inconsistencies (namely weirdness around Elli lynch). is that wrong? Because if it isn't it's a pretty OK defense. Hydras should be well-oiled machines, but they usually aren't.

Eh, not really true - here is what I said;

No...you *supported [the Elli] lynch as a 'gotcha' on Thor, and then when I put the pedal to the metal and actual support showed up you fled and tried to help build counterwagons. You thought it was going to be a light and funny bus - and then the business got really-real for realz.

That had nothing to do with accusing him of having mixed reads - I accused him of being caught in a buss situation he didn't want. He then weakly tried to redefine i as a conflicting heads argument or something. I have *never* called the slot on dissonance, he *does* keep trying to defend dissonance when talking to me about his actions.

I don't like wasting time typing up cases on scumreads I don't believe in anymore. Do you?

I don't like typing up cases I still believe in, so that's a silly question to ask me
That said, the point i he said he was "considering" changing his read...and that somehow that justified him not defending the reasoning for his read.
I don't really buy that as anything but a cheap buy-off attempt on me. You think I'm off on that?

[Thor665]

Elli's scumflip does make me reconsider my read on you though and that, maybe you are town who is just having some really, really bad reads

Yup, like how bad my read on Elli was.
I reckon now it's time to find out if my read on you is just as bad.

I had also forgotten about this.
Consider the logic for a moment;

Thor's "really, really bad reads" is a big issue he has with my slot.
Literally I do not think anyone has flipped that I called anything but the alignment they have flipped - meaning every source of evidence available shows my reads have been excellent.
But he wants to downplay my reads and dismiss them off-hand while trying to appease me with his 'might town read ya dog' move.

The only hanging read that matters at that moment?
My scum read on him.
But my reads are 'really, really bad'?
I don't buy it - he doesn't care about any of my reads except that I waant him lynched - and that is why he needs to downplay it. If he looked at the results of my reads on the flips my reads are 'really, really, good'.
It's all fake.

[Thor665]

I think for that slot you were just supposed to say 'the claim makes her almost undoubtedly town considering how mod helped sell it for her' and save us all some time.

[Thor665]

Those were ffery methinks.

[Thor665]

@Sugar - that is nothing like what my issue with you is. One head had decided to softclaim slightly, and the other head didn't want to explicitly full claim at your demand. Even if the softclaim head was still there it's not like they had remotely indicated desire to full claim - so this is not a viable rebuttal or even counter example.

@Desp - OGML is probably less likely scum, since probably the only way he's scum is if he's a SK.
I still don't get the Titus hate everyone else has. Is he on this list for being scummy, or just for not being bleeding town? Because if it's the former I'd like an explanation, if it's the latter then let's at least shove him and OGML into a secondary lynch bracket.
I also don't get why you think Sugar has remotely made enough points on RC to be considered as a viable weakening of the town energy of that slot. Clarify?

[Thor665]

You had a scum read on us (but its not like that's why you were scumreading us to begin with) 'cause I said that you were scumreading us for Mara's posting. YOU said this was scummy 'cause "trying to obligate people to read them separately as a defense for issues raised with their possting."

Yet when I pointed out what looked like a mason softclaim, Titus was all "oh that was Wayne" which is that

EXACT

same thing you are calling us on so try again. Why is it not scummy?

You also

LIED

about us calling you scummy for suspecting one head.

1. It is not the same thing. It's not scummy because refusing to full claim after making a softclaim that indicated they didn't want to fullclaim isn't inherently scummy in any way at all.

2. I did not lie - if you think I did to the point you need to bold it to show your outrage than vote me. You are scum.

[Thor665]

@ thor

in the early part of the game I was yaye! yaye! yaye! go thor! but I am losing that with your insistent sc push. the biggest reason being that I am confused as the reasons you have them for scum since those are not actual scumtells. and a seasoned player such as yourself ought to know that. plus your post about the gm "selling us as town" is a misrep IMO unless you are bemoaning about flavour and the claims so far. tbh that post is something I would more expect from petulant scum, not strong town.

My reasons for suspecting Sugar are scumtells -that you disagree that they are scumtells actually doesn't change that.

The fact that you don't even understand what I meant when i said the mod had confirmed you pretty much nvalidates you then trying to figure out why I'd say what I said.
Here's a hint - the mod explicitly stated in thread what the Baiter role was, and prior to the Baiter flip you had claimed other roles that affected the Zombies. So...y'know. But if you want me to happily read through boring posts explaining why you're town with a straight face I can lie and say I will.

1. Yea, its the same thing.

Example of Thor finding Sugar scum

Thor:Sugar is scum for X, Y, Z
Nero head:all those are things Mara said

Example of Sugar finding Titus scum

Nero head:I think you should full claim.
Titus: That's something that Wayne posted (and, by the by, he never indicated desire to fullclaim regardless) and I don't intend to full claim.

FTFY

2. quote the post where I/this slot accused you of being scum for reading one head as scum. I don't remember saying anything like that and I don't think Mara has either but I'll drop it once you quote it.

Already did this a few pages back. Go read more.

[Thor665]

What was she inferring my action as?

Because, hint, she wasn't suggesting that what I was doing was a good thing...therefore she was suggesting...?

[Thor665]

...y'know...tip of my tongue...opposite of a good thing...probably meant as a call of it being town play...except maybe the opposite...what is it...?

[Thor665]

So TiP is claiming lyncher, and we still need to lynch Sugar - what else did I miss?

[Thor665]

:/

but he stuck in your role name, yeah?

[Thor665]

I'm about ready to help lynch anyone at this stage.

[Thor665]

Why is Mastin scummy for tunneling on Action Dan but Thor is not scummy for tunneling on us?

[Thor665]

Yeah Sugar is Town

Because only town whine?

[Thor665]

Nah, overwrought and with a self vote in the middle of it - not town.

[Thor665]

Also, note there was nothing done to make the pressure on Mastin greater, so he was okay discussing the wagon yesterday, then got some sleep, and *then* became filled with passion about the lynch?
Not selling me.

[Thor665]

That you want me to believe they were overwrought with emotion for 10 minutes worth of ranting on an issue that has been around for weeks does.
I'm pretty sure the Mastin suspicion is hardly a new thing, and it's not like it's suddenly the big thing either - but we get that reaction.
It feels very fake.

Why does it feel so shockingly real to you to the point you're defending it?

[Thor665]

Shockingly real? Not at all; I just don't see it as something that can further your scumread on them

Eh...you called it a town tell and then got defensive about it when I said I didn't.
You are defending it rather strongly considering how weak of a tell either way it was - whassup? You scum who knows it's a towntell? You a scumbuddy trying to help shore up his partner? Let me know.

[Thor665]

How does he not?

[Thor665]

Are we playing a game of "switch the burden of proof"?

So you're saying there is nothing to prevent you being scumbuddies?
In that case that's a good enough reason to suggest you might be.

[Thor665]

Yes, except that you rule *out* partnerships, you don't rule them in.
Functionally, if you like, take what I said when I mentioned the possibility of you being partners and consider that my entire case - you defending his weak non-town tell.

Now, why am I wrong?

[Thor665]

I am now content to lynch TiP or Sugar.

[Thor665]

Didn't I just figure it out?

Unvote: Sugar Cain
Vote: TiP

[Thor665]

I defended a player in a scummy way, wherein Thor pointed out why he thought it was scummy, and then I got really antsy about it, launched into an awkward defense of myself and didn't even address Thor's case when Thor presented the case I asked for, proving my defense was random bluster.

Yeah, segment over.
Day over too, in a little bit.

[Thor665]

Unvote: TiP
Vote: Mastin

Derp on me I suppose.
But I will note with his investigation that awkward defense now makes sense.

[Thor665]

@Thor hahahahahahahahaha

Says the guy who looked so town the cop decided to investigate him.
Pull the other one, it has bells on.
Hahahahaha.

[Thor665]

so who is Mastin's buddy Thor?

You think there's only one?

[Thor665]

[Thor665]

I'm Hershel.

[Thor665]

Thor can full claim too.

[Thor665]

No.

[Thor665]

As currently stands I'm being copped.
That means either tonight I will be killed, or I'll be town - in neither case do I see a need to full claim for either eventuality.

[Thor665]

As currently stands I'm being copped.

We're not copping you.

We'll be copping Desperado instead.

You, we are killing.

Which, again, lacks a need for me to bend to your beliefs of when I should or shouldn't claim.

[Thor665]

Which, again, lacks a need for me to bend to your beliefs of when I should or shouldn't claim.

[Thor665]

I eat zombies for breakfast.

So only send them then.

[Thor665]

I don't even know how that is a threat - there's a thing called hiding.
Get the actual Vig to threaten me if you want to see me wet myself in terror. Your power is not scary at all.

[Thor665]

Look at this shit. Look at how dumb it is.

"Caught for the wrong reasons"

Most nonsensical scumtell ever.

FTFY.

[Thor665]

Thor, save yourself and claim

Here's the way this works.

If I am so scummy that I need to be vigged or copped - then whatever I claim shouldn't change that I am that level of scummy and I should be vigged or copped regardless.
Also, as the person with my role, I'm the only town player who can properly assess if that information is needed by town, making the need to claim my choice, not anyone else's. You can react to my choice, but you shouldn't dictate it.
That's why I am not claiming.

I mean, even at this stage, the primary person wanting me to claim has just called me town.
That means either her town read, or her scum read (or, natch, both) were weak and silly to begin with and never deserving of a claim in the first place.

Make sense?

[Thor665]

no one considers more than one town cop.

[Thor665]

People hate Titus is all I can divine.

[Thor665]

Sugar Cain is town, big surprise here.

VOTE: Thor

Oh, hey look, she changed her mind because of info she had yesterday.
I'd suggest this is silly, but then I'd be character assassinating her.

Vote: Pere

[Thor665]

the night flavor seems like t-dogg was murdered instead of randomkilled, ya'know?

like those herder thingys or those "walker lures"]

The lures, according to Mod, draw kills unto themselves...so unless he bodyguarded a lure player who decided to lure onto themselves...

That we have a claimed cop and a dead Bodyguard seems pretty self explanatory to me, frankly.

[Thor665]

I didn't mind the block claim, or even the presumed block claim, but the backtrack is ganky.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Pere
Vote: OGML

Dance for us.

[Thor665]

Dance about on his grave?
That was my plan.

[Thor665]

why wouldn't he shoot last night as SK? as scum?

Why would he lie about being blocked as town and then change his story without admitting he was lying and explaining why, but just trying to rush past it?
I can think of explanations, but I want to hear his reasoning first.

He needs to do some dancing, don't preemptively leap for protection.

[Thor665]

@OGML - weren't you using "I was roleblocked" as a reason to lynch Titus though? Also, what do you think happened last night, because I am curious why you think scum focused about you so much with a claimed Cop in the mix.

[Thor665]

I kept pushing Titus until TiP posted and confirmed I hadn't actually been roleblocked because he had. I didn't want to tip my hand early.

What I think happened is that scum RBed the cop, killed the innocent result he already had, and left me alone thinking I was shooting town anyway.

Why did I have to ask for explanation to hear this?

[Thor665]

I don't know, why didn't you just accept the obvious before I had to spell it out for you?

Because...it wasn't obvious, maybe?

Why would you think you'd be roleblocked on a night after a Cop claimed a guilty on scum and got said scum lynched to the point you'd base case off it?

[Thor665]

Desp, how often is a one shot vig traitor?

I think that's a question you ought to be able to answer for yourself.
I'll go ahead and link all my games that had one too.

That said, his point is that killing a town player is hardly the gold standard for 'I'm not scumz!'
All OGML has going for him in that scenario is that with the Zombie kill mechanic it is arguable that there are not multiple anti-town killing factions.

[Thor665]

Titus, it wasn't an intentional gambit. I just realized when TiP wasn't dead that if he was town he had probably gotten roleblocked and not me, and if that was the case you were probably town, but I thought it was better to act like I hadn't had that realization until TiP confirmed or denied that he had gotten results.

I'm good with my vote where it is.

[Thor665]

So Thor why aren't you hunting for mafia? Do you think I am mafia, or SK? If I'm mafia who do you think my partners are? If I'm SK,

why aren't you looking for mafia?

I was hunting for Mafia until you claimed scum.
But solid deflection attempt.

And I wasn't aware that it is anti-town to lynch SKs, tell me more.

[Thor665]

Really, you haven't heard of Selective Scumhunting? Let me teach you a lesson sonny...

Thor, why do you keep ignoring my question? I don't care if you think you're lynching an SK, you have to lynch MAFIA eventually too. Who do you think is Mafia?

Gosh, I dunno, why do you keep ignoring that before I voted you today I was doing other stuff?

[Thor665]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this defense.

Thor: <scumhunting ver 5.0>
OGML: I'mma fakeclaim being roleblocked and base scumhunting off that, but it was all an elaborate scheme to do...um...pretty much nothing.
Thor: <vote: OGML>
OGML: How dare you, I killed someone!
Thor: Yup...still voting you.
OGML: Selective scumhunting!
Thor:
OGML: I'mma learn you, son.
Thor: I'mma lynch you, scum.

[Thor665]

Direct quotes.

[Thor665]

Yes, and considering the amount of time available before you declared scum, I find that a pretty decent spate of things that I was doing. It's even more than most people had.
Especially since you want to claim I decided you were scummy as some sort of way to get out of doing other stuff.

[Thor665]

And you know I voted Pere but have no idea who I think is scum?
And also think i voted you to avoid scumhunting when the entire concept of a naked vote to open a day is, wait for it, scumhunting.
And also ignored how I was the one who got people to notice Cy wasn't scummy by...wait for it...scumhunting!
Yeah, pretty much that stuff.

[Thor665]

Actually, ignore the Cy thing - I'm confusing another ongoing where I'm also dealing with DGB cases.
Mah bad!

[Thor665]

He voted Titus because he was "roleblocked" - yes, he claimed his target.

[Thor665]

Eh, I tend to believe he killed Majiffy - it would be rather ballsy to claim otherwise unless it's something weird like a two man SK or something (which, yes, I have seen - and yes, we told the mod that meant they weren't SK, but a 2 man Mafia team).

The issue is that he wants us to buy that a not exactly pro-town kill somehow translates to him being town when paired with a rather questionable lynch push over the last few days and then his big suspicion is 'hey, look, someone called me on this questionable play, now they must be scum'.

I'm still trying to figure out why Pere wanted to defend him though, because that was weird. I dunno, maybe scum think he is a Vig.

[Thor665]

You're losing me - is that an argument for OGML not killing Majiffy?

[Thor665]

He voted Titus because he was "roleblocked" - yes, he claimed his target.

Link where he claimed to have shot Titus last night.

Pedantic scum is pedantic.
Are you seriously arguing that when he said 'I can't kill Titus because I keep getting roleblocked <vote: Titus>'
That it is a claim of 'I may have shot anyone - who knows?'

[Thor665]

V/LA - tomorrow through...mid Octoberish

Sorry, looks like I just landed a gig tonight, very last minute. I will have internet but will also be doing 6 day work weeks so...y'know.

[Thor665]

I regret reading all of those posts.

I support an OGML lynch.
I'll settle for a Pere lynch, but think that's pretty lulzy considering what OGML has done.
I have no idea where the Desp lynch idea has even come from, setup spec for scum numbers is...pretty, y'know, fething normal. As in, I don't think I've ever seen a non-open Large *not* have it.

[Thor665]

I am amazed at the people not wanting to lynch the proven liar here.
I am also amazed I can't even get a nibble on the Pere alternate wagon.
Instead we have the MS 'he's a derp' wagon, the Desperado 'people voting him are derp' wagon, and the Ank 'Meh, whatever, let's lynch this guy' wagon as competition.

Sangres should get some grapefruits.
The Desp wagon should die.
More votes on the SK or on Pere please.

[Thor665]

I would also note that OGML's biggest issue with my voting him is that I'm scumhunting the SK and not scum (ignoring that I only did so when he, y'know, claimed scum).
He never attacked my reasoning for thinking he was the SK though.
Y'know.
Saying...

[Thor665]

Because Pere looks like he has an agenda and MS is running through the thread looking for the pants he's wearing on his head?

[Thor665]

Sorry Thor I just didn't really feel like talking to your ego anymore.

Good point, we had *such* an intense and lengthy debate about my case on you that I can see why you'd want to back off and be pro-town by not bogging everyone down in the details.

I mean, just because I can't even begin to find that debate in my or your iso is probably my failing, not you misrepresenting what went down.

[Thor665]

I also love OGML's logic that I'm scum, defending my scumbuddy of MS...back when Titus was on the block I also stood up for him, and now OGML is all 'yay, Titus = teh townz! via my pseudo-scumhunt gambit of lying about trying to kill someone and also trying to get them lynched due to my lies'
But, y'know, we ignore that and just go with the moment.

A moment where the SK forgets he's not voting me *or* my scumbuddy MS...but is voting my *other* scumbuddy Desp.

Oh gawds people, why?

[Thor665]

You've obviously either 1) decided I am the SK and that you won't be swayed (this is if you're town) or 2) decided that you don't care what I flip since you're just looking for the simplest mislynch anyway so yes I am done talking to you

It *is* difficult to debate when I am absolutely right and you know it, huh?
Aren't I scum for not scumhunting? Wasn't that your big win, and then when I pointed out how I *had* been until you were busted in a lie you suddenly went quiet on the matter?

Yeah.
I remember it like that too.

[Thor665]

Someone please quote my lies for me

I can't seem to find them myself but then again I'm obviously a complete idiot who could never win an argument so maybe someone with a brain can find them for me

Still can't find these boy do I feel stupid help me out here folks

Well...do you remember at the start of the day when people thought you were a Vig and basically pro town?
Then, do you remember when you claimed you were blocked and that's why your kill didn't go through?
Then, do you remember when you were like 'lulz, no, I wasn't blocked, that wuz a gambit! Ignore all the reads I've presented so far today based off mah gambitin'!'
And then, oddly, everyone suddenly thought you looked less town?
That was your lie.

I can go quote it - but this doesn't actually feel like a defense, so I'm not sure what it would or wouldn't prove, as you were well aware of the lies I had issue with from you.
But!
Now that you are 'told' them for the first time EVAH! Now you can respond to my case, that up to this point, had contained no mention of your lies, clearly.

[Thor665]

Then, do you remember when you claimed you were blocked and that's why your kill didn't go through?

Oddly enough I don't remember claiming this at all!

Oh, I see, because you didn't explicitly state that this is what happened but instead strongly suggested it by everything you said it therefore means it's not a lie and instead a clever gambit.
What about the night before? Was that one a clever gambit too?
And your vote then, on a guy you may or may not have been blocked while trying to kill?

No, it was a lie, and this is a semantics defense that Pere already is working for you and you're piggy-backing.
Nope, you lied and now you die.

[Thor665]

OMGL, why don't you Smurfing shoot me or move on already? This repeated voting of me and again no extra death makes you really Smurfing suspect.

As has been covered ad nauseum, my shots don't get to go through until we lynch the mafia roleblocker. Nice fakerage though.

"My shots don't get to go through because...apparently I am not trying to get them through at all...it's a gambit!
A gambit that makes you scum for multiple days and lets me tunnel you without needing a case, and then if you flip town it's just, lulz, scum musta RBed me to frame him, Lulz!"

[Thor665]

Now, are you going to try to convince anyone else to vote for me, or are you just going to keep yelling at me while the wagon on me loses steam instead of gaining any?

Funny, I sort of thought I was doing exactly this.
But, yeah, sure, let's wait a few and see where the bodies tumble.

[Thor665]

Your original Vig claim made sense.
Your lie did not.
Oh, wait, I'm sorry, I forgot it was pro-town to not reexamine a read after the player claims scum. Mah bad!

[Thor665]

Oooh, and as I recall part of my defense was 'let him kill again to verify role' wasn't it?
It was!

[Thor665]

Oooh, and as I recall part of my defense was 'let him kill again to verify role' wasn't it?
It was!

So? If you're scum you know your team has an RB. You could safely set me up for this very fall you're now trying to force me to take. Big freaking whoop.

Yes, how clever of me to foresee you claiming you were roleblocked by me and my scumbuddies - then waiting for you to lie about it when we decided to roleblock a cop instead.
How duecedly diabolical of me to set you up that way.

[Thor665]

You can tell it was a setup, because when you claimed you were roleblocked yesterday I called you scum right away...oh, wait, I didn't.
Then when you calimed roleblock today I...no...no, I didn't.
Hey, look, I even believed the scum kill was on the cop and the block was on you because I theorized about the Bodyguard death.
But, *clearly* I was just waiting to rope you in to my master gambit of your own gambit.
Fear me!

[Thor665]

You can tell it was a setup, because when you claimed you were roleblocked yesterday I called you scum right away...oh, wait, I didn't.
Then when you calimed roleblock today I...no...no, I didn't.
Hey, look, I even believed the scum kill was on the cop and the block was on you because I theorized about the Bodyguard death.
But, *clearly* I was just waiting to rope you in to my master gambit of your own gambit.
Fear me!

Now, all you need to add is the scum motivation for him to use the gambit and clear the guy he's been chasing for the past day.

But like I already said, this basically conftowns Titus because the scum didn't think I was worth blocking or killing when they thought I was shooting Titus last night.

Are you sertious?
The scum motivation is called 'oh gawds, they caught me in a lie, abort, abort!'
He *had* to change his read because he could no longer claim Titus was scum for roleblocking his kill - derp.

Dude, town-Thor is so clear and present in this thread. Tunneling is what he does, and he stays on a tunnel target until he's got damn good reason to move on. The thing is, when he's wrong, and enough other town players can see he's wrong, it doesn't go anywhere.

Explain to me the amazing concept of thinking he, as Vig, was roleblocked with a cop in play and no flipped protective roles?
When, the GRAND TOTAL of his "results" from his gambit is - oh, yeah, the case I've been making for TWO days is bupkiss...by the way, I was lying to do it, hur!

That is not town logic.
That is 'lasting till endgame' logic.

PS your objectives are my objectives right now. You're voting who I'm voting and you are going to shoot the person that you called me scummy for tunnelling on just a little while ago. And Sangres' objectives are also my objectives, which you just said you are willing to buy. So...????

Oh snap, if you go a little further maybe you'll notice that OGML's role PM isn't about being town.

Also, just pointing out - remember our 'town core' from earlier in the game.
Yeah, that's the list of people that OGML is desperate to get on the lynch block.
Why?
Hint...not...wait for it...town.

[Thor665]

Maybe. I don't think he's lasting until endgame though, and people who scum-aligned are larger threats.
I also think it's completely possible he just Smurfed up; it wouldn't surprise me at all, especially this game.

You mean "people who are mafia aligned" are larger threats?
That said, I have never been drastically sold on people who argue that somehow SKs are less dangerous than Mafia. Yeah, okay, they lack teammates - but last I checked they were working against the town wincon.

I might buy his smurfup if his play was otherwise derpy. But he doesn't strike me as being lulzbad at the game, which then begs the question why he tried such a lulzbad gambit.
It does make sense as a decent desperation cover up.

Here's my prediction - he saw the dead bodyguard, figured he'd been on the cop, and figured it would be safe to still claim roleblocked and push his agenda as he had been doing.

Scum just says "Your lucky I didn't shoot you Titus, your still scum.", thus leaving themselves available to continue to mislynch town-Titus. They don't lock themselves out a mislynch for absolutely no reason.

Yeah...scum *could* say that, unless they had set up the mislynch like he had for the past TWO DAYS STRAIGHT WHILE APPARENTLY LYING ABOUT IT.

Yes, I understand you are scum and are desperate to buddy to a killing role so as to prevent the risk of being shot in the face.
I am unimpressed though.

[Thor665]

This broken record Smurf is getting old. Can I just shoot Thor?

I dunno, can you? I figured you'd be too busy hiding and claiming you were roleblocked and then trying to get me lynched because of it.
But, yeah, please, if town is too dumb to lynch you shoot me in the face.
Then town will smarten up about you tomorrow.

@Sangres - I think that's called 'fear of zombie' Last I checked there was an either/or deal with hiding.

[Thor665]

He lied about being roleblocked more than one night.

I would presume it's an increasing fear though considering random chance with a depreciating number of options, that should suggest an increased fear of death by Walker as the nights progress, not a decreasing one.

[Thor665]

I'm getting at that he's more focused on hiding than shooting despite having scum reads he's screaming about in thread.
That suggests he isn't actually interested in winnowing down town's lynch options, but is interested in making it through Night Phase intact.
Also, his actions make quite a lot of sense, despite whatever Pere is smoking, as someone lying trying to backpeddle from what they were selling.
Ergo - he is not town.
Thus, needs rope.

[Thor665]

If there were going to be an SK in a game like this I can't even imagine a fair scenario where he could ever be susceptible to getting eaten by random chance. That makes the solo win condition an even longer shot than it already is.

So you'd rather suggest that a random kill mechanic that both mafia and town have control over would leave you totally immune to it?
Nah, judging by the kills it's not even looking like Mafia is overflowing with ability to kill.

We had two non-zombie kills Night 1.
0 Night 2.
1 Night 3

For all we know your kill is a scum double kill via sacking a future kill or something.
For all we know the Mafia kill is every other night.
Or maybe every night that they don't use some sort of enhanced zombie kill rage power.
I still see it as workable with an SK who is succeptible to zombies or a Mafia team with no SK present just as much as a Mafia team with a Zombie-immune SK.

But if you want to call that unbalanced and weird, here's another one to consider;
Mafia with kill.
Plus random zombie kills 1-3(+?) a night
Plus a town Vig also shooting...?

I dunno, that hardly seems massively and brilliantly balanced either.
I think we have too many PRs at the moment, frankly, especially if you want me to believe they are all town.
And you are the filthy liar of the batch, so...y'know...rope.

[Thor665]

Hey, I'm even willing to buy that you have limited shots. That could make sense balance wise.
I just don't think you're a town Vig is all.

[Thor665]

I would believe that as much as a number of other possibilities I listed, yes.

[Thor665]

When going on just one limb wouldn't support your weight, go out on all the limbs!

"Thor is scum for not claiming to absolutely know the setup"

And I've got to back this up for a second again, Thor. In a game where I've been derided belittled and pretty much ignored as the biggest idiot around, you're going to pin this case to the fact that I'm too good for this to be my town play?

Whether or not other people think you've been playing dumb is immaterial to my opinion of whether or not I think you've been playing dumb.
I have not indicated at any time I thought you were playing dumb until you did something I thought made no sense unless you are a raging lackwit...or scum...and at that point I called you scum, not a raging lackwit.
:shrug:
So, basically this defense doesn't actually make any defensive inroads except that it *does* show you're aware your play is incredibly bad and nonsensical if you want people to believe you're town so that you're actually trying to grab onto the concept that you've been playing bad all game as a way to help justify your actions today.

[Thor665]

The shoot Sangres plan?
Let's not and say we did.

[Thor665]

Hey, look, Pere and OGML are both on the wagon.

Who do you think the two are, maybe we can make a confrere and sort this out.

[Thor665]

Above is @DGB

[Thor665]

Nacho disagrees. In his experience pere's agenda is more about survival than about changing the game state favorably for his team.

<3 Nacho.

[Thor665]

I almost want to say the people worrying about plotting night actions look obv. town simply because unless MS is an RBer than it really doesn't matter what the plan is except that OGML should

lie

claim his target(s) so they're not investigated.

[Thor665]

I think we do too...you expecting him to flip scum considering his reactions?

[Thor665]

I am guessing we are mylo given the numbers or mebbe I can't cont.

alive are:

ogml
thor
tippy
rc
perv
titus
desp
us

@ tippy

this is like the skype game with orci and varsoon where orci counterclaimed the doc. anka is orci and we should lynch him. plz help.

titus's response to ms's flip reads like textbook scum to me. anka, rc, titus? still have nigglings of ogml as a sk.

desp plzplzplzplzplzplzplz

thor plz. if there is a town bone in your body plz help. if you think I am wrong at least tell me where I am misstepping.

What is the case for Red Coyote = scum?

[Thor665]

NBH's case on Ank bewilders me and...wait for it Mollie...does not seem to have any logic.

Vote: Pere

[Thor665]

I also still support lynching OGML, he is still an SK and you people are silly to trust anyone who wanted Sangres dead.

[Thor665]

Then why is your vote not on titus who explicitly gave orders a bunch of times to ogml in the "name of town" to shoot sangres?

If I always voted people for saying derpy things then in any game I was in with you I'd never need to move my vote.
Lots of people told OGML lots of things - I'm guessing he still made the kill he thought was best.
He apparently would now like us to believe that the most pro-town shot was shooting Sangres.
Just let that one soak in a bit.

god

dammit

thor, I have been keeping dgb off of you all game and here it is mylo and you freaking bring up the possibility of lynching an sk?

There are 9 people alive.
There are 3 dead Mafia.
You apparently agree with me that there's an SK (who, for the record, I wanted dead yesterday because the killing needs to stop)
How big of a scum team do you want me to believe there is in this setup to the point I should think it is mylo? Please, fill me in.

Can we hear from TiP as to who he checked?

Though...for the record, i think this is a town tell.
But it's also good reason not to listen to who he wants to get shot in the face.

I did say that repeatedly. I thought OMGL and Sangres were scum buddies. I pushed hard to test that theory and lynch my scum suspect.

They didn't look anything like buddies, and OGML was trying to sell that it would make sense for him to shoot Sangres - an action most players seemed rather against.
Unless I missed the giant wall of people who thought Sangres looked scummy.
It would have made far more pro town sense to shoot you or I, frankly, because at least over half the town seems to suspect us.
But he didn't do that - he made a pro scum shot that he wants to sell as town, aka SK 101.
Also, how could he be a Mafia buddy when we haven't had anone shoot him or counterclaim Vig? *Someone* shot Majiffy, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a fellow Mafia.

[Thor665]

Never mind, majiffy was town, and Chess was the dead scum who was eaten by Zombies.
I am retard tonight - ignore!

[Thor665]

I am beginning to think your ealry game defenses may have been white knighting.

Since the definition of white knighting is defending someone...yes, they were.
I'm guessing you mean something else though - clarify?
Unfounded? Scummy? Derpy? What are you saying.

@ Mollie: help me lynch OGML and we can kill Ank dead tomorrow, k?

Where was this yesterday?

2. OK? Again this assumes that I'm right about there being multiple herders for both sides. Matt had been setting himself up as confirmable all game and then he took a suboptimal role. The most likely solution is that he took the role that he could most truthfully emulate, and even if his scumbuddy Mastin flipped he could just convince the town that scum only had 1.

I will agree Desp has a pretty good point with the confirmable thing. I'd forgotten about that and had just written it off as fishing to be NKed.
I'd like Ank to at least clarify who they herded towards last night.

dgb said on our wb that she sent the zombies to thor so either none of our zombie choices are going through for some reason or scum have some type of redirector role or something. I have pretty much been letting dgb make the zombie kill choices.

Or I hid.
Or another herder's action invalidated yours.
Or you don't understand the random percentage deal that the zombies are working with.
I feel like you're leaping to the least likely scenarios in your musing.

[Thor665]

Because I don't do that when town...?

[Thor665]

Because I don't do that when town...?

You do not.

Enjoy delicious rope.

What?
Justify this stance.

[Thor665]

A lot of town players have said Thor as scum at one point or another. Thor's response to my suggestion he was whiteknighting isn't exactly the best either. I'll sheep NBH for now.

VOTE: Thor665

Please define white knighting as long as we are talking weak replies.

[Thor665]

Justify this stance.

I am in your brain.

I know your thoughts.

You are scum, you will be served rope.

So...this is more made up meta then?
Per the Mollie head's usual playstyle preference?

Because in Audio Mafia I was super nice to everyone who disagreed with me and didn't cut down anyone, am I right, Mollie?

@OGML - So you're saying TiP is scum, and cleared Sugar Cain, so that the scum team could give up the easy counter lynch to himself? And the rest of the scum team is everyone who suspects you and maybe RC?



@Desp - I feel this does shoot the SK theory in the foot though, yeah? At this stage either there is a scum Strongman type of effect in play, or OGML is either worst SK ever or town by my accounting.

[Thor665]

Don't think what I did was scummy at all

+

Attacker is an idiot

=

Thortown

[Thor665]

Actually, I'm game to lynch DGB now too - Mollie is either lying or too dumb to be trusted if she thinks I was nice in Audio Mafia.

i will happily provide linkage for *anyone* who wants to listen to even a bit of what I was saying in order to prove how bad of a misrep that is.

[Thor665]

@NBH - and how come you're avoiding touching the TiP/OGML thing?

Which one is your buddy?

Because one of them is scum and you're like 'nyah, nyah, lying over here!'

[Thor665]

Meta case made up of falsehood

+

Avoiding major scumtell involving role interaction

=

DGBscum.

[Thor665]

This would also explain why you tried to sell 'scum redirector' for me being alive from zombies when the more simple 'hid last night' was a potential option.

[Thor665]

@Mollie - yes, I am so in fear of the DGB head that when I wish to bring up a game you and I were in to show how your slot is lying I do not reference her. Amazing work.

This case is dumb.

And I must be scum because I disagree with it, for only Thorscum thinks cases on him are dumb or downplays other people's play.
Derp.

No, you are scum, you are avoiding dealing with your busted buddy, and you are praying you can take me down because I figured you out.

@Desp - respond to me about the OGML thing now? Are you going with strongman as the theory? Because he cannot be SK, yeah?

[Thor665]

@Desp - I feel this does shoot the SK theory in the foot though, yeah? At this stage either there is a scum Strongman type of effect in play, or OGML is either worst SK ever or town by my accounting.

Didn't see it before. Why can't OGML be an SK again?

Because the only way it doesn't is if both claimed PRs are anti-town, and if that's the case we should be lynching TiP?

Look, here's the breakdown;

TiP town
OGML scum (SK)

TiP *was* roleblocked then, and OGML was not. As the SK he now has an option, claim to be roleblocked, get the Cop lynched, and then be lynched the next day, probably with the scum still RBing him so he can't kill them either. Auto lose for OGML SK if this is what's going down, so why do it?

TiP scum
OGML town

This makes sense on its face, and doesn't need explanation I would think.

TiP town
OGML scum (Mafia)

This makes sense also just on its face and doesn't need explanation. in this scenario the extra death was some sort of scum Strongman thing justified by the loss of kill the next night, yadda, yadda.

TiP scum (Mafia)
OGML scum (SK)

I...suppose this could work too (but would make me wonder where our PRs are then) and might be a gambit for OGML to go for if he was desperate to get off the lynch block. I can see the strategy here, but find the disturbing lack of town power to be a pretty solid argument against it.

Ergo - OGML is not an SK.
make sense or am I crazy?

[Thor665]

My eyes are brown. Stop stalking me.

Uh-huh...

So...you think OGML is some sort of scum then? What sort?

Re: Audio - If I sounded nice in Audio it was only because hearing my voice let you hear my mocking tones in a different way than reading them. I called you, and multiple other players, bad repeatedly in that game. That is the scumtell you're using on me here, that I degrade other player's play ability. I pretty much did nothing but complain that people didn't even know how to play the game in Audio...but apparently i did it in a "nice" way, and so it's totally a legit call here? Bollocks - you're lying.

Okay, here's a quote of Thor not downplaying people's skills in Audio Mafia and being nice;
Thor's Post #29

When did it become such a good town plan to call someone town and then vote them? Because BBMolla did it, and it was stupid as hell when he did it. And Salmance did it, and it was stupid as hell when he did it.
I don't even caaaaaare what alignment Salmance is.
It was Stupid. As. Hell.
So he and BS2000 can go start hugging each other and arguing about who really should be mocked the most this game.

How's that?

I have said stuff about the missing NKs - I think i was the first to do so. Read M0ar.
Yes, you claimed a random mechanic killed a scum and that you controlled it, and then haven't claimed any zombie kill since even though town keeps dying to zombies. I think either you're lying about your role, lying about your control of your role, or lying about your targets.

And your reverse case is that I'm scum with OMGL...I'll just let that soak into people's heads for a little bit.

[Thor665]

Audio Mafia!

BBMolla said 'hey, this guy's town...HAMMER' which is amongst some of the derpiest play I've ever seen.
And that's your obv. town, BBMolla the obv. town!

I personally think anyone with half a brain can look at my vote and see where it's coming from...but *you* might have a different opinion.

Really? I'm your second scummiest player, a player you can't read? Maybe...you oughta do something about that?

I feel like you're a goldfish. I don't hink you have any recollection ability to what's going on in the game.

No wonder you can't read me, because you aren't reading me...or listening to me, however you want to describe it.

I'm going to open up by saying Mollie is lying, but is not a liar...because apparently that's the polite way to do it.
This introduction might be a bit sarcastic.

While we're at it, you said I don't play like this in any of my other games...well, how is that?

Trololololol That one is awesome, you did making up of my meta even then.

BS2000 offered up his amazing derp plan of 'let's only lynch once' because *that's* the optimal thing to do...I'll wrack that up as further derp telling, but I'm almost tempted to lynch him just for that.

Awesome, we got BS2000, I'm sure that was super helpful to everyone. He called me a town read and is still voting me and I'm one of the biggest wagons

This is so incredibly *bad* I can't convey to you how frustrated and hateful of whichever one of you out there also has a town PM. You guys are messing this up so bad.

Even I am tired of listening to my own voice at this stage.
But, yeah, you're right, I was totally polite and certainly didn't have vitriol remotely akin to my obv. scum play here.
Lawlz!

[Thor665]

Self- meta is scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum

Who's flailing where now?

gee, mebbe I think he is a sk LIKE I HAVE SAID 80 MILLION TIMES IN THIS THREAD!!!!!

Well, not only does one head disagree with you (maybe...) could you at least address my case showing he isn't an SK?

not quite the same IMO. and I do agree the medium changes how some1 receives info I believe I said this already?

Why not show me a post with the vociferousness I showed here that is so different then?

do you have a link to the game or are you going to make me go dig

I do not - I just have all my audio files saved and still on my hard drive.

also you will to explain the benefit as to the scum motivation behind lying about your play in audio (for entertainment purposes). it couldn't be that I just have a different recollection/interpretation now could it?

I think there's a *big* scum issue when you're using flat out wrong meta to paint me as scum, and then lie about past interactions to prove the point.
Is the defense now "we remembered things wrong, but our meta claims about Thor should still be listened to" because I don't accept that.

so you think we nked chesskid, yes or no

No, even if you are telling the utter truth, because you and others have explained that's not how your role works.
I *know* he died due to random zombie mechanic.
I have your word that you made it happen even though literally no other deaths have been able to happen because of you.
So either you're trying to claim more credit than you deserve, or are lying about what you're up to.

we explained how our role works when we outed. it is not guaranteed to go through. nice try tho

Did DGB forget that when she used it as part of a case on me?

and for the millionth cos you seem a little....slow this morning I think ogml is the sk and you are scum.

He makes no sense as the SK.
I make no sense as scum.
So...actually this is alignment neutral for both of you - but the other stuff holds water.
Oh, snap, dispersion again! How does Thor ever survive when he only does that as scum? No one knows!

[Thor665]

Town will win. I can assure that.

If OGML is scum, why does he not just say yes, that sangres was him. It was requested, and he could claim he was just following requests, and as a matter of fact, everyone thought he did do it until the claimed he didn't.

Because if he's scum he's angling to get the cop mislynched without having to sweat any defensive roles?
I thought that was apparent.

but you're saying you're townreading OGML, yeah?

[Thor665]

...are you even reading the game?
At least pretend better.

I am currently saying he is proven *not* SK.
I need to be able to auto lynch the three of you and then it's probably town victory.

[Thor665]

Then you are saying he is scum claiming vig?

Mafia or town vig, yes.
But not SK.

Then you are saying he is scum claiming vig?

Yeah but NOT SK-claiming-vig!?!?!?!?! Thor is scum can't you see?????

Please explain to me how he can be an SK nd have it make any sense at all.
I'll wait.

Ugh I really think Brains is right here. the OMGL TiP dichotomy may be a false one. Assume, for instance, that MattP is a mafia scavenger (I may say amnesiac from time to time). Let's say he picks the town roleblocker. Scums have two roleblockers. Guaranteed mislynch of both players.

For that case to work it would require him to be scum.
You're voting me.
Is there any other way you see the dichotomy being false?
Because if not, you're basically claiming a Thor/Matt scumteam and that the scumteam would pass on a chance for a redirector...yeah.

[Thor665]

thor if you are town then I really understand why you are so pissy and indignant wrt to anything said from this hydra about your meta. laying that aside you look freakishly paranoid right now so I am going to switch things up a bit and treat you as town. lets set aside our differences and work together for a minute. plz?

Aw gawdz, one of your awkward 'reach out' posts that I will get to field in the middle of your other head screaming over and over that I'm scum without any logical backing to it other than 'Thor didn't die from zombies...also I made up some meta'
This sounds a mix of uncomfortable and annoying to me.

1. tippy said he was blocked. he said this

first

.
2. ogml is counterclaiming him.

The reverse of yesterday, yes.

riddle me this; if scum do have a role blocker, wouldn't they know who they roleblocked? so wouldn't tippy have to have been a total dummy to say he was blocked knowing that scum had blocked ogml and that ogml would cc him?

Agreed.
I have indicated this and agree it is bad play on TiP's part if he is scum. There's a reason I am advocating the possibility of mafia OGML.

tippy has to be town.

Well...he's certainly more likely to be town, yes.

that combined with his play, mara's read and the fact that he lynched mastin for the reasons he did (I don't think tippy has the confidence to bus mastin in the way that he did thinking he could carry the rest of the game off. I know I wouldn't).

I had sort of forgotten the Mastin thing, but I do agree that doesn't look like a bus.

1. majiffy was shot
2. sangres was shot
3. ogml claims to have shot majiffy but not sangres.

Majiffy was *sniped*
Trust was suffocated.

I suppose it's possible that each individual scum has their own kill flavoring or something, but though I agree that shot and sniped are similar enough (also the executed at gunpoint) to suggest they are all kills from the same person/faction it then begs the question of who suffocates? I have advanced a theory about this.

@ ogml

if you did not shoot sangres who did you try to shoot?

I agree with this question and asked him already. That said, maybe he'll answer you because you have teats. Hope springs eternal.

4. because the only way he would know that he was blocked is if he tried to shoot some1 other than sangres.

Unless he knows his kill flavor is suffocation, in which case he's even more obviously scum of some stripe, but, yes, I agree.

either way I think tippy is town town town. willing to lynch ogml.

what do you think

I think OGML is provably not the SK and would like to at least get consensus on that.
At that point the question is whether it is more likely that scum have a double kill mechanic, that we have a yet to be discovered or claimed Vig/SK, or that TiP went for a lulzgambit as scum and continued it further today.

Considering Pere's reactions to OGML both yesterday and today I will admit my preference is to lynch OGML at this moment, but I don't like that everyone is pushing him on an SK case that is definitely not legit, and I should know I created that SK case so that it's being carried through is making me question if maybe I'm wrong about Pere and one of the SK crowd is scum.
I'm also fielding the meta derp from your slot, which pleases me not, and looks bad from any angle and I still can't tell if it is scummy bad or inherent playstyle choice bad, but I feel like the growing split personality thing is very defensive in nature, allowing you to say lots of things while being held accountable for none of them.
I also don't like whichever head (I presume DGB) is pressing the RC case, because that is bad - self confidence and a (reasonably supportable) belief that he looks town = scum? That is out of control. That's a playstyle tell paired with a reasonable stance to take considering that if he isn't the most town looking player in this game currently I'd be at a loss to say who is (maybe TiP...maybe Matt, though there is a fair amount of dirt being sold on both of them) The only dirt I see on Red is that he's aware he's not dirty...ooooh, scumtastic!
And maybe that's a town tell via derp and hard headedness from your slot, but unless you want to be like Titus and claim that somehow there is double roleblocking in the game via Matt being scum, I have no idea what the hell your slot is even doing right now other than trying to ignore and not risk their partner in the obvious 1 v 1 situation we have.

@DGB/Mollie/No Brians - how many roleblockers do you think are currently in the game?
Whichever head is then ignoring the current issue can feel free to then, if their answer is '1 or less' to address the current situation, and if their answer is '2 or more' then I would like them to drop all future cases and just sheep Titus for the rest of the game. Because he is your new gawd.

[Thor665]

And if this is mylo then TIP has a perfectly good reason to claim blocked even knowing I'd probably be counterclaiming.

That is true, but works equally valid from your side if Mafia.

Could you explain TiP's play if he's scum though?
I mean, his first scum call out of the game was Mastin and Elli and no one else.
He then basically hard bussed mastin the rest of the game?

I don't really see it.
It's why I think I'm really being sold on strongman mafia, which would explain Day 1-2 perfectly as far as the kills go.
How am I wrong?

[Thor665]

thor

so you think rc is the towniest looking player here? why is that

You are literally the only one pushing him.
Your case is currently based on how he thinks he looks town.
That's pretty much prima facie for that one.

He does not look very lynchable because there is no scum case or energy connected to him. There is literally at least some hackneyed call on everyone else in the game that can actually be described in a way that isn't intrinsically silly - RC doesn't have that. Now, if you want one *might* be able to debate that as "most sideline/forgettable player...but that's still a pretty bad reason to want to lynch him, especially in the current game state.

I think I could vote literally anyone else in the game and manage to get a sheep to my case except him, and I'm really good at making noisy cases if I want to.

Thor/RC scum team!

BINGO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2B6SjMh_w

Why won't TIP tell us who he tried to investigate last night? Ask yourselves that question.

What's his advantage to not do so?

Obviously I knew coming into this that I was the probably lynch today for counterclaiming TIP's roleblocked claim. Why wouldn't I just let it slide and let everyone keep thinking I killed Sangres? I went from comfortably on everyone's town list to right back at the top of the lynch for what... a 1v1 with the claimed cop? I counterclaimed because its the truth and in the unlikely event we get another day for the town to sort this out after lynching me you'll at least know it was the truth and kill TIP tomorrow.

This half sells me, except I think it's kind of a stretch to suggest you were at the top of everyone's town list. Desp said he was pushing you yesterday. I was pushing you yesterday. Who knows what TiP thinks since he's TiP. Who knows what DGB thinks, because apparently today you're defo SK...?

Also, why do you keep trying to sell lylo here?
There are 9 players alive.
How many scum are you claiming to still be alive with 3 dead and a random kill mechanic in play?

Explaining TIP's play - elli bus was clearly preplanned. mastin bus makes sense because mastin was going down anyway and TIP got himself out of the noose and under the rader until just now with his cop-guilty claim. What has TIP really done since his claim? What did he really do before it? He isn't even volunteering who he is trying to investigate anymore.

Before his claim he was definitely scumhunting though. And he pushed hard on Mastin before Mastin looked to be a dead duck in the water, he was literally antagonistic for him since basically his first post. So if it was a bus, there's no way that was a 'I see him going down slowly in flames' bus That was a 'I'm replacing into this game and will decide to hard bus 2 members of my scumteam right away'.

What's your read on how much Pere is standing up for you?
Like, he's *all* about you, and you seem to think you look like pretty much assured lynch for doing town the solid of this counterclaim, so why do you think he believes you're such obv. town?

Your appeal to "he's not good enough to do that as scum" holds no water at all.

I would agree with that, as I don't find the fakeclaim to be beyond TiP's playskill.
But this feels like a straw man. I know I didn't argue that he wasn't skilled enough to do what he did - who did?

[Thor665]

Why not?

[Thor665]

Like, just walk me through this.
Scum have a roleblocker and the ability to kill you at night.
You say you investigated one of them last night, then tonight they will RB or kill you.
You say you investigated a town player last night then tonight they will RB or kill you.

Just walk me through the logic of why you can't say and how it helps us.

[Thor665]

BECAUSE I MAY OR MAY NOT TRY TO INVESTIGATE THAT SAME PERSON TONIGHT AGAIN
I THOUGHT I SAID THIS
Doesn't it make sense? It doesn't even matter who I tried to investigate
anyway can we massclaim now?

Okay, and tonight you will be roleblocked or killed...so what does it matter?

[Thor665]

Vote: TiP

Yup.

[Thor665]

Vote: TIP

its mass claim time mebbe you missed it

Two points;

1. It's actually lynch scum TiP time.

2. It's not mass claim time.

[Thor665]

+ are you saying definitively that he isn't the SK?

There is no SK.

[Thor665]

Aw man, what's with the TIP votes?

MORE

THOR

VOTES PLEASE!!!

[Thor665]

He caught you voting confirmed town.
That's sort of a big deal last I checked.

[Thor665]

Also, I have literally never lynched wrong when lynching a "cop" who voted for a cleared town.
Never.

[Thor665]

She is still markedly less scummy than Thor, Desp and RC.

[Thor665]

Is he your roleblocker?

[Thor665]

I'm going to translate that as a 'yes'.
You're either tunnel blind even for you, or this is desperation at this point, because the house of cards is coming tumbling down.

[Thor665]

@OGML - after you shoot me, please put DGB on your list next.
Thank you.

[Thor665]

You can't talk sense to scum, Desp.
She is desperate to save this lynch.

[Thor665]

Thor if you flip town I'll reconsider my NBH read but I think they're being obstinate town right now

"

After

you shoot me, please shoot DGB
Thank you."

Derpa.

Thor, What do you think of Desperado?

Town.

Pere, do you think there's a chance scum hid?

[Thor665]

Desp has had a number of poorly thought out pushes, that doesn't make those pushes inherently scummy. If that were true Mollie would never get a town PM.

[Thor665]

Clarify "scum influence"?

[Thor665]

Wow.

[Thor665]

A risk, but a worthwhile one, shame it didn't pan out.
I felt constantly betrayed by my partners in this game

Ah well, still a mostly fun adventure, just stressful.

[Thor665]

Yeah, the mechanics worked out really well and felt, for the most part, balanced.
Flavor was excellent too - I give the whole design two thumbs up.

[Thor665]

Did anyone even talk in the mafia QT besides me

I'm fine with it if the others are. If even one is iffy on releasing it than I support not releasing it.

[Thor665]

The Chess loss was bad, but I sort of feel a combination of town and scum defeated scum in this game.
I'm not sure if I agree with mastin that town was OPed as the zombie kills were pretty gruesomely pro scum on the whole and clearly the herders had limited control at best.
Probably simply with Mafia able to exact powers *and* target kills would make it balanced in anyone's mind I'd like to think.

[Thor665]

I think Mastin's opinion there was colored by the fact that he thought TIP was a legit cop. Without that in the game the power distribution is actually really good, especially with scum being immune from zombie kills unless targeted.

It's hard for a scum team to win when one gets vigged N1, another gets lynched without a fight D2, and a third busses a fourth with a fake cop guilty D4. You and Mastin might have had a chance if TIP just lets himself get lynched.

Maybe, I will say Vig + 2x Pseudo Vig + Ability to bring back a Vig/Pseudo Vig ranked pretty high in my 'what the hell am I supposed to do about this?' universe considering that Night 2 scum were having to debate about which power not to use.
I do think free ability to use the night kill would make it a better balance considering how tight scum's situation is if even one of them is caught early game.
Much less, y'know, three

Other than that I liked all the mechanics.
I'll agree the cop claim was not optimal for us.

[Thor665]

Most definitely. I've never seen a town come together that quickly and that accurately. It's not really surprising that Thor was the only infiltrator of that D1 town block.

[Thor665]

@Ven - I will say that the cop claim was conceptually solid but not well executed given the gamestate and prior postings.

[Thor665]

And "X-shot SK" made me spit out my soda on the spot.

I've been an X-Shot SK.
On this site.
:shrug:
Besides, people were buying, it would have worked too if TiP hadn't voted someone he said was a town clear.

Good shot OGML - we sent the zombies on Thor for the second night. I guess you got there first.

Not really.
Hint: I never hid, ever.

WHO SAID THOR WAS SCUM

Lots of people?

Complain to the scum! They're the ones that strung you up... probably out of FEAR!

Indeed

[Thor665]

Thor, we shouldn't have killed Sangres I knew I hadn't read wrong

We did fine killing Sangres.
The only better option would have been to kill OGML that night.

[Thor665]

Except for the fact that it confirmed OGML and it was a matter of Town deciding who was lying between me and him

It didn't confirm OGML.
Look again at the vote counts up until Pere spotted the error in your voting record.
OGML was dead until then.

I'm more amazed that you guys missed TiP's obvious crumbs once he replaced in. He more or less called Thor a Jailkeeper and Mastin a Herder straight up.

I thought he was calling me a roleblocker there, frankly.
In retrospect it made sense, but I didn't expect the traitor to have role reveal info.

[Thor665]

Besides the first shot, none of our shots was predicated on getting the Traitor - there was no time to waste shots on that.