Secret Alt Mafia – Game over!

[The Jolly Old Man]

VOTE: Drama Llama

for being a llama.

first.

[The Jolly Old Man]

I am older than all of you, and therefore, more talented.

VOTE: Drama Llama

Now Lea my sweet, do not forget that you are still but a young thing in my eyes.

You're account may be older, but I have seen far too much in my time.

[The Jolly Old Man]

darn it, I thought I had.


Oh well, someone do something interesting before I start to sing.

Though I will own Mado and Lea are amusing in their own way.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Now little boy, don't be a brat.

we "muggles" as you called us, have our own little magic. *purse of galleons slips into hands*

and besides you've barely posted this game. So to me you sound like a little silly do you not?

And drama llama, at this little stage it is far to early to accuse scum. Seeing how this is an rvs wagon your on.

[The Jolly Old Man]

UNVOTE: Drama Llama

I do not like the way this wagon seems to be determined to grow.

As much as I'd like to hear more from the Llama, I'm far more interested in sting's reaction to me claiming an RVS wagon there.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Make it easy on yourself
And don't do nothing

As much as I'd like to hear more from the Llama, I'm far more interested in sting's reaction to me claiming an RVS wagon there.

What about it? If it's interesting, why aren't you voting for me?

Because it's merely interesting. Not quite worthy of anything more than maybe the idle FOS. I am just interested in why you consider it bullshit that it is the simple result of the RVS stage. (Though I admit I do not like how it turned into a wagon, I was not as concerned.)

[The Jolly Old Man]

I dislike wagons in RVS stage, and the reason I did not move my vote instantly off of drama llama was for the very reason that I didn't like his reaction to the wagon.

It felt paranoid, more so than normal for a townie who still quite a few votes away from being lynched.

I removed my vote because I did not want to risk the wagon growing to a lynch phase. considering that we've barely had time to gather data.

[The Jolly Old Man]

In my line of work, it always pays to take cautious risks.

But if you insist that I lay down a vote:
VOTE: Sting and his Beard
You are WAY to obsessed with my motivations for unvoting drama llama and not voting anyone else. It's like you wanted me to stay on a mislynch so you could use it for later.

everyone has their own playstyles though.

And if you ever saw me at a party, watch your valuables.

[The Jolly Old Man]

I've seen it happen before in the past (to whoever asked why it would be a concern) I don't wish to risk it again.

My dear, you must realize that I explained myself but the dear boy kept pushing it. OMGUS would have been far more quicker response.

I dislike Shrumz and Mangi's actions and wonder if they are scum attempting as they are to address us as if we are our supposed mains.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Mangi

I want an explanation please.

[The Jolly Old Man]

I like to ruffle feathers. It's working, apparently.

Isn't that just another way to say "I'm acting scummy on purpose"?

When you can justify anything with "I'm doing it on purpose" it sort of defeats the point of scumhunting.

I dislike Shrumz and Mangi's actions and wonder if they are scum attempting as they are to address us as if we are our supposed mains.

Couldn't town try to address people as mains?

All you're saying is "I'm voting mangi because I wonder if they are scum doing what they are doing" when you could just as easily say "I wonder if they are town doing what they are doing".

In fact, isn't it more likely that mangi is town through reading into the posts more?

It's completely ambivalent, and your presentation of it makes no sense.

VOTE: The Jolly Old Man

No. In fact, I find it anti town to be doing such a behavior in this case.

after all, the whole point of doing a game where we are secret alts is to avoid meta connections is it not?

in fact, I believe the mod asked that if we believed ourselves to be discovered to replace out. I don't see a pro town reason to be playing these kind of games in the slightest.

And all Mangi is doing is hindering town in my opinion. There has not be a useful statement made by her.

I see no reason to remove my vote.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Right now I'm happy with my vote, though I could be persuaded to change.
I may do an Iso so that I may review the situation.

[The Jolly Old Man]

JOLLY OLD MAN

-

Null-lean-scum

Spoiler:

Hops off of the DramaLlama wagon once suspicion starts to pile on it,
Calls out Shrumz and Mangi, but puts the vote on Mangi instead of Shrumz, despite Shrumz being far more direct with who he was talking to in reference to alts.
Somewhat critical of other players, although not with the fervor that others have exhibited in this game. Pressure isn't really there from this slot.

Just addressing this portion until I can do my ISO's.

I had no intention of keeping my vote on DramaLlama. The timing may be bad but the fact remains.
Good point. However, to me, Mangi is a repeat offender and did it in multiple posts. Shrumz did it once. Thus Vote goes on Mangi.

I can support a Shrumz lynch however. Will discuss more after I do my ISO's.

[The Jolly Old Man]

ISO's:
Big Government: Liking his processes, Is feeling very town to me. would like to hear more though.

draco malfoy: I think your character is getting in the way of your doing anything of much value besides focus on Shrumz and Lea. Some detail would be nice.

DramaLlama: Dislike first post. Guarantees that there are two scum on an RVS wagon, doesn't explain why or who might it be. Votes with no explination. 75 is meh to me. His response to Lea in 114 is pretty much what I figure from 75. 116: EXPLAIN YOUR VOTES!!! You randomly vote Dream of Eden and yet the most reason you give is when he asks Sting about his demand that everyone be using their vote. I'm leaning scum because while he does critcize some people for decent reasons, I feel like his votes never have explination. Dream of Eden at least has the OMGUS from I think the initial vote from Drama at him.

Dream of Eden: Despise the stupidness of your first post, it's a very clear OMGUS from a clearly WTF vote. Don't like your reaction to Madotsuki. I kind of agree with his question of 87 but at the same time I don't. Mainly because I personally don't like throwing my vote around willy nilly at whomever I think is scum. I want to use my vote when I really want to pressure someone. 129: Not really, you do essentially commit an OMGUS and try to call it a "counter random-vote" Um yes. I'd call that what MD calls it. While part of me wants to say town, I can definitely see him as scum.

Edgar Allan Pro: 31: I'll be checking that. Well close enough, page 6. I'm looking forward through your long post. 149: I agree that DoE is probably scum, I disagree with you on Big Government and Drama Llama. I see where you're coming from on Draco, I'll have to get back on the rest once I've finished my ISO's. I'm saying town. Having finished the read through I find agreement with most of your reads, Though I see more people as town I think. I don't see your second point about Mangi, at all, can you expand more on how he's doing what you claim?

Kamietsu: 45: In response to 39 from me, actually gets a little into my issue with Drama's actions. (as explained above.) Feels town, I want more content though.

Lea: First 3 posts are meh. Gets into an argument about an RVS stage comment. I like 100 as a whole. Dislike comments in 102. Needs more input, otherwise, null.

Madotsuki: I'm sure there's a reason for you speaking in rhyme. I get Edgar's because of his name. I'm going to roll my eyes at this argument starting in 13 and 14. Thank you in 46 for saying that. Very good points. Very interesting points, not sure if I agree personally, you're making it a bigger deal than her to me. Explain why you think my votes are bad. (113) Agree with 145. Leaning town.

Mangi: First two posts meh. 64, meh at the end: NO, completely missing the point of this game. Dislike response to me in 77. I'm presuming most of us are playing this game because who our mains are is SECRET, We're trying different playstyles and different things so we don't Alt slip. Again dislike. 95: dislike, 97: dislike as well. 101: You're names don't feel random. 105: AGAIN!!!! We've explained why we dislike it. I've talked about why it's anti-town and against the spirit of the game. It's not pro-town You aren't doing much actual scum hunting. Even your reasoning for your Madotsuki dislike is weak. 157: THANK GOD!!!! Leaning scum on.

Powerful Diomedes: 43: Agree. 93: Will check if I addressed your question about wagons. OMGUS would require Sting to be voting for me would it not? 135: Same here. I'll say town. Oh and to your conversation about wagons, I always enjoy the sudden serious vote for a comment made that seems scummy.

Ruthless MD: 126:You are boastng about this why?, 128: can't say I disagree. 134: Exactly. I'll give you a town read. Though more content is needed from you.

Shrumz: 86: first post of any note. I dislike it and then his response as well. I can definitely support a lynch on you after reading you. No comments of any worth or towniness. Works very well with Dream of Eden scum or DramaLlama scum.

Sting and his beard: 82: did I handle this? Will check and if not my next post will respond. I can see you as town. Overall feels town, just wish he'd use more words and focus on some of the major things.

Willow Ghost: Needs more content. I don't think there's any town motivation behind his posts. Scummy blighter.


My Town/Scum List:
Town
Kamietsu
Edgar Allan Pro
Madotsuki
Sting and his beard
Big Government
Powerful Diomedes
Ruthless MD

Draco Malfoy
Lea

Dream of Eden
Drama Llama
Willow Ghost
Shrumz
Mangi
Scum

I'll probably do a bit more addressing in my next post towards my thoughts, to keep it short Edgar, you probably have a few too many people who are null-scum or null-town.

[The Jolly Old Man]

IShrumz: 86: first post of any note. I dislike it and then his response as well. I can definitely support a lynch on you after reading you. No comments of any worth or towniness. Works very well with Dream of Eden scum or DramaLlama scum.

you're forgetting posts 42, 55, 106, 117, 119, 122, 154...

lets be honest, you didn't seriously sit down and read my iso, did you?

VOTE: jolly old man

coaster scum

Let's look at the posts you mentioned shall we?

42: Okay, Please explain how this is remotely helpful or pro-town in any fashion. You just say essentially "I'm happy with my vote." No case, no questioning of Drama Llama for information. Nothing.
55: See above, disinterested posting.
Anything after this may have been a post of note. However it also falls under the fact that I say 86 is your first post of any note. Which means that I find actually worth the post. Meaning you did shit. Other than that your comments are either forced or in general pointless.

Lea explain, fully just where does it seem forced or sound forced? Fun fact, I like to mention doing my ISO's when I'm doing them because otherwise people seem to pester me about doing them if I'm showing no signs of doing them when I say I will.

I like how so far most of my critics are either null or scum reads. Seems like I'm on the right track.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Shrumz. I've already explained to you why you are a scummy little being. Your "Help" has been about as forced as you claim my posts to be.

Might I add that I had some dislike for you already for the same reason I voted Mangi.

Speaking of which Mangi. I hate trolls. I hate trolls ESPECIALLY when their trolling represents a threat to the game. So yeah. though your later posts have been better. No, you saying out right it was trolling, not helping my feelings towards you.

As to why I feel he works well with either Dream or Drama as scum (referring to Shrumz) It's partially interaction between them for me. Some how his actions towards both of them stink of slight bussing attempts and distancing.

Speaking of which,

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Dream of Eden
I explain why in more detail in my ISO's.

[The Jolly Old Man]

As to why I feel he works well with either Dream or Drama as scum (referring to Shrumz) It's partially interaction between them for me. Some how his actions towards both of them stink of slight bussing attempts and distancing.

I could figure that much out on my own. Can you not insult my intelligence and explain why you think that

So wait, you want me to explain why I think something when you can see the evidence that brought that conclusion to me? What do you want me to draw you a little map with pretty arrows?
It's plainfully simple, I see the interactions between them, I notice that they have scummy instances regarding him, and vice versa, Logical conclusion? They could be scum together. And because of his actions, I'm not sure whether Shrumz is scum with one or both of them. Do I really need to get into further detail if you claim to see what I said I see?

@Kamietsu: That's part of the problem. His early posts don't seem very town motivated either. Besides he made his first post halfway through the game. First thing he says "OMGUS" disguised as trying to bring back RVS stage. Ummmm... I'm sorry, but please just call an apple an apple.

My reads haven't changed too much... though I think Lea may have moved a little downward in the null stack, and Mangi is now slightly less likely to be scum. I'll have to read through again.

I will definitely accept a lynch of Shrumz, Dream or Drama at the present time. And I definitely won't object to a Mangi vote.

Also @Mangi: How was your trolling of posting the names of players who for all intents and purposes are not in the game pro-town? Why should we believe that it was pro-town.
@Shrumz: Why was your similar action regarding Sting Pro-town?

The players listed as I recall are all strong players. Is it possible that they were trying to ferret out the powerful townies perhaps?

[The Jolly Old Man]

Speaking of which Mangi. I hate trolls. I hate trolls ESPECIALLY when their trolling represents a threat to the game. So yeah. though your later posts have been better. No, you saying out right it was trolling, not helping my feelings towards you.

Hi.
Is there a reason you're still ignoring me? You're doing a horrible job of not letting me coast. How's all that wonderful new content Kamietsu has produced?

Huh. Personally, I don't really see Dream's first post as that scummy, just null for the OMGUS. 130 and 208 don't seem that bad, but I don't see a lot of scummy intent in Dream's earlier posts, especially since there aren't too many of them that aren't one-liners.

I love how you're still ignoring me + taking absolutely no position whatsoever. At least pretend to be town for your scumbuddies' sakes.

I've been ignoring you for a simple reason. Your "quote in quote" issue?

absolutely pointless. Yes he agreed, however the way he agreed seems genuine and not fake. Therefore, I can see him as town and his recent posts have nothing to shake me from it.

However your actions have not. Please explain why you think Kamietsu is scum.

And make a detailed case because I'm not seeing it.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Jolly Old Man

Not seeing the mangi thing. Seeing how it's a secret alt game I'd be surprised that there's not more speculation type discussion, as meta is a big thing with some players.

I am a player who loves meta, and I'd be using it right now if I didn't want to keep my alt secret.
In case you didn't notice, there is a RULE in this game about replacing out if you believe your alt is compromised.

Shrumz. I've already explained to you why you are a scummy little being. Your "Help" has been about as forced as you claim my posts to be.

Might I add that I had some dislike for you already for the same reason I voted Mangi.

and ive explained why your reads suck and are fake

Inadaquately.

So wait, you want me to explain why I think something when you can see the evidence that brought that conclusion to me? What do you want me to draw you a little map with pretty arrows?
It's plainfully simple, I see the interactions between them, I notice that they have scummy instances regarding him, and vice versa, Logical conclusion? They could be scum together. And because of his actions, I'm not sure whether Shrumz is scum with one or both of them. Do I really need to get into further detail if you claim to see what I said I see?

this is scum trying to harass away being asked questions they dont have answers to

No, I do answer him. It's the whole section after I talk about the pretty arrows.

@Shrumz: Why was your similar action regarding Sting Pro-town?

which action, calling him thor? i never said it was; but it isn't anti-town either.

You are claiming Magni's calling names out was pro-town. Thus your action regarding calling sting Thor in your mind would be equally pro-town.
However, It's only pro-town if Sting was scum. If Sting is Town (which I believe as memory serves.) It's anti town. Same with the calling out of main account names by Mangi. If Mangi's right and those players are in the game, and someone puts it together and figures out each one. Hell, I bet if I really wanted to I could try and guess at who the main Mangi guessed was associated with which account. Thus comprimising the account and forcing a replace, and why? because someone decided to troll. This is why I hate trolls and trolling. This is why Mangi is scummy from her entrance.

Jolly Old Man

Not seeing the mangi thing. Seeing how it's a secret alt game I'd be surprised that there's not more speculation type discussion, as meta is a big thing with some players.

youre missing the "vote:" before the bolded

try again

I believe she just bolded to make sure I saw it.

I've been ignoring you for a simple reason. Your "quote in quote" issue?

absolutely pointless. Yes he agreed, however the way he agreed seems genuine and not fake. Therefore, I can see him as town and his recent posts have nothing to shake me from it.

However your actions have not. Please explain why you think Kamietsu is scum.

And make a detailed case because I'm not seeing it.

Hilariously enough, I don't know what the quote in quote issue is even while ISOing myself, so either there's a breakdown communication or a case of some bad reading going on. Why does his agreement seem genuine? Is it because he doesn't see the motivation behind joining an RVS wagon? Is it because he thinks that things should be explained, or maybe because he used the word "confusing"? You don't seem like the type of guy to be happy with calling someone town because "gut".

I think Kamietsu is scum because of his complete lack of doing anything even mildly interesting this game because it shows that he has absolutely no interest in scumhunting whatsoever. The only thing he's done that even so much as suggests that maybe Kamietsu gives the tiniest shit about scumhunting is his vote on Edgar Allen Pro, which was literally a pressure vote that he took off with the smallest sign of Edgar doing anything, and did not make an effort to find a new suspect when his old suspect became a bad option. The fact that he's responded to my question of him two times (not once, but twice) but never even made an attempt to figure out my motivation behind attacking him tells me that hey, he's probably scum. I could see you calling him null because he's not posting much, but you're either refusing to see his scumminess because he's your partner or because you've confbiased me because I'm actually making you back up your shit.

Kamietsu: 45: In response to 39 from me, actually gets a little into my issue with Drama's actions. (as explained above.) Feels town, I want more content though.

This townread is also weird.
All he did there was agree with someone else.

This is the issue that I was addressing in my post to you. And even then, I'll have to check, but I don't think he was actually agreeing with anyone in particular in that post. I was agreeing with what he said.
Now, keep in mind, I still have to read his more recent posts and that may change my read. However at the time of my last few posts. I saw no reason to change my town read on him. But this brings up a good question that I believe Madotsuki just brought up.

Why would you vote me over Dream if Dreams is showing the exact same behavior as Kamietsu. Because I don't see an indignant townie from him. I think you are using confirmation bias towards Kam.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Shrumz, I'd love to hear an explanation for 289 right now.

I like the death poem

I'm going to look over my previous ISO and see if Dream's death actually changes my reads at all.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Let's see, first I'm going to say this.

So just going off of yesterday, my reads aren't majorily affected by Dream's death.

Now going off of the actions today, I find Big Government going more null, for his acting like Edgar didn't vote for Ruthless when he did

Shrumz and Mangi are still scummy as all get out as is Drama.

VOTE: Shrumz

Ruthless I'm still liking as town based on reactions.

Everyone else is about the same as they were day one.

And for those wondering about the oddities in my posts... All will be revealed at the end of the game.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Now going off of the actions today, I find Big Government going more null, for his acting like Edgar didn't vote for Ruthless when he did

What is this? Why would that be a scumtell? The fact you added that smiley indicates even you don't think it's scummy.

UNVOTE: LeaVOTE: The Jolly Old Man

Wouldn't be surprised if Ruthless is a partner.

Lea I still want to hear a real second scumread from you.

Not necessarily a scum tell. But something I have difficulty believing coming from town.

I can support a Drama lynch or maybe a Lea lynch. But ideally a Shrumz lynch.

But honestly I could have been using the smiley to be expressing my disbelief that you didn't notice that. Honestly.

[The Jolly Old Man]

I really don't see the case against me or how Shrumz is town. I can see the logic behind some of Sting's comments and may look into them further.

Also Big Government: I will not say that I am a perfect saint... But I am definitely not as black as some people would paint.

Will be Reviewing the situation.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Jolly Old Man why didn't you answer my first question in 341?

I blanked on it. I was intending to address it but forgot. I will respond to that next post.

I really don't see the case against me or how Shrumz is town. I can see the logic behind some of Sting's comments and may look into them further.

1) Your giant wall was fluffy and very surface level; it's the sort of thing scum write to appear engaged without actually providing analysis.

2) Shrumz is concise and to the point. While he doesn't provide complete transparency into his thought process, he does provide enough backing to his positions to understand it. He's also been engaging with everyone who's engaged him, and he's moved the game forward.

You're description of Shrumz reminds me of many scum I've played against. In fact, even a few games where I was scum. I am sorry to say but your argument for scum me could equally be lazy town trying not to seem too much like his main. I refer you to my last post, it is all too true.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Not necessarily a scum tell. But something I have

difficulty

believing coming from town.

How is something you can't believe coming from town not a scumtell? Why do you have a hard time believing it coming from town?

But honestly I could have been using the smiley to be expressing my disbelief that you didn't notice that. Honestly.

Scout's honor?

Bolded is the key word you seemed to have overlooked. I did not say I can't. I said I had a difficult or hard time believing it coming from town. Can you give me an honest explanation for why you would post something to seem one way but were paying enough attention to that you should have known Edgar's vote was on Ruthless. Now of course, it could have been a typo and you meant to say voting (reading the post in question again.) However, taken at face value. It seems at best null. Not town, not scum, third party along the lines of Survivor most likely.

When I posted 40, I did not think of the aspect I had just claimed. It made no sense for town you to make an argument that was easily contradicted. It wasn't even like Edgar's vote was on the page before your post. The post in question is the first post on page 13. Edgar's vote is at the bottom of page 12. Why would town try to do a deliberate misrep like that. Scum I can see trying it to look town. Survivor I can see pulling something like this in an attempt to seem pro-town when they actually don't care.

(I'm using narrow term for scum in this case. Some would throw third party in as scum in this case I'm not.)


Whatever honor may be held amongst thieves to your second question.

[The Jolly Old Man]

You're description of Shrumz reminds me of many scum I've played against. In fact, even a few games where I was scum. I am sorry to say but your argument for scum me could equally be lazy town trying not to seem too much like his main. I refer you to my last post, it is all too true.

Why are you letting your content suffer for a "style change," then?

Also, why haven't you claimed, you're at L-1.

Because I haven't been keeping track of votes on me and no one announced I was at L-1 until just now. Protocol you know.

I'm vanilla town.

And too answer your question, because when I took this Alt on I wanted to try to stay true to the character that I represent while behaving according to my alignment as much as possible.

Which kind of sucks since I could also be called "The Merry Old Gentleman" or "The Merry Old Jew" Dickens wrote about me and I've quoted a song from the musical he's in. Multiple times.

And also, I will confess, I've been toning down the Pbpanalysis of my ISO's even on my main. So what you are left with are basic summaries with no thoughts. After all, posting PbpAnalysis ISO's has only resulted in my lynch.

LEA. SECOND SCUMREAD. NOW.

However, taken at face value. It seems at best null. Not town, not scum, third party along the lines of Survivor most likely.

Then why did it change your read on me? Lol survivor.

Can you give me an honest explanation for why you would post something to seem one way but were paying enough attention to that you should have known Edgar's vote was on Ruthless.

I'm baffled about it as well. I think what happened is I actually missed that the post contained a vote. Strange as that is.

P.S. just over 2 days til deadline.

It changed my read because initially I read it as scummier and then as later reads went I changed my opinion on futher consideration.

Though I do not like Lea's attitude. She seems to wishy washy on the subject.

And based off of the last lynch I'd like to know why people think that I am the best suspect from that pool? And don't give me my actions since it doesn't match up with what happened with Dream's vote count. Analysis is everything. If I'm scum why did I make the nk choice I presumably made for instance?

[The Jolly Old Man]

Just so you all are aware, Shrumz is now at L-1.

The next vote is a hammer.

[The Jolly Old Man]

So Shrumz was scum...

Lea and Drama I guess are both good lynch candidates. I think I'm going to go take a look at my reads from the last couple of days and see if there's anything that stands out to me as worth following. Then it'll be to the ISO's again.

[The Jolly Old Man]

right now it feels like the people I should prioritize ISOing are Draco, and Lea.

I'm afraid I need a case regarding Big Government as I don't recall one from Draco when he made his vote.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Why do you think Lea is town mangi? Why is Edgar scum? Especially with one with information that we know.

Now to get to work on those ISO's.

[The Jolly Old Man]

I don't get your Edgar read...

Lea perhaps. I honestly can't really see a strong case for either her or draco personally (Yes I did finish my ISO's on them.) skimmed Big Government's as well and didn't see anything too odd. I can see a Drama scum though...


Draco:
RVS.
Post 37: Asks for more detail (I think)
53: Does actually ask some questions but could be veiled to much behind rping... couldn't you at least have given malfoy proper puncutation and capitalization?
72: I want more detail on this statement about Lea.
185: Good question, dislike a couple of the posts before it (about me and in reaction to ISO list)
As entertaining as your roleplay is... it's also pretty fluffy.
197: And this is relavant why?
I see very little actual casing against draco regarding Lea. Almost as if he's targeting her for having a "Granger" like appearance Can we get some actual content as too why she's scum?

Draco: some good content, I'd love an actual case written where I can actually see it past the Malfoy snarkiness. What's the reason behind the vote in 420?

Lea:
Takes until post 100 to say anything of real content. However your two points seem to contradict each other since you say in response to 97: "Isn't that another way to say 'I'm acting scummy on purpose'" and then you address me for essentially calling out his behavior as scummy. Saying that it could easily come from town... Uh... weren't you just saying his behavior was scummy?
Defensive, not really doing much regarding to the game.
How is draco's more entertaining than the poetry?
164/165: How does that make sense? Have you been playing the same game as us? Or did you forget you had your vote on me (and hadn't unvoted) so you had to justify keeping your vote all of the sudden.
403: Pretty different from the rest of your posts. Defensive, but at least you're doing something of worth besides just making fluff comments and openly sheeping.
429: Actually yours was only the alternative to shrumz in regards to shrumz being an alternative to (I think it was me.) So it is in theory possible that you were bussing shrumz .

Some good content but not a whole lot. I'm really not seeing a case against her though so there is that. Both seem decent as far as a lynch goes.

[The Jolly Old Man]

my father knows people at the ministry and they shouldn't be trusted

i quoted where big government was lining up lynches

I don't recall seeing it. However I'm far more interested in actually seeing a case from you on both players. why are they scummy. And cut the malfoy bit just enough where I can actually see the case.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Did I say they were town? I'm not seeing a case for them being town either. At best I'm seeing them as null. So if Someone could give me why they see those two as scum, (which I have asked for and I don't think I've recieved... (I check Draco, I know I haven't really seen one on Lea) that would help. I'm okay with their lynch because they could go either way for me.

Right now the case for Malfoy scum seems to be his lack of content over roleplay

And I have no idea what the Lea case is. Which makes me like Malfoy less because he's been the biggest critic and hasn't ever explained why he felt Lea was scum.

I'd have to read Ruthless again to get a read on them. Also I may reread Drama Llama as I'm not a hundred percent sure he's not scum with Shrumz.

And the neighborhood claim I just ignored. Mainly because neighbors to me means that the neighbor could be scum or town. (never actually played a game with a neighbor that I recall... I think we ended up lynching the only one I played with.)

[The Jolly Old Man]

@ Mangi: Was 458 at Powerful Diomedes?

I DO want to hear a case against Lea.

At the Drama Llama/Ruthless MD discussion that just happened:
I interpreted Ruthless's comment as meaning that Draco is making votes and doing his roleplay, but there's no scumhunting behind his roleplay.

Something that I can say Madosuki was trying to do beneath the poems.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Hello Squirrel Girl,

Seeing as I still need to read Ruthless to understand the case against her. I would argue that Draco is the better choice of those two.

Still want to see SOMEONE give a Lea case. Preferably Draco or Poweful Diomedes.

So yeah, that's where I stand.

[The Jolly Old Man]

m looking forward to your magnificent argument for why im scum considering you havent said jack shit about me all game except "this really null thing might change when one of you (still unflipped players) flips"

Two things are you, one is not you.

1. Transferring an RVS vote into a serious vote. I've seen this from scum more often than from town. And when it happens, I look at the reason.
2. You said the reason you did so was a bad Llama reaction. I'm supposing that this comes from the following 2 posts, which where the only Llama posts.

I can almost guarantee that there are at least two scum on my wagon.
I fail to see why I have such a following.

VOTE: Dream of Eden

And the reaction you are referring to has to be to having 4 votes on him.

So, taking that, it's actually, in my opinion, a fairly good reaction. And if not, it's definitely more on the null side, since there is a distinct lack of over-reaction or flailing. But, it was of such weight, to you, that your RVS vote became serious.

That was my first niggling that you might be scum.

The part you have no control over is the various town-posting the rest of the players are doing. Some weak, some strong, but there placement there along with the abovementioned has dropped you into a scum-read. The last thing that keeps you barely above the line is you activity. You post frequently, and that I find is usually NOT a scumtell.

Not seeing the Ruthless case. Despite some bouts of inactivity (not alignment telling.) Ruthless has been pretty pro-town in their mindset I think.

Ruthless, how is Drama's reaction good? Keep in mind, Drama gave no reason behind why there had to be at least two scum on his wagon (did he ever?) and then in his very next post (which is right after the former post) votes for someone not on his wagon.

Other than that you seem very town so this is the only thing that gives me pause... Please explain this phenomenon more.

So yeah, If the people going after Ruthless could give me a more explained case, I don't see why she should be voted.

VOTE: draco malfoy
IF Powerful Diomedes is telling the truth about this neighborhood QT. That brings up the question: Why has draco not been sharing these posts and views and instead pretty much done Roleplay Malfoy and make votes with no signs of actual scumhunting?

If I recall correctly draco should be at L-1 at this point in time.

I doubt I could be persuaded to move to a Ruthless lynch.
If I was given a very good case I could be swayed to Lea.
Still not sure if Drama is town or not so I could accept that lynch as well.

[The Jolly Old Man]

And I have no idea what the Lea case is.

See my iso.

Jolly Old Man why are you so adamant about being given a Lea case when that wagon is dead?

Because every day her being scum has been brought up, and every day I'm always trying to figure out what the exact case against her is. Yes it can be found by looking at your ISO but one of it's biggest proponents is also one of the leading wagons, Also the one with the least visible scumhunting so I would think it imperative to have him offer up a case that he so proponents no?
Hell, I want a case from him on you too. Just so that I can actually see him doing actual scum hunting work. (I'll get to his interaction with Squirrel Girl as well.)

I am satisfied that draco malfoy is town.

VOTE: mangi

Please explain both why you think draco malfoy is town now, and why your next vote was mangi please.

you're not asking me about the game you're asking me to scumhunt myself

Actually I thought I was asking you what the case on you was. You're saying that's a question that should never be answered by the person the case is on?

if you wanted to know about the game you would read it yourself it's only 20 pages even goyle can read that much

I am reading it. Just slower than Goyle.

@Stimpson - I think Magni is town, what's the scum case on him? Also, what is/was the case on Draco?

I can answer the case on Draco thing for you:
Too much Roleplay, too little scumhunting or case providing for his votes.

That's pretty much the case against Draco. Also good question to draco.

I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts about the cases against you.

Because as I've laid out, You're doing too much roleplay, not enough scumhunting or case providing.

Though considering your name I shouldn't be too surprised. If Draco Malfoy were to play a game of mafia he'd be unable to make a case against anyone without ending up incriminating himself or failing at his goal. I mean, look at first and third year. Draco's never been a success at anything.

Basically Malfoy, Do some actual scumhunting, show us it, cut the roleplay crap enough to actually get shit done (ie. Your case be understood.) or I swear I'll call in Sykes on you. Just to have the pleasure of seeing your pretty boy face beat in then strangled. Show me an actual case from you against your scum reads. That's what we bloody want.

[The Jolly Old Man]

you're not asking me about the game you're asking me to scumhunt myself

Actually I thought I was asking you what the case on you was. You're saying that's a question that should never be answered by the person the case is on?

if you wanted to know about the game you would read it yourself it's only 20 pages even goyle can read that much

I am reading it. Just slower than Goyle.

@Stimpson - I think Magni is town, what's the scum case on him? Also, what is/was the case on Draco?

why are you obsessed with cases it's all you talk about

Because cases help people get lynched. Something you don't seem to realize since you still haven't given us one. Also no response to my comments in 504? None whatsoever?

Also @ Squirrel girl, explain your town read on draco. I'm not seeing it and I've read through his ISO a couple of times now. I could argue a null read on him. But even then I don't think I could pull a town read on him.

If people would post more often than once every 32 hours I don't think it would be a problem. Stimpson has expressed interest in the wagon, I think Jolly did as well. So that's three votes, which lready catapults it into being a major player wagon of the day.

When did I express an interest in a Edgar wagon? I do not recall doing so.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Also @ Squirrel girl, explain your town read on draco. I'm not seeing it and I've read through his ISO a couple of times now. I could argue a null read on him. But even then I don't think I could pull a town read on him.

I provided a link to the exact post and asked you to read it and tell me if you still thought he looked like a scumbuddy to Shrumz. Did you read it, and if so why are you not sold by it?

When did I express an interest in a Edgar wagon? I do not recall doing so.

I will admit maybe I am remembering wrong, I did read twenty pages in about two days. That said, do you have interest in an Edgar wagon over a Draco wagon, or do you expect Draco to be more likely to flip scum?

Yeah, Unfortunately, one post doesn't excuse the rest of his ISO and I seem to recall him changing his tune (Actually the post you linked is draco asking Shrumz why he changed his vote... Doesn't sound like a town question to a scum neccisarily) I'm not sold on it because of his low content to post ratio.

Did I say they were town? I'm not seeing a case for them being town either. At best I'm seeing them as null. So if Someone could give me why they see those two as scum, (which I have asked for and I don't think I've recieved... (I check Draco, I know I haven't really seen one on Lea) that would help. I'm okay with their lynch because they could go either way for me.

The way you wrote the summaries made it feel like you should be townreading them.

How so?

Can you give an example of "solid" posting in the QT? Also, any indication of why his in-thread play sucks?

We haven't had too many posts, but he's been more clear with his reads and RPing less in the QT.

And so? All we have is your word that this is so. GIVE US PROOF!!!!

Who gives a crap if he's being more clear with his Reads in QT and RPing less. It doesn't make him town, It doesn't make him scum either but right now, I want to know why you think he's town and I want to know why his actions are protown if he's denying town analysis in favor of roleplay.

Dio do you trust Draco?

Somewhat. He's a moderate townread for me, and his reads line up fairly closely with my own.

What makes him a town read? Even a moderate one.

Too much Roleplay, too little scumhunting or case providing for his votes.

What do you think of Draco's posts on page 20

Pretty much the same as what I said in 504. Not only that he's dodging questions or avoiding them.
Honestly, If he's scumhunting. It's so far buried under the roleplay it might as well be worthless. Seriously, right now, he's at about the same level as shrumz in helpfulness to town as far as I can see. Add the dodging/avoiding questions and I just am not leaning town for him.

VOTE: Edgar Glad to see other people are coming around to this.

I want a case on Edgar. And a decent one.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Yeah, Unfortunately, one post doesn't excuse the rest of his ISO and I seem to recall him changing his tune (Actually the post you linked is draco asking Shrumz why he changed his vote... Doesn't sound like a town question to a scum neccisarily) I'm not sold on it because of his low content to post ratio.

He wasn't asking him why he changed his vote, he was snidely attacking and cutting Shrumz down. If Shrumz had flipped town I'd consider that post scummy because it was an attack that advanced nothing and went nowhere except to weaken perception of Shrumz and generically advance the idea he's scummy. I will agree Draco changed his tune for no reason to defend Shrumz later, but if he's the type of scum who would desperate defend a partner I don't think he'd make that sort of attack post. Does that make sense for why i think it's a town tell? I don't want to debate the question of how useful Draco has been, that's a losing argument, but I do think it's valid to suggest that he might be useless town as opposed to intentionally useless scum. It's not like this game lacks players who are underperforming and kind of generically helping scum by doing so.

Let's look at the post in question and let me show you how I interpret his post.

i think its too early for that to be the primary motivator for a serious wagon

keeping my vote on the badreactionllama

that squib is a fine place for a vote no one asked you to take it off why do you feel so defensive of it

Llama is a good vote, no one asked you to remove it, why are you so defensive of your decision?

That's pretty much what he said once you try to remove the RP from it.
How is that town motivated? It looks like it could come from town. But it could just as easily come from scum. It's not even really an attack post, I've made posts like that in both alignments. I can argue a null read for him. But a town read is out of the question for me on him. You're own arguments for it should by rights argue null.

Squirrel Girl why do you prefer voting Edgar to voting me?

Because there is more clear support for getting Edgar lynched than you. Would you like to vote Edgar?

VOTE: Edgar Glad to see other people are coming around to this.

I want a case on Edgar. And a decent one.

What I said to Powerful Diomedes applies to you too Squirrel Girl.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Squirrel's confuses me, since she hasn't articulated it but wants to see a case for me.

She did, but just barely and it felt flimsy... I'm the one whose been asking for cases on all of the major wagons.

How is that town motivated? It looks like it could come from town. But it could just as easily come from scum. It's not even really an attack post, I've made posts like that in both alignments. I can argue a null read for him. But a town read is out of the question for me on him. You're own arguments for it should by rights argue null.

The point to me is that it is a communication with a scum partner if you believe Draco to be scum. So we have a scum partner complaining about his buddy being overdefensive - and just tossing that accusation out into the aether for all to see. I don't think that's a likely scum/scum interaction unless the goal was to buss the partner, but there is no apparent effort for bussing. Also, even if you think that the best it shows is a null take on Draco, then that is still a good reason not to lynch him because your entire case on him is a null read.

Key words, AT BEST and even then, that's only one item on his overall case. His overall case is similar to the case against Shrumz. (At Least my case against shrumz) Little content, Too much roleplay. Unwillingness to provide more content. For me his overall case makes him at BEST null scum. For you, You put him as town which is absolutely ridiculous. I said I can argue... NOT that's my read on him or that I feel that it's stretching things.

What I said to Powerful Diomedes applies to you too Squirrel Girl.

I want to lynch Edgar because of PoE and also I find his interactions with Shrumz to be consistant with a scumbuddy interaction. Mostly it is just elimination of people I don't want to lynch paired with a gut vibe. What's your read on Edgar?

That's your case? Why not Drama? He and Shrumz had interactions far more scumbuddy consistant.
Last I seriously looked at Edgar, I had him as town. His reads list matched mine to an extent and I could see his thought processes in most cases.

And so? All we have is your word that this is so. GIVE US PROOF!!!!

Who gives a crap if he's being more clear with his Reads in QT and RPing less. It doesn't make him town, It doesn't make him scum either but right now, I want to know why you think he's town and I want to know why his actions are protown if he's denying town analysis in favor of roleplay.

1) Quoting shit directly from QTs is usually grounds for a modkill.

2) I think he's town because his reads align with mine in a way where I can see that his trajectory is similar to mine. Since I know that my reads are coming from a town place, that makes it seem like his are too. And no, it doesn't look like buddying.

You can Paraphrase can you not?

Again everything you are saying relies on the fallacy that people believe you to be town. We don't! And so far your entire case relies on US believing you on info that WE haven't seen and haven't heard.

AGAIN I REPEAT: HOW IS DRACO'S BEHAVIOR

IN THREAD

INDICATIVE OF HIM BEING TOWN? WHY SHOULD WE TRUST YOUR ASSERTIONS WITHOUT ANY PROOF OF ANY KIND? HE'S BEEN ABSOLUTELY UNWILLING TO PROVIDE AFTER ALL?

I want a case on Edgar. And a decent one.

1) Didn't like his initial reads list. I've already talked about this. His reasoning behind his reads and his trajectories were weak/misaligned in ways that made him look inconsistent, like he didn't know what he was trying to fake with his reads.

2) The play surrounding shrumz. He was going after shrumz way too aggressively way too early on stuff that wasn't as scummy as he was making it out to be. This looks like a bus to me, since bussers are prone to doing this.

3) Read on Sting slot was terrible, and I don't see town messing up that read.

4) Today he's done nothing but thrown around votes to see what sticks. It's like he's trying to ride out towncred he should have gotten for pushing a scum-lynch through.

I'll look over his ISO later. But right now I'm calling baloney on yours. Though points for being more articulate than Squirrel girl.


Edgar's hammer does look a little funny but considering how close we are to deadline and the average pace of this game... I can't say I blame him.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Key words, AT BEST and even then, that's only one item on his overall case. His overall case is similar to the case against Shrumz.

Yeah, but if he's 'not partner' than nothing else matters unless you think there is a scum faction other than Werewolf.

Unfortunately for you, I never said he couldn't be his partner or agreed with you. Only that at best that one post (compared to everything else) which could in theory move him to null scum. And even then, I wouldn't be saying that post clears him of being partners with Shrumz. I have seen scum treat scum in a similar fashion.

Last I seriously looked at Edgar, I had him as town. His reads list matched mine to an extent and I could see his thought processes in most cases.

I don't like the way he interacted with Shrumz. Look at Day 1 and his vote moves after what he said about Shrumz, and even on Day 2 he feels more accidentally trapped on the wagon rather than wanting the wagon.

I'll take a look at that. Right now I'm still unconvinced.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Hooooh boy... I need to refresh on my weak doctor stuff but wouldn't it mean that Stimpson targeted Powerful Diomedes?


However that may be my mind just going random... Not sure about the Ruthless read but I can agree with the Lea one.

[The Jolly Old Man]

I'll double check that information, but for right now, let me take your word on it.

VOTE: Powerful Diomedes

[The Jolly Old Man]

Oh god, this game... this game...

I enjoyed it. Perhaps the scum/town balance was a bit off. And it probably lies in the Weak Doctor...

But yeah, I actually thought scum was going to win many times during the game. So I'm pleasantly surprised with the win.

Also I should probably give my guesses as to whom Mangi was addressing with their calling out of names.

[The Jolly Old Man]

Oooh makes it even more fun then.

Also, Dead QT made me LOL...

And no, I can't guess who Nobody Special is...

[The Jolly Old Man]

The Acting Method = The Jolly Old Man

I think the Account's name and avatar would make more sense if I called myself "The Merry old Gentleman"