Red Wine Mafia: Game Over

[EspeciallyTheLies]

hi

[EspeciallyTheLies]

jsut so you kno.

i'm drunk tonigh and not reding tonight.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Reading up now. As site access allows. I should be finished sometime tonight.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UNVOTE:

Also, I should note, that I was not aware I was in this game until this morning. You should all be disappointed that the mod took advantage of my drunkenness last night.

Shame on you, Myko. Shame. On. You.

<3

[EspeciallyTheLies]

same thing

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh good. I was wondering when you were going to get to that.

About half done reading. VCA is showing some interesting things I will share when I finish.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hi Ceph. Yes. VCA on D1. A quick snippet:

Early, pjo got flak, for good reasons, but it became clear to me he was lynchbait and more than likely town. Chamber, ABR, and mindgamer (now BBmolla), all plopped down votes without much conviction. Mindgamer disappeared, to be replaced. What does BB do? He switches to the largest wagon, Espeonage, who, incidentally, is probably my strongest town read.

ABR switched from lynchbait pjo, to more lynchbait inactive mindgamer, to growing wagon esp (my strongest town read). This is scum voting at it's finest.

Which reminds me - VOTE: ABR

Then we have chamber, who has done literally fuck all.

So yes, VCA is very valuable on D1, considering we have no other information and words are meaningless in a game of lies.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh yeah, and BB's latest fad vote for Chamber really doesn't help my confidence in the slot.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

With Chamber's lack of content, while a scum read, he is the lynch with the least information. You hopping on there after I jab at him for blatantly trolling is icky.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I mean, why has it taken you this long to vote him when he was being obviously unhelpful and throwing that in everyone's faces on page 3 and since?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Point being, why did it take me saying something about it to call you to action on him?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Point being, why did it take me saying something about it to call you to action on him?

Why would you assume that you were the trigger? that seems pretty self centered. Its more likely that I was the trigger.

lol... when your ISO is full of any number of triggers he could have used to land a vote on you and he didn't, I'm going to assume it is the new influence, and not the old.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

nooo myko... i am voting ABR.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yeah so,

Town reads: Espeonage, pjo
Probably town: ceph, ffery, tso, katsuki, cabd
Need sorting: empire, llama, projectmatt
Could be scum if one of below is not: tammy
Scum reads: ABR, chamber, probably BBmolla

Next step is comparing some other ISOs, particularly my nulls. I'll be honest and tell you I probably wont get to that tonight. In the meantime though:

Empire (or whoever replaces him), Tammy, Pmatt:

Quick recap on your scum read on espeonage, please.

TSO:

what are you doing? Is this like some revenge thing or what.. why are you voting Katsuki? If not Katsuki, where would you put your vote?

Everyone else, thoughts on ABR and BBmolla.

Now I'm going to go get drunk and not be back for a bit. <3

[EspeciallyTheLies]

*sigh* Tammy... condense. Please.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You're responding to things from pages and pages ago. It would be more helpful to hear your conclusions.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You're responding to things from pages and pages ago. It would be more helpful to hear your conclusions.

I should also add, responding to things that are either no longer relevant or have since changed. If you give us your conclusions when you are finished reading, we can ask for clarification on things that need clarification, which will result in a better idea of where you're coming from and possibly give us better information that can be easily processed.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There's no need to be combative. I was asking if you wouldn't mind giving us your conclusions after your re-read, since your post by post follow-ups are hard to follow.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm not the one telling you what you're doing is "stupid". It's a courtesy to the rest of the players. It was simply a request to which you responded with unnecessary hostility and insults. Whether you choose to show that courtesy is up to you entirely. That is all.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

TSO get your shit together. <3 Tell me what you think your vote on pmatt is doing?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

His voting patterns should be concrete proof enough.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do I

have

to read the last 32 pages?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Redwiiiine. Soon. Cabd will get his wish.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

sneaky way for mykonian to skip the normal queue line?

As ffery mentioned i have some Carmel Whiskey shots lined up for this evening as well, so I suppose we'll have some fun discussion this evening.

I look forward to it. I have some things I wouldn't mind going over with you.

p-edit: okie dokie natiroshi. When you finish your full read, let me know how you feel about it at that point.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The thing is, your play is exactly like Dot:A. So you're scum. Simple, really.

TSO stop being stupid.

I have no idea on why this ABR wagon exists. It seems really lazy.

PEDITS: I'll get to them.

Then you aren't reading between the lies.

How are you townreading Espeonage EtL?

Genuine posts that seem to have the intention of getting to the bottom of people's reads and statements. Lots of good questions, good pushes. He also didn't hop on the easy, obvlynchbait wagons. Like ABR.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

We're in agreement that ABR is lynchbait though.

No. ABR is scum. He's about the only one here, besides Espeonage, I'm practically certain of. When pjo was catching heat, he slipped onto that wagon. When it died and people were pressuring mindgamer (now BBmolla), he did the same thing. When that got replaced and the Espeonage wagon was growing, there he is again. And I can almost guarantee that wagon is scum driven. The first two didn't need to be. This one is. If I'm wrong about Esp, I will stfu for the rest of the game. But I'm like 99% Esp is town.

I'm saying that Espeonage didn't jump at the chance to lynch pjo or mindgamer when the wagon was gathering steam.

Like ABR did.

p-edit: no, ceph. nat just misunderstood me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And ABR is like the only one who was on all of them, that I had no town tells from.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Did you see my point to Cabd that it seems like really poor scum tactics for ABR to make no real effort to address/dispel his wagon? Doesn't make for good town tactics either. I don't know what to make of it.

I've seen him as town. He screams a lot more about his own lynch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

In all, he fits the profile of "scum-approved mislynch to a T".

I disagree. Your insistence on this is worrying me, nat.

p-edit: sure ffery, meta queen, I will see what I can find. But give me a bit as I'm finishing working/starting drinking.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That wasn't meant to be derisive at all btw lol... utmost respect in that moniker.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If ABR flips town, I would be surprised. But if he does, then I'll reevaluate based on that new info. If he flips scum, then I'm happy and will continue to use the method I used to find him in the first place.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

He's not pushing it hard, nat. He's not doing anything. I have no idea what TSO is doing. I'm not concerned with him at the moment right now though. I wanna lynch scumABR.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Well... shit cabd. I missed all the fun. Because I was asleep you crazy fool. <3

Tammy - about BB's vote on ABR? I am convinced ABR is scum. Even if he's sitting back and not doing much, the fact of the matter is that his votes give him away. What he says makes little difference when the actions don't back them up. So with that, I have a scumlean on BB, as well as you, so it could be bussing, and I'd be fine with that.

My read on BB is not as solid as ABR though, and considering he is a replacement for an inactive person, his slot is not as easily read. I'd like to interact with him some but I haven't seen him around since that one post of his.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Had a very busy Sunday, will need to catch up after work.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I agree that is a town-driven wagon. Jury is still out on BBmolla. I wish I was coherently around when he returned to the thread.

TSO, jsyk.... the only reason I'm not gunning for your useless butt is because I am very certain on ABR. You have not escaped my radar.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

In the "beacons of towniness" statement, sure. Doesn't mean they are any less town reads of mine.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

HI BB.

Yes. I do hold you to a higher standard.

You whomped so-townie bulbascum in my first ever Newbie.

Can you give a readslist I may question you about right now?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Getting town-you motivated or scum-you in a corner. Both results can be achieved by poking at you. Chamber is on my scum list and he will be tomorrow's meal, don't you worry. Pjo is obvious lynchbait but his play is solid town. He has not "done nothing", contrary to your statement. He has at least picked a decent wagon. You voting people who are not priority right now does not help town.

Re: ABR, again, it is

not his words

. It is his

voting pattern

that might as well be a scum claim.

And no, you cannot tunnel. Tunneling blinds you to other possibilities. I have tunneled, detrimentally, on a single player for an entire game before. I was town, and so was he. We lost. Not entirely my fault, but imagine if I'd stopped for a second to consider other options, and just put my tunnelvision aside for just a moment.

If you want a katsuki lynch, you gotta work for it. At this stage of the day, I am going to suggest that you do not. We have two viable wagons. One I personally agree with and one that I do not. Give us a case on katsuki that makes sense. Part of being good town is helping people see your point of view. When you don't put much effort towards that end, it makes people wonder why.

So, I'm going to tell you how you should be playing, since you seem to be asking: check Espeonage and ABR's ISOs. Look at the motivations. Look at the voting patterns. Look for contradictions. Look for pushes or balks without explanation.

You know, scum hunt.

I am not picking on you. But I am pressuring you. I like you very much but I do find your strategy here rather bland. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as I have my eye on other people at the moment, but that will not last long. That's all I'm saying.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yes. The first vote is RVS. He moves to the growing wagon of pjo, which is essentially people figuring him out. After that, it was clear to me he was town and the wagon on him formed quickly enough to confirm that as well as the fact that there was likely at least one if not two scum on it. Then, lurker mindgamer who parked his vote. People moved to him in an effort to give pressure. Except ABR just sorta played along whereas others were talking it out. The rest of his votes are all over the place, ending with a leading wagon towards day end.

What does this tell you, TSO?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't have the luxury of assuming his mindset. I can only analyze his behavior and actions here. It may be true; he may not give a fuck. But that is not alignment indicative, generally.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh yeah. I forgot. I'm lazy. I don't like meta diving the way you do. The one I witnessed is still on. I saw others in his topics. I'm at work so not ISOing or opening multiple thread tabs at the moment. You can always look, but honestly it's not even part of my case on him here. If I remember when I get home, I'll post it for you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You have to ask the other questions too, ffery. Is it pro-town? Does this match his town meta?

None of it does. So the only evidence I have are his votes. Saying he's vote-hopping, well I mean really. I've flat out claimed scum as scum and won before. Words are distractions a lot of the time.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

espeonage (5): natirasha, tammy, projectmatt, fferyllt, Albert B. Rampage

Here's another reason...

- My top scum read, ABR, is on the competing wagon.
- Espeonage gave be good town vibes on my read-through.
- Nat and Tammy are difficult to put in the town pile and either could easily be scum, switching out with BB in my list.
- pmatt is clueless, as far as I can tell, at least for the moment.


That leaves only you, ffery, as a reasonable player I could trust to really look into their reads. One person out of five on a wagon I don't agree with leads me to believe I am correct that it is a wagon on town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Albert B. Rampage (5): katsuki, pjovek, cephrir, especiallythelies, bbmolla

But look at this.

- I have evidence that convinces me ABR is scum.
- I believe pjovek to be town, and ceph is also very town for me.
- I put katsuki in a null-mostly-leaning-town area.
- BB is the only one I am not feeling good about on the wagon of my choice.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What exactly are you referring to. I feel almost all of his posts read town to me. As a whole, it looks like excited town that started the game strong and then got overwhelmed, and subsequently became a wagon choice. I can literally feel where this person is.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ffery, no offense, but you really like to zero in on stuff that paints an obscure picture that is hard to follow. You bang hard on that little shit, that to me, really doesn't mean anything. That's what I feel about the first quote. I feel it is a nothing issue.

What's wrong with suggesting pjo is a VI? He was acting like it early game. If he wasn't the wagon wouldn't have formed. It was not entirely scum driven, there were certainly town on it. But yeah pjo was acting like a douche. He's better now. Now that we've gotten a chance to adjust to his temperature. It's the people who didn't eventually realize that and look elsewhere that concern me.

Griping about cabd's gambits? I do not like gambits either. Do you? Especially town gambits. (See: Wake88)

The only part of this whole thing that makes any sense for Esp-scum is the very last sentence. But without the rest actually equaling scum, I don't see it. And the rest does not equal scum, imo.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

<3 cabd.. i dont know your gambits but i have a distaste for them in general and do not find espeonage's distaste alignment indicative. That was the point. You pull a game winning gambit that doesnt piss me off and i'll concede your awesomeness.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Sorry to hear about your girl BB; I hope she heals quickly. I still expect your reads but understandably, as soon as you have time. Hopefully before deadline.

Also.. you were voting Nat? Why..

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Sooooo ah... I'm taking a break. Thanksgiving and all that you know.

V/LA until Sunday.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Sooooo ah... I'm taking a break. Thanksgiving and all that you know.

V/LA until Sunday.

forgot to bold and stuff

[EspeciallyTheLies]

OMFG GUYETT ILY. <3

Your slot is still scummy though.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What...?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Everyone on Espeonage's wagon who is saying they would be good with lynching ABR also.... why the hell are you not voting ABR then!?

I think Espeonage is towntowntown.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

-.- y u no read

check my ISO. It's short.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Unless that vc is wrong... you are voting chamber...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

A+ posting ^^

[EspeciallyTheLies]

*sigh* With 5.5 hours you couldn't wait more than 40 minutes?

Stop trying to disperse wagons, llama

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I've been tempted this entire time to call you captain but garek never knew kirk

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Chamber looked like the buddy in Empire's 455 list.

Chamber buddy with who? nat?

(also... [post] tags are hawt)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

He's attempting to draw votes to disperse the wagons because otherwise cannot make us take him seriously enough to push a competing wagon.

At least, that is what it looks like to me.

I still think he is scum, but I'm not going to let him lose my focus.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And honestly, if he's NOT doing that, and just acting this way...

I have words I can save for end game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL: Have all the words you like. Your play is odd as shit too from my pov.

How so? I'm honestly interested to hear about my play from an '05

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL is scum btw

I'm not willing to proclaim ABR town, but, knowing ABR a little bit, I don't think I see much that's indicative of him being scum either. Also, everyone's just kind of flopping on to him so I don't think we even gain that much info from his mislynch. Still very unhappy with that being the leading wagon.

Yet you have not made a serious case against anyone or even tried to put any effort into getting us to see what you are thinking. Instead you have sprinkled in random trollish crap. You have some better posts but I don't see the purpose of the others, if not to distract.

I'm not willing to proclaim ABR town, but, knowing ABR a little bit, I don't think I see much that's indicative of him being scum either. Also, everyone's just kind of flopping on to him so I don't think we even gain that much info from his mislynch. Still very unhappy with that being the leading wagon.

And yet you're sitting your vote on Pjo still. :/

And this.

I mean, I presented a list of suspects I found acceptable. None of them have any traction, me picking an arbitrary one to vote isn't going to change that.

You. Did not. Make any convincing case. There's no effort. You don't get to complain about people not listening to you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Holy crap. I thought Ceph was town. -.- I really need to ISO him; I wasn't paying him close attention.

Esp, I seem to have missed something - you claimed a PR, when? What was it? And you have some information for us?

Also, just went a few posts back in your ISO to find it and one of your last posts of the day about Ceph and BB caught my eye. Can you expand any thoughts you have there?

I'm at work right now, but I'll see what I can find on my lunch break.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm thinking we have either got a SK or a vig..

Yes clearly.

I doubt we have an SK. More than likely we have a vig and a protective role. Ceph's role is the non-normal in this game, we should not have any extreme surprises.

Guyett, do you have anything better to add? Any thoughts about your read through?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wow. Totally mixing up my games.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I dont remember who started the ABR wagon but I was encouraging people to vote there over Esp towards the end of the day.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Nat, I like esp and cabd for town. Guyett and Llamarble are more questionable. I wasnt really liking Tammy's posts, but I was thinking it could just be playstyle. Guyett claims he didnt read the thread even though he had time. Do you have something more on that slot I missed?

Also, what are you thinking with Llama?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh dear Guyett. You're scum this time, aren't you... This is not townGuyett. That makes me sad.

Also, shame on anyone considering to lynch Esp right now. He's still my strongest town read and he fucking claimed a PR. Let's hear his results at the very least.

After that, I plan to vote Guyett. If anyone quicklynches I will be mad.

p-edit: agree with pjo 100% too btw. He's second strongest town read if not just as strong of a read as Esp.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I want his result which will be useless

PEdit: I chuckled

This is an interesting stance to take TSO, considering you were completely useless yesterday. You showed zero evidence of having such strong suspicions on esp yet now you do? Something doesn't jive here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

TSO, please do not make such bad attempts at misrepping. I clearly was not neutral about you yesterday, unlike your attitude about esp yesterday, which now seems to have transformed into a strong scumread without any support. If you can direct me to your case against esp that shows the progression of your read on him, then fine. But as of right now, it looks more like you just decided to scumread him, than actually scumreading him.

And as far as your read on me, I am comfortable knowing you are incorrect.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How were you not neutral?

Arent you the one who complained I was picking on you? And now you are asking how was I not neutral? Being logical does not mean I thought or think you are town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm now totally in the town-BBmolla camp.

Yep.

Oh, also, after reviewing Cephrir's iso, I don't think hes scum with T S O.

Why not? You think Guyett(Tammy)/Ceph + ??

I'm thinking we have either got a SK or a vig..

Yes clearly.

I doubt we have an SK. More than likely we have a vig and a protective role. Ceph's role is the non-normal in this game, we should not have any extreme surprises.

Guyett, do you have anything better to add? Any thoughts about your read through?

Well lots of people all know who the confirmed town is, so long as we have a vig and not an SK.

I don't actually follow what you mean. Did I miss a vig claim.. ?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I guess so. It's been a busy few days. Who were they so I can check ISO, or if you are so inclined to oblige, quote the posts?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am not voting myself...?????

Also wtf happened between me leaving work and getting home??!!?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Esp?? Oh god my reads are bad.

I need a reset.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh dear Guyett. You're scum this time, aren't you... This is not townGuyett. That makes me sad.

*sigh*

This is why I died. Remember this. If Guyett is in a game with me and I die N1/N2 - lynch Guyett. Always. ALWAYS!

Otherwise my reads were pretty shit. I didn't consider Nat until it was far too late.

Well done, scummiez.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

yeah then if we'rein a game together and both town th scums will kill me to frame you.

that's why we need to just stay in our hydra and never leave it.