Event Card Mafia (Game Over)

[Magua]

Magua replaces DeathNote

Hai guiz.

@Papa Zito:

Kindly illuminate to me why a Nacho vote would be good. Whilst on the subject, why is a TIP vote bad?

@Metal Sonic:

If you could super-town it up so I know you're super-town, that'd be great.

Since I'm too lazy to read the OP atm, what is a veto vote?

[Magua]

I am always obv-super-town, so, there. That was easy.

Why is the supertownbloc voting Nacho?

[Magua]

I'd normally vote for Nacho right now, but I don't

want to help zMM in any way

start my game off by actually voting for scum because it sets aspirations I won't be able to live up to

want to.

[Magua]

What's his L- at?

Better question: Do you think Nacho's scum?

[Magua]

Well, so why did you ask what L- he's at? Do you think he should be voted or not?

[Magua]

If you were really curious, you could've looked at the vote count on the previous page and figured it out. Would've been faster than asking.

But: Do you think he should be voted or not?

[Magua]

Iecerint-town.

zMuffinMan-town.

Juls-town

when

if Nacho flips scum.

That is all.

[Magua]

Quick note: Ideal card submission is Split Universe (allows for double lynch) + Always On.

Always On could be swapped for Black Light, but it's a matter of known town advantage vs unknown.

[Magua]

Followup to Oversoul and ZZZX because lollockedthread: Your plans are bad and you should feel bad.

Oversoul, the knowledge you claimed, if true, you should absolutely positively under no circumstances do anything with.

PEDit: Nevermind on that last bit.

[Magua]

Always on is okay. Sure talk to x all you want. My issue is I'm paranoid about most people and with the convo I had in our thread very frustrating.

None of them are as good as DDLM, but, shrug. The rare cards are all antitown crap, and the common cards are the gamut from bad to meh to only slightly town (Split Universe being the best, in that category).

So seems better to submit 1 sliiiiightly town card (Split Universe) + 1 actually useful town card (Always On / Black Light).

I think Always On's value can't really be overestimated, especially since it lets people claim things to people they trust (eg could do a massclaim to a trusted townie ie Juls who could then direct actions).

Really curious why you were nomed

Because

Oversoul scumreads me in every single game we've ever played together

I'm not reading the thread, which is obviously a scumtell for me.

The Plan I discussed didnt look bad to me. How did it look bad to you?

Your plan in #16 in our nomination thread is pointless, so just contributes noise without value. The bad plan was Oversoul's in #14 (third paragraph from the bottom).

[Magua]

Vote for Event is bad because the really town positive cards are all Unique Events. (ie, if Vote for Event came up, what would you vote for? May as well just put that card in anyways.)

Juls mentioned Modified Savior. Think that's bad (only real advantage is that it essentially disallows quicklynches). Split Univrse + Always On/Black Light is better.

PEdit: Nevermind. =P

[Magua]

When I've seen Savior games, the game tends to drag on (which I dislike on a personal level) and not be informative wagon-wise as to who people actually want to lynch.

[Magua]

Vote for Event is cheaper than the Unique Events. Also, the voting for events is public, so we will get a really good Unique Event if we get it. So it basically lets us put in 2 Unique Cards.

Vote for Event can't be used to get Unique Events; ie, the only events you can get with it are crap to meh.

[Magua]

I'm actually talking to zoraster about that as we speak.

It's got a huge benefit for Town in terms of being able to coordinate actions and lynch based off of investigation results. But the downside is that there's a better than even chance that scum would be able to submit the kill before protective roles, which is bad news bears because I'd rather keep townreads alive than have earlier access to a tracker report.

[Magua]

A quick guide!

Spoiler: Magua

Spoiler: Magna

Re: ActionDan: His track report on me is correct. Seeing him actually visit confirms that he wasn't roleblocked.

[Magua]

I nominated no one, Oversoul and ZZZX both nominated me.

[Magua]

Awesome.

[Magua]

Metal Sonic is obviously the one lying, like it was never really a question in my mind. "ActionDan claims to visit Metal Sonic, but Metal Sonic had claimed PGO" didn't even parse into "Maybe Dan was roleblocked," it went directly to "Metal lied."

The only part that's in any way concerning is:

Why did you do that?

You are going to die

And it is all your fault

Where Metal seems to be claiming some sort of delayed PGO ability, but the home viewing audience is not convinced this is legit.

---

Too many [censored]heads doing [censored] [censored] without a clue of what they're doing and more importantly why. [censored] them with a [censored].

I don't think Metal is scum, though. Metal-scum lies about PGO to avoid being targeted by town PRs, and would then be the one to perform the kill. But Metal didn't perform the kill, so I'm seeing little scum motivation for him to have made the claim.

PEdit:

I don't like how Magua was buddying up to Juls.

It's her eyes.

[Magua]

Re: Juls dying tonight, given my understanding of Venmar's role and the Mafia Roleblocker being dead, preeeeeeeetty certain the only way she dies is if Venmar decides to claim scum.

[Magua]

AD is not confirmed town (could easily be eg Mafia Tracker). Just his choices are confirmed.

I do like his reaction about Metal being one of his targets is pretty weird, though; it's neither "Holy shit, Metal claimed PGO? But I'm still alive!" like if he was unaware of it, and it's not "I didn't believe that claim for a moment" as if he was aware but dismissive of it; it's "Eh, I sent the mod the wrong thing." I would expect scum to have a more consistent story because they're going to expect to get disbelieved.

[Magua]

He probably thought I was a rp who didn't want to get NKed

And so you think that AD-scum, who thinks you're a PR, decides to track you rather than kill you?

[Magua]

You're not even really trying anymore, are you?

[Magua]

Welp, since you say he's going to die, I have to say either a) you're lying (again) and I've past the point where I'm going to pay attention to what you say, or b) he'll die and there's really no use talking about it is there?

[Magua]

Haaaaaaaaaaaave to say, nope, you're still lying. If you could stop lying, that'd be great. Because you know who lies? Scum. Scum lies.

[Magua]

I see why people want to lynch you.

[Magua]

Two full-role trackers isn't a thing. Iec is town. I'm have a little re-read of today's events too.

Given the large number of essentially anti-Town event cards, and Mafia's ability to veto pro-Town ones, I think you have to calibrate your PR expectations a bit higher than normal. Especially with two trackers being less powerful than one cop.

---

Unrelatedly, I fully and completely believe talah's adjusting investigator claim because holy shit zoraster is proud of that role and has used it before and will use it again, plus talah's posts reek of actually thinking like that role.

---

I skipped Brian Skies' wall. I hope someone with more time than me will tell me if I missed anything, but I'm going to go ahead and doubt it.

I'm not reading anything related to the cards nominated. But I sent in Vi's Cry_Wolf and Modified Savior.

Change Cry Wolf to Always On or Black Light as per your preference, kthx.

@Cheery Dog:

This goes for you too.

(Alternatively, show how you expect any Cry Wolf investigation result to be useful especially given scum will lie about what they received.)

Yeah, scum will lie about what cards they submit etc, but you don't have to go and make suboptimal choices to make it worse.

---

Black Light doing something with the goo is a very good guess (eg, identify everyone who has goo?) However, I'm not sure of the usefulness of this, given that we know(?) there's two types of goo and that Nacho didn't have any goo when he died. So I'm going for Always On, because holy shit I think that's powerful mojo, but I understand that

recluses

hermits

Oversoul

disagree. Still, Cry_Wolf is just objectively terrible.

[Magua]

Scum are going to lie regardless, so that is not a good enough reason to dismiss Cry Wolf. It's essentially the same time of faulty reasoning that Nacho was pushing yesterday of how we should have vetoed Nomination Day, because there was a chance that Mafia wouldn't be nominated. Given that we will be looking at 12-14 town investigating, compared to 2-4 scum lying, I think that we will be able to put those results to good use, since collectively (and with additional investigations) we can use them for PoE purposes, which is incredibly dangerous to scum.

You're aware that the investigations are 51%-65% accurate.

So.

A single investigation on any person is literally useless.

Two investigations on any person that are contradictory are literally useless.

Two investigations on the same person that agree are 75-89% accurate.

The problem is that being only slightly better than a coinflip, you can't trap scum in a lie on their claims.

So.

Yeah.

[Magua]

I think Metal Sonic was just

bullshitting

dicking around

hyperbolizing with his yellow goo. Witness "people who visit me die" => "people who visit me will die" => "people who visit me will have something bad" => "lolidunno what's going on."

But I think if there is an actual negative effect, Metal Sonic claiming it is a pretty protown move (whereas antitown would be to not claim it but try to draw actions).

For AD, I agree on apathy and general uncaringness, but I do not see those actions coming from a scum perspective. AD-scum who targeted a PGO-claim would come out swinigng with "I targeted Metal Sonic and he didn't die, lynch all liars" or similar. Instead his entire reaction of, "Lol fucked up, wrong person" seems genuine.

[Magua]

I hope someone with more time than me will tell me if I missed anything, but I'm going to go ahead and doubt it.

Nice discredit.

Thank you. I worked hard on that one.

And I don't particularly find anything to be so largely pro-town that I need to nominate it. Black light is 'generally pro-town' but not necessarily. Always On is just whatever to me. I don't care about it one way or another and personally, I don't like the idea of interactions outside of the game that rely on word of mouth. If I had a choice, I'd prefer a role that would force all neighborhoods, etc. into the game thread so people can't hide behind them.

Vi's Cry Wolf is just percentages. It's no better than a coin flip. I even mentioned how I thought it could be useless in my nomination thread when I submitted it. But I don't see it being any better or worse than what you're submitting. I just submitted it because the somebody else (CD?) mentioned it in the nomination thread and I didn't really care.

I'd like you to explain your thought process here. I mean, I understand people who don't give a shit enough to think about it and so pick whatever for the lulz. But you're actually advocating here picking something that you *know* is useless in comparison to something that is only "slightly" protown. I see later on you've resubmitted Black Light instead of Cry Wolf, which is great, hooray, etc, but I still don't follow your line of thinking presented here, and I do want to.

---

God, the quote striping to-and-from Bulbazak is hella annoying and a PITA to read. Whilst on the subject, ZZZX needs to learn that he can not quote the entire post to add "me too" on the end.

---

Eeeeeh, I've got a whole bunch of townreads and not much in the way of scumreads at the moment. Which is super

awesome

bad and all, but meh. I'm mostly in a hanging pattern until the nominations are in and I know what the next event card is and then I'll start thinking about things.

[Magua]

Is it ok that I found a sudden incress of Magua's activity after being choosen? I haven't even noticed him before and he is suddenly very active.?

Spoiler: Portrait of ZZZX as a young man

[Magua]

@ActionDan:

Super important that you answer these questions asap kthxbai.

1. In what order did you target myself and Metal Sonic?

2. Were you informed by the mod that you have yellow goo?

[Magua]

Going camping this weekend. Will be back Sunday.

Kindly don't lynch anyone until I'm back because I'll be cross if I don't get to plan in regards to the upcoming event. Also this should go without saying but you never know, don't lynch mem's slot until you either get a claim or a replacement who can claim, kthxbai.

[Magua]

Prod dodge

Back.

I think that using the veto on Day Action was not the best, but crying over spilt milk etc etc. At least we got Black Light out of it, so that's cool.

---

I don't believe mnemonic's claim combined with Talah's result. zoraster would happily include a role with complex use restrictions (eg the adjusting investigator, or his word-triggered-tracker from a previous game) but do not believe he would include a role with random results. Do not think a rolecop would target someone who had already claimed in favor of anyone who had not. Still want to hear the claimed targets though because lulz.

---

Specifically need ActionDan (or his replacement) to answer these questions, especially given that tomorrow is Black Light:

@ActionDan:

Super important that you answer these questions asap kthxbai.

1. In what order did you target myself and Metal Sonic?

2. Were you informed by the mod that you have yellow goo?

[Magua]

My bad. I read mnemonic's "My role is cop with goo gone" as "I'm a role cop with goo gone". Welp. Doesn't really change anything.

[Magua]

Sorry. Last day of finals. Will fix everyone's problems tonight.

NO JUST FUCKING CLAIM NOW JESUS H CHRIST

[Magua]

@

ActionDan

Clyton:

Super important that you answer these questions asap kthxbai.

1. In what order did you target myself and Metal Sonic?

2. Were you informed by the mod that you have yellow goo?

[Magua]

Given that zoraster hasn't posted a vote count recently, how do you know it's L-1 without knowing what we're waiting for?

[Magua]

Right. Obviously you backtracked. The question is, how did you find zoraster's last votecount, read the posts after that looking for votes, and keep a tally without parsing these posts?

Followup question: Upon entering the game, with no information other than that there is someone at L-2, why did you vote them? Srs question, would like actual answer. You say "You want to make the most of this

because

before

the day ends," but that would seem to be actually the exact opposite of your action.

As for the yellow goo: Rather than answering your question at this time, I'd like you to tell me what you think having yellow goo means. For context, note that people who die at Night tend to have blue goo. Not expecting deep thought on this one, just want your off the cuff opinion.

PEdit: mnemonic, I note you didn't give an N1 result. Is there a reason for this?

Too many ninjas.

[Magua]

Whoops, missed Juls's post. I guess I can give my action, although I don't know how much help it gives town. I am avoiding posting it until we know better what goo does, or I am pushed nearer to lynch, so that way it doesn't give an advantage to scum if they know what the goo does.

Pretty certain mnemonic is completely lying about the cop bit. I mean, yeah, big leap there, with the Follower result on him and his claim being what it is and just in general being terrible.

But the above makes me think he actually is a goo-goner or has some goo-related action. Doubly-so given his coming out

swinging

limping for Black Light Day as a thing.

Super problem is that I can't differentiate mnemonic-town lying for shits and giggles from mnemonic-scum lying out of self-preservation/knowing something about the goo that we don't.

---

@mnemonic:

You say talah is town. Talah says you don't have an investigative role. Why do you think this is?

[Magua]

At this point, I'm content to let mnemonic self-hammer if he's scum tbqh.

[Magua]

Honestly didn't really think that AD was Mafia Tracker. So, hooray? Hooray.

Do think that AD trying to put mnemonic (buddy) onto his track list instead of Metal Sonic means that Sonic is not mafia.

Am interested in hearing anyone who's claiming to be the source of the Blue Goo, 'cause I'm pretty certain from the non-claim of it D1/D2 that it's a Mafia-ite. Given that its not Iecerint of Clyton, and I don't think the source is farside, Metal Sonic, Zito, or talah, that leaves Bulbazak or CheeryDog. Given the missing kill from N2 while he was jailkept, leaning on CheeryDog.

VOTE: CheeryDog

---

Town is: farside, Juls, Metal Sonic, Papa Zito, talah, Venmar

[Magua]

*fidgets*

[Magua]

The town-scum ratio is so high that I think Influence is a non-issue. It's just going to make things stupidly complicated for determining when someone is near lynch.

[Magua]

Magua, I don't know if Cheery is scum for the missing night kill. Zor said that the mafia doing the kill had to submit both the actions. Wouldn't that have been interfered with by Farside completely?

You're right. I'd read zoraster's 2855 in completely the opposite manner of what he actually said. So Cheery could not have been submitting the kills N2.

I do think that Blue Goo started with a mafia member. I do not think that all mafia members, or even the last ones alive will have goo on them.

There's literally two Mafia left. One of them is, I'm 99.99997%, within (Bulbazak, Cheery Dog), ie, the source of the Blue Goo.
Given only two colors of Goo, unless there's a third color we haven't seen, I would find it very unlikely that the last Mafia would have Goo on them at this time.

[Magua]

Trying to figure out what we know and where things came from.
Also goo apparently is important...I'm looking at the order from the script from what Zor gave us.

The names are alphabetical order.

Metal Sonic started the Yellow Goo. ActionDan tracked him, explaining his Yellow, and me, explaining mine, and Iecerint tracked ActionDan, explaining Iecerint's Yellow.

(That also means I'm confirmed Town, bee-tee-dubs. Suck it, Oversoul!)

Juls not having Goo means that you either got Goo'd N2 after protections, or you got goo'd N3. If it had been before, both Juls and CheeryDog would have it.

That leaves:

Bulbazak
CheeryDog
Papa Zito
talah

And of those I'm pretty damn certain that Zito is town and talah is town, so.

[Magua]

Well, I'm not going to say that scum never claimed bodyguard (after HunterxHunter), but I will note that scum who have claimed bodyguard have never, ever, ever, ever, ever won.

I mean, especially if he has to keep bg'ing Juls as she vigs all possible lynch targets, 'cause if she dies he gets lynched.

---

PEdit: Welp, so Farside may have been Goo'd before we thought.

Possible theory that Oversoul won't approve of is that CheeryDog is the source of the Blue Goo, and Farside and Juls both got it from the jailkeeping N2.

---

PEdit2: Forgot Iecerint targeted Cheery. That would put all of those on simultaneously. However, that doesn't explain you and Juls having it, because investigations (like Tracks) are last. So theory still stands.

[Magua]

No.

No.

No.

Farside, check your role interactions with the mod, but:

If Cheery Dog had Blue Goo, then Iecerint should've gotten it from tracking him -- that is, your jailkeep should not have kept Iecerint from being Blue Goo'd.

Therefore it's not Cheery Dog.

UNVOTE: CheeryDog
VOTE: Bulbazak

[Magua]

I think you are town regardless?

Did I leave you in my list of scums? I considered you fairly town once I deduced you were Vanilla Townie from the Neighborhood chat.

I'm miffed that you nominated me yesterday, so now I'm going to tunnel you all game once this Blue Goo stuff is dealt with.

---

@Farside:

The question I need you to ask zoraster is: "If I jailkept someone who had Yellow Goo, while a Tracker tried to track the person with Yellow Goo, would the Tracker still receive Yellow Goo?"

A "yes" response clears Cheery Dog of being the source of Blue Goo.

---

Pedit: Protections are before investigations, so at least Iecerint is covered. Less sure about Venmar/you interaction.

[Magua]

If we lynch correctly today, it's 1v15 with like 6 mislynches available and half the game cleared, and that's not even counting the vig or PRs clearing or whatnot.

I don't get how venmar does not get goo target iec night 2

Iecerint got goo by tracking. Tracking doesn't happen until the end in zoraster's action resolution order (Investigation), so Iecerint was not goo'd until after protections had already happened.

[Magua]

Either:
a) you didn't get it from jailkeeping Cheery Dog N2 (AGar believes this to be correct), or
b) Jailkeeping comes after bodyguarding in zoraster's action resolution (you may be able to confirm this with zoraster), or
c) Venmar didn't target you

Honestly, I just don't care about Venmar at the moment. It is a weakness of mine, bodyguard claims, but Venmar is simply not living to lylo, and in the meantime if he's scum he has to let the vigilante live to keep up appearances, so.

[Magua]

Guys, srsly, this is getting kind of dumb.

1. If the Mafia are allowed to action + kill (and they are in most zoraster games), or if Clyton didn't perform the kill, then Clyton got to track someone and spread goo that way.
2. There's a kill missing N2, which makes it hiiiiiiighly likely that someone who was protected was targeting by the Mafia-ite with the blue goo but lived. But they'd still have goo. (This is my current theory.)
3. Iecerint fucking tracked someone and gave them the goo.

In regards to Bulbazak vs Papa Zito, I want Bulbazak first simply because if someone's going to decide to powerbus their own roleblocker like that, I want to encourage that behavior.

----

Agar's claim and what it means for the setup are super weird. Two trackers + the adjusting investigator role? But, I agree that as scum he's cutting his own throat with that claim, so, hooray, I'm happy to accept it? It'd be different if he had goo, but he doesn't, so there's really no scum motivation for him to be drawing attention to himself in the non-goo group like that. Sure, his position wasn't the best beforehand, but if he's scum and his partner gets lynched then he's in a completely unwinnable situation.

[Magua]

If having both yellow goo and blue goo does not give you green goo, then zoraster has failed as a mod.

[Magua]

With talah's no action on Bulbazak, I'm going to undo everything I said.

UNVOTE: Bulbazak
VOTE: Papa Zito

Guess bussing Nacho just isn't worth as much as it used to be.

[Magua]

maybe because clyton made the kill not bulba

It's entirely possible.

But I think that the scumteam recognized the need to spread goo. In retrospect, I think that ActionDan's targeting of you, specifically, wasn't misguided/accidental as I had assumed earlier, but was specifically done because a) the Mafia had someone with goo on their team, and so knew how it worked, b) wanted to intentionally spread goo (probably to combat Black Light Day).

Blue Goo Goon not doing the kill probably means they were afraid of being jailkept or tracked. This makes more sense coming from Zito than from Bulbazak.

@all goo-ed people did any of you target bulba in any way?

So, I normally hate to claim, unless I'm lying about my claim, in which case it's still fun, but I want to nip some goddamn paranoia in the bud right here:

I'm

the

a cause of bulbazak having goo, and by extension, I'm a cause of talah having goo. Entirely possible that bulbazak is the Blue Goo Goon and had it before me, but on the off chance that he dies and flips town with yellow goo, well, that's me, folks. God, it feels so terrible to be truthful.

Also, no, I'm not going to say why.

oh and Magua I noticed that you called yourself confirmed town before but we dont know for sure that scum does have goo from the start or not.

Spoiler: My obvtowniness shines with the intensity of a thousand suns.

Don't look at it too long, or you'll go blind.

[Magua]

Magua, why did you originally vote Bulba then after realizing your mistake with Cheery?

I still weight the push on Nacho heavily. The cause for my change from voting Bulbazak to Papa Zito is talah's no action result on Bulbazak.

Hmm... I don't think it is useful for you to be hidden in the shadows while the rest of the people are out in the clear, I mean, scum have a lot to choose from either way?

One of these days, Oversoul, I have faith that you will realize I know what I'm doing.

One of these days.

[Magua]

Three Mafia were alive to do the kill last Night.

Clyton
Blue Goo Goon (who could not have done it because Iece did not have Blue Goo)
MYSTERY THIRD OPTION (who if he did the kill would now have Yellow Goo)

Seeing as Mafia *knew* that Black Light was going to be in effect, I do not believe MYSTERY THIRD OPTION would've performed the kill because then Mafia would be in a place where all three of them would have Goo. Again, given the deliberate targeting of Metal Sonic, I believe Mafia was fully aware of the mechanics of the Goo.

So I think it's pretty good odds that Clyton did do the kill.

Not seeing how this super matters, though.

[Magua]

I haven't forgotten.

It's possible that mnemonic claimed a fellow Mafia-ite's role. If he did, I expect his claim to be mostly truthful, which would include this bit: "However if I visit an original goo, my goo gone no longer works, and I have that color goo on me." Which would still result in Mafia in the Goo-pool.

But I think it more likely that he ripped it off from a zoraster-provided fakeclaim. Were it a concrete thing that mnemonic were copying from, like a partner's role, I would expect him to just go with it rather than be like, "Oh yeah, and a cop!"

[Magua]

I can't really give good reasons why mnemonic claimed Cop-with-Goo-Gone, because it was just such a bad move. Trying to come up with justifications makes my head hurt. But in regards to a "provable" plan to verify his claim, I'll remind you that his claim was that it worked only 50% of the time. So there was no provable plan possible.

[Magua]

Magua: why did you target bulba?

I chose my target based on maximum return for my role.

Not going to give any more details based on that.

---

For Influence, it pretty much doesn't matter. It'll be annoying because it'll get hard to differentiate between L-1, L-2, and L-3, but even if there's two scum alive it won't make a difference. Scum's not going to be in a position to pull a quickhammer gambit.

(The card basically says "The more people who are voting you, the less your vote is worth." How much your vote is worth is updated once every 24 hours.)

At close to lylo it could be bad and shenanigans-y, but here it's ignorable.

[Magua]

We start with 10 votes and it moves up based on votes today.
I see more then one wagon so how is the vote determined starting tomorrow?

It is based on the votes during Influence's Day (ie tomorrow). Ie, the weight of your vote tomorrow goes up and down based on who's voting you tomorrow. Today doesn't matter.

[Magua]

Pretty certain that they knew what his role was because of the combination of Mafia having someone with Blue Goo and Broseidon having claimed Yellow Goo.

[Magua]

Also Metal Sonic is cleared from having Blue Goo because Iecerint confirmed ActionDan visiting Metal Sonic, and ActionDan/Clyton didn't have Blue Goo.

FMPOV, Sonic is conftown.

[Magua]

Do you think Bulba is more likely to be scum than Zito?

If so, why are you bringing it up and not acting on it?

If not, why are you bringing it up at all?

[Magua]

Can we lynch him anyway?

Sure, right after we have two more dead mafia.

[Magua]

Holy shit I feel bad for the scum in this game. Their luck has been atrocious.

Holy fucking even more shit, I feel bad because over half the game is cleared. Let me look it over real quick. AGar and Talah should also be able to clear someone each.

[Magua]

REGULAR:

Original Roll String: 1d40

1 40-Sided Dice: (8) = 8

LYLO:

Original Roll String: 1d14

1 14-Sided Dice: (12) = 12

[Magua]

Player Choice / Normal Day

Even more bad luck for the scum. =P

[Magua]

From 3166:

Since farside did not die with Yellow Goo, anyone who has Yellow Goo is cleared. So:

Bulbazak -- Cleared, has yellow goo courtesy of me
CheeryDog -- Cleared, has yellow goo courtesy of Iecerint's track
Juls -- Cleared by role
Magua -- Cleared by being superobvtown
Metal Sonic -- Cleared, has yellow goo from role
talah -- Cleared, has yellow goo courtesy of me

That leaves:

AGar -- Probably town due to role, super uninterested in lynching
Aronis
Brian Skies
Oversoul
Prof Fridays
TheIrishPope
PeregrineV
Venmar
ZZZX

Going to lulz heavily if its Venmar. Which it totally could be. But if so, I want to reward the bodyguard claim for the lulz, so not really interested in lynching him unless there's a report or something. Sort of want to lynch TIP just because it'd feel so good if 4/5 of the scum were actually called D2; could also be persuaded to lynch Peregrine.

Don't think it's Oversoul or ZZZX. Ambivalent on Aronis, Brian, and Prof. Hopefully AGar and talah can clear some of the nulls. Or just have a guilty. That'd be fine too.

Scum should actually just give up, as I'm pretty sure there's no way for them to win at this point with the number of cleareds.

[Magua]

Always On allows mass claim to any of the cleared people, of which we have bunches. Also will allow coordination of AGar / talah so they don't double up.

Day of the Dead would be fun (and give the mafia a chance to

troll

complain to us about their shitty luck), but is only actually *useful* to learn who farside jailkept last Night.

Split Universe speeds things up considerably.

So I'm putting on Split Universe / Always On and suggest y'all do too.

@Mod:

With "Vote For Everyone" is it possible to achieve multiple lynches by getting more than one person to L-1 and then having a player vote for all of them?

[Magua]

Yes, I shot you in a 1 vs 14 game. I will do it again tonight too and the next night and the next night and the next night until you are dead.

Please don't. Like, super plz don't do this.

The Cleared

Brian Skies -- Cleared by AGar
Bulbazak -- Cleared, has yellow goo courtesy of me
CheeryDog -- Cleared, has yellow goo courtesy of Iecerint's track
Juls -- Cleared by role
Magua -- Cleared by being superobvtown
Metal Sonic -- Cleared, has yellow goo from role
talah -- Cleared, has yellow goo courtesy of me

The Uncleared

AGar -- Probably town due to role, super uninterested in lynching
Aronis
Oversoul
Prof Fridays
TheIrishPope
PeregrineV
Venmar -- Probably town due to role, super uninterested in lynching
ZZZX

It is currently 7 cleared vs 8 uncleared.

Today/tonight we can remove three people from the uncleared list (lynch + talah + AGar + Juls, Mafia can stop one of those) and the Mafia can remove one person from the cleared list, so tomorrow will be 6 cleared vs 5 uncleared.

And at that point it's not mathematically possible for the Mafia to win

unless Juls decides to help them

.

So really game is over and we're just going through the motions at this point.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

AGar and talah should name their targets from the uncleared list to ensure no overlap. Juls should shoot someone who's not being investigated

or doing an investigation

. Venmar protects whoever the fuck he feels like.

No, but seriously, game is over.

[Magua]

@Juls:

How does it make sense for scum to claim it? Scum knew they were in a 2:16 situation, and they claim something that brings the spotlight onto them? And AGar's reactions to Clyton's claim seem legit.

@Oversoul:

Do not believe for a moment there is a ninja in this game, because a ninja would've been performing the kills N1, not PZ.

[Magua]

@Metal Sonic:

Always On, Split Universe.

@Oversoul:

Why would a ninja perform a kill over a goon? Well, huh. Man, I can't think of a good reason.

<_<
>_>

[Magua]

I actually want Always On so we can get reports and shit and secretly identify the last Mafia, and then all lie and troll the everloving bejeezus out of them, telling them they'vebeen cleared, etc, etc, stringing them along to the very last Day in a 3-way lylo, dragging *that* Day down to the wire all the time having the two town attacking eachother and calling the Mafia town, and then, as deadline approaches, just when they think they've pulled out the comeback victory of the century, crucifying all their hopes and dreams.

[Magua]

Juls, just let AGar live tonight, and if fgame is still going on tomorrow when we have more cleareds than uncleareds, I'll happily sheep you. k?

[Magua]

I disagree. It's only this one-sided because of a large convergence of events. But that's neither here nor there. Just don't lynch AGar today or shoot him tonight and we can lynch him tomorrow, and if you're right I'll be all, "Shucks, Juls, I never should've doubted you," and you can be all like, "Magz u suk @ mafia lrn2play n00b" and I'll be all like "i kno rite"

[Magua]

Also, I want to apologize for my fail

I did not mean to hammer Papa Zito. I thought I was putting him at L-1 and I realize that probably fucked over us in terms of night action coordination last night

I would also like to apologize for being on a scum lynch wagon, I'm super sorry about that, it won't happen again.

---

Prospective Night Actions. Feel free to argue with me.

Lynch TheIrishPope
Juls kills PeregrineV
AGar tracks Aronis
talah follows Prof Fridays
Venmar protects one of (Juls / talah). I had AGar on that list but took him off because of Juls.

Worst case scenario, come D6, the uncleared list looks like:

AGar
Oversoul
Venmar
ZZZX
(One of Aronis, PeregrineV, Prof Fridays)

And at that point we'd have six cleareds, so even without PRs we lynch off the uncleared list and still have a completely won game.

Absolute worst case scenario that still follows the plan, tomorrow will be 6 cleared vs 5 uncleared. Lynch + 2 PRs - 1 due to Mafia kill means D7 will be 5 cleared vs 3 uncleared. At that point Venmar will have to have protected someone (or claimed scum) because there's only one relevant PR left so there'll still be 1 PR that night for lynch + 1 PR so D8 will be 4 cleared vs 1 uncleared and win.

Lynching AGar D6 means guaranteed win is pushed back to D9 if AGar is town. But I'm willing to do that for you, Juls.

[Magua]

Oh, it's worse than that for the scum because talah/AGar are clearing people, but I was counting them as vigs.

Doing it correctly, the absolute worst case scenario still involves us getting to D8 with *7* cleared and 1 uncleared.

So, yeah.

[Magua]

Magua -- Cleared by being superobvtown

[Magua]

Can it be because I

bussed

voted Papa Zito?

[Magua]

I think it's an example of "your scum partners look scummier to you than they do to the town," ie, Zito saw the slip and figured everyone would jump on it and so he might as well, when in reality if he hadn't've pushed for it it may have gone entirely unremarked.

[Magua]

You can see where he tries to jump off in 2329.

[Magua]

Sssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[Magua]

How am I supposed to troll confirmed town with you ruining things?

[Magua]

Juls, what if I told you that I'm a tracker too?

Cause I, y'know, am.

[Magua]

Like, in all seriousness, I admire the effort you're putting into this, I really, really, really, really,r eally, really, really, really, really, really do.

It's just that I think you're wrong. I don't think AGar-scum would make a claim that *guarantees he loses if his partner is lynched* when it was already established that his partner was essentially in a 50/50. So given that I think it's less than 50% that AGar is scum, I'm loathe to lynch him because it delays the worst-case-game-win by another Day, which with zoraster having 72-hour-long-fucking-Nights is like an eternity.

I think it's *so* *much* *more* *bloody* *likely* that the last scum is a demotivated dispirited lump who's already given up on the game, so that's who I want to get rid of first.

Seriousness over. Back to me being a tracker.

[Magua]

I look at you trying to shoot AGar last Night and I see visions of vezokpiraka, an Innocent-Child-vig[1] in Touhou uPick shooting Sakura Hana, who was from my scum-POV the most obvtown int he entire game. And I'm flashing back. Except in that game I was scum and was ecstatic, and here I'm

scum and ecstatic

not.

[Magua]

Missed the rest of the post:

vezok shooting Sakura is literally what allowed us (the scum) to win that game. vezok was super paranoid about Sakura's role, and decided to go one-man army, and ended up utterly losing the game for Town because of it.

[1] Don't ask, you're better off not knowing.

[Magua]

I'm not acting like you're a moron, and at no point have I ever said anything like that.

I've said I think you're wrong on AGar, and I've given my reasons why. You very well could be right; I just think it's unlikely. And given the we've already won, I'm really just playing the odds here. AGar-scum-who-has-to-clear-people literally cannot win. Work the math yourself if you don't trust me -- even discounting you, talah, and Venmar, AGar-scum must clear one person a Day and can only kill one person a Night, so will eventually end up in a situation where it is him vs 7 cleared Town and then he will get lynched.

And that whole "must clear one person a Day" bit is something that he volunteered, without having to, out of the blue, yesterday. So I'd rather prioritize people who literally did not even post yesterday (PeregrineV).

[Magua]

My entire goal here is to deplete the list of uncleareds as quickly as possible. I honestly have very little interest in the order in which the list is depleted, I just want to maximize its rate. AGar helps deplete the list, even if he's scum. That is the long and short of it for me.

tbqh, I am much more suspicious of Venmar than I am of AGar, but I'm not going to lynch him because keeping him around maximizes the rate of clearing the list. If Venmar is scum, he's definitively lost (at some point we get down to one PR whom he must then "protect" and can't kill and so he can't remove cleareds faster than we can remove uncleareds), so I'm simply not worrying about it.

[Magua]

You're aware that I'm confirmed town, right?

So, tell me, using small words as I am dumb, what advantage you think you would receive from my claim?

[Magua]

(I mean, if anything, we should have the uncleared claim, but I just don't actually care that much and if any of them have anything useful to claim they'll do it anyways.)

[Magua]

But I'm on the cleared list

that I wrote

for being super obvtown.

Can't argue with that.

Tying you to something you slippery mother fucker

And what, exactly, is the point of tying confirmed town to something?

Srsly not understanding your thought process here Oversoul.

[Magua]

Because I think there's something fishy about you. I will never let my paranoia of you die. We should mass claim now though

Spoiler: My claim (spoilered for brevity)

[Magua]

The perplexing thing about Oversoul is the only time he's ever seen me do something like that was when I was confirming him as Town *and* trying to take a bullet for him, yet, he did not learn from the experience.

This game, I legitly claimed that I was responsible for talah and Bulbazak having yellow goo which swung the lynch onto Papa Zito with great results and lets trackers

and jailkeepers

fully clear people.

Because as scum, I like a challenge.

So I'm very, very, very, very, very, very, very curious as to what his thought process is.

[Magua]

Assuming that farside did jailkeep Juls, DDLM tells us nothing of value -- Iecerint would not have performed his track on the Night he died because of zoraster's resolution system.

Basically it'll just be a big excuse to troll.

[Magua]

^look I somewhat agree with this. Obviously Oversoul wants your claim particularly Magua. I wouldn't mind it either.

You must've missed where I claimed tracker

Or where I fullclaimed

Yeah, well, I'm a

troll

dick

fan of not claiming, so. Happy to philosoraptor about it at length but it's not really relevant to this conversation, which has already grown 10x beyond the bounds of what it should've been due to paranoia.

If I have information that is of use to the town (eg I'm responsible for you and Bulbazak having goo) I will give it. If my information isn't useful, I won't give it because then the only people it can benefit are scum, and I'm not in the mood to benefit scum.

(This is also why I just don't care about the uncleareds claiming, really. If someone has useful information, they'll say so, otherwise, they won't.)

However.

If we get Always On, I will fullclaim to the entirety of my cleared list, so. Y'know, you can submit that card and then I'll claim everything to you because you're town and you'll look at it and you'll say, "Welp, I see why you didn't want to claim in the open."

[Magua]

@Mod - Replace me - sorry.

Scum should just end the game rather than make zoraster have to find a replacement for a confirmed town slot.

[Magua]

I am super saddened that (at least) one of Aronis / PeregrineV must be town.

[Magua]

I am super saddened that (at least) one of Aronis / PeregrineV must be town.

Ok, I have to ask. Why does it sadden you that I must be town?

Because between you and Aronis, at least one of you is town who is completely and 100% unaware of the contents of the previous two Days of the game.

[Magua]

Welp, I'll just make you aware of these two things then:
- If you're the last scum, you should just give up now and save zoraster the pain of replacing talah and us the pain of dealing with 3-9 more real life days of this.
- If you're town, you should note that my People's Glorious Plan For Town Success is for you to be vigged tonight.

Also, Always On + Split Universe is the cat's meow for card choices.

[Magua]

You need to have two cards, and of the common cards it gives us the most positive benefit in that we can get two lynches in the same Day.

[Magua]

Oh, I just reread SU and it doesn't work if there's less than 3 Mafia. Nevermind.

@Mod:

OP states that Player's Choice requires a minimum of 2 cards, but your Google Form states a minimum of 1. Which is correct?

- If just one card, the cat's meow is Always On.
- If two cards, the cat's meow is Always On and...well, there's really no good one. Sorority? I guess.

[Magua]

Always On allows for massclaim to the cleareds and organization of actions.

DDLM allows for zMuffinMan to troll me and for scum to rage about their terrible luck in the setup.

There's really no reason to drag out the Day except that I want to know what the next Day's card is going to be, so.

Due to Split Universe not giving us two lynches, I've changed my vote from Split Universe + Always On to Sorority + Always On and recommend that you do too.

[Magua]

Scum have goo on them from killing farside. farside had goo on her previously from jailkeeping PZ. THe cleareds are those who are confirmed to have yellow goo, not those who have no goo.

@Oversoul:

"Only occurs if 12 or more players

and at least 3 mafia members

. If there are fewer, this card still splits the game into two private threads, but the main thread is open for votes only (only one lynch in this case)."

[Magua]

Agar needs to claim his result. Not just that he visited me.

Spoiler:

[Magua]

We shouldn't be lynching anyone at all until after we know what the card is for tomorrow, which we'll find out Sunday morning.

[Magua]

Thought: Magua, who did you visit last night, if anyone?

If your role resolves before kill, they're clear.

ty, but I'm aware of the role interaction. I can't clear anyone today who's not already clear.

[Magua]

So what cards do I submit

You have two options:

Always On + Sorority Pledge Day if you think massclaiming and action organizing is cool.

Dia De Los Muertos + Sorority Pledge Day if you want

the scumteam to troll

zMuffinMan to troll

farside to tell us her action N4[1] which may or may not clear some things up.

[1] Which is totally going to have been to jailkeep Juls.

[Magua]

Vote for Event is a Rare event that cannot get Unique Events (which are the only actual good ones), only Rare or Uncommon events (which are meh-to-terrible). There is no point in picking Vote for Event[1] because you could instead be picking the event you would actually be voting for instead.

[1] Except to troll and make the Day last excruciatingly longer.

[Magua]

Talk about anticlimactic. We don't even get a "mafia screw you" card.

@Mod:

1. Are unvotes allowed in the main thread?
2. Is voting for someone not in the game allowed in the main thread?
3. Is voting for someone in the game but not allowed to be voted (eg, dead) allowed in the main thread?
4. Is morse-code-voting with votes/unvotes (example) allowed in the main thread?

[Magua]

Ok.

I'm going to claim.

I'm a "Townie with a Vest."

This is exactly like being bulletproof, except I could one-time transfer it to someone else.

I transferred it to talah on N3, so talah is now bulletproof. After transferring, my role is now "Vanilla Townie" and that's what I'll flip as[1]. The target is not notified of their bulletproof-ness, but I am notified whether the transfer succeeded or failed, and can verify that it succeeded.

The transfer resolves at "Misc" on the action resolution list, so after kills. (This is the reason I didn't transfer N2.) So I transferred to talah N3 at "Misc", giving talah goo, and then talah followed bulbazak at "Investigate", giving him the goo.

The long and short of it though is that talah is bulletproof so I've been aware for the last few days that this game is even more over than it was to the common knowledge.

[1] This is my real reason for claiming. I don't want to die at some point and have everyone go "Oh Magz was lying about having an action" and then be like "Oh so talah and bulbazak aren't clear" and then kaboom. No. I like gambiting as town a whole bunch, but I don't like spreading misinformation. I did make those visits, and my role flip is not informative because zoraster likes to screw with me.

I'm going to reformat Juls' list slightly:

Cleared

Juls -- By role
talah -- Cleared by yellow goo
Metal Sonic -- Cleared by yellow goo
Bulbazak -- Cleared by yellow goo
Cheery Dog -- Cleared by yellow goo
Magua -- Cleared by being super obvtown

Not Cleared But Destined for Death

Venmar
Agar

Uncleared

Brian Skies -- Cleared unless farside jailkept Agar last Night, so most cleared of the uncleareds
Oversoul
Aronis
Prof Fridays
TheIrishPope
ZZZX
PeregrinveV

So for tonight (this is the same list Juls proposed in 3643):
1. Lynch PeregrineV
2. Juls shoots ZZZX
3. Agar tracks TIP
4. talah follows Prof. Fridays
5. Venmar protects Juls

For Venmar, I honestly would prefer that Venmar protect Agar, but want to assuage Juls' paranoia, aaaaaand this way scum will shoot Agar so we don't waste tomorrow lynching him.

[Magua]

Since zoraster is

the opposite of fun

against communication, lynches for tomorrow should be:
1. If Juls dies, lynch Venmar.
2. If talah dies, lynch me.
3. If talah (or Agar, I suppose) vote the person they investigated, lynch that person.
4. Otherwise, lynch whoever Juls votes.

For the next Night (N6):

1. Venmar protects Juls.
2. Juls targets the bottom person on this list who wasn't cleared (eg if talah doesn't vote Prof Fridays tomorrow, assume Prof Fridays is clear)
3. Agar (if alive) targets the next most bottom person who isn't clear
3. talah targets the next most bottom person who isn't clear

[Magua]

Scum's being a superdick for making zoraster get a replacement into this game.

[Magua]

To anyone reading this pondering whether to replace in as talah:

You'd be replacing into a bulletproof confirmed town who is also

possessing the potential to be

a cop. DO IT NOW.

[Magua]

Hooray!

[Magua]

Spoiler: People We Don't Worry About

Cleared

Juls -- By role
Shadoweh -- Cleared by yellow goo
Metal Sonic -- Cleared by yellow goo
Bulbazak -- Cleared by yellow goo
Cheery Dog -- Cleared by yellow goo
Magua -- Cleared by being super obvtown

Not Cleared But Destined for Death

Venmar
Agar

Uncleared

1. PeregrinveV
2. ZZZX
3. TheIrishPope
4. Prof Fridays
5. Aronis
6. Oversoul
7. Brian Skies -- Cleared unless farside jailkept Agar last Night, so most cleared of the uncleareds

THE PLAN:
- Lynch the top person on the uncleared list.
- Juls, if alive, shoots the next person.
- Agar, if alive, tracks the next person.
- talah, if alive, investigates the next person.
- Venmar protects Agar
- Repeat until guaranteed win is won.

SO TONIGHT THE ACTIONS ARE:
1. Lynch PeregrineV
2. Juls shoots ZZZX
3. Agar tracks TIP
4. Shadoweh follows Prof. Fridays
5. Venmar protects Agar

BECAUSE TOMORROW IS SPLIT UNIVERSE, NOTE THE GENERAL RULES FOR THE LYNCH TOMORROW:
- If Agar dies, lynch Venmar.
- If Shadoweh dies, lynch me.
- If either Shadoweh or Agar votes for their investigation target, lynch the target. If they are alive and do *not* vote for their investigation target, assume they are cleared and do not target them N6.
- Otherwise, lynch the top person on the uncleared list.

I want agreement from Shadoweh, Venmar and Agar that they understand the plan, then we can end this

travesty of a

Day.

[Magua]

15 second goo thing: Goo spreads to people by targeting someone with goo / being targeted by someone with goo. A bunch of us are confirmed to have yellow goo via Iecerint (dead town tracker). The kill last Night did not give yellow goo to farside, ergo, the killer didn't have yellow goo, ergo, people with yellow goo are clear.

For Split Universe: Since tomorrow's card can't be Split Universe, yea, we will be able to talk in thread again D7 (if we get that far, which if there is a Lord in Heaven, we won't).

For results: Haven't written down the claims, but pretty certain that everyone on the uncleared list aside from Agar and Venmar is VT. Regardless, if you (or Agar) gets a "Kill" result, a track to the dead guy, a gun, a guilty, etc, then yep, just say so and vote them.

[Magua]

I'm going to take that as agreement tot he plan that you'll protect Agar.

So.

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope
VOTE: PeregrineV

@Everyone:

At Night, send a PM to zoraster telling him to end Night early. If he receives one from everyone, it might even happen!

@zoraster:

Reduce length of Night to 48 hrs kthxbai

[Magua]

IF GOD FORBID THERE IS ANOTHER PLAYER CHOICE CARD TOMORROW PUT IN SORORITY PLEDGE DAY AND DIA DE LOS MUERTOS

[Magua]

@Venmar:

If you have a problem with people thinking that you might be mafia, then you may possibly be playing the wrong game.

With the plan as-is, we're guaranteed to clear (or kill) all uncleareds by D8. If you have a better alternative to the plan, I'm all ears. If you think the plan has a flaw, I'm all ears. If you're just whining because people might be thinking you're mafia in a game of mafia, welp.

*I'm* fine with being first on the block if we go through the uncleareds and the game is still going on, since the chance of that happening is 0%. So my level of sympathy for you is also 0%. If Agar dies, you get instalynched. If Agar dies and you get lynched and you flip town, I will rain holy hell on zoraster for having bastard role flips in this game.

If you *are* scum, you have lost. There is no way, no how, no power on this Earth that means that you are surviving to 3 way lylo. If you're town, either come up with a flaw in the plan, come up with a better plan, or FOLLOW THE GODDAMN PLAN.

[Magua]

I clicked there and nothing happened.

Lynch all liars.

[Magua]

@Metal Sonic:

Vote PeregrineV. He's L-2 currently.

Because I

love hearing myself talk

want it on the last page when we go to Night:

Spoiler: People We Don't Worry About

Cleared

Juls -- By role
Shadoweh -- Cleared by yellow goo
Metal Sonic -- Cleared by yellow goo
Bulbazak -- Cleared by yellow goo
Cheery Dog -- Cleared by yellow goo
Magua -- Cleared by being super obvtown

Not Cleared But Destined for Death

Venmar
Agar

Uncleared

1. PeregrinveV
2. ZZZX
3. TheIrishPope
4. Prof Fridays
5. Aronis
6. Oversoul
7. Brian Skies -- Cleared unless farside jailkept Agar last Night, so most cleared of the uncleareds

THE PLAN:
- Lynch the top person on the uncleared list.
- Juls, if alive, shoots the next person.
- Agar, if alive, tracks the next person.
- talah, if alive, investigates the next person.
- Venmar protects Agar
- Repeat until guaranteed win is won.

SO TONIGHT THE ACTIONS ARE:
1. Lynch PeregrineV
2. Juls shoots ZZZX
3. Agar tracks TIP
4. Shadoweh follows Prof. Fridays
5. Venmar protects Agar

BECAUSE TOMORROW IS SPLIT UNIVERSE, NOTE THE GENERAL RULES FOR THE LYNCH TOMORROW:
- If Agar dies, lynch Venmar.
- If Shadoweh dies, lynch me.
- If either Shadoweh or Agar votes for their investigation target, lynch the target. If they are alive and do *not* vote for their investigation target, assume they are cleared and do not target them N6.
- Otherwise, lynch the top person on the uncleared list.

[Magua]

Spoiler: Setup thoughts

1. The event card mechanic overall I believe is anti-Town, so that has to be considered.

2. I think you need to consider how D2-D4 were essentially the perfect storm of goodness for the Town. Pretty much if anything had gone differently for Town, we would not be in this great position.
- Had Nacho not been lynched D2 (thanks Papa Zito) we wouldn't be in this situation (likely no reports for Iecerint or talah).
- Had ActionDan not spread yellow goo, and/or Iecerint not tracked ActionDan and confirmed the spreading of all the yellow goo we wouldn't be in this position.
- Had we not had Black Light Day D4 we wouildn't've lynched Papa Zito.
- Had talah not followed Bulbazak we (probably) wouldn't've lynched Papa Zito.
- Had we not lynched Papa Zito D4 we wouldn't be able to clear everyone with yellow goo, trackers / jailkeepers wouldn't be able to clear people, etc etc etc etc.

3. I think zoraster's approach is a lot of weak PRs instead of a few strong PRs. Vigilante is strong, but has a dedicated blocker for it. Shadoweh's role can be strong, but only with a bunch of mislynches. Aside from the "only one mafia left" scenario, Jailkeeper is weaker than doctor. Yellow goo VT is only of any Town use in very specific scenarios (eg Black Light Day + one mafia left). So we've got a 40% PR rate (instead of eg 30%) but the powers are a lot more restricted.

[Magua]

And yet you can still vote PeregrineV!

[Magua]

He's L-2 and no one's voting him.

[Magua]

@PeregrineV:

I didn't want to say anything, but.

Stop being Venmar.

If you think the plan has a flaw, say so. If you have a better plan, say so. If you think you know who the scum is, say so.

But for fuck's sake, you were not caught up at all at the start of the Day and I highly doubt that this has changed, so you, of all people, complaining about the lack of scumhunting while sitting there not even *reading the thread* and certainly not scumhunting and instead tossing out straight up AtE isn't ironically humorous, it's just annoying.

[Magua]

He will literally either get cleared or die by the end of D6. Just hammer.

[Magua]

(Just like you will either die or be cleared by the end of D7. So, you know, if you're scum, you should just give up now and save us the trouble.)

[Magua]

Redacted. Please be careful not to post in the thread

[Magua]

VOTE: Sorority Pledge Day
VOTE: ZZZX

[Magua]

Confirming things with zoraster.

[Magua]

I'm going to claim.

I'm a "Townie with a Vest."

This is exactly like being bulletproof, except I could one-time transfer it to someone else.

I transferred it to talah on N3, so talah is now bulletproof. After transferring, my role is now "Vanilla Townie" and that's what I'll flip as[1]. The target is not notified of their bulletproof-ness, but I am notified whether the transfer succeeded or failed, and can verify that it succeeded.

After double-triple-verifying with the mod, zoraster has confirmed that I had the vest at the start of N3, that I was not shot N3, that I transferred it to talah, and that I did not have the vest at the end of N3.

Everything in 3671 is true and correct.

The only alternative this leaves is that Mafia have a strongman power of some sort. But I can't reconcile why they would have such a power and not use it to kill farside eg N2.

The other point of information is that Juls did not flip with blue goo, when there was only one Mafia left when farside (who had blue goo) was killed. So it also seems that the Mafia has immunity to picking up goo (Juls and Shadoweh both already had yellow goo -- Juls from shooting Clyton and Shadoweh from me giving the vest). This further confounds me because I could see a Mafia who was immune to goo, or I could see a Mafia who was eg a 1-shot strongman, but I'm having real trouble seeing one role with both powers.

(On the plus side, I have *real* trouble with seeing a Mafia who is immune to goo *and* a strongman *and* investigation immune, so hooray?)

If there's any Town with any role-information on either of these two things, that'd be *swell*.

----

I think those who were lit up during Black Light Day are clear -- I think the Mafia has the ability to not pick up goo, but they obviously don't remove it from their targets (like mnemonic's goo-gone fake claim) because Juls, farside, and Shadoweh have all flipped with it. So I still believe in CheeryDog, Bulbazak, and Metal Sonic being clear.

TheIrishPope: Agar tracked TheIrishPope to no one N5
Prof Friday: Shadoweh presumably tracked Prof. Friday to no one N5
Aronis: Agar should have a report on Aronis for N6
Brian Skies: Agar tracked Brian Skies to no one N4, possible that Agar was jailkept by farside
CheeryDog: Shadoweh got a negative follow result on CheeryDog N4, also, has yellow goo

Oversoul, Venmar, and Agar are the remainder.

So normally I'd just advocate Oversoul lynch, but want to hear Agar's report and think about things.

---

PEdit: Oh. Oversoul's claiming scum. Welp.

I'm fine with being lynched. Venmar protects Agar, Agar tracks Oversoul.

[Magua]

11 alive, 5 mislynches to lose.

Today: 11 alive. Lynch me. Agar tracks Oversoul.
D7: 9 alive. If Oversoul comes back as no visit, tbqh, I would still just lynch him and have Agar track Brian Skies that Night. Oversoul's push for me to claim + reaction to Shadoweh dying are both incredibly forced.
D8: 7 alive. MYSTERY SURPRISE LYNCH? I mean, at this point everyone has a report clearing them so if you get here then welp have fun. Agar should track Venmar for shits and giggles?
D9: 5 alive. WILDCAT IS OFF THE SPOKE. This is probably the point where you should lynch Agar if he's still alive.
D10: 3 alive. HOW DO I SHOT WEB?

[Magua]

<_<
>_>

[Magua]

Venmar, kindly explain your role to me please.

[Magua]

Yellow goo came from Metal Sonic. ActionDan tracked him and me, spreading it to us, Iecerint tracked ActionDan and CheeryDog, spreading it to Iecerint and CheeryDog. I spread it to Shadoweh who gave it to Bulbazak, and Juls got it from killing ActionDan.

This is basically all confirmed by the combination of Iecerint's track results and the Black Light Day results.

There was only one mafia left when farside died, so if the killer had yellow goo, then it should've shown up on farside. Similarly, the last mafia killed farside, and so *should* have blue goo, but Juls and Shadoweh both died without blue goo. Hence Mafia has some goo-related ability, probably immunity.

[Magua]

Welp, that at least makes more sense than a strongman who bypasses bodyguards.

@Metal Sonic:

Kindly paraphrase your role, please.

[Magua]

<_<
>_>

[Magua]

Well.

This is weird. I'm not seeing how the blue goo got from Zito to Shadoweh. And I'm not seeing how it didn't get onto Juls.

---

Farside jailkept Zito N3. Zito had blue goo, gave it to farside. So farside had blue goo as of D4. This is confirmed from Black Light Day.

N4, Juls claims to have shot Agar. It was assumed that farside jailkept either Juls or Agar. But Juls doesn't have blue goo, which would indicate that farside jailkept Agar.
But if farside jailkept Agar, then a) Juls should've gotten blue goo from trying to shoot him regardless, and b) how did Shadoweh get the blue goo when she was investigating Prof Friday?

On the other hand, if, eg, farside jailkept Prof Friday, then Shadoweh got the goo from investigating him. But if that's the case, what stopped Juls' kill on Agar from going through?

Something is not adding up.

[Magua]

Mmmmmmmmmmm. If you protected Agar N4 and Shadoweh N6 then that would fexplain everything nicely, which I like.

That would mean that Agar's report on Brian should be legit.

That would also mean that TIP and Aronis should have blue goo (pedit: and yellow goo) from being investigated by Agar.

PEdit:

Wait a minute.

Juls went to AGar on N4, the night I saved AGar from her. That means AGar got goo from her, and I picked it up N5.

THIS MEANS I HAVE YELLOW GOO

DID I JUST FIGURE IT OUT?

Yes (you wouldn't've gotten it N4 (protects come before kills), *but* you would've gotten it N5).

----

So from what we know, farside jailkept neither Juls nor Agar (in both cases Juls would've gotten blue goo). Working scenario is that farside22 jailkept Cheery Dog or Prof Friday, giving them blue goo, and Shadoweh then investigated them.

[Magua]

Information instead of Analysis

Infodump

@Venmar:

Yes, my brain wasn't working straight. Agar should not have blue goo at this point -- only you and (Cheerydog or Prof Friday).

How can {Cheery Dog, Metal Sonic, Bulbazak} be Goo-cleared, exactly? It seems to me the mafioso could have any type of Goo on him and it wouldn't matter as to what the victims flipped. I mean, it makes sense to believe MS, but I don't think Cheery Dog and Bulbazak are clear - are they? Perhaps I'm overlooking a piece.

Cheerydog, Metal Sonic, and Bulbazak are all confirmed to have goo (Black Light Day) which confirmed town actions show should be yellow. When farside died N4 with blue goo but not yellow, my thinking at the time was that that cleared everyone with yellow goo.

With juls dying N5 without blue goo, new thinking is that the last mafia is goo-immune (which would still clear everyone who lit up under Black Light Day). It is possible that theory is wrong -- scum could be some sort of JOAT who had a 1-shot power to remove goo from themselves which they used after killing farside, but that would *still* mean it wasn't anyone who showed up with goo on Black Light Day. A competing theory for Bulbazak, Cheerydog, Magua, or Metal Sonic being scum would have to account for us having yellow goo during BLD, not having it N4, and then not having Blue Goo N5. I just don't think it's likely.

---

Known information:

Agar - Tracker, still likely slated for being shot
Venmar - Doctor, still likely slated for being shot

Aronis - Tracked by Agar N6
Brian Skies - Tracked by Agar N4 (confirmed that Agar was not jailkept that Night because farside22 had blue goo from jailkeeping Papa Zito; if she jailkept Agar, he would have it, and then Juls would have it from trying to shoot him -- Juls did not die with blue goo, ergo, Agar was not jailkept)
Metal Sonic - Yellow goo starter (farside22 did not die with yellow goo N4)
Bulbazak - Had yellow goo D4 (farside22 did not die with yellow goo N4)
Magua - Superobvtown
CheeryDog - Followed by talah N4
Oversoul -
Prof Fridays - Tracked by talah N5
TheIrishPope - Tracked by Agar N5

So the only people with a report on them after there was just one Mafia left are Agar, Bulbazak, Magua, Metal Sonic, Oversoul, and Venmar.

---

Known Actions / Goo spreading

Spoiler: N1

ActionDan tracks ??? -- We'll never know
mnemonicdevice vig blocks ??? -- We'll never know
Nachomamma roleblocks ??? -- We'll never know
Papa Zito kills BBmolla (either giving BBmolla blue goo, or receiving goo from BBmolla)

Agar tracks TheIrishPope
farside jailkeeps Nachomamma
Iecerint tracks talah
Juls shoots KingdomAces
talah tracks Venmar
Venmar protects Oversoul

---

At the end of the Night, Metal Sonic has yellow goo and Papa Zito has blue goo.

Spoiler: N2

ActionDan tracks Metal Sonic and Magua (confirmed by Iecerint) -- ActionDan and Magua receive yellow goo from Metal Sonic
mnemonicdevice vig blocks Juls
Papa Zito kills zMuffinMan and farside (supposition) -- zMuffinman and farside (supposition) receive blue goo -- farside is supposed because Iecerint was the only other protect target and did not die with blue goo

Agar tracks Juls and Venmar
farside jailkeeps CheeryDog and Juls -- Does not receive goo from CheeryDog because protects are before investigations
Iecerint tracks CheeryDog and ActionDan -- Iecerint and CheeryDog receive yellow goo from ActionDan
Juls shoots ??? and ??? -- Doesn't matter because jailkept by farside
talah follows Oversoul and mnemonicdevice
Venmar protects Iecerint and farside -- Does not receive goo from either because protects are before investigations

---

At the end of the Night, ActionDan, CheeryDog, Iecerint, Magua, and Metal Sonic have yellow goo and farside (supposition) and Papa Zito have blue goo.

Spoiler: N3

Either ActionDan or the mystery mafia kills Iecerint -- We know it wasn't Papa Zito because Iecerint did not have blue goo, and because he was jailkept by farside

Agar tracks no one
farside jailkeeps Papa Zito -- Receives blue goo now if she didn't have it before
Iecerint tracks ??? -- Doesn't matter because it didn't resolve
Juls shoots ActionDan -- Receives yellow goo
Magua gives vest to talah -- Gives talah yellow goo
talah follows Bulbazak -- Gives Bulbazak yellow goo
Venmar protects Agar

---

At the end of the Night, Bulbazak, CheeryDog, Juls, Magua, Metal Sonic, and talah have yellow goo and farside and Papa Zito have blue goo.

At this point, we have Black Light Day. The results of Black Light Day exactly match our expected list.

Spoiler: N4

The mystery mafia kills farside -- This should give them blue goo, but we know from the N5 kill of Juls that it didn't.

Agar tracks Brian Skies -- Gives him yellow goo (unproven)
farside jailkeeps either Prof Friday or Cheerydog (supposition) -- This is supposition based on Shadoweh having blue goo; that only happens if Shadoweh investigates someone that farside jailkept, and those are the only two options
Juls shoots Agar -- Gives Agar yellow goo (unproven)
talah follows CheeryDog
Venmar protects Agar -- Since protects are before kills, Venmar does not receive yellow goo yet

---

At the end of the Night, Agar (unproven), Brian Skies (unproven), Bulbazak, CheeryDog, Juls, Magua, Metal Sonic, and talah have yellow goo and (Cheerydog or Prof Friday) (supposition) and farside have blue goo.

Spoiler: N5

The mystery mafia kills Juls -- This should give them yellow goo, but given that they didn't receive blue goo from farside, it probably didn't.

Agar tracks TheIrishPope -- Gives him yellow goo (unproven)
Juls shoots ??? -- Doesn't matter as it didn't resolve
talah follows Prof Friday -- Gives him yellow goo, and may receive blue goo (supposition)
Venmar protects Agar -- Receives yellow goo (unproven)

---

At the end of the Night, Agar (unproven), Brian Skies (unproven), Bulbazak, CheeryDog, Magua, Metal Sonic, Prof Friday, talah, TheIrishPope (unproven), and Venmar (unproven) have yellow goo and (Cheerydog or Prof Friday) (supposition) and talah (supposition) have blue goo.

Spoiler: N6

The mystery mafia kills Shadoweh -- This is despite being doctor protected and being bulletproof. As Shadoweh flipped with both yellow and blue goo, this should mean the mafia has both, but, again, they probably didn't.

Agar tracks Aronis -- Gives Aronis yellow goo (unproven)
talah follows ??? -- Doesn't matter as it didn't resolve
Venmar protects Shadoweh -- Receives blue goo (supposition)

---

At the end of the Night, Agar (unproven), Aronis (unproven), Brian Skies (unproven), Bulbazak, CheeryDog, Magua, Metal Sonic, TheIrishPope (unproven), and Venmar have yellow goo and (Cheerydog or Prof Friday) (supposition) and Venmar (supposition) have blue goo.

---

Takeaways:

Fun fact: Oversoul is the only person who the actions say doesn't have goo at this point.

I think it so incredibly likely that both Agar and Venmar are town. Agar should track from the list of (Bulbazak, Magua, Metal Sonic) and so if he lives to 5 player lylo every single person will have a report clearing them.

---

If we get the opportunity to get DDLM (eg player choice) we should. One of Prof Friday / Cheerydog can be 100% cleared by farside, but without some PR that can tell what goo someone has, we can't know.

[Magua]

Pretty certain Venmar is actually conftown due to the missing kill N2. If it had been Papa Zito trying to shoot Juls, Juls should've died with blue goo. The only workable explanation was that PZ tried to shoot farside, but she was protected by Venmar. Yet another stroke of poor luck for the Mafia that she jailkept PZ N3, because it means PZ got lynched D4 for all the wrong reasons.

[Magua]

That would explain why he wanted protection, to track it somehow later.
That would also put my logic to shame.

Oh well, I'll vote myself if I need to. I think Magua is scum or Prof Fridays is scum if Magua flips town. Not sure why we are going out of order for the plan anyway but everything has gone to shit so far anyway.

I'm going to leave aside you thinking I'm scum entirely

because I'm lolling too hard

to ask: How would you resolve Prof Friday-scum with Shadoweh not tracking him to the kill?

[Magua]

So, much like PeregrineV before you, I'll note that "y'all need to scumhunt" instead of actually, y'know, scumhunting, is not useful nor helpful.

Mechanics and all aside, the only reason you give for suspecting me is that I gave Shadoweh a vest and then she died. Not sure what reasons you have for suspecting Prof Friday.

So now's your chance!

[Magua]

Role interactions make it not possible for Prof to be scum I guess. He would have to be a ninja and a strongman.
Is TIP still alive? I thought Nacho was tying himself to him but it could be a Thor scum inspired move from the first cross town game.

You may be interested to know that TheIrishPope *also* has a report on him.

So.

I know I wrote a whole bunch of words in 3882, but you may want to familiarize yourself with the section where I state who has reports on them and all.

[Magua]

How about you

stop being bloody useless

self hammer

read what I wrote and then give an actual opinion?

I mean, if you're going to pull a PeregrineV-I-know-I-haven't-read-the-thread-in-over-a-week-but-shit-I'll-call-you-all-bad, I'll happily hammer you myself right now, because that bullshit is scum behavior regardless of what you flip.

If you *are* town, how about you process the information so neatly summarized into one

little

post along with your reads and actually give a GODDAMN USEFUL OPINION THAT DOESN'T INDICATE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION FOR THE LAST TWO DAYS HOLY FUCK.

[Magua]

Straight up, this is the problem: I thought (and still think) that Juls was wrong on Agar being scum, but holy shit, she at least had an opinion that was rooted in an understanding of the game, whereas every single post of yours indicates complete detachment from it.

"Magz is a cheeky scumbag" is a holy-shit-no-thought-behind-it-at-all post. You think I'm scum who claimed to give talah a vest and then shot her? What's the point of that exercise? To keep Venmar from protecting her? Why would I need to do that if I were a strongman?

"Prof Friday is scum if Magz is town". Why? Do you think Friday, who has a report on him, is more likely scum than one of the yellow goo'ers who doesn't?

SHOW ME WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE THINKING.

[Magua]

If I were a Strongman, I wouldn't need to claim to have given a vest to talah because I could just shoot her without having to worry about Venmar. The only possible reason I would, as scum, claim to give someone a vest and then shoot them would be to ensure they didn't have protection on them, WHICH I WOULDNT FUCKING NEED TO DO IF I WERE A STRONGMAN.

It's like you're not thinking, you're just throwing shit out there rather than trying to FUCKING FIGURE SHIT OUT.

As for reading the thread: tell me what I would've learned by reading it. Can't be much, AS YOU CAN'T BE FUCKING BOTHERED TO READ WHAT'S GOING ON CURRENTLY.

[Magua]

Like seriously, the entirety of your post is "well fuck I know nothing and well can't be fucked but I'm going to say y'all suck"

[Magua]

I was fucking annoyed at Peregrine for his last post, and I was even more double fucking annoyed because he flipped town.

ZZZX was because Split Universe was crap.

Don't get me wrong. You're totally getting lynched. However, you being lynched and flipping town means one of three possibilities:
1) Agar or Venmar are scum. Don't believe this.
2) Scum is someone who is town-action-confirmed to have yellow goo (Bulbazak, Cheery Dog, Metal Sonic) but killed farside without giving her yellow goo and then killed juls without giving her blue goo. I have no good theory that would explain one of them as scum -- scum who was goo immune wouldn't have goo under BLD.
3) One of the reports (Aronis, Brian Skies, Cheery Dog, Prof Fridays, TheIrishPope) is wrong. I don't think scum have a ninja (or PZ wouldn't've made the kill N1 or N2), and I don't think they have another roleblocker (because zoraster's investigation results are from circa 2004), but there are other possibilities.

So, I don't like any of those answers, and so I want to lynch you.

But, if you are, in fact town, then it means I'm wrong on one of them, as so want your opinion as to which you think it is.

[Magua]

So if you think it's 1 or 2....why were your suspicions after me Prof Friday and TIP?

[Magua]

Oh well, that happened.

And Oversoul: Fuck you. Fuck you and your fucking fuckity attitude.

That's all I'm going to say to that.

[Magua]

Agar and Venmar should target whoever they feel like, really.

[Magua]

AND YOU FUCKING HELPED SO MUCH

OH

NO

WAIT

YOU DIDN'T DO JACK SHIT EXCEPT BITCH

[Magua]

Agar and Venmar should target whoever they feel like, really.

Don't track Cheery, actually. He both has his N4 report *and* has goo.

[Magua]

Brian's got an investigation on him from Agar N4.

This was the night that farside died, so there was concern that Agar had been jailkept and so his investigation untrustworthy. However, if farside had jailkept Agar, Agar would've gotten blue goo, and then Juls, who tried to shoot Agar, would've gotten blue goo. Juls didn't die with blue goo, so.

Summing up what I said in sorority last night:

Oversoul had no goo D4 (Black Light Day). Since D4, no town PRs have claimed to target him.

It is possible that farside targeted Oversoul N4, but even if that's the case, then there's no explanation for how the blue goo made it from Oversoul to Shadoweh.

So unless someone's going to come forward and claim, the only possible interaction that I can imagine is that scum has some PR ability in addition to their kill.

DDLM is actually a huge stroke of luck because farside can potentially clear someone (unless we just lynched them yesterday), and on the off chance that there's some other townie out there who could target people but still flip VT like I could, they'll get a chance to say so. For today, though, I'm assuming scum PR+kill.

---

The problem is, with Oversoul town, that there's a key assumption that's wrong. Everyone either has a report from N4 on clearing them, or has yellow goo from a confirmed town source (Iecerint) and showed up as having goo on Black LIght Day. Reports are listed in 3882; the only people without reports on them are Agar, myself, and Metal Sonic.

---

I'm not interested in lynching Agar.

It being Metal Sonic requires him to have had some way of dumping his yellow goo status before/during kiling farside (ie N4). Which isn't impossible, just seems fiddly.

TIP lynch isn't bad, per se, just seems lazy.

[Magua]

I don't want a lynch by tomorrow, so I'm sending in my own name.

In the meantime, I really want more input from Metal Sonic, TIP, Aronis, and Brian about what they think is going on and who they think the scum is.

---

Personally, I don't think it's Agar, and I don't think it's Metal Sonic for mechanical reasons.

I don't think that the last mafia is a ninja, so while I think that they could've had an ability to mess with the tracker reports, I think it was 1-shot or similar and was probably used along with the goo-manipulation-stuff that occurred N4/N5. So I don't currently think it's Bulbazek or Cheery Dog, but much more likely that the mafia knew when they were going to be investigated, that is N5 or N6.

Prof Friday seems to be the towniest of the lot to my read. I really have nothing on Brian, Aronis, or TIP.

[Magua]

did something mess up with "The Plan" ?

why are we unable to PoE this game to win?

Reading is tech, I highly recommend it.

I'm probably meta'ing this too much, but the thing I have holding me back from actually believing TIP-scum-because-I-want-it-to-be-TIP-scum is that the scum has to have been sitting there looking at a 1v14 setup and thinking to themselves "I've got a shot at this." Someone who's out-and-out lynchbait like TIP could, maybe, but I feel it's more likely to be someone who was in a good position even with PZ's lynch.

[Magua]

@Cheery Dog:

I was believing in a scum JOAT as well, but it has one problem: how blue goo got to Shadoweh -- if it went farside->(Cheery or Prof)->Shadoweh, then there's no explanation for Oversoul, and if it's farside->oversoul then there's no explanation for Shadoweh -- except for a possible mafia PR. But with the JOAT theory, N5 would've been the goo immunity and N6 was the strongman.

If you've got some workable theory that addresses that, I'm all ears. But in the meantime I think it's too much supposition to have any real gain.

[Magua]

@Cheery Dog:

I see what you're saying, and it makes setup sense, but that limits it to TIP and Friday, and I don't think it's Friday and, welp, I would've been all over quicklynching TIP two Days ago but am not now.

@TIP:

Why Sonic or Friday specifically? More specifically why not eg Aronis?

[Magua]

@Bulbazak:

Because there's no auto-win and I no longer wish to do just blow through the Days going for the easy option.

My personal paranoia is that for the scum being in a 1v14 scenario, even knowing they have Strongman + goo immunity and/or Ninja, someone who was already slated as being on everyone's scumlists would've just given up. I mean, my first take on the list had TIP in the lynch-spot-of-death.

So.

I'm willing to buy that the goo immunity was 1-shot and CHeery Dog's theory that Shadoweh receives blue goo from being shot seems the most sensible to me, so there's that, and the PoE-land does contain TIP, but it also contains Aronis and Brian and I'm really interested in some people's thoughts around those. Because, let's face it, TIP-says-scummy-things is like the default level. So I don't want, "TIP is scum," I want "TIP is more likely to be scum than Aronis" and "TIP is more likely to be scum than Brian." And while I feel TIP is more likely to be scum than Brian, I don't feel it about Aronis.

So.

Also, I'm never lynching Friday because of 3976.

[Magua]

(I am so fucking happy that Agar flipped town because holy shit was I not looking forward to Juls in this thread if he were still alive.)

(Sorry Agar.)

(Not really sorry though.)

I figured Oversoul was farside's target when he flipped with blue goo. Cheery is imho spot on that the mafia is not goo immune, contracted blue goo as expected from farside, used some power to not give the blue goo to Juls, but then gave it to shadoweh.

I'm not sold on the "N5 is the night reports got messed with" bit, though, because that would mean Prof Friday is scum, and I don't see Prof Friday as scum. But Agar dying does indicate that there was some fear of being caught because otherwise he was very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very likely to be lynched tomorrow.

So.

I don't think it's Metal Sonic for one-hundred-percent-role-reasons. Sonic's play has been crap, but I do not see a combination of "You've got yourself some yellow goo" + "You've got a power to not spread goo that you get to use at least twice" go together.

Thinking it's Cheery Dog or Bulbazak requires some way of farside not having yellow goo + some way of Juls not having blue goo (admittedly, this would probably be the same reason) + some way of avoiding unplanned reports (N4 for Cheery, N7 for Bulbazak).

Brian had an unannounced report (N4).

Aronis and Prof Friday had announced reports (N6 and N5).

I'm suspicious of the planned reports more than the unplanned because I keep coming back to Mafia JOAT (Strongman, Ninja, Goo Thingee) and knowing when you're going to be investigated meshes very well with that.

Playwise, I don't think its Bulbazak or Friday, and I kinda sorta maybe don't think its Brian. My biggest scumread is Aronis, but I'm going to be the first to admit that half of that is due to his posting style and detachment from the game.

---

@BBmolla:

Did you start with blue goo? If you didn't, then it means Zito did, and then I'm even more sure taht Sonic is town.

[Magua]

LET THE WILD

RUMPUS

TROLLING COMMENCE

---

That's not fair, zMM. You know it was

my scumbuddy

Nacho who veto'd it

because he didn't read the very explicit directions I gave him in the Mafia QT that told him not to check the other QTs

.

PEdit: First DDLM was before farside died so get your trolling facts straight kthxbai.

[Magua]

Also going to bed now, very interested in the eight pages that'll be here when I come back.

Welcome any new mechanical insights y'all have, but pretty sure that 3882 has all of the Night action stuff.

[Magua]

Based on what we know of the clears and flips the one player not cleared is cherry dog.
He was not checked the day after papa zito died.

Cheery was checked N4 by Talah, which was the night after Zito died.

Everyone has a report on them except for myself and Metal Sonic.

3882 has all the info.

Final question: what day did magua claim to give talah the vest?

I gave it to talah N3, and claimed it D5 (in 3671)

Yo Magua

Guess what

*hides*

Chicken butt?

[Magua]

Not sure what's been said in the dead thread, but no one's said Juls is a bad player in this thread.

Being wrong on someone does not equal bad player. I should know that better than anyone. =P

[Magua]

MAGUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaAAaaaAA
YOU SAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID I WOULD BE BULLLLETPRoOOooOooOooOoOOoFFFFFF
AND A CONFIRrrRrrRRrRRRRMED CooOOoOOoOOoOOP
BUT I WAaAaaAaaASN'T EVEN CONFIRMED
AND I GOT BUlLlLLlLLlLlLlLlLLETS
AND I NEVER COoOoOOOOOOOOOOOoOOOOOP AaAaAAAAAAAAAAaAAaANYOOoOOoOOONEeEEeeEEE

Spoiler: I made you a cake

But then I realized ghosts can't eat it so I ate it.

It was delicious.

Boooooooooo
I am the ghost of Oversoul

Here to hauuuunnnnnnnnttttt

Baddddddd plaaaaaaaaaayerrrrrs liiiiike Maaaaaagua

I didn't get you anything.

[Magua]

Cheery was followed by talah N4.

The N5 and N6 targets were planned in-thread in-advance, so are the most suspect.

[Magua]

3882

[Magua]

Only new information from 3882 is that the mafia isn't goo immune, because the mafia spread the blue goo to Shadoweh, you, and Agar (the supposition that it was gotten from Shadoweh investigating Prof or Cheery in 3882 is wrong).

So N4, the mafia did receive blue goo from killing farside -- N5, specifically when killing Juls, the blue goo was not *given*. Were it a goo immunity, there'd be no blue goo on Shadoweh, you, or Agar.

(Mech spec: The thing about the people who had yellow goo -- Metal, Cheery, and Bulbazak -- is that if they were scum and had this power, regardless of whether it could be used one time or multiple, they would've been much better off using it on farside N4 to not leave yellow goo, but then *not* using it N5 when killing Juls, because if Juls had died with yellow + blue goo N5, I would've defended to the death the idea that they were cleared by farside not having yellow goo. Juls not dying with blue goo is an obvious sign that some manipulation has taken place.

This is why I was thinking goo immune -- a passive uncontrolled effect makes sense. But with blue goo on Shadoweh/you/Agar, it's become a one-shot thing that was done N5. The problem is there's really no reason to do that unless the scum doesn't know what they're doing, or if it's a side effect. It being a side effect would mean that it was an N5 track which would mean that it has to be Prof, though, which makes me =/.)

Like, in all seriousness, I find the mechanics interesting, but do not want to drive the lynch based off of them.

[Magua]

Friday could be scum putting up the front, but if so he was *quite* bus happy in a situation that he knew would devolve into 1v14.

Aronis, although he would have to have bussed as well, has been a lot more questioning/mudslinging in his posts, which is what is tripping me.

[Magua]

It can't be goo removal, because the blue goo *was* given to Shadoweh N6.

(Barring, again, some town PR that might've targeted Oversoul N4 or later. Because of my role I believed that there might be another "I flip as VT but actually had a role" but would've expected them to claim in the dead qt, but no one's mentioned anything like that.)

[Magua]

3882 is all actions and the list of who was "cleared" by "what".

In regards to Friday/Aronis, I had a general good feeling about Friday's posting, and then skimmed ISOs of them starting around the middle of May. Especially for Aronis' posts in June, they're all either asking a question or "X is scum and needs to die."

(I tried to skim Brian's ISO, but gave up with a mild headache.)

[Magua]

Before I start clicking and looking, can you do the same by ignoring any mention of goo. Like it's not even there.

Aronis - Tracked by Agar N6
Brian Skies - Tracked by Agar N4

(confirmed that Agar was not jailkept that Night because farside22 had blue goo from jailkeeping Papa Zito; if she jailkept Agar, he would have it, and then Juls would have it from trying to shoot him -- Juls did not die with blue goo, ergo, Agar was not jailkept)

Metal Sonic -

Yellow goo starter (farside22 did not die with yellow goo N4)

Bulbazak -

Had yellow goo D4 (farside22 did not die with yellow goo N4)

UPDATE: Tracked by AGar N7
Magua - Superobvtown
CheeryDog - Followed by talah N4
Prof Fridays - Tracked by talah N5

Spoiler: Relevant

[Magua]

@PeregrineV:

I fullclaimed in 3671.

[Magua]

Night 7: Shadoweh the Town Adjusting Investigator with Yellow Goo and Blue Goo was killed

@Mod:

This should read Night 6, not Night 7.

[Magua]

I am unsure what your question means. If you mean "how did I claim", I did it by typing. If you mean, "how did zoraster make a mistake in the OP," I'm going to assume it's Commie mutant traitor sabotage.

[Magua]

If you mean "how did Shadoweh die if she was both made bulletproof by me and protected by Venmar," I will direct you to all strongman-related theorizing.

[Magua]

If you mean "how did Shadoweh die if she was both made bulletproof by me and protected by Venmar," I will direct you to all strongman-related theorizing.

Without fully reading such strongman theorizing, if there was a Mafia Strongman then they would always be doing the kill, and that would render you, Venmar, and farside all useless. just off the top of my head, that seems like bad design, and I find it hard to imagine Zoraster is guilty of that.

Hence the view that it would be a 1-shot strongman.

(And the further view that it would be a 1-shot ninja because otherwise why would Zito have done the kills N1/N2? Which leads to Mafia JOAT. Etc etc.)

@Juls:

Zito's just going to try to antagonize you because he can. His only objective in speaking is going to be to keep town from speaking. Just ignore what he says.

[Magua]

Yes.

[Magua]

Iecerint had yellow goo from tracking ActionDan who tracked Metal Sonic.

Look, not to be rude, but the spread of goo is mapped out in 3882. Parts of it were incorrect because I was wrong about where Shadoweh's blue goo was from, but the N1-N3 stuff is fully correct.

---

No townie has claimed to be the source of the blue goo. Ergo, mafia is the source of the blue goo.[1]

It is possible that the remaining mafia started with blue goo and somehow gave it to Papa Zito before he was lynched D4. This is a possibility (though it raisess the question of why), but would then require that the mafia have some PR-type power that could target other mafia, used it N1 on PZ, and then never used it again *and still doesn't really change anything since the remaining mafia would gain blue goo N4 from killing farside.*

[1] It was a theory that BBmolla started with the blue goo and PZ got it from him, but BBmolla says no.

[Magua]

@Juls:

Just want to double-triple-verify that there's nothing in your role PM that might indicate that you're immune to blue goo. I know you had the bit about the sticker.

[Magua]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Metal Sonic

The only way I think he was cleared is because of his goo, but obviously the town have been dying with goo on them, so what's stopping him from being scum? That + his gameplay, which I shall try to give explanations for later = scum.

*twitch*

*twitch*

Aronis, against all of my better judgment, I've actually started reading things, and some of those things have been your completed games.

And I note in Lord of the Rings Mafia, where you're scum, that you ask a whole bunch of questions and feign confusion through the game.

And I note in Knights of the Old Republic Mafia, where you're town, that you actually give a shit and have opinions and make statements.

Aaaaaand then I note that in this game, I see you asking questions and

feigning

acting confused. Your post above indicates a complete detachment from the game, which seems so much more like your LotR-game and unlike your KotOR-game.

So.

Tell me what you're thinking. Why should I *not* think you're scum? What's the difference between you in lylo and you now?

[Magua]

Ok, so let's work with this. Goo, etc, aside, why do you think Metal Sonic is scum?

[Magua]

I'll give you a moment to re-read my question. If there's still confusion, feel free to point out to me where the confusion is occurring.

[Magua]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

@Metal Sonic:

Kindly paraphrase everything your role PM says about the yellow goo.

[Magua]

I lied about the dying part. I just assumed that it was a bad negative utility and wanted to sensationalize it

Is there anything in your role that indicates / hints that having the goo itself may be a negative effect?

[Magua]

@Iecerint:

mnemonicdevice was the one with a special result on him. Papa Zito was never tracked.

Spoiler: Starting with blue goo

While it was assumed that farside got the blue goo from jailkeeping Zito N3 (and that's why we lynched Zito D4), it is super highly probable that farside actually received blue goo from being shot N2.

It is thus entirely possible that she gave the goo to Zito N3, which would be luls-ville.

The problem is that if this were true, it would mean the other mafia had goo on D4 Black Light Day. The only ones who had goo then and are still alive are Bulbazak, Cheery, myself, and Metal Sonic.

CheeryDog, myself, and Metal Sonic are all connected by Clyton's tracks and Iecerint's tracks, and neither Clyton nor Iecerint flipped with blue goo, so minus any goo-shenanigans, it can't be either of us.

Bulbazak could be -- this would cause talah to receive blue goo N3, then give it to Cheery N4 and then to Prof Friday N5. We don't know without a Cheery or Prof Friday lynch-flip (NK flip doesn't help).

But I don't find that likely, as Bulbazak has two reports on him -- from talah N3 (which tbf doesn't fully clear him) and from Agar N7. And he'd have yellow goo that didn't show up on farside (but, since we already know blue goo should've shown up on juls but didn't this isn't an insurmountable obstacle).

So my inclination is to ignore it and assume PZ was the killer all along, because nothing else makes sense. Essentially any argument could have "or there are goo shenanigans" added onto it because of the Juls/no blue goo thing. So.

---

Spoiler: My off the wall setup spec that I don't believe anymore and doesn't matter

So I was kicking around a theory that the goo had negative effects, eg, yellow goo makes you macho and blue goo makes you ascetic, because it would explain a lot of things (why the blue goo guy did the kills, the strongman, the reports, etc). Didn't fit why the blue goo guy wouldn't make the kills N3, or how Juls didn't get blue goo.

This was informed by Sonic's "guys don't visit me, I'm like a PGO" claim, but looking over Metal's paraphrased role PM, it just doesn't fit, and I no longer think its a valid idea. Mafia JOAT just seems more likely.

So.

---

I straight up don't think it's Metal Sonic or Cheery Dog.

Looking for the end-of-day lynchcounts, Cheery Dog is the only living person who was on Nacho D2.
The final mafia *must have* bussed mnemonic D3 -- every living player (aside from myself) was on that wagon.
The PZ lynch on D4 is split -- 4 (Bulbazak, myself, Cheery Dog, Prof Friday) on and 3 (Metal Sonic, Aronis, Brian Skies) off.

Aronis has an N6 report, Brian has an N4 report, Bulbazak has an N7 report, and Prof Friday has an N5 report.

On N3, after mnemonic was lynched, the mafia decide to shoot Iecerint instead of Juls, farside, Venmar, or talah (and shoot Juls the next Night over the investigative PRs again). This is the biggest argument I see for the Mafia being concerned about the reports (and killing Agar last Night, ofc). It's not enough that I want to say that Brian and Bulbazak are clear (being unplanned tracks, rather than the planned tracks of Aronis and Friday), but it is something that I am considering.

---

I don't think it's Metal Sonic, role reasons.

I don't think it's Cheery Dog for a number of reasons. He had yellow goo prior to N4, he had a report on N4 that was unplanned, and he was on all three of the Mafia wagons in a row. I could put it on Cheery to bus, but the D2 movement on Nacho really looks like the Mafia were trying to avoid him being lynched -- even PZ jumps off.

I want it to be Aronis with fiber of my body, because I want to believe in a world of justice and goodness. And I really do find his game here to be much more consistent with LotR mafia than KotOR mafia. Two things hold me back:
1) zMM thinking that this is standard town play for him.
2) Aronis has done a lot of dumb attention grabbing stuff, and I have to believe in the cold black place where my heart used to be that mafia would be *not* trying to draw attention to themselves (eg all of his "when we get to lylo talk).

Brian Skies is just so null to me. My eyes glaze over when I try to read his ISO. Nothing about him stands out except for his love of quote striping. I find this to be scummy.

Bulbazak doesn't have much, but at the point where the scum were being decimated, Bulbazak was there clearing things up and doing the opposite of mudslinging. His content seems sparse, but it reads as thought out and I can understand why he says what he says and where he's coming from, and the attitudes he's conveying (eg he believes the PRs and calms people down, goes back on his metal-sonic-must-be-scum push *after* mnemonic and ActionDan flip scum, etc etc etc etc)

Prof Friday...is like the opposite of Aronis. I don't want Prof Friday to be scum, because I enjoy reading his posts. But things seem off. Eg:

All of the scum lynches were pretty much forced: Nacho's slip, talah's follow on mnemonic and his weak claim, Papa Zito's Blue Goo, and Bulbazak was even not on one of those wagons.

Bulbazak was on the exact same wagons that Friday was, making this a weird complaint to have. Rereading the ISO, I had a fonder image in my head of his posts than I got when re-reading them. There's not really anything that I can nail down, but the posts feel like the very middle-of-the-road posting that I believe scum would be going for.

So I woudl rank it as this:
Town (S->W): Metal Sonic------>Cheery Dog-->Bulbazak
Scum (S->W): Prof Friday->Aronis------->Brian Skies

[Magua]

I'm really wanting feedback from (confirmed town) people who have played with Aronis before about whether my read on him is accurate or not. I was hesitant on the TIP lynch because I had seen that thing play out before; is Aronis the same way?

Holy shit, if anyone has any read on Brian, that would also be great.

[Magua]

Hmm wait...

Mod: if they get shoot out in 3-way lylo and mafia shoots a townie does the game immediately end or does the last townie with a gun still get their shot?

Check the explanations spoiler underneath the cards. In shootout, if mafia shoots first they lose. Shootout is town-positive.

The only *bad* lylo card is 2 added, because it cuts our chances in half. All of them are meh-to-town-positive.

[Magua]

I get town alot. Like more then 75% of the time.

The only games I can think of that I got scum in were lotr mafia and a jester nightless modded by wisdom.

So explain to me how your actions here are not like LotR, and are like KotOR.

2 Added is still fine, the game becomes white flag.

Oh, well, then. None of the lylo cards are bad. But, Cheery, more interested in your thoughts on Aronis, Friday, and Brian.

[Magua]

Friday.

I changed my mind and think you're scum.

'Sup.

[Magua]

You're taking it well.

[Magua]

Okay this is important and since magua is not responding.

Mod: what is the order resolution for the following:
Tracker ability
Sending BP vest

Which ability goes first

I didn't see your question.

The transfer resolves at "Misc" on the action resolution list, so after kills. (This is the reason I didn't transfer N2.) So I transferred to talah N3 at "Misc", giving talah goo, and then talah followed bulbazak at "Investigate", giving him the goo.

This is why I claimed to be responsible for both talah's and bulbazak's goo on D4. I transfer to talah on Misc, then talah investigates bulbazak on Investigation.

[Magua]

Scum's being a superdick for making zoraster get a replacement into this game.

[Magua]

Glad that JOAT prediction was right on the money, and that I lost any interest in lynching Aronis because of it. Annoyed that strongman went through both protections, but w/e.

---

@zoraster:

Concerning lylo cards, what would you have done if non-Friday had been lynched and then Friday had no-killed [to get a better lylo card]? If talah's and Juls' roles are removed, scum has no reason to kill if any lylo card besides "normal lylo" is drawn.

---

@BBmolla:

Yeah, yeah, play to win, etc, but even with the ninja/strongman Friday wasn't really going to win this. He would've gotten lynched the previous Day if Sonic hadn't gone and gotten himself modkilled.

---

The timing of BLD and the goo usage previous just really messed up the Mafia, bad.

[Magua]

I disagree on the trackers being townsided in this setup. What made this a curbstomp was the confirmation that after Zito, there was only one Mafia left. If the Mafia could've gotten a town lynch at any time during D2-D4 I think this would've been a much, much closer game. As it was, there was really only one "guilty" (on mnemonic) which he could've probably talked his way out of if he had just claimed "goo remover" instead of "lolcopwithgooremoverthatsalsorandom". The only other useful information was Iecerint being able to track the spread of yellow goo and Agar/Shadoweh essentially proving that there had to be a ninja, which was nice, sure, but not that great in a 25 player game.

Friday's only real hope really would have been to manipulate the target list of the plan so that he would end up being jailkept by farside, and then killing some PR. As it was, he was forced to Ninja-kill which then made it obvious D6+ that something had happened N5, and his Shadoweh kill made it obvious that a strongman effect was in play. If he'd avoided those, he might've had a chance.

I would have just gone to the next day. I wrote the rules for lylo precisely for a reason: it's only those situations where during the start of day there is one more town than scum.

And you may be right, but also consider that means that a Regular event card gets drawn instead. Always On? Dia De Los Muertos? Lots of those things.

Even accounting for the better odds of random lynch, any regular event is better for the mafia than any lylo event (except DDLM and DDLM:Lylo being the same).

[Magua]

Maguaaaaaaaa
:p

I *was* reconsidering you being scum. When you got hammered. But I was really super angry with you. I'm sorry baby. I got you some jewelry, let's go out for a nice dinner, I'll make it all up to you.

I dunno. If MS had y'know, said that Blacklight was for goo instead of letting us guess about it, goo remover would have been in direct contradiction to "generally protown event" which would have been scummy in its own right unless he added that it was also compulsive, a la Fate with Compulsive Framer in Always On.

I probably would've bought a claim of "Compulsive Goo Remover" hook line and sinker, same way I immediately believed talah's claim and never questioned it.

Mafia should take notes. =P

[Magua]

Hah, it's fine.
I just like busting people's balls.

Mafia with the Quickness

Also, now there's *two* games I can throw at you the next time you demand that I claim.

(I'm kind of sad I claimed in this one (although reading the Mafia thread it looks like Friday would've strongman'ed Shadoweh anyways because of Venmar), but I felt that I had to because if I died and flipped Vanilla Townie I could just see the "Oooooh, Magz fakeclaimed doing something so talah and Bulbazak aren't clear!")

Green goo...that's the only complaint I have with this game. Don't remember who mentioned it first?

If having both yellow goo and blue goo does not give you green goo, then zoraster has failed as a mod.

[Magua]

Spoiler: Claim