Mafia with the Quickness 2 GAME OVER!

[Juls]

Vote: Slandaar

[Juls]

This serious business, no time for pleasantries. More votes here please.

[Juls]

So PN, if Imperium is not scum we can kill you next?

[Juls]

Are you a lyncher?

[Juls]

unvote, vote: desp

Taking one for the team. Good on you.

[Juls]

SAD if he thinks he should die, who am I to question that? As far as I know this isn't bastard so no jesters.

[Juls]

I'm not making that assumption. Who does day talk benefit more though?

[Juls]

You tell me why we should not lynch him then?

[Juls]

@SAD, I already said I am not making that assumption but I think scum day talk benefits scum more than town day talk benefits town.

[Juls]

I am well aware of the methods of day talk SAD.

[Juls]

Let's say we had the groups you suggest. The other groups could still talk in the night. What does a town person have to say in the day that can't wait to be said at night? Now ask yourself the same question about scum.

[Juls]

@SK phone posting. Walls suck.

[Juls]

Fair enough.

Unvote

[Juls]

@SK phone posting. Walls suck.

Could you spoiler the wall and bold the part you're referencing?

Yeah that would be even harder. The problem isn't reading the walls, the problem is posting in the box with the wall code included.

[Juls]

@SK 116 - will try

[Juls]

@SAD 123 - Awww and I was just starting to town read you. You can still be town even though your vote is bad.

[Juls]

So basically the people voting me are voting me because changing my opinion is scummy? Alrighty then, I will probably VERY scummy this whole game then.
Now that I am at home and not phone posting let me be a little more verbose about my opinions. So let's take a walk through my thought process.

snip image

i don't joke and i don't gambit. i'm an encryptor and i need to die as soon as possible.

Juls thinks, well, Encryptors must be bad news. Been a while since I have played, don't remember what an encryptor is.

- desp's role needs to be eliminated. Scum communication is lethal in the hands of competent scumteams. If it's daytalk, then we should quicklynch him. Regardless of anything else, that role can't live past Day 1.

Oh, scum day talk...yeah that's no good.

unvote, vote: desp

Taking one for the team. Good on you.

Notice my wording....

Claim: Town Neighborizor

I decided that yeah I could take one for the team and not have day talk.

I am well aware of the methods of day talk SAD.

Another crumb...

(ex 1 neighborhood 2 mason groups 1 scumteam)

Juls now gets a town read on SAD. Hmmm maybe I should rethink this daytalk stuff.

Well for starters I think neighborhoods are VERY strong in being able to identify if there are any scum in there.

And masons can generally talk about their honest thoughts and be able to pull gambits and such?

Good point. I had not considered all this. I initially thought "OMG Scum day talk in a fast game is going to be tough!"

And then I was in the weeds because I voiced an unpopular opinion while thinking I was taking a selfless stance.

Now have fun with that.

[Juls]

Not really but it was relevant.

[Juls]

Uhhh. What

[Juls]

Juls are you town

Yes.

[Juls]

Well that's interesting.

[Juls]

My role PM doesn't specify when I can talk but I asked Zach and he said I can talk until he tells me otherwise.

The reason I claimed is because I knew the way I changed my mind looked bad from the outside. So I figured I would be lynched if I didn't explain my reasoning and I couldn't explain my reasoning without claiming. I guess I just didn't put as much faith in neighbors as I do masons. When I was suggesting giving up day talk I wasn't thinking about there being masons.

[Juls]

So, I'm going to lose interest in this game real fast if you guys keep chatting about games other than this one. I'm not in the cool kids club which makes for a really boring read.

[Juls]

It's null-to-town. Fighting so hard and so publicly doesn't read as scum to me.

[Juls]

So, I'm going to lose interest in this game real fast if you guys keep chatting about games other than this one. I'm not in the cool kids club which makes for a really boring read.

I am questioning sad about his "omg ignore that post" wrt you.

we are voting overlysoul who is actively trying to solicit you to neighbouborize him.

how are you feeling left out?

Imperium, oversoul, and sad are all talking different games and my eyes are glazed over.

[Juls]

Why am I scum Desperado? State your case.

P-edit: didn't say it was.

[Juls]

Might I direct you to my pronoun

<=============

[Juls]

I'm seriously thinking about replacing out. Everyone seems to know the heads of the hydras and it's all very confusing to me. I have to keep looking at the main post. Like who the hell is pie? And talking about the other head of your hydras is making me confused too.

[Juls]

[Juls]

I'm seriously thinking about replacing out. Everyone seems to know the heads of the hydras and it's all very confusing to me. I have to keep looking at the main post. Like who the hell is pie? And talking about the other head of your hydras is making me confused too.

if you replace out (especially when efforts have been made to try to include you) we will have to decide whether or not that you genuinely feel excluded (and I do not know what else to do to get you to feel included but vote you) or if you are throwing your hands up in the air cos your scummates are [redacted].

It's not about being included, it's about being annoyed because I can't form reads when hydras are talking about each other and then other hydras referring to them by their heads names. I don't like to replace out but this game is going to be real difficult for me to follow. Everyone seems to know each other and that's great, but I don't know most of you, I don't know what side-games you are talking about and it's not something I am enjoying at the moment.

[Juls]

@SS316 - the "good on you" was meant to disguise my crumb as if I was saying the first sentence about desp instead of about myself.

[Juls]

In post 198, Juls wrote:
Taking one for the team. Good on you.

i've been simultaneously wanting to policy-scumread juls as well as not get into a horrible 1v1 "one of us has to be lynched and if the first one flips town lynch the other!!!!!"

but like

it sounds in that post like juls is confirming desp as town?? or it feels like a scumslip of some sort

First, please post on your hydra.

Second, this post is very scummy. I hate words like "it feels like" and the extra triple question marks.

[Juls]

it sounds in that post like juls is confirming desp as town?? or it feels like a scumslip of some sort

actually this is a good point

encryptor is generally a scum role. but Juls immediately assumed Desp was town, before he claimed the specifics of what his role did, while at the same time not remembering the encryptor role

however, if Juls was scum she would know Desp is town and since there's prob a scum encryptor she would also know what the role did

brb checking smth

I didn't see how scum would self vote and seem to actually mean it so yeah, I read him as town.

[Juls]

@Imperium 338 - I think desp is town, I think oversoul is more town than not, I think the hydra cc'ing me (feu whatever) is scum. I am sorta going back and forth on helium due to the way they are questioning...can't really quantify that.

Also, I think the hydras are just adding to my confusion is all.

[Juls]

100% scum. i rest her case.

-marquis

Juls, I know like 6 out of the 20 something people. I wouldn't worry about not knowing people.

We only need 1 town person in their neighborhood to make it a town neighborhood imo. That town person would be able to better read their neighbor at that point to figure out their alignment. It is a less impressive inspect.

Marquis: Give me your address and lets go. They could be so useful if we just give them 2 nights! There is no way any scum person would use both shots on their scum partners. NO WAY!

-Beast

p-edit: A signed invitation.

See this is what I am talking about. This is everything that is wrong with hydras. When they talk to each other IN THE GAME it's extremely annoying. A hydra should present itself as a unified person, not two people with disjointed thoughts.

[Juls]

Second, this post is very scummy. I hate words like "it feels like" and the extra triple question marks.

why is that scummy? also, no response to the rest of my case on you?

What exactly would you like me to say to it? I admitted the way I went about it probably looked bad from the outside. I can't change that now. It is what it is. So I guess my "response" to you is yep, I can see where you might have seen me as scum. That doesn't make you correct, it just means my opinion was wrong and it changed.

As to why feu is scummy, it's the way of going about it. It's not saying that "I think this is scummy and thus I will place my vote here", it's saying "hey you guys,

you

should think this is scummy"

[Juls]

So this is a hydra I have created to play with my husband but haven't actually played yet. Would all the hydra mind creating a similar signature? It would probably help me out a lot:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=24127

[Juls]

I honestly don't know why you would use your neighborhood as your hydra QT. There is no guarantee of alignment of the person they invite in.

[Juls]

I legitimately thought Bulba was fishing for reactions and was joking about encrypting

Is desperado a bulbazak alt?

[Juls]

I legitimately thought Bulba was fishing for reactions and was joking about encrypting

Is desperado a bulbazak alt?

It's midnight and I just recently finished a game, playing card, with both of them where both were scum

Brain fart sorry

And people wonder why I am confused.

[Juls]

No, not really.

[Juls]

So this is a hydra I have created to play with my husband but haven't actually played yet. Would all the hydra mind creating a similar signature? It would probably help me out a lot:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=24127

oh. okay then

VOTE: julz

do you see why I am voting you right now?

If you are voting me because I have a hydra then that might quite possibly be the stupidest reason I have ever seen for voting someone. I don't hate hydras, I hate when people hydra badly. And I am not saying all the hydras in this game are doing it. I am having trouble with them because I don't know the heads and most people apparently do. Having their names in the signatures might help me with that.

[Juls]

No, not really.

I have to go to bed and then I am v/la for the weekend.

is your husband on here?

can we talk to him?

Uh, he is asleep and not a member of this game.

[Juls]

What the fuck are you getting at? Just say it...this is absolutely fucking dumb.

[Juls]

I find it weird that julz is having such a hard time trying to figure out hydras when she just stated that her account was a hydra in the first place with her husband.

Look at my join date. Does it look like I am a hydra?
The account I linked is a hydra I have setup for a FUTURE game with my husband.

WHAT THE FUCK IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT?

[Juls]

You guys go right ahead and lynch me if you want but lynch this mother fucking opportunistic idiot here next.

Vote: helium

[Juls]

What exactly would you like me to say to it? I admitted the way I went about it probably looked bad from the outside. I can't change that now. It is what it is. So I guess my "response" to you is yep, I can see where you might have seen me as scum. That doesn't make you correct, it just means my opinion was wrong and it changed.

that doesn't have anything to do with my point

first off, you tried to write all the votes on you off as "changing your opinion" - however, my vote on you had nothing to do with that. my vote on you was because it felt like you were scum going with the flow, and I got the feeling you were misrep'ing it otherwise.

second, rather than refuting ppl's arguments against you, you tried to bring up how selfless you were taking a stance that was "unpopular", which wasn't even true to begin with since several ppl expressed interest in lynching Desp at first.

explain both of those plz. and why did you refer to your stance on Desp as unpopular?

Paragraph 1: My opinion changed based on SADs post about having multiple utilities for town day-talk. I was thinking with my neighborhood-glasses on. I didn't see it as that beneficial to have day talk when I wouldn't know the person's alignment I was talking to anyway. I felt like the votes on me were because I changed my mind. Which it sounds like you are saying the same thing just with the timing element built in.

Paragraph 2: I felt like by giving up daytalk I was making a decision to do so on behalf of the town. That's what I meant by being selfless. When I say my stance was unpopular, I meant amongst the people voting for me.

[Juls]

So this is a hydra I have created to play with my husband but haven't actually played yet. Would all the hydra mind creating a similar signature? It would probably help me out a lot:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=24127

oh. okay then

VOTE: julz

do you see why I am voting you right now?

If you are voting me because I have a hydra then that might quite possibly be the stupidest reason I have ever seen for voting someone. I don't hate hydras, I hate when people hydra badly. And I am not saying all the hydras in this game are doing it. I am having trouble with them because I don't know the heads and most people apparently do. Having their names in the signatures might help me with that.

I think you know most of the people in this game and I am calling you out.

so fuck that shit.

I personally would rather lynch the usedcarsalesman but you won't even throw him under a bus.

the only thing that is working in your favour right now is that no1 slipped that they know who you are. except for overlysoul's strong pickup.

I have been on hiatus from mafia for about a year and a half until just very recently (about 2 months ago).
The people I " know" in this game are: Oversoul, Hoopla, Nacho, Metal Sonic and Nobody Special. Four of which are because I am in ongoing games with them and Hoopla from past games. I am familiar with the names of Saint Kerrigan, SleepyKrew, Haylen, and possibly Mastin(?). My husband also recently finished a game with F16 so I am slightly familiar with the name. HOWEVER, most of those people are NOT on their mains. THEY ARE ON HYDRAS. If people could put their names in their signatures that would probably be super useful to me.

NOW HOW THE FUCK IS THAT SCUMMY?

[Juls]

goddamn it

UNVOTE:

Oh, tired of being an opportunistic scum are we?

[Juls]

I'm going to bed. If you guys lynch me before I wake up, please don't forget what I said about helium.

[Juls]

OH MY FUCKING GOD...who the fuck is titus? I literally hate this game right now.

Seriously, @Hoopla, please tell this person that I am not some person named Titus. You are probably the only person who knows me before recently.

Now I am really going to bed.

[Juls]

Look guys, I am not saying I don't get why you saw my flip-flop as scummy, I do. I am pretty resigned to my lynch and that's fine. It will be a lesson I learn and play better next time. I don't find myself under suspicion very often in the game of mafia as either alignment but when everyone piles on I get a little flustered. Especially when I am town and my only defense is, I did something dumb. I will be at work all day then have somewhere to go after. I will post from my phone but won't be able to respond with a word count that is probably sufficient enough for you until probably late tonight or early tomorrow.

That being said, when I do get lynched! please look at who is being the most opportunistic and that is helium

Other things to address
@Skrew - why would I need to crumb from the get go as a neighbor? People I neighborize will confirm that ability. I crumbed more to explain my vote than to confirm my role.

@helium - I keep this line of communication open to show how ridiculous of an argument you are making so let me talk real slow for you ( well read it real slow ok?). I am Juls. I joined back in 2008. My husband is Moratorium. He also joined back in 2008. The hydra, Julatorium was created in May of 2014. I don't "not understand" hydras. I generally do not like playing with them unless the present themselves as one person with the occasional "hydra head A thinks this". In this game, people are addressing questions and talking to hydra heads specifically. They are also posting on their mains. Not all but some. The fact there are like 6 hydras in this game are compounding the problem.

[Juls]

Juls, why did you feel the need to crumb the reasoning for a vote, and why did you claim when you did?

Because it was relevant to my reasoning. And I saw the wheels of the wagon rolling and I figured I should get it out of the way so we could focus on lynching scum since we don't have a lot of time. I guess I didn't anticipate how severe of a mistake people thought I made.

[Juls]

And why are you resigned to your lynch now?

Do you see a counter wagon?

[Juls]

And why are you resigned to your lynch now?

Do you see a counter wagon?

Why aren't you trying to make one?
Eh whatever

I'm voting helium and stating my case. Other than thinking helium is a dumb dumb, do you not see it as opportunistic?

[Juls]

@Feu et Vol: what color is your role? Green, red, purple, etc.

[Juls]

OK. So they jumped on my wagon based not on my screw up surrounding the encryptor claim but because I have a hydra account. Then when they get called on the carpet for it they unvote because I implore the town to lynch them when I flip town. And then immediately start calling me town. Yeah, if they aren't scum I probably need to not play mafia anymore. Promise me when I flip town you will lynch them?

[Juls]

that was mollie.

this is me.

The hydra dissonance defense

[Juls]

that was mollie.

this is me.

The hydra dissonance defense

yes.....

...and.....? what of it?

An excuse to change your reads on a dime. Keep doing it, it only helps my case on you.

[Juls]

I just gave a scum motivation...read please.

[Juls]

Hydra dissonance is an easy way for scum to change their reads without a proper and valid argument for doing so. If I were to change my reads, I would be expected to say why I changed my reads. You didn't explain why the read was changed (until I called you on it), you used the hydra dissonance defense. So explain why your other head converted their scum read to a town read on me after I asked the town to vote you when I flipped town. And for bonus points, do it without saying "I don't know why my other head" said/did.

And holy shit, why the fuck would you hydra when you can't communicate with your partner? This is a big cluster fuck of hydras if I have ever seen one.

[Juls]

I called you out on your choice of defense, not the actual read change. Also, I am saying you will use this defense to change your reads on a dime.

[Juls]

And thanks for explaining your other heads read change on me. It was riveting. Will you use more hydra dissonance defense when you change your vote back to me since that's what you are setting up here.

P-edit: hydras are fine when done correctly.

[Juls]

You defended yourself to Jason by saying "that was mollie". That is what I have a problem with.

[Juls]

And thanks for explaining your other heads read change on me. It was riveting. Will you use more hydra dissonance defense when you change your vote back to me since that's what you are setting up here.

P-edit: hydras are fine when done correctly.

When you "cool off" try explaining this. It should be a hoot.

[Juls]

And thanks for explaining your other heads read change on me. It was riveting.

$L#!%$#@!!#

you're terrible

Awww shucks, thanks.

[Juls]

What should be the other way around? That's fine if you guys want to lynch me just lynch them next.

[Juls]

And @not, that's not the only reason I am pushing them. Reference their hop on and off my wagon.

[Juls]

And since I am handing out reads prior to my imminent hanging, I actually think sugoku is town. They have taken the most reasoned approach to my play. My CC is likely scum but I am not 100% certain of that. Setting up a tit-for-tat CC seems an odd choice unless there is a third neighborizor. I lean town on Desperado but don't like his lazy vote of me. SAD is also likely town. As is Oversoul for being some blatant in requesting access to the neighborhood. Everyone else is unknown.

P-edit: absolutely and I hope that's real.

[Juls]

Yeah I can see where that might seem whiny. The truth is I felt like the girl at a party where everyone knows each other and is having a great time and I am having a hard time breaking into the conversation. I'm feeling more in my groove now though.

[Juls]

Because it was relevant to my reasoning. And I saw the wheels of the wagon rolling and I figured I should get it out of the way so we could focus on lynching scum since we don't have a lot of time. I guess I didn't anticipate how severe of a mistake people thought I made.

but you were voting me

who you thought was town

so...?

You were voting you too so....

[Juls]

And since I am handing out reads prior to my imminent hanging, I actually think sugoku is town. They have taken the most reasoned approach to my play. My CC is likely scum but I am not 100% certain of that. Setting up a tit-for-tat CC seems an odd choice unless there is a third neighborizor. I lean town on Desperado but don't like his lazy vote of me. SAD is also likely town. As is Oversoul for being some blatant in requesting access to the neighborhood. Everyone else is unknown.

P-edit: absolutely and I hope that's real.

now i'm just leaning town because my vote on you is lazy? lol.

I didn't see how scum would self vote and seem to actually mean it so yeah, I read him as town.

@Imperium 338 - I think desp is town, I think oversoul is more town than not, I think the hydra cc'ing me (feu whatever) is scum. I am sorta going back and forth on helium due to the way they are questioning...can't really quantify that.

i was lazily voting you during both of these comments so what's up?

Why are you arguing over town vs leaning town?

[Juls]

/sigh

I was wrong to vote you. I have explained that.

[Juls]

Why are you arguing over town vs leaning town?

because it's a meaningful distinction that you can't justify?

I think you are town but I don't like your vote on me from a standpoint of I hate that someone who I think is town thinks I am scum.

[Juls]

Neighborhoods are open

[Juls]

No one is doubting I am a neighborizor, they are doubting my alignment

[Juls]

@Feu et Vol: what color is your role? Green, red, purple, etc.

Please address this

[Juls]

Why did you take the question out of your quote?

[Juls]

i need to know if desp is ok with me answering first

-marquis

Answer.

[Juls]

No, it's blue. I am satisfied with your answer

[Juls]

Helium, are you going to be explaining your change in reads on me anytime soon?

[Juls]

i'm not mollie, you'll have to wait for her

So no then? Why do you think your other head changed their mind? What is your opinion of me?

[Juls]

Desperado. How do you feel about my opinion on Juls? Is it convincing?

not really. i'd be more convinced if you had information on what juls does with claims as town and scum. do you think you've assembled a representative sample that should be convincing?

Good lord, I don't even know this information. I would be interested to know myself. Too long since I have paled to remember.

[Juls]

@Juls. I understand that but your point about the change in reads was discounted but you continued to push it on a house of cards of "You're scum so the hydra dissonance is fake and scum motivated"

This is not about dissonance, this is about the read change from mollie(?) as soon as I said when I flip town lynch helium

[Juls]

Hoopla, I'm likely not neighborizing you if that's what you are trying to do

[Juls]

This was last night....

[Juls]

Haven't read the last few pages. Will catch up later today when I wake up.

[Juls]

I wouldn't call hydra dissonance town or scum, you've got two people playing as one. They are going to have their own opinions and their own arguments. They are going to clash every so often. It also depends on which role/alignment each person favours. There are too many confounding variables to consider this anything but null.

I am clearly not being clear so I will try to be more clear. Hydra dissonance is expected. Two people will have differing views no matter what their alignment. However, when one head of a hydra, comes into thread, changes a read and when asked about that read says that the other read was from his/her partner so it is ok to change it, then that is using hydra dissonance as an excuse to change reads back/forth. helium-3 was asked why the read changed in 12 hours. Instead of explaining the reason behind the read change (that there were posts in the 12-hour time frame which the original player did not see, etc.), antihero used the excuse that that was mollie and this is me. The problem I have with this is that he didn't explain the read change but instead just blamed it on his not agreeing with the other head.

TL;DR: Hydra dissonance - fine, Hydra dissonance as a defense - not fine.

See I had alarm bells go off when he said he didn't expect helium you think it was real. Upon rereading, the gambit was aimed at Juls (dumb thing to do), so I want to know why helium would know it was fake but Juls would fall from it?

To be fair, I figured the dayvig was fake but I kinda hoped it was real in that it would be a good thing to do just to get a read on where people were coming from with their suspicions.

also I don't think Juls cares about the bind we're in deadline-wise
See: her thinking about (threatening to?) replacing out

It's because I care that I was considering replacing out. Here I am under a ton of suspicion and I am getting very confused about all the hydras so it makes it even harder to defend myself. But whatever, I feel like you are dead-set on being scum anyway so there's no sense in continually trying to convince you otherwise. The fact that you haven't even shown a hint of pause in your scumread of me makes me suspicious of you. Like this is my biggest sticking point with you for me. I want to read you as town and I have seen some town sentiments coming from you, but your tunnel is bad.

i am lurking because lurking is safe.

Is Metal Sonic this way in every game? He is quickly moving to a policy lynch for me.

---
Oversoul's 764 feels town

helium's 767 is not town

And all the following banter back and forth supports those reads for me.

Juls are you town

Yes.

I have my reasons for not believing this (and no, I'm not going to tell you what they are).

VOTE: Juls

Oh fantastic! Someone else to lynch when I flip town. Tell me, why is it that you didn't vote me in 826, instead of waiting until 836?

Not_Mafia - I'm not sure what you are asking here but my comments in 632 was me talking about a different subject (the read change from me being scum to me being town) by mollie last night. There are two different threads of scumminess for me on this slot 1) the read change and 2) the use of the hydra dissonance defense. Now we can add a third which is the oversoul/helium argument which very much makes oversoul more townie and helium more scummy.

oh yeah about julz: I have played with 2 of titus's alts on here and julz reminds a lot of titus. I don't think it is anymore cos titus doesn't freak out to that degree when I catch her out. but whatevs. also lean town on julz but I wanna reread our exchanges.

Or, you could not think it because I JOINED in 2008 and this titus person joined in 2013. Unless you think this titus person was holding on to this account to come into this game 6 years later just to throw you off. So is this the reason you are claiming as the reason from switching me from scum to town? If so, I am still extremely happy with my vote. If not, please explain your read change.

I was the 1 who called you a sleazy car salesman and i am the 1 who got into it with julz. I worked all day yesterday and I am getting ready to go in today.

Actually I have managed to piss off both of you so I am doing a good job I think.


OK, I am caught up. I need to probably dig into not_mafia and jason a little more since those were the two mentioned during my catch up that I didn't have a good read on. For now, I am good with my vote. Sorry for the wall.

[Juls]

I am not pushing it. People keep not understanding what I mean, including you so I keep trying to explain it. Can someone who does understand what I am saying explain it better for me?

[Juls]

"I have my

reasons

for not believing this (and no, I'm

not going to tell you

what they are)."

The bolded implies you have something role related.

[Juls]

Well, at least my lynch will give you guys a shit-ton of information so I am perfectly fine with it at this point. I do have a question into Zachrulez about if my neighborhood would stay open even if I was dead but haven't heard back yet. That's the only reason I could see you all maybe wanting to keep me around for at least 2 nights to possibly create a little mini-neighborhood for two people.

[Juls]

Got a response. The answer is yes, my neighborhood would exist beyond my death.

[Juls]

I understand what Feu is saying, everyone is defending hydra dissonance. I am not talking about hydra dissonance, I am talking about hydra dissonance

as a defense

. The bold is the important part.

[Juls]

"I have my

reasons

for not believing this (and no, I'm

not going to tell you

what they are)."

The bolded implies you have something role related.

Very observant! No other comment at this time. (Also, stop rolefishing, as has been said.)

Carry on.

I'm not rolefishing. This is a very important point of distinction because if it is role-related, you should have voted me in your #826 post. If it is not role related then you are claiming that you have read something in me, therefore you should have no problem sharing what that is.

[Juls]

Why the change from scum to town in 12 hours... and why

1) nothing to back up your origional claim he is scum
2) nothing to back up why you suddenly switch him to town

VOTE: helium-3

that was mollie.

this is me.

THE DEFENSE is the problem, not the dissonance....holy fuck, how hard of a concept is this?

[Juls]

i still want the question answered for me.

not that i don't trust you

but because i shouldn't trust you

-marquis

Then ask it privately, I seriously doubt the mod will answer in thread.

[Juls]

And you are claiming Neighborizor so why not ask it privately and report your findings. If I were the mod I would not entertain hypotheticals in thread because it can be used as a scum tactic.

[Juls]

Marquis, if I am so obvious, what is your excuse going to be when I flip town?

[Juls]

I am done arguing about this. I was calling them scum before that. I have explained ad nauseam what I meant, I won't even discuss it further. It was not the biggest scum tell on them for me, it was just adding to it. When you lynch me, please go back and look at every person misrepresenting my attempts to explain what I meant as me "pushing it".

The end. I will not discuss hydra dissonance further.

[Juls]

I have fought. But people keep voting me so I will keep fighting right up until you do lynch me. It will be YOUR (collective town) responsibility to go back through the day and see the disingenuous people pushing me. Pay close attention to those who are defending me as well because there is likely at least one scum in that bunch who doesn't want to touch my wagon with a ten foot pole. It will likely be the ones who believed me beyond a shadow of a doubt, not the ones who have struggled to read me. I have admitted that I can see where people thought I was scummy. I have no delusions that I will make it very late in this game. In fact, I strongly suggest not keeping me around longer than maybe 3 days max so we don't have to revisit questions surrounding my day one play and lose. The "when" you lynch me doesn't necessarily only apply to today.

[Juls]

juls it's a trick question

why??

because i won't need an excuse to lynch scum!!!!!!!!!! ty ty

-marquis

OK, but lets say you are wrong. Answer the question, what will be your excuse when I flip town?

[Juls]

Why does someone need an excuse to have mislynched someone?

They need to explain why I am so "obvious scum" when I am not.

[Juls]

Where was it your idea?

[Juls]

And my answer wouldn't matter because my alignment would be known. Your answer feeds into determining your alignment. It is not a dumb question. It just shows that you are unwilling to answer.

[Juls]

The more people talk, the more information town will have when I get lynched.

It's clear I don't fit in with this group. I don't know if that is due to scum jumping on me and riding me or if it's just personality conflict. Either way, I think my presence is hurting town. Therefore, if I am not lynched, I will choose my target and then replace out during the night.

[Juls]

Fuck, even my decision to replace out is argued over. I thought it would be better to pick someone so that they didn't have to make a snap decision without getting fully caught up. I'm trying to have as little impact on the flow of the game as possible.

[Juls]

I've let Zach know my intentions and asked to have someone start reading up. If I don't get lynched and he has a replacement who is ready to go when night gets here they can pick their target.

[Juls]

It's not strategic, I'm just really not meshing with this group at all.

[Juls]

Thank you imperium for understanding where I am coming from. I hate replacing out but I just feel like I am detracting from the actual game because I don't think the same as people here. We have literally argued more about the way I think then the actual merits of my original bad choice of voting Desp. I almost /out'd when I saw all the hydras, but I let the excitement of a fast game win out. I have apologized to the mod. I feel really shitty about it because I like zach and Sotty a lot.

[Juls]

Alright, out of respect for Zach/Sotty, I am going to try and stick around. Imperium/Saint Kerrigan did make me feel a whole hell of a lot better. It's not the first time I have went off the deep end in a game and likely won't be the last. I am sure some of you will think it is/was a ploy. It wasn't. But I can't stop you from factoring that into your read of me. I'll try to not be quite so sensitive going forward.

[Juls]

Summary of the last few pages for me
-I agree SKs vote on SS seemed manufactured. The lack of real scum hunting is concerning too because I seem to remember SK as a strong presence in past games.
-Tammy vs SKrew is probably town vs. town, I get nothing alignment indicative out of it except SKrew still being unwaivering in my scumminess. I'm not saying everyone should think I am town but I think everyone should at least be questioning their read on me to some extent. SKrew has consistently stuck to his guns with his fingers in his ears going "lalalalala"
-I think there are points on not_mafia that sound reasonable but I need to independently verify them and I am loathe to reread that portion of the game. Since the points are coming from some of my stronger town reads I am willing to sheep them if need be.
-When I feel like someone is scum as strongly as I did about helium earlier in the game I am rarely able to change my mind. I am willing to abandon the push today though. This is more of a note to myself to not forget my early feelings but re-evaluate tomorrow.

For now, SK seems like the best wagon.

Unvote, Vote: Saint Kerrigan

[Juls]

METAL SONIC - CAN YOU GIVE ANY ACTUAL THOUGHTS ON THE GAME? THANKS.

molliehydra -> town

pieguy hydra-> town

myself -> town

nobody special -> town

i would call you town too but then while skimming your iso it gave me lots of doubts ugh (read: scumtells).

i don't know how you play tammy so i dont have meta to work on but this is legit

desperado -> good dude

saint kerrigan -> scummy

jasont -> scum

sleepykrew -> butt

You don't even mention the person you are voting for as scum?

[Juls]

*snip*

claim: super VT

why the fuck did my slot claim???

This didn't happen. Why did you make this post?

[Juls]

Hoopla's 1181 reads as genuine although, I agree a list of reads would be nice through whatever post you are at.

[Juls]

helium, cut her some fucking slack. The game has went almost 50 pages in 3 days. It's not like anyone has a full handle on this game. This "pushing" is not gaining information, you are just trying to annoy this shit out of her until she snaps. That is not a town or scum condition, it is a human condition.

[Juls]

helium, cut her some fucking slack. The game has went almost 50 pages in 3 days. It's not like anyone has a full handle on this game. This "pushing" is not gaining information, you are just trying to annoy this shit out of her until she snaps. That is not a town or scum condition, it is a human condition.

oh?

if hoopla's getting "annoyed" she can bite me. asking for reads and scrutinizing said reads in a mafia game is not an unreasonable or outrageous request at all.

It's the way you're doing it. I don't know if you are annoying her but you're annoying me for certain.

[Juls]

Town or scum, trying to push someone until they get pissed off is just a stupid way to play the game.

Hoopla can take care of herself, I am more concerned with the amount of spamming you are doing that is not adding anything to the game from what I can tell. It will make the game even harder for those who aren't caught up to get caught up or stay engaged in the game. I forget who said it but whoever said that spamming just because it is a "quick" game is not adding to the game was right.

So I am asking you to chill out a bit. Quality over quantity.

[Juls]

Mod: I am voting Saint Kerrigan

[Juls]

Where does he publicly dislike the role? That's more damning than never using it. Do you have a link for that discussion?

[Juls]

Unvote, Vote: Not_Mafia

admitted sheeting of my town reads.

[Juls]

Sheeping*. Fucking iPhone

[Juls]

I'm not opposed to a shos lynch either. I'm so lost about not_mafia that I can't get anything from his claims/reads. He's just not someone who has pinged me either way. I agree shos entry post felt forced and his fake-claim was meh.

unvote

for now

I will definitely be back tonight and will place a vote with more of a read behind it. Seems my scum reads aren't happening. I'd like to say I feel better about SK but I don't really. I mean her big post was fine but nothing in there that made me go...yeah ok maybe she's town. I also still don't like the helium slot but it's based mainly on my early read and I have not been able to filter the noise since. I find myself tuning them out.

[Juls]

I am not entriely sold on this and the paranoid part of me makes me think Hoopla told him to claim VT in their scum QT with daytalk.

This should not be forgotten in the event of a hoopla/not_mafia scum flip.

[Juls]

^autolynch
And I am very happy with that claimed shot

vote: shos (L-2)

[Juls]

It's not a hammer, why are you freaking out?

[Juls]

Stop claiming to Shos threats. He is likely just fishing for claims.

[Juls]

lol it appears that there are only 4 people/25? that I haven't playeed with ^_^;;

I advise watching nachomamma's hydra for scum as well, guys. I don't remember nachoscum being that way, and I remember nachotown being WAAAY more active. so it might be because of the hydra with Tammy, but still, even tammy's meta doesn't fit right, that slot may very well be scum

I don't even think Nacho has been in here yet.

[Juls]

but shos is genuinely trying to figure out who to vengekill and not in a scummy way and under so much pressure and under so little time. like I don't think he believes that I can truly turn this around. and he isn't fighting it really.

Or he's trying to see how many people he can get to claim.

[Juls]

(that was just a gambit btw)

To what is this referring

[Juls]

So are you saying SleepyKrew and I are scum since we were on both wagons? Otherwise I don't get what you are saying.

[Juls]

So are you saying SleepyKrew and I are scum since we were on both wagons? Otherwise I don't get what you are saying.

guilty conscience much? you don't get what i was saying because i wasn't saying anything.

What analysis did you glean from that then. Why post it if you have no conclusion? You acted if there is some obvious thing to see there and I don't see it.

[Juls]

yo juls why are you so freaked out by me posting colored in vcs?

it's fucking weird.

I'm not freaked out. It's just like what you describe. Grunt work. No analysis just "hey look at this townie thing I did that says something super obvious but I'm not going to do the analysis, I did this other townie thing, see?"

[Juls]

Reads develop. I could care less if you think I was "freaked out". My point was that you said the game was easy mode because of this info so I am telling you that it's not if that's the analysis you got from your VC regurgitation. In fact, I interpreted it exactly opposite. I.e, we are on the wrong track, not easy mode

[Juls]

Sheep you into not voting? Done.

[Juls]

So, Jason page 66 was bad but I think his defenses since have looked very town. My reads are flip-flopping a lot today . I like Hoopla so far and I was leery of her yesterday. I also am not a fan of Sleepy and sugoku today. Because from a town POV, his responses have been sufficient but they keep pushing and his points about SleepyKrew hand-waving that Jason is scum but not providing a case are good points. I should go ahead and out that I neighborized sugoku and now I am thinking that may have been a bad choice. Not sure how to proceed for future neighbors now.

Also, I can see Slandaar and Sugoku as partners based on the post where sugoku doesn't want to split the wagons.

Also, Hoopla is likely confirmed town because she got not_mafia out of the noose with her statistics.

[Juls]

Vote: Slaandar

[Juls]

Crap...

Vote Slaandar

[Juls]

1. Because I was town reading then yesterday but really hate the push on Jason today . I don't see any hint of them considering what is being said and instead they are digging their heels in and tunneling.

2. Yes, but it came off as town. She is clear for me until she's not.

[Juls]

Mod: V/LA all day tomorrow

[Juls]

@Desp - yes that's the only thing making me uneasy that's why I am not voting them. Also, sure , anything can be faked but right now I am interpreting it as a town move. I have also been satisfied with her contributions thus far today.

[Juls]

Unvote, Vote: Nobody Special

Don't have time to get into sudoku vs Jason right now but I'm not liking that 1821 post.

[Juls]

Popping in, just skimmed the past two pages but didn't we discuss zach not liking cops? Intent to L-1 or hammer tomorrow. If he is scum sugoku is also scum, I already noted that association earlier and this copping strengthens it.

[Juls]

Yet you don't hammer....

Unvote, Vote: Slaandar

[Juls]

OH nevermind you did....

[Juls]

Vote: Sogoku

I tried to neighborize hoopla

[Juls]

desp what do you think about jason and his reaction to my push on him?

fwiw, I agree with slandaar scum at this point, but I'd rather not have a scenario where we divide our attention between 2 scum and they get out of it

Also, I can see Slandaar and Sugoku as partners based on the post where sugoku doesn't want to split the wagons.

I am very ok with a Slandaar lynch, but I prefer to lynch Jason if possible.

After I posted 1771, they posted 5 posts in our private topic in a span of 30 minutes defending/hedging their read on jason.

Also, they were dead set on jason yesterday and came in with this:

vote: SOL

we agree on mastin scum

Where did that jason read go? Especially since the last thing they did before slaandar started "investigating" them is this:

also jason x Slandaar team makes a shitton of sense given scumteam has daytalk - they could have easily invented this claim as a gambit and then ppl would rely on jason's experience with Zach.

[Juls]

I think SAD is scum actually. I think that vote on Slandaar was a bus.

Then why are you voting SOL?

[Juls]

Vote: Sugoku

Same case, different day. This game is stupid.

[Juls]

(ex 1 neighborhood 2 mason groups 1 scumteam)

@SAD was this a crumb that you knew this information?

[Juls]

Vote: Sugoku

Same case, different day. This game is stupid.

why is this game stupid? i'm feeling pretty great about it actually

Then you must be scum.

[Juls]

Since no one is listening to me AT ALL I am going to list who I think scum from most to least and then I am pretty much done with this game until Sugoku is lynched.

1. Sugoku - strong associations to Slaandar and completely dropped case on Jason to chase a Slice of Life lynch. Not to mention, I neighborize Jason and they no longer appear to have that massive scum read.
2. Feu et Vol - my CC who hasn't been confirmed at all. Only person calling them uber town is my friend Sugoku.
3. SKrew - mainly cause the claim. I think the lack of a case on Jason is trolling.
4. Desperado - that scum arrogance saying he was happy with game. Feel like that's a post he wants to point back to post game. Also, the analysis free VCA.
5. Helium-3 - early game scum read but haven't got many feeling either way lately.
6. Ser Arthur Dayne - early town read. Not sure how I feel about him right now but lean town.
7. jasonT1981 - lean town based on Sugoku fight.
8. Perpetual nonsense - the claim.
9. Oversoul - strong town read most of the game.
10. Speedy Saki - mainly because someone said he was ns's mason buddy

[Juls]

Your read literally went away over night.

[Juls]

I hate to break it to you but your PoE list is shit that has netted one scum who you didn't vote until it was obvious that he was getting lynched based on two intent to hammers. But I imagine that's by design. You at least have an opportunity to question Jason in the neighborhood but instead you are talking to him as if you are both confirmed town.

[Juls]

I am not going to convince you that you are scum. So....Care to explain why you believe feu is obvtown then?

[Juls]

Oh you've been setting up to flip your read on me for two days. As soon as someone shows the slightest bit of interest in my lynch you will be there.

[Juls]

Wait what...why is Speed Saki nobody specials partner?

[Juls]

Oh, never mind I see it.

[Juls]

You were neighborized by them N1 correct? Did SS happen to out the fact that they were masons with NS?

[Juls]

Shocker.

[Juls]

That Nobody Special died.

[Juls]

No, there are 2 people at the top of my list. One was definitely there....so....

[Juls]

I neighborized Jason hoping to get some reads off interactions between the two in private. So far they are best buds.

[Juls]

So SS outs in the neighborhood that he is masons with NS. nobody Special dies and you don't even think to suspect Feu?


Guys, I am handing you two scum on a platter here!

[Juls]

Unvote, Vote: Feu

If that isn't some damning evidence against Feu Then I don't know how to play this game anymore.

Sugoku is next.

[Juls]

No Sugoku night 1, hoopla night 2, Jason night 3

[Juls]

But then NS died and you didn't question....

[Juls]

And you read through those 80 posts in this short time and were extremely certain.

What about when you hit that claim post. What went through your head?

[Juls]

You guys should have killed me...that's a bad slip.

[Juls]

Where SS claimed mason

[Juls]

Stalling...

[Juls]

LOL but you would have already seen that NS died. How could you not go "oh no, feu is scum". NS wasn't the obvious night kill target.

[Juls]

speed saki with Nobody Special.

[Juls]

Why didn't you say PN was in there earlier?
What were Feu's reasons for his neighbroizations.

[Juls]

Town (S->W): Imperium, Helium3, Fue Et Vol, Juls, Desperado, Ser Arthur Dayne, Perpetual Nonsense, Speedy Saki, Hoopla, Oversoul, Nobody Special
Scum are among: {Slice of Life, SleepyKrew, Slandaar, Not_Mafia, JasonT1981, SaintKerrigan, Shos}

*Mod note: Quote fixed

Hmm... I still see PN in your town reads. Why are you pushing SKrew over either Feu or PN? Don't you think that would have been good information for town? Or at least in MY neighborhood for later?

[Juls]

Mod: please fix quote tags

[Juls]

My work here is done. Please lynch Sugoku or Feu while I sleep.

[Juls]

lets do it. Me vs Feu!

Everyone

pick a side, me or feu. Lynch the more scummy one. If you lynch me, kill feu and Sugoku. If you lynch Feu and he isn't scum, lynch me.

[Juls]

Also, everyone should be highly suspicious of having 2 TOWN neighborizors given all the flips.

[Juls]

So it's me vs feu today.

[Juls]

Fuck you SAD...I have given you two scum. Sugoku slipped and your fucking head is in the sand.

[Juls]

Sorry, that was out of line but this is bull shit. What do you think we are all town?

[Juls]

If you're talking about the how they didn''t go "gee, maybe PN/Fue is scum" then that actually might make sense.

This is the slip.

It's brilliant actually:

step 1: neighborize Saki
Step 2: grab someone to frame (PN)
Step 3: neighborize another scum in case it backfires. That way the neighborhood will continue on..problem is, that scum slipped.

[Juls]

I'm putting my money where my mouth is. If you believe my case, lynch Feu. If not, lynch me...simple as that.

[Juls]

oh also: I can't find any scum motivation for scum Juls to request a 1v1 like she's doing here. given the current gamestate, it's p obvious in a Feu v. Juls 1v1, Juls would lose. it doesn't make much sense as scum to request a 1v1 you can't win, and again, I love her conviction.

Prove that I would lose. As long as you two are lynched afterwards. I feel like I have made a pretty strong argument about you two. I still have no fucking clue why you thing Feu is town. Like zero. You should feel the opposite based on Nobody Specials lynch.


Somebody explain to me again why these uber townie people like Feu and Sugoku are living night after night? Scum decided to kill NS? Really? The only way they kill NS is if they knew he was a mason. How would they know that? The role cop died. He likely found imperium and hoopla on day one and two before he died.

[Juls]

When I say "jason can wait a day" it implies that I will take into account the then-current gamestate and re-evaluate. I don't line up lynches, as only (generally) scum does that.

What's your point Saki? I voted him because the I don't do this cause only scum would do this comment. Plus earlier he claimed info on me that did not exist.

[Juls]

Yeah, I usually don't look for crumbs too hard unless I am scum. So there's that. I'm not backing off. Why do you think NS was night killed?

[Juls]

Fuck yeah I am concerned. He was a fucking town mason who was barely playing nod got night killed. I am also town so yeah, it concerns me. There is only one reason for his night kill and that is scum knew. I was wrong about NS. Wasn't the first time I have voted a town person, won't be the last. See, it's called scum hunting. You should try it some time.

[Juls]

Neighborized Jason because I wanted to see interactions between he and Sugoku. I have already said that.

[Juls]

also... i dont think they were mason sniping. they were highly likely PR sniping. how do you explain imperium's death n1?

also i strongly believe it is the fault of several town members who constantly allude to NS "softing something"

I already explained imperium's death. They had a day role cop. Likely why hoopla died too. Also if they are PR hunting, why is uber town Feu alive?

P-edit: I deduced that before he got in there. Him being there has made it more obvious.

[Juls]

i dunno, they have the same PR as you... why are you still alive?

Day 1. They are still hoping to lynch me I presume and probably because the fact that no matter how hard I beat my drum, nobody is listening.

[Juls]

This high school fucking drama all over this thread.

[Juls]

So lynch me then. Just promise when I flip town you will lynch Feu and Sugoku.

[Juls]

I am a mother and a wife...I'm used to repeating myself.

[Juls]

VOTE: Juls

Called Saki town. So boss.

Huh?

[Juls]

I feel like I am playing Joe Schmo mafia and I am the only one not in on the joke.

[Juls]

Jason is likely town.

Jason, please give your reads on Sugoku and Feu before.

[Juls]

Me me for that matter

[Juls]

Me me for that matter

And me...this ipad is possessed

[Juls]

I want your Jason case.

[Juls]

Jason and sugoku are not scum together imo (not that anyone cares about my opinion)