Mafia with the Quickness 2 GAME OVER!

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: SleepyKrew

There can only be one SK.

With that out of the way:
- Three negative town roles already claimed. I'm not sure yet what to think about that.
- desp, please clarify your role. Does it allow daytalk for scum, or does it control all scum talk?
- desp's role needs to be eliminated. Scum communication is lethal in the hands of competent scumteams. If it's daytalk, then we should quicklynch him. Regardless of anything else, that role can't live past Day 1.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ desp: wanted to see your reply to my question first. However, if there's more than one of you, then quicklynching you right now is not the best idea, since it will not immediately eliminate the threat.

In case it's not obvious:
@all: Any other encryptors should claim asap. As in immediately.

[SaintKerrigan]

my role pm implies that multiple encryptors might exist,

and if one is alive daytalk is available for all QTs

if you think i should die why bother rvsing sleepy?

The bolded is why killing desp right now isn't helpful. We need to kill all of them to get rid of the effect. Otherwise we're just feeding scum a free lunch.

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: SleepyKrew

There can only be one SK.

With that out of the way:
- Three negative town roles already claimed. I'm not sure yet what to think about that.
- desp, please clarify your role. Does it allow daytalk for scum, or does it control all scum talk?
- desp's role needs to be eliminated. Scum communication is lethal in the hands of competent scumteams. If it's daytalk, then we should quicklynch him. Regardless of anything else, that role can't live past Day 1.

wat 3 negative role claims

are you taking sad's cc srs?

VOTE: kerriganVOTE:

Yes, I did take it seriously at the time. Based on my skim I'm pretty sure now that it actually wasn't serious, but at the time it looked serious enough for me to consider the possibility.

@ Sugoku: That's a rather quick judgment of my content, given that it's still the first real-day of the game and some people have reasons for not being able to post as frequently (i.e. work). At the time, I believed Desp was the only enabler, and since I believe scum daytalk is tremendously powerful I felt it would be in our (the town's) best interests to get rid of his role ASAP. With all the subsequent claims, I no longer think lynching Desp solely for his role is a good idea. (Also, you seriously underestimate the power of scum daytalk. )

Unvote: SleepyKrew

Actual analysis of the happenings so far to follow later, after I've made some delicious mac & cheese.

[SaintKerrigan]

So I meant to have a content post up tonight, but I'm still on page 8 of analysis and I have to leave for work in less than six hours. Gonna have to defer that post until tomorrow evening.

After thinking about it more, Desp is pretty damn close to being confirmed town because of his encryptor claim. It's a dumbfuck move for scum to fakeclaim

and

realclaim, since they draw attention to themselves for negative gain after the lynch. Because of this, I'm now fully against a Desp lynch for any reason. Let's force the scum to make tough decisions.

Waiting to give other reads/respond to questions until tomorrow.

[SaintKerrigan]

/anti-prod
I'll be honest, I was wiped out on Friday night and didn't do jack shit. Still catching up, I have basically not seriously read anything past page 19 at this point. Only posting this because I'm honestly worried that I might not finish my catchup before my post-or-get-replaced deadline.

[SaintKerrigan]

One thing I do want to say, however: the hydrae are pissing me off because, by and large, their play has resulted in me having to treat them as individual players rather than as an actual hydra. Basically, this is actually a 25-player game in a 19-player game's body. I know it's too much for me to ask players to change their play styles, but Juls is not the only player here that's getting pissed off with the hydrae play in this game.

/rant

P.S. Read this game for an example of how I think a good hydra's heads should play. Specifically, ISO Copper.

[SaintKerrigan]

Imperium's #934 is spot-on. The whole Juls/hydra dissonance issue has been grossly blown out of proportion and misunderstood. As one of those "older players" (it feels so damn weird to call myself that, btw), my view of hydra play matches Juls (as should be made obvious by my own hydra frustration post). I've caught myself pegging helium-3 as a scumread for the same "hydra dissonance excuse" that Juls brought up. Imperium's post is honestly the only thing that's causing me to reevaluate my stance on helium-3. I'm sad all of this has resulted in Juls needing to replace out.

@Juls: Not that it helps at this point, but I understand why you feel the need to leave the game. I've been in a similar situation before.

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: Speedy Saki

Get your godsdamned act together or else I'll make sure you don't see lylo.

@ SAD I'm still working on assembling that. I've finished catching up on the posts, at least.

[SaintKerrigan]

Before we wind up with entire pages of Saki insults, can we all just agree that Saki is playing the ditz and leave it at that?

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: Speedy Saki

Get your godsdamned act together or else I'll make sure you don't see lylo.

SS, does that really look like me trying to join a counterwagon? Be honest.

The only reason I voted Saki is because they've been pissing me off the entire time I've been doing my catch up. Why? Because the slot's been playing dumb for the majority of the game and it got to the point where literally just seeing a Saki post would make me feel like punching out my monitor. (Perhaps not quite to that extreme, but I trust you get my point.)

[SaintKerrigan]

really? what makes them particularly bad offenders?

The attitude, largely. I mean, NS has posted even less content than Saki, but NS is also not being antagonistic or posting one-liners that have absolutely no relevance to the game.

you spend a lot of time being absolutely apoplectic about a lot of things, but i don't really see a lot of content when i pull up your iso.

got any reads that are based on anything relevant to this specific game?

I do have some reads. I'm just waiting to post them until I have all my reads done.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SS: I'm still looking over N_S to make sure of my read, but at the moment he's a scumread.

I can't recall your case in depth atm, but reviewing that is part of my N_S deep-scrutiny.

[SaintKerrigan]

I've been having trouble writing that analysis post. I don't know why; I literally have nearly eight pages worth of notes on this game (even if those notes only include events up to page 40), but when I try to take all that information and combine it into one singular giant post...I literally feel some kind of writer's block, or something.

At the same time, I'm getting tired of staying quiet and not giving my opinions on anything. So here are some reads that I'm certain about, some speculations that I need to look more into, and the rest of it I'll try to get out in some form or fashion tonight:
- Desp is town (already voiced, but repeating for posterity)
- Juls is town. A lot of what she's been posting is various frustrations with certain elements, but I think when she's not been frustrated she's been genuinely trying to scumhunt.
- SS (Sugoku Sugoi) is town. I feel his scumhunting is genuine, even when I've disagreed with his results from time to time.
- Speedy Saki, for all of their annoyingness, is probably town. I don't know why, it's a gut feeling.
- Hoopla has been giving me scumvibes up until her posts as of yesterday, at which point she's been reading highly town (especially #1181. I still need to look into why, exactly, I felt scumvibes from her in the first place.
- SAD's #674 feels like scum overreacting to pressure (induced by the preceding post). I still have to investigate this feeling further, but it's something I haven't been able to shake.
- Imperium may or may not be town for the #934 post. I'm finding it hard to believe that a scumteam with daytalk would let her post something like this (which basically undermines a major wagon on a town player).

I have plenty of other thoughts, but they aren't congealed well enough for me to put out onto the table, yet. I will get a post out tonight that goes into further detail about my thoughts. It may or may not be a huge, giant analysis post like I had initially planned on writing...but I'm sick of holding back my input and frankly this game is moving so fast I'm not sure I can really get a comprehensive view of it at this stage (at least, not without continually falling behind).

For now,

Unvote: Speedy Saki

FoS: Ser Arthur Dayne

(I may upgrade this to a vote tonight, read pending)

[SaintKerrigan]

Addendum: Since a lot of people here seem to be discounting the value of scum daytalk, here's a game that is a showcase for how lethal properly-utilized scum daytalk can be. Read the game as a whole, preferably, but at the very least read the scum quicktopic.

[SaintKerrigan]

Kerrigan, why did you vote Speedy Saki in the first place? What changed?

Also I'm genuinely not sure if Not_Mafia should claim because idk if there's enough time and enough reasonable people for it to matter

I already said why. Can't link because phone is being a dipshit, but it was the post I made after voting Speedy.

[SaintKerrigan]

Before we wind up with entire pages of Saki insults, can we all just agree that Saki is playing the ditz and leave it at that?

Assuming you mean the one after that

Vote: Speedy Saki

Get your godsdamned act together or else I'll make sure you don't see lylo.

SS, does that really look like me trying to join a counterwagon? Be honest.

The only reason I voted Saki is because they've been pissing me off the entire time I've been doing my catch up. Why? Because the slot's been playing dumb for the majority of the game and it got to the point where literally just seeing a Saki post would make me feel like punching out my monitor. (Perhaps not quite to that extreme, but I trust you get my point.)

I don't think they've been any less annoying. So again, what changed?

I calmed down and separated my emotions from my read. I'd already pegged them as probtown. At the time, I just wanted them dead because I didn't want to deal with their attitude in later days. Now, I'm just being patient and seeing what happens.

[SaintKerrigan]

That came after the anger vote. Also I didn't want more pages of unnecessary content to filter through.

[SaintKerrigan]

After reading 30+ pages in one day and taking notes, you wouldn't want to see more spam posts either, right?

[SaintKerrigan]

Ebwop: @ sleepy

[SaintKerrigan]

what
the fuck

...I don't even understand what happened in the last 4-5-howeverlong pages. Someone please give me a synopsis of what the fuck just happened. I will be posting on my phone from here on out because there's flash flood and tornado warnings going on where I live (aka won't have computer access).

Are we even going to bother lynching anyone other than shos? I don't understand why the Not_Mafia wagon died due to a VT claim. Since when does that justify getting a clean slate?

[SaintKerrigan]

what
the fuck

...I don't even understand what happened in the last 4-5-howeverlong pages. Someone please give me a synopsis of what the fuck just happened. I will be posting on my phone from here on out because there's flash flood and tornado warnings going on where I live (aka won't have computer access).

Are we even going to bother lynching anyone other than shos? I don't understand why the Not_Mafia wagon died due to a VT claim. Since when does that justify getting a clean slate?

Hoopla said STATISTICS said that N_M is most likely telling the truth and then shos claimed Vengeful which = autolynch
(but mollie hasn't gotten the memo)

I agree that vengeful claim = autolynch. Consider my vote on standby for shos until we're ready to lynch or I go to bed (whatever happens first).

If he's real, shooting Jason would work out well for my reads, since I started the day reading him as town, but feel he's gotten
scummier since about the point where he started pushing the speedy wagon.

[SaintKerrigan]

Saint Kerrigan - If you think I may be town or not town from that one post what do you think of my others? I definitely haven't made only ONE post and if you think it looks town because my scum team wouldn't "let" me post something like that, it's a terrible reason to think I might be town. I'd never ask a scum team for permission to make a post. I never plan stuff like that with scum partners. Look at the motivation? Does it serve a scum agenda or a town one? I'm surprised that's not where your answer lies.

Honestly, that one post is one of the only times I didn't feel a null read from you. Also, if you read the scum topic of the game I posted (hint: there's daytalk) you'll better understand why I made the remark about scumteam not letting you make that post. Also also, I'm pretty sure derailing the Juls wagon was not serving a scum agenda.

Incidentally, this reply feels town, too.

[SaintKerrigan]

@sad: how does it feel fake?

Also what's your response to my FoS on you?

[SaintKerrigan]

Alright, just on the off chance Shos is telling the truth - Shouldn't we use this to towns advantage and dictate who he shoots to optimize the chances of hitting scum?

My suggestion would be shoot the 2nd highest wagon at time of lynch.

FoS: Jason

[SaintKerrigan]

@all: I would like some comments regarding sad's 674 as a possible scumslip, but other than maybe a couple posts (can't recall which atm) it hasn'tbeen talked about.

Edit: see, sad, I actually was expecting a little more response to my initial remark about that, but no one picked up on it. Hence, the above question.

Also, you're using the "town players ought to" kind of language, and that makes my eyebrow arch.

[SaintKerrigan]

btw I agree with 1515 feeling fake:

Are we even going to bother lynching anyone other than shos?

I don't understand why the Not_Mafia wagon died due to a VT claim. Since when does that justify getting a clean slate?

^this felt like SaintK was scum complaining about why his wagon died in order to keep the suspicion going. it prob implies not_mafia town if it's true but again I don't wanna write it off just for that

on that note idk if not_mafia makes much sense as scum with a lot of our POE reads, but that's for later

Pretend I came from a long-forgotten era where claiming vanilla meant jack nothing to keeping you out of the noose. Now, suddenly, you're transplanted to a time where a Vermont claim kills your wagon. Does that help you understand my confusion?

[SaintKerrigan]

Him trying to guess at the scumslip sleepy mentions in the preceding post feels like scum worried that he's been exposed, so he tries to preempt the reveal to make himself look better.

[SaintKerrigan]

Pretend I came from a long-forgotten era where claiming vanilla meant jack nothing to keeping you out of the noose. Now, suddenly, you're transplanted to a time where a Vermont claim kills your wagon. Does that help you understand my confusion?

that doesn't have anything to do with my point tho - the point is, the "confusion" read as fake.

also, if you've been keeping up with the thread, you should know why it derailed. it was explained out the ass when it happened (hoopla statistics, timing, etc.). did you srsly miss all that? as it is, it reads as scum complaining in order to look busy.

Ever post from a phone? Much less try to keep up with a post-happy game like this on one?

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, if you read the post you're calling into question, you'd know I said I was confused by the sudden flurry of shit that exploded.

Oh wait. All that's fake, I forgot.

Nvm

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm about to go to bed. If nobody's hammered by the time I wake tomorrow I'll drop the hammer.

[SaintKerrigan]

submitted an SKerr kill for the while. might change it before mod comes

*approves*

[SaintKerrigan]

Welp

gg, all. Not that any of this ever made it to thread, but I was uneasy about both Feu and PN, for what that counts.

I'm glad shos venged me, though, even if by mistake. My workload irl picked up drastically just before gamestart, and that was a significant part of the reason why I had trouble keeping up. I apologize for not being able to post consistently and adroitly.