Mafia with the Quickness 2 GAME OVER!

[Imperium]

Hi!

VOTE: sir arthur dayne

Here we go!

[Imperium]

oh heads up Nacho probably won't be around this day phase at all, so it's just me all on my own.

pedit: I thought so too Arthur!

[Imperium]

Maybe it's due to norms at my homesite, but I don't think daytalk is that big a deal definitely not something SO SCAREY I'd want to lynch someone who looks town from this to get rid of.

[Imperium]

I'm running that by Nacho though.

I also mispelled scary. I'm hungover.

[Imperium]

Maybe it's due to norms at my homesite, but I don't think daytalk is that big a deal definitely not something SO SCAREY I'd want to lynch someone who looks town from this to get rid of.

there are a lot of powerhouse hydras with known scum plotters that would absolutely benefit from daytalk. pretty much any permutation you can think of, really.

Sure it's beneficial, but it's just not really anything I consider a big deal. But I come from a site that always has daytalk and play in them regularly. Not something that outweighs lynching town who can actually be a benefit for town.

[Imperium]

VOTE: Imperium

They need to die. Don't ask why.

I cannot allow this

<3

[Imperium]

tammy what do you think about juls?

meh. I get the sense she's taking the protown line because it sounds like the protown line. She's mostly focusing on something that really isn't alignment indicative.

considering a wagon move that way.

[Imperium]

oh heads up Nacho probably won't be around this day phase at all, so it's just me all on my own.

how do i tell when nacho posts because in we the purple there was a long space of time that i forgot you guys were a hydra

[marquis]

that's a good thing! I have no idea why, but people mistake me for him when we hydra. We pretty much post nothing alike. Though this is what Nacho had to say to that question in We the Purple!

If every post doesn't ooze an unbelievable amount of obvtowniness, you're probably dealing with N.

[Imperium]

N

that is n. secret third head imo

yeah but i know who you really mean thanks i guess

pedit skrew i will respond in new post

That is N with an avatar of my cat. He lost a bet. I think he won though!

[Imperium]

oh heads up Nacho probably won't be around this day phase at all, so it's just me all on my own.

how do i tell when nacho posts because in we the purple there was a long space of time that i forgot you guys were a hydra

[marquis]

that's a good thing! I have no idea why, but people mistake me for him when we hydra. We pretty much post nothing alike. Though this is what Nacho had to say to that question in We the Purple!

If every post doesn't ooze an unbelievable amount of obvtowniness, you're probably dealing with N.

N's in there too?!?!

No, he was just using his initial.

[Imperium]

Okay early town reads on desperado, arthur and Jason.

ALCOHOL IS ALSO EVIL!

[Imperium]

I'm also playing skype mafia so not really focusing.

Need to think about the 2 neighborizers.

Oversoul - Why haven't you interacted with me at all? Also, in our recent game, I did most of the posting and Arthur wasn't around much. We also didn't get *fooled* by the neighborizer. I had quite a bit of paranoia and problems with my neighbor though one thing she said gave me some doubt. I was reading everyone as scum cuz lost.

[Imperium]

Here we go again, Mollie.

I mean, I'm not going to lie it is for :reasons: but it is for :town reasons:

pedit:

Honestly, Tammy, it is because I thought you developed a dislike towards me. I tried interacting with you on your GTAKS and you didn't respond to any of my posts (not eventhe Hi! ) so I wanted to give you space in case that was true

I haven't gotten past the first post in my gtkas. I don't think I've interacted with anyone?

I haven't developed a dislike towards you.

[Imperium]

tammy this is a sincere reach out to the point where I kind of tear up.

can we plz not fight this game.

I don't want to fight with you either.

After some of the more vitriolic and hostile games lately, I just want to start detaching myself emotionally and helping to have more enjoyable games, because this is supposed to be fun.

Nacho and I talked for a really long time a couple weeks ago where he said he wished he could have stepped in and tried to smooth things over, but thinks there's a rift that won't be fixed. I think it's possible.

[Imperium]

<3

I was hoping for a Team Mafia reunion this fall anyway but I was so afraid to approach you with that question if my suspicions were true

And I just noticed that yeah, you had so many posts I didn't even realize they were only answering the opening post. >_>

OH yeah let's hope they run Team Mafia again!

Also, yeah, N keeps getting after me about forgetting my gtkas :p

[Imperium]

OH you were talking about a different game for arthur and a neighborhood?

NEVERMIND!

[Imperium]

Oh then my original reply still stands. I have no idea what he's mentioning about majiffy?

[Imperium]

tammy this is a sincere reach out to the point where I kind of tear up.

can we plz not fight this game.

I don't want to fight with you either.

After some of the more vitriolic and hostile games lately, I just want to start detaching myself emotionally and helping to have more enjoyable games, because this is supposed to be fun.

Nacho and I talked for a really long time a couple weeks ago where he said he wished he could have stepped in and tried to smooth things over, but thinks there's a rift that won't be fixed. I think it's possible.

he might be right cos some things cut to the bone.

a southern expression is "when something is broken so young it never grows straight".

ironically this is supposed to be a positive thing cos the turn of phrase applies to plants that you are trying to get to grow a certain way.

I just don't want to fight with you in this game especially since I am being such a hardass on nacho these days.

if we scumhunt you, I don't want you to meltdown and I don't want to meltdown either.

I think overly is scum. his play reminds me a lot of pikman and he was pretty sleazy that game. <--- only realized this in hindsight.

do you know who I wanna hear from but is on v/la? mastina. cos I kind of think he had overlysoul as scum towards the endgame in that game.

things do cut to the bone. I'm still legitimately offended by some things. He tried to smooth that over but that's something he can't do.

you won't need to be a hardass on nacho or scumhunt us because we're town. and I'm going to be the calm town, the kind that gets me killed because i try to get town to work together and don't freak out. and when he shows up, he'll be the awesome scum hunting town, that's super obvious.

i need more from oversoul. i am kinda bugged that he didn't interact with me in his wall of quote stripes, but he's someone I need more from.

haylen's first post is kinda eh BUT I think there's something to her first post weird claims things. I might be misremembering that, and need to look back a couple years as I haven't played with Haylen in forever. She's a really easy mislynch though, so I'll wait for mastin. I feel like Tales Of taught me some things about Mastin, so we'll see.

[Imperium]

you won't need to be a hardass on nacho or scumhunt us because we're town. and I'm going to be the calm town, the kind that gets me killed because i try to get town to work together and don't freak out. and when he shows up, he'll be the awesome scum hunting town, that's super obvious.

lets arm wrestle for nk1 honour

You can have night one, we'll take night two.

i need more from oversoul. i am kinda bugged that he didn't interact with me in his wall of quote stripes, but he's someone I need more from.

haylen's first post is kinda eh BUT I think there's something to her first post weird claims things. I might be misremembering that, and need to look back a couple years as I haven't played with Haylen in forever. She's a really easy mislynch though, so I'll wait for mastin. I feel like Tales Of taught me some things about Mastin, so we'll see.

if mastina is around she will never get mislynched while we are on guard and well, around.

sad looks icky.

well, i imagine nacho will remember how to read mastin this game!

sad sometimes looks icky when he's not. he's from my homesite, and I'm pretty decent in reading him. He looks town to me right now. And if Juls is scum, he's almost definitely town.

[Imperium]

So, I'm going to lose interest in this game real fast if you guys keep chatting about games other than this one. I'm not in the cool kids club which makes for a really boring read.

I am questioning sad about his "omg ignore that post" wrt you.

we are voting overlysoul who is actively trying to solicit you to neighbouborize him.

how are you feeling left out?

Imperium, oversoul, and sad are all talking different games and my eyes are glazed over.

That's definitely not all we did and was a smallish portion of our interaction.

[Imperium]

Mollie - do you think i'm right on my early desperado town read?

[Imperium]

I think I know what Oversoul is doing and he's prob town for it

I liked Marquis's reaction to Juls

F-16 and I agree on SKrew, Desp, and SAD as town.

@mollie:

why is SAD scum?

Why hasn't F-16 mentioned me at all?

[Imperium]

Also, if you could get F-16 in here and posting and not just proxying crap that would be super sweet!

[Imperium]

Mollie - do you think i'm right on my early desperado town read?

well I thought he was town for it too cos I wouldn't think he would meta burn like that especially for an encryptor role. unless for whatever reason he thought that he was a negative utility as scum and had reason to think that there were neighbourizers in play.

gun to head going with town but it is shaky and I expect him to go apeshit over this.

eta: sad is a waffley read that I was trying to iron out. I didn't get much from him. so unsure.

I'm not great at reading desperado especially after defending him for stupid reasons day one of reckoning and mostly scum reading him in Tales of recently. I feel like I learned something from recent games though, but I won't have Nacho to back me up or tell me I'm dumb I don't think until this day is over. But I think town.

[Imperium]

I'm seriously thinking about replacing out. Everyone seems to know the heads of the hydras and it's all very confusing to me. I have to keep looking at the main post. Like who the hell is pie? And talking about the other head of your hydras is making me confused too.

if you replace out (especially when efforts have been made to try to include you) we will have to decide whether or not that you genuinely feel excluded (and I do not know what else to do to get you to feel included but vote you) or if you are throwing your hands up in the air cos your scummates are [redacted].

It's not about being included, it's about being annoyed because I can't form reads when hydras are talking about each other and then other hydras referring to them by their heads names. I don't like to replace out but this game is going to be real difficult for me to follow. Everyone seems to know each other and that's great, but I don't know most of you, I don't know what side-games you are talking about and it's not something I am enjoying at the moment.

Okay so but earlier we were talking about one game, that just ended, that a couple of us were in, so it was being used by someone to gain a read. It's really not any different from playing in a game with people or alts you don't know, even if the names sound unfamiliar based on heads.

Do you have any impressions so far?

(I like your avatar, it's very pretty, so I don't want you to replace out.)

[Imperium]

desperado - helium and I have discussed you, but I haven't seen you interact with them. Why not?

[Imperium]

i said hello to mollie and she is currently backing up my juls push. what else are you looking for?

i dont' even know. i just remember that the reason that I thought you guys were both off in Charmed was because you ignored each other.

[Imperium]

I don't know what to make of julz except I think she is scummy or town. does this confuse any1? it does me too.

hahahaha

in my last game at westeros, i gave my early day one reads and I had someone in my town list and in my scum list. The same person. Because by brain she was town, but by gut she was scum.

I got tons of shit for *omygodscontradictions* but she was scum and noone believed me when I settled on what my read actually was!

[Imperium]

Okay early town reads on desperado, arthur and Jason.

ALCOHOL IS ALSO EVIL!

I think you might still be 2/3 drunk

Kinda scary how in-line Sleepy is with my thoughts.
Calling town.

Which 2/3rds do you agree with?

Jason? Who you said was town a few posts ago?

des? Who you said was town a few posts ago?

Okay SAD, but how is Skrew's thoughts inline with yours if they're not actually in line with yours?

[Imperium]

OH MY FUCKING GOD...who the fuck is titus? I literally hate this game right now.

Seriously, @Hoopla, please tell this person that I am not some person named Titus. You are probably the only person who knows me before recently.

Now I am really going to bed.

This kinda sounds like town frustration.

[Imperium]

i dont' even know. i just remember that the reason that I thought you guys were both off in Charmed was because you ignored each other.

yeah but that was over like a two week day phase

yeah but it was something I was worried about early on and didn't say anything because Nacho told me I was wrong about everything and then I let your brother sounding not like he did in too many heads throw me off. i'd rather be careful and make sure than let some of my worries go unsaid.

[Imperium]

Falcon - you have the front row seat to the imperium game you wanted, where are you?

[Imperium]

Still catching up. I skimmed through some of the later posts though. Guess my read on you.

Well, I mean we're town, so your read is we're town.

[Imperium]

OH MY FUCKING GOD...who the fuck is titus? I literally hate this game right now.

Seriously, @Hoopla, please tell this person that I am not some person named Titus. You are probably the only person who knows me before recently.

Now I am really going to bed.

This kinda sounds like town frustration.

help me out here plz.

cos why would you start a hydra to play with your husband before hydras were a thing and then not understand anything about hydras?

that is what is baking my noodle.

eta: mastina why do you have to be scum.

i don't think that's what she was saying. I think she was showing a hydra she formed with her husband and had links to her and her husband's names and profiles in the signature to make things easier. It reminds me of how Camn kinda flipped out about hydras in The Wire and wanted us to put our names in the signatures so she wouldn't be confused. (Camn had hydrad before too)

[Imperium]

Still catching up. I skimmed through some of the later posts though. Guess my read on you.

Well, I mean we're town, so your read is we're town.

You'd be right. I'll explain more of my reads when I catch up fully, sync with Pie and write up a massive list of reads. The one I disagree with you is JasonT1981. I have a few concerns that his play is a lot different from Z-Mafia.

My thing is that he doesn't feel like The Wire (where I had him as scum pretty quickly) or my partner in Team Mafia. It's not the strongest read but I still lead town.

[Imperium]

*lean

[Imperium]

I don't understand Tammy's meta-ing reads so far. Someone needs to verify whether she's portraying those past games like they actually were

Which ones?

Is this Bert? If so, why aren't you addressing me? If you have concerns I'm lolmisreprepresenting a game, why aren't you interacting with me about it?

This feels like total gak by the way. I've never misportrayed a game and furthermore haven't "meta" read anyone. The only thing you can be referring to is falcon thinking I was wrong on Jason because he didn't feel like z-mafia and me telling him that he also didn't feel like the wire or my partner in team mafia. Oh and the conversation I had with desperado about helium interactions, but since I am, in fact, talking to him about it, I don't know where you'd think someone needs to verify it.

So what are you talking about because this looks like you just saying stuff to look busy.

[Imperium]

So Oversoul and Mastin/Slice of Pie are probably scum... likely together.

Helium just feels all over the place and not really attacking genuinely? But at the same time the points they've chosen to focus on don't really make me think "scum motivation".

Still think Juls might be scum? I mean I would be frustrated with mollie really regardless, but I'll hold off on actually getting a concert read till I might ISO them soon or just generally wait for more posts.

Skrew/Sugo/Tamcho are all leaning town. I guess? Idrk yet I guess but w/e I'll be able to sort it out later.

I feel like I should have a read on not_mafia but I don't. I'll do some ISOs when I actually get coffee.

Also Mastin is probably gonna call this post bad. The preemptive response is "lol".

You know what I'm going to say right?

If I'm just leaning town but you aren't sure, why aren't you interacting with me?

[Imperium]

yeah but it was something I was worried about early on and didn't say anything because Nacho told me I was wrong about everything and then I let your brother sounding not like he did in too many heads throw me off. i'd rather be careful and make sure than let some of my worries go unsaid.

makes sense

ps i told him how to metaduck you, you should have been more weary of that

Yeah, I didn't really get time to though, you guys killed us night one!

Do you have a read on helium?

[Imperium]

You know what I'm going to say right?

If I'm just leaning town but you aren't sure, why aren't you interacting with me?

Tbh there's a lot right now to focus on and right now I feel like I could let you do your own thing and then interact with you if any bells ring! (but I'm currently trying to figure out more priority targets right now with such short days).

In any case whats your current read on Juls?

Careful calling me not high priority might shatter my fragile ego! Thank you actually.

I'm not sure on juls right now. Early yesterday I leaned scum, then some of her frustration felt town. Most of her argument with helium today isn't very alignment indicative as it's mostly hydra/theory based. I need to do some other things as I want to read through her interaction with helium again. Helium felt weird during that exchange. Also I liked her big post about how she gets flustered. But the focus on hydra dissonance, etc, could be things she just believes? I don't agree with some of it especially as anyone can change their reads on a dime. I'm not sure if some of it is a product of an older site meta as I'm pretty sure she took a break for some time. So, not sure now but will check back later.

What do you think of not_mafia?

[Imperium]

Oh actually her questioning to feu looks townish too.

[Imperium]

Yeah, Tammy's not a priority but gotta throw her a bone I guess to keep her satisfied, but also gotta make her feel the heat so she contributes stuff.

Wait, I could say the same thing about my poodle. I think I'll shut up now!

[Imperium]

Your reads so far have been supported by meta 90%! I'm actually going to take the route I do with Mollie and leave you alone for the majority of D1, worry about you later.

I'll be very light when I talk to you!

Is this Bert? If so, why aren't you addressing me? If you have concerns I'm lolmisreprepresenting a game, why aren't you interacting with me about it?

:effort: I'm not sure how interacting with you would help me read you at all, given my success rate (0?) at reading you

That doesn't address the main portion of the issue. Why did you say someone needs to check to make sure I'm not misportraying games? What does that even mean? Why didn't you address something specific? What would even lead you to that conclusion in the first place. I've, town or not-town, never misportrayed a game for meta purposes. That would be stupid as hell as you can actually read.

Desperado isn't meta.

Arthur is a form of meta based on a lot of experience playing with him and talking with him, but I haven't referenced any game of his, just that I'm pretty decent at reading him.

Jason was part of a conversation, and even further lol, if you think I went out of my way to misportray two games for mr meta himself knowing he'll read the games I referenced and come back to talk to me about them.

So what was your point? And do you have issue with the reads I did give?

[Imperium]

I need to properly catch up, but in a minute.

I doubt it's multiball.

And I'm pretty sure when I actually read stuff from today without skimming quickly here and there, my vote will be moving to not_mafia.

Also, sugofalcon, why are you asking SAD what he thinks of not_mafia when I've already asked him that question, he's already answered it and someone else has already commented on his response and he's responded to taht.

[Imperium]

I doubt it's multiball

Why doubt?

because

[Imperium]

It's not as damning as I thought it was. I'm gonna talk to SAD for a bit about.
Right now I want Juls or jason lynched, probably also SAD. There are a couple other scumfucks I want to talk to more and obviously some people that I want vigged hard

why is Jason scum?

i thought you disagreed with my Jason town read?

[Imperium]

Am I the only one who didn't like Hoopla's observations about Oversoul? Oversoul has definitely self-meta'd before as scum. I mean this game doesn't feel as manipulative as when I've seen him do it as scum, but he's still capable of it.

I do, however, like the neighborizer thing.

Also, yes Bert, Hoopla was scum in that game, though I followed it and had her as scum pretty early, so hopefully I have a tiny handle on how to read her.

[Imperium]

See I had alarm bells go off when he said he didn't expect helium you think it was real. Upon rereading, the gambit was aimed at Juls (dumb thing to do), so I want to know why helium would know it was fake but Juls would fall from it?

...Because I expected a) mollie to be more familiar with my general playstyle and b) Juls having been away from mafia for a longish time period?

have you played with mollie much?

[Imperium]

see I think that if Jason were scum he'd totally be pushing on Arthur as that would be easy for him to do. I *guess* if one is scum the other could be but I'm leaning town on both right now, so.

Arthur - What are your thoughts on Jason?

[Imperium]

That seems null to me unless someone tells me that's something townSAD would NEVER say/do
Tammy is that something townSAD would NEVER say/do?

I'm not sure what you're referring to?

But, there's not a whole lot that SAD!Town wouldn't do. There's also not a whole lot that SAD!Scum wouldn't do.

Arthur is best read on tone. He's also best read in relation to the rest of the game. He gets scum read A LOT and is somewhat of an easy mislynch at times. I'm not going to go into too much detail about how I read him, I mean he's probably pretty aware, but I'd rather see how things develop without me saying what he should and shouldn't be doing.

(waffles is being adorable tonight though just so you know!)

[Imperium]

Arthur - Why did you look for Sleepy's scumslip for you?

[Imperium]

SAD seems to be going on the defensive, first calling points bad but not explaining why and then resorting to personal insults regarding grammar and vocabulary.

Noted.

I know that he responded to this, but I can pretty much guarantee you that his answer is a really honest response and he wasn't insulting you or your grammar.

[Imperium]

Oh - his multiball thing, no. Arthur has always had a habit of talking about the possible setup in the first portion of day one. It used to be the majority of his early posts. And as I don't think it's multiball at all, I don't see it as a slip at all, just him thinking out loud, which he tends to do.

(yes, more adorable than usual)

[Imperium]

Tbh there's a lot right now to focus on and right now I feel like I could let you do your own thing and then interact with you if any bells ring! (but I'm currently trying to figure out more priority targets right now with such short days).

*coughbullshitbullshitcough*

Not only is this response utter trash, it's also highly false: if there's a lot to focus on...why hasn't he actually, y'know. FOCUSED on it.

See not necessarily. I mean Arthur and I have played together longer than we've played together with anyone else in this game. We've been scum partners (In fact, I'm pretty sure the last time he rolled scum, he rolled it with me offsite) and hydra'd. You know we hydra because we just did in Tales of. So sure I wish that if he was unsure of me that he would interact with me more, BUT I'd have to look back but this feels like a similar tact he took with me in NYempire when he replaced in where he thought I might be town but wondered if anyone could tell him if my meta had changed. I don't think that he would really frustrate me into towntelling unless he thought it was necessary, and really the only reason it's slightly on my radar is that I, and Faraday, once realized he was most likely scum because he was like yeah they're null but not actually trying to get a read on us which he totally would do. But that's a small thing right now that isn't a big blinking sign. And he has focused on other people, and I can see him thinking oh Tammy doesn't sound fake so I'll just see how she does and go from there, and I think the people who really do know me best know that letting me do my thing and seeing what I do is a good way to read me without frustrating me.

[Imperium]

Bert!

[Imperium]

Oh wow slandaar could start doing something any minute now.

[Imperium]

Hoopla - Why are all your reads so far based mostly on claims? It's 30 pages in, you don't have any reads based on play?

[Imperium]

mr meta

Who is that?

Falcon

So, what kind of treats do you like?

cookies.

[Imperium]

Okay town is in helium, perpetual nonsense, desperado, feu et vol, and possibly in arthur, sleepy, jason, sugoku, oversoul, juls, and slice of life.

VOTE: not_mafia

[Imperium]

see I think that if Jason were scum he'd totally be pushing on Arthur as that would be easy for him to do. I *guess* if one is scum the other could be but I'm leaning town on both right now, so.

Arthur - What are your thoughts on Jason?

Is he really that predictable?

My memory of Jason!scum is pretty predictable. He has a tendency to look scummy when town and pick up on weird things. But when he's scum he goes after easy stuff, even if it's easy stuff about his partners. Arthur would be a goldmine for him, so for him to not be going after him means that he's probably actually reading the game, and looking for actual scum motivation.

[Imperium]

(though the only caveat to that is if they're a team and Arthur needs to stick around, but given my experience with Jason I'm not so convinced on that.)

[Imperium]

I feel like SKerr had a strongish start and I thought she would be more relevant but honestly I feel like she falling into the background

I forgot she was in the game :/

[Imperium]

Arthur - What are your thoughts on Jason?

Pretty much nothing, I just want more contribution from him. Though this brought back painful flashbacks from the wire game:

qt's aren't available during the day so how does that make sense/how is it even relevant?

Is this a slip?

You said you enable daytalk and now you say QT's aren't available during the day. Which is it?

are you asking me? I can see why someone would ask this question and think it was a catch. I'd have to look back, I think desperado answered it?


Interesting catch... I would like to know this too

Is that a general playstyle?

[Imperium]

okay weird. I totally responded to that quote I dont' know what happened to it.

Oh I see it. It got stuck inside.

"are you asking me? I can see why someone would ask this question and think it was a catch. I'd have to look back, I think desperado answered it?" is what I said.

[Imperium]

Pictures!

picture

[Imperium]

Will you have falcon read his iso in The Wire and in Team Mafia 2012. He should have the link for the team mafia game as he pulled it up in another game for reference, and I'm lazy right now. In both of those games I had Jason as scum really early (I realize I was his partner in Team Mafia but I read the game before I got my role pm), and he doesn't really feel like either of those games.

[Imperium]

Oversoul if you're referring to Hoopla's point about you not self-metaing as scum,

that's a really bad point

and I'm going to be very sad if you actually push that as a good point.

[Imperium]

Oh you mean your point about hoopla in your case.

never mind. carry on.

keep lynching not-mafia.

[Imperium]

oh good good, it's nice you guys have settled your differences.

NOW let's get onto lynching not_mafia.

also juls could post :/

[Imperium]

Falconguru

[Imperium]

That's my favorite Aerosmith song!

[Imperium]

that's a kinda snoozy question.

[Imperium]

ebwop or whatever. that last post was to falcon.

[Imperium]

You're coming off a game in which I wanted to be lynched because I thought it would benefit town if I was, so I'm not sure why it seems so odd for you.

I mean I think it would be kind of odd for desperado to make that his day one play as scum? I can't see him doing it so that people won't be parnaoid for why he's still alive because that's not something I think he'd worry about or anyone would worry about which would be the only reason to make that claim. I've seen a game with a town encryptor, so yeah, I don't know, I'll let Nacho make the final decision on desperado if he shows up, but I have him as town until he tells me I'm wrong.

[Imperium]

leave me alone I'm scummy!

[Imperium]

i love that desperado can't read the easier to read head of this hydra.

it warms my heart

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WAIT YOU HAD ME AS TOWN EARLY IN TALES OF...

...and town read nacho!scum?

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... this is not me stopping everything because someone isn't town reading me. I really, genuinely, think it's amusing/cool someone can't read me and think it's humorous that someone thinks it's easier to read NACHO instead of me.

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though desperado I do actually want you to answer for that. because you read me as town early, correctly. And you read nacho as scum, incorrectly.

so why are you now saying you can't read me and feel more comfortable reading someone you read wrong in the very last game you've played with him?

pedit: but the day before or the day we did lynch nacho you had both of us in the if we could all recognize we're town list we'd win the game. I was town, but Nacho was not, and you did not want to lynch nacho the day I through a fit about him being scum.

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*read nacho as town incorrectly

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although desperado *not being able to read me* probably means he's definitely town. I'm pretty sure the only time he's had trouble has been when he's town. When he's scum, I think he's just ignored me or written me off as town?

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To be fair, I spent quite a ton of time telling JSU hydra that you were town and they basically went with my read.

That's fine, but my issue is the "I feel more comfortable reading Nacho" when he's shit at reading nacho. But it's probably irrelevant as he'd probably just write me off as town if he were scum and I think his encryptor thing is town anyway.

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That's fine, but my issue is the "I feel more comfortable reading Nacho" when he's shit at reading nacho. But it's probably irrelevant as he'd probably just write me off as town if he were scum and I think his encryptor thing is town anyway.

i'm not shit at reading nacho though.

experience says otherwise, but hey it

doesn't matter

. I appreciate some slight suspicion! So, thank you for thinking I'm the harder to read head!

I actually really mean that!

I actually really do. i feel like I'm one of the easiest people on this site to read and that nacho is one of the best scum players on this site, so if you really think nacho is easier to read, I feel like less of a failure! so thank you!

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mastin-style quick guide to desperado/nacho interactions:

are we both town? we'll figure that out pretty quickly

is desperado scum and nacho town? desperado is

fucked

is nacho scum and desperado town? desperado will probably recognize it but fail to get nacho lynched.

and there you go. so if you want to know my alignment just wait for nacho to catch up; he'll know.

didn't you win the card game as scum when nacho was town?

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nacho was beyond obviously town that game.

pedit: but for some reason you think that's easier to read than me. I'm a bit dumbfounded and thankful because I feel so blatantly obvious, and for some reason a couple of people don't see it!

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Ha I was just getting ready to link you to the Wire game and ask you to read through it.

I'm crashing, so I'll try to explain more later, but I fear it will be he doesn't feel fake like he did in those games. I'll look at your thoughts tomorrow though.

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I've quickly skimmed but...

Don't replace out .

I've played a game zach moderated before and our neighborhood remained open after the neighborizer died.

The argument with juls has gotten really unproductive. It feels like you guys are arguing the same points over and over again with nothing new being added. You're talking past each other. Juls is nothing like Titus in the first place but when mollie gets something in her head it stays there. The argument over hydra dissonance is also getting silly. There are more people in this thread.

Nacho hasn't made a single post, nor has he read the game, nor has he even responded to the question I asked him a couple days ago about desperado and the encryptor. So if you're using my thoughts to strengthen some other idea thiinking it's nacho that has them you shouldn't. Unless you're just calling me nacho for short hand, I'm going to be amused that people mix us up.

Oh I had something else to say. It will come to me.

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I don't want to revamp the hydra argument, but you guys are talking past each other and I think that you're using this argument as forming your reads and you really shouldn't. Someone said to Juls that she doesn't understand how hydras work, but that isn't the case at all, she just

has a different idea about how hydras should work

. And if you look at anyone with an older join date or who plays very infrequently or who doesn't hydra a lot or play with hydras a lot, you're going to find that they have far different beliefs about how hydras should work than those who hydra a lot right now. A whole lot of people think that hydras should function as one entity. If you've ever played a a game with a CES hydra for example, he thinks they should work as one and construct posts together. A lot of people who have been playing for a long time feel that way, so it's easy to clash with people who don't. It doesn't make either of the approaches wrong per se, but it's how people think they should function. And part of the argument right now is that there are two viewpoints about hydras and there being conflated with alignment.

The arguments in thread between hydra heads (which does happen and no sorry does not make you look obvtown when you do it) is frustrating to a lot of people. It's one reason why people hate hydras or playing with large amounts of them. It also makes some people suspicious because it looks like you're trying to demonstrate your dissonance because people think (or thought at one time) that dissonance is a town tell. Arthur mentioned earlier that scum hydras have to fake dissonance now because it's seen as a town tell, and yes scum hydras fake dissonance.

But Juls's point isn't about the dissonance, it's

how the dissonance is being used

. Juls has a viewpoint about *how* antihero should have answered that question. IE that was mollie's read; I don't think she's scum and I never did, blah blah blah. But he just said that was mollie, not me. It looks like handwaving an argument away with a dissonance defense instead of answering the question. But antihero answered it how he sees it, ie it was mollie who made those posts not him. To be fair he could have been a bit more forthcoming, which I think he later was so it's moot. I had a similar issue in Charmed when I hydrad with nacho and he made a point about something. Another player wanted elaboration and Nacho was gone, and I couldn't answer the question because I didn't understand his point, which happens pretty rarely I usually understand where my hydra heads are coming from, and he thought I was delaying the point or not having thoughts of my own and waiting for nacho. Which I wasn't, I just didn't understand, and couldn't answer. We both ended up getting frustrated at one another over it.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, this probably didn't help, but I'm just seeing a clash of misunderstanding between people who are thinking differently about how hydras are used and between terms and talking past each other.

I don't understand why Marquis is so annoyed at a really basic question. Who is scum when obvscum Juls flips town? People ask that question all the time. If it's coming from town, it's trying to get you to think about the game ahead of time and get information out there. If it's coming from scum, it's trying to be manipulative? It looks more like town to me though. Maybe I'm just empathizing with some of her frustration though. It makes me feel bad when someone wants to replace out because they feel like they don't fit in and have been misunderstood, and I just want to call her town and give her a hug.

Oh I thought I had a question for Hoopla and now I can't remember it. Maybe later.

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ITT ms/saki prove they're not reading the thread.

We know scum have daytalk.

Thanks.

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first off you're right i'm annoyed at what should be a basic question. but i have a right to be annoyed when whenever i began what was supposed to be a quick response at the question i wanted to yell at her because the wording of the question is a kind of "have you stopped beating your wife" question. i read it to respond to it, part of me responds to the part calling herself town with "oh yeah you're town huh" and then i have to go remind myself "no -she's- the one who said that it's not something you're supposed to take for granted in your answer", and it's a completely unfair damned-if-you-do/don't question that i always hate seeing. this is the first time it's been directed at me though which probably amplifies my hatred of it.

secondly i've been getting some criticism since dark age of the law for the way i play hydrae so this isn't really something new to me.

and i've never really used a hydra qt before but since the mod already had the neighborhood qt created for us i figured it would be beneficial to the game for us to try to turn it into that after the noise my doduo hydra made back in the day kept getting us scumread. i'm not sure if beast has ever hydra'd before, but i think he's doing the best he can to listen to my ideas which tbh is more than i can say for myself. when i hydra'd with notscience as doduo, we clashed so much in terms of reads. granted that game i was pretty spot on as opposed to his nacho-is-100%-town-even-though-he's-about-to-flip-mafia (which i should probably stop bringing up but i guess i'm just too proud of my reads that game, though there isn't much to be proud of when nobody not even your hydra partner listens to your reads until process of elimination confirms most of them lategame. whatever. that game was really good for my confidence levels)

not sure how big of a wall rambling paragraph that just turned out to be lol oops but basically the gist of what i'm saying is: i am finally trying to make the effort to combine my reads and gameplan with my hydra partner, but we still see differently on things like whether juls should be today's lynch or not. at the very least we are pretty sure right now who we are going to neighborize tonight given we don't suddenly lynch them (or us don't even try it) which is more than i can say for whatever "agreements" notsci and i made when we kept trying to override each other's power role decisions in the repeatedly aforementioned game.

that was also probably too much. if you can't read it whatever. i was just about to put yet another "basically what i'm saying is this" line but i'd probably keep doing the same thing over and over again.

i'm not going to stop signing my posts though, because as much as some players might want a hydra to at least look like one person it's just not going to happen. sorry not sorry, there you go.

-marquis

If I didn't already think they were town, I'd think it from this.

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AAH!! quick deadlines!!! MUST READ!!!!

must sleep first though


anyone wanna help me catch up? tel me where I should start reading? something important happened?

also, damnit, I wanted to replace to scumslot

Hi shos!

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The 2 votes on Shos.. do you think his opening line 'also, damnit, I wanted to replace to scumslot' was over compensating for actually replacing into a scumslot?

I'm not a vote on shos, but I've been partnered with him twice and I think he prefers scum, unless I'm just really misremembering. So, it's null to me.

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qt's aren't available during the day so how does that make sense/how is it even relevant?

Is this a slip?

You said you enable daytalk and now you say QT's aren't available during the day. Which is it?

Interesting catch... I would like to know this too

how scum is this on a scale from 10 to 10

I am STILL interested in this... and Marq has gone silent..... this seemed almost like asking permission to vote me, but only if others thought it was scummy.

Why not just give your own opinions on how scummy it was? This seemed more like an opportunistic testing of the waters for something to latch onto than anything else. VERY tempted to vote on this, and the lack of activity on the slot.

Marquis = feu et vol

Also, I *think* that's already been answered. desperado got two games mixed up?

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tammy and I just recently finished that was pretty painful for both of us.

This is true and part of the reason I asked Nacho to hydra with me this game instead of the mini we had planned on was because I really wanted to play this game, but mollie was already signed up and I really wanted to play, and hoped that he as a hydra with me would be able to field any carpet bombs. That was probably selfish of me :/

anyhoo. tammy and I are townreading each other and you shld for realz trust that. we are incredibly alike she and I. I have always known this but some people might not see it. HINT: nacho does.

<3

@ tammy

I thought nacho was giving the hoopla read that impresses me that you gave it.

Nope, it's all been me here. I'm not sure what to think that that impresses you. I'm insightful sometimes?

I am not liking slaandy, hoopla, or nero/shos and I am doubting my mastina townread. an overlysoul townread and anti not being okay with him impacts that a good deal. I would be lying that I might be overcompensating cos I feel like games like tales are examples of him getting mislynched for horrible reasons and I don't want a repeat of that. BUT, I feel like we should be in sync right now and I don't feel so much as a stir.

jason just scummily clueless and not engaged.

I need to synch up with anti to iron out a final reads list I don't think we have much time.

What do you not like about mastin? I agree about his horrible Tales of mislynch, even though I hammered just to stop it, but I should have fought or harder, live and learn. Talk to me about Jason though.

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I kind of think that Tammy agreeing not to argue being indicative of her being town is bullshit? Like, that's a personal issue between you two that isn't game-related.

But it is kinda game-related? Mollie and I have never fought outside of a game, but in the last game we played in together, when we were both town, fought the entire game. It was a humongous distraction. I thought she was scum for her response to me, and she thought I was scum for the way I asked her a question. Like it wasn't pretty and what started

in game

extended out of game so much so that Nacho told me it started a rift he doesn't think can be fixed.

I don't exactly get why you're questioning it in the way you are? No, me agreeing not to argue doesn't make me town. Me being town makes me town, and those who have played with me can pretty much distinguish the tone that makes me town and makes me not. If I were scum, I'd probably still say I didn't want to fight, but I'm sure my response would have been a little different. It wouldn't have been what I gave. There's a reason my mindset is pretty obvious to anyone's who's played with me.

So, you're oversimplying it, and unless you have serious concerns about either of our alignments I have no idea why you're trying to instigate anything.

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METAL SONIC - CAN YOU GIVE ANY ACTUAL THOUGHTS ON THE GAME? THANKS.

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haven't played with you before so sorry that I'm not seeing the Tammyobvtown.

i shrug at you, but waffles hisses.

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Adding onto what Pie was saying, I actually think Jason was going after easy targets with the Speedy Saki vote and the fencesit on Juls. I thought of what Tammy was saying about how Jason as scum goes after easy targets and him not going after Arthur felt town. But then, there are so many easier targets than Arthur and I don't get why he would go after Arthur in particular as scum. He didn't interact with him and maybe never thought to push him.

eh. My experience with Jason isn't that he fence-sits as scum. He's not afraid to make a push on someone who others think are town and give strong reasoning. In The Wire, he went after Arthur with strong reasoning for some really silly things while others thought that he was town. Besides Arthur has already gotten quite a bit of attention and I think for Jason!scum Arthur would be an easy target because he'd be able to give some good reasons for going after him. UNLESS Arthur is his partner, but they don't feel that way, sort of? IDK Arthur saying that he's waiting for Jason to do something when Jason has provided enough content feels kinda weird. I might be jumping at shadows there.

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Oh you can add sugoku to solid town read territory.

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None of my posts afterwards have been on daytalk, I can't exactly retroactively change discussion. And the times I was able to be active it was largely Helum and Juls tiff and I had no interest in wading in to a screaming match.

this is bullshit. helium vs. Juls didn't happen until after those 4 posts.

and that doesn't have anything to do with my point. there was nothing stopping you from forming and developing more reads, as opposed to talking about daytalk all the time, especially given the bolded. all I get from your ISO are a few reads that don't have much to them - if you weren't interested in daytalk discussion, I'd expect your effort to be focused on developing your reads further as opposed to making comments about daytalk.

also, you say this, but you ended up wading into it anyway when you offered opinions on, and voted, both of them down the road. hardly ggs

[

It reminded me of another interaction we had (me and Antihero) in another game

Should I not be reading you guys as town?

Please stop freaking me out.

exactly what interaction are you talking about and what interaction did it remind you of?

also I don't see how that has anything to do with my point. the point was you had a TOWNREAD on Juls and then out of nowhere you retracted it and chose to take Juls' side in Juls vs. mollie. given you had a townread on her before, it read as you trying to take full advantage of that massive shitstorm by trying to jump on either of their wagons. (and on top of that this also discounts whatever interaction you brought up, unless I'm missing smth)

now I need LOTS more votes on not_mafia, and I want everyone who hasn't yet to give their thoughts on my not_mafia case and how he keeps contradicting himself.

or you can just look at this:

None of my posts afterwards have been on daytalk, I can't exactly retroactively change discussion. And the times I was able to be active it was largely Helum and Juls tiff and I had no interest in wading in to a screaming match.

this is bullshit. helium vs. Juls didn't happen until after those 4 posts.

tl;dr: he brought up Juls vs. helium as a reason for him to not post anything besides his comments on daytalk, when it didn't even happen till after the post I called him on.

all you ppl who are pushing SS as a counterwagon can suck it ~

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How do I keep getting comments stuck inside quotes?

Should I not be reading you guys as town?

Please stop freaking me out.

[Imperium]

Like seriously can I not win?

I think you're town and that's awful but if I wasn't reading you as town I'd be awful to. Should I just not mention you at all?

[Imperium]

Like seriously can I not win?

I think you're town and that's awful but if I wasn't reading you as town I'd be awful to. Should I just not mention you at all?

wut
where did this victimization come from

Can you pretend to act like town sleepy?

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Okay, I guess I'll read his meta in the Wire more closely to solidify a read there. Curious about your strong townread, was it my posts or Pie's?

Also, If I'm actually your strongest town read as you indicated last night,

what does it matter

?

[Imperium]

Like seriously can I not win?

I think you're town and that's awful but if I wasn't reading you as town I'd be awful to. Should I just not mention you at all?

wut
where did this victimization come from

Can you pretend to act like town sleepy?

I seriously want that answered because it seemed really out of place

Please stop trying to instigate stuff.

[Imperium]

VOTE: not_mafia

because pieguy and oversoul

eta: suck it SK

psa:jason t is pretty scummy

I have that much influence on you despite being mostly a pariah this game?

sleepy

babycakes, how come this didn't register to you as victimization or whatever crap you're pulling on me?

serious question is really really serious.

[Imperium]

Okay, I guess I'll read his meta in the Wire more closely to solidify a read there. Curious about your strong townread, was it my posts or Pie's?

Also, If I'm actually your strongest town read as you indicated last night,

what does it matter

?

Ok, chill out. I wasn't asking as a way to sort you out. Remember when I said in Tales that I wished I could make my alignment obvious like you do and it is annoying that people might sometimes find me scummy as town? I just wondered if I succeeded in doing that or it was because of Pie.

You haven't made enough posts to make it super obvious. It was Pie's posts which were tonally similar to the way he tried to get votes on Mastin in Tales of in a way that I'm not sure he's capable of as scum that made me move you guys from possible town to stronger town.

I do think you're capable of giving a reads list like you did last night as scum and I think that you as scum would call me your strongest town read as I would expect it.

[Imperium]

victimization or whatever crap you're pulling on me?

Like seriously can I not win?

I think you're town and that's awful but if I wasn't reading you as town I'd be awful to. Should I just not mention you at all?

Tell me that's not victimization

I'm not talking to you anymore.

[Imperium]

VOTE: not_mafia

because pieguy and oversoul

eta: suck it SK

psa:jason t is pretty scummy

I have that much influence on you despite being mostly a pariah this game?

sleepy

babycakes, how come this didn't register to you as victimization or whatever crap you're pulling on me?

serious question is really really serious.

because I've already taken note of Oversoul's slimeyness, but more importantly, that has nothing to do with what I'm asking you

You aren't asking me anything. Review your questions and talk to me like the human being I know you know how to be.

[Imperium]

Okay I'll play along with this little game for a bit longer
@Imperium
Specifically at Tammy,

Like seriously can I not win?

I think you're town and that's awful but if I wasn't reading you as town I'd be awful to. Should I just not mention you at all?

Where does this post come from? Suddenly you're on the defensive despite not being attacked.
And then if you actually answer this, we can move on to my sudden penchant for "instigating" as well as your sudden penchant for deflecting.

Falcon and I just finished a game where I was super paranoid of him all game and he was frustrated I wasn't town reading him when I should have been. (And I should have been, my paranoia was stupid, but that game was very tense.)

Here, I go from he's possible town to oh yeah they're strong town and it felt like I was being questioned on why I would town read him after I just got a heap of crap for not town reading him. I felt like I was damned if I do damned if I don't.

[Imperium]

And considering you got into the middle of a conversation, that he would have completely understand where I was coming from, with ohmygods victimization, when it's nothing like that, and you couldn't be fucked to see how

he would answer that

looks fucking terrible.

[Imperium]

YEP!

[Imperium]

And considering you got into the middle of a conversation, that he would have completely understand where I was coming from, with ohmygods victimization, when it's nothing like that, and you couldn't be fucked to see how

he would answer that

looks fucking terrible.

Rephrase please?

you butted into the middle of a conversation with your bullshit ass vicitimization crap where falcon would have known exactly the context of that question i asked him, when it's nothing like victimization, but you trying to instigate something for your own purposes before you could see how *he* would respond to my question, and I don't think that looks like a town interjection at all.

[Imperium]

Who are your scum reads sleepy?

[Imperium]

And considering you got into the middle of a conversation, that he would have completely understand where I was coming from, with ohmygods victimization, when it's nothing like that, and you couldn't be fucked to see how

he would answer that

looks fucking terrible.

Rephrase please?

you butted into the middle of a conversation with your bullshit ass vicitimization crap where falcon would have known exactly the context of that question i asked him, when it's nothing like victimization, but you trying to instigate something for your own purposes before you could see how *he* would respond to my question, and I don't think that looks like a town interjection at all.

I'm sorry I thought we were being civil now?
Yeah I "butted in" because I didn't know the context, and I'm sure others didn't either, and falcon replying to you would not have provided us with the context.

asking me a question would have been one thing, you accused me of the most bullshit thing you could have. Because you, again, tried to instigate things. The first time you did it was to tell mollie her town read of me was bullshit after she explained part of the context. This time was to accuse me of playing the victim without having a clue what I was referring to.

Town doesn't act like that.

[Imperium]

Falcon - why do you guys have hoopla as town?

[Imperium]

I kind of think that Tammy agreeing not to argue being indicative of her being town is bullshit? Like, that's a personal issue between you two that isn't game-related.

Tammy, thoughts?

Why did you ask me to give you thoughts on this?

[Imperium]

And considering you got into the middle of a conversation, that he would have completely understand where I was coming from, with ohmygods victimization, when it's nothing like that, and you couldn't be fucked to see how

he would answer that

looks fucking terrible.

Rephrase please?

you butted into the middle of a conversation with your bullshit ass vicitimization crap where falcon would have known exactly the context of that question i asked him, when it's nothing like victimization, but you trying to instigate something for your own purposes before you could see how *he* would respond to my question, and I don't think that looks like a town interjection at all.

I'm sorry I thought we were being civil now?
Yeah I "butted in" because I didn't know the context, and I'm sure others didn't either, and falcon replying to you would not have provided us with the context.

asking me a question would have been one thing, you accused me of the most bullshit thing you could have. Because you, again, tried to instigate things. The first time you did it was to tell mollie her town read of me was bullshit after she explained part of the context. This time was to accuse me of playing the victim without having a clue what I was referring to.

Town doesn't act like that.

This is such a complete misrepresentation of my actions that I am rendered nearly speechless

Like seriously can I not win?

I think you're town and that's awful but if I wasn't reading you as town I'd be awful to. Should I just not mention you at all?

wut
where did this victimization come from

This was your immediate response. You categorized it as victimization immediately. You didn't have context. You didn't know that previously I got shit for

not explicitly town reading him

and immediately claimed it was something it wasn't. You didn't ask me a question. You didn't wait to see how Falcon would respond to my question and response. You tried to interpret it as something it wasn't and butted in with that. I didn't misrepresent anything.

pedit: then don't claim I'm misrepresenting you when I say you're instigating stuff when it's what you do!

[Imperium]

VOTE: not_mafia

because pieguy and oversoul

eta: suck it SK

psa:jason t is pretty scummy

I have that much influence on you despite being mostly a pariah this game?

sleepy

babycakes, how come this didn't register to you as victimization or whatever crap you're pulling on me?

serious question is really really serious.

because I've already taken note of Oversoul's slimeyness, but more importantly, that has nothing to do with what I'm asking you

actually it totally does because in the realm of playing the victim someone claiming to be a pariah this game, when I'm not sure where he's getting that, and early claiming that someone doesn't like him, is more along the lines of your victim tell than someone thinking no matter what read they give someone is going to be unsatisfying.

[Imperium]

victimization or whatever crap you're pulling on me?

Like seriously can I not win?

I think you're town and that's awful but if I wasn't reading you as town I'd be awful to. Should I just not mention you at all?

Tell me that's not victimization

NOPE.

[Imperium]

victimization or whatever crap you're pulling on me?

Like seriously can I not win?

I think you're town and that's awful but if I wasn't reading you as town I'd be awful to. Should I just not mention you at all?

Tell me that's not victimization

NOPE.

but what would it mean for my alignment if you did think that? because unless you think i'm scum for some erroneous victimization tell, then you're trying to start stuff for the purpose of starting stuff, which is not town.

[Imperium]

I think him calling himself a pariah in this game wasn't that inaccurate
I thought your reaction to falcon did not make sense. Now that I have context, it does. This is all about perspective Tammy.

Yeah but asking me about context is one thing. Asking me why I would have responded to Falcon's question the way I did would be asking me a question. Accusing me of victimization isn't asking that. It's immediately trying to paint my question and response in a particular light. It was a similar thing you did with the Mollie interaction. You didn't try to understand it; you tried to discredit it. That's not scumhunting or being proactive, that's discrediting and trying to create a rift that I think has been made obvious exists and that both of us are trying to work through and together in this game, so I don't understand why a town you would try to crater that.

[Imperium]

Who are your scum reads sleepy?

strongest are Juls, jason, and SAD

these are town reads of mine to various degrees.

Juls reaction today didn't soften your scum read at all?

why on jason and SAD?

[Imperium]

@ SleepyKrew, the question I asked was more out of curiosity than anything else. I'm trying to change my playstyle after a recent game (Tales of You) where I was suspected a lot as town and have been trying to stay out of conflicts as much as possible. I asked Tammy who she was townreading because I wondered if I was playing better than in that game. I totally get why it could be misinterpreted based on that past game which Tammy explained in Post 1064 but I don't think there is even the slightest chance she's scum here and I'll take that read to the bank. In the several games I've played with Tammy, I've only been this sure in her being town in maybe one other game. Her reaction wasn't "victimization" at all and her response made perfect sense to me in context of our past games.

TBF your posts have looked townish too but as I told you in the beginning of Tales of, I learned in Attack on Titan that I want to town read you. And I know I said this already, but your posts with your reads list last night did look town, but it's something that I think you could do as scum. I think that independently both of you looked possibly town, but Pie's posts are something I don't think he could fake.

Thank you for seeing my point of view though

[Imperium]

I am actually not convinced that Hoopla is town but Pie is pretty adamant about it and we were actually discussing it in our hydra QT a little while ago.

He really liked Hoopla's interpretation on oversoul in Post 640 and her thoughts on the way Oversoul was asking to be neighborized were pretty much exactly in line with Pie's thoughts. He also thought that the way she's forming reads looks town. Her first reads (Juls, Oversoul) were based on claims or the way the game is playing out, which are exactly the kinds of reads that Pie says he would pick up on first if he was behind and couldn't make heads or tails of any of the arguments people were actually pushing. He also thought that the same mindset is shown with her Post 39 where she believes PN's miller claim - and the other read she had was a gut read and Pie thought it made a lot of sense for town who's behind to use as a starting point.

So, while I'm not convinced, we are still hashing out that read. My issues with Hoopla mostly was her vote on Helium which sucked and her excessive focus on claims.

Eh, but my problem is that Oversoul is completely capable of self-metaing as scum. You should remember that as you were in the nightless game. Remember the big self-meta read that Oversoul gave that made Arthur town read him for? I just don't think that that's a real read someone would give. I do agree on the neighborize thing though. That part looks a bit townish.

I guess the reason Pie is town reading Hoopla is one of my biggest problems with Hoopla. I don't think that *so many* arguments here are so hard to follow that Hoopla can't get any sort of read based on play. I mean what does she do in games where people don't claim early? Wander around for 30+ pages lost? Even I don't do that.

What do you guys think of Slandaar and Saint Kerrigan?

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yeah I think I've mentioned a couple of times that I'm not sure how this impacts my read of you and that I don't feel like sorting that out at the moment
Something caught my attention and I brought it up. It's called

INSTIGATING

trying to proactively scumhunt.

did you even have a read on me prior to that?

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I think him calling himself a pariah in this game wasn't that inaccurate
I thought your reaction to falcon did not make sense. Now that I have context, it does. This is all about perspective Tammy.

Yeah but asking me about context is one thing. Asking me why I would have responded to Falcon's question the way I did would be asking me a question. Accusing me of victimization isn't asking that. It's immediately trying to paint my question and response in a particular light. It was a similar thing you did with the Mollie interaction. You didn't try to understand it; you tried to discredit it. That's not scumhunting or being proactive, that's discrediting and trying to create a rift that I think has been made obvious exists and that both of us are trying to work through and together in this game, so I don't understand why a town you would try to crater that.

I'm sorry from now on I will type out "Wow golly this seems like victimization to me! But I can't be sure. There might be context I'm missing, after all." and "Wow golly this seems like bullshit to me! But I can't be sure. I've never played with Tammy, after all."
I'm operating under the assumption that if one of my assumptions (lack of context wrt falcon, not having played with you wrt mollie) is wrong, someone will correct it. Am I wrong to assume so?

I didn't say that and I think you know I didn't say that. I think that if it's abundantly obvious that people have played together, and have because we've been referencing recently ended games as part of our discussions, that maybe there's context and not one of us is going to misrepresent our experiences purposefully because we're going to get called out on that. For instance, mollie and I arent' the only ones here who played in the game that wasn't pleasant for either of us, and falcon and I aren't the only ones who played together in the game where I got crap for not town reading him. Mollie even told you we were fighting before she even reached out to me and we started talking, so I'm not sure how you think it would be something that could possibly be made up that you would need my verification on when she talked about a pretty painful game that ended recently.

Me feeling like I could not win if I gave someone a town read or a scum read shouldn't not no not even a little fraction of a tiny bit scream victimization to you and for you to automatically jump to some weird ass conclusion of that sort. If it doesn't have place in this game, like I

obviously hadn't called him scum

so gee golly willickers couldn't reference here then maybe you should just ask where I'm coming from without trying to paint it with your fakeobrush. I'd have gladly told you *why* I was feeling like i couldn't call him town or scum if you had asked that but you didn't. You went oh geeze wow googley eyes this is victimization, and then you dare to act surprised as my offense. come now sleepy. you know what you were doing.

pedit: null does count, thank you for thinking I'm null.

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OH sleepy krew - what are your thoughts on Hoopla and Saint Kerrigan?

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I didn't say that and I think you know I didn't say that. I think that if it's abundantly obvious that people have played together, and have because we've been referencing recently ended games as part of our discussions, that maybe there's context and not one of us is going to misrepresent our experiences purposefully because we're going to get called out on that. For instance, mollie and I arent' the only ones here who played in the game that wasn't pleasant for either of us, and falcon and I aren't the only ones who played together in the game where I got crap for not town reading him. Mollie even told you we were fighting before she even reached out to me and we started talking, so I'm not sure how you think it would be something that could possibly be made up that you would need my verification on when she talked about a pretty painful game that ended recently.

I'm well aware that you two were fighting. I never said it was made up (where did I say it was made up?). I was specifically calling out mollie saying you agreeing not to fight as being game-relevant to her read of you because the fight was an out-of-game thing.

Why didn't you ask her to clarify *why* she was town reading me from our exchange? You said that you thought it was bullshit, and asked me for my thoughts. That's instigating. That's not trying to see either of our points of view.

Me feeling like I could not win if I gave someone a town read or a scum read shouldn't not no not even a little fraction of a tiny bit scream victimization to you and for you to automatically jump to some weird ass conclusion of that sort. If it doesn't have place in this game, like I obviously hadn't called him scum so gee golly willickers couldn't reference here then maybe you should just ask where I'm coming from without trying to paint it with your fakeobrush. I'd have gladly told you *why* I was feeling like i couldn't call him town or scum if you had asked that but you didn't. You went oh geeze wow googley eyes this is victimization, and then you dare to act surprised as my offense. come now sleepy. you know what you were doing.

You're not even trying to see this from my point of view, are you? Well, I already knew that. But now you're not even reading my explanations.

I totally am. You're just not owning up to what you originally did or seeing how I viewed what you originally did. I'm saying if you really thought the way you're claiming to think, you'd have gone about it differently. You don't look like trying to figure out my mind set, you look like trying to instigate shit.

null does count, thank you for thinking I'm null.

Any time! Except when you're being obvscum

Bring it! Make your case big boy.

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Who are your scum reads sleepy?

strongest are Juls, jason, and SAD

these are town reads of mine to various degrees.

Juls reaction today didn't soften your scum read at all?

why on jason and SAD?

Juls's reaction besides hydra stuff? Because hydra stuff is thoroughly alignment-irrelevant.
jason and SAD because of their scumpostings
As I've said I'm not gonna make a case when I don't think the lynch is viable

Of course I mean besides the hydra stuff.

I'm not asking you to make a case. I'm trying to see your mindset.

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I don't really like either of them. I'm waiting on Kerrigan's analysis post to see what that brings though. I really don't like Slandaar though. He lacks a certain cocky "I'm town" tone that I've seen from him, and him not really trying to figure out the game in any capacity is especially worrisome.

but I'm crashing myself, so hopefully both of them will do something by the time I wake up.

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I've been absorbed by a book all day, which I'm going to go back to until I sleep. Get back to this tomorrow.

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The lies of Locke lamora.

Pedit: I have enough posts that anyone should have a read on me by now. Surely you can do without me for a day.

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So I'm skimmed to catch up between sets at the gym because I am multitasker extraordinaire, but i'm sure I missed some so I'll go back and read some stuff in a bit when I have a minute.

A few things:

Falcoguru - I'd love to hear your thoughts on Jason now that you read The Wire. I also don't think we're dying tonight, there are enough people who have me as null or meh and pretending not to know how to read me that I doubt I'll die, unless they're just scared of nacho. I do hope we don't die tonight though because that would suck if we did before nacho got to even make a post Anyway, I'm expecting you guys to bite it.

Hoopla just feels so smarmy I don't know how people are town reading her. HOWEVER while running today I remembered this game that I followed last year sometime, it was either a mini-open or a mini-normal, can't remember which I'll try to look back at it, but anyway I followed that game and she went after CES, who I thought was really town, in a way that I thought was so slimy and that she was obviously scum from it, and then she died night one which just totally shocked me. So maybe she just looks scummy as all get out as town? I don't know just nothing she's said sounds genuine (sorry if you're town, but you don't.) She does feel a little different than Titus' Hard Boiled game, which I also followed and had her as scum really early, because her play was so super orchestrated looking. She didn't look smarmy there, but really really orchestrated. So, meh, IDK.

Saint Kerrigan - If you think I may be town or not town from that one post what do you think of my others? I definitely haven't made only ONE post and if you think it looks town because my scum team wouldn't "let" me post something like that, it's a terrible reason to think I might be town. I'd never ask a scum team for permission to make a post. I never plan stuff like that with scum partners. Look at the motivation? Does it serve a scum agenda or a town one? I'm surprised that's not where your answer lies.

Okay the IT'S A VT CLAIM SO IT'S DEFINITELY TOWN sentiment is extremely twitch inducing. Site meta has actually turned into scum claiming VT because people think that scum will claim a role to save themselves or to out a role, so a VT claim is looked at as a town claim and I'm surprised that it's going oh he claimed VT scum wouldn't do that, he must be town. I'm pretty sure 95% of the time I've been scum and claimed, I've claimed VT. I know a lot of people who do that, so. Not saying he's definitely not town, but I'm going to furrow my brow at the sentiment. Also, kinda twitchy at Hoopla over it because in the cross-town 2 game there was a discussion over this when Vi was run up to claim and held his claim because site meta THERE is to just lynch a VT but it's not something that is definite at MS. I mean you lynch VT claims in part because they've been suspected and because you don't want to run up a bunch of people to claim and have to out a bunch of power roles. Bleh. I tried metaing not_mafia though, and he's not easy lynchbait in every game. He has a bunch of newbie games and not a whole lot of experience playing as mafia, I think the only two I found were in newbie games where he didn't have a problem being aggressive. One of the things that worried me about that though was it was newbie, so he might not feel weird to be aggressive as scum in a newbie whereas in a large with players who have been playing awhile he could be intimidated.

I'm not feeling great about this shos lynch, but I do want to go back and look at the games that he and I were partnered in to get a sense of his tone. it's been a while since we've played.

I thought I had more. Be back in a bit.

pedit: ask and you shall receive. I'll review it in a minute.

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WAIT A SECOND WAIT A SECOND WAIT A SECOND.

I NEED TO THINK.

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No not crossfit sleepy!

Oh I remembered another thing that was bugging me. It's the outguessing the mod thing. I think that it looks Oversoul look pretty town for researching what Zach does and doesn't do. (Also, Zach had a cop in F-11, which was a micro last year? And in the other two games I played with him he had a vanilla cop and an FBI agent but not a straight up cop.) I typically find that these types of things can end up getting people lynched, ie ASoIaF when Thor got lynched after claiming miller because Faraday doesn't use millers even though I told them he does as he's used them offsite. In general I find these dangerous pursuits and it bugs me that Hoopla is encouraging it because in general it's just not a great idea.

Oh and in reading the case on Jason. I'll go back through his iso after I read up on shos, but in the Harry Potter game Jason was pretty convinced all game that Acosmist was scum based pretty much on his lurking and trolling.

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I'm sorry for registering my suspicion of you in that way. It wasn't nice.

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Jason - what do you think about the suspicion on you?

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The Wire had a town encryptor. Got lynched in lylo too because lolscumencryptor.

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I thought I had something insightful, but I'm not so sure it's insightful, so never mind.

I'm still leaning town on Jason though, and if he is town here I have a tell for him. :/ Falcoguru those reaction tests look different to me. The one to vifam was such obvious ohgoshdarn you ruined ffs whereas this one was more you butted in so now it's not going to be effective though to be fair it probably wouldn't have worked anyway. I'm starting to get worried I'm entering into my day one derail scum suspicion though which I learn day three was a big mistake.

I have no idea what to think of Shos though; he would have had to have been planning ahead of time to claim vengeful with his nero cain claim thing.

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Eh, kinda having second thoughts about shos. Like I expect him to be Vengeful here a lot of the time - that's a really creative fakeclaim if he's using Nero's super VT comment as a crumb. I suppose scum Vengefuls exist too, but yeah, expecting shos to flip town.

I don't think there's really enough time to get a town swarm to power an alternate lynch through who isn't not_mafia. I think both are town, but at least with a shos-lynch we get another flip going into N1.

Nero didn't actually leave that crumb. Shos changed Nero's "indefinite v/la" post.

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@ tammy

we arrived to the conclusion that hoopla is town. anti is still mad at her but she is probs town. but everything you said I said too you just use moar words.

I liked her response to me saying that it was town tell.

@ tammy

what do you now think of skrew?

I dunno. I keep going back and forth on him. I'm hoping Nacho will have some insight.

tammy

plz ask nacho about mastina and tell him he owes me after touhou. also I hate to tell you this but sad isn't town. plz don't make the same mistake you made with empire in asofai I put a lot of stock in your read in that game and outshouted what every fiber of my being was telling me.

jesus christ my dog is needy.

Arthur is not a read I won't revisit. I ignored a bunch of things with empire in asoiaf, but he played to me to manipulate me, I hopefully won't make that mistake again.

My cat's pretty needy today for some reason. :/

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Post 1458 actually feels pretty town. Not sure why you think it is a scumslip SleepyKrew.

He's trying to assert another player's towniness ahead of his own. There is never a case where someone is townier to a townie than themself, and very few where your read should be anywhere near that confident. Does this make sense? I'll try to see how to explain this better

There have been several games where I've thought other people were being townier than me. (Yes, me.)

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I advise watching nachomamma's hydra for scum as well, guys. I don't remember nachoscum being that way, and I remember nachotown being WAAAY more active. so it might be because of the hydra with Tammy, but still, even tammy's meta doesn't fit right, that slot may very well be scum

As I said in my second post, and more than once during the game, nacho has not made a single post and will not be here for this game day. He's v/la until tomorrow.

How much more active do you want this hydra to be anyway?

Also can you please clue me in to what you expect my meta to be? Everyone who's played with me has me town based on meta and you only have two games of experience with me and both of them were scum. Well I mean really just one. I replaced into American Revolution after you'd already been lynched, and then in Rocky Horror you were lynched day one as well. So, how does it not fit right cuz that statement is setting up alarm bells like mad.

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EBWOP: and both of those games were almost two years ago.

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jason I would really like to engage you in discussion about your scumslip so as to draw more attention to your scumslip

Then do, you have my attention, where is my 'scum slip'

This reminds me of the time I was scum and Faraday told me I scumslipped and I went looking for it or explaining it away. I hadn't scum slipped and he was just reaction testing me. I was able to talk my way out of it, sorta, he was scum on the other team so I don't think he was interested in getting rid of me at that point, but after the game it was pointed out that if I were town my reaction would have been that I couldn't have scum slipped because I was town.

However, this sounds a bit sarcastic so I'm all hrm.

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If you think I am scum, you really should shoot me. You've been shouting about it.

Sleepy is town. It would be a bad shot.

"You should shoot me instead of that guy."
A townie would not say this.

Why not?

~~~~~~

Also, my cat's not being needy, I just forgot to feed him

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Oh falcon I called you falcoguru cuz I'm talking to the falcon head of the something guru hydra.

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Post 1458 actually feels pretty town. Not sure why you think it is a scumslip SleepyKrew.

He's trying to assert another player's towniness ahead of his own. There is never a case where someone is townier to a townie than themself, and very few where your read should be anywhere near that confident. Does this make sense? I'll try to see how to explain this better

There have been several games where I've thought other people were being townier than me. (Yes, me.)

To the point of saying "shoot me not them"?

I have tried to get myself lynched if I thought it was in the best interest for town, if I thought my presence was a distraction, and if I thought that I wouldn't be able to turn around the suspicion on me.

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you [SleepyKrew] are also hinting that you are going to nk tammy cos you think that I am less well liked and you might be able to lynch us.

Could you quote the post(s) that make you believe this? I'm not seeing it. At all.

I am just going to go into a full meta read on skrew.

skrew likes to play scum. it is true! in games when he is town he gets bored and will either derp as a special or disappear altogether. he invested in this game and it makes me wonder why.

I thought this too, but then I went and reread On a Boat, and before he ended up replacing out (which made him obvtown) he was pretty active and pushing things. I then did a search for him as scum. It's been a pretty long time since he's played scum because he doesn't play that often! I can't remember what game that was now though, it was a mini I know that, but he and his partners ended up getting lynched in successive days. I got kinda tired of meta reading as I don't do it all that well and look for things on tone. I thought that his refusal to rethink Juls was something that made him more likely scum because often times scum have a hard time rethinking their reads. But in On a Boat, he stayed after ffery for a good long while, so :/

Also, I should probably get to that actual meta read, I got bored and stopped.

skrew's reaction to me reading tammy as town for the reasons I gave looked ever so wrong. his then turning on tammy looked even worse. his exchanges with tammy and that he didn't follow up looks weird from a global POV if you take in who he was going after at the time. to me it looked like he was working his way to a tammy conftown read but didn't quite go there and I said what I said at the time he was working his way to a tammy townread. I was trying to see what he would say if I insisted we were both town. he didn't really respond. I really wanted to discuss with tammy what her skrew read was/is but it isn't happening so far .

I thought it was weird his statement of mollie and tammy I'll deal with you tomorrow. To me the tone sounded like someone in control of the game, which I more associate with scum, especially people who prefer playing with scum. However, I don't have any ingame experience with sleepy, so I'm not sure.

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Saint Kerrigan - If you think I may be town or not town from that one post what do you think of my others? I definitely haven't made only ONE post and if you think it looks town because my scum team wouldn't "let" me post something like that, it's a terrible reason to think I might be town. I'd never ask a scum team for permission to make a post. I never plan stuff like that with scum partners. Look at the motivation? Does it serve a scum agenda or a town one? I'm surprised that's not where your answer lies.

Honestly, that one post is one of the only times I didn't feel a null read from you.

Also, if you read the scum topic of the game I posted (hint: there's daytalk) you'll better understand why I made the remark about scumteam not letting you make that post. Also also, I'm pretty sure derailing the Juls wagon was not serving a scum agenda.

Incidentally, this reply feels town, too.

I must be losing my obvtown mojo.

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That's not the one. I'll look for the one I was talking about.

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Oh I mean that's not the one I read. Sorry need to finish my sentences.

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Here's the game I "read" for Sleepy!scum hip hop mafia I'm pretty sure this is his most recent scum game.

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I agree SKrew's claim is p ew (2-shot commuter is a rly easy claim for scum) but I'm almost positive commuter only dodges night actions?

I've been a commuter that could commute during the day or night, not consecutively, but I could leave during the day, which affected all day actions even the lynch.

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The only thing that bothers me is his looking for the scum slip. The only thing that doesn't bother me is that suggesting multiball is considered a scum slip these days.

Bert idk

Also I just remembered I have an assignment due for a certification course. I'll try to get back in a bit.

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I'm not doing anything more as I'm tired and going to bed.

I also don't know what to do with my reads as Hoopla and Saint Kerrigan are both looking a bit more town to me and I was pretty sure they were scum. So.

I'll be up before deadline in the morning though, and I don't want to hammer in case anyone still wants to do anything.