Mafia with the Quickness 2 GAME OVER!
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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that would be nice actuallyIn post 20, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:do you want me to proxy my vote to you also????-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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I dunno. Feels like some weird setup shenanigans going on, so I'm inclined to leave the claims be, and work them out later.In post 194, Oversoul wrote:Hoopla, what do you make of Desp's encryptor claim and subsequent action.
I feel overwhelmed by this game already. Who is town? I'm basically willing to sheep someone and vote with them until I have any real opinions of my own. Someone speak up.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Town neighbouriser.In post 439, SleepyKrew wrote:When you say you believe Juls's claim, you believe she's a neighborizer or specifically a town neighborizer?-
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Hoopla
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I'm currently halfway through researching day role 1 claims in mini normals to see what roles get trueclaimed and fakeclaimed, and one aspect of this has been premature claims (my definition of premature is a claim before L-2, at least 48 hours or more before deadline, and not a role where there is merit in claiming straightup, ie; miller). So far, my results have been 4 premature scum roleclaims and 24 town premature roleclaims, which puts it at 86% town. From the games I've read, the general tone tends to match that of nervous town not realising the wagon on her isn't as serious as she perceives it to be.In post 522, Desperado wrote:why is slice scum and why don't scum claim prematurely/awkwardly? especially if they feel threatened and powerless (which juls has claimed in this topic)?-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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I didn't like their opening post.In post 619, Desperado wrote:so....why is slice of life scum and why are you sheeping juls now instead of voting your own scumread?
Gonna be honest, haven't had enough time to properly read everything that has happened, so I'm basically operating on tone-based gut reads. Juls is my only real town read, so I'm teaming up with her while I get more invested.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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it feels like a pretty obvious pattern from what i've seen. it is a general pattern across the site, not for juls specifically, but i barely know anybody i am playing with, so essentially i will mostly be using generalised tells.In post 627, Desperado wrote:not really. i'd be more convinced if you had information on what juls does with claims as town and scum. do you think you've assembled a representative sample that should be convincing?
you and helium and whoever else don't know how i play either, so you'll have to be resorting to generalised tells too based on the other patterns you've seen. this shouldn't really discredit my belief about juls, because if it does, it essentially discredits anything else that isn't player specific.-
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Hoopla
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i'm not. i'm just trying to work my way into the game. it's too big atm, so i'm sorta just clinging to what i believe the most and am gonna work my way from there.In post 633, Juls wrote:Hoopla, I'm likely not neighborizing you if that's what you are trying to do-
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Hoopla
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Oversoul is town for trying to defend himself with self-meta - he knows better not to do that as scum, and I think him trying to sleaze Juls into neighbourizing him for :town reasons: is unnecessarily overt, that I feel like he must have a reason for it. That's such an arbitrary and unnecessary play for scum, ergo it's probably town with some sort of purpose.
I believe Perpetual Nonsense's miller claim also. There is obviously some weirdness and creativity going on in this setup, and miller is a stereotypically sneaky mod role (bonus if there is no Cop too), and it's not like PN was claiming this once it was known the setup appears kinda goofy - he was first to claim, which points to truthfulness, as opposed to scum fakeclaiming and getting lucky that the role appears to fit setup-speculation-wise.
Desperado's claim happened straight after PN's. I don't doubt that this is his role. It looks like a fairly lucid, snap decision on Desp's part, most because it appears like he's claiming in reaction to the miller claim. In general, quicker decisions like that tend to be more town, as scum will generally take more time to calculate. Desp seems like the sort of player audacious enough to claim Encryptor as scum though, but that might just be unnecessarily paranoid. I lean townish on it.-
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Hoopla
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I agree with this post also. Feu is highly likely to be town too. I believe both the Neighbourizers are town.In post 353, Oversoul wrote:Using the neighbor chat as their own hydra qt is pretty town.-
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Hoopla
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i find those reads tend to be the most reliable for me early in the game. it's the one thing i'm pretty good at.In post 744, Imperium wrote:Hoopla - Why are all your reads so far based mostly on claims? It's 30 pages in, you don't have any reads based on play?-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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explain?
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Hoopla
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Well, I am currently 15 pages adrift and have at multiple times including now, feel like I have overextended myself and can't keep up with some of the players in the game. For me, I sympathise with Juls' ire with the hydras, although my complaint is more along the lines of having 26 players crammed into 19 slots, which is just adding volume to the game, and not the good kind of volume, because like Juls' talks about, it is schizophrenic and hard to approach. I'm not saying it's anyone's fault for all this, though. I knew there were hydras playing in the game and I knew it'd be a challenging game for me, as I am used to smaller games where it's possible to get a read on everyone and work the game out via PoE - that is my modus operandi. I lack confidence in developing behavioural reads (especially on players I barely know) to the point where I feel dishonest when I express reads based on a gut reaction to their behaviour because I know how easy it is to be wrong about someone when you view them in isolation. I am used to seeing gamestates as a whole, and solving it that way - it's the only way I've really ever been a successful player as town, and obviously, I cannot do it in a game this large.In post 1174, helium-3 wrote:you plan on sheeping people who are screaming about being short on time?
those are the scumbags.
also, you explain. explain.... anything.
I am trying to start though, and have several solid town reads. Someone was lamenting my reads were mostly based on the claims, and I'm aware of that - those are one aspect of the game where I am good at reading the situation and setup and seeing if it makes sense. The reason I am so willing to sheep someone I trust is because I actually feel like this will forward the game. For an advertised "quick" game, it actually hasn't been very quick. Few people have made efforts to progress the game forward - few people are compromising and trying to build new wagons, and we haven't even got anyone close to being lynched. The majority of people aren't trying to further the game - they are using the theme as a license to spam without remorse. It is fine for people who keep up with it, because they are improving their reads by participating in the process, but there are always going to be people left behind and this will essentially be the lynch pool. In a game this size, I am extremely skeptical about town's ability to make meaningful choices early in the game, to the point where utility lynching is probably optimal to make future days more efficient.
I don't really know what the point of this post is, because I know you'll construe it as whining since it doesn't comply with your mantra about how you play the game, but I feel like at least talking and trying to interact with people more will help bring me back into the game, or at least help you guys read me more. This is where I'm at mentally. Perfectly willing to sheep and compromise with anyone trustworthy, because it looks like the game is going around in circles... giant, giant circles. We need more sheep, because not everyone can be a leader.-
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Hoopla
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you should know by now we have very opposite approaches to the game.In post 1183, helium-3 wrote:haha
you're pretty quick on the uptake
rough reads (even an incomplete or short list) would be a good place to start
TOWNIES/WOULD CONSIDER SHEEPING WITH:
Juls
Oversoul
Perpetual Nonsense
Feu Et Vol
Sugoku Sugoi
Desp
TOWNIE BUT WON'T FOLLOW
Speedy Saki (obnoxious trolling that scum don't do as often as bored town)
MEH
Slice of Life
Imperium
SleepyKrew
DUNNO
Not_Mafia
Helium
SaintKerrigan
Ser Arthur Dayne
JasonT
Slandaar
Shos
basically willing to follow my town reads onto the dunno pile, and would consider my meh pile afterwards. as such...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: SaintKerrigan-
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Hoopla
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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5951504In post 1195, helium-3 wrote:so who are those townreads and why are you not sheeping them yet (or are you?)-
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Hoopla
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then you ought to understand where i coming from then.In post 1197, helium-3 wrote:so far you are saying that you poe things out which is what do so I am not seeing the opposition.
because i don't have a town read on you.In post 1197, helium-3 wrote:lol, why are we in your dunno pile-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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i'm not opposed to self-meta defenses, so i'll give you a more crystal one. hoopla is rarely apathetic as scum, but it strikes fairly regularly as town.In post 1203, Perpetual Nonsense wrote:We agree that shos is scum and would like him killed!
"you overestimate me" is underwhelming self-meta defenseIn post 1201, Hoopla wrote:you give me too much credit, oversoul. i am good in games where the conditions suit me.-
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Hoopla
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hence we are different players. i'm perfectly willing to sheep when the game needs people sheeping. you can criticise me for me, but i'm probably not going to change until the game is smaller/there is more meaningful information in the game, like flips and role claims.In post 1207, helium-3 wrote:the difference between us poeing things out is that we are totally getting our hands dirty and formulating reads and readjusting as more info is garnered.
you have not done or are doing any of this. instead you are looking for easy wagons to sheep.
you probably spam and play this way as scum, so i don't think you "getting your hands dirty" is meaningful AT ALL in regards to your alignment. as such, i have you in the dunno pile.In post 1207, helium-3 wrote:why not?-
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Hoopla
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how so?In post 1211, Perpetual Nonsense wrote:You seemed apathetic in that Titus game! *squints*
Would anyone like a glass of pineapple juice?-
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Hoopla
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most posts in the game again says no.In post 1213, helium-3 wrote:haha, actually neither of us do
we're expected to have some meta knowledge on you, but you apparently don't have any on us. why is that?
i am perfectly willing to say when i am lost or don't know, but for you it is not good enough - that is how i feel about you and your play but you won't take that as an answer. your signal:noise ratio is off the charts so i don't know what to consider valuable with regards to reading you. whereas you seem to be pretty confident about everything, ergo i expect you to understand me more than i do you.-
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Hoopla
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i gave em babe. if u don't like it maybe u can bite me too xoxoIn post 1217, helium-3 wrote:if hoopla's getting "annoyed" she can bite me. asking for reads and scrutinizing said reads in a mafia game is not an unreasonable or outrageous request at all.-
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Hoopla
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i'm not annoyed. i would say their posts have more of a numbing effect on me.In post 1220, Juls wrote:It's the way you're doing it. I don't know if you are annoying her but you're annoying me for certain.
helium is just upset because i am not choosing to play the game the way they do.-
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Hoopla
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my readslist is basically the same as what it is has been since i was last online. it's because nothing has happened. you like to believe there is, because you believe you are making meaningful and insightful plays and are asking good questions, but i am pretty sure everything you believe now will go out the window by say day 3 or so when we actual information in the game like flips, a bunch of wagons and good role info. the majority of people's reads at this stage are coming from aesthetics and clashes of playstyle, in my opinion, which essentially makes d1 pseudo-utility/policy lynching.In post 1226, helium-3 wrote:the best way to play as town is to move town in while simultaneously move scum out. we do this through interaction.
we are actively doing this but hoopla isn't altho she says this is how she plays. do you see the difference? she only just now put out a readslist under duress only from us.
today has just been an exercise in arguing for the sake of arguing. the result of all your bluster is a vote on sleepykrew a day and a bit out from deadline who few people suspect and who probably won't be lynched today. how does it feel to know that my play is currently furthering the game more than you?-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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you get your reads at the expense of annoying a bunch of people and putting others into permanent catch-up mode. it's selfish play, in my opinion.In post 1232, helium-3 wrote:knock all you want, but flips are meaningless without discussion beforehand. and this ...what did you call it? ... "bluster" is how i get my reads.
hoopla, how heavily would you say you use meta when formulating reads?
i use meta if i know the player fairly well.-
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Hoopla
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throw in slandaar, nobody special and slice of life is back 12 pages now. Feu has posted once in the last 12 pages + sugoku. others have been behind at different times. dunno why we're debating this though.In post 1234, helium-3 wrote:there are single users who aren't very far behind us in terms of post count, and the only people in "catch up mode" are you and SaintKerrigan, as far as i know.
shos replaced in yesterday and he seems to be catching up without much trouble or complaint so you really think there are a lot of malcontents out there?
the only thing really annoying to me in this game is this passive-aggressive shaming, in my opinion.
my main point is you're not actually furthering the game. i can guarantee you right now, what is going to happen is there'll be a mad scramble five hours from deadline, and we won't have to time to assess the claim/interrogate them about it (an actual meaningful thing that could happen on D1), watch the fallout onto other wagons if need be (another meaningful thing that could happen D1) and make good decisions based on that info. almost 50% of D1's in mini normals are decided in the dying hours of deadline because nobody is willing to compromise before it's too late. that pattern replays itself over and over again because people are unnecessarily invested in their own reads (which are basically arbitrary anyway on D1) and won't compromise. learn to follow from time to time.-
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Hoopla
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i'm not being passive-aggressive. i'm outright telling you your playstyle is bad/anti-town.In post 1234, helium-3 wrote:the only thing really annoying to me in this game is this passive-aggressive shaming, in my opinion.-
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Hoopla
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it's not a black and white thing, like aha, i've finally read five games of beastcharizard to know how they play now. you'll usually just have a vague understanding of the type of player they are, then you notice more patterns the more you play with them.In post 1242, Feu et Vol wrote:Hoopla, how many games do you have to play with a person until you feel you are familiar with them enough to use meta? Would you say you could Meta me?
-Beast-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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i am pro-utility lynching and policy lynching (sometimes).In post 1250, helium-3 wrote:are you 1 to think that d1 is best if chaff is cut from the hull?
cos in that we may be opposite.
also there are a bunch of questions that you didn't answer in my previous posts.
and its because they were probably irrelevant.
i've made solid stances on things i've deemed meaningful like the claims. when we have another claim today i'll comment on that, or on any of the big wagons (if they ever happen). i'll scumhunt once we have flips and connections instead of the inane waffling that has taken place so far. until then i'm in sheep-mode, sorry.In post 1250, helium-3 wrote:what I don't understand is you seem to be giving up scumhunting no matter what; according to you there is no good way to handle d1. except that you seem to think that a dl/ut/pl is probs for the best but then you condemn that line of thinking cos you seem to think it will happen anyway cos every1 will jump on and rush decide. like I am seriously not getting it.-
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Hoopla
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maybe if the game wasn't so bloated you'd remember me talking about all my town reads. because i have.In post 1256, helium-3 wrote:the only claim you have said you believe in so far (mebbe I missed it) was in julz neighborhood claim.
there is the marquis claim (did you comment on this wait aren't they in your dunno category and desp whom you are sheeping the read is in your townpile cos you are "sheeping your townreads!" who was supporting us).
so mebbe you could revisit the stances that you supposedly have?-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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good posting!In post 1278, Sugoku Sugoi wrote:Juls's posting has felt insanely town especially the posts where she considered replacing out and wanted to spare her replacement the trouble of choosing who to neighborize. I have a hard time seeing her fake it to such a level.
good posting!!!In post 1280, SleepyKrew wrote:Ummm I'm not pushing your lynch atm because I know it's not viable... which is the whole point... whereas helium is voting and not even trying to push the lynch they're voting
Like did you even try to read what you were quoting?-
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Hoopla
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how many setups has he run? he's probably never used two neighbourisers in a game either if that's your logic.In post 1284, Oversoul wrote:Hoopla let's talk about Nonsense
What do you make of their claim and subsequent play despite Zach never using a Miller in his setups before (and publicly disliking the cop role)?-
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Hoopla
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marquis lil buddy, you need to get your vote off julz and put it on a big wagon.In post 1288, Feu et Vol wrote:also if anyone tries to say my feelings toward this game / my reads, even, are invalidated by me admitting to being in a bad mood today, it would be more productive if you selfvoted instead
-marquis-
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Hoopla
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I agree with this.In post 1295, Juls wrote:Where does he publicly dislike the role?That's more damning than never using it.Do you have a link for that discussion?
I also believe that a hydra might be less likely than a single-slot player to fakeclaim D1 as scum as it requires both players to believe it's a smart idea. I don't really know either player though or if they have a history of creative plays, so someone else might be able to comment there if they have more knowledge.
I feel like it's a claim that can be worked out deeper in the game when the vibe of roles flipped start showing up. For example, if we actually do have a Cop, then I'm way more likely to believe it (especially since Zach hates Cops apparently).-
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Hoopla
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good stuff.In post 1317, Oversoul wrote:Here is Zach supporting millers despite no cops.
I may have misspoke when I said Zach hates cops. He has used one in one of his games and this was more outdated than I thought (and addressing sanities). Link.
that is reinforcing my liking of the miller claim.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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I believe Not_Mafia's VT claim, by the way. It's pretty much the exact template I look for in a truthful D1 VT claim.
Fun stat: In the last 60 Mini Normals there have been 47 D1 Vanilla Townie claims. 4 have been mafia, 43 have been town.
Site meta at the moment is clearly trending away from scum going for a VT fakeclaim early in the game - they almost always claim a PR when they want to protect themselves. It's pretty much the standard play for any player with a couple of months or more experience. The standard town play iin response is (generally) to lynch that player because theoretically their claim shouldn't change anything. But it actually does. I would like to make a non-standard play and not lynch the VT claim. We have an opportunity to play one step ahead of site meta, because I am sure I am the only one who knows how lopsided these stats are at the moment, so this isn't a case of scum trying to wifom angle (occam's razor: it's much more likely his play is just like everyone else's who claimed VT D1).
This is probably unorthodox reasoning to not lynch someone, but it seems like a great idea to me. Vote shos.-
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Hoopla
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Apologetic about his play, acknowledges he was rubbish. Doesn't claim a good role. He clearly doesn't expect to live.In post 1342, Not_Mafia wrote:Okay, Skrew is probably right there, so because of my role and the chance of me being an NK is very low anyway, claim VT. Sorry for my rubbish/non-existent play this game, but a bulk of the thread has been egos butting heads and personal disputes and I've found it hard to generate any content in this
Even though his reads are wishy-washy, he still does drop a reads list too. These are all hallmarks of a true VT claim.-
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Hoopla
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It's something I've been researching independent of this game, and this is the first opportunity I've had to share them.In post 1372, Sugoku Sugoi wrote:I do wonder though why Hoopla decided to look at the stats at this particular point. What was the thought process that led you decide "okay, N_M claimed VT, let me go find all the D1 claims and figure out how many are scum?"-
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Hoopla
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I better be right then!!In post 1374, Juls wrote:
This should not be forgotten in the event of a hoopla/not_mafia scum flip.In post 1372, Sugoku Sugoi wrote:I am not entriely sold on this and the paranoid part of me makes me think Hoopla told him to claim VT in their scum QT with daytalk.-
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Hoopla
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shos is a fine lynch. now isn't the time for ambitious side-projects.In post 1380, helium-3 wrote:DO WE HAVE THE NUMBERS TO SPEEDLYNCH MASTINA-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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